Being Single / Dating and your Mental Health with Trish Murray – Ep105

Show Description: Join us in welcoming Trish Murray to the show to talk about being single.  Trish has never been married and talks about her experience with being single and how it’s changed over the years.

Being a therapist herself she talks about EFT, how she manages emotions, her friends and family, and options for having children for singles.

Tune into this episode to see “Being Single” Through a Therapist’s Eyes!

Guest Link: http://crossbridgenc.com/

Episode #105 Transcription

Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Welcome to another edition of Through a Therapist’s Eyes. I am Chris Gazdik. He is Craig Graves. I am a mental health and substance abuse therapist. And he is an Unbeatable Mind life coach, right? Craig.

Craig Graves: [00:00:31] That’s correct.

Chris Gazdik: [00:00:32] I have a book coming out soon, Rediscovering Emotions and Becoming Your Best Self. And right now live and in a person you can become a unbeatable live, live coach for people on wininyourmind.com is that right?

Craig Graves: [00:00:45] And unbeatable live coach. We have to definitely start recording this pre

Chris Gazdik: [00:00:49] no man, an unbeatable mind live life coach. Okay. I said,

Craig Graves: [00:00:54] yeah. Yeah, well, that’s right, whatever

Chris Gazdik: [00:00:59] See the world, through the lens of a therapist and a coach being aware, this is not the delivery of therapy services in any way, checking out the website throughatherapistseyes.com. You can get full show transcriptions. You got categories that you can check out shows that are important to you. all grouped together.

Mr. Neil Robinson, whom you got to hear live last week. That was kind of fun, mr. Robinson, to have you on the show with us last week. I imagine he’s well actually he’s still here. He’s not in his normal sitting spots in the studio today. More on why in a minute, but Mr. Graves, this is the human emotional experience.

Shall we figure this thing out together? Says you let’s do it. All right. So we got a guest man, and this is kind of fun. We haven’t had as many live guests cause you know why. It’s like a pandemic or something going on. Still. I heard something

Craig Graves: [00:01:48] about that. It’s still, it’s still going on.

Chris Gazdik: [00:01:51] Oh, we got somebody live.

It’s so fun.

Craig Graves: [00:01:53] It could be over by the time this show comes out. When does the show come on?

Chris Gazdik: [00:01:55] That’s true. Ah, get your point. Go ahead. Explain your smart allecky point

Craig Graves: [00:02:00] The election over yet.

Chris Gazdik: [00:02:01] It is. Yes, I

Craig Graves: [00:02:02] figured one way or the other is going to be different.

Chris Gazdik: [00:02:05] So the pandemic is over celebrate. Yay. That’s awesome. let me tell you, we have Ms. Trish Murray with us. Ma’am welcome to Through a Therapist’s eyes. She is Craig listen. she is a currently in private practice. She is a former director of the student health and counseling center at Davidson College. There’s the best point of this introduction. You’re going to know what it is here in a second, man.

She has a PhD in counsellor education and supervision. She has a master’s degree in counseling and she’s been a therapist for over 25 years. She’s got me beat, man. She got me beat. She’d been doing this for a long time. Working with adolescents, couples, trauma issues, anxiety, depression, transitions, grief, trauma, and you know, the best part of this introduction.

What’s that dude, man. Yeah. Master’s degree from West Virginia University, baby. Got a good joke later. Oh God. Oh, wait a minute. You brought it up. We haven’t heard it for a little while. Listen, you’re going to love this joke.

Craig Graves: [00:03:10] Oh, our audience is going to quit listening to us. They

Chris Gazdik: [00:03:12] really are. Man.

Craig Graves: [00:03:13] Every time West virginia  comes up, I tell this stupid joke.

Trish Murray: [00:03:17] I hear it now.

Craig Graves: [00:03:18] How do we know that the toothbrush was invented in West Virginia.

Trish Murray: [00:03:24] I don’t know

Chris Gazdik: [00:03:25] why they’re going to stop listening to the show.

Craig Graves: [00:03:27] Otherwise It would be the teeth brush

Chris Gazdik: [00:03:29] because it’s a stupid joke. That’s why you’re going to stop listening to it. Not because they’ve heard it many times over you tell it all the time.

It’s the only West Virginia joke, you know, and I told you I’m gonna start belittling  anywhere. And you bring this joke up.

Craig Graves: [00:03:39] Chris, Chris hates it.

Chris Gazdik: [00:03:41] That’s why I tell him. Exactly. So what are we talking about today? We are talking about being single and, well, I don’t know how much we’ll talk about dating actually, but I thought I might try to pull that in a little bit.

you know, being single and dating, in your mental health with Trish Murray is what we’re talking about. Craig, let me tell him why we’re talking about this shall we.

Trish Murray: [00:04:00] That would be fantastic.

Chris Gazdik: [00:04:03] Is that a good way to start?

Trish Murray: [00:04:05] Because I don’t want to have to shame you.

Chris Gazdik: [00:04:07] I will shame myself, but before I do, did we miss anything?

Is that a good introduction? what, what do you do? What did I miss. Tell us a little bit about where you come from and whatnot. And we got technology blowing up on us right now with Mr. Graves phone. Wait, what did we miss? What did we get and who is Trish Murray.

Trish Murray: [00:04:24] Well, the one thing I think you did miss. Is that I am from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and a diehard Steeler fan

Chris Gazdik: [00:04:30] This is why we made a connection, Greg.

Trish Murray: [00:04:33] Yes, that’s exactly correct. So not just the WVU, but the Pittsburgh Steelers who are currently five and O and are going to rock it out this season.

Chris Gazdik: [00:04:41] So exactly.

Trish Murray: [00:04:43] Yeah. And Ben still, he can still hold on. Exactly. It’s all good. That was the only thing you missed, which is vitally important.

Chris Gazdik: [00:04:52] What is wrong with me?

Craig Graves: [00:04:55] This is a football team.

Trish Murray: [00:05:01] There was a distraction somewhere. I’m not sure what it was, but go ahead. No, I don’t think you missed anything. I have, been a therapist for a long time, and absolutely love my work and enjoy what I do. And, yeah. And I have dogs. I’m my dog collector. That is another big thing.

Chris Gazdik: [00:05:17] Collector. You gotta tell me what a dog collector is.

Trish Murray: [00:05:20] Well, I had about, well, I have not about, I’ve had 16 dogs, since I’ve lived in my home in Belmont and they just seem to find me and I, 16, 16. Wow. That’s wow.

Craig Graves: [00:05:34] And they all found you

Trish Murray: [00:05:36] Pretty much. My, except my very first one when I got her, but since then they have been strays that have wandered to my home and I have kept them.

And I have found many homes, but I have kept many more. So currently I have three, two, two labs and a little. Beagle mix.

Chris Gazdik: [00:05:56] Good, because mom, I love you, mom. She didn’t listen to show, but I still love her and I’m not gonna say it in the world. Anyway. She loves cats and there’s like a rule. Like I am on her case and I got my stepdad on board.

Like we will not let her have more than three cats because Craig, you know, she’s going to become the cat lady if she does that. Right. I’m so anxious about this. Can

Trish Murray: [00:06:13] I agree with you because I would be anxious about that too. And I want to say this. I, you said you were going to reference dating later, so I will say this about that, that, I was on a dating site.

And I did make note that if you are a cat man, do not contact me because I don’t date cat men.

Chris Gazdik: [00:06:31] Wow. That’s on your site. Yes, that’s hysterical.

Trish Murray: [00:06:35] Yeah.

Chris Gazdik: [00:06:36] That’s funny.

Trish Murray: [00:06:36] And there, because there’s something inherently different. About a cat man than a dog man and a dog man, you can have a cat, but the dog has to be the primary animal in the home, followed by the cat.

Chris Gazdik: [00:06:45] Okay. To hell talking about date, we got to figure out what a dog man is and a cat man is and what the difference is and how you see this let’s go. What is this?

Trish Murray: [00:06:54] Yeah, dog men. There’s just something inherently different Catman. well, cats are more independent animals and. Cat. Well, you know, your mom’s a cat lady and what not.

Chris Gazdik: [00:07:04] She is not a cat lady. No,

Trish Murray: [00:07:07] she’s close there too. But, dog dogs are just dogs. They need you cats really don’t cats will sort of flip their tail at you. as they walk by, dogs are great company. They’re great. companions, cats. I mean, if they had a middle paw they’d flip you. Yeah.

Chris Gazdik: [00:07:30] How do you see yourself, man? Are you a dog guy or are you not a cat guy? You never seen any nor talk about cats, but what will you, you know, the issues we’ve got with your dog? I’m not

Craig Graves: [00:07:37] a cat guy, right?

Chris Gazdik: [00:07:39] Cats. Can we call you a dog guy?

Craig Graves: [00:07:42] I think so, probably you sure? Yeah. Yeah. My, my kids have a malti poo that goes back and forth.

I’ve grown to love Lily man. Okay. He’s part of the family

Chris Gazdik: [00:07:52] he’s being politically correct? Trish .

Trish Murray: [00:07:55] They are part of the family.

Chris Gazdik: [00:07:57] Absolutely. Do you have a dog? Oh yeah. I bought what we’ve often had dogs I have right now. We’ve got a Shih Tzu. Pure Shih Tzu in a, Malti and Yorkie mix. I love them both.

absolutely. But I do. I must say, I do think it’s actually cool to have a dog cat combination. I don’t know where that puts me probably schizophrenia, but that’s okay. Let’s let’s move on. So, Craig, what happened was the Genesis of the show was fairly recent and it picked up actually it kind of cool.

in combination of the recent shows we did on marriage and expectations and, you know, the EFT, the stuff that we kind of hit back and forth and stuff. So it was interesting because I was just, I talked to Trish from time to time. I’ve known her for years. She, a long time we’ve known each other, I guess, in and around the way.

And, You know, she had just called me and we were chatting and we were talking, I forget even how this came up, Trish, but, yeah man, I, we were talking about, and I think she revealed for the first time. I don’t think I knew that actually prior to that, you’d always been a single, if that, I don’t think I knew that actually.

And so we were just, just talking and she mentioned somebody else, a friend of hers or whatever, and I made the comment. Oh, terrible comment. And I do apologize Trish directly for you now. I’m like, what’s wrong with you guys? And she just stopped. Mean, she’s like, that’s the point Chris and I’m like, well, I’m just messing with you and talking, we’re hanging out what?

And she’s like, no, seriously. And then I’m like, Oh, okay, we’re in it. Wait a minute. And then my head’s going and out. I’m thinking like she took to take, you know, just talking and I’m like, wow, this is an important topic that people do not realize how. what they can do. And what I did to her in that conversation was absolutely tearing tear, just being small talky, but a stumbling upon a real issue.

And that’s why we decided it need to be on the show. Cause it’s, it’s a really important thing. So yeah, I was an idiot wasn’t I,

Trish Murray: [00:09:45] well, I don’t want to go so far as to say that. but, yeah, it was just something that you walked in on and it just so happens and that is often what I have experienced and that there can be a lot of shame around being single, and versus just embracing it.

And, but the idea of what’s wrong with you is what comes up and, you know, having my friend who got married first marriage, and he is later in life, And when you made that comments about that’s so odd or bizarre, and I expressed that I have not been married to your point. You said you were surprised by that, but

Chris Gazdik: [00:10:24] I don’t think I, yeah, I was pretty sure.

I didn’t know that ever. Yeah.

Trish Murray: [00:10:27] So, so I mean, I was really appreciative that you offered me the opportunity to even come here to speak about it. I’m not coming from a clinical perspective by any stretch. I mean, I could in, in some parts, not going to. like a tremendous amount of research about it.

I mean, I live it

Chris Gazdik: [00:10:42] right. The best research you can have. I’ll tell you that by far.

Trish Murray: [00:10:46] So, but yeah, so thank you for just, you know, bringing me here.

Chris Gazdik: [00:10:50] Yeah, absolutely. Trish, I mean, it, is cool. No, thank you. I mean, I’m not doing anything, but. But I’m being honored by your presence and being grateful for your willingness to share and talk about such a difficult thing quite possibly to talk about because of all the shame and the weird things that can be wrapped around this issue.

It’s not something that we addressed yet. We have wanted to do some dating stuff. We haven’t done a whole lot of that, and I’m not sure listening audience. How much we’ll get to, you know, dating and whatnot. I think our focus is going to be more, you know, just actually actively being single and what that experience can be like.

because boy, is it fair to say there, there really is. There’s a lot of emotion involved in that people might not even realize or think about when they’re talking to their buddies or their colleagues or coworkers or neighbors that have never been married.

Trish Murray: [00:11:36] yeah, I guess again, speaking for myself, I, I think there’s truth in that. and again, it’s not all how to want to paint this as all a bleak thing. It’s I’m sorry.

Chris Gazdik: [00:11:44] There’s a lot of beauty in it.

Trish Murray: [00:11:45] Yeah. I mean, I enjoy my singleness. I, I absolutely do. and you know, I do have freedoms that people who are married don’t have, And, you know, but there’s always the flip side of, you know, people often talk about the grass is always greener until you get there.

and it’s grass

Chris Gazdik: [00:12:04] sometimes mud.

Trish Murray: [00:12:05] It can be, but, yeah, so again, I don’t want to paint it as a bleak thing cause it’s can be it’s it’s a blessing in many ways. The freedoms that I’m afforded.

Chris Gazdik: [00:12:14] Yeah. You know, I think honestly, in a lot of ways, it’s, it’s not, you know, we like to categorize things as good or bad, This is bad.

Don’t do that. This is good. So go do that. It’s like, yeah, that’s not the way emotion really runs. I find right. It’s, it’s much more of what you’re experiencing at any given time. You know, the last show we talked about a lot of the, the anxieties and the energy and the tensions that people have around our country at such time as the election that now Craig, it’s over, it’s over.

Can you believe that it’s over?

Craig Graves: [00:12:43] Well, again, we don’t know that it could be contested or God knows what’s happening.

Chris Gazdik: [00:12:49] Oh dear God. That’s true. And it’s never going to end.

My point is it’s an experience. It’s what you’re experiencing at any given time. And people can have, you know, you could have two people in a room.

You know, one person’s terrified at what just happened and the other person’s just totally chill and peaceful and not know once you’re upset. Right. It’s an experience. And also by the way, as, you know, as, as what we do in our clinical work, that experience has changes from moment to moment, day to day. But you know, like it’s constantly moving, isn’t it?

Trish Murray: [00:13:24] Oh, absolutely.

Chris Gazdik: [00:13:26] Which is some of what we’ll talk about today. I think, you know, in, in, in different stages of life, you know what this is like, you know, singleness, when you’re young, we’ll talk a little bit about singleness when you’re old, we’ll talking about singleness after a divorce singleness after your second divorce.

What about singing’s after your third divorce, aren’t all three of those quite likely, possibly different, right? In the way that you might experience it, certainly in the course of your life cycle. So it’s an experience-based thing is one of the big points that I wanted to make.

Trish Murray: [00:13:54] Yeah. And I think that I can’t speak to the being single after your first, second or third divorce, but I can speak of being single at different stages of my life, from when I was, younger as compared to now as I’m older and I won’t reference the age I am, but as to old, I am older.

Chris Gazdik: [00:14:10] That’s all we need. We will not talk about it either. I’ve gotten to where I don’t even like age jokes, awful,

Trish Murray: [00:14:16] but I will say that I, I. I didn’t foresee myself being single.

Chris Gazdik: [00:14:22] Oh really?

Trish Murray: [00:14:22] Yeah. It wasn’t

Chris Gazdik: [00:14:24] something that reality

Trish Murray: [00:14:25] plan to be single. I, I guess I thought I would have been married. And so some of that there is with respect to that, I guess, is, is grieving.

Some of something that I thought would have happened, not to say that it can’t happen from this point forward, but suggesting that something that I, what can’t happen now is too. Like have a family of my own. Yeah. Because I’m beyond that. But, and again, it’s, it’s grieving some loss and embracing what is,

Chris Gazdik: [00:14:59] let’s pause there since you’re there.

And, I know we got a friendly net hanging around here. Don’t we, you know, let, let’s stay there and park for a second. cause Greg. I’m curious, he, he, he kind of comes cold a lot of times, Trisha in, in, in, in the way that we do the shows and he kind of samples what might be, you know, listening, audience, listening and stuff.

Does that sound strange to you that you would grieve, you know, something that didn’t happen that you thought would happen? Like no.

Craig Graves: [00:15:26] Does that sound weird? Does not good.

Chris Gazdik: [00:15:29] Yeah, because I, because I wondered if the listening audience out there would listen to that and I wanted to stay there for a minute because a, a lot of times people think just to grief and it looks so much, so you grow new grieve and then, you know, you get through it.

But, but you grieve a lot of things in our experience again, in life, right? Like, you know, I grieved when I left West Virginia, it was weird. And for me, I had lived there all my life. I left the state came down as crazy. He’s called North Carolina. I’m like, what is going on here? And I went through a process, man, and it put me on the floor for a little while.

Yeah. I was also grieving the loss of being single. Yes. I said that because we got married, we got graduated, left. The state went to a whole new state. I mean, I was grieving like a few things all at once and it was, I was supposed to be a happy time. Right. Grief hits you in weird ways. And at different times you just don’t expect it.

So. Yeah. Grieving what you thought would be that isn’t, that’s part of the experience

Trish Murray: [00:16:22] that, well, that was my experience. Yes, it’s is grieving that and I’ve heard other single speak to that. And I also heard from my married friends, similar to what you just said is grieving their singleness after they crossed the threshold of marriage.

So, I mean, not immediately, but you know, after settling in for a minute thing, they miss what.

Chris Gazdik: [00:16:44] Oh, God Craig it the day after that, I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. Nobody call my wife. Nobody like come out to stop as a joke. We got jokes. No. So let’s, let’s, let’s dial in a little bit to, you know, the periods that we maybe want to think about that are very different and a want to.

And I guess you’re going to kind of speak to some of these as your own experience, which is not in some of these, but I think I want to pull our, our, our conversation together for a lot of the people that are in our listening audience. And then you can imagine with all the clients that you’ve worked with over the years and, you know, kind of how that looks and what they experienced from a clinical perspective, kind of as well.

Right. Because we need to think about how it’s. It’s different dating young before you ever got married and young, I’m going to say now is kind of, you know, before the age of 30, you know, people are waiting a lot longer time. We’ve talked about it on the show before Craig to get married in the first place.

So young and dating is kind of 30 and before, and then it’s a different period, you know, after your first divorce and then second and then multiple divorces. And then as Trish, your experience has been, you know, never having been married. and being in an older age category. And again, I’m just going to say that as being kind of old, 30 and older, and I guess we can actually say, is it different between the mid life never been married and maybe, you know, 55 to 75 and never having been married and what that experience would be like?

I didn’t think about that though right now.

Trish Murray: [00:18:06] Yeah. I don’t know the answer to that

Chris Gazdik: [00:18:09] because we’re not there to make that point clear.

Trish Murray: [00:18:14] I’m not even at the 55 Mark. So

Chris Gazdik: [00:18:21] with us. We’re in good company. No. So I’m curious. Let me ask that question. Do you suppose that it might be different? somebody who’s older, never been married, like, you know what, 30 to 55. And then people that are older know older than that, 55 to 75 ish that have never been married. I would wonder if those issues are kind of different and move around in that, experience.

Trish Murray: [00:18:40] You know, I mean, again, I don’t know. I, I wonder it’s just longer that you’ve been sort of alone, I guess. And through that, it’s you get comfortable in your own space and. your own lifestyle routines. So then introducing another person into that. Again, it’s because of length of time has been, if you’re like 60 something and you’ve never been married.

And then you introduce someone into your life at that, that age. I think that would be quite an engine.

Chris Gazdik: [00:19:14] It really would. I could imagine as well. Yeah. Norms. That are normal for you for five years being an adult finally growing up after college from 20 to 25. Right. Changing those as opposed to norms that you’ve had 45 years.

Wow. Yeah. That would be, that would be hard. Yeah. That would be a hardship. That’s part of the beauty of what that would be for that person, supposedly.

Trish Murray: [00:19:37] Yeah. And also just, even when you think about older, the older you get, if health issues that may come into play. In your sixties or so, so there’s health may decline, you know, what, what does marriage relationship look like there?

Chris Gazdik: [00:19:54] Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. anytime we’re talking about relationships and whatnot, I always like to kind of point out, ad nauseum to the listening audience, the emotion focused therapy factors, I guess I’m not sure how much we’re going to be talking about dating. Like I said today, I think I really kind of want to try to pull it in.

because if we can and will, by the way, be doing a show on dating and emotion focused therapy. Cause I’ve actually started to already work on that. It’s a little bit of a new thing, Craig, that I’ve started to be thoughtful about in with a few clients that I have actually right now that are, are dealing with that.

And it’s fascinating. It’s actually post divorce and getting into the dating spiel or spectrum. But, Trish, do you know the, the ins and outs, and I don’t know the answer to this. Do you know the ins and outs of the emotion focused therapy model with Gottman and, you know, knowing couples counseling and what, with all that, or are you, are you aware of that or use that

Trish Murray: [00:20:44] last cycle of the pursuer withdrawal or, and the attachment based issues,

Chris Gazdik: [00:20:50] right?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You’ve gone that, yeah. I’ve actually went to a Gottman training. Do you like that stuff much? Or are you.

Trish Murray: [00:20:58] Like it a lot. And I use it with the couples. I used it with a couple today, much older, couple. See,

Chris Gazdik: [00:21:06] she’s 20 twenty-five years in terribly experienced therapists from West Virginia by God university, Craig.

She’s brilliant. And I told you, EFT is the best thing going with marriage counseling and stuff. Right? Of course she would be on the same page. Excellent. Shut up, Chris, look at his face. Yeah. Anyway, so you’re familiar with that. And, and I use that a lot too. I mean, I, I kind of came across God and stuff probably about, You know, seven years or so.

And it, dude, I don’t know about you, but it, it totally changed the way I do

Trish Murray: [00:21:36] couples counseling. Yeah. It’s a beautiful transition, right? Introducing it to couples.

Chris Gazdik: [00:21:43] Yes. Isn’t it. Do you just, Oh, sorry, Craig. We, we might go off on it. You have to change it because this stuff is like amazing to me the way when you’re able to describe that cycle and the attachment patterns that go on.

And what, what do you experience that, that, that, You know, couples of experience, when you begin to describe that, I’m curious,

Trish Murray: [00:22:02] I’d say almost like a light goes off. There’s a release of ha right. Makes sense. And through that, the tension in the room just drops. Amazing is what I would

Chris Gazdik: [00:22:16] say to a man and a woman when I introduced the cycles in a, in a counseling experience.

Yeah. Yeah, that’s cool. Yeah. I’m as neat. Anyway, sorry. I’ll get us back to her thing. I’m just excited about that stuff. Cause it, cause it works, it really, really works. So EFT factors in dating and you know, being single and kinda, you know, going through. You know, the process of dealing with all those things and it is tough, right?

Like we, we we’re, we’re people, we’re humans. We have our own emotions. We have our own thoughts. We have our own insecurities. I’m pretty open on a show about being on the abandonment side of the spectrum with that by, by far.

Trish Murray: [00:22:56] yeah. I heard that, that you and Craig both identified as such.

Chris Gazdik: [00:23:00] Yeah, absolutely.

and so,

Trish Murray: [00:23:02] and I identify as the other,

Chris Gazdik: [00:23:05] Oh, we got one of those crazy people. Crazy. I do not understand these people, to be honest, I got jokes. I’m sorry. so you are on more of the engulfment side of it.

Trish Murray: [00:23:18] Yeah. And I think that contributes a lot, quite frankly, with respect to, even with me in dating.

Chris Gazdik: [00:23:24] what do you mean?

Trish Murray: [00:23:25] Because I. I pull away. I, you know, and I, and I mean, there’s some other, just some of my personality is such that I do, I need alone time anyway. But, when, when somebody starting to pursue me, I, I, I do, I just pull away,

Chris Gazdik: [00:23:43] a little bit.

Trish Murray: [00:23:43] Yeah, just a little bit too much and I’ll circle back,

Chris Gazdik: [00:23:47] but I, in your time, Yeah.

And of course we’re running after

Trish Murray: [00:23:51] you

Chris Gazdik: [00:23:52] annoying the crap out of you. Yeah. yeah. Well, let me, let me open that up, I guess then in, in, so far as, you know, dating and how it’s interesting, right? How your clinical mind goes buzzing and trying to relax those things while you, you know, traverse the very challenging aspects of.

Of dating and whatnot. Like how, how does that, how does that work in your mind? Is that is, I would imagine it, I mean, I have been married, you know, for yet another day, thankfully and gratefully, right. you know, 20, what is it? Three, two, and, you know, playing a head game of what it would be like to date.

Honestly, it’s like, it messes with me. You know, like that would be hard. It would be weird. It would be like,

Trish Murray: [00:24:39] it would be a bad idea.

Chris Gazdik: [00:24:42] Well, there is that. Yes, there is that. But how, how can you comment or what do you think about how that occurred you or, or being single and understanding, you know, expertly really the EFT patterns and, and how that works.

Trish Murray: [00:24:57] how does that,

Chris Gazdik: [00:25:01] how do you experience that? Is that. Challenging to be single to date, professional knowledge about EFT and relationships and boundaries. I mean is, you know, I mean, you know, therapists, we have a head game in our head and it’s yeah know, it’s tough.

Trish Murray: [00:25:18] Yeah. Yeah. I have a committee in my brain, but with that, I will say because people often ask similar questions and I’m glad what you said earlier about, you know, we’re human.

I mean, I’m a person. I mean, I don’t wake up in the morning and put on my therapist cap. I, I’m sort of wired that way. but again, first and foremost though, I’m a, I’m a person. So,

Chris Gazdik: [00:25:40] in a nice one, Craig, I’ll have to say

Trish Murray: [00:25:43] and funny. you didn’t, you didn’t put that in the introduction, but, and, at any rate, So I think that can be a challenge for me at times is to, to not pick apart things.

I will say this, one of my friends used to say to me that, I never bless a marriage and that is not the case really. Yeah. Because it was a comment and relative to, I could foresee potential problems. In the relationship. And I would make a note of that. And I would say, you know, I think this is great.

I have some concerns about this and this. And he said, you’ve never said that’s going to be a great marriage. And I’m like, Scott, that I’m saying, it’s not going to be a great marriage. I think it will be a wonderful marriage. I’m just pointing out where some child challenges may arise. That’s all.

And I’ve been right every time.

Chris Gazdik: [00:26:39] Right.

Trish Murray: [00:26:40] So, So, I guess to that point, I, and I can be probably picky with when I’m dating too.

Chris Gazdik: [00:26:48] Oh, I would imagine.

Trish Murray: [00:26:50] So, but again, some of that comes because I’m older now and I’m like, I just don’t want to deal with yeah.

Chris Gazdik: [00:26:55] And then the engulfment tendencies or, you know, whatever.

I mean, and like I said, we have a committee in our head is the therapist and the monkey brain as you call it, Craig and whatnot. Craig, Craig, let me, let me chew me into you and see kind of what you’re thinking thus far and insofar as the conversation. And then you had said kind of your own perspective kind of as well, being, you know, single as well right now you’d said, right?

I mean, what, what are you thinking about. being single and mental health and what we’re talking about so

Trish Murray: [00:27:20] far, I think

Craig Graves: [00:27:21] it’s making me crazy. It’s my thing. I’m glad I could be friends with you guys.

Chris Gazdik: [00:27:26] Oh God. I think he’s being serious. Trish. What do you mean, man?

Craig Graves: [00:27:30] No, I’m just kidding about that. It’s just, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting conversation and, and being a professional and, and knowing these things about them people, I mean, does that help you.

Understand if somebody is a pursuer, you know, does that help you understand them better? Or do you still say, Hey, you know, I need my space. Are you still an engulfment person more so as much as anybody else would be, or do you walk a finer line because you are knowledgeable about these things?

Trish Murray: [00:27:58] I think it’s, probably stone engulfment personnel only because it’s almost reflexive.

So I’d have to be really tuned in to myself, I guess, to put the brakes on. and again, I go back to not just related to that, but also I’m an introvert. and you know, so I do need time away and people can tend to, to drain me a little bit. So, so that coupled with that engulfment thing can be challenging.

So

Chris Gazdik: [00:28:31] yeah.

Craig Graves: [00:28:32] I think I do have some more comments, but I’ll see where you go and ask. Maybe ask later,

Chris Gazdik: [00:28:36] go ahead. I, I wanna seriously, cause I, I, I think what your comments on what your thoughts are tuned into, what the audience might be thinking.

Craig Graves: [00:28:43] This is a dating question, but you know, has, has your, has dating changed over the years now that we have social media dating sites?

You know what, what’s it like today versus five 10? Years ago,

Chris Gazdik: [00:28:59] and it’s a fascinating thing. And you, you, I don’t know if you looked at show notes or were just like on linked sync, Craig, like we can be social media is where I was thinking next year. It’s a big factor in dating. And

Craig Graves: [00:29:09] the reason I asked was, so I got married when I was 30 and that was in 2002.

Yeah. So it seems to me that dating scene now is different than it was to that brief 2002.

Trish Murray: [00:29:21] I would agree completely, It’s just a different world. and so I don’t, I don’t do social media, any longer. I’ve really pulled away from that because in part, because of being single, you know, I see people posting, you know, pictures of, You know, families and spouses and, you know, kids graduating high school.

And that speaks to that grief I spoke to earlier in that really highlights and augment some of that. So I’m, I’m pretty mindful of it. but in, you know, the dating site world in general, and I’ve done, as I’ve mentioned earlier, that I’ve put on there that I’m no Catman. So, I mean, that was very clear.

but, Yeah.

So it is, it, it’s, it’s different dating older than younger even. So is what my experiences.

Chris Gazdik: [00:30:11] well, there’s a lot of differences. Like I say, with those categories of unit divorced or, or never been married or divorced second time or being young or being agent. And I think that, that we could highlight the experience that somebody has is unique to that person and what they’re experiencing it because it’s, it’s beautiful and wonderful and has a lot of freedom.

It’s also, you know, we’ll talk about loneliness point, whatnot, but sad and difficult. But for here, it’s interesting that I want to, I want to tune this in that. I love your question, Craig. And it’s a far as the. Dave, you have a uniquely, a very interesting perspective to me too, to needle into the idea that you’ve been single and an adult for more than we’ll say 15, 20, 35 for a long time.

Right. Right. Right. So for a little while, and you’ve seen that landscape that much, it’s fascinating to me to hear your perspective on social media specifically in the last 15, 10, 15 years. And previous to that, like how that landscape has just weaved its way through, you know, a couple, few decades.

Trish Murray: [00:31:14] I mean, yes.

I don’t know what you’re referencing to that other than just witnessing it and seeing it, I mean, I remember actually, quite honestly, I remember back in 1998, this is dating way back people. there was, one of the first sites for, internet dating, which was like virtually taboo. Like you do, you’re going to go on a date, met somebody on

Chris Gazdik: [00:31:39] yeah.

Kind of an attitude. Absolutely.

Trish Murray: [00:31:42] Really interesting. Now, retrospectively, But I remember my, such a dear friend of mine. She met somebody on a site. the name of the site was Christian connection. It no longer exists, but she, she met this man and they got married and they’ve been married ever since.

And that was, all those years ago. But I remember that idea of you met this dude on the internet.

Chris Gazdik: [00:32:06] Yeah, well, it’s, it’s funny because I’m thinking, and maybe this will help you kind of what I mean by the, how it’s weaved its way. You know, the landscape is society, specifically social media. My mom got remarried and you know, I’m from a divorced family.

She got married when I was a teenager ish at some point. And so, you know, she’s been married now for 20 plus years and, and she met. the stepdad, through a newspaper ad, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so it’s going back to, well, like that was weird that like you’re going to respond to an ad in the newspaper, right?

Oh, what’s wrong with you? All right.

Right. I did that on purpose this time. So, and so, but now you’re like, boom, boom, boom. I mean, you’re meeting people in Idaho that you might end up. Exactly.

Trish Murray: [00:32:54] Literally. Yeah, absolutely. Then, which is again to that, to that end. And that’s so interesting that you bring that up because I remember those days with the news paper dating ads, not for me personally audience.

but I remember as a, you know, definitely an early adolescent that those were in newspapers. So, But, yeah, so now the, in the dating world has changed, whether it’s, if you really want and people know the sites sites for, if you want to have engaged in a relationship or something more tangible versus something casual.

I mean, there’s different sites for different things.

Chris Gazdik: [00:33:32] That’s interesting. You, Craig, what do you take from that? That being single now or whatever. I mean, dating a lot of people know the sites. What do you mean? What do you think she means by that? Do you know the sites?

Craig Graves: [00:33:42] I think there’s some sites where she’s right.

You know, What time is it? It’s eight o’clock. I could probably be having sex at nine o’clock with just one single swipe.

Chris Gazdik: [00:33:52] Oh my God. Seriously. I mean,

Craig Graves: [00:33:54] seriously, that blows me away. It’s not a joke.

Chris Gazdik: [00:33:58] I’m like,

Craig Graves: [00:33:58] wow. So other sites, like, you know, either harmony or mat, maybe more long-term and, so yeah, I mean, I think those are probably pretty common, pretty common knowledge things.

Chris Gazdik: [00:34:07] Yeah. So did you know that before you were divorced or?

I don’t know, how long has it been? I’m just curious, tap your brain, like.

Craig Graves: [00:34:13] I don’t. Yeah.

Chris Gazdik: [00:34:14] Do you feel that, did you know that I can choose the app and knows that that’s what I,

Craig Graves: [00:34:19] I remember when I’m talking about Tinder. I can’t remember when that one came out, but I mean, that was the hookup app, right. So I don’t know if I was married then or not, but I did know about dating sites and I had a good friend I worked with who, was very successful on, on one of those sites.

He met his wife, I got a couple kids now and he had dated some other ladies on the site, too, that he knows. That he enjoyed seeing and hanging out with it just didn’t go any farther than

Chris Gazdik: [00:34:45] that. I guess. I guess what I’m saying is I know, I know you fairly well. We’re we’re buddies and stuff. And so I know your purpose is in dating and whatnot.

So I’m not going to ask you to explain that, but for the purposes that I know you two, want to date four, do you, do you, I mean, do you know the apps not to go to,

Craig Graves: [00:35:03] I don’t have any installed on my phone right. At this point, you know, I’m not a member on any site. but yeah, I know which ones I would probably use if I chose to do that.

Chris Gazdik: [00:35:12] Okay. But you just haven’t gotten into the whole right. Social media dating kind of thing. No, I

Craig Graves: [00:35:17] have not. I’ve got a friend who’s single, he’s 32, I think. And he really wants to start a family and be in a relationship, you know, and I encourage them to, to, to, to do that, you know, in, in, in my opinion, a paid site is probably more.

In line with somebody else who’s looking for a longer term kind of relationship, as opposed to a swipe. And

Trish Murray: [00:35:41] I agree with your

Craig Graves: [00:35:42] negative analysis

Chris Gazdik: [00:35:43] in a, in a picture. Yeah. That just blows me away. That that dive really seriously trips me out. But can you say what you mean by,

Craig Graves: [00:35:50] well, some sites, like, I think he harmony maybe even match, you have to pay a monthly, a monthly fee to be on there, a membership fee to be on the site and, So does the other person, and I think that probably weeds out some of the people who are just looking to have a good

Trish Murray: [00:36:03] time.

It definitely does.

Craig Graves: [00:36:05] Yeah.

Chris Gazdik: [00:36:06] So, so do y’all think that social media, I mean, we’ve talked about it a lot, Craig, you know, it kind of gets a little bit of a bad rap causes a lot of anxiety and whatnot. And I would imagine the anxiety that dating really has. I mean, it’s tough to date. It’s scary really in a lot of ways it can be a lot of fun can be a lot of interesting.

you know, create a lot of interests and, and, and be fascinating as well as is terrifying. I mean, it’s everything in what somebody experiences. So do you think that social media, you know, helps or hinders essentially, you know, the dating process? Both? Yeah.

Trish Murray: [00:36:45] I mean, I mean, it really depends. I mean, it can, I mean, the internet social media is fantastic for.

You know, bringing people together or having people meet. I mean, that can be, can be a great thing. And then it can be a nightmare, in terms of, you know, just the whole, just, just the nature of social media and how destructive it can be just at large, not even in the dating perspective, but a unit large, but in particular to dating, if you’re friends with people and you’ve both mutual friends on.

Sites. I mean, just that type of thing.

Chris Gazdik: [00:37:20] Yeah. I mean, I, you know, for me, one of the things I’ve learned in working with a lot of the, you know, the youth that I work with in clinically, I mean, they’ve literally like straight taught me, you know, how a lot of time, even just over gaming, video gaming and whatnot, I mean, they’ll, they’ll develop full ass flowed, loaded friendships with people.

They’ve never met. And I like literally 10 years ago, I was so like crashing on them and like, come on, you know, like, you know, and not crashing on him on me. I’m, I’m, I’m confronting and doing my clinical work with kids and guiding things and helping them to learn. Well, I’ve learned so much from them about how relationships develop that way, like full engaged in parents, listening out there.

It’s absolutely so fully engaged and get to know you, what you look like and a full relationship. Well, somebody in Japan, like, like it’s crazy, but that’s that happens.

Trish Murray: [00:38:16] Yes, that does happen. And it’s, but the it’s not a, I mean, the relationship with somebody is not over a computer screen. It’s more in person in life.

Chris Gazdik: [00:38:30] Yeah, they, the kids have taught me that they actually start making trips and begin to meet with people. And they’ve had a five-year friendship with somebody, you know, in another country. it, you know, here, you kind of say, okay, well, hold on a little bit, because there’s a lot missing there as well. Is that what you’re picking up?

Trish Murray: [00:38:45] Yeah, that’s what I’m alluding to. Yes.

Chris Gazdik: [00:38:46] Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, I hope, I hope you’re not going to have, like, you know, we’re, we’re not to the point where we have got settlements on Mars, where people on earth and work getting to know you, it was on the Mars settlement and we’re going to start dating. But, but I could see that day, I think is what I would say.

I mean, I can see that day and then you begin to. To connect with people and have a long-term relationship and, you know, and then meet, but still see. So you, your, your social media influences a little bit different than what you’ve experienced then, you know, kind of that is it just sort of get an aim and then now we need to go have coffee and

Trish Murray: [00:39:19] Oh yeah.

Whenever I would meet somebody online, I would say I don’t like this. Typing back and forth things. My very first thing is if you would like to meet, I’m happy to

Chris Gazdik: [00:39:29] meet for coffee,

Trish Murray: [00:39:31] let’s just get it out there, get it done. and see if there’s a connection. I don’t want to. Type back and forth. So I’m where are you from?

What do you do, blah, blah, blah. Well, let’s just go talk it’s quicker.

Chris Gazdik: [00:39:41] That’s interesting. D do you do, could you imagine yourself typing and doing the app and whatnot, Greg? Cause there’s some people honestly in my office and not for very long

Craig Graves: [00:39:50] either

Chris Gazdik: [00:39:51] because I have clients that are like, nah, I’m not meeting anybody until, you know, I get to know it’s, it’s almost like opposite from what you just said, right.

That they don’t want to. Wasted the time to come meet you and to do all that. If, if we, if we don’t have a connection, so we’re going to, we’re going to stay on the app and we’re going to, we’re going to do it that way. Otherwise.

Craig Graves: [00:40:10] Yeah, I’d argue. You don’t get to know somebody like that. Online person could be lying.

You know, you can’t, you can’t see facial expressions or body language or tone of voice or any of that stuff type in a bunch of stuff, man. I can tell somebody whatever. Show up and be somebody completely

Trish Murray: [00:40:26] different when you get to that point. I’m glad you said that as I have, I have met a couple people,

Chris Gazdik: [00:40:36] not what they posted,

Trish Murray: [00:40:37] not.

Yes, of course. and I was a little taken aback, but, I mean, I was this, the picture they posted may have been a younger picture rise, all say. And so, but, But not, you know, I was polite, but I have a good day. Yeah. That’s what it comes down to again, very, very polite and thank them for it.

Chris Gazdik: [00:40:58] You know, it’s interesting this, this segment that we’ve done here on social media, you know, we’re all three, I think here.

not technology natives. It’s a, it’s a term that I got into CEO trainings about technology and you know how this works. We’re not natives to that people that are natives and the adolescents and the kids that I’ve talked to and whatnot absolutely are. And I’m telling you the truth. I don’t know if you’ve seen it with clients or not, but I’ve learned that they absolutely do that.

They love the technology. They don’t see any reason for wasting the time to go have coffee with you. If we’re not compatible and they’re going to make that assessment on the app before they even get to where I agree with you guys, but they’re not going to do it. Yeah. It’s weird. It’s and I think the point that I’d like to make is we need to honor the experience of what an individual having in such a new landscape as being single in the digital age.

It really is.

Trish Murray: [00:41:50] Yeah. And I mean, I think you’re, you’re right. It’s honoring the individual for what they choose to do. So it’s, like I said earlier, I’m not speaking from clinical personal, I just am meet, get her done and see. Let’s

Chris Gazdik: [00:42:06] meet and get her done. Yeah, let’s take a, mid-point break. We’re a little bit beyond midpoint, but, let’s take a break and a highlight of our new sponsorship.

And then we’ll come back to the show Trish in a bit. So Craig, we have a new sponsorship, better help.com. Remember what that is and we’ll tell the audience what we’ve got going on there.

Craig Graves: [00:42:26] I know what it is, but I’m gonna let you tell them. I do know, it’s, it’s a way to meet a therapist online. But I’m gonna let you fill in all those good blanks,

Chris Gazdik: [00:42:34] right?

Well, we have a partnership with better help.com now, as you all know, over the months in. A couple of years now, actually I’ve gotten to know you guys. I don’t really like to talk about topics that I don’t really support or believe in and better help, is now like a new thing that I’m really kind of on board with.

And the pandemic it’s taught me that, the pandemic has helped me understand that, really telephonic therapy is something that, I I’ve been shocked that is very effective. I would not have thought that about before. I’ve talked about that, honestly, so better help. Dot com is an organization that helps to link you up with a therapist.

If you go through our site, we do get a, support from them. That’s the sponsorship part. So we do receive compensation for a referral, but you have to go through our site that helps our show out through a therapists, eyes.com. You click on the link and what happens is they do like an actual, like screening.

Tool, they get your, your, your, purpose of therapy. You’re a major presenting problem, characteristics that you’re looking for, and they match you with the thousands of therapists that they have throughout the country. And then you meet with them. I believe you can do as well as 10 phone, obviously is not going to be face-to-face, but it is a very effective and wonderful form of getting.

Therapy. So through a therapist  dot com click on through the counseling link and get hooked up with better help.com. Now back to the show. So. So let’s, let’s talk about let’s let’s transition and change gears a little bit to something I think, and would imagine that being, you know, in the single category, whether it be, you know, a different kind of experience of loneliness, when you’re, awkward, insecure, young, you know, in high school and you’re like, Oh my God, I’m never going to get married.

No one’s ever going to do this. I mean, you remember that feeling like when you’re young audience, like. You know, even those, the view that are married, like, or haven’t been married. I never going to find my spouse. I think we’ve all felt that way. Well, can continue and continue and continue for a while, by the way, let’s be aware of that emotion.

But, but, but then the loneliness of, of, of being, you know, divorced, you know, like that’s a crushing life blow, when you did not anticipate that happening, I happened to believe Trish. Curious, which you would, would, would say, but I’ve come to find in my clinical practice, but that’s actually like one of the most compensated emotional States, the people get money.

Trish Murray: [00:45:02] Yes.

Chris Gazdik: [00:45:02] Yeah. That was a quick agreement. Yeah. I, I just, I I’m mostly concerned and very aware when somebody is going through the first. loss of a and particularly of marriage, heartbreak is what you might say or suggest that is. But you know, that, that, that can be bad when you’re young and never been married, don’t get me wrong.

And as a matter of fact, that’s a very dangerous time for teens. I’ve seen kind of as well, heartbreak, heartbreak is a big deal, but, anyway, the, you know, the, the loneliness that you feel after a divorce is different than after a second divorce, you know, So let’s focus us in a little bit Trish. And what you experienced, you know, from your own experience, I guess, and then, you know, the factors of loneliness and being single big, I would imagine, or no, we deal with it not so big.

Trish Murray: [00:45:49] Well, I guess,

I mean, I guess I just deal with it. I, I acknowledge it. I don’t try to, minimize it or dismiss it. And I’m also cognizant to not let it overtake me so that, that I can take steps to connect with friends. I mean, I, you know, friends or family, so I do pay attention to it though. but, yeah, I just don’t let it overwhelm me to the point of paralysis.

Then I’m going to get sucked into. Vortex of depression.

Chris Gazdik: [00:46:25] Right, right. Yeah. You kind of deal with it. And what I hear you saying is it’s like, yeah, there’s loneliness, but it’s also okay. Yeah. Right.

Trish Murray: [00:46:35] Yeah. Because in essence, because I’m okay. So it’s, it’s just,

like I’m okay. And I know that loneliness will pass.

Right. That’s my perspective of my that’s. My perspective of feelings, feelings are. They’re all valid and legitimate and their information. Right. That’s all, they are their information. And it’s like, okay, I’m lonely. What do I want to do with the information? Do I want to like, be with it for a little bit?

Or is this one that I really need to reach out to somebody? Right. Right.

Chris Gazdik: [00:47:11] You can tell she’s just a little bit of a therapist, Craig. Right? How brilliant is that information? Emotions experienced is information that you need to do something with. That is all

Craig Graves: [00:47:21] that’s that’s. That is awesome. I love that. And when you said you were okay, do you mean okay with yourself?

Trish Murray: [00:47:29] Yes, my, yeah, my person that I’m okay. Okay.

Chris Gazdik: [00:47:33] Yeah.

Craig Graves: [00:47:33] Let me look a little further with that

Chris Gazdik: [00:47:35] tattoo to

Craig Graves: [00:47:35] have two therapists here, this question too, but, you know, I see people jump from relationship to relationship and it’s like, I’m not sure if they can’t handle the loneliness. Or if they’re not okay with themselves and they feel like they need somebody to complete them or whatever, the last thing you see on a throat romantic, the movie or whatever thing, you know,

Chris Gazdik: [00:47:59] you complete me.

Craig Graves: [00:48:00] Yeah. But I’m a firm believer that you have to be okay with you before you have, bring somebody else into your, into your life. So what do you guys think about that? The people who just seem to go from relationship to relationship and nothing,

Chris Gazdik: [00:48:14] couldn’t agree more with what you’re saying. I’m going to toss it to you, Trish and let you.

Gotta kick kill it because it absolutely is important.

Trish Murray: [00:48:21] so I have a couple of thoughts on that. When, when people speak about that, you have to be okay with you. Yeah. before we, I enter in relationships, I know people who aren’t okay with themselves are in really messy relationships, but, or that are, But they don’t even see that they’re not, they’re going to your point, they’re going from relationship to relationship, to relationship, trying to find something, and more than likely those relationships, the same patterns happen in each subsequent relationship.

Craig Graves: [00:48:49] It’s almost it’s it’s or sometimes you, similar things are,

Chris Gazdik: [00:48:53] if you get out of a marriage, you go to a second marriage and you do the same thing and you wonder, you know, why the insanity of it is doing the same thing and expecting different results. As they say in 12 step meetings. It’s it’s, that’s what happens.

Yeah. Unless I

Craig Graves: [00:49:06] know a lady that does something similar to that. And every guy that she ends up with is physically abusive. And I’m like, how the hell do you find these people who treat you this way every time? Yeah.

Chris Gazdik: [00:49:17] And it’s almost like you can, you can send a person into a room of a hundred people. Only two or three of them are that way.

They will forget the 97 others and they will find their way to that is amazing. Really because those emotional realities play out. And I wanted to say before I lose the opportunity. I mean, you know, when you’re in a marriage, you can definitely feel lonely, right? I mean, this is not at all too exclusive to single individuals.

Absolutely can feel lonely. And I would maintain that you struggle to have a healthy marriage until you have two healthy yeah. Bottom line. I’ve said that thousands of times. Right? Right.

Trish Murray: [00:49:53] I agree with you there to the point of, I, cause that doesn’t. escaped me that the loneliness within a marriage. Wow.

Again. Oh yeah. It’s like a vacuum, for so many people. This emptiness is what people share with me,

Chris Gazdik: [00:50:12] particularly ruthless, crazy abandonment people. Craig, I’m not important. You don’t listen to me. I don’t want to be all alone. Wait, this was played off of Joe. We did every UFT plague and we were retract up and just laughed about making fun of the insecurities, but, but they’re painful and they’re real and they’re they, boy, they go deep.

Yeah. You know when you’re in the middle of experience? Yes.

Trish Murray: [00:50:38] Yeah, absolutely. they do, they hit very, very hard.

Chris Gazdik: [00:50:44] w what did I want to think about with, with loneliness? You, you, you said something there too to follow through with, okay, I got it back. cause you were, you were talking about that and then you went and said it was a lot to unpack in, in how we entered into the loneliness thing.

And one of the things you started to say was, well, I can go with my family. I can go to my friends and you know, I know how to deal with this emotions that give me information. That’s a quote. We need to remember that one was graves. the, the reality of it is I made a statement. I think it’s my own original statement that the antidote to loneliness is friendship.

Right. So when you’re single, I don’t think it’s more, important than when you’re married or whatnot, but can you speak to, you do use of friendships and the importance of friendships, the value of friendships and how that helps you to cope, because part of what we want to help people understanding out there that are struggling being single or fearful in that state of singlehood, how do you cope?

I would imagine friendship has a lot to do with that.

Trish Murray: [00:51:39] Yeah. And, To that. Interestingly enough, most of my friends are married. Great. So

Chris Gazdik: [00:51:45] interesting.

Trish Murray: [00:51:46] Yeah. So that’s an, it is an interesting dynamic because, you know, when I go out with them, I’m going as a single person to a, to a party that friends are having, or I’ll go to my friends who are a couple with them for dinner.

Ah, the one bite me over something. So, But yeah, friendship is really my faith too. That’s another piece that, that helps with perspective. Yeah. That’s a huge factor for me. you know, and I’m a proponent to go vertical before I go horizontal. So, in terms of dynamics,

Chris Gazdik: [00:52:21] give me a lot of things. What, what do you mean?

Trish Murray: [00:52:24] I go vertical. Like I go prayer announce. So I’ll connect with. Again, connect with God. So my faith is really important. And then horizontally, relationally, I don’t know, like with, friends and whatnot people.

Chris Gazdik: [00:52:37] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s exactly what it is. But my head also directions

Trish Murray: [00:52:43] back to

Chris Gazdik: [00:52:44] back to here, I’m here, I’m here.

Trish Murray: [00:52:47] Yeah. So that’s what I mean by that. and again, see if my, faith, faith is a big thing for me. And I think that has helped sustain me. Throughout the course of my life.

Chris Gazdik: [00:52:56] Right? Yeah. That’s it. And, and can you imagine being single without that curious know. I can’t.

Trish Murray: [00:53:04] Yeah, I, in my, that’s my opinion because of it.

So because of my own faith, I can’t imagine not having that right. The whole me, so,

Chris Gazdik: [00:53:13] yeah. And, and I, and I would submit to you as well, you know, for married people out there, if you’re freshly in dealing with divorce and the pain that, that, that, that can be. you know, faith based reality, it can be a very sustaining, you know, for senior life.

And oftentimes when you’re hurting the most, you grow the most and oftentimes times that’s with, you know, faith tradition, right? Let me say that again. Oftentimes when you’re hurting the most, you grow the most. And oftentimes that can be really in the direction with a faith tradition. And I don’t have any problem kind of saying it in that way.

you know, I, we talked about that when, when my sister had died, there was an episode, not too long ago. My God, we’re coming up on it. That’s not pushing a year, not too far from now, man. That’s trippy. But you know, the, the importance of faith with grief.

Trish Murray: [00:53:58] Yeah.

Chris Gazdik: [00:53:58] You know? well we just hit grief a little bit ago and we hit loneliness now.

Like how important, the challenges of emotion and being singled, does that really just pile on together? Right?

Trish Murray: [00:54:11] Absolutely.

Chris Gazdik: [00:54:14] Well here let’s let, let me go to a direction that I didn’t really think about this man, Greg, until I was doing show prep. And so I just kind of wanted to Kirk, curious about this.

Have you ever thought about single people and children, right? Like having children, can you be single, having been single all your life and have children? What, what says you

Craig Graves: [00:54:36] don’t see? Why not? Yeah.

Chris Gazdik: [00:54:40] How

Craig Graves: [00:54:41] well, I mean, Many ways, the obvious way. I guess artificial insemination would be another adoption. I mean, there’s different ways you could, you could do it.

You could foster a child.

Chris Gazdik: [00:54:54] Yeah. It was just curious because I hadn’t really thought about it. And, you, when I, when I kind of thought, well, wait a minute. That’s right. Yeah. Do single people have kids? And I went down a similar road when I was thinking about this, but. Is there very much of a stigma associated to people that are single.

And can you adopt, like, is that even an option? Do you get resistance? We, you know, we used to have great resistance to, you know, gay and lesbian couples that you can’t be. You can’t have kids, lesbian family, household, Greg, you know that right? Well now. Yeah, you can. And do you, do you go to a DSS agency and adopt, I mean, there are other ways as well, Craig, but I want to sure.

If he can, I mean, how often that happens.

Trish Murray: [00:55:38] Sure. You can. Yeah. You can go through adoption. I have two friends, sewer, single women who have adopted children. and I’m that’s for me. I did not want to raise children, so, And, and you know, me and we have talked previously a lot of my time, especially earlier in life and I’ll circle back to the children thing, but Al was spent in education, pursuing my career, in

Chris Gazdik: [00:56:06] university systems.

Trish Murray: [00:56:07] So, and that, that also took a lot of my time. I mean, getting a PhD was a lot of work and I was working full-time and going to school full-time and doing all of that. And with that. that left very little room to do anything outside of that, those parameters. And, and that was important to me.

Chris Gazdik: [00:56:27] And it also

Trish Murray: [00:56:28] kept, kept me busy, kept me occupied.

And so that singleness sort of fell by the wayside. And then after getting in, trying to find me in terms of a career and working in higher education for 22 years, that was very time consuming as well. And so. But again that I love my work and enjoy my work. And so then I would, I would probably call myself a workaholic.

and

Chris Gazdik: [00:56:54] so was the conversation about that?

Trish Murray: [00:56:57] I know. so with that though, I think that also, bait some loneliness, but, it, with respect to kids coming back to that, you can certainly, that was not for me. I was, I was okay. Not having pursuing that, but I do know people that have.

Chris Gazdik: [00:57:15] Yeah. I think the thing I would say in there, you know, is that, you know, there’s a, there’s a lot of married couples that decide not to have kids.

Kids is a factor. So th this is a little sort segment on, on children, in being single and being in singleness with, you know, as a big factor emotionally because Hey, you know, having kids or, or. Not having kids and being judged for not having kids is like a big reservoir of emotion, right? Yeah. Yeah. Can you speak to like similar, what’s wrong with you, Tracy?

He ain’t even married. What’s wrong with you, Trish. You don’t want kids, right? Like there’s a lot. I have a sense of that. There’s a lot there.

Trish Murray: [00:57:59] I mean, there can be, I think again, that’s more attached probably to the marriage piece than just the single it’s. I don’t think the question, Patricia, you don’t want kids being a single woman that doesn’t come up as much as you’re clever.

Question of what’s wrong with you. So not being married. Right. So I don’t get that with what’s wrong with you that you don’t want kids.

Chris Gazdik: [00:58:27] You do not as a woman.

Trish Murray: [00:58:28] Yeah. Yeah. Not that as a single woman. I don’t get that question. What’s wrong with you? That you don’t want kids

Chris Gazdik: [00:58:33] really well

Trish Murray: [00:58:35] because I’m single. I think it might be, I don’t know this, but it might be different if I were married and they said, what you don’t eat, you don’t want kids or kids as a married woman.

I mean, I, I don’t know that I can’t speak to that, but

Chris Gazdik: [00:58:49] I think I am a little surprised at that because you know, we’re not too far removed from the day and age where, you know, people have the various stigma and stereotypes, if you know, well, hell women are supposed to be barefoot and pregnant, stay home, take care of family and have kids.

Your purpose is to care for the family. Right. And I don’t think we’re that far removed from some of those. The horrible realities that, that people got got stuck with in their head,

Trish Murray: [00:59:14] but that’s attached to marriage. It’s not attached to single,

Chris Gazdik: [00:59:22] you

Trish Murray: [00:59:22] know? Yeah. That’s not there.

Chris Gazdik: [00:59:25] Okay, cool.

Craig Graves: [00:59:27] Yeah. I hear what you’re saying too.

Cause I, I probably think the same thing, you know, you don’t have kids or you’re not married. That’s why you don’t have kids when you’re not married. You know? So I would never think to say, well, Do you want kids? Well, that’s weird, but I would tie that to not being married personally.

Chris Gazdik: [00:59:43] Well, I think that was interesting when I was doing the show prep and thinking about do single people have kids.

Cause I, I didn’t experience thinking about that initially either, but, but there, there could be a lot of the shame and any other piece I would spin as to his, his legacy, you know, like. You know, how you, how you know, how that brings up emotions in, you know, as far as, particularly for men, I think that, you know, carrying, at least in our culture, I know around the world, there are different cultures that carry different names and traditions and whatnot, but, you know, typically in our.

culture, you know, man keeps their name and the woman has to change her name, to become a part of the man’s name and dust the family. And you carry your legacy down and, you know, the man to the boys, to the boy, to the boy and the generations, right? So it’s a lot of weird feelings I think can swirl around kids and single and legacy.

And you know, that sort of, that sort of thing.

Craig Graves: [01:00:32] That’s probably not as prevalent in our culture may be as it used to be years in some others carrying on the name and stuff like that. I never hear. Anybody refer to there. Oh, that’s my son. He’s going to carry on the family name.

Chris Gazdik: [01:00:44] Oh, I, I still see the third and the fourth and whatnot

Craig Graves: [01:00:47] potentially.

I mean, what do you mean? Like,

Chris Gazdik: [01:00:50] James, John Smith,

Craig Graves: [01:00:52] the fourth. It’s not a, not a lot. And I don’t hear people talking in that respect either, you know? So I don’t know. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe that’s my experience and not everybody else’s, but.

Chris Gazdik: [01:01:06] Okay. So I’m here from uterus, not as much of as emotional reservoirs,

Trish Murray: [01:01:11] not for me, but I would think maybe for some others who quite honestly maybe wanted to have kids and it’s not that adoption is, I mean, you can, I mean, to Craig’s point earlier, I mean, they could do artificial insemination or they could have it the traditional way, whatever the case may be.

But I mean, adoption is not as easy for a single person. I mean, my friends that who adopted it was, yeah, they went through the same process as somebody who’s married, but it was just a little bit more challenging.

Chris Gazdik: [01:01:45] Interesting. I think, I think we’ll, we’ll, we’ll need to begin taxing in for a landing a little bit now.

but let’s, let’s kind of do a quick little segment on, you know, managing emotion and a jet, generally speaking, you know, when you’re single versus when you’re married, you know, curious Craig, you, you being divorced, and having, you know, seeing when you’re married and then now, you know, when you’re not, and kind of how that relates to.

A question. I just want to pose to us. Right. Is it easier to manage emotion when you’re married or when you’re single? You know, the weird question?

Craig Graves: [01:02:22] I think it depends. I think if you’re in a, a good, solid, supportive marriage, it’s probably easier to manage emotions, especially if you’re going through something.

you know, if you’re in one of these marriages we talked about earlier that are, you know, lonely, then it’s probably more difficult. And I think after a divorce, it gets to a point where, you know, I don’t need anybody to help me manage my emotions now, you know, and if I am going through something, I got people I can lean on.

You know, my mother still with me and you got good friends. So, you know,

Chris Gazdik: [01:02:55] even though you don’t want to hang out with me and watch social dilemma on Friday night, that was the last show. I’m not going to let that go, man. I want to watch that show with you or you may not have heard less shit. Yeah. We didn’t even get to that.

I think it was last year.

Craig Graves: [01:03:10] Some of you heard, but Chris said, yeah, we need to get together on a Friday night and watch social dilemma. I’m like, sounds like a load of fun.

Chris Gazdik: [01:03:19] No, that’s not how you put it. You said sounds like a little for a Friday night, hanging out with Chris, watching her social media dilemma,

Craig Graves: [01:03:28] UFC, and it’s awesome.

You know, hanging out, watching Netflix Friday night.

Trish Murray: [01:03:34] Dude man think

Chris Gazdik: [01:03:35] fine. I tell you what, let me, let me toss it to you, Trish and see what you think about that. And I’ll tell you what, one of the, one of the directions

Trish Murray: [01:03:41] of watching socials I’m with you on a Friday

Chris Gazdik: [01:03:43] night? No, no, no easier to manage emotion single or married.

Trish Murray: [01:03:48] I don’t know. Cause I’ve never been married. So you’re

Chris Gazdik: [01:03:51] throwing out

Trish Murray: [01:03:51] something that I know. I can’t give a comparative

Chris Gazdik: [01:03:55] drink and I love about laws. The good, good point. Sorry for that.

Trish Murray: [01:03:59] Again, what’s wrong with you. You’ve got it. You have a theme going on here and putting that foot in the mouth. But,

Chris Gazdik: [01:04:05] but that being said, you see a lot of clients and, and, and, you know, kind of go ahead and you’ll see what it means.

Trish Murray: [01:04:11] I think, I think relationships can be messy and I think, but that’s, that’s where we grow. And, you know, I think that, dealing. I mean dealing with emotions. Yeah, I can. I can, if I isolate myself and I can sort get myself together, you know, well being in relationship with somebody, I’m going to have to sort of stay in there with them.

And so we’re going to work through it. So that’s about negotiation in relationship to regulate the emotions. when I’m by myself, I can just do it on my own time. And so.

Chris Gazdik: [01:04:47] Yeah. And I think that’s part of what I was thinking with this, with this curiosity and insofar as maybe something to kind of pick your brain about and talk about because, you know, and I, wasn’t sure that you knew the EFT components, which you do, which is great.

Cause you know, It’s ironic to me that the closer you get with somebody and you can’t get much closer than when you’re, you know, when you’re married. It’s it’s the closest relationship we develop in life, like you said is messy and it’s, it’s almost like the closer you get, the more emotion you’ll feel.

You know, and like all jokes aside. I think the audience knows I’m joking with Greg, you know? but you know, if he doesn’t want to watch the show with me on Friday night, okay. You know what, that’s fine. I’m going to watch the show and I’ll have popcorn and I’ll hang out by myself on Friday night. It’d be great.

I would enjoy his company, but we’re good either way, buddy right now. But if my wife said. I don’t want to watch that with you, you know, it’d be like, well, there’s a certain lot more emotion there. There’s a certain, a little bit more insecurity. There’s certain more power that, that, that, that hurts the bytes.

And so in that regard, it’s harder to manage, you know, things in a, in a, in a close relationship.

Trish Murray: [01:05:55] Yeah, I agree. I’ve nothing more to say than that other than the fact that I agree because. Of the, I mean, again, not being married, but I did grow up in a family. Right. So I am one of five children. And so there could be a lot of messiness in those relations

Chris Gazdik: [01:06:13] siblings hurt.

Absolutely. And they’re wonderful, but dude, yeah.

Trish Murray: [01:06:17] with that, there’s that sense of vulnerability, even with siblings and whatnot, but All of that stuff. So it’s

Chris Gazdik: [01:06:23] actually a show idea, Craig, we need to kind of be mindful about, we haven’t done anything with the idea of being a single, you know, single child athlete.

I don’t think we have Abby got an only child. Yeah. Being an only child. Single child. Only child. Yeah. No, we haven’t done it. Yeah. That would be fascinating. Yeah. That’s my

Trish Murray: [01:06:39] second idea to you.

Chris Gazdik: [01:06:40] Well, we’ll have you back on because yeah, well that’s okay. Yeah, because I mean, those, those are, I don’t think. And I think to answer my own question, I don’t, I don’t think that there’s any, that is more or less difficult per se, in what you’re experiencing out there.

I think it’s, it’s a very different experience and being lonely and hurting and whatnot in a marriage can be, you know, Deep and powerful, but really different, you know what I mean? In a different sort of way, because people can feel quite bad when you’re alone in single, in Christmas time or whatever, looking at Facebook and all the children pictures.

And like you were kind of saying before, so it’s experience. Yeah. And I guess that’s been a theme, you know, kind of throughout our talk a little bit today.

Trish Murray: [01:07:28] Yeah. That’s what I’m. I agree. Yeah.

Chris Gazdik: [01:07:30] Yeah. w w where w where we need to wrap up and are you thinking it’s kind of at this

Craig Graves: [01:07:35] point? I’m not thinking anything specific.

I think it’s been a good, it’s been a good show. I think it’s been enlightening and it’s been a good conversation.

Chris Gazdik: [01:07:45] So I wanted to end up definitely and not, not end without, you know, how to manage. I mean, you know, people that are, that are listening to this might be newly divorced. You might be in your third stage of doors.

We didn’t get a chance to talk a whole lot about the difference it’s part, partly because it’s difficult to know. So she had been only experienced, but one of them, you know, and, and so of course we had the divorce and we have never been married. And I guess, you know, me dating and whatnot, you know, when in young, But how do you manage emotion?

You know, when you’re, when you’re in divorced States, when you’re in this most painful time, maybe you’re tuning into the show and it is a tough time. And you’re struggling with the idea of being, you know, separate and single and whatnot are separated. And, you know, and somebody makes this mean comment that they don’t even know they’re making, like I did with Trish.

And I said, well, what’s wrong with you? And that really hits you hard, like, right. How do you manage the emotions of this? What do you, what would you say, tuition? What, you know, w what works for you, or, you know, how do you, how do you cope with the beauty and the hurts of being single?

put you on the spot a little bit.

Trish Murray: [01:08:51] Yeah, I guess, because I’m thinking that, I am similar to what I said earlier about emotions. Emotions are like waves. I mean, they’re going to come and I’ll just sort of ride the wave a little bit. and, and, and I connect with people. I do make efforts to do that, to, to reach out when need be. but again, I’m a more of an introvert, so I will, I can I allow myself to feel what I’m feeling.

And then probably post healing. I might reach out to somebody and connect. Sometimes I’ll reach out beforehand, but probably less often. I’m, I’m more apt to, you know, go into a little cave of my own if you will, and then come out afterward.

Chris Gazdik: [01:09:37] But

Trish Murray: [01:09:37] emotions don’t scare me because it gives, I said earlier they are information to me.

And so.

Chris Gazdik: [01:09:44] That is definitely a cool takeaway. Craig, what do you think about that? As far as, you know, being divorced and going through the tough time? I know we, we walked through some of that, you know, together a little bit and whatnot, but I mean, w w what do you think about that? As far as coping with maybe particularly from a divorce perspective, you know, what helps you cope?

What helps you get through when you’re having tough times? do you have any thoughts or comments.

Craig Graves: [01:10:09] you know, I don’t think, I think I’m fine with, with the whole scenario. Now, there was a time when it was a, definitely a struggle when it was new and it took some time to get past that, you know, when you talk about grieving losses, you know, I grieve that, And that that marriage didn’t work out, not so much because, you know, it’s not like I want to be with that person anymore, but I grieve the loss that my kids are going to have for the rest of their lives and not having their mother and father together.

And, you know, so I do grieve for them quite a bit, but not, not the marriage. you know, for me, I guess, you know, leaning on people that, you know, that I knew and that I could talk to and. No, I did continue to see a therapist myself for a little bit there. You know, Jeff, you know, I’m not ashamed to say hello.

Chris Gazdik: [01:10:55] He’s also married. He’s a caller. He’s not a colleague. He is a, what is it when I’ve learned? What does he, when he’s your learning from mentor mentor, he’s a great mentor.

Craig Graves: [01:11:04] And he was a great guy. And so I went and talked to him a few times, you know? And, I think when I think we got to a point where he’s like, well, call me if you need me, you know?

So, so he helped quite a bit. And, you know, I think it was just the process of, of, of learning and self-reflection and, and getting to a point where I felt like I was, okay with just being me, you know, and I dated a couple of women and, you know, I dated a girl for, I think, eight months and, that didn’t work out.

And then I spent like the next 14 months alone, I went on a couple of dates, but basically I just. Got comfortable being me and being by myself, I have my kids every other week. And, you know, and, when I ask you about being good with you and you know, that that’s kind of where I felt like I needed to be and get to and feel like I’m there now.

So, you know, I’m, I’m. Doing all right, man.

Chris Gazdik: [01:11:56] Yeah. And I’m glad for that. And thanks Craig, for being willing to share and talk about it because I mean, you know, being married as I am, you know, I mean it’s funny and being therapists, right. Trish, when we get the question, you know, well, how do you cope? What do you do?

What are the skills? You know, there’s a lot of things you do to manage emotion. I mean, is the answer to that? Question is, there’s a pretty, it could be a pretty long list. And, and, and, you know, it’s, it’s similar when you’re married. I mean, when I’m dealing with those lonely feelings that I have, you know, when you’re married, you, you know, like you say, you think the only have those things, when you’re single look, you’re experiencing the realm in the book that I wrote no is on the self, but, and it’s looking at it like dealing with the, the, the, the wide array of emotional experiences.

Yeah. Yeah. I think what I’m saying is whether you’re single or whether you’re married, How you manage emotion? That’s a lot

Trish Murray: [01:12:44] overlap. Yep. Absolutely.

Chris Gazdik: [01:12:46] There’s not really any different, cause if you don’t think you need friends when you’re married, you’re crazy, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Do. So, yeah, it’s a little bit of a trick question, right?

Like how do you manage emotions being single? Well, same as you would when you’re married. Yeah. And I, and I do want to reference the listening audience to the episode we did recently. And if you are having a tough time with this, this particular issue in tuning into this and saw that in our list of shows, you know, episode 96, all about mental health strategies is the name of it.

You know, we listed and talked in depth about, you know, self care issues, breathing. journaling as, as, as practices, exercising, using friendship. You know, using nutrition, developing a one, five and 10 year plan, having a pet, whether it’s a cat, Trish, or a dog, right? Visualization, tension, tension, release techniques, sensory answers to panic feelings, using permanency words, introspectively challenging our assumptions from time to time revisiting stressful life and our events, attacking fear directly, you know, W we, I think we, we did and we will still develop, you know, a pretty good list.

I mean, you’re going to need to manage the way you’re feeling individually, whether you’re married or not.

Trish Murray: [01:13:59] I agree.

Chris Gazdik: [01:14:01] It’s tough because they can flood. They can be, they can be challenging and hard and painful, but also beautiful. And wonderful all at the same time. Trisha, is there anything that we kind of missed talking about, that you think is important in the issue of being lonely and how we manage that and, you know, kind of what you experienced kind of along the way throughout different life cycles and whatnot.

And we did a pretty good job of covering the different factors

Trish Murray: [01:14:26] being single. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, again, I appreciate you having me on and just talk about this topic it’s yeah, I’m really honored to be able to.

Chris Gazdik: [01:14:36] Absolutely. Okay, cool. Craig, anything you were thinking about? Oh man. So, so Patricia listen, when we, when we are wrapping up and someone has shared, I’d like to do a high five with somebody.

Creek is awesome. We get to do one like live. I haven’t been able to do that for a little while. We knew all the zoom crap and all this kind of stuff. So, what it signifies is the, the, the, the appreciation and the, and the courage that it takes to come on in and talk about these things. So I really recognize that for you, and I really grateful for you, and we really want to be.

respectful about that and, and say, thank you for, for what you’re doing. I think that honestly, talking about this as a topic that many people struggle with, and I think that we’ve hopefully helped a few people kind of out there along the way. So we’re going to do a high five ready,

Trish Murray: [01:15:18] real or virtual real,

Chris Gazdik: [01:15:20] real.

All right. That is real. I know we’re in a pandemic. I’m gonna go wash my hands. We’re going to be okay. It’s going to be cool, but, it is, it is a big deal and I appreciate you being on the show.

Trish Murray: [01:15:30] Thank you so much.

Chris Gazdik: [01:15:31] All right, guys, we’re going to see you next week. Y’all stay safe out there and have a good, a good week.

Take care.

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