Is Mental Health Political Trauma a Thing – Ep206

We have recently talked a lot about the mental health trauma that organized religion can put people through, but not much has been mentioned about how politics can do the same thing. There is so much information and a lot of opinions that it is hard to know what is right and what is wrong. Then when someone takes the time to vote, they put a lot of pressure on themselves to vote for the “right” person.

Tune in to see Political Trauma Through a Therapist’s Eyes.

Listen for the following takeaways from the show:

• Are Politics Good or Bad?
• Have you thought about what politics really even are?
• How do you copy with the stress around you with conflicts and disagreements?
• With the drop in religious practices, people have replaced that with politics.
• There is a triangle of trauma, there is an aggressor, a victim and a witness. In politics we are the witnesses.
• You to limit your exposure to all the media.
• What is the history of politics?
• How did we get to where we are right now with our politics?
• We discuss group dynamics and how they play a part in Politics.
• How the stress of political upheaval erodes resilience.
• What are the ways you can cope with Political Trauma?

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Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg

Episode #206 Transcription

Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. Welcome to Through a Therapist’s Eyes. This is November the 11th, 2022. We got a

Kasie Morgan: what? Today’s November 10th. It’s Thursday.

Chris Gazdik: Oh, this is not the 11th. Correct. 11th is Veteran’s Day. That’s

Kasie Morgan: tomorrow. Okay. Thank you for your service, John. Thank you.

John-Nelson Pope: You’re, thank you for your service. Thank you.

Chris Gazdik: Appreciate it. That is cool. Yes, he is. The, the in-house Navy man that self proclaimed right. Anchors away. Yes. I love that about you. Who pays gray and on the way? Well, I apologize for the the missed date, but anyway, let’s moving on to, we are going to be talking. Politics and your mental health. Now, you’ll know the date as the 10th, which is exactly three days post the last election.

And this show will come out maybe a week or two from today. So you’ll have a, you will have had a little bit of time to digest this topic. I imagine [00:01:00] coming back down from whatever terrible time you’ve probably had, , this topic will be fun. I think you’re almost, I don’t wanna out you if, if, if what your reactions were funny though.

Do you wanna, do you wanna say what your reactions were when you found out this, this topic was here? I just thought that was funny.

and that’s the

John-Nelson Pope: reaction. I said, Oh God,

Kasie Morgan: I did say something that was like a really funny meme on the internet. It was like, I just feel like we’re in a custody battle waiting to see which parent wins. Oh God. . I’m like, truth. That’s true. As the

Chris Gazdik: politics nowadays go, Oh yeah, indeed. More on that in a bit. So this is where you get insights from therapists and personal time in your car and at home, recognizing he’s not delivery of therapy services in any way.

I do have the three questions I want you to be thinking about during the show. Politics. Really. Is it good or bad? I think we’re go, we’re gonna talk about that and arrive at a conclusion. Have you thought about what they even [00:02:00] really are? Like what is it to be political? I think little foreshadowing, there’s a little stereotype and a little bit of myth and a little bit of shading, A little bit of jadedness that we’ve, we’ve gotten to on that.

And then, you know, have you thought about. , you know, really? What do you do to cope? How do you deal with the stress? I think we could all agree it’s stressful. That’s your reactions even to the show topic, right? It can be mm-hmm. , you know, so you know, it’s thinking about how do you deal with the stress around you, even way of different conflicts and disagreements that you have in your personal life.

Because we do that on a macro scale when it comes to politics. That is the things I want you to be thinking about. So, got the, the book still out, Rediscovering emotions and Becoming your Best Self. Do subscribe to the show. It helps us a lot. Do click to share the show. It helps a lot. Five star reviews.

Never four. John, that’s a bad thing, right? Right. Always gotta be [00:03:00] five. Five star.

John-Nelson Pope: Four is above average though. Well, that is true, but five.

Chris Gazdik: Gives you that. But if you want us to really pay attention, give us a two and we’ll respond. No, I’m just kidding. Don’t, don’t do that. And, and, and the YouTube is new for us and, and a lot of our, a lot of our listeners.

So it’s just like Facebook. You hit the subscribe button, hit the little bell that pops up the live. When we come up on that, as we develop that contact at through a therapist’s eyes.com is the way that you can interact with us. This is in the political world, the human emotional experience that we do endeavor to figure out together.

Like I, I, I think , Can I start from the get go and say like, this is something that we need to figure out the emotional experience with politics. Mm-hmm. Sure. Definitely. You. It, it, it has gotten, it feels like, to a degree, when we all endure this experience. I don’t find, like, I remember years ago when I started as a young clinician, there was [00:04:00] this lady and she, she would look at the politics and the election cycles as like the Super Bowl.

Like, you know, she didn’t like the sport. She didn’t do you know much with that? And, and this was like their big thing. They enjoyed it.

Kasie Morgan: Hmm. So, you know, my secondary primary degree is political science. I did not.

Chris Gazdik: It is, Oh, fantastico.

Kasie Morgan: Yeah. I was gonna be an attorney. Really? Yeah. We see how

Chris Gazdik: that worked out. I could so believe that I Oh, you’re

John-Nelson Pope: very eloquent.

Don’t believe that. I think you, Yeah, you’d make a great attorney. Thank you. She could make a case. She could make cogent and very direct or she

Chris Gazdik: is a case. We’re in contingent evidence. Yes. You didn’t hear me? Pardon? I am a case. I’m sorry. Yes. A case of what? She can make a case or she is a case. A case. I’m Kasie Case of what your Kasie.

Nice to have you back this week, by the way. Thank you so much. Are you feeling better, ma’am? I’m feeling great. That’s cool. On the show, we have four, you can see with the cameras. We have three. Miss Victoria is ill, Everybody seems to be getting ill now that we’re back out in the world. Right. Like boost our

John-Nelson Pope: immune system.

[00:05:00] We need

Chris Gazdik: a boost. Yeah. Have some orange juice or something.

Kasie Morgan: Or a LaCroix lemon cell or .

Chris Gazdik: Indeed. So I’m gonna start out with a first little segment on just some random thoughts that I have had. And you know, it’s, it’s, it’s funny on the show, if you followed a show for any length time, we used to have me and Craig doing the show and, and I would like to say to him when we did current events or something, I’m like, Craig, let’s get political.

Yeah. , you know, and he would brace for impact and you know, we would go on to do the, the, the piece that was important at the time.

John-Nelson Pope: But let’s get political. Political instead of physical.

Kasie Morgan: Physical. Yeah. I love it. So me and John are on the same wavelength tonight. Vibe in, we are vibing together. We have discussed off.

Bruce Willis and our favorite Christmas movies being Die Hard In The Gremlins. So ,

Chris Gazdik: Amen and amen. Do at that Whoop yippy ca. John, I’m gonna, I’m gonna let you break out in, in song on a special day and do [00:06:00] the whole song. We’re gonna, we’re gonna make this a karaoke for you. Okay. .

Kasie Morgan: I’ll be like, it’d be like I’m singing the choir last night and I can be the Pips.

Chris Gazdik: I’m so down with that. All right, so let’s get to these thoughts, random thoughts. Do you have any random thoughts, though off the get go, that of a serious nature when you hear what we’re talking about, how we’re gonna go about this? Like what is your genuine kind of like, you know, gut feeling with this topic?

Kasie Morgan: Hmm. I think for me, that I feel like the most dangerous person is the misinformed person, Not the uninformed and not the informed, but the misinformed.

Chris Gazdik: Oh wow. We could go away was with that. Mm-hmm. for sure. Little bit of that going around.

John-Nelson Pope: The conspiracy theories, I think. And and I, And that’s to add to what you were saying, I think it’s the misinformed,

Chris Gazdik: Yeah.

Yeah. You know, one of the [00:07:00] random thoughts that I have, it’s not so random. I’ve been, I’ve been thinking about this, part of the reason why I wanted to do this on the show, like, I don’t wanna shy away from the uncomfortable topics that we have in mental health. I, I, I feel like in, well, I think somebody alluded to it when we were talking a little while ago, like, you know, oh God, like, are my clients gonna be upset?

Or, you know, do I let my personal views be known? Or how does this work? Like, I think people are terrified at this point. Like, so much so that I have been aware that probably in the last three, four years, Right. Maybe it goes a little bit further back than that, but, but really, I think, and this is nothing about Trump per se, to make a statement, but this has come up as a legitimate.

Full fledged therapeutic clinical issue in my sessions, more than I’ve ever experienced before in since 1995 doing therapy. Oh, [00:08:00] well, I would agree. Yeah. In my experience.

John-Nelson Pope: As what? Like, what is that? Just yesterday. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Just yesterday. Yeah.

Chris Gazdik: I. John, I don’t understand that. I, I, I really kind of don’t, I’m not gonna lie, like the emotions that are in it for people.

The, the, Well,

John-Nelson Pope: it’s almost a religious experience because you, you had a, a client 20 some years ago. I, I suppose, who was treating it like football, for example, as a Super Bowl. Well, but I think it’s gone beyond that. I think it’s more in terms of, I think as, as the influence of religion and religious faith has decreased in our society in our culture, I think something had to fill the void.

And I think it’s the, it’s the almost a religious wow holding onto tribals the tribes. And so either you’re red or you’re blue. And you belong to that tribe [00:09:00] or you don’t. And then there’s a third tribe, which is actually larger than either the red or the blue. And that is independence. Mm-hmm. .

Chris Gazdik: It’s funny that you put it that way because I, I, I heard somebody talking on the radio program somewhere and they’re like, Oh, you’re one of those people, you know, a split ticket person.

And I thought, Holy crap, wait a minute. I, I really hon, maybe I’ll live under a rock. I mean, I get into my own world and kind of just put my head down a lot. I, I do that somewhat on purpose for just personal , I don’t know, protection and, and, and whatnot. But I, I really thought it was rare that people would like, just click, you know, the, the, the single ticket vote party down the line.

They,

John-Nelson Pope: they sorted you into a, into a category, didn’t they? Well, you’re a

Chris Gazdik: squi. What the, what does that mean? ? Yeah, what does that mean? I don’t even understand.

John-Nelson Pope: Well, that’s more on, on the Republican side. I guess a squish is somebody that’s let’s say, would be more moderate. [00:10:00] But I guess there’s Squish is on, on the, on the blue side too, on the Democrat side.

Kasie Morgan: Yeah. Well, but I mean, if you think about it in a two party system, they want you to do that because, you know, even in primary elections, if you register as unaffiliated you have to select which primary you’re gonna vote in. Oh, yeah. So really what it is, is a chasm to keep us to a two party system and not let a third party infiltrate that system.

That very rarely you’ll see Senate seats that come open that independents will win, but for the most part, they want you to vote either in the Republican or the Democratic primary. As an

John-Nelson Pope: American studies major in college, and I was gonna be a lawyer as well, is that that’s parties are not in the, the Constitution.

Chris Gazdik: Correct? Right. And they’ve, they’ve adjusted over the years. People forget. Right.

John-Nelson Pope: So they, Yeah. So it’s a tradition basically. It’s, it’s something, it’s extra constitutional, so we don’t have to have parties mm-hmm. . Right. We could have multiple parties. Right. Or [00:11:00] none.

Chris Gazdik: Well, and, and if you look on the ballot, I mean, there are multiple parties.

Nobody has the mindset anymore that that’s the case. I was just surprised that there’s actually very rare do people do a split. Ballot. I do that every ballot, honestly. I go per the

John-Nelson Pope: person. Don’t you think that reflects more what a counselor would be like in other words, that we have to be able to see both sides probably,

Chris Gazdik: Interestingly enough, Probably so through our eyes.

I think that’s Cause I do a,

John-Nelson Pope: I do split ballot.

Chris Gazdik: Yeah. I do not. You do not most of the time, no. Okay. Yeah. I I just thought that was the, the norm and I was surprised to find that it, it maybe isn’t the norm, but I, Kasie have you seen that? Cuz that was my, my surprise thought of, of reality. I mean, have you seen that entering into the clinical realm, like clinical issue with people?

Kasie Morgan: Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think it’s very much a valid experience. So I, I do wanna make that blanketed statement that I think that people are having visceral reactions to the political climate and for [00:12:00] valid reasons. I think that there’s a lot of scare tactics that go on in the media and otherwise I think you’re being fed.

A lot of political agenda information from both sides of the aisle. I think there’s a lot of misinformation out there. I think the access points of social media, everyone has a phone. It immediately comes to you. It’s readily available to you. You can’t open an email, you can’t open a text message. You can’t open anything without it being physically present in front of your face.

And so I think for most people it’s an, a daunting, overwhelming, and political experience that really affects them on a personal and emotional level. I think that is one of the differences from the nineties, right? Like coming into the age of the internet, coming into the age of social media, coming into the age of even computerized voting, right?

Like that was a big ordeal that happened. So I, I do see it in the space and I think that people are having legit valid feelings about it. Absolutely. [00:13:00]

Chris Gazdik: You know, and I, along those lines, I’m curious to hear y all’s response to my theory and belief about how our psyche very much. It in influences our experience with political realities, and that has a lot to do with the world’s experience with nine 11.

Mm-hmm. , I’ve said this when we talk about social media and the things that our field is grappling to deal with, you know, with what.

Kasie Morgan: I mean, I was walking to a freshman speech and communication class during nine 11, so, Oh geez. We’re going there again. Sorry. I mean, I just laughed to myself. So

Chris Gazdik: No, you laughed out loud.

Sorry. . No, but But what I mean by that is, right, so if you think of the history of man, that’s the first time that essentially we all, not everyone, so I say all loosely there, but pretty daum close. We all watched all around the [00:14:00] world, those events in real time. The whole day. Yeah. When has that ever happened?

Ever. And I don’t believe that the human psyche that we’ve wrapped our arms around how to deal with this. And I think we’re really struggling to, to, to grasp our internal coping, our internal resiliency, our internal emotion, our. Anger, our fear, our very specific things come out in this, that, as you say, Kasie, visceral for people.

It’s doing something to us.

Kasie Morgan: Yeah. And, and I think too, it’s important to denote that, you know, the party platforms that are self-created have changed and adapted over time. So like, conservatives of the 1980s are not conservatives today. So like, it’s not the same experience. Same thing with Democrats. There used to be a, a sector of the population called Southern Democrats.

Right. And, and Reagan, Kratts and all of that stuff. Like even when [00:15:00] I was younger coming up and voting in like kindergarten, there was a whole like political agenda that even started in elementary school. And I think that climate has shifted and changed based on. What has erupted on the forefront of the precipice of people’s brains?

I really believe in a lot of ways we didn’t pay attention to a lot of these things until nine 11, and then it hit us in the face and everyone then started paying attention. Everyone then, then had a vested interest in things like the Middle East. Cuz you know, when we came through the first Gulf War and we had zero casualties under the first Bush administration, like there was, Or very few casualties, very few, sorry.

Yeah. Limited casualties from that, the first Gulf War, like there, it was more of a patriotic experience during that period of time. Right. And then, you know, you fast forward to nine 11 and then we’re completely divided, split polarized about what to do in response to the events of nine 11. And I think the polarization of that has really [00:16:00] created a climate where it is person for themselves.

And then, Person against person.

Chris Gazdik: Well, if you look it, it’s interesting. It, it’s just such a fascinating thing that our field has got to catch up on in studying and understanding and managing these, these realities. Because as, as I was listening to you, you know, what occurs to me is, isn’t it a personal experience that you’re watching?

This isn’t the way that we’re consuming this. It’s, it’s much more like in our regular thoughts and in our face. So I think more than it has been historically for, for

Kasie Morgan: man. Yeah. But I, for mankind in the triangle of trauma, you know, we talked about this a couple of episodes ago. We, we often talk about, in the triangle of trauma, we, we talk about the aggressor and we talk about the victim.

But what we’ve neglect to talk about a lot of times is the witness. And that’s the truth of what’s happening right now is we are all witness. To what are hap what is happening in our world [00:17:00] and our political like biases, our political thoughts, our political feelings are coming from that witness mentality of seeing what is happening to ourselves, our neighbors, our parents, what’s gonna happen to our children.

It forces us into a situation that’s almost anxiety provoking from the get go because it’s forcing us to think about the future instead of focusing so much on the present, like what is going to happen four years from now. It’s funny what gonna happen two years from

Chris Gazdik: now because it’s funny that you say it that way because foreshadowing one of the things that we do to cope is stay mindful of the present.

Right? Like that’s directly flies into face of what maybe we naturally fall into the, to the trap. Mm-hmm.

John-Nelson Pope: of doing. I’ve lived since I’ve been reminded over and over again that I’m the old person. Okay.

Kasie Morgan: I’m gonna, John such a good knee. Yeah. Oh, listen

Chris Gazdik: to

John-Nelson Pope: her . I remember, I remember when [00:18:00] Kennedy was shot, and I know exactly where I was.

And we were in Nashville, Tennessee at Burger King, and the state trooper had not even heard about it. We heard it on the radio, and for three days, four days straight, we, we were in that, I, I would say a traumatic event. Move on to Bobby Kennedy. Mm-hmm. . I remember that when he got shot. In fact, I saw that on TV.

And Martin Luther King

Chris Gazdik: Jr. Right. There was a lot going on in the sixties and seventies. And

John-Nelson Pope: then also saw the good thing, which was the first man on the moon. Moon, right? Yeah. And then, then later Reagan, Reagan getting

Chris Gazdik: shot. I was there with Reagan. Uhhuh. . Now, I was a kid when Reagan happened, but I don’t recall people being able, even with the moon, like I think people were huddled around the radios.

Well, we had TVs back then, so, but, but a lot of that, my gosh,

Kasie Morgan: it wasn’t like the thirties Stop, stop, stop [00:19:00] listening. Cheer Lord. He’s making you old.

Chris Gazdik: Stop. It was black and white tv. It it, but, but, but we, people were huddled on their radios Yeah. With, with different big events even so far as like World Series games.

Yeah. And, you know, things like that. And, but, but the consumption is different now that the,

John-Nelson Pope: And again Yes. The 2001, it was the trauma. Yes. The trauma that was there. And it’s

Chris Gazdik: vicarious trauma, Kasie, that you talk about often. Yep. Yeah. Right. And, and that’s, is that a big part? Of our political experience around the world now is acting out on that vicarious trauma experience.

And I think there are certainly elements of that. I mean, I see people in the streets all around the world, you know, dealing with this visceral experience. I mean, we just had in Great Britain, you know, you folks, you could, folks over there just had the, the prime Minister debacle that that just [00:20:00] preceded by the Queen’s death.

Yeah, the Queen’s death. Certainly her death.

Kasie Morgan: Yes. That’s the monarch of the country. And here

Chris Gazdik: we are, we’re, I’m watching this, you know, I mean I’m engaged in this a little bit, right? Like, you know, which is another foreshadowing I’ll just put up. Cuz I think it’s so important. You have got to limit your consumption of this content.

Amen. I mean, you really do it. That is a mental health coping Well Marsh requirement,

John-Nelson Pope: Marshall McCluen talked about hot media and code media. Okay. And hot media would be like, like television. Mm-hmm. for example. Now he didn’t even, he wasn’t, he didn’t live long enough to see what was going on with the computers and the internet and social media.

But that’s very, very hot. So that’s blazing hot. Right. And I think that’s part, and I think it has adjusted way, we think [00:21:00] how, how we we are asked to make sides. We don’t. Whereas if you used to read a newspaper, you could process it. Mm-hmm. and you could go into in depth analysis and comment, be mindful in the moment about it, being mindful in the moment.

But we’re not allowed to do that anymore. And we need to take a step back or several

Chris Gazdik: steps. Well, it’s interesting, John, are we not allowed to, or is it, See, listen, there’s a lot of fun in conspiracy thinking that’s out there. Mm-hmm. there really is it? I, I get. Entertained by thinking of those things when I allow myself to do it.

But I quickly pull back and be like, Look, stop this because I, I, I wish we could misspell this effect that people get psychologically about the allure and the draw to believing stuff in a conspiracy sort of way. Because, and I know you didn’t mean this, John, at least I didn’t interpret it that way, but, but we begin thinking about what are we allowed to do?

[00:22:00] Are we being controlled? Who’s in control? Are they controlling me? A lot of control issues that we can go off on there too and whatnot. But I think instead of that, is this not some, some, some sort of psychologically fascinating mm-hmm. characteristics that human beings haven’t dealt with yet. Well, I, that’s the way I see it.

Yeah. And

John-Nelson Pope: I was saying that, that we have agency, we have Right. We can step back mm-hmm. and, and do that. Right. But, We don’t, a lot of times we get caught up and there’s

Chris Gazdik: nobody at fault for doing that. There’s nobody that’s, that’s causing that Is is my mm-hmm. point. I mean, it’s sort of a, sort of a natural psychological process that we’ve engaged in, in some

Kasie Morgan: way.

Yeah, and, and I think the issue that I have with the immediate access from the media is whoever is moderating your access to the media. So like there is even moderation over by different entities as to what you are fed based on the algorithms of the things you look at. And so [00:23:00] I think that’s equally parts dangerous.

You get a newspaper. Right. Like back in the day, print media, you read it in a newspaper, you can have casual discord with somebody in conversation because they’ve processed it appropriately. You’ve processed it appropriately. We’re not Googling facts about this person or that person. We’re not automatically asking Alexa to tell us about this or what we wanna hear.

Right. Or tell us what exactly what we wanna hear. Cuz you can literally find a linked article to any opinion that you have. Yeah. And so now we can’t even discord appropriately. And what I often talk about even in couples therapy, which is a weird thing to bring into this, No it’s not, is that that conflict is a great form of intimacy.

Building between two people being able to have appropriate conflict resolution is a great way to build emotional intimacy. And the fact that we can no longer do that around certain subject matter without it ruining holiday. Families. Yeah. Traditions, marriages, like we cannot discord [00:24:00] appropriately or, or

John-Nelson Pope: have, Well, there’s whole families that are split because of that.

Chris Gazdik: This was part of my brainstorm, Kasie. It’s totally that. Okay, go ahead, John. Politics,

John-Nelson Pope: it’s a Greek word, Ancient Greek. And it

Chris Gazdik: means he moved us to the next segment. Segment. Go ahead. Oh, sorry. No, you’re on it. Work

John-Nelson Pope: of the cities. Mm-hmm. and that the cities were small city states. There were not kings in in in Greece, sixth century when all this started, the small city states and there were people that were citizens of those states.

They happened to be freed males of property, but it was the beginning of democracy. Limited democracy. But what’s happened is they were supposed to be small in the, in the, they would have jury trials that would have like two or 300 people involved in this. That’s practically all the voting population of Athens, for example.

[00:25:00] But what’s happened is we have, and it’s a good thing, but it, we have spread that democracy to many places and to many people. And it’s wonderful that we have that, but it’s pro, it’s problematic that you’re gonna be able to, to actually operate, try to

Chris Gazdik: do that on a mass scale. On

John-Nelson Pope: a mass

Kasie Morgan: scale. Yeah. I also think it’s problematic that we automatically assume that every faction of the world wants that.

Absolutely. I’m the not, I’m not trying to be like, you know, Ill-fated in any of that, but I think it’s, it is presumptuous to assume that this is what you need in your country all

Chris Gazdik: the time. A little bit egocentric in our part to think that,

Kasie Morgan: I mean, I think democracy is great in concept. I mean like, I think it’s, I think people should be free to choose their leaders, but like, I think we force it sometimes where it doesn’t need to be forced.

John-Nelson Pope: Well, and I think that we, I think we developed at our nation the idea of a republic, [00:26:00] which was roughly based on an understanding of Rome and it being a republic. And you enfranchised more people gradually over the, the, the centuries, at least in the United States, where it went from just white males again who had property to a greater infr enfrancizement of, of, of people freed slaves, for example.

And then 50 years later, women getting the, the right to vote, which seems to be in Congress

Chris Gazdik: clap from Kasie.

John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. And so we’re, we’re being able to do that. But now we’ve gone to the idea, so, Well, we’re a democracy. Well, yeah, we are, but we’re a republic. We’re a Republic representative.

Kasie Morgan: Yep.

Representative democracy.

Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Yeah. You know, my definition, what I come up with, and I think about this, is basically groups of people in operation together and the systems that are developed to do so. That is basically in my [00:27:00] mind what politics are. You went Greek and, and I liked the Greek definition I found on Google.

The set of activities that are associated with making decisions in groups or other forms of power relations among individuals, such as distribution of resources or status. But, you know, it’s funny because we’ve, we’ve warped this all a little bit, and Google’s basic definition, the first thing came up, listen to the difference, the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having to hope to achieve power.

That’s a crappy definition. Well, it’s,

John-Nelson Pope: you’re, you’re at loggerheads with somebody.

Chris Gazdik: How did we get there? Right? That’s the question that, that I wanna propose. I gave Mike you my theory, but like is, so this segment is, is politics good or bad? And I gotta say it’s crucial and it’s [00:28:00] good. Like, I don’t know about you.

Maybe I’m weird. But I like talking about this with people.

Kasie Morgan: Oh, I definitely think that it’s good. It’s good to have political opinion. It’s good to have political discourse. I think we are blessed and fortunate to live in a country where, where we will not be killed for our political opinion or thoughts.

Right? That we are not dictated to, to be told you will choose this leader or no leader, but we’re a democracy. Like that’s not how it works here. And so I am very thankful for that. And with Veterans Day being tomorrow, I’m thankful for every person that has ever sacrificed their life, their family, their ability to be a civilian, to be able to protect those rights and freedoms.

So I just wanted to, and we should have done that

Chris Gazdik: off the top of the show, frankly bad on me because thank you’ve also for voting. Yeah. Those that did. It’s

important.

Kasie Morgan: Absolutely. But, but what I do think is really interesting about politics and how we got here is I do think that whenever there are things going on, The hot button political issues, which typically are divided into two categories, [00:29:00] fiscal categories, and social categories.

Right? So a lot of it is economics and a lot of it are hot button social issues. Yeah. So when you do that, you are automatically gonna cause a divisive reaction in the country. Like there, there’s not gonna be a moderate way forward through any of those issues. Those issues are polarizing. So when they come up for debate and when they come up for discussion, there’s not a way necessarily to move forward politically in that discussion without choosing a side.

And if you land in the middle, you are no longer a friend to either person. And so that’s what I think is hard about it, is that if you want to be more moderate or in the center periphery, People are going to attempt to pull you in one direction or the other. And with our current political climate, what you have to do in a two party system a lot of times is that either you vote for the independent, where you feel like your vote [00:30:00] doesn’t matter, or you have to then align yourself with other things that you’re weary of in order to vote for a candidate that’s more in alignment with what you’re in alignment.

So

John-Nelson Pope: in other words, it’s a coalition. It is. Of getting people together.

Chris Gazdik: I disagree. I think Go for it. Let’s

Kasie Morgan: dance . I mean we can all night sugar. I think

Chris Gazdik: here. Here’s what I mean. As you were talking you, I was like okay. Yeah, I’m there. I mean, think about a marriage couple and we do this all the time and finances come up in marriage couple.

I I, I would like to believe and I have seen and participate in financial discussions that aren’t. This side or that side. And that’s one of the things that I love about Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University. He takes the emotions of the issue, which we all know, tears couples up. I mean, it is divisive a lot of the times.

It is. I’m right, you are wrong. Kind of a a a a [00:31:00] a mentality. But what do we do in couples counseling? That’s why I. You know, your marriage thing. I mean, I was totally a part of my brainstorm with this topic. Mm-hmm. , can we not have a conversation about social security, where we’re all engaged in the conversation with the common goal of what’s the best option here?

You have some good ideas with this system. I have some good ideas with this system, and I think this is why we have the split party that always happens after we vote in a particular party, we then go and and split up the house, so it’s a different party, like people like that in our government. I know that that has been found in surveys.

We can have those discussions and we can get to a place where we can have respect and kindness and caring and love while we have those discussions. Could we do that in marriages successfully?

Kasie Morgan: I mean, on a micro level you can. Yeah. Well, but on a macro level, no, I don’t agree because on a macro level, One, there’s a lot of things that can unfold here, right?

And I don’t want to get into the weeds about career politicians and things like that, right? [00:32:00] That’s that we can do, There’s a lot of things that can transpire from this conversation, but on a macro level, at some point there is a choice that we make when we vote. And that choice is based on how we personally feel about the candidate’s platform on the issues that I’m talking about.

Like that’s how you vote. You can’t sit there and say, Well, this person looks like they would converse really well with this other person across the aisle. Let me figure out if they’re gonna be able to have conversation. Oh, we, okay.

Chris Gazdik: You’re saying as the citizen, it places us in the

Kasie Morgan: position of, Right. So I, I think on a micro level, we can have those dis discourses and conversations.

On a macro level, you really do have to think about the impact of what your choice is going to have on the, the total. Country as a whole when you’re voting. Okay.

Chris Gazdik: I misunderstood what you were saying a little bit, but I, Yeah, we’re still looking for our leaders to, to do that a little bit. John, what are you thinking of?

Well, I,

John-Nelson Pope: I was going back [00:33:00] to social security

Kasie Morgan: and, Cause you’re the only one of us that’s on it and I was

not, Not

Chris Gazdik: yet,

John-Nelson Pope: not yet. I’m just joking.

Chris Gazdik: Not yet. Getting

Kasie Morgan: there. We may not even get it. So like, Hey, you know what? You

Chris Gazdik: know what?

John-Nelson Pope: I deserve it. You do too. I’m into it. You do.

Chris Gazdik: So, okay. Let me make a, a quick point before you go, John Uhhuh. And the reason being, and again, another foreshadowing to sprinkle into our conversation, Can we not laugh about this stuff and have humor and have fun like we just did.

It diminish laughing. The energy and visceral nature of what it is that you’re talking about. You were too sir,

John-Nelson Pope: Sir. I was laughing, but. I was gonna go back to the mid two thousands and George W. Bush offered a social security idea and it was in the middle. And unfortunately people on both sides obliterated him.

Obliterated him. [00:34:00] He lost a lot of support. Really? And a lot of

Chris Gazdik: political capital. I do not recall this, but it’s fine.

John-Nelson Pope: Well, you were just a youngster then with

Chris Gazdik: Bush, Senior or junior? Junior, Junior. Yeah. I wasn’t a youngster. Yes, you

were.

John-Nelson Pope: You were like 30

Chris Gazdik: or so. Okay. Well, I paid a, That’s a youngster then.

John-Nelson Pope: Jerry is a baby. I’m pulling your chain youngster. Yeah. Yeah. But, but that was a, that was a big controversy and he got obliterated for it. Mm-hmm. . And he was seen as somebody you’re trying to take away social security. Yeah. For the seniors and, and the other people said, Well, this isn’t far enough and it needs to be privatized.

Well, the reality is, is that we are now kicking the can down the road. And in fact, Kasie’s generation may not get social security because the fact we didn’t make the hard choices 20 years ago or 30 years ago. Cause that [00:35:00] was an argument even in the eighties when you were just a really

Chris Gazdik: a kid. So how do we get to a place where, and Kasie, I guess I would come back to you and ask, right?

Like, how then do we as citizenry, you know, kind of manage the mental health with that? If you, if you do feel, and now that I understand your, your point a little better, you know, In that position or in that that role? A little bit. Like there’s gotta be, you know, and maybe I’m getting ahead of us, but some coping with that because that’s tough.

There does.

Kasie Morgan: And so I think that, like from my perspective as a therapist, like it’s really about delving into the undercurrent of the issues. Like what is it that is personally activating you towards these topics. Like when I have somebody in office, they’re clearly scared about the political impact, about their, their family, what it means for them, what it means for the future.

Then we kind of delve into taking politics almost out of the equation and talking about. What are [00:36:00] the actual issues here? You know, it’s really easy, and to be honest, as a white heterosexual female, to have my own assumptions and talk about my own politics in my, my life, because my experiences are vastly different than anybody else that would be outside of my demographic.

Just like your experiences and just like John’s experiences, even the three of us in this room, we’re not even fairly representing the vast majority of the United States of America. Right. I guess. I guess you’re not in the room, Neil. Sorry, Neil. Neil’s also here, but the four of us in this space, we don’t even like demographically represent everyone that votes or everyone that has.

An agenda or issue or, or things that are really hot button topics. And so I think it’s a human emotional experience to almost take politics out of it so that we can connect on a humanistic level and talk about what is really going on with you. Because the truth is, is that our politics may be different, but our emotional experience can be very congruent in [00:37:00] a space to be able to talk through what it is that you’re dealing with.

And people have

Chris Gazdik: lost the ability to cope. Yes, to some extent, yes. I would maintain, you know. Interesting. Let me, let me, let me move to a quick little section that I wanted to do with the question to our, to our, for our conversation. Again, I see the way politics are and the way that I defined it earlier.

So in a way, we’ve all studied group dynamics. Mm-hmm. , we know this from our groups class. Right. You know, and our coursework and our, our research and training is this not like group dynamics, basically 1 0 1 as sociology 1 0 1 on a macro level. I mean, you remember forming, storming, norming, performing, right?

Oh, she says pla right. Gerald. Corey, That’s So

Kasie Morgan: Corey. Group Dynamics. Group Dynamics. I saw that book on my

John-Nelson Pope: show. You have ya too. Yeah,

Chris Gazdik: I got

Kasie Morgan: ya. I, I really FaceTimed him with a group from my graduate class. Irv Ya. Only a

Chris Gazdik: [00:38:00] therapist would be wide open eyes excited about it. A facet timing with Yalum. I met Corey.

Did you really? Yes I did. Oh, that’s

John-Nelson Pope: super cool. He came to my my presentation. Wow.

Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Yeah. These are at a, these are real people, right? And

John-Nelson Pope: very nice, gentle. He and his wife are very gentle, wonderful, authentic

Chris Gazdik: people. Think of these listed things of group dynamics. So the listening audience obviously didn’t take classes or meet yalum and all this stuff, but it’s like, look at this through the, this lens for a moment.

Just listen to these concepts, right? That you, that we work with in groups. Like when we lead groups, therapy groups, oftentimes therapists are great at your Cub Scouts or various organizations that we are engaged in. I mean, your therapeutic knowledge, John, and makes you an amazing pastor, I’m sure with the group, because we’ve studied this stuff.

So listen group think is a concept in groups. Mm-hmm. Power Exchange in groups with [00:39:00] informal power. Informal power, the group norms that you develop, the group rules that you develop. Those stages of group development that Kasie went, blah on forming it, storming, norming, performing, celebration, and finishing.

Those are like in the life of the group. What happens Group roles? Your role in the group levels of cohesiveness, Right. From the article, I forgot some. There’s a cool article that we have. They pointed out how to turn groups into effective teams. We deal with clearing expectations. We deal with clearing up the level of commitment and dealing with levels of competence.

No Biden jokes, please. . Control, collaboration, communication, creativity, and coordination. That was a

Kasie Morgan: lot of alliteration that you just did

Chris Gazdik: there. Well, the so, and and, and We’re not gonna do a class on group dynamics here for. Or through a [00:40:00] therapist, tribe, because it would be too much time. But my point is we know and you can research these things.

I got a couple cool articles that’ll give you really good basis points of the spine and skeletal system of how do groups work. We know this. Can we not apply this to how we’ve gotten off the track with this in our politics? No.

Kasie Morgan: What. Because of all the external influences. You know, we often talk in therapy about internal and external locuses of control.

And again, I don’t wanna divert the conversation and start talking about the things that are outside of the political realm that influence the political realm. But I think that that is part of the issue, is that one, we don’t have appropriate ways to discourse. So on an individual level, we can get.

Politically in talking about politics on a macro level, I think that’s exponentially difficult because he who holds the money holds [00:41:00] power and that’s what influences the platforms. That’s what influences even down to the debate In presidential psychology, I can tell you that down to the tie that you wear in the contrast it has to, Your shirt is a big point of inference, even when you go on a political size debate on tv.

So when we are at that level of specificity in trying to influence votes, in trying to influence individuals and how to vote when we’re canvassing neighborhoods, when we have ex-professional athletes calling people on the phone to say, You need to go vote. When we have people out of state calling you on the phone, say, Give $40 to this campaign in Georgia because we need this seat, Like that is a problem.

I could go on forever. I will not, but that’s a

Chris Gazdik: problem. So what are you thinking with your, to affect that academic sociology kind of thinking there? Well,

John-Nelson Pope: I, I, I understand Kasie what you’re saying, but that’s been going on forever. Sure. [00:42:00] Since the media, and I talked about Ooan earlier, cuz he was, he was very much involved with, with that understanding in terms of, of does the person, for example, back in 1960 with the debate between Kennedy and Nixon.

Yeah. Nixon’s. He perspired, he sweat, he was everywhere and people did not like it because, and he had this five o’clock shadow and here was Jack Kennedy and he was just handsome, photogenic, and all of that. So it’s been going on for 60 years, essentially.

Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Honestly, I would submit to you that a lot of this is nothing new.

Uhhuh. I think the, the, the politics in, in, in Roman times, you know, probably operated a lot of that. What to did you wear, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. , how shiny is your sword? What is your, you know, whatever, what are your, what are your sandals, right? That this is group dynamics, this is the way that we operate.

Exactly. Said people forget how, [00:43:00] how, how, not new. That is

John-Nelson Pope: the, the one of the things. And, but there’s also a cycle that I see in history and there was for example Donald Trump. He admired who? Of a president? Which president

Kasie Morgan: and, Oh, I was gonna say himself, .

John-Nelson Pope: Well, he was the great, Yeah, no,

Chris Gazdik: no, no political statement there.

No, no. I mean, I would like, I that was in political sense. Andrew

John-Nelson Pope: Jackson. Andrew Jackson. And Andrew Jackson was this wilderness guy. He was out from the frontier, which was Tennessee. And he came in and he was, he was the one, he was the hero of the battle of New Orleans. Yeah. And so he, and he, he quelled the the uprisings in Florida between the, the Native Americans there and in Georgia.

Yeah. There were raids going on and he went down in, in there. And so that was going on. And so, [00:44:00] and then after he left it, the wigs came into power. Yeah. And things were. Very conservative and very mild. And then it, and then of course it ran up into the Civil War. And then there was, Well,

Chris Gazdik: again, I, I, I can, I can look at the, like from the very first president we had in the States, the, the George Washington was probably our first president because he was tall in stature, very clean cut, very well dressed, very mannered.

I, I don’t think he was very tall. I, am I wrong? No, I thought he was sure he was. Oh, was he? Yeah. Yeah. He was a very tall of stature dude. Swear. That’s why, you know, the, the rebel that was the, the Revolution Army. I mean, they were a rebel. They were neither, barely had uniforms away. And he would strive in and.

Boom. Like, and here

John-Nelson Pope: he was and he was physically brave. Mm-hmm. . And that he, there

Chris Gazdik: was a lot of other things to go with it too. Sure. But my point is like, this isn’t new people. We get [00:45:00] so fearful about some of these things and it’s just, to me it’s like, it’s good old fashioned group dynamics. It’s the way that human beings operate together.

Kasie Morgan: It it, But see, I think that that simplifies it too much for some people that I have in my, maybe needed Kasie . I mean, maybe so because, and I said my house, but I mean my office. But like, Oh, you

Chris Gazdik: see clients at your house?

Kasie Morgan: Oh dear. Negative ghost writer. Negative. Talk about that negative ghost writer. But I, I, the reason why I feel like it simplifies it too much is because I think, and maybe you are gonna make this point, but I, but I do think that the political climate of today has so many.

Variances of issues. And I did not come, I wasn’t alive during civil rights. So I don’t know, like during that movement, what that was like to be in the political climate. And you mean

Chris Gazdik: of course the, the thrust of civil

Kasie Morgan: rights. The thrust of civil rights in the sixties. Right. But what I do know is that when people’s rights are called into question, when people’s bodies are called into question, [00:46:00] when all those hot political social agenda issues are called into question, it is not emotionally safe.

For some people, it does not feel emotionally secure and emotionally safe for a lot of people today. And I understand when they come to me, why they are having visceral reactions based on the inputs that they’re getting. And secondary trauma. Secondary trauma, Yeah. For. Experiences it is to trauma because what happens today will impact me tomorrow or will impact my kids, or could impact myself or could impact my relationship.

Is my marriage gonna be valid? Is my, you know, are my children gonna be accepted? Is this adoption gonna be legitimized because it was to a same sex couple? Like there’s so many emotionally charging issues that are happening. The thing that ticks me off about the political. Is they use a lot of that stuff to keep you emotionally charged because it sells.

Because it sells and because [00:47:00] it is a good way to sneak in secondary issues. And that’s not a conspiracy theory. This is actually legit truth. When I was on a political committee at Western Carolina University, goca amounts we got tacked on to a bill at the state level where NC State was making a, a centennial campus and we were gonna make a millennial campus, and we just shoved like policy in there and got it approved.

And that’s what happens is like you keep ’em focused on one thing and then you just start undermining everything else. So

John-Nelson Pope: in other words, you, you use distraction,

Kasie Morgan: right? The techniques of distraction. Yeah. Okay.

Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Which is part, again, of, of human behavior. You know, This is, this is not. I think part of what I’d like to accomplish with this show is, is to, to bring everybody’s temperature down a little bit in realizing that, look, look, this is, this is human beings.

Being human beings. We’re still human beings and we still do the [00:48:00] things that human beings do. Mm-hmm. , and this is the way that we interact and, and it’s not neat and pretty and tidy. Like we would like to myopically think that it would be, it, it, it’s, it’s, it’s rocky. It’s messy. It’s, you go back and forth and, and that’s okay.

That’s okay.

John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. Now here’s a, here’s an observation. Okay. Okay. West Virginia and Kentucky were coal mining producing areas. Yes. And the constituency of Joe Biden, for example is that we’re not gonna do any fracking. We’re not gonna do any more drilling. Now, that’s not necessarily, I’m, I’m just stating that.

Paraphrasing broad broads. Broads. Okay. Just paraphrasing. Okay. Gonna be very careful

Chris Gazdik: about that. But because we in West Virginia don’t like him around here when they do that, Yeah. But you also,

John-Nelson Pope: But part of that is people’s livelihoods are at stake. And that was my point. Mm-hmm. . Okay. And, and so they’re gonna be people that may not be attracted [00:49:00] to, let’s say an authoritarian type of presidential leader.

Very triggered to use the word. Yeah. Very tri. Yeah. But they will say, I have to support this person because that person will defend my right to make a living. Right. You know?

Kasie Morgan: Yeah, and that’s what I was speaking to earlier is that yes, you can say all day like I am, you know, I’m gonna be moderate about this.

I’m gonna think through this, and things like that. But at the end of the day, If it messes, no issues come up. If it messes with your bank account, your bedroom, your church, your school, or your livelihood, you are going to be charged. I

John-Nelson Pope: think that may be one reason why Covid was such a, a, a problem.

Chris Gazdik: Correct.

And the thing that’s going on right now with abortion is, is, is really bubbling up in a big way. Okay. Look, so real quick, I wanna say, what is the, I’m you’re wrong.

Kasie Morgan: Boom. Right, right. Might drop on that. I know, right?

Chris Gazdik: Closing statements. Yeah. So what is the problem? And then I [00:50:00] want you guys to think about, we have good time to, to really focus on what did the therapists say about coping with mental health.

But first, what is the problem? It was interesting, this article, Kasie, that I found because they, the title, the part. Article that I was checking out and titles how the stress of political unal erodes resilience. Correct. Right. And that was a, a cool thing. And what they said, What are, what are the real problems?

Fatigue. What was the name of, What was the name of that? I don’t know. Somewhere in Newport New. No, no, it was okay. Yeah. So from the article, they point out the, the problem parts. Again, you guys are thinking about what are really the therapeutic suggestions you would make. Mm-hmm. , we’ve talked about some, but fatigue, apathy, languishing, increased substance abuse, anger and irritation, problem sleeping, chronic pain, trouble concentrating, volatile emotions, decreased motivation, depression, course anxiety, and worrying like these are, these are what the outcomes are.

This is [00:51:00] why people are so glad that all these dagum articles are all advertisements are over. Except for the poor people down in Georgia, we were saying, right, it’s a rainy night

John-Nelson Pope: in Georgia. They

Chris Gazdik: got a whole nother month to get

Kasie Morgan: on the midnight train. Come to North Carolina, we’re done. They gotta change

Chris Gazdik: that statute down there, boy, I tell you.

But folks, this is real. And the point is, we are seeing this clinically now more, and I think we all agreed than we ever had before something’s going on that we need to research and understand on the emotional level for the individual person. So what are some of the solutions? What do you guys have off the top of your heads?

What do we do about this? How do we cope? Right?

John-Nelson Pope: Take a break. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. I think we, we have to take a break and I think it’s, it, once you get kind of addicted to, well, you kinda get addicted to the adrenaline rush that comes with saying you get your blood pressure up in a [00:52:00] negative way or in a positive way.

And, but it still has the same effect on the body and it takes a toll. And so one thing I would advise is just step back. Mm-hmm. got, If you could step back and don’t pick up the phone. Don’t look, don’t only use the phone for what it was originally intended as God intended it as a phone instead of using it with a smart screen.

God intended

Chris Gazdik: it that way. It was intended to be .

John-Nelson Pope: You see it in the Sistine Chapel, you know, But, but my point is, It is to really take a break.

Chris Gazdik: It’s huge. It’s my number one suggestion.

Kasie Morgan: Yeah. Earlier say, check yourself before you wreck yourself. You love that phrase, don’t you? I love that phrase because it’s so true,

It’s so true. That’s so, you’re eloquent because the truth is, is that before you make a post, before you pick up the phone, [00:53:00] before you put it out there, check in with yourself and ask yourself, Where am I right now? And why am I feeling this way?

John-Nelson Pope: Well, I would agree with you on that because I have students that are very passionate and they will or if they feel something is, or they think something is unfair or unjust, they’ll just write down exactly what they think immediately and send it off, and they can get in trouble for

Kasie Morgan: that.

Yeah, and and I would even go to say like, I’ve been parts of groups before where we’ve disagreed. Politically and on their individual social medias posting things that are really innocent things to post. Yeah. But, But posting things like, if you believe this way, we’re not friends, but I’m your friend and I see you post this on your social media.

Yeah. We just talked about it. So how do I feel now? Yeah. That you’re making a public and very visible statement that if you’re not this, then we are not this. See, that’s

Chris Gazdik: honestly, [00:54:00] check yourself. Yeah. It’s my second biggest component I think in suggestion is, The same thing with social medias and stuff.

There’s this human phenomenon since around 2001 with nine 11 and around the world they’ve experienced, We’ve all experienced this of connecting with, talking about using our primary mechanism of expression through a screen. I don’t think that’s bad. Let me be clearer about my suggestion here. That is a very fine, appropriate and wonderful thing to do.

I am not Same room. Well, yeah, probably not in the same room. Say it Lala, but no, like, but we have got to learn how to do that. Check yourself before you wreck yourself as the way you’re putting that. Mm-hmm. Kasie. And people will say things on the screen that they wouldn’t say in person. They’re keyboard warriors.

A, a social media. Rule it’s control that we have got to learn [00:55:00] is that you only say on there what you would say face to face and really pay attention to yourself about

John-Nelson Pope: that. Are you saying we should have some filters?

Chris Gazdik: Yes. For crying out loud.

Kasie Morgan: Have you seen my photos? They’re all filters. Oh, .

Chris Gazdik: Just kidding.

Perfect. Perfect.

John-Nelson Pope: You see with me just this big light, shiny,

Chris Gazdik: very unfiltered, right? Unfiltered. Yeah. Those are really important suggestions. I, I think in interest of time, let me, because I have the, the power of cheating and you guys have to be caught cold. Where is it at? So my list of thought about this was thinking about conflict resolution, you know, marriage, friendships, business partners, you know, where we tend to struggle.

These are, these are sort of a, a microcosm I want you to think about in the way of how do you manage these topics. Yeah. Limits are crucial in today’s world. That was on my brainstorm and I think we all hit that. John, you [00:56:00] front do face to face conversations, all caps. I said only that. I don’t know that I wanna totally stand by that because social media could be great in using it appropriately.

We just, we just have no idea psychologically how to do that as human beings yet, cuz it’s so new. So stay patient. We’re learning. Vote. If you’re in a place where you can around the world and, and if you think about it, this provides. Empowerment. This provides an exercise of control. Guess what that does to your mental health?

Voting actually improves your mental health. I would make it, I would agree.

John-Nelson Pope: Right.

Chris Gazdik: Definitely. Taking actions otherwise, you know, again, you see the

John-Nelson Pope: common humanity. If you’re standing in a line and you’re voting yes, you share that common humanity and whether they agree with you or not, there’s that humanity there.

Chris Gazdik: That, and, and you know what’s funny, John? I didn’t say this cuz I was afraid of the time and, but I’ll go back to [00:57:00] it in, in my random thoughts off the get go. How did I write that? Just finding it real quick. Do you feel a part of the group? Well, then you’re good to go. Mm-hmm. , you’re part of the country.

If you’re active, you know, you’re at least a part of it. You’re gonna feel a lot better. If you feel apart from the group, you’re doomed. I’m helpless. I don’t wanna vote. I’m inundated with all this stuff. I don’t wanna party. It’s, it’s terrible. You’re doomed because you’re isolated and you’re, and you’re alone.

Mm-hmm. is, is, Yeah. What we’re highlighting there, just to finish my list join other groups as to not be alone again. Mm-hmm. , I think we feel so alone and, and then practicing a concept of acceptance. One more, John, and this actually comes from you. The last thing on my brainstorm that actually came from our marriage group mm-hmm.

or marriage discussion that we had. You said the foundations of marriage were, Do you remember mm-hmm. Service. Service, Yeah. Right. If we as a group, [00:58:00] whatever country you might be, wherever you are around the world, if we come at this from a place of service, your political discussions, thought process, emotional experience is going to be way better.

Mm-hmm. , unfortunately, that’s battled with greed, which probably way more common. What do y’all think? Does that trigger any thoughts? John, will, you had had some thoughts or what, what, what is this? No, I was just thinking

John-Nelson Pope: tomorrow is Veteran’s Day and I, the VA itself, funnily enough, will be closed. But would, when I go to, to the VA for many of my appointments, my mini appointments, I see people that are have high and tights.

I have I see people that have long hair. I’ve seen people that have had,

Chris Gazdik: You said high and tights? Yeah,

Kasie Morgan: like the box cut high and tight.

Chris Gazdik: Yeah. I don’t even know. Oh, hindsight. Like a Marine,

John-Nelson Pope: Marine core haircut. As it should be. As it should be. [00:59:00] And but I’ve also had veterans that have had gender reassign.

That I, Yeah. And, and, and the thing is, is that we’ve all been in a common vision of America, and we have believed in its principles. We didn’t just do it to get an education, though, that some people say that, but we did it to serve our country something greater than ourselves. And we need to do that more in our civil life as well.

And so, I, I have service, service, I have a, i, I have many brothers and sisters that have served in the military. And I’m not related to the, my blood or color. I’m related to them because we, we followed a common principle of service of something greater than ourselves.

Chris Gazdik: John, I usually think about summing up the show, but I, you know, that, I think, honestly, I wanna honor that by saying that is a perfect summary.

And [01:00:00] again, thank you for your service. I, I can’t think of a better way. I know we might be a few minutes early, but that’s, I think that’s honestly the way that we need to end sir. Amen. Thank you for that guys. We got through the political system, the events soon enough, Georgia will be done and around the world, you do yours.

Thank you John, and once again guys, take care and thank you guys. Yeah.