In therapy there is a continual struggle is between what your emotions are telling you and what your brains says you should do. We have previously mentioned that your emotions are necessary for survival, but they can also lie to you. So how do you handle those situations where your emotions are dictating your logic. While it is hard to do, you can work to bring more balance between your heart and your mind in your day-to-day life.
Tune in to see if you Can Control Your Mind and Heart Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Listen for the following takeaways from the show:
- Do you believe that I feel the way I feel and there is no changing that?
- How do I focus my mind on what I choose it to be focused on?
- Will the heart follow where you mind goes or does your mind go where your heart is?
- Do we blindly follow our emotions?
- You have to understand each part – the heart and the mind.
- It is very challenging, but empowering, to deal with the iceberg under the water.
- What are some areas that this can apply to you on a day-to-day basis?
- Do you influence yourself through your thoughts or your emotions?
- Therapy is a way to integrate the body and soul into a whole being.
- The goal is to be less initially reactive and move thoughtfully responsive.
- A thought is a thought…it’s what you do with it that matters.
- If you don’t heal what hurt you, you will bleed on people that didn’t cut you.
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Episode #209 Transcription
[00:00:00] Chris Gazdik: Hi there everybody. Welcome to Through a Therapist’s Eyes. This is actually December the first. Did I get that right this time? Yes you did. I usually screw that up. It’s actually Thursday. It’s actually Thursday. Indeed. We had holiday schedules. So we popped in here on a Monday, did a surprise recording, did some different things, and so bear with us through the holidays.
We’re gonna stay with you through Christmas, although I haven’t looked at the Christmas schedule. I’m looking at the calendar and you thought of my office, which. Falls on a Sunday this year. Yeah. Christmas is on a Sunday. New Year’s and New Year’s as well. Christmas time. That’s right. Holy cow. Saturday night on New Year’s Eve.
That’s gonna be crazy Across the Great land. So this is through a therapists eyes where you get to get insights directly from a panel of therapists in personal time at home or in your car being awares, not to delivery of therapy services in any way. Know that we’ve got the book still out, re-understanding emotions and Becoming your Best Self.
That was cool, man. Neil or not Neil. Adam like, hell’s the book up to the camera? When we did that last week, , that was like,
[00:01:08] Victoria Pendergrass: oh, you have like four copies right there. Well, there
[00:01:11] Chris Gazdik: are, yeah. I always sell ’em, you know, we are switching a little bit, Neil, when we doing the YouTube thing? Is that far off?
I’ve been saying that and, and I’m not sure. Let’s try to do it first of the year. Okay. So maybe first of the year we’re gonna kick four adding to instead of replacing with Right. YouTube, he shakes his head. YouTube live. Adding to the Facebook Live that we do five Star is always important to help us out.
We really wanna grow the show 2023, and you are a part of that. So I would directly ask you to help us with an Apple Review or a five Star on Spotify or. And most importantly, writing things out on the review in the Apple platform that works best. Seriously, it helps. It makes a big difference and helps us get found.
So if you like the show, participate and help us out. Contact that through a therapist eyes to interact with us. We love getting that. This is the human emotional experience and we do endeavor to figure this out together with all of you, welcome back. We have Ms. Kasie. How are you?
[00:02:12] Kasie Morgan: Hey, I’m doing well.
Thanks for asking.
[00:02:14] Chris Gazdik: Good deal. Mr. John. We call you the Pope. Mr. John. That’s right. Nelson Pope,
[00:02:20] John-Nelson Pope: how are you? Oh, when I was in the Navy, they’d say Pope John all the time. That’s
[00:02:26] Chris Gazdik: right. That shout out. Yeah. And Miss Victoria, how are you, miss Pendergrass? I’m good.
[00:02:32] Victoria Pendergrass: Pendergrass?
[00:02:33] Chris Gazdik: Pinder. Pender and not Pinter. No tea.
No tea. It’s, did I say Pinter? Yes. Yes. It’s Pendergrass. Well, I know how to spell it. You wanna know a
[00:02:41] Victoria Pendergrass: fun fact? What’s that? My husband is
[00:02:43] Kasie Morgan: related to Teddy Pendergrass. Yes. The singer? Yes.
[00:02:46] Chris Gazdik: Who’s he? Oh, you don’t know Long just to
[00:02:51] Kasie Morgan: hold you in my arms. That
[00:02:53] Chris Gazdik: guy, that guy there is so bad if I didn’t know the song.
Yeah. Yes.
[00:02:58] John-Nelson Pope: There was another, another one too. I, I think he died though, didn’t he? He, he did. He did. He, he, he had an accident where he lost his ability to walk and I have no
[00:03:09] Victoria Pendergrass: idea. Okay. I just know he is related to my husband. There’s his fourth cousin. He’s my
[00:03:15] Chris Gazdik: husband’s fourth cousin. Oh my goodness. Oh, wow. I, I, I, I’ve begun to find that I, I’ve started to realize like, I live under a rock.
I seriously don’t even know who. Well,
[00:03:24] John-Nelson Pope: did you learn in history about Truman’s haras? Truman’s mentor was named Boss Pinder Gas.
[00:03:30] Chris Gazdik: I did not Mr. Academia over there. Yeah. So,
[00:03:34] John-Nelson Pope: wow. Interesting. That was in that was in Kansas
[00:03:36] Chris Gazdik: City. Is it? Is it Kasie? Yeah. I can’t, I can’t read you.
[00:03:40] Kasie Morgan: Yeah, . Sure. Why not? I feel like I’m on npr,
[00:03:44] Chris Gazdik: Npr. Yeah. So just, I know what that is. I
[00:03:48] Kasie Morgan: just took a direction, I think , I’m sorry, . That
[00:03:50] Victoria Pendergrass: totally derailed us with
[00:03:51] Kasie Morgan: my fun fact now. Indeed. I have fun with flags, .
[00:03:55] Chris Gazdik: Oh, wow. All right. Let’s get to the topic in that a question. Can you control your mind and can you control your heart? And I think that this is an interesting topic because I find people with desperation in their mindsets when I’m doing therapy with them.
Like I’ll hear statements and I’ll hear things that indicate that people really believe, you know what, I, I don’t know how to do that. And furthermore, because I don’t know how to do that, I don’t think I can do that. So think about, do you believe that I feel the way that I feel, and there’s no changing that.
That’s one of the phrases that I hear and that I want you to think about. Secondly, how do I focus my mind on what I choose it to be focused on? We struggle to really grab ourselves and put ourselves purposefully in a space for the purpose of whatever that purpose might be. And thirdly, will the heart follow where your mind goes, or does your mind go where your heart is?
How’s that for a provocative question? Mm-hmm. , I’m curious. I just wanna open it up to y’all to see, particularly the last one, right? Let me say it again. Will the heart follow where your mind goes, or does your mind go where your heart is? What do y’all think about that?
[00:05:14] Kasie Morgan: Mm. I think that that suggests that you’re in an alignment with both.
And if you’re in an alignment, then I would say yes to both of those questions. I think there are times, though, when you might be misaligned, meaning that there are situations, circumstances where maybe your value systems or the feelings of your heart aren’t always meshed with what you’re thinking about or where your mind has to go to preserve yourself to get through a situation, to kind of make a more rational choice than maybe what your heart wants you to make.
[00:05:50] Chris Gazdik: Alignment is a, we we need to probably come back on that and see that. I think I’m gonna do an unfair thing and roll around to both John, you and Victoria. What do you think about that? Okay.
[00:06:02] John-Nelson Pope: I was just thinking of, of a digestive calming thing called a line.
[00:06:07] Chris Gazdik: Oh, wow. Not that quite a line. Hey, we
[00:06:11] John-Nelson Pope: haven’t done
[00:06:12] Chris Gazdik: an old joke lately.
This, we do
[00:06:15] Kasie Morgan: an old joke. Does that come on during Jeopardy or Will of Fortune? We do that every week, brother .
[00:06:19] Chris Gazdik: Okay. . Well,
[00:06:20] John-Nelson Pope: let me, you know, and I, I was thinking about this, is that a lot of our I’m not adding anything new, but just perhaps a little bit of, of, of an observation and that is that that there is how, how would I say this?
Is that our popular music mm-hmm. so often and it, it talks about that struggle between the heart and the mind. Mm-hmm. and people acting and the misalignment or that’s there. And I was. I was remembering this old song, you light, you light up my life. Mm-hmm. , how can it be wrong if it feels so good?
Right. Right. Feels so right. Yeah. How can it be wrong? And so, oh, it
[00:07:04] Kasie Morgan: can be a lot wrong. Yeah. .
[00:07:06] John-Nelson Pope: Exactly. But a lot of our music reflects that.
[00:07:10] Chris Gazdik: Mm-hmm. since it’s interesting. Yeah. There’s a lot to be said in the songs that we create or that are created. And when I have a theme, I will hear songs not quite the one we started on with the Facebook Live before the mics come on.
I don’t know, you know that one. But these songs in the way that people artistically sing about them. Mm-hmm. and you’re right. Like how can it be wrong if it feels so right. Do we go really blindly with our feelings? I probably should have had that as one of our three questions because I think honestly, a lot of times we do
[00:07:43] John-Nelson Pope: Well then there’s that song and I wanna ask Kasie to sing it Feelings.
[00:07:48] Chris Gazdik: Feelings. Oh
[00:07:49] Kasie Morgan: dear. Oh, feelings. Go ahead. That that’s
[00:07:54] John-Nelson Pope: right.
[00:07:54] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Thank you, . I mean, we have two that go off onto song now, Victoria, I don’t, I don’t think you and I are, I
[00:08:01] Victoria Pendergrass: feel like we’re on the right side of the room. , you don’t want
[00:08:05] Chris Gazdik: me singing over here. Indeed. But you know what I mean. I mean, if it feels so right, how can it be so wrong and, and, and be out of alignment like you are saying, Kasie, I think those are, you know, and, and then a lot of the question about how do we get in alignment?
How do we manage this? Can we really, you know, change the way that we feel or where our mindset is. Victoria, what are you thinking and seeing there? Well, yeah,
[00:08:27] Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, I kind of agree with what, like the whole alignment thing. But I also think a lot of times people come to us and they say, okay, my mind is telling me this, but my heart is telling me that.
Hmm. And so, I mean, I guess that kind of goes with the whole finding a way to align it. But then I get kind of like, in that situation, you know, then it’s like, it’s like two different directions. Mm-hmm. . So you’re trying to figure out like, how can we get those to. Go both one way or the other way, or in the same way.
Yeah.
[00:09:00] Chris Gazdik: Ab you know, absolutely. Look it’s gonna come up. I had, and in my show notes, one of my favorite titles for our show is Trust Your Gut or Use Your Head. And, and Craig and I talked about, you know, how do you mitigate that? How do you manage that? And that’s, it’s another one of those phrases, right?
Yeah. Like, my mind tells me this and my heart tells me that, well, which one do you listen to? Right? I’m
[00:09:20] Victoria Pendergrass: a huge fan of going with your gut. Or like, listen, at least, least listening to your gut.
[00:09:26] Chris Gazdik: Well, let’s look at what that is. Right? So there, there’s, there’s literally different parts to this. Mm-hmm. . So there’s literally.
Literally . What do you mean by that? Do you want, well,
[00:09:35] John-Nelson Pope: I mean, you know, you, you’ve got this as, as mind and heart that there’s the Greek word for mind, which is no in os. Mm-hmm. . Okay. And then there’s the, or cardiac for, for heart or, and then there’s the third component. We didn’t, we’re not touching on that.
It’s psyche, so heart, mind, and soul. Oh wow. And this has been going on for thousands of years. Is this dicho, trichotomy that’s going on, but this just taking the mind in the heart. I think you can’t, and, and I would disagree with you a little bit, Victoria. There is. Okay. .
[00:10:15] Chris Gazdik: Right. Thank you.
[00:10:17] Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, I’m open.
[00:10:18] John-Nelson Pope: I’m open.
No, no, no. Disagreeing with me. I think you have to balance all three or all two of these, you know? Well, yeah. The gut and the, and the mind.
[00:10:27] Chris Gazdik: Well go, go a little further with that. Honestly, the, cuz you’re right. I mean, people I think think in simple terms, which is where I was in my mind. But you’re right, it’s not
[00:10:35] John-Nelson Pope: black and white right there.
It’s, it’s an, it’s nuanced. There’s, there’s decisions and so you have to go and make it. When you make a decision, you have to say, okay, is what does my rational mind say? What does my heart say? Where does my gut go with this? And so you have to balance the pros and the cons of that and make that decision.
I think what the problem is, is that when you’re. When you’re young, you, you more go with the impulsive the impulsive decision. As you get older, you start to be more thoughtful. Yeah. Be more thoughtful and you reflect. The problem is, is then you could go to the other extreme and is just use your rational mind.
Yeah.
[00:11:23] Kasie Morgan: I also think that, I mean, would you agree, John too, that like moral reasoning and other things like religious influence, things like that also I believe probably influence our ability to make decisions that maybe our mind and our heart feel aligned in certain ways, but maybe we also think through like there being something greater than ourselves and Right.
And then allow that to help influence our decision making as well.
[00:11:49] John-Nelson Pope: I, I would agree a hundred percent on that. Yeah.
[00:11:53] Chris Gazdik: You know, I guess it’s interesting, right? Because I, I, I think I tried to simplify in, in thinking about just the heart. and the mind, and I looked at it in a way of using where I thought you were going and you went in a different direction, which is great, but two distinctly different parts of our brain.
Uhhuh, , your limbic system. The, the Amy, we’ve talked about the different facets of, of how the emotional part of our brain, which is right above the brain. Mm-hmm. right above the brain stem. The little space right there that’s in the middle of our brain is one part for our emotions. It has nothing to do with our heart.
Our heart just pumps blood. But we’ve put that symbolically in place to speak of matters of the heart. It’s really the limbic system. And then the thought is the frontal cortex. Mm-hmm. the, the right behind your skull, the thinking part of your brain. And so those are the thoughts. So you have your thoughts and then you have your feelings, but you’re adding a whole nother component, which is you’re totally on point.
And it just complicates it so much. And, and, and I think creates an overwhelmed feeling for people, cuz you say the soul and I like to think of it as the spirit. Mm-hmm. . And ultimately what we’re talking about is the subconscious. Mm-hmm. , which is a big part of the way that we operate.
[00:13:07] John-Nelson Pope: It’s that roiling.
Roiling cadre
[00:13:10] Chris Gazdik: Yes. Comes up and, and, and, and I think this is why I, I like this topic and thought that it would be an important thing to talk about. Can you control your mind and or your heart? Because people get so overwhelmed with this mm-hmm. , and they get so overwhelmed with this in really difficult periods and times of their life that you just almost kind of feel disempowered and helpless because I feel the way that I feel and I can’t do anything about the way that I feel.
I hear that a lot in therapy and my retort is like, our whole industry is based on managing how it is that we feel. Hmm. And, and that’s an important understanding of how to go about doing that, which we definitely want to get to tonight. How do we manage, this is an important part of what we’re, well,
[00:14:04] John-Nelson Pope: Chris, how do, how do you, let’s say, would you have a client that, that says, well, it’s just my feelings.
This is how I feel and this is why I, I cheated on my wife or my partner, or something like this. Or why I, why I, you know, blew up at this person. It’s just the way I am,
[00:14:23] Chris Gazdik: right? Yeah. How do you, that’s another one of those phrases, it’s just the way I am. It’s who I am, it’s who I ams, what I am. It’s at the core, you know, why, why would I wanna change what the way I am?
Yeah. No, I, it’s interesting. I don’t go directly at confronting that, John, because I think that that is overwhelming and, and challenging for a person. Instead, we’ll explore that. Right? And, and look at like, well, what, what factors into the way that you are? What, what factors into the way that you think, what’s factoring into the ways that you feel, and are you comfortable with those decisions?
How do you, you know, rectify what your intentions are and how you develop intention out? I mean, there’s a lot of things to Yeah. Explore in and around that without, you know, because people will feel like this is a core of who I am. I’m not, you know, they’ll be very attached to that until you do that exploration of all these different facets.
[00:15:21] Kasie Morgan: Yeah. I, I often, when people say things like that in my office, I, I do take a deeper dive and we talk a lot about functions of behavior. Right? There you go. We start looking at it more from the perspective of kind of the iceberg mentality, right? Where like, you know, the first time I was ever exposed to the iceberg was the iceberg of anger, you know, where it’s like anger’s on the top and everything’s below anger and it has all these words, but.
I think that’s very applicable, as an example for lots of behaviors, right? Because every behavior has a function. So what we see is the externalized thing, like the affair is the behavior. But what we’re not addressing is kind of the dangerous parts of the iceberg, right? And so we talk about what is underneath the surface, right?
That undercurrent that’s carrying us through. And so those are the, the thoughts and feelings of inadequacy, the thoughts and feelings. You know, this, that, or a third. Fear. Fear, but, but also I think what people sometimes neglect to understand about us as human beings is that no one is value feeling thought or judgment free.
No one living that has a limbic system and a functional brain is value feeling, thought or judgment free. And so we constantly will have automatic thoughts that get attached to feelings that lead to functions of behavior. So I think when we break it down and we look at it from a perspective of this is the behavior outcome, let’s talk about like what are the undercurrents of these things, then I think you can kind of make it a more humanized experience for people to where we’re all kind of in this shared ethic together of life.
[00:17:04] Chris Gazdik: Boy, there’s a lot there. Yeah.
[00:17:06] Kasie Morgan: Sorry. There’s always a lot there. I’m a little complicated . That’s
[00:17:09] Chris Gazdik: cause
[00:17:09] John-Nelson Pope: it’s, it’s the iceberg. But to, didn’t we get that in the ivy class? We did, yeah. Yeah. With the, the iceberg. Yes. Yes.
[00:17:20] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Take a deep breath listening audience. Yeah. I think I’ll just show what it is that I’m feeling as I’m listening to you.
I mean, it is, it, I think I just wanna reinforce again, like this is why people get so, Overwhelmed with this and get captivated with stuck spots and hurt spots and impulsive behavior because the iceberg is so much to deal with, isn’t it? For those of you that don’t know, of course, you know, probably the iceberg metaphor is when you’re looking at an iceberg in the middle of the ocean, you see a very little portion of what’s above water, and that typically icebergs formulate with a massive amount of ice underneath the water.
So a lot of what’s going on is way beyond the behavior that you are trying to manage with your thoughts or your heart and that iceberg man, I don’t know. Do people, what do you feel like when you think about dealing with that whole chunk of ice underneath the surface? It’s scary. It’s intimidating, it’s overwhelming.
It’s like, I don’t know how to manage myself with all that, but
[00:18:37] Kasie Morgan: I also think that it’s challenging and it can be very empowering because I think that when you’re able to give name to things that have happened to you, it becomes a lot less scary to think about it from that perspective instead of what’s wrong with me.
And that’s often the shift I wanna see in my office for anybody that comes in is that this is not about what’s wrong with you the majority of the time, right? This is about what has happened to you and how that is now transpiring in your life and in your relationships and in your employment, and, and really understanding that where you came from has had an impact on your brain and.
And the body and brain remember, and it carries it
[00:19:21] Chris Gazdik: through. You know, you’re really good at that. Kasie, I think in, I would imagine I haven’t observed you doing a therapy session, but hearing you talk about things, you bring that up a lot. Mm-hmm. , which disempowers people. And I think it’s really something that we should all, as therapists be focusing on and doing.
So young and old therapists out there alike pay attention to what you just said. Is,
is
[00:19:43] John-Nelson Pope: that from the body Keep score? Is that a bit of that? It
[00:19:47] Kasie Morgan: is a bit of that, yeah. Yeah. It’s really about like, you know, resiliency based focus therapies except and commitment. , but, but trauma, yeah. Yeah, trauma. Think the body keeps a score because that’s, that’s how it remembers how to react and keep you safe even when there’s not clear and present danger.
Yeah. Do,
[00:20:05] John-Nelson Pope: do you all do and I’m tacking a little bit differently, d do you all do any dream work with your clients or, or patients? In other words, talking about. Not. Is that kinda woo with
[00:20:19] Chris Gazdik: you guys? Or like, no, it’s not woo woo work. Woo. I use that phrase a lot. Oh, Woow. I do it. It, it’s, I don’t see a lot of trainings on that, John.
Mm-hmm. , I very rarely see our field dealing with that in pure psychology realms. They do a little bit, they’ve studied it and whatnot, but honestly, I don’t think we understand a lot of the dynamics of dreams. And I think, but that’s
[00:20:42] John-Nelson Pope: the, that is the iceberg. That’s what’s underneath
[00:20:47] Chris Gazdik: it gets at that. And what I tell people when it comes to that is that it, it isn’t so much what you dream and I don’t do a lot of dream analysis because there’s, there’s a lot of symbolism.
Mm-hmm. that’s specific to the person. It can be difficult to weed through. So when I am dealing with that, cuz I get a lot of questions on dreams, I will just go with what you feel in your dream. Or what do you think it means to you? Well, not even that, it’s it to me it’s the emotion that you’re feeling. Like I’m scared stay with never, or I’m confident and I killed the beast.
Or I’m whatever emotion is what I pay attention to a lot more just cuz I think it’s so much more clear. Yeah.
[00:21:27] Kasie Morgan: I’ve done a lot of like personal dream work in my own therapy sessions with my own therapist. Yeah. And I think that it’s wonderful if you can get to a place to where you can better understand those components.
Just because like whether it’s symbolism or not, I think that it has an impact. Overall about re-experiencing emotion, right? Like you write to a lot of that in your book, but I think that that re-experiencing part is really important sometimes with dream work, as you pointed out. Kasie,
[00:21:56] Chris Gazdik: let’s center us a little bit.
Sorry. The the two there No derail you what are No, you’re fine. That’s, that’s why we have an awesome panel, John, for, for real. But Victoria, what are the, what are the specific areas that let’s focus our conversation in to think about all these specific areas? I mean, we hit a real easily, right? You know, everyone thinks about all right, when you’re gonna control your mind and you’re gonna control your heart.
You know, that’s because of situations of an affair, but there are others I was thinking about Yeah,
[00:22:24] Victoria Pendergrass: like from this list. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Like coping with kids growing up, empty nesting divorce or being a kid of a divorce family, like. . Yeah.
[00:22:42] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Keep, keep going.
[00:22:43] Victoria Pendergrass: Oh, keep going. Okay. , just to center us in on ,
[00:22:46] Kasie Morgan: just like, just, just read the list.
[00:22:48] Victoria Pendergrass: Coping with separation when you’re not when you’re the one that’s not choosing the separation. Moral decisions based on cultural culture or your faith tradition. Major career decisions is what, I think that’s a typo.
[00:23:03] Kasie Morgan: I thought that was Cesar . Car ears. Car ears. Wow. And
[00:23:07] Victoria Pendergrass: graduating students facing the quote unquote rest of their life.
So
[00:23:12] John-Nelson Pope: I’m, I’m thinking in terms of Ericsson’s stages. Oh yeah. And most of. , I deal with a lot of of, of people that are in college age and dealing with the career issue. Yeah. With marriage, divorce separation, breaking up with partners. Right. Coming out, dealing
[00:23:34] Chris Gazdik: with, oh, that’s another big one.
Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I dig. Got I got that on. Yeah. That was on list. And,
[00:23:39] John-Nelson Pope: People that are facing retirement or are making those big decisions in midlife and. I think the, the children of empty nesting is, is is
[00:23:54] Chris Gazdik: tough. Yeah. These were some of the things I was just thinking about because there’s a lot of things in life that we are faced with and it isn’t just, you know, sexual relationships or marriage.
Mm-hmm. and dating, that’s where people go to first. But there are really a lot of these other areas that we really have to kind of be in mind, be in alignment to use your word, Kasie, on what is our heart trying to feel through our emotions? What is our head and thoughts trying to think through. And to add, John, your idea with the soul.
What is your soul really screaming for? Those are all playing out with these different areas of life as well. And it occurs to me as I’m saying this, That I, I, is it true? What do y’all think? Is it true that people might feel more confident in some of those other areas, such as life decisions, career decisions, thoughtfulness about that than we do romantic relationships?
I, I, I, I feel like anecdotally I hear people in more of a panic over dating relationships and marriage and stuff than some of these other areas when we’re trying to get in alignment with our thoughts and our heart. What, what do y’all think?
[00:25:19] Kasie Morgan: I don’t know. I think that The majority of people that I see now to, to kind of preface this, I would say that the population of people I would see range between the ages of like 21 to 50.
Normally, like I’m not getting a lot of people now prior to the age of 21 and not a lot of people over the age of 50, just in my own personal practice. Oh, just in your practice? Okay. Yeah. In my own personal practice I am seeing in all honesty, like post pandemic, right? So we’re still in the pandemic, but post 2020 up until today, I see a lot of existential crises.
Mm-hmm. that I think are all encompassing in a way. Like I’ve seen a lot of people go through a lot of marital issues, but also this like identity crisis of who I, who am I and why am I here? Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of single people that are not in relationships are not in significant like partnerships.
They, they are, they’ve been having a lot of existential crises about like being by themselves, being alone forever, transitioning into like the latter half of their life without someone never having kids. Like who takes care of you when you’re older. Like I’ve seen a lot of that. And then I’ve seen a lot of people younger than myself, probably more around Victoria’s age, that are having that whole career debacle because they went to online school, finished up online, and now they’re in like a real job.
But they don’t really know how to relate to coworkers. They don’t know how to relate to the real world. They don’t know how to do a lot of career orientate career things because of re-engagement with society. And so it’s interesting.
[00:26:52] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. I don’t wanna go too far off onto this tangent. Sure. Go ahead Victoria.
Well,
[00:26:55] Victoria Pendergrass: no, I was gonna say since I’m actually in a high school I feel like I’m seeing that with like the juniors and seniors That I’m seeing that some of them are like really like at a loss of where, like what they wanna do after mm-hmm. school. Mm-hmm. and it, I mean, yeah, you could attribute some of that to the like lack of socialization that they got.
Mm-hmm. and the, you know, beginning of their high school careers and
[00:27:23] John-Nelson Pope: so they’ve lost a real component of their lives.
[00:27:27] Chris Gazdik: It’s been a lot of loss.
[00:27:28] John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. Cause a lot of, as much socialization goes on in high schools mm-hmm. traditionally that prepares you for life and for living. Right. Yeah. And getting along with people outside your, your in your family
[00:27:43] Chris Gazdik: group.
But, you know, I want to go off on this tangent. I’m gonna hold us and pull us back. The reason why I want to go off on this tangent though, is because I’ve seen that in my own kids age 21 and 18. And it is just, I mean, it breaks my heart for what they just have not been able to learn with and engage on.
And, and a lot of this, I mean, it strikes me as we’re talking and thank you Victoria, for bringing that up that way because a lot of what we’re talking about, probably. Lends to additional deficits, you know? Mm-hmm. in, in the students and the young people for the experiences that they haven’t been able to have.
So that’s a really, that’s a really good point. Yeah. But let me pull this back. Okay. So, so do we influence yourself through your thoughts or do we influence yourself through your emotions? are, or both. I know, right? I guess that’s, I think they kind easy one for the
[00:28:34] Kasie Morgan: panel. I think they work in tandem in a lot of ways.
Yeah. Like you have an automatic thought. I mean, the crux of C B T, right. Thoughts and feelings get coupled together. Typically leading to a behavior. Right. And sometimes it’s a chicken and a egg situation, right. Like, I have a feeling first and that perpetuates a thought, or I have a thought first and perpetuates a feeling.
Yeah. And sometimes it’s hard to distinguish between the two, but I mean, I don’t know. That’s an interesting toss up.
[00:29:03] Chris Gazdik: John’s in thought. Well, I was, I was
[00:29:06] John-Nelson Pope: thinking I was between Greek thought ancient Greek thought, and Hebrew thought. I’m
[00:29:11] Chris Gazdik: sorry. Wow. Keep going. This can be interesting.
[00:29:15] John-Nelson Pope: The split is that you’ve, the traditional Greek thought is, is that we’re either mind or we’re we’re body.
Mm-hmm. , we’re either, either or. And so you don’t get the, you don’t get that nuance. It’s that there’s a real split. But in the Hebraic thinking ancient the, the ancient Jews is the idea that we’re a mind body unit together, and you can’t really separate it. And the idea of wholeness is how are, how are these different parts of you working together and that it becomes one.
Hmm. Okay. So wholeness is, is becoming, it’s not either or. It’s, it’s a process of becoming,
[00:30:06] Chris Gazdik: and I think that’s a really detailed and smart and depthy way of saying both. Right? Yeah. You know, because, because you can’t do one or the other. And that’s, that’s where we landed on, you might enjoy the show episode 27, going all the way back decision making, trust your gut or use your head.
And then, I don’t know who I did it with, but was it episode 2 0 2? I guess that was with y’all. We discussed the emotions. How can we, we discussed the show rather how emotions can drive day to day experiences. And so we were kicking this around during that episode. So it would be cool to kind of compare these two, because where we really land is you can’t do one or the other, but which one do you think the listening public quickly falls to?
Feelings. Yeah. Interesting. I was gonna say thoughts. Me too. , you went tire breaker John os thoughts? O Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So why did you say feelings,
[00:31:08] Kasie Morgan: Kasie? I feel like a lot of times people act on feelings first and then recognize the thought behind it. I
[00:31:17] Chris Gazdik: can see that. Okay. Right. Okay. I wonder if the three of us were thinking about how do we manage our behavior?
How do we manage our heart? How do we manage our thoughts? And people go with their thinking first in that domain. But it’s interesting the angle you took that which I wasn’t clear. You know, I wasn’t really clear on that. When, when you’re, when you’re looking at your behavior, you’re right, you’re probably going directly towards your emotions.
Mm-hmm. just feel the way I feel. What can I do about that? Yeah. Kind of
[00:31:49] Kasie Morgan: thinking. Yeah. I often explain it in practice about like, okay, let’s say that you’re driving behind somebody and the fir, the person in front of you gets in a car accident, right? And this kind of dips into like dialectical behavioral therapy between like the emotional brain, the rational brain, and the wise mind, which is that center fuge of thinking.
Yep. But you’re driving behind somebody. That person gets in a car accident. If I get out of the car or another person gets out of the car, I’m probably approaching the scene with some emotionality. I’m calling the police. I’m like, is everyone okay? What’s going on? You know, trying to assess like what’s happening or you
[00:32:22] John-Nelson Pope: did this to me, why did you run into my
[00:32:24] Kasie Morgan: Right, right, right.
Things like that. Okay. But
[00:32:27] Chris Gazdik: when
[00:32:27] Kasie Morgan: Compulsive reaction. Compulsive, yeah. Compulsive reaction. I’m in my emotional brain more than likely because something is hijacking my systems to kind of decide what we’re gonna do next. But when EMS arrives on the scene. Could you imagine if EMS arrives, they can’t operate that way and then uses that same operational system to approach the same accident.
They can’t do that, right? They have to use the, the irrational brain to really assess and like get in there and do the work. And they could triage and they have to triage and do whatever’s next. Now, what happens though is that both parties leaving the accident who have beared witness to the accident and helped rescue the accident, have to decompress that in a different way to balance it out.
So if I’m high in my emotional zone, doing something rational can help me balance. So if I’m really high with feelings, doing something that requires a lot of thought can actually be very helpful in the moment to balance myself out. If I’m the EMS person, which I work with a lot of EMS and first responders mm-hmm.
and I have to approach a traumatic accident with a rational brain, having talking about it, working through that narrative and giving some emotionality and connection to another person. Can help balance me out. And so I think it’s interesting how the brain works that sometimes to get the balance, doing an opposite action can really benefit whether you’re starting from emotional place or starting from a thoughts place.
[00:33:54] John-Nelson Pope: That’s interesting. And I was thinking in terms of working with a lot of my ems my first responders mm-hmm. and medical professionals, is that so often they have to be very rational and logical and, and, and by the book and figure out, make those decision trees. And it’s all very rational. But when they let loose, this is where sometimes they get in trouble.
They have trouble with their relationships. They don’t know how to deal with their emotions or to, to do that constructively. There’s a, there’s an addiction issues mm-hmm. that they have. And so what you’re saying is, is a, a wonderful way of, of recognizing both mm-hmm. the, the thoughts and the emotions is, is that what you’re saying?
[00:34:48] Chris Gazdik: Yes. Is probably why we have both. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and what’s interesting is we’re not talking about the spirit. You’re calling it the soul. We could call it the subconscious and how that kind of comes into the mix. Mm-hmm. as well. Mm-hmm. . And I think that is by far, and the reason why I wasn’t gonna try to tackle it tonight, John, but I love that you brought it up, right, Uhhuh, because by far the least understood Uhhuh the least, that we have ability to directly manage the least, that we have the understanding, even at this point in science, to, to interact with even, I mean, the best thing we’ve got is hypnosis, which is really cool stuff.
What? No, I don’t like hypnosis. Okay. Well, but that, but, but that’s, I don’t really either. I don’t use it a lot for, for very specific reasons, which I won’t go. Do you find that now? Manipulative? I do. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. But, but, but what else do we have of really influencing. , you know your spirit. Mm-hmm.
your soul. How do you know which? I don’t really have an answer. I don’t know that we have an answer. Does anybody have an answer? Oh,
[00:35:59] Kasie Morgan: I think to influence the spirit and the soul. Well, I think it depends on what your practices are. You know, like if you’re about your behavior. Yeah. Well, I mean, that’s part of the behavior, but I think that, you know, in like speaking from Christian religious tradition, that is a relationship though.
Like I think outside of yourself, it’s a relationship with a different entity, right? Sure. So having that relationship and the influence of that relationship in your life is making a commitment to thinking through like the, the teachings and the religious underpinnings of decision making commandments what you’re called to do.
Yeah. Let me, being in alignment
[00:36:35] Chris Gazdik: with the will of God, I, I think if we, I’m not trying to avoid religion. . But what I’m trying to pull us back into, it’s an interesting thought process to think about just purely subconsciousness. Mm-hmm. , you know, you’re right. I’m, I’m with you. Totally. But if you’re thinking purely from a secular perspective without religion in play, we can still say that we have a subconsciousness.
We still have mm-hmm. . That’s what you mean by soul. And I You like to use the word spirit? Sure. How do we influence that? I think we influence that through our thoughts or our feelings, and then bring forward what our subconsciousness is trying to tell us. Yeah. I was gonna
[00:37:15] Kasie Morgan: say, or the subconscious influences our thoughts and our feelings.
Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Like,
[00:37:19] Chris Gazdik: but, but we, we can observe that mm-hmm. and interact with. I think it’s a true statement only through our thoughts and feelings. Is that a true Yeah. Statement? So, so what says the pastor, oh dear religion, here we go. No, the
[00:37:35] John-Nelson Pope: therapy. Therapy, because therapy is a way of, of being able to center one’s thoughts and feelings together and integrate the self into a whole being.
Wow.
[00:37:47] Chris Gazdik: That’s an advertisement for therapy. If I ever heard one. Say that again. Cause that’s on point. I can’t say it.
[00:37:53] Kasie Morgan: Yeah. It’s a way to integrate. I like that. I like the word integration. Yeah. Because that, that really
[00:37:59] Chris Gazdik: is what has to, that’s feelings together.
[00:38:00] John-Nelson Pope: Mm-hmm. , right? Yeah. And, and make a whole person.
And make oneself more hope.
[00:38:05] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. The therapeutic process.
[00:38:08] John-Nelson Pope: It’s not an in, it’s. You don’t just get cured of, of an, of a, of a serious mental illness or a physical illness. You are in a process of becoming more whole. Right? Mm-hmm. .
[00:38:21] Chris Gazdik: Okay. Absolutely. Which,
[00:38:23] Victoria Pendergrass: yeah, I think that’s part of like, and I may have mentioned this before, but like part of when, and actually had a client asked me about this today, but the fact that I, I, like, we don’t, we’re not here to fix people mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. , like we’re just here to help guide them to like a better self. But I’m not here to like heal you or fix you or like, you know?
[00:38:47] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Though we’re in the healing profession for sure. And there’s healing that goes on through a facilitated process. Right, right. And, and I think that’s John what I hear you kind of saying, which.
The therapeutic process,
[00:39:02] John-Nelson Pope: and that is a wondrous thing to be a part of. Oh my gosh. As a therapist,
[00:39:06] Chris Gazdik: it’s, it’s huge honor. Yeah. It is a honor. It’s a huge honor. The people let
[00:39:11] John-Nelson Pope: you in their lives and they share their most, their deepest selves, their most authentic selves,
[00:39:16] Chris Gazdik: what we do for a living. I, it’s very humbling.
It, it is hugely humbling. Yeah. Mm-hmm. and, yeah. Young therapists pay attention to the respect of the process. When somebody comes to your office for an initial therapy session, it, it is, to me, it’s one of the most biggest deals we deal with, and I say it every time I meet with somebody new. I, I go through as part of my spiel to, well, and I
[00:39:40] Victoria Pendergrass: think it’s also like when then they choose to come back Uhhuh.
Like they, you know, I mean, yeah. You have those that just come see and, I mean, and don’t click with you, but when they choose to like actively come back. Oh yeah. That’s when it’s really, at least, that’s when it’s really humbling for me. Mm-hmm. ,
[00:39:58] Chris Gazdik: because then. Yeah, you could be a part of the process, right?
Yeah. You
[00:40:02] John-Nelson Pope: think there’s a, there’s a, there’s another word, another Greek word. I’m sorry. . . Dynamist. Yes. Okay. Dynamite. You’re handling dynamite. Oh. When you’re in this process and both of you, you, the therapist and the client, or the patient is, is participating in that, that dynamic.
[00:40:26] Chris Gazdik: That, and that’s a dynamist.
A dynamist, yeah. It’s powerful, you know, and, and, and, and for those of you listening and wondering, you know, about the mysteriousness of therapy, it’s also just there’s not a lot of mystery that goes on. It’s just, it’s having conversations and in a conversation that is very different than any that you can have in a life outward, because it’s a hundred percent focused on your process, and that’s what makes therapy.
You know, when I’m supervising younger clinicians, I always love to make sure they understand this is the first time in a therapy session, quite possibly this person has had a conversation like this. You can’t, you almost cannot replicate it. Outside of a therapy relationship.
[00:41:11] Kasie Morgan: Yeah. I think that’s why I often encourage people that we, you know, because they do, they, they, they really want to know like, how do I stop myself from thinking this?
How do I stop myself from feeling? They really do. They wanna know that, and, and I think it’s really more about not necessarily stopping the thoughts or stopping the feelings, because a lot of this comes to us automatically. But I think if you can make a shift in your life from reactivity to responsiveness, that is the point of therapy.
If you can become less initially reactive and more thoughtfully responsive, then I think that is the power, that is the control, that is the ability to mitigate and become an alignment with your thoughts and feelings. So people are
[00:41:54] John-Nelson Pope: assuming the responsibility.
[00:41:56] Chris Gazdik: Yes, exactly. So that’s a nice segue. I thought so.
That’s why I add it in there, Kasie. So . Well, you could have segued to the emotions cause I wanted to hit the emotions first, but we’ll go in reverse order. . So the segue is, yeah, how do you manage your thoughts? What, what do you do when you’re doing, when you’re making a choice to intervene on your thoughts?
How, let’s focus for a. On what do you do? We’ve got cognitive behavioral therapy. Everyone talks about doing it. I mean, that’s the key and crucial part. Yeah. Of the major ingredients of what we’re doing with C B T Cognitive behavioral therapy. We are looking at your cognition. Bless you. Bless you. Neil.
That probably showed up on the mics. Good time. That was a good one. , you know, cognition in your thoughts and mitigating the damaging negative thinking patterns. You know, in AA they talk about stinking thinking. Mm-hmm. , they ever hear that expression. Oh yeah. Right. And, and reframing the things that you’re thinking about and, and identifying thinking errors that you have in the thought process.
In cognitive behavioral therapy, I always like to. At permanency words, directly observing yourself in the way that you’re thinking every time you blah, blah, blah. I always, you never do da, da, da. I always see every time you do like any of those, everyone, no one forever words, that’s an opportunity to cognitively reframe your thinking process.
Like I, I’m, I’m hitting all these things and I’m rambling on. I guess I’ll let you guys join, but how do we manage our thoughts? Right? Yeah. Like, that’s what we wanna focus on for a moment. So
[00:43:41] Kasie Morgan: I think honestly, what I see, In my office is the first step is accepting the thoughts. Because what I see a lot of is a lot of avoidance of thoughts.
Like you, a thought comes in and people want to suppress the thought or hide it or push it away because it’s uncomfortable or it creates a feeling of uncomfortability or a feeling that they don’t wanna experience. And so I see a lot of suppression of thought and to me, the first thing that we want to do is work on accepting that thought that comes because then we can deal
[00:44:14] Chris Gazdik: with it.
As crazy as it might be. Yeah. As weird as it might be. As weird
[00:44:18] Kasie Morgan: as it might be,
[00:44:19] Chris Gazdik: as scary as it might be. Absolutely. As awkward and unacceptable as it might be. Yes. You’re being ironic. Don’t you think, tell you these are the things that people think. No, you don’t know what I think. Right. And what I hear you saying is No, it is.
Okay.
[00:44:39] Kasie Morgan: Yeah. Because a thought is not an action nor a behavior, right? It’s just a thought. Right. So let’s talk about it and let’s talk about how we got to a place to where these are the things that we’re kinda keeping on this broken record of thought. I like it. I love it
[00:44:53] Victoria Pendergrass: actually. Yeah. And I, and I like to remind my patients, or clients, sorry, my clients that or patient whatever that, you know, kinda along the lines of what Kasie is saying is that yes, it’s just a thought and it’s, most of them are automatic.
So when you accept it, it’s, I mean, that’s the thought, is the thought, but what is important is what you do with the thought. Mm-hmm. like, okay, do you avoid it or do you try to reframe it or rephrase it or refocus it or whatever to make it either more positive or whatever you need it to be. if it’s say a negative thought mm-hmm.
or whatever kind of thought it is
[00:45:35] Chris Gazdik: or something that you don’t want to do, that the thought leads you to, to doing it. Yeah. That like, like these are ways to, to manage that. Like, you know, the top of the show, right? Can you control your heart and can control your mind? And the answer is yes. And these get to like the, how do you do that?
What are the actions, what are the, the methodologies? How do you deal with that in therapy? But also just how do you deal with that in your life, right? Yeah. And, and, and people can be empowered
[00:46:05] Kasie Morgan: that way. Can I give a personal example? Okay. Sure. Go for it. So going through a separation, headed towards divorce, this is the first year that I’ve had Thanksgiving day.
Without my biological children, right? Yeah. So first, first holiday. First major milestone, an event. Okay. Tough stuff. So initially, I’m not gonna lie, I was like an emotional wreck about it, right? Like, this is the hardest day of my life. I’m calling my mom. Like all the things. But then I realized from something that she said that helped me kind of regain control over the thought.
My mom, oh, you know, is the date important or is the experience important? And what that helped me do was understand that. , I can still have Thanksgiving with my children. It’s not gonna be on Thursday, the 26th or whatever, but we had Thanksgiving on the 19th of November. Okay. And so we had a full Thanksgiving meal.
My kids are present. Is it the experience or is it the date That’s important. And to me, that really reshaped the way I was able to kind of come to terms with it and think about it, because it’s really not the date, it’s the experience. And so had I tried to ignore the thought, suppress it, push it away, or the feelings or you know, like try to numb out or whatever the case may be, and just sit and wallow in that sorrow.
I would’ve been a wreck throughout that regular Thanksgiving day when my sibling showed up with all of their children and I’m the only sibling without my kids. There was a lot of things. But the reshaping and reframing like what, what Victoria was saying was vitally important for me to regain control over my emotional state and my mental state to be able to make it through the holiday.
Wow. And so I think it also, what that does is it better prepares you in the future for similar experiences, right? Mm-hmm. , like, if you are successful in getting through this experience and the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, then there’s nothing to say that you won’t be successful in the future when interfacing with the same kind of challenges.
[00:48:10] Chris Gazdik: Right. I really appreciate that, Kasie. It’s, it’s a, it’s a powerful depiction in real time, in a genuine way, and thank you for your courage to share and show that. Sure. Because I think, honestly, it gives people the hope that I would love to create by this. episode The hope that people can really get through those tough times in their marriage, that they can really get through this scary time of graduating after high school.
Mm-hmm. or College John, you know, this, this tough time of bankruptcy that you fall into or these, these experiences of feeling the way you feel when you’re coming out, reconciling, being gay or lesbian or trans. You know these tough times when you’re really attracted to your coworker and you want to have an affair, like, you know, you have domain over the experiences that you have.
That’s just so powerful case.
[00:49:05] John-Nelson Pope: So you’re saying you can choose your own. . Yeah. In other words, how to, how to approach that. And I, I, I would like to back up with what Kasie said is, is that in my if you don’t know, I’m a Presbyterian minister as well as a therapist and, and a professor. And the the thing is, is that I very rarely with our family got to celebrate Christmas.
Yeah. With a lot of families, I mean, with our extended family. And a wonderful thing that my mom did and she’s still alive, is that she would hold Christmas two days after Christmas. Yeah. So, in other words mm-hmm. . So we were able to, to fully participate in the experience. And I think some of my, my brothers and my sisters were appreciated that as well, because it took some of the pressure off of them.
Mm-hmm. .
[00:50:03] Chris Gazdik: So, you know, the freedom that we have is counteracted by the chains of guilt and shame and almost obsessive or compulsive adherence to strict standards. And I’m sorry, the world just doesn’t operate very well in that real way with so many of the dynamics that we have going on with first responders having no schedules and military families across the Yeah.
The pond. And, you know, things happening all around the world that, you know, changed families, Kasie, and, you know, shifting issues in our life. I mean, it look like, have the emotional freedom to, to be in control through some of these methods in some of these ways. I, I, I love this little segment that we.
[00:50:53] John-Nelson Pope: One more thought because where y’all were going with this and you were telling about the story and all of that.
I sometimes I have my clients write their life story. Mm-hmm. and narrative therapy. Narrative therapy. And they get to re-author. Yeah. The, the, the story. So one of the things when I go with my client is, okay we talk I do the, in a sense, a little exploratory interview and they’ll stop at a certain spot and then say, okay, and we.
We reflect on
[00:51:27] Chris Gazdik: that. Mm-hmm. , Kasie’s wick at me because she sees Roman numeral three with item C underneath. The thing is absolutely that on point. John, as always, we’re on the same page because there’s a lot in a story. There’s a huge amount in a story, and that has to do with your thoughts and what you’re thinking through that.
And, and you’re right, the narrative strategies that we operate with that, that you can literally rewrite your story in the way that you think about it, experience it, and, and, and even remember it, and that we’re not changing facts. We’re not changing events. Mm-hmm. , but we’re changing what they mean to you.
What the experiences and, and I’ve had people with trauma stories for sure. Mm-hmm. write and rewrite and rewrite and rewrite. Yet again over a period of time. The processing of that. Well that, that’s
[00:52:15] John-Nelson Pope: cognitive processing therapy. Well,
[00:52:18] Chris Gazdik: yeah. On ccpt. Right on. It’s a component of that. Also Constructiveness theory.
You know, I
[00:52:23] Kasie Morgan: think it’s wonderful too when you look at the narrative and regaining power over the narrative, because that also helps with generational things to come right. Like the narrative that maybe has played you for so long can stop with you, and so that gives power to the person. I think that, did you say generational components?
Yeah. Yeah. So that like generational traumas that have happened over and over again can stop with you. Mm-hmm. ,
[00:52:52] Chris Gazdik: it’s a very powerful reality. Mm-hmm. that I. early on in my career, had no idea of understanding what that was. Mm-hmm. , and I wanna tell you real quick the journey of where I experienced that.
Cause I heard a, I’m a substance abuse clinician as well as mental health clinician. And early on in my career, I heard somebody make a statement that I was like, nah, come on. That’s, that’s crazy talk right there. There’s no way that doesn’t make, that doesn’t make any sense to me. And what they said was, if you take one person’s alcoholic dysfunction in, in the family system, that it takes three generations to recover and heal from that one person’s reality.
And what you just spoke to that, and I’ve come to kind of find, of course, like of course that is to say if your dad was an alcoholic, then your sobriety, your kid’s sobriety, by the time your grandkids come around, they’re free. If not free from those generational realities. Like that’s a mouthful. That’s a lot there.
But I think
[00:53:57] Victoria Pendergrass: it also implies that it means that the people in those three generations need to be working towards Oh yeah. Correct. Correcting and recognition. It’s not, yeah. And that they’re not just sitting idle by and just like,
[00:54:12] Chris Gazdik: yeah, you have a
[00:54:12] Victoria Pendergrass: job to do, but you still have to work to make it to where then by that fourth generation, they are freer.
But if there is no progress being made, and I think we see a lot of that right now with like mental health being so much like advocated for, and people actually wanting and to break those generational traumas and curses and whatever you wanna call it. Mm-hmm. , I think that is, we’re like working more towards being able to, you know, they’re setting up their kids to be able to, you know, be that.
Third, fourth generation. That can be
[00:54:53] John-Nelson Pope: free. But that, that gives a person a motivation for change and choice. And so that person next, let’s say your father was in, was an alcoholic and he’s been dead 20 or 30 years. You were raised in that family that, that there was, in a sense, you took on a lot of his characteristics.
You are, in a sense, a dry drunk, and I’m sorry about using old terms, but Yeah. But, but there’s a sense that one comes to that awareness that that’s what you were saying. Victoria
[00:55:27] Chris Gazdik: thing. Mm-hmm. , you know, there’s a, there’s a powerful meme that I saw recently that gets at this, that I want to point out and add to the points that you’re talking about.
With this picture, there’s a lot that could be said in a picture. I’m gonna try to describe. It demonstrates like what you can actively do. As you said, Victoria, you, you are in a different generation when you’re, you still have actions to take. And so the meme is this, this, this tall old man standing on the left of, of the page and he’s got coming out of his mouth, you could just tell Venom.
Mm-hmm. , it’s an angry old man standing. And just to the right of that man is another younger, middle aged man holding up like a shield. Mm-hmm. right in his arm at that anger, criticism, angst that you can see coming from the old man. And then he’s kind of also at the same time kneeling. And so you have like this downward trend.
Where the angry venom is coming, the shield is there, he’s on a kneel, and to the right of him on the page is this young boy who’s facing the opposite direction watching TV or playing a video game or whatever. And you can tell that the middle aged man is kind of in his ear. Mm-hmm. , you know, I love you. I support you.
Mm-hmm. , I’m here for you. While he is holding the shield, I mean it, to me, it’s just, you know, when, when you have these family dynamics and these things, that’s very vivid. Is vivid. Yeah. Like, you can do that for yourself and for the people that you love and care about, i e are parenting underneath of you.
It’s a,
[00:57:23] Victoria Pendergrass: I think that’s why this whole the whole gentle parenting mm-hmm. thing is like so much on the, like, it is such a big thing right now is because you have so many people trying to set up their kids. For better experiences, better lives, because you’re actively choosing to, and it’s not saying, you know, that everybody is perfect, but that at least people are trying to Yeah.
Make improvements. So,
[00:57:52] Chris Gazdik: super good things I wanna end up with, with this thought intervention, I believe. And see that choosing your focus points are a huge component of this as well. Mm-hmm. right now, I didn’t realize this when I was writing that book. Re-understanding emotions and becoming your best Self.
I am gonna be making a class and a course out of it as my attention. I guess I just announced that Neil to the world, so now we better deliver. Right? And, and in doing that, what I did was I took all the chapters of the book and I, I came out with four similar. Areas of, of whittling that whole writing project down and one of those four areas, literally the whole book is like, how do I understand and manage all my emotions?
And the, one of the whole areas of that was focus points. I, I, I had quotes over the years. That’s how the book got created. Mm-hmm. and whittling all of that material down of how do you manage yourself. I came to focus points and choosing what you focus on to me has become a really big part of how do you manage your heart?
How do you manage your mind? You choose literally what you focus on. Is that, I’m sure you guys can run with that. Mm-hmm. , does that make sense?
[00:59:10] Kasie Morgan: Yeah. I mean, I think it makes a lot of sense to you choosing what you’re focusing on. I mean, I think it’s back to the integration that, that John was talking about as well.
So like, if. If my thoughts and feelings are driving me to want to like like lay down or sit down or rest in that, or my brain is telling me like, you know, you need to like, shut down or shut off or distract, or things like that. I think if you refocus on doing an opposite action of getting up, invigorating movement, like doing things, working out, doing things like that, it can really help bring balance to the brain and body,
[00:59:48] Chris Gazdik: right?
Mm-hmm. . You, you literally do choose mm-hmm. what you focus on. And unfortunately we get stuck in glass half empty kind of thing. I mean, that’s the perial glass half empty, glass, half full. Which one do you recognize? Yeah. And, and it’s something to drink. Right, right. And that’s how I see it. And it’s something there to sustain you.
It’s something that’s there for you, not something that’s been taken from you, not something that’s been, you know, drained already. It, it, the that is, I’m telling you, it is a powerful reality and I can, we. I’m gonna have a lot of time to use all the examples of this, but I could go on and on and on in thinking about, you know, what we, what we focus on.
If you, if you focus on the sexuality of your business partner and and attraction, what do you think is gonna happen? Furthermore, if you focus on the aspects of your wife that you cannot stand, or your husband that drives you nuts, what do you think you’re gonna be experiencing? If you focus on the things that your kids do wrong and catch them and correct them and criticize them?
How do you think this is gonna go? Like, I could go on and I wanna
[01:00:58] Victoria Pendergrass: say I preach this to my kids at school all the time. If you focus on the fact that you’re gonna fail a. You’re like
[01:01:06] Chris Gazdik: self-fulfilling
[01:01:06] Victoria Pendergrass: prophecy. Yeah. So if you can change that and focus on how you’re gonna pass a test instead, like you’re most, you’re more likely to have way better outcome.
[01:01:16] Kasie Morgan: Right. But I think if you also trace that back, like what Chris and John and everybody else, I think has said today, like if you trace it back, more than likely this is what has happened to you, right? Mm-hmm. . And so from like, family of origin or how you grew up. And so I think my kind of like takeaway from today would be that old adage, and I think I’ve said it on here before, is if you don’t heal what hurt you, you start to bleed on people that didn’t cut you.
Mm-hmm. . And that’s your kids, your wife, your coworkers. So really trying to understand and explore, like focusing on healing what hurt you so you don’t bleed on people that aren’t cutting you. Say that again Kasie. If you don’t heal what hurt you, you will bleed on people that didn’t cut you. It’s a really,
[01:02:01] Chris Gazdik: really cool phrase.
Mm-hmm. . That’s wonderful. Let’s not forget, in wrapping up here, we didn’t talk a lot about influencing and managing your emotions. I think John, earlier you were kind of talking about well, the therapeutic process gets at that. Right, exactly. And also, I wanna point the listening audience. If you’ve really enjoyed the show, we don’t have any time to go back over it.
I was, I was thinking it was so important to review that. I was gonna go back through it where we did where is it? Episode LA Shoot. I thought I had it, but 2 0 2. 2 0 2, that’s right. In episode 2 0 2, where we really took a deep dive on Ad Larry and psychology specifically, and how you go through paying attention to your emotion.
Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , you’ve gotta allow your emotion to be present. Because as we had a in depth conversation about that, I think that was me and you, or whoever it was, was here. I forget. I think I was here. You were definitely, all four of us were here. , those emotions are really trying to tell you something. And you would best be advised to pay attention.
Yeah.
[01:03:10] Kasie Morgan: You have to feel your feelings so you don’t become them, like feel them and then do something about them. Mm-hmm. so that you don’t have to overwhelmingly always become them. Mm-hmm. ,
[01:03:19] Chris Gazdik: that’s empowering. That’s, you know, living, that’s being in control of your mind and your thought. You can go either way.
You can, you can influence in through your thinking. You can influence in through your, your emotions. And I think that we need to come together as a panel, John, to figure out how we can influence through our soul. But that’s a whole nother next level. Right? Save that for another day. Baptism. Right? Just kidding.
Amen. Thank you . So listen, I personally, I’ve just really enjoyed this conversation, guys. Yeah. I think this has been a wonderful conversation because this is something that I find people struggling with intently, they’re struggling with feeling in control of their heart and feeling in control of their thoughts.
Mm-hmm. and feeling disempowered. And find yourself in stuck spots, landed in places where you’re completely disempowered. Click, rewind. Listen to this show again because I think that you’ll find seriously like a lot of nuggets here that have really can lead to you being in control of your heart, in balanced and alignment with your thoughts so that you can be a whole person.
As we’ve talked about today, take care, stay well, and we’ll see you soon. Bye bye.