As the show approaches 200 episodes, Chris decides it is time to talk about how procrastinating. Producer Neil gives his insights as the master procrastinator as they talk about reasons why someone procrastinates, and what it’s like for those that struggle with it. During the research for the show, Chris realized that even though he never addresses it during therapy he noticed how much your mental health state affects it.
Tune in to see Procrastination Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Listen for the following takeaways from the show:
- As a current event, we discuss the Alex Jones verdict and the fight against disinformation. The Daily podcast talks about this more in-depth.
- All the information out there is hard to balance what is real and we talk about how we validate it.
- We FINALLY get to talking about what procrastination is.
- Procrastination is not a time management problem, but an emotional regulation problem.
- We blow up the stigmas around those that procrastinate.
- Those brings up more examples of someone’s problem with emotional regulation that led to procrastination.
- What are some of the reasons you procrastinate?
- There are diagnostics realities in mental health that lead to procrastination: Depression, Anxiety, OCD, and ADD.
- How do you manage procrastination to be able to get your tasks done.
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Episode #199 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hi there everybody. This is Chris Gazdik with Through a Therapist’s Eyes. We are sitting here as we were just talking. Mr. Cloninger is with us and Mr. Neil is with us this week as well. Adam, what episode do you recall this being what number? This is 1 99. You realize it because we were just talking about it.
Neil Robinson: And you looked, I knew paper plus to 200, but I know what’s that Neil, Andy looked at the paper.
Oh, I, I saw the eyeball show. Well, I mean, I
Adam Cloninger: was thinking it was 1 99. I was like, yes, 1 99, but ,
Chris Gazdik: it is the last episode. Like we’ve done it. Not the last episode ever. We are endeavoring further for sure. We are getting ready to make a, a pretty big announcement on [00:01:00] episode 200.
I’m super excited about it, really. And truly we, we we’re, we’re make, we’re taking some steps to improve what we do. I think in, in some really cool ways. How, how can we do the teaser? I, I feel weird. Neil, when I talk to you, I gotta turn my head with this.
Neil Robinson: Just like, act like you’re looking at the screen and just pretend that’s me.
I was
Chris Gazdik: thinking that’s what I was gonna do. Yeah. But how should we tease that? Any, any other cool way we can tease
Neil Robinson: it. We’re gonna get more insights from more therapists.
Chris Gazdik: okay. I like that more insights from more therapists. So that through a therapist’s eyes is not just mine. Exactly. All right. I
Adam Cloninger: like that a lot.
You don’t change the title, be like
Neil Robinson: apostrophe S yeah. We’re gonna do S apostrophe S apostrophe SS. You know, what’s
Chris Gazdik: funny. I thought about that, man, but I’m like, dude, I don’t, I don’t know if we could do that. There’s so much in a name change that would screw a lot of things up.
Neil Robinson: we’ll just keep it the way it is.
Cuz we’re kind of all a singular kind of thing. So, plus I don’t understand the, the English language. I don’t know exactly [00:02:00] when to put the posture on which side at what time, so, oh, I got this. Courtney’s
Chris Gazdik: gonna be proud of me man. It’s it’s it’s when a name like Chris, maybe I know because it’s my name.
Just put the post at the end. This. So, so when you name or the proper noun ends in an S you just put the Poste when you do not have an S you have to put the apostrophe S and I’m certain I’m. Right.
Neil Robinson: But then what did you do with plurals? Cuz therapist’s eyes. So would we move? What would be just an would we just, would we
Chris Gazdik: just shift over?
Yeah, no, it’d be just an S apostrophe. Right?
Neil Robinson: So yeah, so we could, we could change the logo. That’s all it is. It’s just the logo change. is it just the logo change? Cause the domain just has it that way, but no. So did the asthma therapists. through, through a therapist’s eyes. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. Well we could digress, but yes.
Well, there’s gonna be some changes coming. That is a bunny
Chris Gazdik: trail, for sure. Isn’t it? I am Chris gask. He is Neil. He is Adam. And we’ve got an awesome episode, I think, on a topic that catches hopefully your eye, because it is something that we all do. Procrast procrastinate in the, the subtitle there is, [00:03:00] you know, do you wanna stop this?
Because I think that people get very, very frustrated about the realities of how this goes. And I think you’re really gonna enjoy like, The different angle that I, and I haven’t really thought about a lot about procrastination clinically until I was doing this show prep and really thinking about it.
I, I really landed on some fascinating things about how and why this happens and really myths about it. So it, it, it, I think you’re gonna enjoy this one, got that book out, rediscovering the emotions and becoming your best self. It isn’t a new book, but it’s still a good book. How that, how about that?
Does that, that come out? Right? Sounds good. Yeah. Welcome to us through a therapist eyes where you get personal insights directly from a therapist in your own home and personal time in your car. Realize it’s not to delivery therapy services in any way. We still got contact at through a therapist’s eyes.com where you can contact us, interact with us.
We love engaging you. Neil, I gotta talk to you. We got a really cool Facebook live email that was asking me questions, and I’m actually gonna jump on the phone, I think, [00:04:00] with them to kind of help. You know, with some thoughts. So that was cool. So people do it, you do it and we’ll all learn the human emotional experience.
Let’s figure this thing out together is what we do endeavor to do. So let’s talk about procrastination. I’m not gonna put you on the spot. Neil, I’m gonna ask you some questions and stuff. And I wanted to be a big part of this particular episode for a nice conversation that the three of us will have.
But and, and the reason why I won’t put you on spot is, cause this is something that we all do. This is, this is definitely not just you, but you were the Genesis of the show. Do you wanna introduce what happened and why we, why we did this, this gen, the Genesis of
Neil Robinson: this? You don’t understand, like if you look at procrastination in the urban dictionary, my picture’s next to it.
I literally like, I, I am the master of procrastination. I am the master procrastinator. So if that’s the case, I
Chris Gazdik: want to, I wanna give you a direct compliment because. I’m on air. I’m gonna give you the compliment that [00:05:00] as you have worked closely with, through a therapist, eyes, we have gotten so much done and I am publicly very appreciative.
Y’all don’t know all that he does on the back end of this, this thing, he, he makes a lot of stuff happen. So that’s three y’alls.
Adam Cloninger: Wow. Three Y’s. And you actually said sitting while ago, too, sitting, sitting we’re sitting here. Is that a Southern thing too? Yeah. Sitting,
Neil Robinson: sitting when you take that G out.
Yeah. You got a little, oh man. No, I appreciate, I try to call you out and
Adam Cloninger: interrupt you. Just I had to, I
Chris Gazdik: appreciate it. how do you set it up? Neil? Do what? set it up. How did we come?
Neil Robinson: Probably just because you kept saying, where’s my stuff gonna get done. And I was like, I’ll get it’s on my list. I’m working on it.
I’m working. I’ll get to it. Yeah. I’ll get to it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so, I mean, it’s just the reality that yeah, there are certain things that I have struggles with just knocking out, you know, just making those, those hard choices and just, well, for me, it’s a hard choice for a lot of people. It’s like, oh, I’ll just get it done.
And me I’m like, well, let me do this first. [00:06:00] Ah, crap. I got something else. And I move on to the next thing. So that was part of the thing we brought up. It was like, this is my natural behavior, my natural tendency that I’ve adapted into of, I just put things. until I absolutely have to do them.
Chris Gazdik: You know, it’s funny that as you’re talking, when I was looking at these things, I, I, I don’t know if I was honest with you on the Facebook live before we started these mics for the show, or, or if I just said it during the show, I haven’t thought a lot to be honest with you.
I have not thought a lot about the clinical applications of procrastination in a therapy relationship. It’s, it’s not something that I’ve really done a lot with, you know, like in, in my office. So maybe I should be. I hear you saying things that in my show, prep and looking and thinking about this topic, that was that I’ve, I’ve thought about and, and [00:07:00] began to really, so as we go through, like, and you just said a couple of ’em, that’s why I’m tripping out a little bit right now, but we’ll get to it.
We’ll we’ll get to it as we go.
Neil Robinson: I told you I’m the king of procrastination. I know all about it. and I know how to do it. Well, see, I was wondering where you can go
Adam Cloninger: with this procrastination thing, cuz I, I mean, sometimes I don’t think of something being procrastination.
Chris Gazdik: Well, what do you mean? Because that might be well, I mean, some of what I was just alluding to.
Yeah.
Adam Cloninger: That that’s what I’m getting at, cuz you’re saying you haven’t really thought about from a clinical standpoint and I’m kind of curious what is, how is procrastination a mental health issue? Because.
Chris Gazdik: And I’m gonna tell you, I now believe that it is last week. I may have agreed that it isn’t.
Adam Cloninger: I can
Neil Robinson: probably tell you, well, I’m not saying this.
I can probably tell you how I’ve I’ve done a lot of self-evaluation, so, okay. We’ll go through the show and I’ll give my take. And there’s been some breakthroughs in my house over the last week or so odd, which is kind of weird. Oh cow. So but yeah, I I’m intrigued by this cuz, but I think dealing with procrastination is actually something you should address in mental health, because [00:08:00] about investing in your time, the things that they’re doing or not doing a lot of it is a sign of procrastination and dealing with those types of things.
So,
Chris Gazdik: okay. I’m gonna give this teaser and then I wanna do a current event unbeknownst to me. We have, I have been dealing with it in my therapy relationships, but I didn’t really realize that what I was doing greatly helps the quote unquote problem of procrastination. That’s my that’s my teaser there, but let’s do a quick current event thing that I, I wanted to get to, I thought was, was pretty important.
You know, oh, and I need to get used to saying the date, you know, for our show in our, in our opening what is today? This is August the 11th, right? August the 11th, 2022. If
Neil Robinson: you give the date, then they’ll know how much I procrastinated to put in the show out. So you don’t, don’t have to say
Chris Gazdik: the date. I can’t save you brother.
I I’m I’ve I something I wanna start doing,
Adam Cloninger: just say the day it was recorded was this, I can’t say when Neil put
Chris Gazdik: it [00:09:00] out or when it will ever come out there was a verdict do either of, you know, much about this whole Alex Jones thing. Do you know that name? Cuz I really kind of didn’t to be honest with you, I
Neil Robinson: knew a little bit, I, I know of him.
I know kind of the, the The narrative around him and what’s kind of the big deal with him, but I don’t follow him cuz that’s just not, he’s not my cup of tea to watch, but I, I know enough about him and I know the thing you mentioned in here and what he talked about, what’s gone on recently. Right. And so, yeah, I’m, I’m relatively aware of it.
But I’m not an expert.
Chris Gazdik: And I don’t think anybody, honestly, anybody really is an expert on the reason why I wanted to do this current event with this because I, I have begun to maintain that this is a brand new experience in the history of mankind. So Adam, you do you know nothing about this dude?
Mm-hmm yeah. So this is a dude that evidently has got a some would say pretty inflammatory podcast. It’s predicated [00:10:00] basically on a whole lot of my brain’s just farting. What’s the word? Conspiracy theories. Yeah. Yeah. This is, this is a big conspiracy theory podcast. That’s pretty big. This is not a small show.
This is a, he’s got a large following, lots of money involved. There’s a, this is a big, this is a big deal. But he just. Pretty much nailed in the litigation process that’s been going on where the families of the Sandy hook school shootings were awarded a. Well, they, he had to give him like, I don’t know, three, $4 million.
It was, it
Neil Robinson: was like 47 million total, total
Chris Gazdik: for all the families. Yeah. I, I saw that after I, I got this, by the way. This is on the daily podcast dated 8, 8 22. Well, if you want to dive more into, we we’re going with, cause we’re going in a different direction, but, but anyway, yeah, he, he, he was, the families were awarded a significant amount of money because he basically was kind of claiming that Sandy Oak never happened.
These [00:11:00] kids okay. Okay. Weren’t killed. Yeah. It was a made up fake news folks, actors and stuff like that. They, yeah. And there was a thing where the, these were the families that came forward were consensual actors to portray what happened that never happened in this kind of thing. And I don’t know, I wasn’t there to see if anything happened, but it certainly seemed like it.
And they were vindicated and awarded this, this huge penalty. So what this does in my mind, and we do in the states, you know, we’ve got a lot going on right now, yet again, with all the political stuff, that’s just been a bombshell, you know, with, with Trump and Republicans and Democrats. And we’ve talked about on this show before laptops, laptops, Biden, that’s true.
You know, there’s so much going on again and people are so riled up again. And this, this whole idea with fake news and dissemination of information, how we get our information, what goes on that, that just blows my mind with all the [00:12:00] conspiracy theories and I find major mental health impact. And that’s my take major mental health impact.
I’m gonna remind you again, what do I been doing this since 95? I, I say it’s true. I have never experienced these types of world events short of maybe nine 11 coming into my therapy office as regularly as they are. And I I’m amazed at that. And I think that, so you’re
Adam Cloninger: having people bringing in current events, unlike, you know, telling you they’re like, I don’t know what to do about this.
Yes,
Chris Gazdik: yes. Like a lot. And the, the, the, the levels of anxiety that are about this and the, the depression and the, the angst that people have. I mean, the stress threshold that people are carrying, I just have not seen that particularly specifically, even with, with politics. So what, what do you think so far, [00:13:00] any thoughts that you want to.
Neil Robinson: I, I think a lot of it’s a, a breakdown of trust. You don’t have that, like we talked about there’s no Walter Cronkite that gives you that news. Yeah. You know, just news, right? Just opinion. Just the news. Just we’re. Yes. So, so you have that breakdown of that establishment that people trust, whether it was the news or the politicians, like no matter what side you are, where you are, there’s so much information out now.
Right. And that’s part of the issue. And I think that’s part of where you’re going is like the there’s so much information that you don’t know what’s real, and what’s not, you know, the whole disinformation, misinformation there’s there’s sites. There are sites built just to say, if something’s a valid news site or not.
And even that is becoming questionable. Like there’s, I think, as being questionable, but it’s just one of those things. It’s just, but it’s more relevant now. People are learning like, wait, This, you have a source now that can prove something false, like easily before was like, something happens. Oh, everyone believes it.
And then a year later, oh wait, we found out it was not [00:14:00] truth. Finally, that whistle blower gets out of that article gets out. It’s just, there’s so much now that when something comes out, there’s something else to go against it. Whether, whether ease either side’s true. It’s like, you don’t even know what to believe.
I I’m gonna
Chris Gazdik: make a statement. And it’s, it’s a comedy statement basically. Okay. But it’s also a pointed statement that comes from my clinical view question, mark, have we become psychotic about the news? And I’m gonna say yes. Yeah, yes. Yeah. We are psychotic. And what I mean by that, with my. World and with my brain is psychosis really just is having a hard time.
In reality testing, you don’t know what’s reality and what’s not. That’s literally what we experience in the mental health field with schizophrenia and severe bipolar disorder and situations that people find themselves and they become psychotic. We’ve become psychotic about misinformation.
Adam Cloninger: And ignorance is a bliss.
So , [00:15:00] I mean, I mean, you know, I, I go ahead. Yeah. Oh, I mean, you know, it can be that just not knowing about it is a good thing, but now it’s not only the stuff you know about you don’t know is real or not. Right.
Neil Robinson: Like 10 years ago, I tried to get into politics and about a day into it, I’m like, I’m done I can’t even, this was 10 years before it got really bad, but I’m like trying to start researching, like, I’m gonna do the smart stuff.
I’m look it up. I’m like,
Adam Cloninger: no way. Holy crap. Like I
Chris Gazdik: said, and, and the thing that I’ve been aware of in dealing with this issue in current events through the last couple years, with this show, I’m landing on the ideas that this is a brand new reality for the history of man. Because if you think about before 2001, we never really had the abilities that we have now, where basically all of us, for the most part around the world, Can watch a real time developing reality, such as we experienced with nine 11 around the world, [00:16:00] right?
Literally people are watching in real time, these developments that we’re figuring things out as we go. And I think most people around the world remember exactly what they were doing or what happened on that day of nine 11 that I, I, I’m not great with other cultures. I’m egocentrically stuck in the states, but I, I I’ve talked to enough people to have a sense that, like, I think that’s a true statement, even, you know, in third world areas where internet wasn’t readily available, there was still pretty much real time reality with nine 11.
That could be wrong about that. But I think that’s a true statement. So I don’t think we know how to handle. I don’t think we know how to handle it. And some of the thoughts that I have with this, and we need to taxi in a little bit with this, but guys, but this, this often relates to, you know, the fascination people get with conspiracy.
It’s dramatic. It’s the car wreck that everyone has to rubberneck and look at. There’s no reason why we have an open highway in front of us, [00:17:00] a wreck at 0.0 and miles of traffic behind us on
Adam Cloninger: the opposite side of the road going the other direction
Chris Gazdik: of meeting scenes,
Adam Cloninger: right? Yes.
Chris Gazdik: We all had this emotional experience of watching the conspiracy.
We’re drawn to it, the train wreck. And we have to manage that. The fact that this feeds off of fear is what bothers me, maybe the most, or at least. At the top of my list, it’s just feeding on people’s fear and it works. People love to watch sexual things. They love to watch freaky things. They love to watch freaky, fearful things.
I mean, look at what Neil, you’re the techy guy. What, what, what kind of websites get the most clicks
Neil Robinson: adult websites by
Chris Gazdik: it’s not even close?
Neil Robinson: No, [00:18:00] I think the last things is like the top five most visited were some sort of an adult website, like, and you’re looking at millions of bunk clicks. It’s it’s crazy.
How, how sad it
Chris Gazdik: is. Yeah. And fear mongering, I guess you could say fear driven topics work to get people’s attention and it’s it’s it’s not necessarily good. So we struggle with this. Yeah. You mentioned Neil about trust or maybe you did Adam. Somebody did. It it erodes trust is one of the main effects in the last 20 years in fundamental established groups.
And I’m concerned about that as it’s going on. And the last major point that I’ll think I’ll make is I’m amazed at the limited ability. And this is actually psychologically studied the limited ability we’ve studied it, I think mostly in, in kids more than adults, but be interesting to see what would happen with [00:19:00] adults there too.
Our limited ability to discern what is an opinion and what is a fact people do. Discern that well, kids are horrible at it in comparison to the way we used to study that.
Neil Robinson: Well, people have to learn how to handle their emotions, to actually get to a point where they can under even process the facts.
It’s what it’s all about. Well, I mean,
Adam Cloninger: you’ve also heard people who like they dos phone feelings instead of facts. That’s what
Chris Gazdik: it’s all about. And how well do we, as cultures and societies around the world handle our mental health. I would argue not so great. not, not so great. No, if they don’t
Neil Robinson: only listen to our podcast more, we maybe we could figure it out together, figure it out
Chris Gazdik: together.
I know. I love it. Right. Well done. Let’s switch to procrastination. Can we do it later?
Neil Robinson: Next show 2 99.
Adam Cloninger: That’s awesome. Let’s just continue on this topic and we’ll do procrastination next time.
Chris Gazdik: Oh man. When the, when the pressure’s on, but, but no, we gotta do the update guys for 200, 200 is [00:20:00] a big announcement show.
So we gotta get to it. Listen seriously, the definition, the act of delaying or postponing something. I mean, that’s basically what procrastination is, but, but more involved than that, I was seeing some things and, and, and set my brain up for this, putting off tasks until the last minute or pass their deadline, which is Neil would what you were talking about.
I mean, I’m glad you said that. Why, what, why?
Adam Cloninger: Well, because, well, I’m an engineer, right? So I’m then typically engineers, what they do is they, they plan and they. they calculate and they precise
Neil Robinson: and reprioritize based on valid reasons. Yeah.
I
Adam Cloninger: mean, and sometimes we use, you know, exact data, dependable data, guesswork, questionable data, whatever.
But the thing, the goal is to have something that goes perfect as
Chris Gazdik: possible. Okay. That makes sense. But
Adam Cloninger: no [00:21:00] matter how much you plan, sometimes you just gotta throw to dart because you can’t plan everything right now. If you just keep on putting something off, because you’re thinking there’s something else, you know, I, I can see that, but
Chris Gazdik: is that why this week has been stressful?
Well’s what’s my, my, cause I think that applies a little
Adam Cloninger: bit, so that’s, that’s why I was getting at, because I don’t, I personally don’t think I procrastinate. Right. And I think there might be someone else that I know might think I do. Who me? No, not you. Oh. But I think I have reasons for the thing was I do.
Neil Robinson: So I. I guess you have to dig to look at the why. Every reasons. Yeah. And then I, I could probably tell you if it’s really procrastination or not, cuz I, I probably know. I, I can tell if the reasons are valid or not. Cuz I know the, the stuff I say when it’s not valid
Adam Cloninger: so, I mean, if somebody just says I don’t, I still don’t wanna do it right now.
No, that’s not a reason. If, I mean, if there is, if there’s, if there’s a,
Neil Robinson: but, but the skill for procrastinator will make it sound like a valid reason.
Chris Gazdik: E exactly. And, and that’s, what’s [00:22:00] interesting as we get along through this conversation that I think is going to be pretty interesting because it blows up some of the ways that we, that we think about like what causes this stuff honestly, and it gets, yeah, it gets at what you’re kind of saying, like, come on, I don’t procrastinate, but then there’s other people that see you as procrastinating.
Yeah. You know, she sees this and she sees that it’s a shame. Right, right. I figured that out. So very well mind had some cool things. We got the link on there, but they had an interesting explanation of, of really. The meat and why this really started to get my clinical brain really thinking about this.
So an irrational delay of tasks, despite potential negative consequences is some of the word combos that they used with this, but they, but it got more interesting. And this is where my brain really got [00:23:00] to be thinking about it. So the article, I, I think you’ll be interested if you check out our, our show notes and you click on the links and do your own check in with stuff.
I think that this is one that you’ll really enjoy their title was why you procrastinate. And then in quotes, they have, it has nothing to do with self control. And this was actually, oh, this one was a New York times article. That’s interesting. So in bold procrastination is an emotion regulation problem, not a time management problem.
that to me is kind of a game changer to me that flips around a lot of what we’ve even talked about to, to this point in our conversation. What does it mean to you, Adam? When you say an emotion regulation problem, what is emotion regulation? [00:24:00] Well,
Adam Cloninger: I keep thinking about the me trying to relate to what procrastination is.
Cause in my mind, there’s things that I do that there’s those reasons for all of it. And maybe. As Neil said, maybe, maybe I’m just a, a skilled procrastinator
Chris Gazdik: or that it is rationalization. I mean, we rationalize our behavior all the time when it comes to emotional matters. I mean, we, we talked a lot about the the implicit bias conversation.
We talked a lot about how we will rationalize what we implicitly subconsciously believe and bloom. We bloom all kind of amazing thoughts to support our bias. That’s already in place. We, we rationalize our behavior based outta shame. You know, I’m not a bad person. This is why I do this. And this is why I do that, which is a lot of rationalization.
I mean, rationalizing things is a huge part of our psychology that we do all the time, sometimes [00:25:00] destructively, but sometimes not as destructively, but arguably very normally and very regularly, honestly, So emotion regulation is basically regulating the emotion that you have when you’re managing your emotion poorly.
You’re probably gonna stumble into procrastination more than when you manage your emotion and your emotion, your whole emotional self. When you manage that. Well, you’re probably gonna be procrastinating a whole lot less. What do you think in Neil so far as you hear that emotion regulation? Cause to me that’s a big, it is it’s game changer.
I
Neil Robinson: mean, well, that goes back to some of the breakthroughs I talked about or I teased at the early part is, you know, as I’ve looked at my last few years, I’ve started understanding why I do the things I do and thinking about it deeper. It is about, instead of getting the task done, it’s about. you know, doing [00:26:00] something else that, so I don’t have to deal with those hardships or deal with those conversations or deal with those
Chris Gazdik: tasks avoidance.
Neil Robinson: Right. And, and I’m using it to, instead of managing my emotions of, oh, I’ll just go do it, get it done and push through. I’ll go watch this YouTube video. I’ll go play this game or I’ll go do this or go do that. And it’s and it makes or something else productive. No, yeah. I like to, I’d like to think that, but no, and this is, this is my personal, based on this conversation.
This, I relate to this a lot because I know how, when I have to get things done and I don’t do it, I’m looking for that dopamine fix that video game, that YouTube video, that interesting. Yeah. Scrolling, you know, that whole internet scrolling and all the news comes up, you know, it’s a, it’s all that. This is for me.
No, Adam’s better than I am. Of course, obviously , you know, he’s over there saying like I never, cause he doesn’t procrastinate today. I know I have like, I do everything exactly, unless I have a valid reason, a hundred percent reason to do it. So, [00:27:00] but I know cuz I’ve gone down a, a slippery slope over the last few years that it’s, my procrastination had gotten worse and worse and worse and working corporate for a while and actually made it worse because there was always a reason to not get things done, which was kinda like, okay, well this manager said don’t do it yet.
and that was one of the things that kind of opened up that, that, that door for me, that just without emotional regulation or just, I just gotta get these things done, move on the next thing. But see, everybody always
Adam Cloninger: has something else to do or there’s always something that needs to be done. So I mean like, and you know how I am about giving examples.
There’s been times where I went kayaking with Chris when I needed to repair my deck. Is that procrastination? I don’t think so. Did you initiate it? Initiate the going
Chris Gazdik: kayak, the event.
Neil Robinson: Did, did you go to do your deck? And then you said, Hey, Chris, call him up. Let’s go. Let’s go kayak right now. Or did you coordinate it?
And then you still had to do have that engagement. I don’t coordinate
Adam Cloninger: anything to [00:28:00] avoid doing something else that needs to be done. It just kind, it just happens. Just happens.
Chris Gazdik: I mean, it just happens,
Neil Robinson: but, but that’s, that’s the idea that if you like, Hey, I gotta do my, my deck. Let me go, let me go see if someone wants to go kayak with me cuz I really don’t want to do it.
No, I don’t do that. That’s that’s the difference versus well, you initiate it to get out of work versus you making plans with someone or they initiate it with you. Like I gotta do this, but he wants to go hang out. And my friendship with Chris is more important right now than my deck, cuz it’ll be there tomorrow.
Okay. That
Chris Gazdik: that’s a factor, but I wouldn’t make that a differentiator. And, and here’s why cuz the follow. Statement to procrastination is an emotion regulation problem, ideally, or basically we procrastinate because of a bad mood. And, and, and so if you’re in a bad mood, you’re emotionally wore down, you are gonna be way more likely to say, oh, heck yeah, Chris brother, I’ll go.
I’ll go [00:29:00] kayaking. That’s that’s a great idea. Instead of no, man, I’m, I’m really charged up. I’m getting my deck done and I’m doing this. Think about this. We’ve all had these days. I mean, you, you have these Saturdays or whatever. For me, I do a lot on the weekend. You know how you get out there. And you’re like, boom, I got to my car wash and I got my garage organized.
And I went out to my building and I completed the, the, the project that I had with organizing my screws and getting stuff together with my lawn mower. I mean, this was a great day. It was super productive. You, you know, those days, right? Yeah. And it’s 12
Adam Cloninger: o’clock you take a nap and everything’s
Chris Gazdik: great. Right.
It’s did that day start out when you were in a horrible mood. Probably not that day started out when you were feeling good, you’re energized, you’ve got motivation and energy and interest and you’re, you’re prioritizing yourself. Well, right. Mm-hmm, that leads to being really productive in a, in a period of time.
And I never really kind of realized that, but does that make sense? Why [00:30:00] you, yeah. Wouldn’t make that a differentiator.
Neil Robinson: Neil, I think a little bit,
Chris Gazdik: right. I was going through this and thinking these things and I was like, wow, this is, this is really a different perspective. So, so does, does procrastination come down to, to managing your mood, to managing the way that you feel to being in touch with the realities of your life at any given point?
When you’re wore out and you’re stressed out and you’ve had a tough week, we might be able to do a study with this and it’s probably been done. I. And not aware that that would lead to an unproductive weekend, probably a high percentage of the time. Cause you’re starting a week out, out you’re wore out.
Neil Robinson: But is
Adam Cloninger: that always bad? Cause sometimes you might just need downtime because of the things that cause the bad
Chris Gazdik: mood. Sure. It okay. Is some choices of procrastination, a healthy choice. Uh, Okay. Probably [00:31:00] so. But does that really capture kind of like you were saying, Neil, the, the spirit of what procrastination is, remember irrationally putting off tasks that are over a deadline or approaching a deadline, that’s a rational spot that you just presented, you know?
Yeah. I wore the hell out and I need to rest. Yeah, sure. But I’m wore the hell out and I gotta get this stuff done this weekend and dang, it just didn’t happen. I binged on Netflix for four hours and got caught up on. You know, Picard, which is, it’s a good show, not so great of a show. It’s alright. I think it’s a good show.
You like Picard? Yeah. Do you
Neil Robinson: really?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. What season are you in? No, I’m
Adam Cloninger: not watching anymore. Cause you stopped. No, well, no, I don’t have that. Like I kind of
Chris Gazdik: service anymore so I could, oh, you, you, you got, you got outta general. Yeah, I got, I got stuck there until that. And I’m like, yeah, I got stuck and I couldn’t get back.
So let’s blow off some stigmas and [00:32:00] procrastination really ask yourself, you know, what does this issue? What does this issue say about the person who procrastinates? So Adam, when you, when you see somebody, we all know these people, they’re, they’re heavy procrastination offenders. We’re gonna leave Neil out of this, but what do you see or what do you think about those types of people?
Like what does that, what does it, you know, somebody that you’ve worked with. Somebody that your buddie’s with or somebody in your family, somebody in your circles, you know, your children, your children, for sure. This affects a lot of academics. I wasn’t even gonna go into the topic of academics, but this is a lot of college school I was being like,
Neil Robinson: I was in like household chores too.
Yes,
Adam Cloninger: kid. Well, I mean, I guess people could say lazy,
Chris Gazdik: but that’s a, that’s a thing I don’t, that was first on my li my mind they’re lazy people. Anything else come to mind,
Adam Cloninger: maybe having difficulty making a decision,
Chris Gazdik: poor decision [00:33:00] maker. They suck at time management. They’re unreliable. Yes. Right. Neil, anything coming to
Neil Robinson: mind?
I think you know, I know I have the notes, but the unmotivated, you know, that whole thing about, you know yep. They’ll get to it later. Well, whatever, blah, blah, blah, let me watch my shows or, you know yeah. I think unmotivated is one of those
Chris Gazdik: that I think of sort of like lazy this person’s uninterested in our project, you know, you could, you could mistakenly interpret that that they’re passive aggressive.
They’re just blowing me off. When you’re observing somebody procrastinating something. Yeah, I said unmotivated and lazy and unreliable was, was other things that I thought about. Right. Does that have anything to do? And does that make you rethink that equation? When you think about poor emotion, regulation skills directly leads to procrastination, not personal characteristics of a person, like can we re.
examine these [00:34:00] stereotypes that we just highlighted possibly mm-hmm I would argue that we might need to do that. So yeah, here’s, here’s a little bit of a takeaway maybe if you’re dealing with a heavy procrastinator in your life, maybe you need to, instead of getting angry and frustrated, make a mental note to check in with that person about, Hey, what’s what’s going on with you.
What’s what’s happening. So, so we reframe getting pissed off angry, calling them lazy, unmotivated, passive, aggressive, whatever kind of stigmas and stereotypes kind of get blasted at that person. We’re talking about parenting check, check on it. Huh? We’re talking about parenting now. Ooh, well, like I said, I wasn’t going to go in the direction of academics and parenting, but you’re right.
Go ahead. What, what
Adam Cloninger: do you mean? No, I mean, you’re checking in, but you know, sometimes they put stuff off doing stuff and. sometimes checking in is not always a good thing too. Like the upset, like [00:35:00] we were talking about this,
Chris Gazdik: so I’m not following you yet. What, what
Adam Cloninger: I’m saying that sometimes checking in with a a child to, because they might be putting off doing something.
I can, I also see that sometimes that’s you do that, but sometimes they get upset that you’re checking in with them because it’s something you’ve already talked about and they haven’t done it yet. So you’re talking about it again, cuz you’re checking in with them and they’re like, we’re already talking about this.
I know I haven’t done it.
Chris Gazdik: You’re stressing me out. Yeah. Well, well, okay. But here’s the tip parent something might be going on with that. Right, right, right. And I’m
Adam Cloninger: not saying they shouldn’t do it. I’m just saying that happens.
Chris Gazdik: It happens. And how this, how this progresses. Do you have thoughts, Neil? I can’t see you in my peripheral.
I thought was he, was there ready to say something or not?
Neil Robinson: Well, no, I think that does go back to the emotional management. If they’re not getting things done, why are they not getting done? It’s your job as a parent to check in. Yeah. And you should see that. I think [00:36:00] that’s a great tip where you talked about, like, if you have a friend or someone you work with that keeps putting things off, think of it from a, if you think of it from, well, they just dunno how to manage their emotion.
Something else could be going on. Maybe you are more compassionate. Maybe you do have a little bit more under understanding because you know, as parents, you care about your kids and when they keep putting things off, you do get frustrated and you have to put your foot down and be like, look, just get this thing done.
But I know, I know you can’t do that with your coworkers. I mean like this week both. Well, so you can do, you can but like, you know, my kids had to mow the yard and basically we said, Mason, you have to do your part before you go to your friends. And the other one, he had to go before you go to his girlfriend, like that’s.
And then they’re like, dad, you gotta demo your yard. I don’t want to right. You know, I, I did finally do it this week, but yeah. That’s, I think that’s a big, you do have, I think thinking that shift and pattern of procrastination for other people, I, I like that idea cuz it does change how you present yourself.
And I know as a procrastinator, if Chris you’re mad at me, cuz I [00:37:00] haven’t put the show out, I’m gonna get worked up and I’m just gonna wait another day or two to push it out because I’m gonna get so stressed. And now
it’s
Chris Gazdik: interesting. And now you’ve got an additional component right. Of inter relational problems that begin to occur that have nothing to do with the, the, the topic.
And it has everything to do with the, the now the conflict that you and I could. Yeah, we could have, we could have blew up at each. , you know of whenever that was, that this was up a few months ago or something. And we didn’t, we handled it, but, but it adds to the emotional distress and I feel like we handle our business and our relationship pretty well.
And so we avoided that type of a thing, but boy, if we were to get into that, that probably would’ve doubled or tripled any kind of procrastination problem, because now we’ve added the, the layer of interpersonal relationship problems. Yeah. And that’s now we’re talking about marriage Adam right? Yeah. So here here’s a note that I wanna point [00:38:00] out, I, in word of caution or warning, right?
How about when we take these stigmas and we place them? Oh, so horribly on ourselves. Right that we can run into problems. So there’s an interesting effect that really happens to even further negatively infect our mood. By the way, when you start saying these things about your dang self, or believe them about yourself, it’s a misguided MIS represen and underdeveloped representation of yourself.
Internal emotion regulation is the point. Not that it creates regrets and it deflates your self-esteem. You begin to create even more stress for yourself. You, you begin to blame yourself and throw this on to yourself. You, you can even begin to be connected to this is [00:39:00] physical issues and illnesses burdening it.
We were just talking about re interpersonal relationships and creating different resentments and stuff, man, it, this really can blow up when. People get into bad states of emotion regulation, which creates procrastination and pay attention to the way I said that, rather than this really blows up more problems with procrastination, I’m gonna say it again.
This really blows up even more problems with emotion regulation, which increases procrastination. So it’s a nasty cycle that you can get into. It’s a nasty cyclical growing progressive, Ugh, burden. I mean, this, this stuff can weigh people down. When you, when you get into this whole process, make making sense.
Yes. You’re
Adam Cloninger: saying like somebody’s putting something off because they think that [00:40:00] they can’t accomplish something or for whatever the reason is. And then now they’re starting to say, well, it’s because. They’re starting to have thoughts to this. Well, it’s because of me that this is the reason I can’t do it that way and this right.
Making it
Chris Gazdik: worse, it throws it on yourself. Right. You start believing things about yourself. That probably really aren’t true characteristically, but emotionally you start getting into a tougher and tougher spot and it results in more procrastination. Right? Neil, what do you think about that? What are you.
no, I won’t do that to you.
Neil Robinson: I, I love hearing two non procrastinators. Try to describe this. because, and, and the that’s funny about this, because like I said, there’s a lot of self journey I’ve learned. This is my life right now. I don’t think you guys understand that you guys don’t, you guys don’t realize that this is with everything I have going on.
There’s things that I need to do that I don’t do. And then it gets, it’s this vicious [00:41:00] cycle of now, instead of one thing, now there’s five. Right? And then I get stressed because I’m not getting it done. And then I’m dropping the ball on a customer or someone I’m working with, or yeah. But someone am I, no, you don’t understand.
Right. I, you, I I’ve let things build up a lot. There’s a lot of things I procrastinate on and I have to deal with the consequences. And then I feel bad because I didn’t get things done. And I dropped the ball for certain people. Mm. So it is a very cyclical. Damaging effect. And one of the breakthroughs that my wife and I had is I, you know, I Mo I took care of the yard this week.
You know, you have that in here, which is funny, cuz literally that’s something I have not been doing the backyard pound my fence. So,
Chris Gazdik: so what you were looking ahead.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just saw that cuz that was the part and like they can’t see my backyard, the lawn police can’t see it cuz my fence. Thank God.
Oh, gotcha. Yes, but there’s that and there was something else we did. I went to the store that night versus trying to put off the next day. And, and I, I told mark said I made the adult decisions to get things done. And while we joke about it, [00:42:00] it’s that reality of just getting things done that need to be done.
So that way, the next day when I have to work and then I also need to go to the yard to the, to the grocery store because my wife’s working too. It’s like right. It’s, it’s always those things. And so it’s, it’s making that, like I said, we’re calling it an adult decision, but really it’s just finally doing the things I need to get done and getting that crap over with.
And so it makes my life easier because it’s done, even though I maybe didn’t wanna do it at that time. Well,
Chris Gazdik: this, this may be too much. And, and if you don’t wanna go further with this question, I don’t want to step on your toes and, and, and ask something that I shouldn’t so feel totally free and clear to decline.
Just say, need, delete it if need be what’s that I said, just say no. Yeah, just say no. . Have you noticed then in, in any regard, like when you think of emotion regulation, then though, has anything kind of come about differently that you’re aware of? Like in the last, whatever really few to several months?
Well, yeah, of
Neil Robinson: course, Mo most over the last little bit it’s become, like I said, I I’m seeing that [00:43:00] conscious effort to not. You know, like I said, not get things done and, and do something else that just has less stress. That it’s more, I’m, it’s easier for my, my mental capacity. It’s easier for my, well, wait a minute.
Chris Gazdik: I mean, something different. What I’m asking you is let me ask it in a different way. That’s more direct again, you can decline to answer . Are, are, do you feel you are handling emotional realities in your life better than you used to handle them? Is that clear?
Neil Robinson: I’m trying to handle the things I have to get done. And I don’t know if it’s, to me emotional regulation. When, when I think about how my emotions are, it’s just getting things done that I need to get done and not looking. So in my head, what I’ve kind of related to, I want that dopamine fix for, for that.
And that’s what I want to make me happy versus just getting something done. And so that’s the emotion because I want the happy juice. Yeah. I want that dopamine. Yeah. And so that’s my happy juice. I love that term. That to me, that’s where I, I [00:44:00] found that I’m turning to in these moments, instead of just getting something done, creating that, that report diving into that problem.
It’s about, oh, let me just get that happy juice so I can supposedly make it through my next task when I never really get to my next task because 30 minutes go by 45 minutes an hour goes by. Okay. And so that, that’s what I’ve noticed lately is that those triggers where instead of dealing with the task at hand, whether it’s a more complex problem or it’s just something mundane, that’s boring.
Cuz sometimes in technical it’s boring stuff. Copy paste, copy paste, copy paste. And sometimes this’s a hard problem. I want to go get that dopamine fix. Okay. So I, I want to be happy. So that’s my I’m using procrastination to make myself happy. With dopamine, right. Inappropriately. Yeah. Basically. That’s not how I should be making myself
Chris Gazdik: happy.
Well, okay. Okay. So what I was gonna say is, arguably maybe the answer to my question is you’re saying, I don’t really know that I am or not, but what I hear you actually [00:45:00] saying is no, no, no, wait a minute. Neil, you are because you’re making decisions about getting the happy juice. I love that. I’m so gonna use that.
You’re getting the happy juice in more appropriate ways. Mm-hmm and that is emotion regulation that is managing emotional realities, more productively, more appropriately, and you feel better and therefore procrastination has gone down. I I’d be willing to bet if you thought about it, that if that makes sense that that’s what might have been happening over whatever period of.
Yeah,
Neil Robinson: I, I could see that. And I know a lot of stuff that’s been put on my plate lately. There’s more external deadlines to get things done. And so it’s, it’s, I’ve had to push past that point, right? Like I said, this is something to me. If I look back at it ever since I started corporate. It was always this, the procrastination got worse.
Cause every time I do something and then it just led me building the habit to get my dopamine fixed versus doing stuff. This is changing
Chris Gazdik: our thinking a little bit. What I really dive into with [00:46:00] this because people might say, oh yeah, I operate better with deadlines. Well, so arguably to decrease procrastination, create deadlines for yourself, but I’m saying now I wouldn’t have last week, but now I’m saying, well, hold on a minute, would we be more productive in making procrastination changes in our life?
If we, instead of create something external to ourself, like a deadline, and instead, really look internally about how we’re managing emotion, like where we’re getting our dopamine jumps from that is more effective at decreasing procrastination, right. Is fundamentally different. And I’ve never really thought of that before that way.
Does that, does that make Woody hearing Adam? Does that make sense? I’m just thinking
Adam Cloninger: how I handle stuff. Yeah. ,
Chris Gazdik: he’s gone into introspection.
Adam Cloninger: No, I’m just, I’m going into prioritization. And so that I don’t know. Well,
Neil Robinson: yeah. And, and I think that, I think there’s a lot of stuff with prioritization and, and your personality that [00:47:00] some, I mean, well, this is the emotional regulation.
I think type time management is a lot of stuff. Like you’re talking about creating deadlines. I can’t create my own deadlines and stick to them. Now, if we have an external deadline, I can try to stick closer to that. And I won’t even say I’ll stick to that deadline, but for me, I can’t create my own prioritization of my own timelines because I give, I give myself too much slack.
I, I give myself reasons I can let, I can, I can convince myself that, oh, I can push it off later, no matter what it.
Chris Gazdik: Well, again, I think rationalizations and avoidance are a big part of this avoiding things that stress us further avoiding things that we’re uncomfortable with li listen to this list that they, somebody maybe me or somebody came up with that I thought was interesting to kind of help understand what are the typical reasons that that people use.
And I’ve heard us talking about them a little bit. And, and these are what was, I had another point about that? Well, yeah, so these are not clinical reasons. Oh, that’s what the point I was gonna make here, here in a [00:48:00] segment. I wanna look at diagnostic realities. So we’ll, we’ll mention that these are just things that people say, which arguably could be called excuses or rationalizations.
And we’ve, we’ve talked about that in avoidance. I probably should have had that as well. The, these reasons for procrastination could be called excuses, rationalizations, or avoidance tactics, not knowing what to needs to be done. Okay. Not knowing how to do something, not wanting to do something period. Not caring if it gets done, not feeling in the mood.
Okay. Being in the habit of waiting until the last minute, believing that you work better under pressure, these are rationalizations excuses or, or arguably ways that we create avoidance opportunities, right? Believing that you work better under pressure thinking that you can finish it, you know, at the last minute, forgetting that it even happens or that it needs done blaming sickness or health waiting for the right moment, needing time to think that’s something that people [00:49:00] talk about a lot that leads to procrastination.
I, I, I gotta think about it. I wanna make sure that it’s right. And, and then doing a different task. So I don’t know. I didn’t, I didn. Do this, or prepare this, but as we’re talking naturally into conversations, it’s kind of like how looking down through these, how, how many of these things are sort of emotionally charged or, you know, have a, a, a, an emotion regulation origin before you get to believing or saying these things.
I’m, I’m just kind of curious. Cause I would bet we can make connections to them. Mm-hmm all of them. Oh, all of them you say mm-hmm why do you say that? Cause I, why do you say that? Well, I mean, you’re,
Adam Cloninger: you’re saying how many of these things, can we like have some kind of emotional reasons for having these feelings?
Right. Right. I can see, you know, not, not feeling in the mood it’s mood, you had a, you had, you had a bad day. I don’t feel like doing right now. [00:50:00] Yeah. Right. I don’t wanna do something. I had day. I.
Chris Gazdik: Fear of not knowing, so that holds
Adam Cloninger: me away. Don’t know what to do. Well, if you don’t know what to do, then it’s
Chris Gazdik: kinda hard to do it waiting for the right moment.
Taking an action. Yeah, no, I absolutely. I mean, I hadn’t thought of that, but dang. Yeah. If you look at these or typical reasons, people sight that they procrastinate, I think this new way of thinking about being UN skilled or less skilled about managing our emotional selves, that’s going to lead to more procrastination.
I I just, dude, I do. I think that’s just a, a bit of a, a game changer. That, that is fascinating. Okay. Dang. It’s already 50. Okay. So we, we need to fast course a little bit, cuz I want to get to like, what do we do to manage this? Okay. Really short. I’m not gonna spend a lot of time on this then, but it, I began to really think about, and it was in the article too.
How specific diagnostic realities in mental health are also a part of this. So I thought of this [00:51:00] earlier, Adam, as you were saying, well, now we’re talking about parenting, right. And you were like, you know, do I wanna check in and how does that work? Well, you know what, sometimes when you see a kid that’s heavily procrastinating, that actually can be very much related to an unknown or undiagnosed, arguably the word medically right in mental health, a medical, mental health reality.
And so check this. Amongst adults and stuff too, by the way. But depression, the real symptoms of depression lead to some of these things that you and I just agreed. Adam support these excuses, diagnostically, you have a lack of motivation. You have a lack of interest, meaning interesting things to you. Just, aren’t interesting.
When you have a clinical issue of depression you have a sleep issue. So the energy, your energy itself goes down. You’re stuck in a sad space and negative thinking. Even [00:52:00] simple tasks will seem daunting, like brushing your teeth when you’re depressed, how much procrastination do you think you’re going to have when you’re in a depression episode for goodness sakes, it’s gonna explode.
Just like literally the point I’ve had clients not able to maintain employment because of this. Talk about severe procrastination. How about anxiety? Right? Fears and feeling overwhelmed that happens with anxiety, negative thinking again, perpetuates you get consumed with some types of worry, worry kicks in.
If you’re worrying, worrying, worrying, are you doing, doing, doing arguably? No. Right. Foggy brain happens with depression as well. You know, when you’re just not on. Your, your, your mind’s not sharp. You, you you’re foggy you. The, the facts just don’t come to you. Like I’m struggling with words right now.
It’s a little bit of foggy brain. Well, you get a lot of that with depression. You get a lot of that with anxiety [00:53:00] and then perfectionism, you know, consumed with worry and consumed with, I have to get this. Perfect. So I’m just gonna put it off. These are real things with anxiety and specifically O C D, especially with perfectionism the fear of making mistakes.
I wanna do it, right. I don’t wanna do it wrong or doubts that I’m gonna get it right. Let me build up myself to get the right time, the right thing, the right. You know, all of that, you know, it, this creates such when you have these issues kind of going on such manifestation. Struggling emotion management, a D D of course, you know, with D D you get distractions, you start doing other tasks diagnostically.
You don’t finish the things that you start. I mean, so boy, like I say, like, if in my world of clinical diagnosing, I just see how this totally sets up or can help you identify people in your life that might be struggling in a way that never really realized if you switch your [00:54:00] thought with that takeaway a little while ago, this person that I know that’s a heavy procrastinator.
Well, why what’s going on? Let me really check in with them. You might actually dig in and find that they’re really struggling in some way. That seems completely unrelated to what you’re frustrated about with procrastination. Ah, okay. I know that’s clinical stuff, but is this making sense? Is this,
Neil Robinson: and I think one thing you can do to look at too is like, if you do have a coworker or a family member that.
has been one way. And then you see that shift into procrastination coming at it
Chris Gazdik: from, oh boy, that’s a
Neil Robinson: great point. Why, you know, thinking about why, because there’s a lot of times when they might, you might have a coworker that sure. Top of the game, and next thing you know what happened, you’re missing deadlines and you have to, and that goes back to understanding the emotional side and looking at possible anxiety, depression.
Yeah. What’s going on and having that compassion to ask them. And so sometimes if you come into the relationship later, you just think that that way, but people who know them before were like, yeah, this guy used to be top of [00:55:00] the top of the game, blah, blah, blah. Or your kids like, yeah, they were straight a student, they go to a new school, new teacher or have new friends and then everything drops.
Well, why, why are you not getting your stuff done? What’s going on. Yeah. And, and knowing that it’s an excellent pointing, you know, that kind of goes back to you see the implications of the mental. Concerns that lead to that shift. So that’s something to think about if you see that change in people, you know, where they go from productive to procrastinator.
Chris Gazdik: And I think honestly, you know, I said that I don’t deal with this in therapy quite so much. And then I corrected myself and I’m, I’m supporting the correction in myself now, you know, if somebody has a concern about their husband procrastinating or themselves procrastinating in some way, I I’m sure that’s come up.
I it’s just been unremarkable to me because quite possibly naturally I just moved from that to like, okay, well what’s going on emotionally, cuz that, I don’t know if I just intuitively made that connection that we don’t really need to do procrastination and time management [00:56:00] skills. Cause I’ve done time management skills, you know, in, in, in my therapy practice.
But instead of dealing with procrastination, I’ve just intrinsically moved, you know? To like, well, how are we managing emotion sort of assuming, or knowing that that’s gonna make an impact because I’ve dealt with that all the time. So how we deal with this, Adam? How are we gonna fix this?
Adam Cloninger: he could, I don’t know.
Cause I’m still, I’m still having trouble with the procrastination thing. I just, I just
what do you mean? Well, I’m, I’m, there’s things that I put off, but I don’t put ’em off for an any kind of emotional fixes I put ’em off because there’s always a reason what, and I don’t, I
Neil Robinson: don’t think give one example outside of the kayaking in the deck recently that you’ve done.
Adam Cloninger: Okay. Deck of my lawn more.
I’ve got it off. I need to paint it so I can get my lawnmower back together so I can use the riding lawnmower, but instead I’m looking at, well, the grass needs to be cut. So I get to push, mow out. [00:57:00] I’m not procrastinating painting my deck. I just
Neil Robinson: need to cut the grass. But how many times have you gone Hickory Tavern instead of painting your, your deck?
Am I going, I’m painting
Adam Cloninger: my, am I gonna paint my deck at, at like eight, 8:00 PM, eight 30 at night.
Neil Robinson: I mean, because you’re working till eight o’clock at night. Well, to, to
Chris Gazdik: Neil’s point, I’ve actually done projects where, when I get into a project, I want to get it done and I have I’ll do it like till midnight.
Adam Cloninger: No, I mean,
I’ve started on it. I just haven’t finished it yet. Right. But why not? Cause
I haven’t had time. Well, it’s been raining. I need to cut the grass.
Neil Robinson: Okay. I’ve been outta town. Those are valid reasons. I’ve been working longer hours cause the at work. So in this case that those are valid reasons. Yeah.
You just didn’t manage your time to pull the deck off your lawnmower to repay you’re repainting your lawnmower deck. Yeah. To me. That’s important.
Adam Cloninger: It’s got
Chris Gazdik: rust on it. I thought about that too, Neil, like, why ,
Neil Robinson: why would you add, why would you add that stress to your life? Like, why would you do that? Because I already have it off.
No, before that, like, were you maintaining it? And then you, well, no, no something [00:58:00] broke on it. Okay. You
Chris Gazdik: was fixing there’s
Neil Robinson: valid, valid reason, but I
Adam Cloninger: didn’t just say, you know what, I need to take it off so I can paint my line. God, something broke on it. So I
Chris Gazdik: took it off, but it still doesn’t need to be painted.
Is one of the things I’m thinking about? Well, I mean, I could just put
Adam Cloninger: the rusty thing back on there. And then in a couple years I take it back off because I have to replace it because I feel like
Neil Robinson: you’re it. I feel like you’re wait to get some emotional, emotional benefit from having a nice, clean freshly painted lawn deck.
Adam Cloninger: I’m having an emotional benefit of it lasting longer because I don’t have to replace it. Cause I don’t have hole in. It is
Chris Gazdik: guys, the therapist here is just loving this dialogue. Honestly, Mr. Neil has graduated with licensing Scouts. Like I love it. That’s. Given a I five , but let’s move on to what do we do to, to, to fix this stuff, right.
So we can get into taxing for a landing because I, I, I really wanna make the strong suggestion in my own thinking when we have the emotion management realities here is, is breaking things down into small pieces. That is a very [00:59:00] hugely important emotion management tool that I, I suggest just thousands of times, right.
Because one of the big things that man, that managing your emotions helps with, particularly with anxiety realities, or when you’re intimidated with something. I, I think that Craig talked about painting his room on here before did I, did we,
Neil Robinson: did he not? Do you remember? Yeah. He’s talked about it where you break down into small sections,
Chris Gazdik: put in the tape.
I didn’t wanna break his confidence. Yeah. Or, you know, his, I wanna, yeah, no, he he’s mentioned a few times. Yeah. See, he, he broke down a house painting project cuz he was so intimidated with it and that. Changed his emotion so that he was able to get it done and felt great about being able to do it. Right.
Let me just go down through this list and summarize what you guys think and hear about this list, operate from a list and feel the success of checking them off. Right? So organizing, getting a routine. Oh, and by the way, hold on. Let me [01:00:00] back up. Let me circle back this. This is sorry, cuz this was a point that I wanted to make when I started this list that this is really addressing more of the typical reasons, right?
This is, this is more of addressing those reasons that we listed off that are more typical, but really to answer this question with a mic drop, you know, what do we do to manage the problem that you’ve identified with procrastination? The answer really in the mic drop, manage your emotion. That’s really the answer I.
Increase your ability for internal emotion regulation. That’s the answer. And so all these other things that we’re mentioning here, they don’t really get at in my mind the main culprit that I’m now thinking about it, but it does help with some of these other sort of rationalizations. So this isn’t really an answer to what do we do to manage procrastination as you would expect it to be.
This is a list of how to sort of hedge [01:01:00] against if you’re not managing your emotion, you need to see these rationalizations come up. These are some things that you do to kind of hedge your bet is, I don’t know if I said that. Well, does that did y’all get that? Mm-hmm mm-hmm yeah. Okay. Okay. So that’s what this list is operate from a list, get a routine.
That’s actually my favorite. I use that one a lot. Cuz Neo procrastinate for crying out loud. Dude. I think this is a very normal thing. Maybe not as you know, on severe levels, but this is very normal experience for people. And that’s one that I use a lot for myself. I think I’ve even said that to you.
Yeah, you’ve said that. Yeah, that helps me a lot to get into a routine. I’m glad it helps you. I know, right? Set up extra time to take the pressure off instead of underestimating the time that it will take to do something, literally this sounds corny, but say a confidence. Building statement to yourself in your own head.
I can do this. I am a good enough person at landscaping. I [01:02:00] can handle technical problems on computers. Be I’ve done this before, whatever, build yourself up. You’ll find yourself doing better. Ask questions when being assigned to task this addresses, like, I don’t know how to do it, right. I don’t know if I’m gonna get it wrong.
I’m gonna screw it up or it’s not gonna be perfect. Well, ask a lot of questions when you’re getting a direction from your boss or your employer, and so that you get as much information as possible. That’ll help calm you down, right. Know that you don’t need to be perfect. That is a huge one. The lawnmower doesn’t need to be perfect.
I can just drive
Adam Cloninger: it around with a whole hunt and rest to the death. I mean,
Chris Gazdik: I literally did that with the last lawnmower that I owned for about several years before I got a new one and it worked fine, dude. Set reminders for priorities, highlight the importance of mundane tasks to yourself and understand that there’s great value in those tasks.
So those are some of the things that I think that was a combined list from myself and the article that we, that I was operating from and stuff. But, so what [01:03:00] do you guys think? Do you think we changed a, a perspective on what procrastination kind of operates? I mean, Adam, you’re struggling over there still.
Adam Cloninger: Yeah. To me, to me, I’m hearing what you’re saying. Procrastination has to deal with. If you’re, if you’re putting something off because it’s, you just don’t feel like doing it and because it’s a mental thing and that I can see that being negative, but again, I like doing stuff. Get it right. I know you might say OCD, perfectionism.
I want things right. You don’t not see that directly. If you don’t have time to do something, once you don’t have time to it twice. So you do it, right. That’s how I do things.
Chris Gazdik: I love that praise. If you’re gonna do something, son do it. Right. I mean, you know, do
Neil Robinson: it right the first time. Well, it is like that statement.
If you’re too poor, don’t buy something cheap, you know, cuz you’ll buy it again and again and again. Right.
Chris Gazdik: You know? Oh, wow. I’ve honestly never heard that before. Yeah. It’s the same
Neil Robinson: idea. You know like if, if your time is what you’re, [01:04:00] you know, valuable, cuz like you don’t have time to paint it. So you don’t have time in, you know, six months when that hole gets too big and it messes up your lawn mower.
You’d have to take it apart again, you know? So that’s the idea of, or go buy another,
Adam Cloninger: right. I don’t wanna pork out the money for it. I mean, so yeah, but I would, I’d like to retire
Neil Robinson: some year, you know? Yeah. You don’t wanna keep buying lawnmowers with holes in them, but no, I would’ve to say one thing on your list that you’re missing and I know it just.
For me. Yep. Remove distractions. Oh, absolutely. What, whatever it is that you keep going back to, instead of getting the task done, make the conscious effort to remove that distraction, put your phone, you know, this is one thing that I’ve heard, you know, phones are
Chris Gazdik: huge with this when you’re
Neil Robinson: working, put your phone in the other room, you know?
Right. You know, for me, since I work on the computer, my biggest distraction is YouTube. Well, how the am I supposed to like, turn it off. I’m gonna have to get on my router and like redirect YouTube, just so it doesn’t resolve correctly just, but then my kids will get mad right now cuz they’re home from school.
But that’s one thing that, that if you, [01:05:00] if it’s hard for you to manage yourself and you’re always going through certain triggers or certain instructions, take those out of the equation. So it, you don’t have that temptation to go like an alcoholic, doesn’t sit there with a bottle of booze on his desk.
Chris Gazdik: Absolutely. Right. And so that’s one of those things that you talked about that recently with the yeah. Dan gas. Right.
Neil Robinson: And, and part of it also is be, you know, well, there’s that we’re just supposed to be compassion for yourself. There’s also a point. I’m gonna counter contradict that kinda like what Daniel said and the other, just tell yourself, just don’t do it.
You know, you gotta stop giving yourself reasons why you move forward. And that’s what I’ve had to tell myself lately is stop giving myself reasons to get out of it. Stop just, just be a man. Suck it up and just get it done.
Chris Gazdik: Well, yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s defeating the reg the regulatory, the dysfunctional regulatory aspect of rationalization.
Mm-hmm think about the way I said that. Right? You’re you’re you’re kind of saying, just suck it up, buttercup, get it done. Be a man. Make a decision move forward. Right. Move forward. Well, you’re, you’re, you’re preventing the destructive dysregulation of emotion though that way. And
Neil Robinson: [01:06:00] that’s so that, so that kind of goes back to say confidence building statements.
I’m like, that’s gonna, but I’m like, to me, it’s like for my personality, that’s like, just go do it, like stop being a baby. Just get it done. Yeah. So to me, that’s my con that’s my confidence building statement because I give myself too much slack. Yeah. And it’s just,
Chris Gazdik: I have to stop, so. Gotcha. Gotcha. Closing thoughts, Mr.
Clinger. I’m. All right. Listen, we are wrapping up. Hopefully you’ve gotten a little bit of. And, and new thinking about the issue of procrastination and boy, we’ve got a big announcement of episode, 200. We, we may be taking you know, well, we are, I think we we’ve talked about that, Neil, right? Like a couple, few weeks break.
We’re not procrastinating. We’re building, it’s planned, it’s planned. It’s, it’s purposeful. It’s part of our strategy. Not very long. I would say probably not more than a month, right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So we’ll, we’ll be firing it back up. We’re gonna take a little bit of a break and fire really up cool things [01:07:00] in episode 200 will be the announcement.
All right. So thanks for hanging with us guys. Take care. Have a good week is what I usually say. Maybe it’s have a good month. All right. Take care and be well.