After spending an episode talking about what menopause is, this time the panel talks about what can be done to help women during this transition in their lives. We look at how this affects the different aspects of their lives, especially in marriage or relationships. At the end we look at what we should be doing to help normalize this topic so more and more people are aware of this change in their lives.
Tune in to see Menopause Normalized Through a Therapist’s Eyes…again.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- Do you really know what menopause is?
- When and how does menopause occur?
- How can menopause affect my life?
Links referenced during the show:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-are-the-34-symptoms-of-menopause#symptoms
Male menopause: Myth or reality? – Mayo Clinic
The ‘male menopause’ – NHS (www.nhs.uk)
Why do women fear the menopause? | Menopause (medic8.com)
A historical perspective on menopause and menopausal age – PubMed (nih.gov)
Menopause – Diagnosis and treatment – Mayo Clinic
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
Audio Podcast Version Only
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Episode #240 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Through a Therapist’s Eyes. Happy bur belated birthday. I must throw out to my brother on August the eighth. I just realized and thought in the moment I do that because this is August the 10th, not August the eighth, but happy brother. Happy brother. Happy birthday brother. Throw that out there to Ronnie.
Ick. I’m sure you won’t ever hear this though. That’s what’s sad about it, Victoria. I never know it’s
Victoria Pendergrass: possible. Send it to him. Send it to him.
Chris Gazdik: This is through a therapist eyes where you get insights directly from a panel of therapists in your home and in your car, but not delivery of therapy services in any way.
We have the book that has been put to the editor, John. Oh really? Hallelujah. Did you know that? No, I did not know that. Hallelujah. Congratulations. Oh my gosh. But the painful part starts. She goes through the whole book in, in like, she went through a whole quarter of the book already the [00:01:00] first week, like content editing that’s deep editing of the content.
And then she’ll finish it up like in a week or two, and I get to basically rewrite the whole thing. Oh. Sounds like fun. Oh my God. So that’s what a dissertation is? Yeah. Essentially.
John-Nelson Pope: I’m like, see, that’s what you’re doing. I mean, you’re
Chris Gazdik: doing it. I know. Well, so you want me to go to doctoral program too? Oh, definitely.
I think he’s gonna have us all in school. This guy.
Victoria Pendergrass: Seriously, guy, are you paying for it? Are you full? Bill for all this?
Chris Gazdik: John Pope is hanging out with us. How are
John-Nelson Pope: you? I am doing outstanding. Thank you very
Chris Gazdik: much. And Ms. Victoria
Victoria Pendergrass: Pengra. I’m good. Very well read.
Chris Gazdik: You are very low red. Compulsively reading. We’re gonna try to get moving on from that ’cause we got a lot to get to today.
Five stars is important. Guys on Apple iTunes. We haven’t had a comment on iTunes. It really helps us to get found on the show. So please leave us a note. If you listen on Apple iTunes, I got an ask for you. Will you please type a [00:02:00] review about the show? That helps us tremendously. Well, good review. Well, thank you.
That’s true. Do I have to qualify that? No, I don’t
John-Nelson Pope: think so.
Chris Gazdik: And then contact at through a therapist eyes.com is the great way to contact us and get up with us. I have an announcement that I’m excited about. It’s a teaser. We have a new sponsor to the show. Now understand we do have a couple of sponsors we played with over the, over the time, but really, really and truly the other ask that I have is that you, you guys make this show go and, and help us to, you know, we just bought two mic cords that went bad on us.
We, we have things like that, that we need help with. So buy us a cup of coffee is clicking on the page. I’m dropping just a $5 gift and support for the show that hopefully entertains you, informs you, and helps you to cope with and understand mental health and substance abuse because this is the human emotional experience and we need you to help us [00:03:00] endeavor to figure that out together.
Like how I threw that hole together there. It’s smooth. Not bad. Yeah, not bad. So we got an, we got the intro out of the way last time with part two Menopause normalized. Mm-hmm. My goodness. First of all, before we get to our lead in that Victoria has for us, I suppose, what was your all’s like? Just sense of having a conversation we had last time?
Like I, I really want us to trigger. A national and worldwide discussion on a topic that has hardly been talked about is what I maintained. But as we did that and endeavored into that conversation, what, how would you experience that? How, how was that, what was that like for you? Difficult, weird, fine, awkward.
Enlightening. Enlightening.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, ’cause I, I said it last time. I definitely [00:04:00] learned things that I, as a female or a person who identifies as a female did not know, so.
Chris Gazdik: Right. Okay. John, as a dude, man, how, how was that? Like, what was that like for you? I’m curious.
John-Nelson Pope: Awkward. Yeah. Yeah. You, it was a little awkward for me.
I mean, if you want me to get into like, Intellectual things or academic things? No, it’s just, you just, but for me personally, it’s not something that, that I still, after many years of living don’t feel comfortable talking
Chris Gazdik: about. It’s funny, isn’t it? Yeah. I mean, I literally had this sense when I was getting through my day.
I had a very full day today and, you know, I’m gearing my brain and I go through this like, transition from the day into the show and I was kind of like, oh man, are, did we, did we, are we gonna do that again? Yeah. Like, well it’s, part
John-Nelson Pope: of it is, is that I’m old school [00:05:00] and so you normally don’t talk about things like this, and this is, and what’s a man talking about?
Something that is pretty much I guess in the area of, of, of being female, right?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: I think, I think the important thing is that you’re not, it’s not, you’re, you’re, you’re not making decisions for, you’re just informing. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Well, it’s funny guys, because I, I, I, I will talk, will say I had some learning to do and this sets up the emotional implications of talking about menopause mm-hmm.
And the sexuality reality that this all is right. Mm-hmm. How about that? Does that roll off the tongue? Mm-hmm. You know early on as a young man, I mean, you know, I’m, I’m in social work school and I had my internship and there’s two experiences that I had where it’s kind of like, Okay. We don’t talk about sex.
Right? Like, he, what, what are we doing? So, so to break that down as part of my [00:06:00] training, you gotta imagine this. Now I’m sitting here as a dude, like, I think the only dude in the room, maybe there was one other dude there that, my guy that, that worked there, that my, who was actually my supervisor and they set it up to talk about sexuality as a way of the, the, the, the teachers at the practicum were all like aliens and wanting to know about sex, human sexuality from us.
Mm-hmm. Breaking down all the words, you know, all the things that are said, like what body parts are called and all this. And I’m like, I’m the only dude in this room. I just want it to melt. It’s this torture. Are you kidding? I’m probably turning a little red right now, thinking you are about it. Like, and the other one was you know, a, a, a supervisor, Jeff who, who talked about sexuality in my second job.
Mm-hmm. It was like you did a training on it and I was like, oh wow. I mean, now it’s just like, fine. I talk about sexuality and sexual issues, women’s issues, men’s issues and therapy like all the time. ’cause it’s part of, you know, [00:07:00] mental health care, but you have to get through that liquidity. Right, right.
Well
John-Nelson Pope: the other thing is, is that menopause is a, a very, it’s natural in, in our life stage or in women’s life stage. A hundred percent. And then we, we kind of, and this is where I was, I was skirting around a bit was that I, I was kind of putting some sexuality in into it when it’s, there are two different things.
They, they are similar, but it’s not, they’re not either or exclusively. Am I making sense? I’m looking at Victoria. Maybe in, in other words it’s not just Sexuality in terms of, of let’s say
Chris Gazdik: well, I get, in terms of a, what I get, what I get you saying is that, is sexuality is an issue that we talk about in therapy.
This is, has a component of sexuality in it, but it’s just a normal, normal life [00:08:00] transition. Yes. Medical reality. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. That we’re on the same page then. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I think that’s, that’s in part, you know, we were gonna do a segment later on, but it’s in our conversation now. So what do we mean by, you know, menopause normalize?
And I think that’s, that’s part of what I would like to have an agenda at, to touch on what you’re saying, John. Mm-hmm. That this doesn’t have to be a mystery.
Mm-hmm. It doesn’t have to be awkward. Right. It doesn’t have to be fear inducing or shame inducing. As it is. Mm-hmm. It’s just a normal transition.
And I, you know, I want to make sure we get to the end where we, we talk a little bit about the beautiful reality that this creates. Mm-hmm. This is just, yeah, exactly.
John-Nelson Pope: John, you just lit up. Yeah, I did. Because it’s it’s just one aspect of one’s growing and being in and having experienced life, being in life.
Mm-hmm. And getting as many experiences as possible. And [00:09:00] even if it’s a transition from, let’s say, being able to reproduce is also a, another chance that one could actually deepen one’s enjoyment of sex getting as.
Chris Gazdik: Sorry, I had a problem on my thing. I thought I had my phone jacked out. Sorry, John.
What’s that? Well, I was hearing myself. Yeah. Is that weird? Yeah, it is. It is very weird. My apologies. But, but in, in
John-Nelson Pope: other words I’ve got say in my own personal experience Sex is much better in some ways. Yeah. In in many ways.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. I, I appreciate that. And, and that’s part of what we’re trying to kind of get, and there is sex after 50.
There is sex after 50. Yes. Are you sure? 52.
Victoria Pendergrass: That should also be normalized.
Chris Gazdik: That should normalize. It’s, it’s, yeah. I mean, that’s good to know. I’m 50. Right. It’s good to know. There’s a lot [00:10:00] to all of that. And, and we’re gonna break those, those sections down because, you know, we talked about the, the idea of really a lot in part one guys, and if you should have said this right off the get go before we’re, you know, however many 10 minutes in, you know, to, to really check out part one if you haven’t already heard that, because we talked really about what is menopause.
It’s a lot of really good, important information that, as you said, Victoria was very enlightening to you as a woman, right? Yeah. Which, you know and, and, and, but now today is applying this, like how does this really apply in life and what are the different facets in and outs of dealing with it. So we can continue that kind of ation.
But we have a lead in Victoria, you were gonna talk to your
Victoria Pendergrass: ladies? I was uhoh. Okay. So my mom ended up, ended up being sick last week and so I didn’t really get a chance to talk to her about it because. She wasn’t feeling good. But funny story, when we were wrapping up last week, which y’all were here for, that my grandmother called.
Okay. Yeah. ’cause she had been [00:11:00] listening to last week’s episode and she mentioned that which we thought was funny because that was one thing we were talking about is that people will say that they like, don’t experience it. Well I think we said it
Chris Gazdik: on the show. Yeah. And so like,
Victoria Pendergrass: just before we handled it actually.
Yeah. And so she was calling me to say that she didn’t experience anything and that she even went to her doctor and her doctor all confirmed that, but we thought that was fun. Yeah. But I mean, I still want to, I still plan on talking to my mom and her friends about it. I just, honestly, with her being sick this past week, we.
I didn’t really get a
Chris Gazdik: chance to. Well, that’s cool talk. It’s a,
Victoria Pendergrass: it is. It’s, yeah, it’s, it’s
Chris Gazdik: a conversation that, that hopefully you didn’t avoid. I think a lot of people avoid it. Hopefully you didn’t just forget, because I think a lot of people actually do forget, which is one of the reasons why, you know, I think mothers don’t talk to daughters as much about this.
Mm-hmm. This all because I, I, I think a lot of people, so, [00:12:00] so it’s minimize
John-Nelson Pope: the talk.
Chris Gazdik: Ooh, go further with that. Right? No, no. The talk
John-Nelson Pope: you, you like the birds and the bees. The birds and the bees. Mm-hmm. But nobody talks about menopause. There
Chris Gazdik: is no talk. There’s no talk. There’s the no talk. Yeah. Menopause. Well, and
Victoria Pendergrass: I think that that’s one the whole forgetful thing too, is why we don’t talk to our doctors.
’cause you know when you go to the doctor’s office and you’re like, okay, in your head, I’m gonna talk, ask about this, this, this, and this, right? Yeah. And then you get there, and then you leave the doctor and you’re like, oh crap, I forgot to ask about this, this, this. Right. Of course. I feel like it’s kind of like that.
You know, you go to the doctor, you’ve been experiencing these weird symptoms, like the ones we mentioned last week, and then you get to the doctor and you forget to mention them because whether either you forget or you feel like it’s not really important or it’s not related to anything. This is relevant.
[00:13:00] Yeah. And so then, That kind of prolongs the conversation as well, because you’re, you’re not,
Chris Gazdik: right. Why would I talk about my dry mouth? Yeah. It’s a weird experience at the gynecologist. There’s no way that I would’ve thought about talking to my doctor about the spot on my leg. Yeah. Like, well, and especially I showed Victoria afterwards and we were laughing about that too.
Right? Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: I told you it’s really real, isn’t it? And so, yeah. I mean, especially when you go to the gynecologist, like you’re there for pap smears, gyno reasons. Right. And so, you know, I’m not thinking like, on this list, you know, that to ask my doctor about where’s my hair falling out? Irritability or muscle tension, or have like fingernails.
Yeah. Or cracking more mm-hmm. Changes in taste. Like how does, what does that have to do with, I mean, sometimes when you get pregnant, you’re, you can have changes in taste, but you know, like, what does that have to do with like visiting my. OB [00:14:00] gyn you I see your point. You wouldn’t make, you wouldn’t ask those questions.
Yeah. And so then I feel like it, that’s, like I said, prolongs the conversation and then, you know, and so then you’re my, I mean, I’m 30 or I, I’ll be 30 next month. Like then you’re 30 years old and you don’t know much about menopause. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. You know? Absolutely. Well, let’s go down and, and how this stuff applies.
I mean, the, let’s, let’s first talk about fear, right? Let me tell fear about menopause, I think is a big, big factor. Like why do people cite. Fears and, and, and again, a reminder, I’ve got a lot of links to articles and things that I saw you know, out there as I was kind of thinking about different angles that we would say and look at.
And, you know, this article was cool. They saw the, they cited fears that there’s all the stigmas attached to menopause and is viewed as a time when a woman is no longer fertile [00:15:00] and is growing old and less attractive. Jonathan, a lot of the beautiful transitions you were highlighting when you lit up is the opposite of what people are, are fearful
John-Nelson Pope: about.
Well, Neil saw my wife and Yeah. You would attest that she’s beautiful.
Chris Gazdik: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. So not as, yeah. Beautiful as maybe his wife, he would think, but
John-Nelson Pope: yeah. Right. Oh, I would get him in trouble, wouldn’t I?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Be careful, man. Sorry. No, no, no. It, and my wife’s the most beautiful wife, of course, you know?
Mm-hmm. But, you know, seeing as old and unattractive and less of a woman after menopause is some of the sense of sadness that is about reproductive, you know, ability leaving and you know, we’re so youth centric. We, we are so, I mean, Victoria, how many products are used in women’s world to maintain, like looking young, right?
Too many mean I don’t much about these
Victoria Pendergrass: things. Many, too many to count, right? You got your eye creams, your face mask, your hair [00:16:00] cream, your hair bath. Like there’s like hair mat. Yeah. Hair masks. Hair, hair masks. Yeah. It’s like such putting your is such a thing. Hair. And you leave it in there and it’s supposed to help.
Wow. You know, whatever. Yeah. Very
Chris Gazdik: cool. I mean, it’s
Victoria Pendergrass: you thick in your hair. It’s supposed to provide, I don’t know. See, I don’t even know. Like, like Right. I don’t even know what the, it’s supposed to help with your scalp, I think. And like the nourish. You
Chris Gazdik: have your hair. I You never used a hair mat brother.
John-Nelson Pope: Evidently not. You
Chris Gazdik: could see, well, you might have, you know, in the back. There’s some I had, I have some here. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: And not just the, and and that’s just like face stuff and then you have the rest of your body. Right. Like,
Chris Gazdik: right. And I, and I’ve listened to podcasts and gotten into science about it. It’s interesting.
There was one that I listened to about what really works about them and a lot of them that don’t even work. Oh, yeah. Spend thousands of money on product. Oh yeah. Product junkie, right? Yeah. I
Victoria Pendergrass: bought this humidifier thing that’s [00:17:00] supposed to it just like blows steam into your face and it’s supposed to, you know, like open up your pores.
I have. It was like one 50 maybe. I’ve used it twice. Oh, right. It just sits in my closet. Of course, a hundred percent. And I look at it every time I open my closet and I’m just like, I don’t have time for this. Like I
Chris Gazdik: think that I will maintain. And I’m curious, Victoria, what you see with this is, is that the fear is a major factor in going through to keep our youth.
Mm-hmm. Look, our youth feel our youth reality. And that the menopause fear is transitioning, that there’s no stopping it and we are gonna get in it and beyond it. And it’s a horrible Well,
Victoria Pendergrass: and I think reality, I think that some of that has to do with the fact that our society has such an emphasis on being young and looking young and having that youth like.
Appeal or appearance. Yeah. And so therefore, yes, they use [00:18:00] that, those fear ta tactics to say like, you know, for people to not get wrinkles under their eyes or bags under their eyes, or do this or have that, or whatever. And I think that it’s not necessarily focused on, you know, appreciating your beauty as you get older and what that looks like instead of aging gracefully.
It’s Yeah. Instead of this whole, which is why, I mean, I, I, you know, I’m on TikTok, like I see tons of videos on TikTok where girls get ready for bed and they put 17 different creams on their face before they get into bed.
John-Nelson Pope: How, besides. Reading. How many books have you read this last
Chris Gazdik: week? Uhoh like
John-Nelson Pope: six, six books.
300 pages each. Okay. More? Yeah. More or more. Do you have time to, to watch TikTok?
Chris Gazdik: How do you have time?
Victoria Pendergrass: I squeeze
Chris Gazdik: it in there. John. I think, I think the TikTok thing was like weeks ago, I [00:19:00] think that was not in the compulsive reading section
Victoria Pendergrass: that Victoria has. No, but still, like, you see all these people and I think sometimes it’s, it’s a lot of times it is that fear of aging and part of aging right, is menopause.
Chris Gazdik: Right? And, and, and we wanna normalize that. We wanna. Make that an okay reality, isn’t it? Okay. John, you said there’s sex after 50. Yeah, there is. You know, you don’t, you don’t wither away and turn into a prune, you know, when, when you go through a body change, you know? Mm-hmm. I mean, I’m not happy about some of the things that have changed in my body as I’m in middle aged, you know?
My stamina is just not like, I went outside two weeks ago to do lawn work, and I knew that I was going to push myself as long and as hard as I could. I had so many things I wanted to accomplish. I got myself heat sick. It was Did you reall
How’d you do on
Victoria Pendergrass: the elliptical
Chris Gazdik: yesterday? Oh, I did. Fantastic. I, I got, I got my record. I keep record. We ran into each other in the gym. Yeah. My point is, is you’re changing and can [00:20:00] we, John, accept those changes, right? Without a bashed fear Uhhuh about what we’re are and what we’re going to be. Can that be.
Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, I would hope so. You’re asking him, but I’m answering. I mean, I would, that’s okay. I would hope that we can get to that point where people can embrace their beauty and their life as someone who is premenopausal and postmenopausal, like, and that just be a more accepted part of society than this whole
Chris Gazdik: shame
Victoria Pendergrass: based Well, yeah.
Reality. I have to be young and I have to, and you know, going through menopause is a, it means that, I guess for a lot of women, that means that I am no longer this young person. And I, I’m sorry. No, and that’s a, that’s a lot to accept and it is, it’s scary. And deal with and be able to move past, sorry, John, go ahead.
No,
John-Nelson Pope: no, it’s, [00:21:00] it’s okay. I’m just thinking that one of the. The things is when people want to look like they are 15 again or 20, or, or dress that way, or 25, and they, they do the extremes with the hair and what you could do with your hair, for example, in terms of coloring and, and types of, of styles. You can’t do when you’re 50.
You can’t do when you’re 60. You can’t wear the same clothes necessarily, but, but to, to do it in a way that you’re not looking like, you feel like you’re an old fuddyduddy. Right. And you wanna feel like you’re attractive and that you’re, you’re aging gracefully. Mm-hmm.
Chris Gazdik: And so, yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s, I I think that there’s a lot that goes into, you know, the next segment that I wanna highlight is the shame, because, you know, we just did a whole show on shame-based feelings.
Mm-hmm. And, you know, [00:22:00] Is it fair to say when we think about a segment on shame like that, it is such a huge part of the menopause experience? Unfortunately. Unfortunately, and needs not be at all. How about that for a bold statement? Yeah. Can we say that menopause is such, such a huge shame-based component that needs to be not at all.
I would love to be able to Oh, I think so. Facilitate that. Yeah. Yeah. There’s no reason to feel shameful about this, but, you know, I refer back to the, the show. We just spent a long dive. We won’t spend as much time on it here today, but all that shame does, I mean, you know, you’re sweating profusely for a reason.
You know, people can understand and they’re not gonna demonize you. If we all understand that there’s, that’s sometimes what people experience in midlife when their bodies are changing, you know, [00:23:00] sweating and oh, I do a lot of that. Well,
Victoria Pendergrass: I was gonna say i’s pretty sweating right
Chris Gazdik: now. It can be bad though, Uhhuh.
I mean, you’re, you’re like dripping wet for no reason. Oh yeah. When you’re just, well, and it’s like the body breeze outside. Yeah. Yeah. You’re literally sitting at your cubicle and you’re well, or you’re go,
John-Nelson Pope: or you’re playing with the air conditioning, the temperature gauge goes, goes up or that Absolutely.
The husband says, or the spouse, a partner says, yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. Well, and I think maybe part of the shame comes. From, okay, so if I’m out in public, right, and I’m, let’s say I’m at the Walgreens right here and I am buying something and I’m clearly like dripping sweat. Yeah. Well, and I’m at the age where I’m in like pre perimenopausal, right?
I think for some women, the shame comes from, you don’t want to have to admit when someone looks at you, oh, I’m in menopause, pre menopause, or whatever. Yeah. Hell no. And so I think [00:24:00] that that sometimes brings along some of the shame, which makes it hard to just. Completely get rid of that because some women, we talked about this a little bit last week, but you don’t want to admit that that’s what’s happening to you,
Chris Gazdik: right?
It’s, it’s, it’s very nature of shame. Shame is, I’ve done something wrong. There is something wrong with me. I am faulty or un, you know, unwell in some way, and that I’m, I’m guilty for that. And I think
Victoria Pendergrass: that sometimes it means that ex, how do I say this? Accepting that I might look like I’m old enough to actually be going through perimenopause.
Does that make sense?
Chris Gazdik: Oh, that’s interesting. Go a little further with
Victoria Pendergrass: that. I think that might be where some of the shame goes is that if I am in the Walgreens sweating profusely or having a hot flash that, and someone either gives me a weird look then. [00:25:00] That means that, or you think they’re giving you Yeah, or they, I think I’m, yeah.
Or they’re whatever. And I say, you know, that, does that mean that now I look like I’m old enough to be going through menopause? Which means comes back to that a little bit, doesn’t it? Which means therefore I’m no longer looking youthful or
John-Nelson Pope: young. Yeah. So this isn’t just menopause, this is when somebody’s comes up and I’m at Harris Teeter and somebody that is younger than I, and I’m doing the self-checkout and said, do you want the senior discount?
Chris Gazdik: Right, right.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. And they’re assuming that you’re a senior just by the way you look. Right? Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. You know, which is, which is interesting, John, you’re right, it, this isn’t just about menopause because this is experienced in different ways. Uhhuh, which is one of the reasons why I think I’ve been able to really kind of work with women about this and identify with some of the realities because.
Again, men go through things too. You know, we, we very much go through, you know, dealing with our, we lose our hair. I mean, [00:26:00] horrible. Right, right. Yeah. And, and it’s, and it’s something you can’t stop, you can’t control. And I mean, I know a guy that was in college, a buddy of mine that
literally like it, you would be in a fight to the death if you took his his hat off, because he wanted no one in the world to know that he didn’t have hair.
Yeah. That was like so mortifying.
John-Nelson Pope: And, and I think one of the, well there’s this going off topic a little bit, but the issues that when a bad toupee, for example you know, somebody’s wearing a toupee. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah. And you want to, you wanna be compassionate, you wanna be understanding, but it, it’s almost saying, look at me.
I’ve got a two pay. I’m bald. You
Chris Gazdik: know, however, I do wanna make the point with this that I, I think one of the things that makes this so much more potent though uhhuh, is that these changes are [00:27:00] so many changes. And happened so rapidly. Mm-hmm. That it’s like all at once. And I, I, I just can’t imagine it because I haven’t experienced it.
It’s, but remember men go through this like a roller coaster. Remember Uhhuh, it’s tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick to the top of the hill, and then what happens for a guy, it’s like, like coast down, that slow log ride, man, where we coast down with our hormone
Victoria Pendergrass: levels. But yeah, women, they’re not just experiencing just, just hot flashes.
It’s hot flashes and the dry mouth and the change in taste and the irritability, it’s, and this all at one time, sole,
John-Nelson Pope: one time summer salt,
Chris Gazdik: triple while
Victoria Pendergrass: you’re at one time while you’re carrying the weight of everything else in your life, right? Because
Chris Gazdik: now you still have teenagers, or your parents are aging and marriage is stressful.
Or your
John-Nelson Pope: young
Chris Gazdik: grandmother, A hundred percent. Yeah. You know, you’ve got a grandchild, so you’re
John-Nelson Pope: watching them and, and in some cases you’re also the primary care provider. You are the
Chris Gazdik: parent. [00:28:00] So let me ask this midway. Mm-hmm. To both of you. I meant to ask this right off the way, but I neglected ’cause we were doing some other things.
Maybe as a result of this conversation, more so you might, but up to date, particularly John, I’m curious if you have, Victoria, you didn’t really know much about it. Mm-hmm. So you probably couldn’t have had, you know, eyes and ears on about this. But like, do you see this in your clinical practice? Do you screen this and work with this and kind of incorporate this in whether somebody’s
John-Nelson Pope: going through menopause?
Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: You do? Yeah. Yeah, I do. Do you see the applications? Yeah. Yeah, I do.
John-Nelson Pope: I do. And part of that is, is that when I. You, you, you see a certain age, a person with the assessment, they provide their birthdate, that sort of thing, right? And so you see, you see that, right? And you don’t wanna make assumptions, but do you ask, but when you’re doing your diagnosis in your treatment [00:29:00] plan, is there a sense that, is there an underlying medical condition, let’s say the person’s having some, some difficulties, right?
With, with menopause, it’s going to affect one’s mental state state somehow. Yeah, it could be exacerbated.
Chris Gazdik: We, we have an obligation to be aware about this. I would make a bold statement to therapists, Uhhuh listening. It is out of our scope a little bit. Particularly if you’re a guy, because this is medical mostly, but this is a woman’s issue for a guy therapist.
But I’m gonna make the bold statement that us as therapists need to incorporate the medical rule outs and the reality of menopause on the routine. Mm-hmm. And I’m not sure that that’s done as regularly. As need be. Yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: and to answer your question, I don’t necessarily use it in screening or during my assessment.
I will now. There you go. Yeah. But I mean, I [00:30:00] do have, I love that. I do have some of my clients tell me, yeah, that they’ve already gone through. Menopause. When I ask, you know, I have a section where you ask about like medical issues and stuff. Well, that’s interesting.
Chris Gazdik: Victoria, I don’t wanna cut you off, but I think it’s a really important point.
And I’m curious, John, if you’ve had this experience. I’ve had that happen too, Victoria, but that’s more recent, I don’t think the first half of my career. Oh no. I don’t know that
John-Nelson Pope: that ever happened. You’re right. You’re right. Yeah. At least that’s been my lived
Chris Gazdik: experience.
Victoria Pendergrass: No one in terms like willingly said.
Oh, I’ve been there many now.
Chris Gazdik: I’ve
John-Nelson Pope: had that probably within the last 10, 15 years.
Chris Gazdik: A lot more of that. Right. I’m thinking about the last 10 years as well. The first 10 years. I, it never happened. I had never heard anyone say that. I’m still the two. So that’s cool that you see that Victoria and you, you’re noticing that people are saying
Victoria Pendergrass: that without, yeah.
Without me even having to ask. Right. But now I definitely will make it more of a part of my screeners. So
Chris Gazdik: glad we’re talking about this. Let’s take a time out here in the midpoint for [00:31:00] one of our other sponsors. But man, I’m really glad that we’re having this, this conversation. Me too. So our show sponsor is still through, not Through, through A Therapist Eyes is sponsored by Therapist Help.
No, not Therapist Helper is sponsored by John. Better Help. Alright. Better help is what Miss Victoria.
Victoria Pendergrass: Better Help is a app that you can use and I believe it’s also a website that you can have access to. Professional therapist. I’d call it a service. A service that you can have access to professional therapist whenever you need.
They match you online? Online, yeah. They fill, you fill out a form, they match you with a licensed therapist. You have access to them, basically 24 7
John-Nelson Pope: licensed social workers, licensed all masters level licensed mental health counselors, psychologists anybody that’s in, that’s licensed to provide mental [00:32:00] health counseling.
Chris Gazdik: So the deal is they’re a sponsor to our show. You get a 10% discount if you go to our website and click through the, the, the therapist helper tab. Neil, am I correct in saying that it’s also if you just go to through the or better help slash what is it? Do we know? Yeah, he’s gonna click through.
We need to know that. So you can just type it in your UR U R L as well. But you get a 10% discount and we get support for the show from that referral. You got it, Neil. One second. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4. It is through a therapist, so better help.com/through a therapist eyes. Yeah. Better help.com/through a therapist’s eyes.
Or you can go to our website and click the button. So let’s get back to our topic. So that is okay there. Let’s start this, this second half off with a big thing. It’s not really applicable or you know, I wanted today to be about [00:33:00] applying. You know, how do we apply this to life? So let’s try to be a little brief with this segment.
And I’ll say that we’ve got a great link about this, which was a big part of what they, they did on the the show that, that triggered this willingness in my mind in the first part, first place was, what was it? A New York Times podcast. Mm-hmm. You know, dated July 28th, 2023. Menopause is having a moment.
Okay. And they’ve talked a lot. Very informatively. I loved the way that they, they covered the, the treatments for menopause and the history of that. It was really, really excellent coverage for a lot of the things that is done in the world of treatment. But, you know, John, it’s funny, primarily when we talk about treatment for menopause, we’re talking about hormone replacement.
Mm-hmm. H r t. Mm-hmm. Hormone replacement therapy. That’s, that’s pretty much what we’ve got. Do you remember the big terror that got created about H R T?
John-Nelson Pope: It was cancer. Yeah. Different [00:34:00] types of cancer.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. If you take these hormones, breast gonna
John-Nelson Pope: get cancer. Cancer uterine cancer, ovarian cancer.
Chris Gazdik: Right. And, and I, and I learned very much by listening to this podcast that and, and don’t take it from me. I want you to go and check that out, because that’ll give you better information. But to paraphrase or summarize, what I learned from that is that honestly, the, the, the, the big fear that was created about hormone replacement therapy creating cancer was created because of like a single study or a single event where they, they showed these increases in percentage.
Of risk factor. Mm-hmm. Prior to that, I didn’t realize this, but, and it went back a while, like in the sixties and seventies, like hormones were being prescribed pretty strong. Mm-hmm. Like candy for, for treatment, 60 seventies, maybe eighties, I don’t mm-hmm. Remember dates as well, but, and then it stopped because of this fear.[00:35:00]
But the thing is, is you have a very low percentage of women that have cancer and there’s a percentage increase, but that percentage increase is already starting from a low percentage. You get it? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So
John-Nelson Pope: the ultimate, so it’s a minute amount. They’re
Chris Gazdik: basically minute, minute amounts. Yeah. And that’s what they went through and layered out through the studies to really get clearer.
Like it was this great national fear that got created, evidently, like kind of for no reason. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: I hate when stuff like
Chris Gazdik: that happens. It happens in a big way, but
Victoria Pendergrass: then it impacts. The amount, the ability for people to get
Chris Gazdik: help. Yeah. Hormone replacement therapy. I’ve been terrified about, I didn’t want to participate in it and now I’m kind of wondering like, maybe that’s okay.
Maybe it’s fine. I didn’t know that until I listened to the show two weeks ago. Right. Yeah. Any thoughts, John? You wasn’t sure if you’re No, no. [00:36:00] I thinking there.
John-Nelson Pope: No, I was just thinking that probably the, one of the things that the media does, and unfortunately, I mean, it does bring issues to, to the forefront that need to be addressed.
But one of the other problems is there’s it’s hyperbolic and so it magnifies, right, let’s say. And so suddenly everybody gets onto that train. And so basically good sound therapeutic practices are not are discarded because of a fear.
Chris Gazdik: Right. Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: And in other words, people’s alleviation of some of the more difficult symptoms of menopause
Chris Gazdik: hyperbolic.
I would, I would add, you know, fear, but also the shame that we were talking about. Mm-hmm. And, and some of the other things that kind of go into preventing us to even feel comfortable talking about it on a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. So the treatment that they go at actually, you know, hormone therapy, [00:37:00] vaginal, estrogen, low dose antidepressants gabapentin, clonidine, you know, it was interesting.
I’ve never heard of Zolin Fzo tent, and that’s a hormone free option for treating menopause hot flashes. Evidently it works by blocking a passageway in the brain that helps regulate body temperature and osteo and is actually osteoporosis meds. So I, I don’t know. See. It. It’s, that was new and interesting.
Maybe that’s some advancement that we’ve had, but mm-hmm. You see what I mean? I mean, it’s just, there’s nothing but medical reality here with, with medicines treating this and Right. You’re not gonna treat all of the things that are going on with your body changing.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. Yeah. That’s why, I mean, I think that’s why some people don’t even realize they’re go, like they’re already halfway through it.
Right. By the time they realize what’s going on and you kind of just have to, it’s almost as like a panic attack. You kind of just have to let it, let, let it ride it out [00:38:00] kind of thing. Right. Sometimes. And just, you know, let yourself calm down on its own. Let your body calm
Chris Gazdik: down on its own. What’s funny that you say that, I wanna jump in and transition as to the panic attack and what we do, because I think that, you know, the question is here and then go further with what you’re saying.
How does this affect mental health? How does this interact with the anxiety and the depressions and, and mental health realities?
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, I mean, I think it definitely in impacts mental health as far as it probably could lead to having things like panic attacks and anxiety attacks. Yeah. I was just more comparing it towards like, sometimes you just have to ride it out and not so you get the hot flashes and not seek the, you know, there is no, you know, you, there’s, with the understanding that there’s not necessarily medical treatment
Chris Gazdik: to like, well, I’d like to change that jargon, Victoria.
I, I think that some, unfortunately, I, I don’t think you’re doing it, but you know, historically in stark terms mm-hmm. Women were told basically, oh [00:39:00] yeah, this is a thing. You’re getting older, deal with it. And it’s like, yeah, yo, hold on, wait a minute. Don’t, don’t do that. Like, I don’t, I’m not saying you were doing that.
Yeah. But, but I, I, I wanna, I wanna change the idea of write it out to, is this something that we can accept? Right. You know, when we were talking about shame and, and, and medical conditions and whatnot, it was like fighting against this stuff or accepting this stuff makes a huge difference in why I think creates a lot of the mental strife that goes along with this.
That’s a hell of a thing to accept. I know. I can’t imagine. I don’t know. As a guy, I know, I don’t know, but at least I know. I don’t know, right? Mm-hmm. The, it’s a hell of a thing to accept, but I think when we’re fighting against what our bodies is naturally doing, you’re gonna create all kinds of distress.
Okay.
John-Nelson Pope: I’m, I’m, I’m trying, I’m wrapping my brain [00:40:00] around this a little bit. Okay. And that’s, and that is, in other words, I feel like
Chris Gazdik: I said something
John-Nelson Pope: wrong, Victoria. No, no. Accepting, accepting it is different than, let’s say, fighting it. And I’m wondering if, by what Victoria was saying, is, let’s say if you have a panic attack as an analogy mm-hmm.
You, you don’t try to fight it as much as you, as you go ahead and say, okay, the you’ve kind of rehearsed yourself how you’re gonna go through with this. And I can, I can get to the other end of it, and I’m wondering if it might be a little bit more, is that what you’re saying? Yeah. Yeah. In other words.
Yeah. Well, I.
Chris Gazdik: It’s, I mean, yeah, go use your words.
John-Nelson Pope: My words are use that you just kind of embrace it. Yeah, yeah. Embrace it. Yeah. And it just is, it is what it is. [00:41:00]
Chris Gazdik: How’s that? Neil knows that, that, that phrase drives me crazy. And I was talking about that. I did it on purpose. Did you realize? And nicely done, man.
Yeah. Yeah. On July month in review. We, we’ve resolved this though, John. It is what it is, but therefore I’m going to do what I can Do you remember that part too, right? That’s right’s, right? Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: I can do what
Chris Gazdik: I can do. Thanks, John. It is what it is. Menopause is what it is, but I’m gonna do what I can do.
And I think that’s rolling with it. I think that’s accepting it. You know, it’s funny one of these times that somebody brought up menopause in a therapy session not too long ago. They were like talking about Yeah, my, my, we talked about it. My mom told me, just put my head in the freezer. That’s what worked for her.
Uhhuh. That’s what I’m gonna do. I’m like, holy cow. Okay. Okay. That’s acceptance. I mean, it’s,
Victoria Pendergrass: it’s, lemme just go open my deep
Chris Gazdik: freezer. I’m hot head, just cool off for a minute and you know, come back out and, you know, it’s, I, I, I think if you fight this mm-hmm you’re really losing the battle. To what your [00:42:00] body is going to do.
And, and, and you, you bring out all kinds of more fear and more shame and more mm-hmm. Disappointment and more sadness and more helplessness and disempowerment and the list probably goes,
Victoria Pendergrass: goes on. Well, I mean, ’cause for the most part of, for the most amount of women, this is inevitable. I mean it all.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah.
I would,
Victoria Pendergrass: I would say a very,
Chris Gazdik: is it not an all?
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, I don’t know. According to my grandmother, she didn’t have it. So
Chris Gazdik: she’s still menstruating. She’s still menstruating in 80. Oh right John. But I can’t believe it did. You just said
John-Nelson Pope: it. You said it. I said it. I’m so sorry to grandma. It’s
Victoria Pendergrass: okay. But, but you know, wait a minute.
That’s
Chris Gazdik: the awkwardness that we just all felt, and we laugh a little bit to take away the weird feeling, but that’s a question, you know, that’s a medical reality. Yeah. So that we need to reconcile. [00:43:00]
Victoria Pendergrass: It’s inevitable, right? Like Thanos says that he’s inevitable. Thanos, yes. You know Exactly. And so click at the finger.
Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Even I know this. Good job. I’m so proud of you, John, for all of you at all that don’t know, Thanos is a character in Marvel Sport sports Marvel comics universe, Marvel, the Marvel universe.
Victoria Pendergrass: And, and he, but anyway, so my whole point is that it’s inevitable. So fighting it is only gonna put yourself in a more uncomfortable, awkward, whatever position it then if you just like a panic attack, embrace it and just, you know, do what you can, but then like move on or move forward.
Chris Gazdik: So let’s go a little further in like applying this in life. And, and it was funny ’cause I think we were like 15 minutes into our conversation. Last week, Victoria, and, and you were like, well, maybe we’ll get to this. But I just got some thoughts and I’m [00:44:00] thinking, you know, like, you know, when you’re going through all this and it’s a lot, and I wonder this has to, does this affect marriage?
You remember that?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. How you went through that. Yeah. That’s when John first suggested I do that as my the doctorate program. Dissertation, yes. My dissertation.
Chris Gazdik: I think that that needs to be a part of this conversation. How do we see, John, if you’ve screened for this and managed this, what do we see, you know, about how it affects marriage?
Does it affect marriage?
John-Nelson Pope: It just depends on the individual. And if it’s a female client, if I have a female client that may be expressed to me. If I have a male client that is expressed to me in saying that sometimes sex is not as enjoyable and on one level, and that is that there might be the vaginal [00:45:00] dryness that that takes place.
And so there, there, there could be pain during intercourse. Great. It doesn’t have to be that way.
Chris Gazdik: No, no. That’s where you get to the creams or that’s where you get
John-Nelson Pope: to the creams and
Chris Gazdik: that’s, yeah, yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah. They make plenty of stuff out there to help that.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Okay. Right. You know, the question, does this affect marriage?
I think we could say you went to, as, it’s sort an example, John, that certainly it is a medical reality for men as well, just again, as lu dramatic as it is for women, but men go through changes as well, and your sex drive and your libido ed, you, erectile dysfunction begins to be a major issue with men in their fifties more so than forties.
Mm-hmm. But very much so affects men sexually. Does, does, does menopause and body changes? Hormone changes affect women sexually Like, yes. Do you think that [00:46:00] sexual changes affect marriage?
Victoria Pendergrass: Hell yes. Right. Like,
Chris Gazdik: I mean, this is a terrifying reality sometimes. I am not attracted to my partner. I don’t want to have sex.
What am I gonna do? Right. They’re gonna wanna immediately divorce me. It’s so, like, I see this in,
Victoria Pendergrass: in co Well, I mean, and it’s not just the sex intimacy. I, at least I don’t think, I think it affects other aspects of marriage, like getting along with each other and, ’cause I mean, imagine you have your norm.
Imagine me, right? I I, ’cause I am alive. You were so sweet and docile and kind. Yeah. And I am, I’m a hot mess and I’m allowed to handle and bless my poor husband and my one year old. Right? But like, imagine that, and then all of a sudden it gets worse. Like my irritability gets worse. I’m now all of a sudden like not eating like I normally would be.
I’m, you know, having all these mood changes, sleeping. [00:47:00] My sleeping is. Non-existent or erratic or inconsistent, like, so it’s not just there are these factors. Yeah. So it’s not just the, a sex intimacy part of it too. I think it’s also just, you know, cohabitating together and now all of a sudden you have this person who is, she’s a stranger.
Yeah. Like a stranger in your own house. And then you have to wait minute, are we blaming women? No. But if you’re not, if you’re not setting up boundaries and you’re not communicating that this, these are the things that’s going on.
Right. Like, Hey babe, I’m really sorry I’m irritable this week, but my, like doctor informed me that I’m going through perimenopause and like Right.
And if you’re not, can we have that conversation? Yeah, I think so. I
Chris Gazdik: hope so. Well,
Victoria Pendergrass: if you’re not having it, I find people don’t.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Then they don’t.
John-Nelson Pope: I think the conversation, the communication is, is so important because what I find attractive in, in. My wife, [00:48:00] besides all the many other things is that we can communicate.
Yeah, it’s so crucial. It is so crucial and so, you know, to have that, that authentic relationship actually strengthens the marriage in my mind.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, I think you can go one of two ways, right? When you hit menopause or perimenopause, all that stuff, you either go the way of John here and you make, you make everything work.
You do the communicate or you go the other way and you like it ruins your marriage. Yeah. But I was also thinking, what about same-sex couples where you have two women who are both going through Oh wow. Menno, possibly both going through perimenopause. No,
Chris Gazdik: I
John-Nelson Pope: didn’t go.
Chris Gazdik: I haven’t gone there. You haven’t, John.
It’s a really excellent, I had never thought and like how, how is either John? I’m sorry. It’s okay. Me either. Isn’t
Victoria Pendergrass: that amazing? I’m an ally here, so I’m just thinking about like how is Yeah, that, I mean, imagine having [00:49:00] just one person in a marriage go through. M menopause. Right. But then having that times two, and you still have, if y’all have kids, if they have kids together, like mm-hmm.
You know, and they’re still like, so I’m sure you’re excellent. I’m, that puts a huge strain on their relationship.
Chris Gazdik: A lesbian couple with two women together, and a partnership has gotta be one hell of a ride in midlife. Yeah. Yeah. I can only imagine. But let me, I wanna make this a, a major point if I can, a takeaway, it’s not my phrase, I wanna make that clear, but I read it and I subscribe to it a hundred percent.
I think I said this in part one as well, but it, but it really stands to reason here when we’re talking about, you know, marriage and the different factors that it means that it take, takes over with, you know, men and relating to men and, and all of this, like, hear this clearly. Menopause does not create any new emotional issues with an individual person or between the, the spouses or [00:50:00] partners.
It just doesn’t, it doesn’t create any problems. It, it heightens ’em. Mm-hmm. It magnifies ’em to the exponential level of 10 or whatever. And that’s, so you’re saying
Victoria Pendergrass: that if resentment was already there,
Chris Gazdik: now it’s gonna be
Victoria Pendergrass: exemplified prior to Right. Perimenopause. Okay. It’s only gonna be, as you just said, exemplified, heightened.
It hurts.
Chris Gazdik: Were there prior. They’re going to be heightened. If communication problems were there prior, it’s going to be magnified. Mm-hmm. It doesn’t create any communication problems, doesn’t create any marital issues. It doesn’t create any personal characteristics. Mm-hmm. It doesn’t create any deficits of self-esteem, but when they’re there, They really get magnified.
That’s the thing that we, we need to under, it’s like becoming a vampire.
Victoria Pendergrass: What do you mean by all your senses Get heightened? Heightened. Oh, is
Chris Gazdik: that what Queen remember? Okay. She’s, she’s, I’m just,
John-Nelson Pope: so it’s [00:51:00] everything. It’s post and rice. Yeah. And vampire. Okay.
Chris Gazdik: That you’re talking Twilight. Twilight. Yeah.
Twilight, Twilight, Twilight. Is this a twilight, twilight, soga thing? Twilight, yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Under bus. But so I mean, it, it, it makes sense that, I mean, I would, I would agree with that statement. Yeah. But,
John-Nelson Pope: but other, let’s say there’s medical issues that are going on. Let’s say someone does develop cancer or something, there’s gonna be a heightening of some of the, and, and I’m not talking about something that is, In, in the sense that menopause is, is an, is a natural progression of aging.
But, but I am saying that let’s say that one gets sick, has, has cancer, develops it or an autoimmune disease or lupus there’s gonna be a heightening of some of the, the tensions there as well. Oh, absolutely. Exponentially, like you said, 10%,
Chris Gazdik: I mean 10 times. Well, like you, I think you can really speak to what you enjoy experienced.
John, I know year or two ago you enjoy, were [00:52:00] talking about the uhhuh, the real medical challenges that y’all have faced.
John-Nelson Pope: She’s starting to see more and more of the progression of her arachnoiditis. Right. She’s starting to see some of the other physical effects. And so besides the natural part of aging, it’s, it’s, it’s a
Chris Gazdik: double leaps compounded impact.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And if you wanna know what we’re talking about, we did a, we did a spot on service animals. You can look back in our history. It’s somewhere in the middle, like episode 100 and something, you know, and, and Jojo joined us and it was awesome experience because Bob, the dog got to be in action and we totally got to observe it for Tory.
It was really Yeah. Know I’m jealous. Super cool. It was super cool. Bob was totally taking care of her. I’ve met Bob, the dog
John-Nelson Pope: you met. You liked
Chris Gazdik: Bob, the dog. He’s great. Yeah, he’s awesome. He’s also ginormous. He is a big
John-Nelson Pope: boy. Yeah. He’s got a, a wide ars. A wide horse. Yeah. He’s very [00:53:00] sturdy. And so when Joy falls, he, she can put he he’ll stiffen brace, he’ll brace and she can pull herself up.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, that’s okay. Yeah. It’s, yeah, it’s a lot. It’s, it’s amazing. Let, let’s, let’s, let’s end here and spend some good time on menopause. Normalized. John, we were touching on it. I think when you kind of beamed and brightened up about how this is a wonderful positive mm-hmm. Growth, life change experience. Yeah.
Right. Like if we look at this as re reverse teenager in, in reverse there. I
John-Nelson Pope: was just thinking of that, right? Yeah. Okay, good. It’s like, it’s like getting your driver’s license. Yeah. Or, or looking forward to that, or being able to go to the prom, right. Or something of that sort, you know, or that you get to have your adult beverages when you turn 21.
Chris Gazdik: I mean, it’s such a terrifying reality. I remember my son literally saying to me, dad, [00:54:00] you have a lot of hair on your arms. I’m like, yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s right. He’s like, dad, Dad, I don’t, I don’t want that. Oh,
John-Nelson Pope: you could be scared of it. Oh, I see, I see
Chris Gazdik: what you’re saying. Yeah. Easy daddy. I don’t want that Uhhuh.
And I’m like, inevitable. It’s okay. I said, you know, your body goes through changes and you know, we had probably similar to the talk we to many stages of the talk. Right. Puberty. So you’re puberty. Puberty, yeah. And he was terrified about this medical change, this body changing. And he was uncomfortable with it.
And he had to, as you said, Victoria, go with it. And so it’s a similar thing, I think in, in reverse, you know, teenage pubescent years is, you know, gracefully aging and mm-hmm. Like you brought up John. Mm-hmm. I mean this is, this is the same thing. And we don’t, you know, we know teenage times are tough. Yeah, they’re tough, but, but, but as you get through them is they’re not awesome payoffs like you were just pointing out.
Mm-hmm. So yeah, there’s, I think there’s a parallel there. Mm-hmm. I think there’s a [00:55:00] parallel there. You know, one of the things that’s awesome, it’s kind of funny, but really true. I mean, I’m a guy, I can’t identify this at all, but how amazing Victoria will it be when you don’t have to deal with
Victoria Pendergrass: a period, right.
Bleeding from my body. I can’t imagine for one week at a time. Can’t imagine once a month.
Chris Gazdik: Can’t
Victoria Pendergrass: imagine Eric effing sucks. It, it sucks. I mean, nevermind. That’s
Chris Gazdik: T M I or tmi.
Victoria Pendergrass: Go ahead. Go ahead. I mean, I don’t, I don’t get one currently right now ’cause of pregnancy, my method of birth control. Oh, okay. But Before this?
Yeah, after I had a baby and I got it back, and now I was like, I went nine whole months without having, because I, you know, it’s, it
Chris Gazdik: sucks. Oh, so, oh, I see what you’re saying. It almost, yeah, basically went away. Nine, it goes away when you’re pregnant. Pregnancy, of course. And then, but when it came back,
Victoria Pendergrass: well, and I didn’t have mine for a while [00:56:00] because I breastfed, which, Prolongs getting your period back.
Mm-hmm. So I didn’t have my period for like a year and a half. Oh wow. Or if not more a reprieve. Yeah. It was great. And yeah, it sucks
Chris Gazdik: when you go through menopause. This is a permanent
Victoria Pendergrass: guard. You no longer have to carry round tampons and pads and Right. You know, have to worry about if you’re bleeding through your pants or not.
Right?
Chris Gazdik: I can’t imagine John. Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: Right. No, I can’t, I can’t. I was gonna say that there’s, because it’s not,
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah, no, I’m sorry, I keep interrupting.
Chris Gazdik: You gotta out domestic violence. That was, that was a classic through a the eyes moment right there. Mark that down. Neil,
John-Nelson Pope: Eric Erickson. Do you know the stage of growth that, that people are when they’re, I can’t remember middle age.
Okay. Is you, you It’s [00:57:00] stag.
Chris Gazdik: Generativity, yes. Can come on. Wait a minute, we got you off kilter. No, I really can. Eric Eric’s developmental milestones and market. Okay.
John-Nelson Pope: Generativity versus stagnation. Mm. Yeah. And so if you have sort of the negative aspect of it, you will feel that, oh God, this is the end of the world stagnation.
Right. Or you see this as a way to even be more creative. Awesome. And be generative. I love this
Chris Gazdik: and I’m sorry I hit you. It’s okay. Okay. I was a love tap. I was a love tap. Yeah. Go further with that, because that is the beautiful change process, and that’s a psychological thing, right?
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah, exactly. And, and I think that’s where people, you know, if they can prime themselves for success.
The idea behind the, the, the stages that Ericsson talks about, Very quickly is that we, in order to, to have a sense of fulfillment in one’s life, one has to successfully go through these stages. For example, [00:58:00] intimacy versus isolation is, mm-hmm. Is when you are Victoria’s age and for, for example, and that’s what you’ve done.
You’ve married, you have your life partner, you have you a child, a child, and all of that. When you get a little bit older, you say, okay, now how am I gonna make this mark in the, in the world? So I’ve got my kids. They’re growing up. And then there’s a transition where you could actually contribute even more to life
Chris Gazdik: example.
And there’s a lot that you’re gaining, gaining. So there’s no loss versus what you’re losing Yeah. Is part of what I hear you Yeah. Talking about. Right. Right. Exactly. There’s so much gain here than what we’re losing. What a concept. Thank you for going through that. I mean, that, that, that is this, that is a mind shift right there that I think is, is really pretty profound.
And that we can help people with, as you [00:59:00] say, to set up this process. And you know what, I’m sorry. Let’s not leave men outta that either. Yeah. Right. Because men, you know, oh my gosh. When you start having erectile dysfunction, do you know how horrible that is for a dude? John’s eyes just got wide, right? Like, not me.
Okay. Never. Never. I never had that problem. It’s a horrible show for a dude. To to, to have that. It’s like a
John-Nelson Pope: sense of one’s and let’s face, so we need to do another, we need to do a program on that. My friend. Prob probably so, sir. Yeah. Especially now that
Chris Gazdik: you’re 50. Oh God. Ouch. Uch. I got hurt. I got, I know.
Nailing people today. Sorry, I
Victoria Pendergrass: felt that bird for you. Chris.
Chris Gazdik: What is going on today? John, are you okay? Well, you were
John-Nelson Pope: looking at me and I’m going,
Chris Gazdik: okay. We will do a show on that, but not a [01:00:00] personal show. Mm-hmm. A broad topic show. A broad topic show because, but back to the point. That’s a, a lot of men experience that.
Mm-hmm. And a lot of men, like, I feel horrible. Like, that’s one of the reasons why I challenged myself the other day. I mean, I went out and I, I wanted to weed eat the yard. And I, you know, got the blower out. I trimmed the bushes and I pulled up all the trims. My son helped me a little bit with that. And I went and I sprayed a bunch of the weeds down in the back and the drink.
I mean, I went all through my yard and just went crazy, like all day long. And you know what? Yeah. It’s hot out. Mm-hmm. In, in Charlotte, North Carolina.
And I ended up having a headache that night and just crashed when I did stop. And, ’cause I was frustrated, Victoria, like I’m wanting to do as much as I was able to do when I was 30.
I’d do that all day long. Yeah. Yeah. Get out there earlier. I’d be chopping wood and cutting a tree down and adjust
Victoria Pendergrass: your expectations.
Chris Gazdik: [01:01:00] Right. So go there a little bit.
Victoria Pendergrass: Victoria, what do you, well, I mean I, and this is, you know how I talk all the time about how we have themes. So in some days at therapy, it just seems like you talk about the same thing.
Yes, that’s true with these client. That’s true. Today it was no exception. I’ve talked about expectations like all day today. Really interesting. Yes. And so, I mean, sometimes we just have to realize that, you know, we might have the potential to do something, but. It’s not really realistic, and so therefore we have to adjust our expectations to something more
Chris Gazdik: realistic, accepting things that we cannot change.
Oh, this
John-Nelson Pope: Saturday Night Live lowered expectations.
Chris Gazdik: Is that a Saturday night I skit? Yeah. I have not seen from the nineties. I have not seen skit. So,
John-Nelson Pope: so no, you, you, you, it’s not that you lower them as much as the fact is just been adjust them or it takes longer. But think about the ride, [01:02:00] and that may be part of it, is that you, because you are able to deepen one’s communication, intimacy increases and so the pleasure of physical intimacy increases as well.
And and doesn’t decrease in fact increases as one gets older at least. Speaking of someone who, who’s much older,
Chris Gazdik: because honestly, John, I think that, that the reality of that is, is that either happens or you crumble. Yeah. I like you said, Victoria, I think mm-hmm. You know, the, the stakes are very real and, and, and I feel people’s panic and, and experience that, right?
Like, you get to a place where you deepen your relationship and you communicate better. ’cause you almost have to, the alternative is you crumble. Mm-hmm. Is that a fair way to put it? No, I think so. Is that sort of what you’re saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Embrace it. So change is good. You have new [01:03:00] opportunities, you’ve developed new understandings, you have empowerment.
No more nonsense that you put up in life. You have maturity and a, a sense of increased life experience. You have wisdom valuing yourself and valuing your wisdom to, to name a few. I was doing a mental checklist on, you know, what, what happens in, in later in life and how we can embrace this and age well with this CLO closing thoughts.
And I have a unique way guys that I want to take us out. Closing thoughts, comments. I think that we’ve done a service to open up a national, I hope so. And worldwide dialogue on menopause. I have not done this show. Well, I’m, I’m just, I’m
John-Nelson Pope: glad that we did. I’m worried that I would be viewed as a misogynist
Chris Gazdik: and I’m not.
I’m as well we’re, we’re men. Yeah. But we could deal with this in therapy. Uhhuh, we can deal with this in conversation. There isn’t any reason why we have to be cut out uhhuh of this as a way to be supportive and encouraging, kind and loving about it. Mm-hmm.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yep. Ask [01:04:00] questions. That’s mine. Don’t, or don’t be afraid to ask questions.
Yeah. Especially women to other women in their life, like older women in their life who have maybe, you know, already gone through this experience.
Chris Gazdik: Don’t be alone. Yeah. If you’re a male,
John-Nelson Pope: Ask questions if you’re ask questions. But if you’re a male, be empathetic. Walk in in your spouse’s or your, your partner’s shoes.
Don’t
Chris Gazdik: slam them for going through something that’s just natural. And then, and it’s not.
John-Nelson Pope: And it’s not about you. It’s not a reflection on you virility
Chris Gazdik: or anything. Right. And I think that’s done honestly. Oftentimes women please hear from a man’s perspective. We don’t know. Like we don’t know. No one told us.
And as much as you don’t know about what’s going on, can you imagine how much your guy doesn’t know? Your dad
John-Nelson Pope: didn’t give this to you [01:05:00] in the talk. Right. Not
Chris Gazdik: a part of the deal. Yeah. So let’s have grace both ways. Mm-hmm. In going through what is a difficult thing. For sure. Okay. Well I wanna take us out. Is cool from our YouTube listener ship Cass, you’re awesome.
And I, I thought it was so cool right in the way that she put it. So this quote takes us out. It’s on the YouTube page. Go check out YouTube and interact with us guys, and this is a case in point of why that’s so cool. So guys John, we’ll see you next week, Victoria. See you as well next week. She says, our society has to change and honor the aging process for men and women.
Honor the experience of living childhood, young adults, adults, seniors, aging seniors, our stages to be talked about. What a beautiful way to put it. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Guys. Take care. Be well. We’ll see you next week.