In this show, Chris discusses the question that almost every person looking to get into a serious relationship should ask themselves, When Do Marital Commitments Begin? This question may seem simple, but when you look at the commitment of marriage and what that means to someone, it can be a very heavy decision for someone. We look the fact that you need to be aware of what is important to you and that will give you the questions that you should be asking your partner before you talk about marriage.
Tune in to see When Do Marital Commitments Begin Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Listen for the following takeaways from the show:
- Before we talk about marital commitments, you should go back and check out Episode 162 about New Dating Patterns.
- We review EFT – Neil’s definition is that it is about how you react when the heat is on, especially in a relationship.
- Premarital counseling is a great investment to your commitment with the other person.
- What are the questions you should be having conversations about?
- Listen to Episode 102 when talking about Expectations in Marriage.
- Setting expectations early and often can help prevent resentments.
- You like to act like you’re married before you are married, but when should that start in a relationship?
- You cannot be married until you are married.
- The ultimate goal is getting to a point where you can say anything that comes to your mind to your partner/spouse.
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Episode #187 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello there you have found Through a Therapist’s eyes, the podcast where you get to get personal insights directly in your car or home from a therapist. I’ve been a therapist since 1995 in one form or another. And we have Neil with us for the second week in a row. You get to hang out with us on the mics and on the video cameras.
Welcome back,
Neil Robinson: sir. Thanks. Not a therapist. I just play one on a podcast. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: He slept in the holiday Inn yesterday and see the world through the lens of a therapist, but be aware is not delivery of therapy services in any way. Really appreciate you hanging with us, listening with us, following the show. We actually sold a, a piece today.
I think I, I noticed on the merchandise a bubble [00:01:00] somebody’s got a journal is what I think it was. That was kinda cool. And I have a little bit more specifics. It’s a really fun way to help us out with a show. We’ve we haven’t gotten the quotes yet. We need to get that kind of going. We’ve got the, the logo and stuff out there.
You got a cool journal that you can get and use. We’ve got a jigsaw puzzle I’ve talked about, I think is really cool and hats and cell phone cases and stuff. But, but anyway, it is a way that helped the show. So it is a percentage that we get to support the monthly costs that that, that we encourage to do this.
So it’s like 20% you know, so if you spend 24 bucks, we get like $4. It goes our way. So it’s, it’s a, it’s a significant. Yeah.
Neil Robinson: So, so if you guys, you know, what Chris talking about, there is a merge button at the top of the website, and you can see this, the stuff we have with the logo and the slogan. And like Chris said, we have a puzzle, but you know, reach out to us on social media, through email.
Like, if there’s something that, that you, you want something that you like, you know, Hey, I like coffee cups. We can make sure we have our coffee cups, you know, [00:02:00] just let us know what you’re looking for. You know? Cause there’s a lot of stuff that we didn’t even put our logo on. We didn’t want to overwhelm
Chris Gazdik: everyone.
And there was a little bit of weirdness dude, the logo on the pillow freaked me out. Like, dude, like we could go
Neil Robinson: get you some leggins, some leggings and
Chris Gazdik: big eye on it. Yeah. That’s there are some creepy factors to the eye logo. So we’re going to get some phrases that go in there. But but it really does help us as what I want to make a big point.
And we thank you for really being with us and listening to us around the world. We love doing the show with us. Five star reviews, help out a lot. Subscribe to us on the social media platforms, apple iTunes, let’s you make comments that is really helpful to us. So keep it going, man. This is the human emotional experience.
We endeavor to figure this out together. So we’re talking about when do marriage commitments begin today? I think that’s a, I’m curious, as you saw in Neil kind of found out late, late in court that he was going to [00:03:00] be on the mics live today. What was your impression? It’s a F it’s a funny title. I think isn’t it right?
Like w w what did you, what’d your brain do with that when you saw, like, okay, well, I don’t know when you get married, right? When you say, you know, with the wedding, it w it’s a funny title. What’d you think of it?
Neil Robinson: I questioned the validity of people’s marriage commitment, even after they get married in today’s society, but that’s a, that’s a whole nother that’s, that’s another show, different show. But no, I think it’s, it’s a very interesting topic. Cause you know, I kind of look back at my life with my wife, you know, and, and our relationship before we even got married, when we met they at that timeline, it really is kind of, they, you kind of have that weird, weird time when you first meet that person.
When does it actually get to that? Seriousness, you know, when do you really, you know, go from, oh, we’re kind of feeling things out too. I really like them to wait. I am, you know, it’s like, it’s like [00:04:00] those, those steps. And so it’s huge. Yeah. They
Chris Gazdik: really are steps. I mean, the full, basic traditional is, you know, you meet and greet and you like each other, and then you go on a date and then you date a little bit, and then you make a commitment to dating exclusively fan for a while or a little bit of time.
And then you make a commitment to get married. You have a fiance relationship and then you get married and now you have lots of different forms that people kind of get into living in together. And you know, second marriages. Different relationship structures are all around now. So it, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s just the intended title was, I thought a little provocative.
I just created it honestly, to think about, to get really people to think about what are the boundaries here? When did they really kick in? How do we really deal with these things when we’re going to set up a life together in, in marriage?
Neil Robinson: I mean, there’s even some like my wife’s aunt, her common law husband.
They never actually got married, lots of it, but they lived together for a very [00:05:00] long time. They just never had the official paperwork, but there, they had marital commitment without marriage. Yeah. So
Chris Gazdik: it’s kind of interesting thing, which is interesting. I, I always, I hesitate there because I I’ve had common law partners that.
Actually get married after years and the day after they got married, even though they were together in common law for 15 years is like, boom, everything’s different. That weird
Neil Robinson: pressure. That weird. Hey yeah, it’s a thing, man.
Chris Gazdik: It is. Yeah. It’s, it’s a thing for, for sure. So this is interesting. They didn’t do them back to back.
Like I kinda wish I would have done these back-to-back because this show really blends a lot and I’m going to pepper it into the thoughts that I’ve prepared about all this with episode 1 62. So if you, if you haven’t, you can listen to this one all the way through and then go back and listen to that one because but they do work together really well.
New dating patterns [00:06:00] move in together or wait was what we talked about. Time on episode 1 62. And I think that you’ll really enjoy that in combination. Cause I even went back to my thoughts about that and and combined them a little bit. So you’re ready. Maybe you’re prepared. I think you saw the show notes when you were preparing for the show earlier in the day, knowing that you were on the hot seat.
So EFT emotion, focused therapy, always like to give a review. I like to challenge people now cause it tunes my brain into what you know about it, what you don’t. So if you’re willing, would you like to do or be willing to do the review?
Neil Robinson: I’ll try. So to me, the emotion focused therapy is the. The I, the idea that everyone has two different directions, they go, when they are challenged, you know, the word or their emotions say, you know, whether we’ve talked about abandonment or engulfment, it just goes back to what is that nature that we revert to, or that we always fall back on to.
Which is one of those things. I know you don’t like the personality [00:07:00] traits test, which, but you fall back on, you know, that innate nature, you know, when it comes to relationships or how things are happening, what is, what is your emotion you get? And how do you react when you, your backs against a wall when you’re in those serious relationships or serious questions, and, you know, your abandonment people have that fear of being, you know, someone leaving them or, or losing them.
And then engulfement is the other way where they’re afraid they’re going to get swallowed whole and swallowed whole as an, engulfment person, you know, There’s a difference and you know, like, oh, they’re going to leave me. Ooh, quiet time. That’s so I think that’s the fun part is you and I are co-hosting or work together.
We, you and I have different personalities. We’re opposites. You and Craig were the same. So it’s kind of fun now with this dynamic. But yeah, I think that’s, and I’ve struggled with this a lot since I’ve started the working with you on the show about like, there’s gotta be more to than just two sides, but then as you’ve talked, it’s like, oh, okay.
It makes sense. It pseudo makes sense [00:08:00] to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He did good
Chris Gazdik: with that, Neil. I appreciate you, you taking a good stab at that because I know that it’s, it’s challenging. Right. And, and when you do that, you learn more of what you’re you’re you’re presenting about. I find, and it’s, it’s it’s, it’s always surprising to me Like I’ve said before, like I’ve had people in therapy working intently on these issues or from this perspective for like months or a year or more, and they still get like, you know, wait a minute, which one did I, which 1:00 AM I Chris?
You know? And I’m like, oh, well, you know, yeah, that’s on this side and that’s some of the tendencies and cause it’s just amazing to me how much this all stuff blends together in people’s minds. Right. Cause you’re just experiencing it. You’re just in the moment of, of these things. But go ahead.
Neil Robinson: And that goes back, like he said, it’s in the moment, like, this is like when you’re not guarded and you’re not, it’s like, this is just, this is your innate, this is how I react, you know?
And so I think that’s because it is that way. And then when people will circle back, like the next era, [00:09:00] two, couple of days later, they don’t think about really what was going on. And so that’s where that it could, that water can muddy. Yeah. I need to get the, I need to have like something out there to people can get that handout because we created that handout of abandonment and engulfment, and I think that’s a really cool cheat sheet that we can start offering to people.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Neil Robinson: I think it’d be like, which one am I, you know, you give it to your significant other, like here a circle, which ones do you see for of me? And I’ll do the same for you. And then, then we’ll go to counseling.
Chris Gazdik: Absolutely. I think the thing that I want to highlight is, is to, to back you up as John, Dr.
John Gottman created this observation of people and it, it really is a piece of when you’re triggered and when you’re in emotional state, when something gets really worked up or bubbled up, it’s when you get heated or when you get, you know, when your spouse and you are in something. And, and so not when you’re just normal times, you can still see very big tendencies.
And as you say, it’s ingrained, but what’s really [00:10:00] loud is when you get into a disagreement or a problem state, you’ll get into this state and then you’ll really do what you do. And abandonment people pursue. engulfement people withdraw. Those are the keys of abandonment. People will pursue, they’ll run you down.
They have to talk about stuff. They have to get things dealt with now. Like we don’t know how to pull back very well engulfement. People tend to just shut down, put walls up, it’s the withdrawal. And they just would rather just have peace. I don’t want to deal with anything. I don’t want to share my opinion or view because then we have more to talk about, you know, it’s like this back and forth and it gets very, very cyclical.
So if you’re let me tell you what if you’re a newlywed or thinking about getting engaged and listening to this show for that reason, given the title, like, look, check out episode 11 and one-on-one I refer people to that all the time. It totally lays out that, that foundation really well.
Neil Robinson: And, and I think going into a relationship with that understanding can really help help you as a couple, [00:11:00] because I know, I know there were so many things that my wife and me, because we’re opposites too in this, and that’s one of the first things that you kind of go through the honeymoon period, and then you start getting a little.
The relationship gets real. And then you start seeing that, you know, why does he always keep leaving? I was like, why does she not leave me alone? You know, seriously. And so you start. And so I think you have to have that understanding, like, even though I didn’t know this, my wife and I talked about that a lot where she’s like, I was raised to just yell and get it out, do it.
I’m like burying my head in the sand and it’ll go away. Right. Right. So, and that’s
Chris Gazdik: so common that opposites do kind of attract is, is the key is the key there. Let’s go back to episode 1 21 62. And do you remember that one very much when we talked about the move in, don’t move in together.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. You, you said don’t do it at all.
Chris Gazdik: I was that star said, you
Neil Robinson: let you, you favored that direction where it’s not, not [00:12:00] move in too early, you know, kind of thing before marriage.
Chris Gazdik: Do you remember why that was my lean. That would be challenging. I’m trying to go back and think, because I’ll take you off the hook. It’s, that’d be impressed if you remembered,
Neil Robinson: I I’ll let you, I’ll let you.
Cause I’m trying to think of somebody like with the marriage and then now you have now you’re together and there’s this commitment and everything kind of works where if you move into early, it kind of, there’s a shift. It’s kind of weird in the dynamic from moving into
Chris Gazdik: marriage, you’re playing around with it, right?
Yeah. Because what I really believe that the number one reason that people tend to do that is because they want to see what it’s like. They want to make sure let’s be thorough and know each other on that level before we make this life commitment. But the problem with that is what people are doing is they’re testing out.
How do we relate? How do we engage household tasks? How do we manage our life together, living together, laundry, all the nitty gritty, [00:13:00] right? Who cooks, who cleans whatever. And so. You feel like you’re getting an accurate test, but the reality of it is it’s not accurate at all. As I said, people have been common law marriage for double digit years plus plus.
And when they have gotten married it’s as though everything just changed, they it’s it’s, it’s, it’s all different. So you’re just, you’re not getting an accurate reading is the thing. Right. And when you’re engaged and not living together, you can get all the information that you, you need. I fear that it creates false beliefs.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. And I think also if you move in before you’re really committed, you don’t have that pressure of, of that commitment. So like you said, it’s a completely different dynamic. Oh, you know, Hey, we’re moving in together. Okay. If it doesn’t work out, who cares, you’re less stressed, but then you go through and you’re married now.
It’s like either, listen, you got to deal with the
Chris Gazdik: stupid
Neil Robinson: stuff. Yeah. If you, if you’re really [00:14:00] committed to it, you have to deal with it. So it adds an added layer to it. And I think a commitment I’m a big proponent of waiting until you’re married.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. Really? I mean, if you’re going to stay together or get divorced based on laundry, come on.
Neil Robinson: Would, that’d be a lot more divorces right.
Chris Gazdik: Based on food. And. Bathroom rituals and routines, like, come on. Those are the things that you need to know to make a decision. I’m going to spend a lifetime with you. So you’re getting false information about what it is about you and the person and the, the levels of boundaries and emotional commitments.
And we’re going to talk about tonight, the idea of what are, what are some of the things you need to talk about? And I really enjoyed thinking about that list. I spent a little time on it, really thinking about it because that’s the important information you really need to, to think about, to hear, to know, to learn, to share, and whether you do laundry once a [00:15:00] week or once a day or whatever, it’s just, it’s not important, man.
I think
Neil Robinson: someone said when it came to religion was like, you have to align on the dogma, but the doctrine and the other pieces you can kind of disagree on. And these are those questions is,
Chris Gazdik: is the big word for me. That’s
Neil Robinson: kind of like the, the overarching emphasis of everything, you know, as a Christianity, it’s, you know, Jesus and the resurrection, you know, with, I’m not going to go to the other religions cause I’ll butcher them.
But the idea is you have that one ever present, like across no matter what the denomination is, there’s that one thing. And so these questions you’re going to talk about are going to be
Chris Gazdik: around the world would be voting and that’s the dogmatic,
Neil Robinson: right? So the dogma was that big thing of the doctrine and the practices.
Those are kind of like, well, you could smoke out dance, we’re fine. You know, kind of like Baptist. So, so I think that’s what, and I think that’s, what’s important being aligned on the dogma, not doctrine, not the doctrine because the dogma is what matters. You know why I want to kids, how you raise them. It’s going [00:16:00] to be different because we can have
Chris Gazdik: that on a pillow for the merchant Neal.
But I think the back of the pillow might need an explanation, like a full written out paragraph. Sorry, it just popped in my head. I want to shoot through these things a little quick in the beginning so we can get to the stuff that I wanted to spend though. You know what I got to do today? Not today.
When was it? Two days ago, Tuesday, Tuesday, pre. Counseling. Awesome. Yeah.
Neil Robinson: Do you think it’s going to work now?
Chris Gazdik: No, I’m just kidding. Y’all that was a total joke. No, they I did. I get, I got to do an initial assessment and it was pure and simple premarital counseling. I’m telling you it was so cool. And I was, I told them that that was the case.
I don’t get to do that a lot. You know, you’ve heard me talk about that on the show before.
Neil Robinson: Usually it’s more like pastors and priests are the ones that kind of usually do premarital stuff. That’s what we did. We did. It was like a, I think one of Alicia’s pastors when, before we got married,
Chris Gazdik: 15 minutes was ours.
[00:17:00] I think literally, maybe a half hour sat down for one time for like a half hour 45 minutes tops. And you’ll do like a two, three session stuff. Some, some places you’re right. It is pastors and counselors or not counselors. Pastors that get programs developed from counselors is what I’m trying to say.
And w which has a bit more thorough, but you just get so limited scope when you’re doing things that way. And a lot of times it’s really based on gender norms, which isn’t at all, by the way, EFT review has nothing to do with the way that people organize their behavior. Yeah. You’d think that all men are supposed to be engulfment in their man-cave leave me alone.
Give me my space. I don’t want to talk coming
Neil Robinson: from Mr. Abandonment. Right?
Chris Gazdik: We have to talk about things.
Neil Robinson: And this was kind of, that is one of the cool things about EFT is that it really doesn’t matter which one’s, which, and that’s why it’s always important when you go into a [00:18:00] relationship. Yeah, it could be either way
Chris Gazdik: and grossly misunderstood when you don’t, when you don’t really get it.
So my plug here is do premarital counseling and, you know, I took from your words last week, I think it was Neil when you were talking. No, it was when Melissa. And you were, we were struggling with the word, I think. And you, you popped in on the mic and you’re like, I think of it as an investment. Like it’s not counseling work right.
To can, can you see the value of making, being married for, I think a while now, right? You double digit years, I think 18, 18. Can you imagine what an investment, how valuable and investment is in premarital counseling? Just being, having been married that long? Oh,
Neil Robinson: it was huge because we did it, like I said, we did some premarital counseling.
We have, I guess wow. With, like I said, Alicia, pastor, we did some stuff with them and I think it was maybe two sessions, two or three sessions. We didn’t do therapy, but I mean, it’s one of those [00:19:00] things, Alicia and mere kind of a interesting, unique people, but. We invested the time, even though it wasn’t as much as say a six week session or this other stuff, there was still that you understand that because we were committed for the long haul, it’s worth the time to make sure that we’re grounded.
We have that good foundation when we get together. And so that’s, you know, because we are committed to long time, you know, 40, 50 years, however long it is before.
Chris Gazdik: It’s a long time. How much time do you spend researching your car or talking to the, you know, the different people that you have to talk to about that for crying out loud?
That’s a new metaphor that just created it in the moment. I mean, Buying a house. You ever buy a house? Like my gosh, how much prep work do you do to protect your investment? Have a stupid house.
Neil Robinson: Well, how much investment do people do? Looking at Yelp reviews, just for dinner. It’s
Chris Gazdik: seriously. It is perfect.
Yeah. You’ll, you’ll read down through, you know, I bought a speaker and [00:20:00] oh my God. I started reading the reviews and one person wasn’t happy. And I read and read and read and read like, you know, I spent time on this investment. Premarital counseling is a hugely important wildly potential investment in your time and space together as a spouse, I’d really, really like to highlight that.
I just can’t say that enough or strongly enough.
Neil Robinson: And I think, you know, this may sound kind of counterproductive, but I think premarital counseling could also keep you from. And committing to someone you shouldn’t be committed to. There, there there’s a benefit on both sides of it because you might think, oh, this is the best person since sliced bread.
And if you go through counseling and someone like, you know, like you, Chris, that can say, look, there’s some red flags or some issues, you know, and you, you know how to direct the car. And you talked about it, your experience allows you to direct the conversation, just so you don’t have to say that person’s not good.
You can guide it to where you ask them the question that kind of maybe triggers the other person think, wait,
Chris Gazdik: wow, [00:21:00] Neil, what. I’m so glad that is so organic. And I’m so glad you just said that you’re, you’re totally on point. What you just did is put my mind in a little bit of a journey, imagining something that’s never happened to me doing premarital counseling with a couple that really seems to be in like a guise or a direction, or to have some warning signs of domestic violence, right?
Like, wow. As what just went through in my mind, like how would I deal with that? What would I do is what I was just doing a little journey with while you were talking about that. And you’re so true, that’s so true. Like I wouldn’t say, oh my God, you guys are out of control. You know, this is a, don’t do this, don’t do this, but I’m definitely going to be asking questions that point tiddly gets at when you feel this and you do that.
Happens for you. [00:22:00] And I’m going to be looking at a person and I’m getting weird vibes from that has some narcissism in them as some, some, some, some strong codependency. And I’m going to say, well, when he’s kind of booze mean during that fight, and you just sort of went in your shell and didn’t tell him what you were thinking, what happened with that decision and what did that result?
I mean, I’m going to. I’m going to be on that stuff kinda. Now don’t get me wrong. I can only see what somebody is presenting and it can be totally missed as well. So I don’t want to set up an unrealistic
Neil Robinson: thing. It goes back to the importance of having more than just a 15 minute pre counseling, if you’re really going to go that route.
And you know, of course the reality is if you’re in that type of relationship for usually the, the abuser would probably not want to go to premarital counseling. So that would be one of those things what’s never happened. Maybe it’s just as simple as you guys really don’t jive, you know, like, wait, he wants 20 kids and you don’t want any, like what’s going on.
Did you even ask these questions? [00:23:00]
Chris Gazdik: Good segue. What are the questions? Let’s talk a little bit about the things that you might really want to talk about before you get. All hitched up. And, and I, and I did that because it gets at the questions of when, you know, when did these commitments begin? Well, it isn’t a commitment when you’re just talking, but if you think very early on in that process, when you’re dating, you’re beginning to get to know somebody and you begin to talk about these things and they’re important kind of delineation delineations on what it is.
That’s okay. And what’s not okay. Like you, you have certain amount of deal-breakers and that’s why we talk about these things. So it’s not quite a marital commitment when you talk about, first on my list was, you know, do you want kids or not? And that’s an easy one to pick. I’m sure people would, you know, be able to do this, like Facebook live right now.
If you totally [00:24:00] live with us type the many things as you can think of. And we’ll see, that would be fun to see what was on our list for what you’re seeing right now. So type. Into the line there. Maybe try to come up with five things that you would think important to talk about, and we’ll see if they made them on our list.
And if they didn’t, I will give you, you know what, maybe we should send them something from the merchant button. We’ll send you something
Neil Robinson: I’d love to start doing stuff with the merchant, getting
Chris Gazdik: we’ll send you something. If you get something that’s on the list, it’s timestamped. Now we’ll know where it is.
Now I lost my train of thought, what was I saying?
Neil Robinson: What was I saying? Questions, conversations are less committed
Chris Gazdik: than, yeah. So if you don’t talk about kids, you know, and one one’s Manila one, doesn’t your, that’s a big factor. So that’s why I say people are probably going to get that easily. But no, what I was on is the idea that, you know, when you have that conversation, it’s not a hard and fast commitment.
That’s a part of marriage, is it? But if we’re dating three months [00:25:00] in and you tell me, I absolutely don’t want kids. And I’m sitting here thinking, yo, like I family’s always been important to me and we talk about that and you say, well, yeah, okay. We, we, we worked through that issue and you say, okay, well I could probably have a kid for you because you know, if we’re really getting married, I, I, I would, I would maybe do that.
Well, that’s pretty important. So when we get married a year from now, and you told me, I told you, I didn’t want to have kids. I have a problem with that. Right. So these are marital commitments sometimes way early on in the meet and greet and get to know you. Does that, does that point hold, does that make sense?
Neil Robinson: Yeah. And I, and I think, I think the key that you mentioned too is that, cause I don’t want someone to listen to you. Like we just don’t agree. It’s not going to work out when it comes to the reality of commitment in relationships, just because you don’t agree initially. Doesn’t mean that there’s not a, not a compromise [00:26:00] going to happen.
Yeah. But I think you have to, you have to understand that there has to be a crime. If you don’t agree. There has to be compromise on one or two. And if, and if you’re the only one compromised, we talked about some of the bad behaviors, then you got to look at that as a red flag too. But, you know, I think that’s something that, you know, my, my wife and I we’re big on, you know, making sure that we both were pretty much set to have kids.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. We were actually clear as like one, two and done.
Neil Robinson: We were like, we were like, no matter what happens to we’re done, you could go for the perfect, like, you know, bored girl combination been great. But you know, we got two boys, which I’m honestly so happy to have boys, but my wife is too. She was like, I don’t know what I’d do if I had a girl, like, cause she’s not really girly, but it’s like so glad, but then we still have the teenage attitude.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, there was a lot. Yeah. There’s, there’s a lot that as we could digest it. Parenting strategies. Oh, that’s number two on my list before I go any further, Neil, I [00:27:00] mean, you know, catching you, you know, with just a fresh mind, I don’t know if you went down through all of those things that I’ve spent some time on.
D what do you think is important when you think about what our marriage commitments and things to discuss and talk about? You could probably pick a couple of simple ones,
Neil Robinson: right? Yeah. I’m trying to think. Like, when I, cause I tried not to, once I saw my part where I was in it, I didn’t try to read it because you like the surprises and stuff like that.
But I know kids was a big thing for us. Honestly talking about our family history because both of our dads had been married, like they were on their third marriages. So that goes back to the, you know, for us, it was, there was more, more. Principles on the commitment. Like if, once we get married, we’re, we’re committed, you know, we don’t want to be like our fathers.
And so we looked at that, you know, we did talk about religion, you know, what is our faith and believing, you know, she was raised Southern Baptist. I was raised in home fellowship. So, but we were still both Christian. And so we understood that as the
primary
Chris Gazdik: base, I remember talking to a lady [00:28:00] dating her in college.
She was a, in the Pentecostal faith tradition. Right. And I struggled with that. I remember talking to my grandma about it actually, like, or it wasn’t my grandma. It must’ve been, yeah. She, she died when I was fairly young in school, so yeah, I think it was early on anyway. I’m like, wow. You know, can I, can I date someone that’s that different than, you know, my basic Catholic at the time faith tradition.
And that was, it was an interesting,
Neil Robinson: that’s quite a stretch. Even our Catholic costal. That’s a huge, like, that’s a pretty big stretch. It’s different on the, on the Christianity scale that. It’s almost like opposites. Yeah. So, yeah.
Chris Gazdik: And that was my, that was my major upbringing and stuff. So I remember talking about with that girlfriend and she.
Yeah. I’ll just leave it at that. We had some good conversations about it.
Neil Robinson: I mean, th those were kind of, those are kind of our big dogmas when it came down to it. And then of course, we talked about the principles that we want to put for our kids, you know, what were some of the foundations and how we want to raise them the [00:29:00] rest of the stuff that we had.
Cause I’m looking at your list. I’m like, we worked through a lot of those things, but it wasn’t like, okay, that’s, you know, you’re talking about, you know, your dreams, passion and support, you know, planner versus not, you know, like a lot of that stuff. We just kinda, that was kind of the fun part to explore as we got to know.
So it wasn’t, this happens very naturally. Yeah. And so that was good. So we didn’t really talk about it, but it’s like, oh, and then of course series done already. Like, God that’s driving me nuts. Oh wait. No, that’s because that’s how they are. And it’s like,
Chris Gazdik: because you had learned them. Oh, wow.
Yeah, that was that’s my son calling, actually, that doesn’t happen very often and he has things going on and they want to push, pause.
All right. Well that wasn’t too much of a break for us. It’s instantaneous for you. And that’s the first time that’s ever happened where my son or somebody called in the middle of a recording. And I usually did not my phone, so it wouldn’t have rang, but that was fun. Right.
Neil Robinson: And that’s one of those things [00:30:00] like, you know, when you get that, that unexpected, like if my mom called me right now, I’d be like, that’s weird.
Why is she calling me? And you’d pick up, oh, I
Chris Gazdik: always do for my face. Cause they know what I’m doing generally. As a matter of fact, he’s funny. He always calls me now and he asked me, he’s like, are you in a session? Yeah. Cause I leave my stuff on for them to be available, to attack, to, you know, if need be, but text first buddy, if it’s not important.
So what we’re, what we were on is, is looking at these things that, you know, Dave Ramsey, I thought was. In the things that he highlighted and he’d done a lot of research on the factors and he, he looks at kids money, religion, and in-laws as the primary things that tend to cause marital problems and, and, and divorce.
So that was, I think pretty interesting. And I think I would agree with them. Those are hot button issues what I call flashpoints, but what I [00:31:00] really kind of feel like is that, that doesn’t really get at. What sustains relationships, if you re resolve those four things. So you talk about kids and you resolve those differences and you talk about money and you really get geared into like how we’re really going to join forces in life.
And you talk about religion and get in somewhere in square with what your acceptability is. Maybe you are Jewish and I’m Christian or you’re Muslim, and I’m Jewish it that can, people can be in a healthy relationship that way. That is absolutely possible. Back to your point, you know, you talk about these things and you work through them.
One family might really want their children raised in a tradition. The other one’s not so worried about it, so that can work. But even if you deal with these four things, I feel like there’s other things that get at what are the. What are the important ways that we’re going to live life together?
That’s why I thought a lot [00:32:00] about these and added some of those other ones that you kind of said. Yeah, well, they, they were fun to talk about. I mean, it was good. It was, it was an entertaining, you know, getting to know yet. But I think those getting to know you as let’s be purposeful about them and be on point or on, on, you know, do them on purpose.
So, so listen to a few of these that you mentioned. So I had the first things in my mind, kids, parenting tendency. That’s different than talking about just kids. What are your tendencies with parenting you’re going to get at your family culture? What you experienced, how you imagine raising kids. Of course, you know, having kids as I do a best plan, doesn’t work until you’re punched in the face.
Everybody who was George Foreman said dad or somebody
Neil Robinson: quite a bit of military. Yeah. maybe was a boxer, but they also have the best, the, something about that too, with the best laid plans, only word Tyson said it, probably the military thing like that too, you know? Yeah. That’s a great, you punched in the face.
It’s like, you know, and that’s what we [00:33:00] learned when you, when you, your wife’s pregnant, you go through all those pregnancy classes and like, you know, you make your plans and then you. Do the best you can. And again, these
Chris Gazdik: are kind of commitments that you’re laying out, just like the kid thing. You’re laying out the commitment of what are the strategies that I think of parenting.
How do I imagine this together? You’re, you’re at least starting out together in a way that’s not dramatically a problem for you. And that’s important because if this, this stuff really sends up red flags, then you’re, you’re really evaluating our ability to maneuver through really important life things, just on an emotional level.
So religious factors, I said financial goals, debt, and other financial realities, but I added like budgeting and I’m sure Dave Ramsey meant all those things, but it’s really important to begin talking about how you manage your money. Funny story that I got to tell when I got [00:34:00] together, I must’ve been engaged, but, or I think I was just about, no, I wasn’t engaged yet.
That’s the whole point of it. So I remember going to my girlfriend at the time in college house and I sat down, I was in her living room, just watching TV. I just kind of cocked her head over. And she’s like, when I got that question, I knew something was going on. So we both laugh about it. Now that I remember, I was like so much credit card debt.
Do you have just random one night? Yeah, she, I think she answered.
Neil Robinson: I mean, that’s, that’s a big, that’s a question because that becomes a big strain on both of you, you know, whether credit card or find it. Like some people will be like, all right, we’re together. Cause that’s the other question is, you know, nowadays is, do you do a joint bank?
Yeah, there’s different answers for separate, do you have separate safety? And so that’s, that’s one of those financial questions that to me is kind of a bigger thing. You know, how committed are you? Are we in a Jordan account? Do you have your own savings account? And [00:35:00] do you have your own checking account?
You know, I, I think for both Alicia and me, that the idea of us having separate accounts was kind of like, how committed are we really to this, if we’re not fully committing our financials, you know? And that’s just, that was for Alicia and me. Yeah. And of course I know there’s some people that like that independence still, even though they’re together that having that little bit of separateness is that safety blanket or comfort for them.
Chris Gazdik: It, and those are the things that you want to kind of work through when you’re getting, you know, into how is this going to work together. Again, these are sometimes very early on, how do you handle money? What do you do with, with, you know, you know, debt and, you know, comments and conversations and very purposeful things.
They, they really get. Kindness land out those commitments that early on. So when does a commitment begin in marriage? I mean, we beginning to answer the question early in a lot of ways financial goals, dreams, and passions, and, and your support in excitement and [00:36:00] encouragement for one another. Like what do you really dream?
What are you really passionate about? I think that’s part of the, getting to know somebody, but there are some times when people are afraid to share those things and you want to be purposeful about discussing them. I would, I would say Are you a planner or do you take things as they come in life? So your, your pattern with, I mean, you know, if you’re planning dates and planning events and vacations together, you, you begin to get a sense of that, but how will you tolerate the fact that I live by the seat of my pants and I have no plans.
Is that going to be something that’s chronically nagging at you? Can you understand that about me? And can you make a commitment to accept that piece of me question, right? I’m not asking you Neil, I’m taking, you’re taking share the effects of family that has had on your life. So you’re not just talking about your family, but sharing the effects of, of your primary life relationships in a way that you’re, you [00:37:00] know, something young people aren’t told that need to be told that if you’re listening to this show, you’re going to be told and a large road, a ways, and a lot of ways you’re, you’re marrying your spouse’s family.
Do you ever hear
Neil Robinson: that before? I don’t know. I, I know I married my, my wife’s family. She was a lot closer to hers and I was with mine. So you know that
Chris Gazdik: before you were married?
Neil Robinson: I don’t think so. I didn’t really care enough, but no one ever told
Chris Gazdik: us. Yeah. Here’s one sexual history. It’s funny that people are afraid to really engage in those discussions.
And it forces you to look at the fear that you have, you know, commitment and talking about these topics. Your sexual history is a really important part of your life, almost for a safety reason, let alone, how do we blend the realities there? And people are sometimes very, very ambivalent about sharing that.
Will you accept me if [00:38:00] you know this and this and this. And that, and that those
Neil Robinson: things about me. Yeah. But isn’t that also one of the, like the big, like,
Chris Gazdik: deciding to use it was like a play on like many, many sex partners. Okay.
Neil Robinson: I got ya. I got ya on that one, but no, I mean, that’s, that’s, isn’t that one of the things like the lack of intimacy, lack, lack of sex is a big driving factor in a lot of divorces too.
So, so not having that as the basis and not having that as, as one of the top, you know, we’ll have that to the fifth thing of Dave Ramsey’s. That was kind of that thing that becomes, could be said, you know? So that’s kind of an important thing to know, you know?
Chris Gazdik: Absolutely. But people are abashed are afraid to discuss yeah.
Residential plans. Really. It kind of goes to your hopes and dreams, how you prefer or engage in personal. That’s a really big one to ask, honestly, when you’re just dating, you know, because early on you’re, you’re kind of beginning to formulate these commitments, remember? [00:39:00] Right. And you’re dating it’s, everything’s great.
And we love spending enough time together and can’t get enough of each other, all that, you know, fun stuff. Sex is great, all that. But then when you really kind of get it pointedly, well, wait a minute. So when you w when you want to do just yourself, how does that work for you? People may not even think abandonment people.
What do you mean tie with myself? I don’t want any time with myself. We’re always together. Right. But if you’re asking that it’s kind of setting up like the norms of like, no, you know what, we’re getting married. We are two individuals becoming a one unit of a couple, but there’s still two individuals in that unit.
And it lays out like a very important part of your personal time is yours. Mine is mine. How do we manage.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. And that’s one of those things you have to discuss if you’re not living together, went back to that because that’s because if you only hang out, Hey, we’re going to go spend the weekend together.
We’re going to go do lunch or a day trip, whatever, when they leave, there’s more time that they spend with themselves. [00:40:00] You don’t get to see that. So therefore you have to talk about it because you don’t really see what their personal time is. It could be a big issue. You know, an abandonment person says, you know, hang out with me and be right next to me, 24 7 and golf was like, give me a, like an hour by myself.
I just need that day. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Well, you’re a mile to ban golfer if you’re looking for an hour, but
Neil Robinson: I need more of that, but I’m trying to try to water down. I’ve been married long enough to an impediment person to, to kind of be like, I can recharge relatively fast now.
Chris Gazdik: Good, good. He’s lost this. Engulfment garbage.
Neil Craig and I used to always have fun, just making fun of them for that stuff. Cause it is silly in some ways, but it’s also very, very real and super painful when you don’t really have these things understood. And we’re going to come to talk about expectations here shortly to an extent. And then I also, lastly, I really said norms for household tasks and stuff, but I want to move on.
I think you get the point, like how will [00:41:00] we handle life? What does this really look like? And it needs to be kind of laid out. Now, some people would say, why do you have to talk about this, Chris? Why do you have to make these agreements? Because if you don’t, I’ll jump to it. Now it’s out of order, but it fits.
If you don’t, you run in to all kinds of problems with expectations, right? I see this a lot. Massive resentments get developed, particularly after you’re married and these expectations haven’t really been discussed or agreed or understood. And under the surface, it just boils, it just cooks. It just, oh, it can be maddening.
And, and then that triggers the engulfment or the abandonment experiences and boom, boom, boom stuff starts clicking and it doesn’t feel real good. And it takes you by surprise, particularly if it’s been percolating for any level of. [00:42:00] So expectations, we could do a whole show on it, but did we did actually, yeah.
If you were not behind the mix, I’d ask you to pop that, that episode and see if you’re able to figure that out. Talk for a little bit. Cause that’s a really important one when we did a show on expectations.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. And, and I think one thing that expression too, one other thing I added to your list, Chris, especially with today’s society is politics.
I feel like in today’s society politics
Chris Gazdik: really
Neil Robinson: well. I mean, you look, I mean, even look at the abortionist or pro-choice versus pro-life as an
Chris Gazdik: important marriage component discussion. That’s surprising to me go further. Cause I would not think
Neil Robinson: that well, I’m a, like I said, the, the idea of a lot of politics with some of the policies and stuff that are in place.
If, if you two are completely opposite spectrums, I mean, just thinking about what kind of turmoil accurate are you talking about resentment? You know, this person thinks this. I think that how dare they think that. [00:43:00] Okay. And I feel like part of it is because of today’s society. There’s a, there’s a whole lot of stuff when it comes to politics.
And that, that I think that needs to be at least addressed, you know, watch, watch, sit down and watch CNN and Fox news and see how your other person reacts to each station. Jeez. Episode 1 0 2 managing expectations in marriage.
Chris Gazdik: Perfect. Episode 1 0 2. Thank you for that. Yeah. I’m just sitting here. I have this puzzle look on my Facebook live face.
I’m sure. Because I, or the YouTube, I think you’re probably right to a certain extent. It’s, it’s, it’s honestly, that’s almost a bit of a sad testimony to me though. Like I would not have thought that and I, I didn’t see that anywhere. I’ve honestly never heard of that mentioned in, in therapy, psychology world.
And, but, but I think you make a really good point because on some level that can [00:44:00] create anger points that you have to kind of deal with now. And that’s also going to change all throughout life, which these things do change. You know, these commitments, you, you, you do reevaluate them with different life events after you’re married, but goodness, that’s that’s weird.
I have to think more about
Neil Robinson: that. And going back to those, the one thing I do want to say about this is you don’t have to go through this whole list. I would say that having this list and knowing what’s important to you is what matters. If you don’t, if you don’t care about house household tasks, you don’t have to make a big deal about it.
But if you care about, you know, residential plans, because my family always lived in this area and I need to be in an apartment versus a townhome or a house, those are big deals. And so to me,
Chris Gazdik: Or I could never move away from my family.
Neil Robinson: The things that matter to you as what you need to talk about, you don’t have to hit all these things that those are what matter.
Chris Gazdik: So you’re really good point. And, and you’ll feel the energy about them. Yeah. Ones that aren’t that big of a deal you’ll probably already know, or you hadn’t [00:45:00] thought about because, you know but is it possible to have some of these that you have a lot of energy about and didn’t think about it? I think, yes.
Oh, definitely. Yeah. So that’s where you want to think about these lists at least then, and see like, what are some things that maybe I do. Alright, this is another technical difficulty interaction. The interruption, we shall we say what happened? I got to do it on live course. He plugs in the Jack to the wall and doesn’t plug in all of the equipment that needs the actual power.
So it just ran out of power. We don’t have
Neil Robinson: wireless power yet.
Chris Gazdik: Wireless power. Awesome. We need wireless power. So, so we have in LA, I’m not sure how much we’ll chop it up because we generally are genuine on the show. We don’t do a lot of editing. You may need to do an editing on this one. I don’t know. I
Neil Robinson: might cut off the end, depending on how I’ll have to go look at the audio and see where we were tried to keep it as clean as possible.
But yeah, we, things happen. People, you know,
Chris Gazdik: sorry. Somebody once told me he [00:46:00] was like, I heard a dog in the background, one. I’m like a dog. Really? It was Craig’s dog, dog. We literally heard his dog. It was awesome. So what I was finishing up and we’ll finish the section up on it is a really important component of setting up expectations.
We, we, I mentioned hopefully made a strong point to really help you see and understand, like we really have to have these expectations in place, which is why we talk about some of these things. There are two ways to really get at healthy and solid expectations because expectations get a bad rap. People think of them as like, that’s wrong.
That’s bad. You shouldn’t should expect anything from me. She just loved me. Accept me unconditionally. Well, if we make an agreement on something, then I’m going to expect that you and I follow through on said. Right. Otherwise, why don’t we have agreements? So it does create a certain [00:47:00] amount of reasonable expectations.
They can change. They can be renegotiated, but agreements are good ways to come at expectations and the other long-term norms. And I always use the simple example of we have for 72 weeks in a row, Sunday dinner together at two o’clock in the afternoon. And it’s Sundays tomorrow for the 73rd week. I can reasonably assume it two o’clock we’re going to have a dinner together.
Right. So long-term norms are also a reasonable, a lot of the rest of them, just art. And that’s where a lot of pain can be had when you haven’t made these commitments to marriage prior to being married. Right. Okay. So the little segment here that I wanted to do on what, what did, what, what is really. By a phrase that highlights the show.
I guess I forget the highlighted in the beginning act like you’re married [00:48:00] before you’re married. Right? There’s, there’s several aspects to that, but obviously it refers to the point before you become a fiance, because, well, it’s not obvious because after your fiance, you’re really in the hot and heavy, you are going to be my spouse.
That’s the commitment and extra level commitment that we made. So hopefully by then, you’re certainly already acting like you’re married, meaning this is genuine. This is being vulnerable. This is, you know, practicing honesty and really laying in some of the real true foundations that you want in a healthy, happy functioning, established relationship.
But. There’s also an important part about deal-breakers that need to be honored. You act like you’re being married before you’re married is a phrase that camp came to my mind as a bit of a Genesis for the show, because you’re going to be genuine about your deal breakers. [00:49:00] Like if you’re having a conversation about religion and you really do not want to be engrossed in a relationship with somebody that doesn’t believe Jesus Christ was like, Lord, they’re Jewish.
That’s a big deal for me. So that’s gotta be treated respectfully to yourself and, and, and can be a deal breaker. So if you’re acting like you’re married before you’re married, you won’t run into a deal breaker after you’re married. That’s just not a good sequential reality. And, and, but, but a big thing.
Being able to be real and vulnerable and genuine. That’s acting like you’re married. The more that you practice that you lose, the veneer, you lose the Mirage that sometimes happen, especially in early dating. You want to be real with this person. And in that, you’re [00:50:00] really in the, oh, the challenging aspect of being seen, really being seen by this person.
You’re going to spend the rest of your life with Neil. I don’t know if I can convey how intimidating that really is. You know? So when we’re talking about this idea of acting like you’re married before you’re married, Do you, do you get a grasp on the super important? He take it even from an emotion focused standpoint, right?
Abandonment and engulfement. Can you really be vulnerable with the insecurities that you have, the fears that you have, the freak outs that you’re gonna be struggling with for the rest of your life? Like I do remember talking about being afraid that she would leave me. I was very, very direct about that. And, and I’m glad that I was because I put it out there and it’s something that has an abandonment side of the [00:51:00] equation struggle with today.
Right. For sure. So
let me go on a little bit further. You’ll you’ll, you’ll learn how to disagree. You’ll learn how to deal with conflicts. I do get nervous when young couples say, you know, oh, we just don’t fight.
Neil Robinson: Have any disagreements, you haven’t talked, you haven’t really had deep conversations. You haven’t really done anything yet.
Chris Gazdik: Exactly. Not much sustenance. And that gives me concern as a therapist. Cause cause conflict is going to happen. In fact, it needs to happen. It’s a natural thing to happen. It’s a real and vulnerable and genuine reality. That’s a part of a close relationship. And so there’s mean you get the idea, like there’s a lot to this act like you’re married before you.
Stuff.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. And I think that’s something that’s interesting. You know, when you, you know, [00:52:00] you talked about the principles you have, but then the reality of is how do you really interact? You know, how do you really go back and forth? How do you, you know, like you have in the notes, how do you be vulnerable?
How do you ask them for help? How do you, you know, do you go to them when you’re having a bad day? You know? And this is, like I said before, this is just, how do you interact when you’re at your lowest point? How do you act when you’re at your highest point? I like
Chris Gazdik: that. How do you act when you’re at your lowest point is a big highlight.
Neil Robinson: Go, go ahead. Well, I also think, how are, how do they react when you’re at your lowest point? Yeah, because that’s a huge thing, you know, you think about it, you know, cause there’s a relationship there’s ups and downs. You had a bad day, you had a bad day at work. Fired you wrecked your car, you blah, blah, blah, whatever happened, you know, are they, are they there to comfort you and help you push past it?
Are they, are they babying you and not really Lauder you to move past it? Are they cracking you? Yeah, I think are they critical? You know, so, and that’s, I think this is real, of course, I’d never thought [00:53:00] about that before. And like, really, if you act like you’re married, you’ve really have those conversations.
If you really experience those life things together, and you really experienced the ups and downs, when you get married, it’s not, that’s when being married, shouldn’t change as much as
Chris Gazdik: that’s the goal, right? That’s the goal. I mean, you know, you’ve been married for 18 years, like you say, so you see these things.
I wonder, I don’t know you and I are probably too long married to get back to that and know what the experience is. Question for the audience and the feedback comments on the show platforms when you’re younger and newly. Wedding I N G is this, can you see, can you get your mind there? Like, I’d be curious to talk to a, a person who’s been dating someone for two years and considering getting married right now to see like how, what framework of mind can you possibly be at?
Because some of it you just can’t be, be prepared for. No, you can’t, it’s impossible. You [00:54:00] cannot be married. Let me say this very clearly to, Ooh, this is good. Might even be a quote. You decide you can not be married until you’re married. Is that quotable? Because I think that is true. Or you can’t act like you’re married until you’re married.
That’s another reality. What to think about that button, but, but I think those are true statements. Never. Nevertheless.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. And I, and I think, you know, when you get married, you do, when you are with that person 24 7, it changes the dynamic because you get to see those, those 2:00 AM moments that, you know, you didn’t know really happened, or you get to see when they do have a bad day and they have that nervous breakdown.
Normally it’s like, you go on a date later and they have that time to deal with it. You, you see it and you deal with that rawness, you know, good or bad, you know? And so I definitely think that’s, like I said, you, you can do your best. You can vote your conversation. You [00:55:00] can start spending as much time as you can together.
But until you are, like you said, until you actually get married and spend time together, You really don’t get the fullness of what that person’s really like.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Which leads you to believe well, should we move in together then to get to that point? No, no, no. And, and, and I think that’s, that’s some of the thinking, but again, remember you’re, you’re still not really getting accurate information.
It gives people sleep over. We have sleepovers when we were dating don’t we Lord, sometimes I was, you know, we were at each other’s house more than we were alone out of our house, you know, but but, but you’re really not getting the accurate still even then, same information. Let me, let me give you the idea.
That is the ultimate goal here. The ultimate goal for being married and acting like you’re married before you’re married and answering the question. When do commitments begin here is the golden goal, right? [00:56:00] Being able to get to the point where you can say truly genuinely anything that comes to your mind and still feel safe to the other person, right?
Like that is the golden egg in the space between two people that we’re trying to strive for. It’s an ideal, it’s the dogma. If you will, I’ve learned a new word or how to use it today from Neil it’s, it’s a centerpiece that we’re all trying to strive towards that. I think we probably just can’t get to now.
I don’t want that to depress you. I want you to be realistic because that’s a standard man. That’s a big standard saying anything that’s on your mind to your spouse or our fiance or boyfriend. Anything that comes to your mind and still feel safe in the space between you and them. That’s
Neil Robinson: tough. That is tough.
And I think what I’ve learned in my time [00:57:00] as that, I felt like I can say anything to my wife. I just need to know when to say it.
Chris Gazdik: Timing is important
Neil Robinson: timing, and that’s what you get with your relationships and your timing thing. You learn well as an abandonment person. Yeah. Thank you for that. And go from it.
We kind of think about it and processing like, oh no, wait, hang on. Okay. I’m good. Yeah, maybe it was like, we gotta do it now. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Got to get it out. It’s true. We suck at timing. Timing. Listen, if you’ve listened to the show, it is a fun time. I think I want a taxi us in for landing. Get out of here. Neil, do you have closing thoughts or questions or anything?
Neil Robinson: Just, you know, really be, I think the way you wrapped up with that ultimate goal, I think you need to, you need to keep that in mind when you’re dating someone that that is really what you want to do. And if you don’t feel comfortable, if you’re not at a point that you can get to that where you can feel comfortable saying, like I [00:58:00] said, maybe you don’t say it when you want to say it, but if you don’t feel comfortable saying the things that come to your mind, that, that matter to you, you need to just question your commitment or question what you need to do to get to that point, because that’s a good quote point because that’s that’s, cause sometimes it’s like, we’re not there yet, but let’s have these conversations and, and don’t, don’t avoid the conversations.
It’s,
Chris Gazdik: by the way, we’re growing together as we’re discussing these things. I mean, You have holes as a young person in your experience and you’re growing. I mean, if you have all these things figured out, man, you’re, you’re pretty well adjusted. And I don’t know many people that are that well adjusted and, and
Neil Robinson: until you get that other person there, it doesn’t matter how adjusted you are.
They’re going to throw you off kilter. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: absolutely. So listen, dating is a wonderful time. It’s a fun time. It’s a time where you really get to explore. Yourself in context as well with another person and explore being [00:59:00] accepted and how you tolerate being accepted and practicing, accepting as unconditionally as possible.
This other person, I mean, there’s a lot going on. It’s beautiful time. It’s a fun time. And it’s also an important time that sets up a relationship such as with marriage that is intended to be forever a permanent decision. And I really want to highlight spending the invested time where the premarital counseling experience, or at least with these questions and these thoughts that you really genuinely and openly strive towards what we all are striving for that are married.
To be able to talk about these things and discuss them in a safe way, saying anything that comes onto your mind. It’s a tough standard. It’s one that we can all strive to get closer than we are to today. And that’s the goal. Not perfection. Every relationship has growing spots to imperfect people, getting together to create an imperfect union.
It’s a wonderful way to think about being or becoming married. Hope. This has been helpful. Thanks for [01:00:00] hanging with us. Take care, and we will see you next week.