There are so many times in life that you will fail so this is a topic that everyone can relate to. The panel starts by talking about what is failure, and what does failure mean to you by looking at how you identify it. So how do you deal with the sense of grief that this brings when you fail? How do you overcome when an outcome happens that makes you feel like you failed?
Tune in to see Dealing with Failure Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Listen for the following takeaways from the show:
- Current Event: The struggle to find in-patient mental health accommodations is severely lacking and frustrating.
- What does Failure mean to you?
- Fear of failure chooses a path for you before you fail.
- Here are 30 powerful quotes to help you overcome the fear the failure.
- Just because you think you failed, does not mean it really was a failure.
- What are you really wanting if you think you failed?
- Failure is a loss…we have to deal with that grief.
- Episode 72 Is Fear your Friend or Foe?
- Your attitude after failure will determine a positive or negative life lesson.
- How do you develope a growth mindset?
- Very Well Mind gives you 10 Healthy Ways to Cope with Failure.
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Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
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Episode #210 Transcription
[00:00:00] Chris Gazdik: Hello everybody. You have found through a therapist size. This is December the 15th. We are in the middle of the holiday season. I hope things are going well for you. That you’re coping getting through a tough time. That is for many. But Merry Christmas in this holiday season. We have Kasie out.
My gosh, I was out like last week. You might should be out. Miss Victoria. How you, you going dear? Yeah, I’m good.
[00:00:33] Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, it’s a little muffled. Yeah. With a double ear infection,
[00:00:36] Chris Gazdik: but you know, gosh, it is everywhere. John, you, you, you, you’re the healthy one of the crew. You right
[00:00:41] John-Nelson Pope: over That’s and I’m the old one of the crew, but, cause I’ve had every disease you could possibly Don’t get sick.
I don’t get sick anymore. .
[00:00:50] Victoria Pendergrass: I, I look forward to those
days. .
[00:00:52] Chris Gazdik: Yes indeed. I don’t get sick very ever much at all either, but dang it just, it did. It got me. So we are gonna be talking about, hello? I just kicked the camera. Neil . He gets so frustrated with my squirming y’all. So we’re talking about failure today and the three questions I’m thinking about that I want you to.
Ponder as we discuss is what does failure mean to you, in your mind? What is the result really of the failure? Like really what is next? And that’s the two questions that I did because I didn’t do three. How about that? Yeah. God, we are out of sorts. So this is the human emotional experience. We really do endeavor to figure this thing out together.
You get personal insights directly from therapists in here personal time in your car and home, knowing it’s not the delivery of therapy services in any way, right? So contact at through a therapist eyes.com is where we get good feedback from you to interact. We do the Facebook Live. We’re adding YouTube maybe sometime in the beginning of the new year, and that’s gonna be fun projects.
Keep in mind, we have some cool things coming out with the, through a therapist size tribe. You’ve got the book that I’m writing on marriage. Have I said that out loud yet? Yes, you have. I did. I didn’t say the topic though. Yeah, you did.
[00:02:07] Victoria Pendergrass: Did I, you said it was on marriage? Yeah.
[00:02:09] Chris Gazdik: Oh, okay. And also a course that we’re, we’re doing a video experience that I’m super excited about.
So I’m just gonna pop that out there for your awareness to begin looking for some cool, cool things down the down the pipes. I think that we’re going to do a current event to start off the show, though. And we’re all three gonna get pissed off
[00:02:30] Victoria Pendergrass: probably. If it’s something, the same thing you mentioned to me earlier
[00:02:34] Chris Gazdik: today, then it is.
You didn’t mention that to me. It is.
[00:02:38] Victoria Pendergrass: Well, cuz you weren’t here at 7:00 AM this morning.
[00:02:41] Chris Gazdik: I’m like, I, I wasn’t here at 7:00 AM either. Let’s point that out. I was kind of, Astounded at this reality that came to me. And I, I wasn’t sure if I was gonna do a current event or not on, no. I was doing show prep and I saw this article that was out there that caught my eye that was related to this issue where, listen, a friend of mine needed inpatient care for her son and simply put, she couldn’t get it.
Yeah. Just couldn’t get it. Exactly. And this is specifically for adolescent kids. So this article that I found I thought was interesting where was it from? Lack of access to evidence-based mental health care poses Great grave threat. And the American Medical Association was talking about this. So some of the highlights from this article that’s on our show notes, so you’ll, you can catch this.
There’s clearly a mental health crisis cited in added. You know, and, and really predated Covid, but Covid has added to it in tremendous times. Covid has
[00:03:45] Victoria Pendergrass: added ex exponentially.
[00:03:47] Chris Gazdik: Right? Yeah. And I, I maintained that this crisis that people are talking about, people love crisis and all this kind of stuff, really began when we closed down mental health centers back in the early nineties and mm-hmm.
late nineties really. But just if we need any evidence to the mental health crisis that people are saying, if you’d be willing to share. Victoria, you shared another, unrelated to this current event that sort of. Bothered you or hurt your heart, if you will.
[00:04:18] Victoria Pendergrass: Oh, about the passing of, yes. Yeah, so his name was Steven Twitch, Bosch boss.
He was the he was got a start on like, so you think you can dance a really talented dancer. And then he became the DJ for the Ellen De Generous show and later became like an executive producer of the show and all this stuff. And he’s 40 years old and they found him in a, a hotel room Wednesday, Tuesday night, Wednesday morning.
And he, from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Yeah. And I think it’s just been weighing a lot, kind of really heavy on my heart and a lot of other hearts is because like, you know, it’s such a real thing. Like you see this person that just like, Illuminates light and joy and like, you know, happiness. Like he had just posted a dancing video like two, three days ago.
Like Right, right. You know, and there’s like, and like, you know, so you have all this video evidence of saying , happiness showed of happiness and three beautiful kids, a beautiful wife for loving family. Yeah. It’s the image. And so, and so that’s, I think a really, just as a therapist, I think that’s just way hard that like, you know, a lot of times people don’t reach out for help or they’re afraid to reach out for, for help or they’re, you know, they do.
But sometimes, I mean, yeah. And you never, you never really know what is going on behind the phone, behind the camera, behind the scenes in a person’s life.
[00:05:45] Chris Gazdik: And we’ve begun to become aware of the realities. Mental health has been so in the forefront, and I’m excited about that. But this current event, which matches with, you know, my recent event and observation, where this person’s kid was 16 years old needing to be inpatient facility.
The acuity, the acuity of their care needs were based on self-harm or, you know, dangerousness, which we, which level goes to the level of inpatient care. And so they’re reaching out and they sit in the emergency room for like days, yeah. Days because there’s no beds available. And I actually reached out to a friend of mine who does placements and told me essentially that there are, this blows my mind.
No facilities close to us. The closest place that you can now get, I am told, is for an impatient adolescent unit. Is it Raleigh? Reno, Nevada.
[00:06:50] John-Nelson Pope: Reno, Nevada, John, unbelievable.
[00:06:53] Victoria Pendergrass: Keep in mind that we are in Gaston County, North Carolina. This is to the other. Near Charlotte. Near Charlotte. This is to
[00:07:00] Chris Gazdik: the other shining sea.
Oh my God. In our country. I, I don’t even have a category for that. Okay. Yeah. A month ago, they shut their facility down because insurance companies were generally will not pay for care after 30 days. Mm-hmm. and the acuity is just too high, and so these facilities cannot function.
[00:07:22] John-Nelson Pope: They’re having a hard time stabilizing their function, their patients inpatient.
Yes. Yeah.
[00:07:28] Chris Gazdik: And so there are no facilities. I just,
[00:07:30] Victoria Pendergrass: and it’s, it’s not from the point of view. Oh, there’s no open beds. What it used to be, the problem used to be, the problem is that they just, all the beds were full.
[00:07:40] Chris Gazdik: That’s what we talked
[00:07:40] Victoria Pendergrass: about this morning. Yeah. And now it’s shifted to, there literally just are no beds because there is no facility to even just house The beds
[00:07:49] Chris Gazdik: cannot understand it.
It’s unbelievable. What about
[00:07:52] John-Nelson Pope: personnel? That’s also something that’s
[00:07:55] Chris Gazdik: play. Yeah, play. You’re right John. That plays into, if you cheated and checked the article, but let me get back to it. So the AMA is cheat talking about you. What’s that? I did cheat. Oh, you did cheat a little
[00:08:05] John-Nelson Pope: bit. Okay. But, but I’m also aware that there’s a lack of psychiatrist
[00:08:10] Chris Gazdik: and there’s a massive lack of psychiatrists.
And so the AMA is talking about, you know, possible solutions explored. One, you can increase the size of the mental health workforce. Okay. Two. Mm-hmm. create more residency slots in psychiatry. Okay. Three primary care faci physicians are, are important in substantial contributors screening for an addressing condition, addressing conditions.
That’s a quote. And they say 70% of all care visits including a behavioral health component. It just makes me like, that means you go to your family doctor, y’all, and 70% of the time there’s a mental health factor. In that primary care’s office. Okay, thi this next one. Listen closely to this. Victoria and John.
Yes. Okay. Okay. Because I don’t even know what I’m about to say As part of the AMA’s description here. I, I don’t know what this is. Okay. They’re part of their process of solutions for these issue payers and policy makers must act urgently to ensure primary care physicians and their care teams have the support they need to provide coordinated equitable care for their patients and families, including long-term sustainable funding for training and education for physician practices on implement b h I, limiting harmful health plan, utilization management review practices for integrative services, and improving ensure network adequacy.
John, does that make any sense? Seriously.
[00:09:35] John-Nelson Pope: I don’t, I don’t know what that means.
[00:09:38] Victoria Pendergrass: I was gonna say, this looks like a bunch of gibberish
to
[00:09:40] John-Nelson Pope: me. . Yeah. It’s double speak. Yeah. You, you need a translator Yeah. To, to do that. I
[00:09:48] Victoria Pendergrass: have no idea what that means. I mean,
[00:09:50] Chris Gazdik: here, here’s my thing. The, the reality is for goodness sakes, we do not have services now in place.
Yeah. Because there hasn’t been funding for the services that are necessary. It goes
[00:10:05] John-Nelson Pope: back a long
[00:10:06] Chris Gazdik: ways. It does. It does. But when we left the asain asylums, John, it’s what we used to call ’em insane asylums. They were used to be called asylums, uhhuh. And the public Right. Added the word insane asylums in the fifties and sixties in these horrible treatment facilities.
We, we, a lot of horror movies, they were, they’re the. Topic of a lot of horror movies. We figured out that we needed to release them into the community, into community mental health center systems, and we had all kinds of wraparound services that were paid for John. Mm-hmm. , it got way better. This is in the eighties when I came in, in the nineties.
Mm-hmm. , they were really in place. Robust wraparound case management, developmental disabilities, substance abuse services, adult, adolescent. We were doing med management, we were doing crisis intervention. We were doing, you know, all sorts of different medication management. I mean, all these things.
Multi-layered, multi-layered day treatment, Uhhuh treatment where kids go to school all day long with us to do, and dagummit, man, what are we getting Draconian now? Yeah. Well, we don’t even have this stuff now.
[00:11:10] John-Nelson Pope: 30 years later. It’s, there’s not a, there’s nothing Yeah. It seems
[00:11:14] Chris Gazdik: like, and, and insurance companies.
need regulated to be forced to pay. Mm-hmm. , I’m gonna get really ticked off if I keep on with this, so I’m gonna get, I
[00:11:25] Victoria Pendergrass: say off need. Take a deep
[00:11:27] John-Nelson Pope: breath. This you gonna, you’re gonna hear something from your insurance.
[00:11:29] Chris Gazdik: You know what, then call me because we can chat. I, I just, I, I am so appalled that I, I have a, a friend that has a 16 year old that needs care and literally can’t get it.
I mean, I
[00:11:41] Victoria Pendergrass: told you about this morning about the student that I had at the elementary school that I was at who desperately, desperately, desperately needed day treatment because intensive in-home would not have done anything for this child. And desperately needed day treatment. And because day treatment is so foc, he Medicaid, heavily Medicaid.
Yeah. Funded and focused. Like really you need to have Medicaid to go to day treatment.
[00:12:05] Chris Gazdik: If you have Medicaid, you can get all sorts of treatment. Actually, I will point
[00:12:08] Victoria Pendergrass: that out. And so, but this student did not have Medicaid. I’m, I can’t even remember what insurance her dad was on at the time. You had a
[00:12:15] Chris Gazdik: disadvantage if you had insurance and like, I’d agree about that.
Yeah.
[00:12:20] Victoria Pendergrass: And you’re in a disadvantage, she admit. Yeah. So therefore she, I was not able, I mean, there was not even a point of me even submitting a referral to day treatment for this kid because like, she wouldn’t have been accepted and then if she would’ve, it would’ve been hundreds and hundreds of dollars a day out of pocket if you wanted to pay for that.
[00:12:39] Chris Gazdik: Right. . So, and John, I’ll go a little further with you in the sense too that, you know, there is a new. That has developed in the last 10 to 15 years that I suspect, and I’ll make the, the bold approach and already picked, ticked off and fired up. Man, you know why? There’s not any psychiatrists available?
I’ll tell you why. I think there’s not many psychiatry services available because they don’t wanna deal with insurance companies, and therefore they’ve done cash practices pretty much across the dag on board. And you have psychiatry that sees somebody for 15 to 20 minutes in an initial interview, and then you have 10, 5, 10 minute med checks thereafter.
And that’s the service system that you have. Exactly. Unfortunately. And they,
[00:13:20] John-Nelson Pope: and, and they don’t really. Do I, in my case, in my understanding, an adequate case of diagnosis because you only got ’em for 15 minutes. Don’t 15, 20 minutes. What are you gonna do? You don’t do an interview. You don’t, basically, yeah.
[00:13:35] Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, they’re not doing an assessment like how we do the fir take an hour plus long time to like, talk to somebody, figure out what
[00:13:43] Chris Gazdik: they’re, you know what’s going, so I’m gonna calm myself down, but I think that I’m gonna end this little depressing segment of current event with the, the inadequate care for adolescent units and, and say we’re, we’re going to have to come together as a community here.
And I don’t know sorry for the, around the world listeners. Honestly, I don’t know what system delivery really looks like in other countries. I’m gonna say I’m completely ignorant and I’m sorry for that. I just don’t talk to enough people in other countries yet. But I would love to hear from you.
I was gonna say, if they,
[00:14:15] Victoria Pendergrass: yes, I would love to hear about it. Just comment and tell us what, what mental health practices are like where you’re
[00:14:20] Chris Gazdik: from. Because, because here in the States, we are going to have to get serious about funding What. Evidently well-known to be a mental health crisis and I in grants and, and services and regulating insurance companies for these payments.
And I think there’s a real
[00:14:38] John-Nelson Pope: lack of training of medical personnel. I mean, the, the primary care, you, you said something, it was like 70%, did you say a 70%? 70%
[00:14:48] Chris Gazdik: visits. Visits have, have mental health component.
[00:14:51] John-Nelson Pope: How much per training, how much training, much do not much physicians have and PAs and nurse practitioners have in mental health.
Well, I know it’s very little. I’ve trained them very little. You’ve trained them and you’re very good at training. Yeah.
[00:15:07] Chris Gazdik: Thank you.
[00:15:08] John-Nelson Pope: And now that’s, but that’s not a major part of a rotation.
[00:15:12] Victoria Pendergrass: No, and I mean, I come from a company who is very prominent in doing integrative healthcare, where they’re integrating behavioral health providers in with the.
Medical. Yes. So I think in that aspect with the company that I come from, I do feel like they have slightly, I mean obviously there is obviously more training that can always be done, but I do feel like they have somewhat more of an understanding because they’re working more day-to-day with the behavioral health
[00:15:41] Chris Gazdik: providers.
Thank for making me happier, Victoria.
[00:15:43] Victoria Pendergrass: But you’re right. At the same time though, that’s not, I’m, I, that’s one company. It’s, it’s beginning and
[00:15:49] Chris Gazdik: so, well, it’s, it’s not one company across
[00:15:52] Victoria Pendergrass: the, and I do know other companies are doing it, but. I mean, I guess there is some hope in that aspect, but it does all come down to like what happens when the behavioral health provider is, is out for the day.
Well, what happens?
[00:16:04] Chris Gazdik: But furthermore, bring us back if I can, to the issue of inpatient care. We are integrating behavioral health professionals in medical groups around the country. Mm-hmm. at a pretty quick rate, which is really, really, really cool. I want. Highlight that, but that does absolutely nothing for the current event.
It does. Where people are needing inpatient high acuity care for people that are struggling. Because it doesn’t
[00:16:32] Victoria Pendergrass: matter if the doctor is trained, if there’s nowhere for them to send, they can’t. A patient that needs like there’s no
[00:16:39] Chris Gazdik: referral make, I don’t care. Then let’s get happier. It’s the holiday season.
Come on, let’s get happier. Let’s get happier. Sing us something, John, do something. .
[00:16:49] John-Nelson Pope: I’m dreaming of a white
[00:16:51] Chris Gazdik: Christmas. Love it. Thank
[00:16:53] John-Nelson Pope: you man. I understand it may
[00:16:55] Chris Gazdik: snow, we might get snow. I heard that. Yeah.
[00:16:59] John-Nelson Pope: On Thursday, next week.
[00:17:01] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. So what does failure mean to you and in your mind as a result of failure?
Really? What is next? Like what comes of all of this? So the, the definition of failure I, I think is simple, obviously, right? The lack of success. Okay, great. I like this one a lot better. The admission of expected or required action, and also the lack of success or inability to meet an expectation. These are, these are kind of pieces when you start thinking about this topic that we have that people, God, I think it’s a terrifying thing that people struggle with.
Like, you know, the fear of failure. John, what did you say when I told you this was the, the topic?
[00:17:40] John-Nelson Pope: I don’t know. I said I was an expert at it. Yes. I’ve done it many times. .
[00:17:45] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Because we’ve all experienced massive amounts. I’m good at it. Of this. That’s what that was what you said. I’m good at it. Right.
We, we, we, and you better get good at it because you’re gonna experience it all the time. And I think that this is a topic that I, I hope people tune into because it, it doesn’t have to determine your path, but unfortunately I think it determines many people’s path before they even choose a path. Yeah, think about that.
I think failure, that’s a quote, Neil. I think failure, unfortunately chooses people’s paths before they choose a path themselves. Yeah, yeah. And that’s bad. Like we want quotes to be positive, don’t we, Neil? But I don’t know if that’s a positive thing. We can, maybe we shouldn’t write that one one down, , you know, but, but, but think about what that’s saying.
Yeah. Because do you want to subscribe to that or, you know, what do you do? What do you do instead? Let me open up to your thoughts, guys both of you. What, what you’re, what you’re thinking with this idea of failure in this topic and how should we tackle it? I mean, I
[00:18:50] Victoria Pendergrass: think in order to have some, some sort of success, failure is needed.
I feel like failure is how you learn. Failure can be how you navigate things. I don’t know. I’m
[00:19:03] Chris Gazdik: making off with Yeah. Off the cuff. Yeah. ,
[00:19:08] John-Nelson Pope: we were taught and my parents were very good. They actually we’re, I’m from southeastern Kentucky originally, and so we kind of got this idea. If we didn’t have bad luck, we’d have no luck at all.
That’s sort of a, of a, of a mindset. Unfortunately, fatalistic, but failure is something that we were taught well, that wasn’t an option. Basically you had to be perfect. And the problem with that is if you have to be perfect, you’re afraid to venture forth. Yeah. And to, to think that somehow you, there was a sense of morality that was put in, into failure that somehow with that, Perfection.
You you somehow let other people down. You let yourself down, you let your family down, you let your friends down. Yeah. And so you’re very hyper critical. And I think a lot of people deal with that or used to, I don’t know if they do now, how much I definitely
[00:20:11] Chris Gazdik: see you gets grown around the world today.
Uhhuh. . Yeah. People are throwing their opinions around. People are speaking through a screen. Uhhuh, . People are directly criticizing your view. Oh. How you look, how you look, how you sound. If
[00:20:28] John-Nelson Pope: you’re, you know, you gotta be, can’t be skinny enough.
[00:20:32] Chris Gazdik: It’s, it’s, it’s incessantly. Like we have have we turned into like, children on the playground in the adult world?
Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Nowadays. Yeah. I’m, I’m listening. Well, people,
[00:20:45] John-Nelson Pope: people can’t. , they won’t responsible people won’t run for office because they’re afraid that they’re going to be destroyed. Yeah. Because they might have had a problem. They might have had a failure. Right. Or something in the past. In the past.
And they feel like they, they don’t want put their family through that they don’t want, you know, it’s
[00:21:06] Chris Gazdik: interesting that you say that. My mind immediately goes to Herschel Walker who just ran mm-hmm. and he don’t know how much we, we, we didn’t talk a lot about dissociative identity disorder, which is a, a thing d i d that he’s well known in the public’s eye for having gone through and lived through, brave enough to talk about it.
The courage that he showed, to be honest about that. And then you’re right, I’ll throw props to, to run in office, you know, given that history mm-hmm. , and it’s been 20, 25 years, you know, in, in his, in his wake. But that stuff still is, you know, I mean, that comes with you and you
[00:21:38] John-Nelson Pope: may not agree with him mm-hmm.
politically or anything of that sort that, and that’s understandable, but. Pal on Do a Dog Pal on him, because he actually was honest enough to talk about his
[00:21:51] Chris Gazdik: failure. Right, right. Listen to these quotes. I I, there’s a lot of things out there that you’ll hear in motivational circles, and I thought the, some of these were pretty cool.
And there’s a, there’s a, a stamp we have, or what do you call it, A linky, a link that you can go and check these out. 30 powerful quotes on failure. This was from Forbes, so failure isn’t fatal, but failure to change might be John Wooden. I’m not sure who he is, but I suck at that game. Huh. Basketball coach UCLA Elliott.
Basketball coach. Cool. Yeah. Success is most often achieved by those who don’t. That failure is inevitable. I love that one. Coco Chanel. Okay, , only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly. Our good buddy Robert F. Kennedy, giving up is the only sure way to fail. Gina. Show Walter. And when you take risks, you learn that there will be times when you succeed and there will be times when you fail.
But both are equally important. Ellen missed Dees. I’ve not failed. I’ve just found 8,000 ways that won’t work. I love Tom es
[00:23:01] Victoria Pendergrass: Madison. I love that quote from Mom Tyson. I had that up for my kids at school as part of like resiliency. Oh yeah. Is
[00:23:08] Chris Gazdik: that right? Yeah. Pain is temporary. Quitting lasts forever.
Lance Armstrong and my favorite guy with two quotes. I gave him two. Mr. Winston Church and I’ll give you a third one. You gave a third one? Mm-hmm. . Okay. Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts. And my favorite Winston Churchill. Is, if you’re going through hell, then keep going.
Right? What’s the third?
[00:23:35] John-Nelson Pope: Well, the third is a, is an anecdotal, but he was speaking before a boy school and it’s something like Eaton or something like that. And he was the prime minister and it was during the blitz. And he, he got up and he spoke to the, to the, to the students and all he said was never get up, got sat back down, waited a a second, got back up and said Never give up.
Waited a couple of seconds, got back down, did that a third time, never give up. And that was the whole point. You don’t give up. Failure is written in the cake and you’ve just got to be able to make the best of
[00:24:21] Chris Gazdik: it. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. Wanna, wanna shout out to some of our Facebook people here? We got Barbara, good to see you again, ma’am.
What a topic says Cas and Eric, nice to see you, man. I’m gonna give a shout out to shout out. He’s my brother-in-law actually. He says maybe he didn’t shoot himself. That there is a lot more to this story, which is interesting. We’ll, we’ll see. I guess it is very fresh. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And there’s always a thank you
[00:24:45] Victoria Pendergrass: very much.
Yeah. I’m not claim, I’m not claiming to know all the information, that’s just the information that has been put out so far. I mean, but it’s a lead. Nevertheless, it is a heartbreaking, I mean, it does bring a po a, a bow, a issue
[00:24:57] John-Nelson Pope: of. What’s the leading cause of death of, of many young men. Mm-hmm.
[00:25:02] Chris Gazdik: particularly well, yes. Suicide. And, and if those facts aren’t, aren’t together yet, or out, then we do know that the suicide rates have gone up. Anxiety’s gone up, depression’s gone up. So well, they say
[00:25:13] Victoria Pendergrass: gone last I’ve heard I could be incorrect, is that women attempt more, but men are more successful because they use things like firearms.
Oh. Can I catch you in something real time? Yeah. Feel free to correct me if I’m
[00:25:26] Chris Gazdik: wrong. I, I really do wanna correct me in something if I can. And it’s, it’s something that this is a cool moment, Victoria, that I think you’ll take with you for a long time. Okay. And it’s not a criticism, it’s just helping me.
[00:25:36] Victoria Pendergrass: No, I mean, yeah. Make sure I have the
[00:25:37] Chris Gazdik: recur information. Go for it. I said exactly the same words. Yeah. And literally a student that I was working with stopped me like, I just did you. And she said, okay, well, Chris, listen, you know sh it’s known that my dad was a victim of with suicide and Yeah. And struggled with that.
And she, and he’s, she said, you don’t, you don’t want to say that it was a successful suicide attempt. Okay. Instead, it’s, it’s really that a suc that a suicide attempt was completed was
[00:26:04] Victoria Pendergrass: completed. Okay. Changing that
[00:26:05] Chris Gazdik: terminology. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. It, it, it, it, it caught me in my, in my heart when she, she, she helped me understand that.
No, I think that’s great. Yeah. Because we, we, we, I
[00:26:16] Victoria Pendergrass: mean, not great, but I think that’s, that you make a valid point. Yeah. And very important. It’s very important. I’ll definitely take that with me is
[00:26:22] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. I’ll, I’ll do that for the rest of my career. What a gift she gave me. Yeah. Right. To, to, to know. And I’m, I’m wondering
[00:26:29] John-Nelson Pope: too and.
and I agree with you about that there’s more attempts with females and with males that they complete it right. Uh, More often. But I think a lot of times males don’t reach out for help. That is a
[00:26:45] Victoria Pendergrass: very another
[00:26:45] John-Nelson Pope: aspect too. They, they stuff it. And in my own, my old school that I taught at University of Louisiana Monroe, we had a suicide cluster.
and they were all young males. And then you started seeing it spread to adults. Adult males. Yeah. Yeah. And and at the business school,
[00:27:06] Chris Gazdik: I think it, so here’s, here’s the thing. Let me, let me get us back on this track with this. These, these, I was gonna say, I think it’s,
[00:27:11] Victoria Pendergrass: I, well, I think I was gonna tie that like the whole, the whole thing back into failure is that I think a lot of times it has to do with the fact that the reason maybe that men don’t speak or are failure don’t be speak up as much is because it’ll be seen as a failure or that they failed at life, or that they, you know, failed at whatever it may be.
And so then therefore they, they choose not to reach out or whatever the case may be. I think it do, it can, I think it can mean be circled back and connected back to. the topic of failure.
[00:27:45] Chris Gazdik: It it, it, it does, it abs It absolutely is. And I, and I, so I listen, I love these motivational programs, thoughts, quotes, you know, philosophies.
I, I think they’re great. I, I used them as an uplifting thing. Like literally when I was reading them, it brought me out of the doldrums that I was in talking about our current event that we talked about. Mm-hmm. . Right? So they are wonderful. But the, the, the problem that I have is, is that I, I feel like you can very much miss a point that is, that is, I’m curious what you’re, you would nod about John, you, you’re nodding.
[00:28:23] John-Nelson Pope: Well, I was wondering where you were going. Because I was thinking I, my mind went to the idea of the creatives of, of the. The artists that commit suicide or the Yeah. And a lot of times they are not considered successes and they think of themselves as failures. I’m thinking of Van Gogh. I’m thinking of Sylvia Plath who commit suicide.
Or, or these, how I would complete it. The, the suicide, right? Yeah. And they, they go to their graves feeling like they don’t failures failures, because they’re told that, because they do something very different.
[00:29:05] Chris Gazdik: So my question is, what is missing when we have such struggle that is part of the human emotional experience that we’re trying to figure out together.
See how, yeah, I, I think. Very poignantly. We’re figuring this out together, guys, and, and the thing is, these motivational quotes are awesome but lacking because how do we get from where I’m at now feeling keyword, what I am feeling, and then. To where you’re talking about keep on going through hell or any one of these other quotes and phrases and philosophies that motivational people will, will provide.
There’s a great gap between the two. Mm-hmm. ,
[00:29:51] John-Nelson Pope: well, you think of Lincoln and, and Winston Churchill they both had, they had the, they were dogged by blackness. They were hard. They was And just depression. Yeah. And, and, and difficulty. And yet there was something in them that kept them motivated to go on.
And so if they could give quotes Yeah. That are good. But to just to spout it off, like, and I’m gonna be critical. Anthony Robbins, for example. Yeah. Does the you or we have the, the Lakewood Ranch guy who’s Lakewood Ranch guy? No, not Lakewood church that’s in Houston, Texas. Your, your best now and all that is very positive.
[00:30:35] Chris Gazdik: Anyway, I don’t wanna try join . Yeah. I’m not sure either. Yeah.
[00:30:38] John-Nelson Pope: But, but anyway, that, that idea just, you know, if you just think positively, everything’s gonna work out. Yeah. And make us a quick
[00:30:48] Chris Gazdik: solution. And, and ironically we’re gonna talk today throughout, like what do you do? You’ll hear a lot of the same things.
Which is funny that you said that cuz you know where my mind went. One of the most influential books I read as a child, which was Norman Vincent’s, pales the Power of Positive, positive Thinking. Right. Very influential in my youth and, and probably directed me somewhat to this whole field, to be honest with you.
Uhhuh. . I don’t want to be too dramatic, but it was that, that powerful to me. But,
[00:31:17] John-Nelson Pope: but there was some depth to that. I Oh, yeah. I, I had met him. Did you? Yeah. And he had a very difficult, his early years in the thirties were very difficult. Right. And so he was able to, so he applied that there, so there was some context.
It just, okay.
[00:31:40] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. He was speaking from, he’s
[00:31:42] John-Nelson Pope: speaking genuine, from genuine experience. And I think that’s the difference when people with some of these aphorisms or what. Some of ’em do have depth. Yeah. Because it comes from, like Edison, he was bullied and beaten, you know, and he was deaf and thrown off a train and just horrible things when he was starting out and to become an inventor and something within him motivated him to keep going.
Powerful
[00:32:11] Chris Gazdik: power. Yeah. Yeah. So we wanna go between the gap a little bit on what gets us to the point where these people that really lived those experiences have found a way. What did they find? Right, right. How did they get there? What do we do to fight through this horrible fear, mongered experience of failure?
I what, what came to me is, is really. , you know, expressing and understanding and beginning to get in touch with what it means to you. It’s the therapy question in me, Victoria, right? Yeah. What does failure mean to you if you ask yourself that question? And I want to give everybody that hears this episode a challenge to ask yourself that question and just ponder it for a little bit, you know, and see what you come up with.
Because what you message to yourself determines a lot of how you’re experiencing, you know, this 10,000 ways to not accomplish what Thomas Edison, you know, is trying for, and it can. Victoria, I would submit to you that, that the way that you identify what failure means to you determines if you develop internal resiliency or mm-hmm.
internal self. . Terror, destruction, and destruction. Yeah. Right,
[00:33:31] Victoria Pendergrass: right. No, I totally agree with you. I mean, I think you know, the ability to create some self resiliency within, or resiliency within yourself is do or die sometimes, and whether or not you thrive or off of failure, or if you let failure snake, you succumb to you.
Yeah.
[00:33:53] John-Nelson Pope: What I’m hearing from you is that’s a good counseling uncle , but we’re in the wellness, right. Part of counseling. So we, we look less at, more in terms of as important as diagnosis is, we talk about wholeness and wellness. Right. And part of that will of wellness is that emotional developing resiliency.
Mm-hmm. and that psychological toughness and also that emotional toughness and yet keeping one’s empathy and self-care. Right. That’s what you’re talking about. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:34:27] Victoria Pendergrass: But I, and I think it’s also something that can be, I think it’s something that personally can be taught. Oh, we’re learning like with clients and stuff.
Absolutely. Yeah. I think that that is, if that is the goal that someone would like to achieve long-term or whatever, like, I think that that is very doable within therapy. See Victoria in therapy. Yeah. Come see me in therapy. Right? For real. Like, this is so, but yeah, I mean, that’s what I mean, but. Then if you let yourself get bogged down with the failure, that’s where
[00:34:56] John-Nelson Pope: now if you wanna find out about purpose, you talk to me.
Yes. Go find John. John for existentialism.
[00:35:01] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Oh, dear. I don’t know what I got. I, I just, I, I got, I gotta, I gotta come back to it. So I, I, I thought about this. What does failure mean to you? And if you think about what the goal was that you were going after, right? And you ask yourself what that goal means to you mm-hmm.
you’ll track back to what you’re experiencing with that failure. And more on that. And a little bit is, is some foreshadowing, but to add to the challenge of asking yourself, what does failure mean to you? A question to ask that is helpful along those lines, I think is, what am I really wanting here anyways, right?
Mm-hmm. like an example of failed marriage. Okay. Or failing on a weight goal. , right. Or failing on a long-term bike ride E. Each one of those things are different goals that you might interpret failure about. Mm-hmm. , and it is a lack of success. It didn’t meet expectations. They, they can argue very easily be called failures.
I have no problem with identifying that things are failures, but, but what each one of those things different means to you. Obviously, you know, a weight goal means health or appearance or attractiveness. Well, so what does failure mean to you in that is gonna be very different than a failed bike ride. You know, where it, it’s, it’s more your health or more an accomplishment in a, or endurance or endurance or failed marriage is Right.
You see how that moves around for you. Mm-hmm. . So when you’re really dealing with this failure that has occurred, look at what the goal was. What are you really wanting here? And then circle back to how do you determine, do I accept that failure or do I get back on the bike? Yeah. Right? Yeah. Because you can can still go after what you wanted in
[00:36:43] John-Nelson Pope: first place.
The bike is a wonderful example because if you stop at the first
[00:36:50] Chris Gazdik: time,
[00:36:52] John-Nelson Pope: you, everybody falls off the bike. Yes, everybody. And when you get those real. The, for real, the training wheels. Once those training wheels go off, you’re still gonna, you’re gonna fall. And one of the things is, is are you someone that will get back and get back on that bike again?
Mm-hmm. and keep
[00:37:13] Chris Gazdik: doing it. And you know, there’s some people that have never ridden a bike. John
[00:37:16] John-Nelson Pope: Uhhuh, , because of the fear Yep. Of failing.
[00:37:19] Chris Gazdik: I don’t wanna learn. I’m afraid to fall off. Yep. Mm-hmm. , you know, and, you know, so you really do help. And, and oftentimes, by the way, this is unplanned, but you know, with this metaphor, we could just go on and on with it.
You don’t, you need encouragement. Mm-hmm. , right? Mm-hmm. , how important is encouragement in your goals? Right? Yeah. Don’t, don’t you need some, some lessons? Don’t you need some support? You know, I taught my kids how to ride a bike, and there were things that we did to make it safe, but to encourage them and to also let them fail.
I, I didn’t, I didn’t prevent them from falling. They had to fall. There’s a lot of things there. Oh, yeah. , there’s a
[00:37:57] John-Nelson Pope: lot of things I wiped out a lot of times. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And ended up with scrapes,
[00:38:02] Chris Gazdik: Going right here into my forehead. But, but
[00:38:05] Victoria Pendergrass: the important thing is, is that you got back up and that you continued to try again.
Yeah.
[00:38:11] Chris Gazdik: And how do we get to that? So let’s, let’s go further with that and before we start to get. Geared into like more of the, you know, dealing with your feelings of it, which again is foreshadowing. I think that we really need to kind of take a pause and recognize that there’s also a very important task when you, you know, experience a failed marriage or when you experience a failed goal for health, or you experience a failed financial venture.
Right. There’s a loss here. Yeah. That, that, and, and if you don’t tend to the grieving of a loss, you, you, can you not find yourself in a stuck space mm-hmm. . Yeah. Possible. Yeah. So we think of grieving when somebody dies, but I know, we know there’s a whole lot more that goes into that. Yeah. So run just for a little bit, either of you on, on Grief and Lawson, why that’s important and just like how we do that for quick segment.
Okay. On very quickly component. ,
[00:39:16] John-Nelson Pope: there’s grieving and I’m, I’m thinking in terms of men, ob obviously, cuz I’m man you dude, I’m my sex, right? But if you’ve ever lost a job and that your whole sense of your wellbeing and your image and your success is called up in the into that, and you are asked, somebody comes up to you and says, John, you’re not quite making it and cutting it, and it’s time for you to think about moving on.
Devastating. Just devastating gut rendering because you feel like you’ve let, you’ve let people down. You’re embarrassed. Didn’t do my
[00:40:00] Chris Gazdik: primary
[00:40:00] John-Nelson Pope: function, didn’t do my primary function of which I was built for. Right. The way I was created to be. And let’s say you do it in, in something, because I’ve had that happen to me in, in the ministry years ago.
And it was very difficult. And there was some hostility that was going on with, with the with the session, the church session because they had to find and identify a bad guy. And so this is why this is not working at the church, therefore it’s time to move on. Yep. Yeah.
[00:40:35] Chris Gazdik: Let me take another gen.
Very em, I’m do too. Yeah. But I know, you know, Victoria, you can speak to being a new mom. How many, how many women struggle with the failure of, you know, birthing. Oh, when you got, when you have a, a miscarriage and yeah. And the powerful experiences of a fundamental thing that, and this is horrible women, I wanna say before I even utter this out loud, like, this is not your fault.
You are not doing a poor job with your health and causing this to occur. And I know that’s a common belief.
[00:41:06] Victoria Pendergrass: Ironically, I did think about motherhood as you were talking about that is like when someone’s, like, when someone thi feels like that their sole purpose in life is to be a mom. Yeah. And to be a mother.
And for some reason either that’s not able to happen either before birth or even in things that happen after birth that gets taken away. Like that is just utter. failure. Correct. Like or considered other failure and like Yeah. To recover from that takes a lot. Yeah.
[00:41:41] John-Nelson Pope: But it is mis important. Miscarriage
is stillborn children and tough issue.
Tough issues. The mom. And, and the father, a lot of times the, there you have and they say, well and chaplain, I need you to baptize my baby because I, I worried, oh dear, that would be tough going into heaven. Mm-hmm. . And you get this mass of somebody that’s got skin slip and just, just falling apart. And you see the mother, you give the, the, the, the nurse gives the child to the mother to hold even though the, the baby is, is, is a.
And there was this sense of grief and. wonder And love that, that that’s there. And so for a mother to go through that or a father to go through that as well. Right. It’s just, it,
[00:42:28] Chris Gazdik: it’s heartbreaking. Yeah. And it’s one of toughest things I went through
[00:42:31] John-Nelson Pope: personally. Yeah. Yeah. And if somebody says, well, you can always have another, I mean that.
God, I can’t believe that. Yeah.
[00:42:37] Chris Gazdik: People, so before you go to the I can have another, or when you have the job lost, John, you’re talking about we have got to prioritize a grieving process. Yeah. Yeah. Just like someone died when you lost your job or whatnot. And, and this grieving process, it, it is, it’s important because ultimately one of the ways to deal with a failure of what you had, the reason why I thought about grief as a piece of this when I was preparing our process tonight is because think about it.
If, if you don’t grieve, there’s a cost in that. and you don’t come to a place of ultimately where we’re trying to get to with this loss. Mm-hmm. , which is acceptance. Yeah. Right. You don’t accept that the baby died. You don’t accept that the job went away. You don’t accept that the weight didn’t come off.
You don’t accept the whatever it is that you’re your Ringo,
[00:43:32] Victoria Pendergrass: and then that’s, but then that’s how you move forward is af gaining that. Accept acceptance. Accept, yes. Then you’re able to move on forward from that quote unquote failure. See how this works, and then you’re able to tend to other things. ,
[00:43:48] John-Nelson Pope: my failure was such an Yes.
It was about me. That was, that’s why I said John. Yeah, I heard
[00:43:54] Chris Gazdik: you.
[00:43:56] John-Nelson Pope: I went on and got my PhD in doctor in counseling. Wow. Counselor. Yeah. That’s why I went, I went back to school and doors opened, right? Yeah. But part of that was to go through two or three months, even six months of, of, of grieving and going through those stages, which don’t necessarily happen sequentially, but happen all at once or differently or whatever.
But going and then being able to say, okay, I’m gonna put one foot forward and I’m gonna try something new.
[00:44:31] Chris Gazdik: You have to have permission in your mind in order to deal with failure by doing a grieving experience. Mm-hmm. , then you arrive at acceptance of the loss. Then you can get into what further is going on with your emotional.
Self. So let’s move to, you know, what then happens. So you get to a place of acceptance like you did, John, and this is where e e even, even without talking further about some of what we’re gonna discuss with that, look at what happened in just dealing with the grief and loss in getting your doctorate degree and becoming the, the professor that we all know and love today.
The Pope, the Pope, the professor and Maryanne. Right? So, yeah, and, and, and, and all the students that I, I could just go on. I mean, it’s an awesome story. Thank you so much for sharing that because, you know, we all have those marked moments in our life that, that, that, that propel us into what it is that we’ve ultimately achieved success with.
It
[00:45:33] John-Nelson Pope: broke my heart, but it made my heart stronger. My heart may break, and then it made me a stronger person. It made me a better
[00:45:41] Chris Gazdik: person. You know, don’t we grow stronger from a broken spot? The metaphor, but also the truth of a broken bone. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Is the strongest part of that bone when it heals.
Exactly. If you’re struggling with a marriage out there and feel broken, if you’re struggling with bankruptcy out there and feeling broken, if you’re struggling with a lost child, whatever it might be, that is deemed failure. There’s a lot of hope in what it is that we’re talking about here. So let’s deal with these feelings and thrust forward towards your inevitable success.
Yes. Right? So when you deal with the grief, it’s part of the same thing. But you know, I know the therapist in me, again, a segment here of tending to the feelings of the matter. I mean, you know, can we do this without dealing with the emotional content that’s in, in the air? No , right? The
[00:46:40] Victoria Pendergrass: answer is no.
[00:46:42] Chris Gazdik: And, and this goes, thank you for that, Victoria.
Right? And this goes directly from the, the, the gap, right? So I’ve told you foreshadowed before, you hear these awesome quotes. You hear these amazing people doing amazing things, saying amazing stuff, and it’s kind of like, okay, well I feel like shit. So where am I at and how do I get.there . Well, the way that you get there is by dealing with the emotional content that’s in place.
I’m sorry for anybody who wants to avoid that. You’re really gonna have to go through that. There is no way to avoid that. Is that a fair set of statement? Yes,
[00:47:12] Victoria Pendergrass: aka a, you have to feel your
[00:47:14] Chris Gazdik: feelings, right. Don’t think there’s any way around it. Yeah.
[00:47:19] Victoria Pendergrass: And if you, I feel like I, I feel like a broken record sometimes in session saying that
Yeah. Like you have to feel your feelings. I mean, and we’ve talked about before how like, you know, your feelings aren’t always valid and true, and sometimes your feelings can lie to you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But still, you still have to then identify what you’re actually feeling and feel those things so that you.
Move forward.
[00:47:46] Chris Gazdik: And I think a big part of that is what are you feeling?
[00:47:50] Victoria Pendergrass: Identifying feelings. Yes. Right.
[00:47:52] Chris Gazdik: That, that’s where we start. So when you go through a loss, I really think that one of the important things is to identify, wait a minute, what really is going on for me? You know, we had a conversation, Victoria to mm-hmm.
To blow up the feeling chart. You remember that? Mm-hmm. . I know, I know. Eye
[00:48:07] Victoria Pendergrass: roll. I’m rolling my eyes so significantly
[00:48:11] Chris Gazdik: right now. It’s a thing though because people are stuck on happy, mad glad or sad. But what you can do is you can talk with people and you can make connections to open up and figure out.
They will objectively be able to feed this back to you cuz listen to some of these things I was thinking about. What is it that I’m feeling when, when you’re dealing with, with losses and, and actually I’m out of order. . I think the, because Hold on a minute. Let me get, let me get geared in no, I’m, I am right.
. Yeah. I just got goofed up. Sorry. De developing the idea of, of understanding what it is that you’re feeling when you go through a loss, you may feel isolated. Mm-hmm. , you didn’t realize it, but somebody can talk to you and feel like geared into seeing, Hey, you’ve really shut down since this happened.
And, and you’re, you’re alone. You’re feeling isolated. You reach out. You can help, people can help see that with you, a heart crush. Right. When you, when you, when you experience again, the grief and the loss, you know, in a, in a relationship where you got stood up or you know, turned away or it got shut down mm-hmm.
you’re, you’re, you’re gonna be dealing with a level of disappointment. Business owners out there. Mm-hmm. , you will have failures. all over the place when we start businesses. Well, 70 or
[00:49:30] John-Nelson Pope: 80% of all businesses fail. Fail. Right. And what’s the difference? An entrepreneur succeeds finally after keep doing it over and over and over again, trying different things.
I can speak
[00:49:41] Chris Gazdik: to that impersonal experience. Right? The, the, the, the disappointment though is overwhelming. And you have to fight through that valley of despair that comes into the air when you go through a failure and reach to the other side of dealing through that disappointment. It might be, it might be just hurt feelings, right?
It could be just feeling criticized. We talked about that before. Mm-hmm. . And, and part of the goal is, is developing, you know, a, a sense of.grace For yourself. A, a sense of belonging, you know, getting back in touch with self, self-acceptance, self-acceptance, positive self-talk. There’s, there’s a lot of these things that fly around.
Basically, if you’ve listened to these shows, you hear about how to handle your emotions and you want to employ that. Mm-hmm. directly after you grieve the loss. When a failure occurs. Right? Right. Powerful process that oftentimes is unfortunately avoided. Right. And let’s go to the next step with this. A lot of times it’s avoided because of the fear,
[00:50:55] Victoria Pendergrass: the big word, right?
Fear, the big F word or another. I guess the other big F word. Failure and fear.
[00:51:03] Chris Gazdik: It’s crushing. Failure and fear go directly, hand to hand to hand together. Like
[00:51:08] Victoria Pendergrass: mentioned in episode 72,
[00:51:10] Chris Gazdik: and that’s where we talked about that you were in, but not us. . Yeah. Yeah. Craig. Craig and I did. Thank you. You know, check that out.
Episode 72 is Fear Your Friend or Foe. And Craig and I had an awesome conversation about that in episode 72, because we don’t have enough time to spend on it today, but Right. If, if you don’t deal with that fear, it is gonna become your foe. I, I think we can just land there and, and, and say that, and, and, and again, this is my, my favorite quote I wanted to put at this point.
You know, if you’re going through hell, you, and you’re feeling all these things, what is that? Hell, despair, loss, hurt, criticized, overwhelmed, you know, fearful that I, if you just keep going. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. That Mr. And Mrs. Young man graduating from, from school and going to college and struggling your freshman year.
Get, if you just keep going. and, and, and take the next small step. Then you do get through. I’m trying
[00:52:13] John-Nelson Pope: to imagine you as a
[00:52:14] Chris Gazdik: freshman. Oh dear God. It was a rough year. Yeah, well, he showed me a
[00:52:17] Victoria Pendergrass: picture from his early days. I did actually, his career today, he is like a completely different person, . So I just imagine like a younger version of that.
he’ll have to show you one day. Oh,
[00:52:28] Chris Gazdik: I’d love to see that. It, it, yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s, I would, oh, I would get
[00:52:33] John-Nelson Pope: homesick.
[00:52:34] Chris Gazdik: And I Well, that’s what I struggle with, John. You’re absolutely right. So, my first year of freshman year, it was one of the two times that I really experienced home sickness, and it crushed me.
I really was on the floor and, and, and had just a super hard time. And I’ll never forget talking to my mom on the phone, you know, kind of wailing and bawling, just tearful, you know, and, and, and exclaiming, what am I gonna do? And it was some, I lost my scholarship, I think, when my grades weren’t great and it’s, well, I guess I could sell my car.
And I remember just expounding that and it was like, oh, I was a mess. Yeah. And I had to deal with that grieving of losing my scholar. and getting back on track with what I knew I could do, because my sophomore year in high school, I, I, I, I have a whole story about the honors biology class that I took and I got an a and I was able to figure out, holy crap, like I can do good in academics, and I got better and better and better.
But my freshman year I fell and fail and then I was able to kind of recover that and, hey, I graduated Magnum cum Lati, eh, you know, good for you. It’s decent success. I had a cousin
[00:53:40] John-Nelson Pope: who said, well, you, you graduated Magnum Kum lousy me.
[00:53:45] Chris Gazdik: Really? He, he was the,
[00:53:47] John-Nelson Pope: he’s the lawyer. But
[00:53:48] Chris Gazdik: yeah, it’s fits perfectly right now.
We get some Facebook help from some. Your attitude after failure will determine a positive or negative life lesson
[00:53:58] John-Nelson Pope: that needs to be put in on that paper. Yeah.
[00:54:00] Chris Gazdik: Who’s I said that? Who’s, that’s wonderful. That’s our Facebook friend. And again, I’ll repeat it. Your attitude after failure will determine a positive or negative life lesson.
It’s an awesome quote. So what are we doing with mindset? Let’s, let’s go a little further beyond the, the fear. And we’re talking about it a little bit. Mm-hmm. . So if you.greive , and then you, you deal with the emotions after you identify ’em, you might need help with that. Mm-hmm. . And then how do we get through to a growth mindset?
I actually asked my kid about this. Mm-hmm. , he’s all into sales right now. He’s all in the motivational thinking. Huh? The one I’ve
[00:54:35] John-Nelson Pope: saw yesterday.
[00:54:37] Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Yeah. You met my son. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you guys think? How do we get a growth mindset .
[00:54:43] Victoria Pendergrass: Mm. How do you develop a growth MI mindset? Mm-hmm.
practice.
[00:54:49] John-Nelson Pope: I think you have to keep it, like you said. Yeah. Keep at it. Because that’s, that’s what I think the world sometimes, and I say world in in a vague way, but in a sense that there’s an expectation for doesn’t want to see you succeed. Mm-hmm. , and there is. There’s that attitude that that can kill your spirit.
And so one thing you have to develop is that sense that, that I’m gonna keep putting one foot ahead of myself. I don’t have to be, I don’t have to be there a hundred percent at the goal. You know, if you’re doing an exercise, if you’re working out at the gym where I see a lot of people fail. I, I guess I kind of stay at the gym too often, but , you said they do, you get up there and they, they wanna put the StairMaster at 20 and they, and they get started.
You’re practically falling off. Practically falling off. You can’t do that. Right. Nobody can do that. You have to start at a,
[00:55:43] Victoria Pendergrass: well, and I use a lot of, cuz I mean obvi, I love growth mindset. Obvi obviously working with kids and stuff. Yeah. But like a lot of it is just utilizing like stop and think. , when it comes to your verbiage and the things that you’re saying
[00:55:57] John-Nelson Pope: you’re helping them already, you’re helping them succeed.
By having that growth mindset, you’re inculcating that into those young minds. Right? Those skulls full of mush, when Yeah. You’re giving them that. Yeah. And so in a way as a, as as people that are educators or counselors, we need to be able to do that on a,
[00:56:19] Chris Gazdik: I guess I do a lot of like demonstration, so it’s not just the persons, let me, you’re right, John.
Let me get back to Victoria to highlight that, because I didn’t think about this. And you’re triggered a thought, right? Yeah. Stop. Is it okay to stop Yeah. For a moment when you fail because you said stop and think, go, go, go
[00:56:36] Victoria Pendergrass: further. Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, I basically, the way I teach Stop and think is that, you know, we ha.
you stop, think. And then the third part of it is act or yeah, follow through or whatever. And I, I’ll encourage people, like, okay. I usually, I ask people like, what do you think of, when you think of the word stop, do you think of like a stop sign? Do you think of like a hand being put up? Do you think of like a red light?
Do you think of like, what, what do you think of
[00:57:01] John-Nelson Pope: you’ve stopped at the name of love? Yeah. . Oh dear goodness, .
[00:57:06] Victoria Pendergrass: And and then I get them to work on imagining that when they encounter a situation or feeling and. . Think about like, yeah, what would happen if I did this? What happen if I did that?
[00:57:20] John-Nelson Pope: So, so you’re talking a little R E B T C B T kind of stuff too, aren’t you?
Do
[00:57:25] Chris Gazdik: you? Yeah. E B t cb, T H I K. And what, okay. and I’m
[00:57:29] Victoria Pendergrass: sorry. That’s right. But I mean that’s kind of how I teach it and like that it’s okay. And a lot of times I encourage people to do it on everyday task just to get their brain like used to like, even though it’s something that you consciously like are unconsciously do naturally to like get yourself to stop and think.
And I think it’s okay to remind people to take that pause. It’s okay that if you drop a glass and it shatters everywhere. , stop. Take a deep breath. It’s okay. Like, you know what to do. Avoid the glass. Go pick up the like broom.
[00:58:03] Chris Gazdik: And I love this. Try again. Love this. Right? Because John, you’re right. We, we do this in cognitive behavioral therapy and reactive attachment theory and R E T R E T is R E B t, rational rationally emotive therapy.
Yes. I was thinking reality therapy. Anyway, but no, it’s reality therapy. It is reality. It’s a form of reality therapy. So there’s, there’s different things that we do because people need help to kind of get through when you’ve been punched in the face. And, and, and that’s what a failure can represent. But you know, you’ll find that a lot of times with motivational people, they don’t talk about the stop.
It’s like, no, get up and go. And that’s, and, and to a certain extent, it’s, it’s important to stop as you just explained. Pause, recover, grieve, identify your emotions. Lemme tell you something, as an entrepreneurial. Person. I find this in these circles a lot where we, we get unrealistic thought process about how people get through.
What did you say, John? One of these people that struggled with the darkness, not Winston, but somebody else. Well, Lincoln, Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln got through. He fought a war, got through this darkness, got through this depression. That didn’t happen by like, boom, just stand up, back up.
Right. It’s, it’s, it’s an unrealistic thing that people struggle trying to think that’s what they’re supposed to do. So stop, think, deal with the emotions. Use that as
[00:59:27] John-Nelson Pope: a gift. Think of if you could re reframe it and think in terms that failure Sure. Is a
[00:59:33] Chris Gazdik: gift. Oh yeah. We know that and people talk about that.
But, but, but before you can get to the gift part, yeah. You have to stop. You have to stop. You have to grieve, you have to identify what it is that you’re feeling with this. Mm-hmm. , what it means to you. And some of the things we’re talking about. so that you can then reengage. Mm-hmm. . It is at times. Is it, is it a true statement to say, when you are dealing with a significant failure in your life that you’re just going to immediately reengage?
[01:00:01] John-Nelson Pope: I think, I think that’s foolishness if you
[01:00:03] Chris Gazdik: do that. Think of, think of a marriage. Yeah. When you, when you’re crushed in, what I think anecdotally is one of the worst spaces you could be in and you think, I just need to get right back on the saddle. Like when I work
[01:00:16] John-Nelson Pope: with couples that and sometimes it’s the man, sometimes it’s a woman and they say they keep doing the same thing over and over and over again and they’ve had all their prior relationships fail.
Well, what they’ve done is they, , they’ve gone back into it with both feet without, and they do it blindly without having to say, okay, I need to grieve for this. I need to think about this. Mm-hmm. , I need to seek.
[01:00:45] Chris Gazdik: Good point. Pardon. That’s a good point.
[01:00:47] John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. To seek the council of wise people, you know.
[01:00:52] Chris Gazdik: So, yes. And the, which as we say a lot of times on the show, when you’re dealing with these types of things, seek the council of wise people. Man. Don’t do these failures alone. I mean, if you’re a business leader, get with other business leaders. If you’re in a church, get with other pastors and talk about what it is that you’re dealing with.
If you’re in an ivory tower and a CEO office, you’re a business leader. You’ve got to be talking about this.
[01:01:15] John-Nelson Pope: Qantas Club, rotary, Toastmasters, all these are I gonna say predicated on Yeah. People failing and learning from their common mistakes.
[01:01:26] Victoria Pendergrass: Yes. I say my dad is in , he actually does that. He does a, he, his, he is in a group of other business leaders who they literally travel from like each city to city.
And they help they basically like help the company get ready for like, when the owner like steps down and like retires and like, okay. Yeah. They’re a transit transition team. Yeah. And so, but they work together. Like, I think he was just in like Kansas City or something like that. Like with another, like with, it was that week and like soon it’ll be his company’s week here, like in the Charlotte area.
And like the team, like the whole group will come in and they’ll like sit down and they’ll kind of evaluate and they’ll like, Prepare for that stuff and like kind of walk through, like how do you transition properly and like what are the best options? Like who is the best person to like,
[01:02:15] Chris Gazdik: it’s, and what’s funny is mental health is right in the middle of that.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. right
[01:02:20] Victoria Pendergrass: in, because I mean, then you have people who’s like, the businesses are pretty normal and things are pretty smooth, but then you have other ones where it’s like a crazy house and there’s like all sorts of drama and stuff going on, but then they help, they use each other to like work through like those problems and those failures and those
[01:02:41] John-Nelson Pope: things.
So it’s like a, it’s like a, I can’t remember the name of it, but a movable
[01:02:45] Chris Gazdik: support group. Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. There’s a mastermind group. Is that what you’re thinking of? No. Because that’s part of what
[01:02:50] Victoria Pendergrass: mastermind groups are. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I guess it’s kind of something like that, but they have their own name to
[01:02:54] Chris Gazdik: it.
We, real quick on developing a health mind growth mindset. r ght I, I was talking about it, like I said with my son. It was cool. And some of this is, he was, he was brainstorming with me. , what is your why? Mm-hmm. , realizing that’s what a lot of people talk about. Why are you doing what you’re doing? Examining your motivation.
Again, similarly, what you know? Why are you doing what you’re doing? Really, why are you doing it? If it’s a good goal, then reconstitute that goal after you’ve had a failure. Defeating the negative self, you know, being mindful of the negative self-talk. Just blows up purposefully. Listen, oh my God, this is a whole show.
I know. But purposefully develop specifically with purpose hopefulness, like focus on the vision that you’re developing, your goal of moving towards, how will I be when I lose these 40 pounds? How will I be when we are reconstituted in this marriage? How will I be when I develop my next company? Right?
Like, those are important, important pieces. So visualizing, visualizing, have the vision. People also ask really like, are you happy? And content? Being mindful about the dangers that contentment create is a cautionary tale because we can get comfortable when you fail and you reconcile and you accept.
And we could do a whole thing on the dangers that getting into a comfortable, safe space can create for you. , well, I’ve just bought new pants so I don’t really need to lose the weight. Mm-hmm. , or I’ve just gotten a, a loan with my debt, so it covered the business expenses. We could just stand Pat, we’ve gotten, we’ve recovered, right?
So be careful about what contentment can do in addition to developing, you know, the growth mindset and the myth of safety. Do you think we’ve helped people develop what I hope is a hopeful way of developing an attitude at really tough times that people are having because we need to taxi in for a landing?
Well,
[01:04:59] Victoria Pendergrass: yeah, and I think, especially now with the holiday season, right? I think this is a good topic to have around that cuz a lot of people do feel like they experience a lot of failure with family and with loved ones and relationships around the holiday season. And the holiday season can bring up a lot of, of what it should
[01:05:19] John-Nelson Pope: be.
Yeah. And you think it’s should be congruent with your childhood memories,
[01:05:24] Victoria Pendergrass: right? Or Yeah. And so, which are not never happening and a lot of things can be triggering. And I mean that I, I had a client tell me today that they don’t really like using the word triggering cuz they feel like it’s overused.
It’s used like a lot, but a lot of things can be sensitive or gaslighting, gaslighting when it comes to the holidays. And so I think it’s important the, as we are in the midst of the holiday season, remembering that like failures happen and. , but we can move forward from failures. Like we don’t have to be stuck in
[01:05:56] Chris Gazdik: them.
Well said. My, my good friend Victoria. Let me take us outta here with the idea of letting you know, listen, we really have a lot of things, as Victoria was just going on in today’s day and age around the world, that you can get caught and stuck with the failure space that you’re in. Whether it be with a war.
Whether it be with losing your house, my gosh, you know, losing your, your companion, your compadre, your job, your finances, your status, your office, my goodness, you know, Ukraine is facing, losing their, their country. You know, so there there’s lots of powerful failures in small failures that you have from day-to-day living.
You know, there is hope. This is the season of renewal as we get into the new year, and I want you to have a, a, a sense of how do we go about this? Because these motivational quotes, these motivational thoughts, really are uplifting and they’re uplifting because that’s where you get to when you work through identifying the feelings that you’re having, the grief experience that you have, and the mindset of growth that you can create from really tough spots that you find yourself in today.
So again, hope the holiday season is going well for you. We’re gonna ride ’em through as much as we can with the crazy schedules, but we’re here and we’ll be wishing you in New Year’s very soon. Take care and we’ll see you next week. Bless. Bye
[01:07:17] John-Nelson Pope: bye-bye.