Another month in the books with the TATE Panel. We go over the shows on Religious Trauma, How to Accept Yourself, and Political Trauma. Which show stood out to you the most? Do you agree with the panels thought about where they landed on the topics?
Tune in to see November Month in Review Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
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Episode #208 Transcription
[00:00:00] Chris Gazdik: Hello everybody and welcome to another edition of Through a Therapist’s Eyes. We’ve got Mr. Neil Robinson in front of the camera instead of behind the scenes for the month in review. How you don’t sir? I am doing fantastic. Fantastic. And we’ve got the monthly man now, I guess is what I might call you, Mr.
Adam Cloninger. How are you sir? I’m wonderful. Did y’all have a good Thanksgiving?
[00:00:28] Adam Cloninger: Did, did
[00:00:29] Chris Gazdik: wonderful. Yeah. I cooked the best deep fried Turkey I think I’ve ever made. I was very, very happy this year. I literally cut against the grain, the dark meat with a fork.
[00:00:39] Adam Cloninger: He makes a mean fried Turkey too. I’ve had it before.
Does he?
[00:00:42] Chris Gazdik: Yes, it was. It was pretty, what did I say? Chicken. You said fried Turkey.
[00:00:46] Adam Cloninger: Okay. You said Turkey.
[00:00:47] Neil Robinson: Yeah, I’m just, I just didn’t get invited, so I wouldn’t know. I don’t have, this year
[00:00:51] Adam Cloninger: is has been like
[00:00:53] Chris Gazdik: what, three years ago? Was it that long? Good lord. Time just blows. When’s the last time you
[00:00:58] Adam Cloninger: cooked your fried Turkey?
And maybe
[00:01:00] Chris Gazdik: so think about about three years ago. Yeah. Cuz we’ve gotten, we’re eating out stuff for Thanksgiving. I think it was three years ago. Mm-hmm. . So this is the review November month in review episode where you get us kind of rapping about all the content that we had. I think we’re gonna get you know, some good coverage of all the shows.
So get used to this at the end of the month, the last week of the month, we do this and cover kind of all of it in, in shorter fashion and kind of see where we landed on each show. So the three shows that we’re gonna be hitting tonight were religious trauma. The effect on people. And then politics and a mental health.
Is it a, is it a thing? Mental health, trauma with politics? And the last one was, if I’m correct, how to Accept yourself. How to Accept ourselves. And that was actually, well, I shouldn’t say that cuz I’ll, I’ll poison a thing. But this is where you get insight from a therapist and better insight from Neil and Adam about all of our topics.
Being aware is not delivery of therapy services in any way. We’re gonna have a YouTube live thing in combination of the Facebook thing. Soon we have the book out. Understanding re there it is, therapist through a therapist size. That’s why you wanted to book. That’s, I wonder what you were doing, . I did this on
[00:02:16] Adam Cloninger: my own.
He didn’t ask me
[00:02:17] Chris Gazdik: to. re-understanding emotions and becoming your best self. Listen, it really helps us to get reviews on Apple iTunes, write a review, get the five star things, click the little clicky things that have us a thumbs up and all that kind of stuff. This is the human emotional experience, which we endeavor to figure out together.
So let’s jump to the game that I want to kind of kick into. Once a month, the game is what was your favorite of the three shows? The debate Mr. Adams says. Mr. Neil says, let’s come to a conclusion. I almost ruin it because I have a clear front runner and and front runner in my mind.
[00:02:54] Adam Cloninger: How to accept yourself.
[00:02:58] Neil Robinson: I think I like, Ooh, I like one of the trauma ones. I like the excitement. I would probably say, I like the political trauma one this time. Wow. I thought
[00:03:07] Chris Gazdik: we were gonna have an easy consensus this time.
[00:03:10] Neil Robinson: I just, I think the political one is such a big deal nowadays that I think, I don’t know. I just, I like that content because it is so prevalent nowadays.
But I think I would say that how to accept yourself would be a close second because of the podcast and what it is. But yeah, and,
[00:03:24] Chris Gazdik: and it just, I’ve thought that one, because, I mean, it just affects so many people. I mean, if, if you can learn how to accept yourself, it addresses probably 90% of the stuff that, you know, we deal with it.
It’s a big part of mental health. I mean, it’s just a huge part of mental health. But it’s interesting. I, I love your choice, Neil, because people are afraid to talk about politics. And I hate
[00:03:47] Adam Cloninger: talking about politics, right. Or
[00:03:49] Chris Gazdik: religion. But it’s an important I do, I do,
[00:03:52] Adam Cloninger: man. People get upset. You, I mean,
[00:03:56] Neil Robinson: so, so, so you think the trauma aspect was actually like warranted?
You believe in that? Political trauma
[00:04:02] Chris Gazdik: and religious trauma. We, we got two trauma shows. Yeah.
[00:04:04] Neil Robinson: Well, we’ll, aren’t we gonna go over there in a minute? We will. Okay.
[00:04:07] Chris Gazdik: But, but, but this is the, the part of which one did you like the best? So he’s posing a question. No, but I’m still saying
[00:04:13] Adam Cloninger: how to accept yourself.
Yeah, that’s
[00:04:15] Chris Gazdik: what I say. Yeah, but you were saying Neil asking him if he likes the trauma. I didn’t understand your question. Well,
[00:04:22] Neil Robinson: he would, I basically said that he would basically agree with the religious and political trauma cuz he doesn’t like talking to people about it. He, he’s trying to suggest
[00:04:29] Adam Cloninger: that I’m going through trauma and that’s why I don’t wanna talk about it.
But that’s not the case at
[00:04:32] Chris Gazdik: all. . Well, it’s interesting. I’m gonna love to hear your feedback on a comment on when we get to where we landed on the first show. So, but we, man, what are we gonna do if we don’t have a consensus? Like who wins? I think you, I think you win Adam cuz I, I joined your, your side of the, the, the, well, I mean
[00:04:49] Neil Robinson: it’s, it’s, we don’t have a even number so there is, there has to be a winner.
Yeah. Well I guess it doesn’t, there could be three different, could be three. Yeah, it could
[00:04:56] Chris Gazdik: be three. We need to track this. We
[00:05:00] Neil Robinson: probably should eventually, and I’d like to get polls up and see what the audience says. You know, see what the Oh,
[00:05:04] Chris Gazdik: absolutely. This, this is one where we need do a poll. That, that’d be great.
We absolutely need to do it. Poll, didn’t I
[00:05:09] Adam Cloninger: just be reading off the results of the poll?
[00:05:11] Chris Gazdik: Mm-hmm. . Yeah, I, you know how to do that, I suppose. I’m sure I can figure it out. I, I know
[00:05:17] Adam Cloninger: you Can you have it for, for next episode? Sure.
[00:05:21] Chris Gazdik: So we’ll have a poll and you can play along before next, next month’s review. So let’s go to the first one.
This first one was episode, no, not 2 0 8. Yeah, it was No.
[00:05:32] Adam Cloninger: 2 0 3. 2 0 3. This is
[00:05:34] Chris Gazdik: 2 0 8 oh, episodes 2 0 8 is today. Yeah, you’re right. I’m getting used to my show notes. The show notes in this whole process is very, very different. Which I guess I should give a qualifier. I got some feedback after the first month in review and they felt it was a little bit like sporadic and difficult to follow.
So this is a very different show. The audience, bear with us for just a bit, cuz I even, my show notes are very, very different. They’re organized different, our conversation’s different, but bear with it because I really think it’s gonna be the favorite show, like I said, because you can catch all of the content basically from this one show of the month.
But, but it’s just, it’s weird for us, I think and I’ve been doing this for two, three years or whatever. So to do something totally different like that is, is,
[00:06:13] Neil Robinson: it’s been over three, just so you know. It was July, 2019. I look back on our, our lipson and yeah, it was, it was all the way back to July, 2019 was like the first postings
[00:06:23] Chris Gazdik: when Craig and I.
Dang. Yeah, it time flies, man. All right, so the first of the three shows was episode 2 0 3, religious Trauma, the Effect on People, and the three questions that we had there that went with that is, do you know what a cult is? Can you imagine being caught up in a cult or in religious trauma? And then, you know, how do you recover from it?
That that was the thrust of what I wanted people to be thinking about. Right. So what do you think about this show? What did you think? I mean, to me it is a show that’s pretty. So we did, we did shows on religion before, but tried to take an angle. John and I talked about it from a standpoint of just even modern day traditional church experiences that people really get caught up into just bad or rough experiences in these things.
And so I, I, I, I was really excited to talk about it with John. Cause you know, he is a preacher. Did you know that? I did. Yeah. Yeah. He’s, he’s a, he’s a Navy Chapman and he’s a, I think he’s a Presbyterian preacher and he had a lot of really good thoughts through, through that episode. So what’d you guys think about that episode?
What, what do you think?
[00:07:38] Neil Robinson: You can you feel free? Go ahead if you want to. . I’m trying to let the guy who loves talking about religion go first. No, I
don’t
[00:07:44] Adam Cloninger: like talking about religion. Religion or, or politics. I think
[00:07:48] Neil Robinson: we’ll be careful talking about that stuff cause
[00:07:50] Adam Cloninger: upset. I mean you gotta be careful about when you talk about things like it.
Cause I think humans in general like to think that the people that are around that, you know, that gravitate, they gravitate to are like-minded. And you gotta be careful about that. Cause sometimes you say stuff or may say stuff not realizing you may offend somebody. they in the room or whatever. So you gotta be careful about
[00:08:10] Neil Robinson: that.
Yeah. And as no one talks about it anymore, you don’t really know what people’s views are anymore. Right. That’s another thing, but you don’t know what their views are,
[00:08:16] Chris Gazdik: and you also don’t know what their experiences are. I feel like that there is a major silo issue and will repeat that concept with the political trauma thing.
But the, the, the reality of it is there have been people that have been massively harmed by this issue. And you’re right, Adam, it’s almost like a developing increased layer of like, I ain’t talking about that. And I think it traps people in, into worse mental health. And the, it’s interesting. I mean, the, the thought that I have actually right now is, John kind of mentioned in one of our shows recently that the influence of religious experience has gone down in our society.
And consequently, you know, when you have mental health trouble in that area, Then, you know, you, you, you even more very much can’t say anything about it. But, no, I think, I think he said,
[00:09:04] Adam Cloninger: didn’t he say the the number of people that are religious have decreased as Yeah,
[00:09:08] Chris Gazdik: yeah, yeah. And it was during the political show because now they, they’re taking politics like a religion is what
[00:09:13] Adam Cloninger: it was.
But
[00:09:14] Neil Robinson: I can say that I think the interesting thing about the show that was kind of neat, was it religious trauma doesn’t. Just isn’t contained within, like Colts. And I think that’s the part that people don’t under, you know, they, they don’t understand. But when you look at it from the outside looking in and you talk to your friends that we talked about, like, I don’t go to church because of this one experience, or I don’t go to church because this happened to me, or something like that.
It’s, it’s really interesting that even normal, your traditional churches, whether it’s you know, Christian, Catholic or whatever, they are very, there’s always that experience, like you said Chris, everyone experiences it differently. And so I could go to one church and have a great time where someone else could say, yeah, I didn’t like it because so someone in the congregation said something or did something.
Or, or in John’s case he talked about that there was someone that was doing stuff bad, you know, as a, into the congregation. And you always have that because there’s people in churches and not all people are good.
[00:10:13] Chris Gazdik: Well, that’s one of the reasons why I put that question right. Can you imagine being caught up in this?
And I, and I think that, What I really wanted to trigger the thoughts about as we went through that topic. This really affects a massively large swath of people that I don’t think you would consider yourself in that process. And it isn’t just being in a cult. I mean, that’s, you know, which is interesting cuz the other question was, you know, do you even know what a cult is?
Which I think we covered, you know, before on this show, but did a good job in the beginning, front end of that. But, but this was really targeted. All those of us that are very much like sleuth in our own mind about the, the, the frustration that we have or, or the, the distrust that we have and, you know, organize religion and, and that type of a thing.
And so this affects you out there. I’m thinking if you have discomfort with church, I’m thinking it affects you.
[00:11:12] Neil Robinson: Yeah, I, I agree with that. I mean that there’s a lot of people that just don’t go to church because. They have some bad taste in their mouth about something or, or a bad or a bad preconceived notion about what they think it’s gonna be like.
Cause I think that’s all, I almost feel like there’s almost that too. Some people haven’t experienced it because, but they’ve heard people talk about it and so it’s almost like, Trauma by proxy sort of thing? Well, vicarious
[00:11:37] Chris Gazdik: trauma, yeah, we talk about that for sure.
[00:11:39] Neil Robinson: That’s, that’s the term. I couldn’t think of what, yeah, I feel like that’s almost the bigger issue now is like, because a couple people have bad experiences, they talk about it, so then other people don’t want to go because so and so has said they had this experience with it.
And you know, I, I think this does go back to, you know, people not following organized religion anymore or it’s become no longer the thing to. And I think that does go back to some of the downfall in some of society because they don’t have that outward faith or that, that something there to go to.
[00:12:09] Chris Gazdik: It’s an important topic.
I didn’t say this on that show, but part of the cool month in review, I get to think of things that I didn’t say, but honestly, everything I know about mental health goes parallel with everything. At least in a Judeo-Christian kind of view that I’ve kind of been a part of in my own journey is parallel.
I I, you know, the suggestions that are there, the, the, the ideas that are there, it’s exactly parallel. There’s, there’s really, I’m not gonna say none, but there are very few, if any, inconsistencies about what you learn about living in religious circles and what you learn about living in mental health circles.
Almost a perfect parallel to be. So I’m jumping the gun a little bit just because I want to get to the question that pertains what you were talking about. But Adam, when we talk about where did we land on this, I I, I put out that thought that, you know, if you’ve ever heard this statement, something like, I like religion but not organized religion.
Right. I believe in God, but I don’t believe in organized religion. Those kind of phrases. You’ve heard those before. Yeah. That sounds like somebody’s
[00:13:17] Adam Cloninger: been through something.
[00:13:19] Chris Gazdik: That’s my
[00:13:19] Adam Cloninger: point. Right. But I do wanna say something, you said something on that one show that I didn’t agree with categorically didn’t agree with.
Oh, wow. And I, I don’t think you meant it the way you said it. Okay. You used absolute, you know, always never. Yeah. You said, and I’m not gonna quote cause I don’t paraphrased Yeah. I’m gonna paraphrase. I didn’t write it down, but you said that probably the majority of people. Who weren’t religious have gone through some type of religious trauma.
I’m gonna say that’s not true.
[00:13:52] Chris Gazdik: Yeah, I’m not, I’m gonna say that’s not true as well.
[00:13:54] Adam Cloninger: I think you probably meant. A lot of times that’s
[00:13:58] Chris Gazdik: case. Well, it was with this topic. It’s, it’s this statement. I, I think what I recall saying is, is really about this statement. And, and it’s something that dawned on me when I was doing that show prep, right?
Which is that statement where, where people will say, I believe in God, I, I’ve got a relationship with God, but I do not believe, I will not go, I have nothing that I want to have as an interest with with organized religion, with some congregation, with a church of some sort. And I would submit to you, that’s probably what I said, Adam, all those folks probably have some sort of experience that has really harmed them in some way, if not to the level of traumatic, you know, at least to the level of very dis uncomfortable.
[00:14:40] Adam Cloninger: Well, there’s also other cases too. I’ll give you an example. Like my dad, he, he used to be a Sunday school teacher and then one time he was like, you know, you don’t have to go to church to, to worship. Sure. So, and that’s. I don’t think he had any kind of religious trauma in that. I think it was just at some point in time, he just realized, you know what?
This is just not what’s necessary. It’s not. It’s not what he felt was necessary for, for his beliefs and he just didn’t go
[00:15:05] Neil Robinson: anymore. Mm-hmm. . Well, and I think after the show was over, I think I talked about something like the, the issue is, is people associate the organized religion, the denominations in the churches with what it really means to have a relationship with that higher power.
And I think that’s, that’s the harm that this does. The fact like you don’t need a church, you don’t need an organized religion to build a relationship with that higher power, cuz it is about your relationship with that, whatever. Believe in, and that was brought up. But I feel like this really just hurts a lot of people from even having that as an option.
And that’s, we get a lot of people that just, the depression kicks in because they lose hope. And you know, hope is so important to people. And so I just think that’s, that there needs to be a disconnect between organized religion and really the need for it to actually have that relationship with your, with that higher power.
And so that’s something that was brought up after the fact. Like it just sucks that it happens cuz it is a organized religion is a gateway for a lot of people to get to know something. It’s stopping people from even getting even started.
[00:16:05] Chris Gazdik: Well, it’s even a little bit more than that. You know, when you, how many of the things that you hear us talking about, how do you recover from depression?
How do you manage anxiety? How do you deal with, you know, alcoholism in your life? How do you deal with fill in the plank? Really? And a lot of the suggestion, it’s on the list here for how do you recover from religious trauma. And that is, don’t do this alone. So one of the things that happens, Adam, is yeah, certainly you do not need, you know, organized religion experience in a church congregation per se, to have a relationship with, you know, your creator, whatever religion it might be.
But one of the things we know about human beings is we do best when we’re together. You know, we do best when we’re in a group. We learn better. We, we I mean, if you, if the three of us had a, a workout group that we did a workout routine after this week, you know, every or this, this show every month, how many times do you think we would miss that?
If, if, if I did that alone? How many times do you think then that I would miss that? That’s a positive influence when you’re in groups. So the thing that pumps me out is, is yeah, you don’t need some priest or some pastor, some lady, some rabbi to develop a relationship with your, your creator. You, you know, I, I know there’s some different beliefs, Catholic particularly, but you have a direct relationship there.
But it’s what happens. With the group when you’re growing and living and do and learning, that gets lost and then you’re just off in your own learning on your own, which is good. But when you, when done together and when somebody has some sort of distrust or some sort of crap that happened, you know, resentment from years ago or whatever in your church, you then lose the power of what can happen in.
Does that make
[00:17:57] Neil Robinson: sense? Well, I mean, like you said, a per religious and mental health, what is the one thing they say in a lot of the episodes we talk about, don’t do this alone. Exactly. And that is right. And like I said, when you look at Christianity, it’s about a relationship and like yeah, if you lose that iron, sharpen this iron.
So if, if you’re not with all people, iron sharpens iron. Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, it’s the reality, you know? So, So, yes, you’re correct, the church or whatever it is, having those other people of like mind so you can talk about it in agreeance and also disagree and figure out what’s right and what’s wrong is very powerful for yourself as a person.
So, yeah, I agree with you all heartedly.
[00:18:37] Chris Gazdik: It’s funny, I think a lot of people are gonna be hearing this about this show in religious trauma and being a part of a group, and they’re gonna be just like, I don’t wanna be around people. I don’t like pe. I mean, I hear those things in my therapy office all the time.
Listen, another example that comes to my mind is you and ane I think we’re, we’re aware of mastermind groups and we love mastermind groups, right? Yeah. I mean, they’re powerful. Tool because a business leader gets into a group with other business leaders. I am a business leader, and I can tell you being a part of a mastermind group has made me so much better of a business leader and even a thought content leader that I am with through a therapist size, because I have other people that I’m engaging this with and learning with and from.
It just, it exponentially increases your exposure. And when you’re talking about learning about your religion and learning about your creed and whatever that it is, man, so much more happens together than it, than it can individually. Adam, I’m curious to what your thoughts are about that. Does that sound crazy?
Or, you know, particularly with your dad? I mean, if you’re, I mean, if,
[00:19:40] Adam Cloninger: if that’s what somebody believed, I mean, I can understand that could be a beneficial, but you also gotta remember other people who don’t believe that. So don’t wanna
[00:19:48] Chris Gazdik: leave them out either. What do you mean don’t believe?
[00:19:52] Adam Cloninger: I mean, there’s, there’s some people that don’t have a religion and they don’t Oh, absolutely.
That stuff. And so,
[00:19:57] Chris Gazdik: yeah. And then they’re unaffected and, and people that are agnostic or, you know, don’t atheist or, you know, just don’t participate. Yeah, that’s fine. You certainly won’t have any religious trauma that way. That’s true. How are you gonna have religious drama in that circumstance? True. He’s just tune this show out and move right along.
[00:20:15] Neil Robinson: But, but I think it goes back to what you said, like even the mastermind that takes the religion out. But I think people still having a group of like-minded people, whether it’s around of religious or, you know, I did go work stuff. You got the weird Spartan race people. You got, there’s groups of people that just you like, like-minded, hobbyist, you know, stuff like that, that it makes a difference in your relationship if you actually go out and you find people like-minded that you can talk to, that you can, you know, Relatable conversations.
Yeah. You can learn from them. So while it doesn’t have to be religious, I think it is important, you know, you might be part of like a lawnmower remodeling club, , you know, something like that. My lawnmower looks awesome. Thank you. I know, right? You know
[00:20:53] Chris Gazdik: that lawnmower is killer. No doubt about it. And if you don’t know what we’re talking about, you’re gonna have to tune into sh past shows.
We’re not gonna spend time on it.
But,
[00:21:02] Neil Robinson: but that, but that’s the important part. It’s about those relationships, like you said, not being alone, whether it’s through religion. I mean, there’s people who, like we talk about politics, some people volunteer a lot of the Democratic or republican com, you know, type of things where they’re with other people that have like-minded thought processes.
And I think that’s the important part to take away that you, you really need that,
[00:21:20] Chris Gazdik: right? You grow with it. You learn with it. I, I love your Spartans example. You know, and again, Adam, we’re not talking about people that. Believe or have beliefs or, I’m really talking, honestly, a lot to the folks that say that kind of statement.
You know, like, I believe in religion, but I don’t believe in organized religion. Something’s happened and I, I
agree.
[00:21:40] Adam Cloninger: I, I can see that would be, if they’re saying that type of stuff, they’re talking about something that’s happened that something made them think differently. Something like, well, let’s just say they worked with somebody and they were religious, but they were selling illegal video tapes or some, something along those
[00:21:58] Chris Gazdik: lines, , that would maybe do something like that.
Oh, smack . That sounded a little revealing, but no, I, it is, and, and, and even, even though if nothing bad happened, also people will go into hypocrasy. You know, and again, block out something that was really helpful potentially in life because, ah, they’re all hypocrites anyway. They’re not gonna, they’re not gonna do anything valid in, in an organized religion environment.
You know, they say one thing and they go another, you know, so, but if you think about it, how comfortable is it to really walk around your days and really feel the level of high distrust in your fellow man? I mean, we, we get so jaded and so negative and then short circuit ourselves out from even having like friendships.
Honestly, people will limit their contact in a friendship manner and just kind of hang with her partner, and that’s about. You know, as much as you’re able to develop the skills to get out to people, to get engaged with people, to have relationship with people, and particularly in a group setting, that better off your mental health is gonna be, I will maintain that.
So let’s wrap up this review of show number one. But how did we do Neil particularly, you know, in understanding how do we recover from the crap that we engage in an organized religion setting? Do you, do you feel like you, your minds are remembering, can review? Yeah.
[00:23:26] Neil Robinson: Yeah. I thought we did a really good job kind of recapping like how, how to deal with it, where to go for the help.
Like I said, it’s one of those things that’s in the notes. And like I said, the common common theme is don’t go alone. Which is kind of interesting. Like we’re talking about not going into organized religion. Religion, but how do you deal with it within your, without your being? Without you being alone?
Yeah. So, but I think we covered it really well, helping people, like, if you struggle with this, you know, here’s ways you can deal with it. You know, talk about it, get it out. Talk to other people who are dealing with the same thing that you’re dealing with. I think those are some key things to kinda help you get over this because you know, I can’t, like you said, any other trauma.
Yeah, just like any other trauma. Yeah. It’s just specific to this one thing. Yeah. And I’ll tell
[00:24:05] Chris Gazdik: you, I think that there’s a little bit of a hopped up thing with typical experiences with traumatic realities in our life related to the shame-based feelings. Now, shame-based feelings are weird to think about.
Curious Adam, how you would define shame-based feelings if I catch you on that. Cause I’m wondering if you’re non-clinical brain, if that makes any sense. Like what are shame-based feelings? Mm. Yeah,
[00:24:31] Adam Cloninger: I, I, my mind goes one one way, but I don’t think I should talk about it and I don’t even wanna talk about that.
Okay. Cause I’m probably way off and you’d be
[00:24:40] Chris Gazdik: like, oh man. Well that’s okay if you’re way off. Unless you don’t want to answer that, that’s fine. No, I probably shouldn’t. . Yeah, I probably stay away from that. Neil, what do you thinking? Shame based feelings?
[00:24:49] Neil Robinson: Well, I think you go two ways. Is either one the shame of something happening to you and not knowing how to handle that one?
Yeah, I think that’s probably where you’re going with this one. Like if you’re the one that had the thing that happened to you with the religious trauma and then how do you circle back to that to want to go back into that congregation or, or deal with those things or it was my fault that this happened.
There it is. That I’m like, I’m trying to like, there it is. So, cuz when you deal with religious trauma, there’s a lot of situation with. Catholic church and the priest and all those things. And then there’s a lot just in, I think John talked about, like I said, in his congregation, there was a situation they had with one of the members, a sexual event.
Right? And so, but yet, how do you recover from that? Because you’re supposed to go to this place of safety. This happened to you. Yeah, it’s, it’s my fault that this happened to me because I did something wrong versus realizing it was still the other person. Then how do you get back into the congregation
[00:25:39] Chris Gazdik: to really feel, if I go to church, I am going to be judged?
That’s, I think the primary. You talking about this
[00:25:48] Adam Cloninger: on the other show, did you talk about, what’s that? I don’t remember you talking about this on the other show.
[00:25:51] Chris Gazdik: Sometimes we get extra content that pops up in my head. We may not have made a big deal out of it, but we did talk about shame and guilt in recovering from this and, and I think that’s a big part of it because people look, they’re afraid of being judged.
They don’t want to be shunned or looked down on. And when you have some sort of yucky experiences with people, this shame, wait a minute, I do remember
[00:26:13] Adam Cloninger: cuz you. You went over this, but as during political, cuz you’re talking about probably so like the sandals that they wore and the robe they wore and stuff.
Yeah. Right. That, I think that’s where you went along those
[00:26:23] Neil Robinson: lines about being judged. And I think the other thing that John Point when talk about shame is when you’re in a congregation, something bad happens. The other people in the congregation might feel shame for not, not catching that this bad stuff was happening too.
That was the other thing that John talked about. Like, it’s hard for a congregation. Like I should have saw that coming. Yeah, you should. I knew that guy and I, I excused it or I knew that person. I thought he acted weird and I didn’t say anything. Yeah, exactly. So you had that shame of, of the congregation also letting it happen, not realizing how far it was because you’re, you have rose when it comes to church.
You have very rose colored glasses. I think you, you look at every other people in that church as like, oh, they’re, they’re here and they’re perfect. Well, for that
[00:26:59] Adam Cloninger: matter you could have a example where you have somebody, well I knew this one time. I didn’t say anything. I didn’t know that it was happened
[00:27:06] Neil Robinson: 50 times, three times.
Right. So there’s that, that shame too, of letting it happen, I think. And that’s both, both being the person that it happens to and the people that know that it happened.
[00:27:14] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Getting better at the tracking live a little bit. So Jill’s with us. Hey Jill, what’s up? And David as well. But, but Julie points out hypocrisy is a huge factor why people don’t choose organized religion.
Exactly. You know, it, it, it, it’s, it’s a big scary reality that people are gonna look down on me, shun me, judge me, and, and it’s a mess. And, and it’s, it’s unfortunate because such good things can happen when people are talking in a group setting to, to really be. Just supported. Just supported and, and cared for and loved.
I,
[00:27:47] Neil Robinson: I think it’s very ironic when people don’t go, cuz they say they’re all hypocrite, but yet they’re judging them just as much as they would be judged themselves. Oh, it’s terrible. It’s, it’s ridiculous. It’s kind of funny, the whole, that whole circle,
[00:27:57] Chris Gazdik: which is not a religious experience,
[00:27:59] Adam Cloninger: unfortunately, but a non-religious person’s not worried about throwing a stone either.
No.
[00:28:04] Neil Robinson: No, they’ll judge you for other stuff. Oh, .
[00:28:07] Chris Gazdik: But I always love pointing out. And then we’re moving on to the second show. Judgments good people. Y’all way negative as being judged or judging if I give you a compliment because you have really cool shirt. Adam. I like a shirt. I
[00:28:20] Neil Robinson: was gonna say that too. I really like that.
That is a cool,
[00:28:22] Adam Cloninger: cool shirt.
[00:28:22] Chris Gazdik: Usually I use an example that doesn’t really fit, but this would really
[00:28:26] Adam Cloninger: fits. Thank you. I have like two shirts that Julie didn’t
[00:28:29] Chris Gazdik: buy that look cool. I am using good judgment. I am judging you when I give you the compliment about your cool shirt. Thank you. Right? People are so afraid of that need not to be like judgment is not a bad thing y’all.
I think
[00:28:40] Neil Robinson: being judgmental is the problem. Being judgment. We talked about that. That goes too far and that’s what we worry about. But yeah,
[00:28:45] Chris Gazdik: so the show number two that we went on to is show 2 0 5, how to accept yourself. And we really covered the three questions of do you really like yourself? Why and why not?
Makes it hard to overcome the critical self. And do you know how to achieve self-acceptance? I mean, man, I feel like those are three really, really good questions to ponder as we went through that show so much. So I wanna repeat ’em, right? Do you really like yourself? Why or why not people? Or you say, oh, of course we know that human beings have insecurities.
We know that people feel inadequate in some ways. We know that people are battling doubts and fears. So yeah, you’re gonna like yourself, but how much do you like yourself? Because if you really, really like yourself, you’re gonna be what’s called self-actualized, which I don’t think any human being can really be there, right?
So this is a tough question to really ask yourself, how much do you like yourself? Second, you know, what makes it so hard to overcome the critical self? And do you. How to achieve this idea of, of self-acceptance. And this is the one I tilted on. Yeah. This is, I feel like one of the most important ones because it’s so broadly encompassed in, in mental health.
So what are you guys thinking about that topic? That was your favorite one. Mm-hmm. . Why did you like it the best? Cause I hate
[00:30:06] Adam Cloninger: trying, I hate talking about religion or politics. ,
[00:30:10] Neil Robinson: I hate talking about, so it, it was basically a process of elimination. Well,
[00:30:14] Adam Cloninger: that too. I mean, another thing is, I mean, I can understand how that you need to be able to do that.
You need to be able to, I’ma say accept your best self. I mean, you, you don’t, you don’t want to just say, well this is the best I can do. I should just accept it. I don’t, I don’t think you need to, need to accept your best self. You need to accept there’s certain things that’s the way you are. And strive for your best self and strive for your best self.
I, so I think that’s a good point to make. .
[00:30:40] Neil Robinson: Yeah, I think, I think people almost get to that point where instead of, I think it goes like, I’m, you should strive to be better every day. Like kind of that idea of that goal. But you also have to be okay that you are who you are, right? And so there’s that balance.
And I feel like some people just kind of accept like, oh, this is who I am. And they don’t try to do anything different. I feel like that’s a common theme. And so this is kind of cool because it’s about how do you accept yourself and then it goes back to, okay, if you accept the way you are, but yet, how can you still be better than you are?
Just, just like, even if you look at sports teams, a team could win the Superbowl, but yet next year they still have to strive to be better and keep going. And so, and fans would not accept that, oh, we won it last year. We’re good to go. You know? Don’t need to improve. Yeah, you don’t need to improve. We’re good.
And so that’s just, so I think this was, I, this was a good. I just enjoyed the topic of the political trauma, so I do agree that plus I gotta be different. Some, you
[00:31:33] Chris Gazdik: know, a little bit. A little bit. Yeah. I mean, he’s at
[00:31:36] Adam Cloninger: work talking about politics. I can
[00:31:38] Chris Gazdik: see him now. You know what’s funny, Adam? Well, we’re, we’ll skip around too much.
I don’t wanna be schizophrenic, we’ll get to the political one, but to, to me, I looked back at the show and I feel like we had a big gap that we didn’t get to cover and so I made a note to myself to do it now. So when you think about accepting yourself and you know, we talked a lot about the barriers and I mean, the critical self is so damning to, to the way that we think and the way that we feel.
But a lot of folks out there have a real reality of an issue with a mental health condition. and so we didn’t get to talk about that because we, we just went off in a different direction and that’s okay. But Adam d i I, I think you’ve probably heard me talk about it before, but I’m curious what you think I mean by a mental health condition.
Gauge me with what the public might hear when I say that.
[00:32:34] Adam Cloninger: Well, I think some people might go ahead and think you’re talking about a diagnosed condition.
[00:32:41] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. It’s coming through clear enough then. Yeah.
[00:32:45] Adam Cloninger: But the same time, I think there’s a fine line that you’ve mentioned before or kind of skate around before there’s, you can, you can give a clinical diagnosis to something, but at the same time, kinda like you say, we figured this thing out together.
That doesn’t mean that you’re not gonna have a different. A different kind of therapy session with somebody that has the exact, you can have two different patients, the exact same diagnosis, totally different view on how they need to be treated.
[00:33:16] Chris Gazdik: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. There’s social and emotional things.
Each person is
[00:33:19] Adam Cloninger: unique. I, I, I think some people think, well, this person has this thing wrong with him. They have to, you have to do this, and that might not be, yeah, like you, these five things might be good, but these two things are definitely. What you need
[00:33:32] Chris Gazdik: to do for that. You’ve got tonsillitis, so we give this pill for you specifically for tonsillitis.
Yeah, yeah. No, and, and, and thank you cuz that that isn’t what we’re doing. But when you have O c D, you have O C D or when you have a d d Attention deficit disorder. Or obsessive compulsive disorder. Sorry. Try to get away from the alphabet soup that we put out there. Thank you. Right. Or or if you have a, a level of, of alcohol abuse, there’s specific things that we’re looking at that’s, that’s a biological reality.
And my main point that I really wanna drive home is, is that that changes the way that you experience yourself. I just talked to a girl this morning in a session and she, she thought she was depressed and we, we deduced pretty quickly that it doesn’t have anything to do with depression at all. She has what’s called generalized anxiety disorder.
I’m pretty convinced I’ve only met her once, but I do know her from her family, and so I can, I can be pretty confident in that, in that layout. And she doesn’t understand why she can’t stop thinking so much so that her irritability gets so high that she, you know, she’s mean to the people around her. And, and I see this with people, right?
And then you feel like a bad person because you’re literally so irritated. You’re, you’re itching inside your skin. And here’s the big thing, like there’s no shame in that. Like that’s not a fault reality. But it will, you’ll throw this all back on yourself and wondering, why do I behave the way that I’m behaving?
And a, and a mental health diagnosable condition, as you point out, is like the reason, for the most part, there’s other factors, but it’s a reason why people are doing that. So don’t beat yourself up. I mean, I’m passionate about mental health, obviously, and I, and it breaks my heart that people just get tore up from self-criticism, and it’s just because their body’s geared in such a way.
[00:35:36] Neil Robinson: So, so chicken or the egg, which comes first not accepting yourself or the. Medical condition. Oh. Or does it kind, does one lead to the other? Does the other lead to the one? Like, it just cause I was kind of thinking about that, like, you know, if I go through and I had kind of a little bit rough, rough upbringing and my, my parents were over critical and I really had this negative self doubt, you know, is that one of the, those things that like would lead to depression?
Or does, would me having a me a condition I’d say possibly lead to depression that then dictates how easy I can recover from that critical criticism. So that’s the question I have for you as a therapist. You know, like where do you see the, like I said, the interchange, the chicken
[00:36:18] Chris Gazdik: versus DA interchange, which goes from, I call this a tale of two tapes I mentioned on a show before.
On the one side you got the genetic, biological real. This is a genetic condition from birth, but you also have nutrition and exercise. The body drives how we feel. But on the other side is the social and emotional realities, the primary life experiences, the primary life relationships, and the daily stress and the grind.
So there is that combined approach. I mean, it all combines together and then you’re dealing with both. But you know, if you have the biological reality, which a lot of people just don’t, they, their bodies do not have a diagnosable O C D, bipolar, schizophrenia, anxiety of several sorts, issue that, that they’re geared with biologically.
Now, we all have a lot of something learning disabilities or challenges. We all have life experiences. We all have troubled relationships. We all have tough daily grinds in a lot of ways, even in the states with first world problems, right? So we have plenty on both sides to kind of deal with. And our bodies also changed throughout our life, by the way, outside of a diagnosable condition.
So your challenge is trying to answer the percentage of influence, basically, Neil, right? Yeah. I mean, which is more percent, I don’t know how we object, viably measure that, which is why we look at both and deal with both in a therapy realm and, and, and parse it out so that if you have something going on, we could put a name on it.
Listen, young therapists out there, listen, I’ve said this multiple times, I’ll say it again. I hope you hear like it is okay to put a diagnosis out there. I feel like that’s what people are looking at us to do. And then to explain what that condition is, how certain parts of it affect you, and how certain parts of it may not.
But that determines in a big way how you accept your. So I don’t think we got to talk about that much on the episode at all.
[00:38:17] Neil Robinson: Well, as, as a therapist, one of the questions I have grown about the diagnosis, how, I mean, is it one that in your practice it’s okay to change diagnosis where you start where a patient starts with one thing?
Oh yeah. Based on what you know Absolutely. At the time. And then change it because cuz that’s the thing, I feel like some people will hit that diagnosis and that becomes so ingrained in them that like they’re afraid to change it. But yet, and the reality is, as you dig deep, cuz I’ve heard you guys talk about like as you, as you dig in with your patients, you’re thinking this cuz of what you’ve been told.
And then eventually as you dive into it, you start realizing, oh, pull more information. There is something else to it. But so yeah, I think that’s important to know too that sometimes, you know, and maybe some younger therapists might be afraid to label because it means that they may mis change LA Yeah, exactly.
But if you mislabel, then as you learn, you, I feel like you can relabel based on what you know at the time. And there’s
[00:39:08] Chris Gazdik: some things that, in what’s called differential diagnosis, so there’s some things where you’ll start out with a a lesser sort of diagnosis and then amp it up to understand kind of what’s going on.
Like there’s actually something called adjustment disorder with anxiety. That’s like a thing. And all it means is you’re having trouble adjusting and there’s anxious realities around that. But then when you get to know somebody, you might bump that up because it’s a bonafide experience with anxiety.
That’s a condition. So there’s differential diagnosis, and then there’s also just straight up new information. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been in a therapy relationship with somebody maybe for a year, and I never even know the trauma that they experienced the entire time that I. With them. And then they let me know kind of what happened, and I’m like, oh, suddenly pieces start making sense.
Now I understand why you’re disassociating all the time. It’s a clinical term, but you’re, you’re checking out of your immediate realm of your experience. And that disassociation makes a whole lot more sense to me. It’s not related to anxiety, it’s related to trauma. So, so yes, there’s definitely young therapists understand it’s gonna happen all the time.
We have so much pressure to boom, snap out. A medical necessity thing for insurance companies is it’s stupid. More and more you get older, right? More and more. I hate it, but, you know avoiding the critical self. Let me see, where did we land? We landed on the idea that this is absolutely very, very common in therapy goals.
Like I listed out at ’em, it was awesome. A lot of the different therapy goals that came real and right off of my intake sheet. And I thought about ’em. I’m like, man, these all apply to this idea of accepting yourself. I mean, it was amazing that way. And then I really, we landed on the barriers that are so important to defeat.
You know, where we had a whole list of barriers, but let’s just jump on for a moment. You know, what occurred to me is I was really thinking about this topic of accepting yourself, having a critical person, an intensely critical person in your life to just crushes the soul. It crushes the spirit that, that, that somebody has.
So that, that to me, just, I could almost take the whole list of things that we had and, and, and, and compare the effects that people have from all the others, and then compare it to somehow objectify it to, to that issue. And I think that would trump all the other ones. . I think
[00:41:34] Adam Cloninger: some people actually think that someone’s always being critical of ’em too.
There’s, I’ve met people like that before where there’s, no matter what you say, they think that you’re saying something negative, you’re like, no, I didn’t mean that
[00:41:47] Neil Robinson: at all. Do you think maybe they had someone super critical in their life early on? Mm-hmm. , and I know that’s also personality. Cause I, I know some people that are very defensive by nature and I don’t like knowing them and how they were raised.
Like, I don’t really see why you would be like that, but yet there is a, a nature verse that they have. But it makes you wonder for those people, did they have someone super critical? So everything they did, I don’t know. I’ve
[00:42:10] Adam Cloninger: met some people, like, you know, I hear something said to ’em and then I see how they react and I’m like,
[00:42:17] Neil Robinson: yeah, how, how’d you get that?
What?
[00:42:18] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Where did you get that from? What I said, that’s,
[00:42:22] Adam Cloninger: that’s not what he said
[00:42:23] Neil Robinson: or, or meant or anything.
[00:42:25] Adam Cloninger: is not even in the zip. I didn’t take
[00:42:26] Neil Robinson: it that way at all. , but, but I agree with you. I think the human spirit I think is very resilient and, but when you have someone that’s very critical repeatedly and repeatedly and you’re slowly, it’s kinda like that water over the stone that just gets worn down over
[00:42:40] Chris Gazdik: time, it’s almost impossible to accept yourself.
Yeah. Because you have a fundamental doubt and question of everything that is criticized about you and I. Yeah, I mean, you. I I, short of personality disorders, which is a whole nother clinical issue, I think Adam, I would maintain any time that you’ve had that sort of vibe with somebody that really is an indicator that they have been repeatedly harmed in, in a, in a way throughout their life from a primary person.
And I’m not just talking about, you know, daddy issues or mommy issues. I mean, those, those things are certainly potential. But when you have a, a, a, a very profoundly important person in your life, even like an uncle or another family member, or people have had friends in their lives, long term relationships that are, it’s an overused word, but that are toxic when you have somebody that regularly and routinely in your.
Is obviously to other people critical of you, they can observe it. That’s a huge, huge danger and, and takes a major hit out of that resiliency, Neil, that that you mentioned. And it breaks my heart cuz it just, it, I see this in therapy with people where it just, they cannot get out from self-critique and then perceiving judgment and critique coming from others.
Like you said, Adam, I mean it’s terrible to watch. I
[00:44:07] Adam Cloninger: think sometimes I just have other stuff going on or just kind of set off. Mm-hmm. , you know, we talked about one time about road rage, you know, , somebody you know yells at you one time. It’s one day, it’s okay, but another day somebody’s already made you mad at work or whatever.
And then somebody does the exact saying thing, you’re like, screw you man. You know, you just go crazy. So those triggers,
[00:44:32] Chris Gazdik: yeah, definitely. You get triggered. Definitely get triggered. I, I, I want to spend a little bit of time on the solution list that, that we, that we went with, cuz I think it’s super important.
Self-care, prioritizing self. I like my, oh, that’s right. I’m seeing the show notes of what we did. It was like a one and a because they were so much the same importance, self-care, fun, relaxing, enjoyable activities that are not self-destructive in any way. Kind like hobbies, that is a cornerstone of mental health.
That’s what I call that. But equally as important, I think that the, a practice of, of building on one of you two said, even during our conversation, celebrate the things that you do well. Right? So you choose a standard activity that I will prescribe to people that everybody listening and watching this can, can do right now, starting today.
And it’s, it’s a totally important way to build up. Your view of yourself. You choose only one thing that you don’t like about yourself. Only one I know. I’ll do a list of things you don’t like about yourself, and people are like rattling it off. And then I’ll ask, what do you like about yourself? And it’s like, do, do
[00:45:43] Adam Cloninger: that’s, that’s it.
[00:45:44] Chris Gazdik: That’s it. . You know? So you choose only one thing that you don’t like about yourself and one thing that you like about yourself, and you celebrate that one thing you feel good about it. Let somebody know it’s okay to celebrate with people. And then you work towards changing that one thing that you don’t like.
And that may be a day’s worth process for something. Simple. Weeks might be months or even years, but you spend some time on making that a positive. Then you celebrate both of. And you add only one more. And as you replicate this over a several month period of time, you end up having five or six things.
You really feel good about what I’m doing and it picks up momentum and it’s so much easier to focus on only the one thing that you don’t like, cuz you’re celebrating five. And that and, and how do you think you feel when you go to 20 to one? If you, if you really go through a few years of this, it’s an awesome way.
It’s an awesome practice. I’ve done it in therapy with people to, to build yourself up. Then we also talked about learning the cognitive reframe. It’s a part of the vital part of C B T Cognitive behavioral therapy using cbt, cognitive behavioral therapy. I said it, man. Okay, I said it, didn’t I say it?
Neil .
[00:47:00] Neil Robinson: Well, to go back to the recording, .
Yeah.
[00:47:02] Adam Cloninger: You
[00:47:02] Chris Gazdik: said it get the red flag commercial moment. Yeah,
[00:47:05] Neil Robinson: like he said it
[00:47:07] Adam Cloninger: and then he corrected himself. But okay. Pausing that
[00:47:09] Chris Gazdik: might be true. , using friendship is huge in this category. Being able to to to get good feedback about something you’re feeling doubtful about or insecure about in a simple sort of way.
Before we turn the mics on, what did I ask you? Did I fix my hair? What did you say? You remember? I think it
[00:47:30] Adam Cloninger: does say no. I think it’s probably He did. No, you did. He did. He
[00:47:33] Chris Gazdik: said I looked
[00:47:34] Neil Robinson: terrible. I I I think the key to that is you need honest friends. Exactly. And, and that I think some people have a Yeah.
in your honest, I think that’s the bounce I think a lot of people have is some people mistake honesty for being critical because they might not like what they hear. Doesn’t mean your, when your friend is honest with you and they, and they mean the best for you, that’s great, but if they’re constantly finding everything wrong and they just keep giving, that’s when you get to that critical toxic.
But I think here’s fine. Yeah. Look good Chris. Appreciate it. You put that on your list of good things about, but I think that’s something to think about because friendships are good. Just make sure they don’t get to toxic. Cuz you want, you don’t want a bunch of yes men saying yes. Yes, yes. Cause that’s almost more detrimental than an honest trend in
[00:48:15] Chris Gazdik: an involved relationship.
You develop trust and you develop the honest ability to be like giving real objective feedback when you need it. But I’ll tell you, Guys struggle. Men out there, like particularly young men, we just love coming up with the quickest j j Poke, you know, who can have the best cut down, who can come, the best wittiest thing, right?
And I would tell you, honestly, I think that can crush some people. I had to learn how to deal with that. That didn’t come natural. I mean, I don’t care. I know my hair looks good at ’em. There’s not a whole lot that you’re gonna be able to do to hurt my feelings or whatever, but particularly younger adults, you all remember those years?
That could be tough. For young, for young kids, for young folks. But
[00:49:01] Neil Robinson: my youngest, I was told by my mother that my youngest got a little bit too, a little bit too extrem in some of his sarcasm, which I, I can’t blame him. He gets it honestly, for me. But he hasn’t understood the social dynamic of I’ve gone too far
Right. And so that’s the thing he has to work on. But yeah, I mean that’s, that’s true. That’s how. Their friendships and they get real, you know, they, they like, oh yeah, you put a little bit extra weight on. Or, you know, someone sits in a chair and breaks and they start joking, oh, you put too much. You know, it’s just the way guys are
[00:49:32] Chris Gazdik: more than one person.
Over Thanksgiving tapped my belly. Oh, . That’s the first thing my brother-in-law did. Hey, Eric out there, by the way, it didn’t bother me. I’m okay. But the point really there is, is friends can all very much help build you up. It’s a huge component of, of accepting yourself. Mention the feel good file tracking, keeping note of things that you do well or things you do well.
Success story, success moments check the anxiety experiences that you have clinically out with people, and then putting, validating people in your life and, and being able to, to banish or at least discredit or minimize those ones that are toxic or, or negative. So I thought those were, were some pretty good.
Pieces to that show in the last show, episode 2 0 6. You here it is, man, politics and Mental health, political Trauma. Is that a thing
[00:50:29] Adam Cloninger: the moment you’ve been waiting for?
[00:50:31] Neil Robinson: Best show
[00:50:32] Chris Gazdik: of the month. , but political trauma, man, I don’t even know if they’re done down in Georgia or not as poor people. We, we recorded the show probably right after our election cycle knowing that they had a month to go out.
[00:50:48] Adam Cloninger: Georgia, isn’t it like December 5th or something? They’re going,
[00:50:50] Chris Gazdik: is that when it is? So it’s, so we still got a whole nother week for those poor people, like third or fifth or
[00:50:55] Adam Cloninger: something like that, where they’re gonna do the,
[00:50:56] Chris Gazdik: when is the
[00:50:57] Neil Robinson: sounds? I don’t, I have to look up the Georgia runoff. Think It’s Or something.
[00:51:01] Adam Cloninger: Or
[00:51:01] Chris Gazdik: something. Yeah. The Georgia runoff is still
[00:51:05] Adam Cloninger: not even done. You saying the people in Georgia right now are probably going through Oh, they political trauma right now. Cause it’s not over.
[00:51:11] Chris Gazdik: It’s miserable. Miserable for them. Cause they keep on getting it and keep on getting it and keep on getting it. All of these political commercials and, and all of this December,
[00:51:22] Adam Cloninger: that’s what I’m saying.
[00:51:23] Neil Robinson: December
[00:51:23] Chris Gazdik: 6th. It looks like it. December 6th is Georgia. Run that close. I didn’t say the, the date off the front end of the show. This is November the 28th, right? This December. When is it going through November the 28th. You get, you get a whole nother week to go Georgians. I’m sorry, but you, by the time this comes out, you’ve gotten through it.
I like talking about politics. Can I say that out loud? Sure.
[00:51:45] Neil Robinson: Just don’t, just don’t express what they are. You can talk, say you like to talk about it. Just don’t say what your political opinion is.
[00:51:52] Chris Gazdik: I have significantly diminished the amount of people that I’m willing to do this with. But Adam, I’m gonna say you’re one of them.
[00:52:00] Adam Cloninger: Right that you’re willing to speak about it or not with With you. Okay. Yeah.
[00:52:04] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Cuz we’ve had some conversations. Yeah. And I think that’s super important and valuable to be able to do. How, what’s the laugh? , he cracked us. Don’t worry. Smile jabs
[00:52:15] Neil Robinson: too. Like immediately. Well, I’m just thinking some of the conversations we’ve had, you know, cuz I’ve gotten to know you more about how you lean now and then, like knowing how Craig, like when you get Craig involved too, is a whole nother dynamic Oh boy.
As well. So I’ve, I think you and I have talked a couple times about some things with some of this stuff and I think that’s how it should be. You should be like, here’s what I think. Here’s what you think. Okay, you’re wrong. That’s fine. I’m not mad at you. But you know, that’s how, that’s how, that’s how it used to be when you were talking about politics.
It was, here’s what I believe, here’s what I believe. You guys kind of talk about it and then if, if someone says something that helps you kind of sway your opinion, you might shift what you think. But now it’s, it’s a, here’s what I believe, here’s what you believe. You guys are both evil to each other because you think I’m wrong.
Goes back to the defensive nature that you were talking about. Yeah. You know, if you don’t agree with me, then you’re basically saying, I’m an idiot and we’re gonna argue, right? Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it
[00:53:10] Chris Gazdik: sucks because just like the religion reality, this as well in much the same fashion, locks people into being alone with their own views.
Cuz you can’t talk. And I just, I mean, listen, I don’t talk about things all the time in my real life though. My wife would probably disagree with that statement, lol. But it’s okay because you know, , I’ve got a
[00:53:34] Adam Cloninger: story to tell you after to
[00:53:35] Chris Gazdik: say, Mike’s off, Adam . Mike should need to be off. I don’t know where.
He’s not bad. It’s a funny thing, thing I’ll tell you later. Anyway, but, but no, I mean, you know, when you, when you feel like you can’t talk about something, you can’t deal with something openly, then this is just a yet another way to kind of lock yourself by being alone. Here’s the questions that I asked to think about when we went through that show.
Is politics good or bad? You know I think they’re good. Frankly, they’re necessary. Also, have you thought about what politics even really are? So when we talked about that, it’s interesting the way the definitions have changed or the thoughts that people have about what politics are, are different now than they used to be.
And then how to cope with the stress around you and the conflicts and disagreements and, and that type of a thing. You know, I even think that this is going to be one of our lesser downloaded shows. I think we’ll statistically see that play out and, and I don’t understand that. It, it, I don’t even think people are gonna tune into that particular show as, as much the politics show. Yeah. Yeah. And I haven’t looked yet, but I’m, I’m, I’ll make a $5 bet with either of you or both of you, that it will probably be in the bottom.
Quarter of our downloaded shows, I think Cause people don’t wanna deal with it. They’re tired of talking about it. They don’t want to deal with it. What do you mean?
[00:55:05] Adam Cloninger: Other than him? He wants to talk about
[00:55:06] Chris Gazdik: it, but Well, you do too. .
[00:55:08] Neil Robinson: I could see it going either way cuz I think there’s a lot of people who don’t, who won’t listen to it because they’re, they’re gonna get, they might think they’re gonna get hurt by it cuz we might say something that maybe they don’t agree with and they don’t like it.
So I think there’s gonna be a lot of avoidance because of that. But I think there is gonna be a lot of avoidance cuz there are a lot of people that are kind of like, okay, I’m just tired of it because it is so extreme. You know, we talked about religion has now become politics, you know, it’s, it really has and I think that goes back to
[00:55:33] Chris Gazdik: why that was John a really interesting idea from John.
[00:55:36] Neil Robinson: And I think part of the reason why it is so dynamic or explosive nowadays is because people put their political beliefs on such a high pedestal that we used to put our religious beliefs. So when you disagree with me on my political spectrum, you’re basically disagreeing with the very, the very fiber of my being.
And I think that’s, cuz you almost get that from a lot of people where if you don’t agree, it does become such a defensive, like anger
[00:56:03] Adam Cloninger: moment and science the same way. Science has become like the new religion to, yeah. I mean you can have a belief of, well, I’ll say belief. You have thoughts of how you think things are.
There’s certain things that’s just theories.
[00:56:17] Neil Robinson: I think people just need get back to church .
[00:56:19] Chris Gazdik: Oh wow, there’s a state, there’s a value statement. But
[00:56:22] Neil Robinson: no, you’re correct. The last couple years, science is up there with politics, which used to be religion. It’s really kind of an interesting
[00:56:29] Chris Gazdik: dynamic. John had a very interesting view about that.
I was really wanting to listen to him more. I don’t know that we had time to go into it, but his view, because he’s seen it for so long and he’s seen it. From the angle of being a pastor as well as being a therapist, as well as being just a Christian, religious person himself and, and then being in the military for as long as he, he was,
[00:56:54] Neil Robinson: he has such a diverse background, like his insight is so crazy.
But I think going back to our politics bad, I think politics as a whole, the idea of the deciding for the greater good, I think is, is a good idea. But I feel like the way politics has shifted, it’s no longer about what’s good for the greater good or society in general is about winning arguments. It’s, it’s about basically just saying, I want to get what I want to get, not is this really what’s good for my county, my state, my city, my country.
It’s about just winning for the sake of winning. I feel like law has become that type of a thing and politics are right up there with it, and I think that’s where politics are good. But I think they’ve shifted to be something worse now.
[00:57:40] Chris Gazdik: So that’s the way we need necess end the show. And so I wanna circle back around that.
Yeah, Adam, it’s a necessary. But is it evil? It, is it good or bad? I think where we landed with our panel, Neil, is that we, it’s not bad. It’s not bad at all, but we have demonized it to be something that is inherently bad because we’re so combative and polarized. You know, we had a good talk, you know, back and forth.
Casey said a lot about social media and that type of a thing, the influence on our way that we get news. I mean, that can’t not be a part of that conversation. But we also landed, I think the, the panel really agreed with me. Remember Neil, we were talking about nine 11. Were you listening? Remember Adam, we were talking about nine 11.
That that is a really powerful experience that changed the way human beings operate. I think they very much agreed with me as that being a major, major issue. And then from the us Huh?
[00:58:36] Adam Cloninger: I’d say that, that for
[00:58:37] Chris Gazdik: the, in the us No, that was a worldwide event. I disagree. I know, but I mean, I
[00:58:41] Adam Cloninger: disagree. I, I’m, I’m gonna say that there’s other things happen in other countries that to them were.
As bad or worse to them in the us Yes. Nine
[00:58:51] Chris Gazdik: 11. I think that that is probably a true statement, but if you think about it when there, I mean we, we all watched the Queen’s death proceedings in a lot of ways around the country outside of the United States. There are things that happen in the states that people don’t give a rip about.
Just like we don’t give a rip about some of the things that happen in other sectors of the world. But when something’s big like that and something like that happening in the United States, I’m gonna submit to you pretty much around the world. Omg. The United States got attacked on their mainland was around the world, universal.
We all watched it. So I, and that did something to the human psyche about how we are all dialed into something that’s really important. I, I think that was big.
[00:59:42] Adam Cloninger: I agree. It was big. I’m just saying that I think we’re kind of. Bias by saying that is, you know, referring to us. So
[00:59:50] Chris Gazdik: yeah, it was definitely ego-centric.
Well, you know, Americans have ego maniacs. We , we think the world revolves around us. Apologize about that around the world. Sorry about that. It just happens. We try to be humble and we are humble people, I think in a lot of ways. But, but, but no, I, Adam, maybe we’re, we’re on a disconnect here in just a little bit.
What, what I mean is in a fundamental way around the world, even, did it change the way that we consume news that’s important to us? It, it was, it gave us the experience that we watched it live and all day and just got sucked in more and more throughout the day. I, it was all day long. It was exhausting and I don’t think that we’ve ever experienced that before, even in World War ii, you know, when the war was going on and stuff.
People didn’t have that technology. We couldn’t do that. We had news reports. Well, I can see that. Yeah. A five minute clip.
[01:00:49] Neil Robinson: Well, well, I have a question for you too, because of the age difference, how much were you in, like how much was involved with like, the Iraqi war in Kuwait with the, the first George Bush?
Cause I, I kind of remember that a little bit, but because of my age, yeah. It really didn’t matter to me as much. And I think I was like seven or eight around the time. So, so I, but when nine 11 came, I was just outta high school and it was like, that was my first, like, to me that’s a huge thing.
[01:01:17] Chris Gazdik: It was different.
It’s a good question. You know, because of the age. It, it, I, I remember exactly Adam, I don’t remember if you, I don’t know if you know exactly where you were, but it was one of those Oh, I remember where I was, moments I was at respects as a bagging grocery clerk going in and out of the store, delivering them to your car.
When I found out we went to the Gulf War. And I finished my shift. I do not recall if I checked to the news after that I was in high school and it, but it was fine. It wasn’t like, you know, let me watch the Iraqi war on tv. Now, there was that capability, but I don’t think that human beings really knew how to use that yet, or we’re accustomed to that, that it hadn’t been ingrained into that’s what we’re going to do.
Do you remember, Adam? I’m curious. Uh, No.
[01:02:05] Adam Cloninger: The reason I don’t is because for me it was the US is always putting their foot in somebody else’s business anyway. So I mean, I just thought another day in the office what
[01:02:15] Neil Robinson: I thought. Really? Yeah. And, and I think it goes back to where you guys had technology has changed dramatically.
I think nine 11 was one of the first big world. Biggest event as technology. That technology was available. So it, it did become a worldwide thing because the technology allowed it to be that way and then, right, the news cycles and then social like Facebook, MySpace, those were starting around the same time.
Right. Google has become a bigger thing. A lot of the news places started actually having their websites out there, so I mean, technology changed the dynamic of that event. You know, you talk about the Queen’s death and those types of things, it’s, it’s a lot different, and I think you’ve said it many times.
We as a human society really don’t know how to handle technology yet. No, at all. Mentally, emotionally, going back to dealing with conversations, and I know one of the things you talk about where you land was that idea of that one-on-one conversations going away because everything is buffered. John was big on that one, right?
Everything is buffered by technologies to where you have all this information that you can decipher for yourself, but you don’t really have the capability or the discipline anymore to have real conversations. That, I’m just
[01:03:21] Adam Cloninger: curious, Chris, have you ever sent a text to one of your kids and they’re.
[01:03:26] Chris Gazdik: Oh, I do that.
I do that. I do that. Hey, I’m in bed though. I gotta say I’m in bed usually
[01:03:32] Neil Robinson: when it happens. My wife just told me that the other day cuz she’s like, go yell for the kids. I grabbed my phone. She’s like, she’s like, why I wanted you to yell for them. I’m like, but when I was grown up I was like told not to yell and I didn’t want to get up and I’m just like, I’ll just text.
Cause I know they have their phone. But yeah, that literally happened to me like I think last night or two nights ago. My wife’s like, just yell at them. Same.
[01:03:51] Chris Gazdik: She knows it’s difficult to yell the walls or whatever. She said, well you tell him to turn to base down. And I knew that means text Aaron and tell him to base down because it was too late.
[01:04:00] Neil Robinson: Of course I get the point like, you just text him yourself. Why are you
[01:04:03] Chris Gazdik: like Exactly.
[01:04:05] Adam Cloninger: Cause now you’re the jerk
[01:04:06] Neil Robinson: instead of. Yeah. Hey, I’ve been called a nice jerk before.
[01:04:10] Chris Gazdik: So wrapping up, Neil, where you went to on this show that I thought, well, we gotta do that for sure. How to cope. Here it is again. Casey talked about marriage and understanding how to deal with conflicts and, and I talked about group dynamics and I, I, I think we didn’t get a chance to talk enough about group dynamics, but we were blending those ideas.
To, to broad stroke it out and give us a macro look at how do we wanna deal with these things? Cuz we need to learn how to do that or actually relearn, I think, how to deal with some of those things. Limits are crucial in today’s world. Nobody disagrees with that. Do face to face conversations, dot, dot, dot only, right?
Neil, you just mentioned that. Vote. If you’re in a country that allows for voting or participating in some way in the providence that you’re in or what, what your system is, participate in your system. It feels enabling, it feels empowering. And otherwise take other actions again, moves towards empowerment.
Join groups so as to not be alone. Practice patience and you know, where you ended there. That I wanted to end up. You know, John passionately ended our episode on political trauma, kind of talking about his vast experience in the military. And do you remember what he said? Either of you. Because it was poignant, powerful about talking
[01:05:29] Adam Cloninger: about the people that were his brothers and sisters.
[01:05:31] Chris Gazdik: Yes. And what they have grown to understand about their purpose and what they’re serving. Right. And I think that we would do well to understand that, particularly as the United States is able to help so many people around the world, we need to do more. You know, when you’re dealing with these types of decisions in whatever country you’re in, if we have in mind a service to a cause greater than ourselves, and you instill that into the conversation that you’re having with a person or a group, you’re gonna be much more adept at dealing with really difficult problems like our national debt or what we’re doing with the, the new Providence leader in your local government, or whatever it might be.
If you come at it from where John and his companions in the militaries, and I’m sure that’s the same around the world, you know, that we’re, we’re, we’re serving something greater than ourselves. You’re gonna be much more engaged and grounded in, in that conversation that, that you’re having. I think that was a pretty cool way to end.
Yeah. Yeah. And in a word. Yeah. So we’ll stop it there guys. Have a great week, Opie. Enjoyed the November month. In review, Adam will see you in a, my God, around Christmas time, you’re
[01:06:58] Neil Robinson: continuing the beard out. You gonna wear like Santa costume and we can have you like, I can wear a Santa hat. There
[01:07:03] Chris Gazdik: you go.
Hope the holidays are going well for you guys. Merry Christmas is soon to be right after this show gets published. So take care, be well, and we’ll talk to you soon.