The title might seem rhetorical, but when you really think about your life, do you have emotional freedom and do you really want it. We look at what that means to have emotional freedom, why it is important, and what barriers you might be running into to get it. Once we know that, we then look at what you can do to start achieving emotional freedom.
Tune in to see Emotional Freedom Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- What is emotional freedom?
- Do you know the serenity prayer and how to really apply it?
- Letting go, man that is tough: power and control issues.
Links referenced during the show:
Emotional Freedom Description – Judith Orloff MD (drjudithorloff.com)
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
Audio Podcast Version Only
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Episode #244 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Through a Therapist’s Eyes on Victoria, what’s the date? Victoria 14th of September. Matt September the 14th. I was testing you, actually. I was like, looking at the calendar over there. That’s my cheat sheet. Victoria You are Victoria with us. How are you today? I’m doing well. Yeah? Yeah. Mr.
John Pope is there. Outstanding
John-Nelson Pope: I am. Alright. Oh, I sound like Kyoto. Gosh.
Chris Gazdik: I love that. Grogu is, is with us in the room. So I am Chris Gastic, the host of Through a Therapist’s Eyes with these bright minds. We talk about everything mental health and substance abuse. This is where you get insights from a panel of therapists in personal time in your home, in your car.
But it is what?
Victoria Pendergrass: Not to render therapeutic services of any
Chris Gazdik: kind Victoria loves to get me on saying that So we’re gonna be talking about emotional freedom tonight, which is a cool concept. I’m kind of looking forward to our [00:01:00] conversations Think about these questions. What is emotional freedom? Do you know the serenity prayer and how to really apply it which I think is a big part of Emotional freedom and then letting go man.
I think that’s a big part of the idea of having emotional freedom. So we are able to say now with great pride, as of last week, we have our primary sponsor, First Horizon Bank. Neal, I really think there should be an S on that thing, man. I was gonna say,
Victoria Pendergrass: you said it right! You know what I’m saying? I
Chris Gazdik: really feel
Victoria Pendergrass: like there should be an S out Last week, last week he kept saying First Horizons. And Evan, our guest, had to keep saying it’s First Horizon.
Chris Gazdik: No, Neil was saying that. He was very humble. He was like, whatever. But but I just, I was thinking about that driving to work today. You know, talking about First Horizons.
Victoria Pendergrass: No, there’s one horizon. No, there’s like
Chris Gazdik: 365. 365 degrees, man. How can there only be one horizon? [00:02:00] Right? You got one in the east, you got one in the west, you got one in the south. Okay, we look at one
Victoria Pendergrass: sky. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: but there’s, like, It’s all around
John-Nelson Pope: there’s a great great movie in and actually novel is called lost horizons
Chris Gazdik: Plural right?
Are you gonna look at the eastern horizon or the western horizon? That’s my question
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay. Well, why don’t you call the person that?
Chris Gazdik: Our sponsor needs to change their name. That’s what I’m saying. No, they are a great bank. They’re a neighborhood bank That’s a small field with a big national bank level to ready to serve you so we’re happy to have them aboard with us the marriage book is still being edited We’re banging through that sucker really enjoying that at this point.
Contact it through therapeuticize. com is a great way to contact us. Listen, this is the human emotional experience, which we do endeavor to figure out together. So let’s, let’s launch also I should say to our music note, Reed Ferguson with the entry is a cool. You should check him out for local shows.
If you’re local, he would love to, to, [00:03:00] to get out to your show. Reidferguson. com, although he’s got a T in the middle of his name. R E I D T ferguson. com So, look Do you guys think about emotional freedom per se? Like, in, in therapy work?
Victoria Pendergrass: I don’t know that I’ve ever actually used the terminology, but I’ve probably danced around the idea of it.
Chris Gazdik: Right. That’s
John-Nelson Pope: for sure. And that’s, that’s something I’m not really familiar with, with the term either, but I also like a lot of the things that that evidently I was reading this little cheat sheet here. Yeah. I have my prep sheet for you. Your prep sheet. You get all kinds of early,
Chris Gazdik: early delivery for you.
John-Nelson Pope: I
Chris Gazdik: like that. Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a really cool concept. I mean, I don’t hear it in our vernacular culturally a whole lot either, but I [00:04:00] feel as though it’s one of the things that people are kind of striving for and really frankly needing a lot and which ultimately is the result of good therapy.
You know, so I don’t think we talk about it a lot, but ultimately, like you said, Victoria, we are really striving in and through to get to that point. And man, how liberating some of the things are that people are dealing with in therapy. You know, those, those termination sessions or, you know, when someone’s been in therapy for this for a while, I mean, what does that like to hear them talk about, but not say the words, emotional freedom?
John-Nelson Pope: I like it when When the clients have improved over a period of time and that they’ve been able to, to deconflict basically in their lives and, and be able to have some resolution or conflict is a cool word.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Is that a word? I made it up.
John-Nelson Pope: You didn’t. You knew. No, no. But, no, I, I think it’s [00:05:00] wonderful that they improve.
Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s victory.
Chris Gazdik: It’s super humbling when you see people in a very different state than when they came Exactly.
Victoria Pendergrass: Right. Or when they, my favorite is even when it’s not a termination session, but just when they talk about a situation and I go, six months ago, you would not have reacted this way.
I do that. Or six months ago, you would not have been a cool cucumber about this. You would have been freaking the F out or something like, and I love and I’m like, you give yourself a pat on the back back for that.
Chris Gazdik: I do that too, because that’s emotional. Yeah, that’s emotional freedom. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I mean, that’s, that’s, I think weeks.
It’s almost like I’m going to use a weird example, but I think it came, John, you kind of said this. You know, what is pornography? We were talking about that on a show on point. It’s kind of like, you know it when you see it, what is emotional freedom? You might struggle. You said, I think you both said you’re not as familiar with the term, but you know, it, you know it when you see it, you know, it was [00:06:00] a humbling, majorly.
for me a couple of years ago, and we’ve all had these experiences and I’ve had them since I think, but you know, I was, I was just hanging out by myself, right? Well, with a group, group of friends and I was by myself at the place. It was an arcade. So we were out a night on a town, you know, Friday or Saturday night, it’s like this arcade place and I’m just walking around the room and somebody looks over at me, he taps me on the shoulder and I’m like, Oh, Hey, Hey, what’s up?
He’s like, Hey, I don’t know if you remember me, but. I am so and so and he was a probably 22 year old young man or whatnot whatnot. He’s like, hey I worked with you like several few years ago. I just I just wanted to tell you man you you really helped me You really really helped me. I was like, yeah, all right.
You just you just see on YouTube John’s face It’s just it’s humbling and humbling it’s humbling to be like, you know, bam like dude that made an impact indelible on his life It’s an, and it’s free on, it’s, it’s emotional freedom.
Victoria Pendergrass: It fights my [00:07:00] imposter
Chris Gazdik: syndrome. Indeed.
John-Nelson Pope: I was just thinking that I had a, a a student that had some issues and this was, he was studying to be a counselor.
I mean, it was, and he had some issues with hygiene and yeah, we all do. We all do. And that didn’t necessarily cause him not to be qualified as a, as a counselor, but he was, he was having issues with depression. Yeah. With depression. Yeah.
And I didn’t fix them because I’m not, that wasn’t my role or anything like as a, as a therapist or as an academician, you know, as a professor.
But to believe in him, to encourage him, to have him go to therapy and I get this letter from him after about six years. Yeah. Yeah. A letter. A letter. Yeah. Thanking you. [00:08:00] Thanking me. Yeah, that’s thanking the school, thanking the other professors. Thank you.
Chris Gazdik: Anybody out there that works with people can be very stressful and it’s very difficult.
I didn’t plan this in our content, but it’s cool to share your all’s experiences. If you work with people, nursing, first responding, you know, teaching, certainly in the human services field, keep a feel good files, what I call it. I got a file in there from a lady that all the way back when I began in the crisis work.
We’ve talked about this before. I always highlight that one because that’s, of all the things I’ve gotten, One, it was ironic that the company never gave it to me. I had to find it in my employee file. What is this? Oh, yes. That’s here. Okay. Well, that’d be nice to know. But powerful,
Victoria Pendergrass: powerful. You’re not the only one.
I had a professor in grad school who said the same thing to keep. I can’t remember if she called it a feel good file, but I’m sure it was. I’m sure they had a better name. Yeah, but it was basically the same thing. Have a file. That you can reach into [00:09:00] and that contains things that help you feel good about yourself when you’re feeling kind of low.
Chris Gazdik: So just any largest success model Craig and I have talked about the jar of success you know, I’ve got the right up there on the top shelf a Tomb of the unknown that keeps things in there that people can leave here’s Strategies and things like that that make a big difference in in how you feel and what you’re aware of so it’s a little unplanned emotional freedom tool.
So Judith Orloff, I thought was cool. I came across what her words were to describe this, John. So emotional freedom is a roadmap for those who are stressed out, discouraged or overwhelmed, as well as for those who are in good emotional place, but want to feel even better. To turn away from negativity, react constructively, and seize command of any situation.
Complete emotional freedom is in your grasp. I thought that was a pretty good encapsulation.
John-Nelson Pope: Excellent. So, Frozen. Let it go. Let it [00:10:00] go.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, we’ll definitely talk about letting stuff go. You know, you
Victoria Pendergrass: watched Frozen?
Chris Gazdik: Oh, I didn’t catch the reference the movie frozen got you impressive I’m, so proud of
John-Nelson Pope: you.
Thank you
Chris Gazdik: Why can’t he can’t watch cartoons because his kids are 40 years old No,
Victoria Pendergrass: that’s not why I
Chris Gazdik: just I have a kid that’s 40 years old. I know I know I was like serious ChatGPT, the amazing place of ChatGPT. Just curious what they would have said. Emotional freedom is a state of being in which individuals have a healthy and balanced relationship with their emotions.
Relationship with their emotions. That’s cool. I thought that was a pretty good phrase. It involves the ability to recognize, understand, and manage one’s emotions effectively without being overwhelmed or controlled by them. Hear, hear for ChatFreakingGPT, huh? I think they,
John-Nelson Pope: they… That’s a wonderful definition.
I love [00:11:00] relationship. Right. Because emotions, that’s saying that you can have a whole variety of emotions. And some of them are going to be hard. Difficult
Chris Gazdik: and, and can’t that still embody being free from being overwhelmed or controlled by them? Just think about that. People are terrified to come to therapy.
They really are, I find. Because then I’m going to have to face my emotions, deal with myself, experience what I’m experiencing, and oh my god, as my friend likes to say, that’s like taking my finger and repeatedly jabbing myself in
the eyeball. Like, why would I do that? It’s incredibly intimidating unless you’ve developed that ability, right?
Like that’s a big deal. I feel like John, like having that ability to re have a relationship in and out, whether it’s positive emotions or those ones that hurt too.
John-Nelson Pope: So that that’s a concept and I’m going to, I’m going to put a little religious. Spin, [00:12:00] spin on it, but the, the word for peace is Shalom in Hebrew and peace isn’t the absence of conflict.
Peace is to be able to live with, with it both good and bad and have a sense that of wholeness. Right. Yeah. And I’m wondering if that might be emotional freedom. I
Chris Gazdik: think the parallels, you know, we had the pastor here, you know, talking, you know, that was an awesome show with Pastor Ray. There was a lot of parallels between those teachings, the belief systems and mental health because yeah.
That’s that’s emotional freedom. I mean, you know, whatever your creed is, I think that often the result ultimately is guidance on arriving at this place, just like therapy being free from not absent of free from. The, the, the control and the overwhelm and the anxiety and the fear [00:13:00] and the dismay and all of the, that we associate sometimes being
John-Nelson Pope: emotional.
So it’s radical self acceptance to
Chris Gazdik: love the term.
John-Nelson Pope: Go further. Okay. Well, radicals, again, going to the term Shalom is wholeness. And I think radical self acceptance is, is a wholeness that you can look into yourself and you were saying when it’s like getting poked in the eye with, with therapy, well, it’s to be able to stare and say, okay.
Well, maybe I am getting poked in the eye, but it’s not that bad, and it, what I have imagined it to be is, is, it, that imagination is a lot worse than what reality is.
Chris Gazdik: That’s an interesting piece. As I’m listening to you, I’m thinking, John, people, I know this sounds crazy, but I, I think both of you will easily agree, a lot of times people don’t know what they’re feeling.
Heck no! Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: Sometimes I don’t even know what I’m feeling. I
Chris Gazdik: was just, you took my [00:14:00] thunder. You know, I mean, don’t, don’t put us on a pedestal. I mean, half the time I’m sitting here, if you ask me how you feel right now, I have to really sit there and think and be mindful and be like, I don’t know, I was just experiencing the day.
Sometimes it’s shitty, sometimes it’s good. You know, but yeah, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re, you don’t know. And what do we know about something that you don’t really know about? You’re fearful. You’re locked in it when you don’t even know it, that it’s there. And so, I, I love the idea of shalom and radical acceptance.
It’s in DBT therapy as well, right? You know, the concept. And that’s, that’s on our, that was in my brainstorm kind of as well, you know, self acceptance. Okay. It’s almost a requirement to be able to be emotionally free. So why do we, why do we care? Why do we care, Chris? Why do we care Victoria? Victoria, do you care about emotion, being emotionally free?
It’s a corny term, right? Who cares about that anyway?
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, I would say so. It’s [00:15:00] even just looking at the word freedom, like you want to be free of things that hold you down. And so, you know, if you’re not emotionally free, I don’t have emotional freedom. I feel like it’s just adds to the list of things that potentially.
Hold you back.
Chris Gazdik: The emotional realm can be full of turmoil, distress, fear, pain. Like, when you’re not able to handle these things or believe and accept them, John, as you just highlighted for us from the religious perspective, man, it’s terrifying. It’s terrifying and, and, and I do believe to a large extent people are terrified of the emotional realm, right?
Yes. You have, you have a thought. I could, your face is… Well, I’m just saying,
Victoria Pendergrass: I think it goes back to people are afraid to own up to how they’re really [00:16:00] feeling. Right. And they’re scared that once they say it, because I have conversations about this all the time in therapy, once you say it, it makes it real.
Yes. And so, if I don’t admit that I’m scared, if I don’t admit that I’m ashamed, if I don’t admit that I’m embarrassed, Right. then… I’m not technically really feeling those things, but in order to, I feel like in order to get to that emotional freedom, like we said, you have to be able to admit that I’m feeling scared, embarrassed, ashamed, whatever the feeling may
Chris Gazdik: be.
Well, that’s a big teaching moment. Can’t do it almost without it. Can you? Yeah. Went
John-Nelson Pope: on Outward Bound many years ago and Oh, that’s good stuff. Yeah, it is. It really is. And I did that before I went into the Navy. So we’re talking back in the dark Ages, but went
Chris Gazdik: to the And what is Outward Bound?
Outward
John-Nelson Pope: Bound is a, is a, a quick and dirty, basically [00:17:00] is it developed after the second World War because a lot of. People were dying at sea that they didn’t know how to survive. And part of that was that they despaired and they gave up hope. Outward Bound then was, so it started out with the British by, I’m not sure who, who he was, but anyway, the, the, the point is that it really challenges you physically.
And they, they go. You can go to the Everglades or the Bahamas or you can go to the Rocky Mountains or you can go to the mountains of North Carolina. You learn rock climbing West, yeah. Yeah. There’s a
Chris Gazdik: lot of programs in West Virginia. A lot, a lot
John-Nelson Pope: of programs in West Virginia. And basically… Is it like a troubled
Victoria Pendergrass: teens thing?
It
John-Nelson Pope: can be. It can be. Or it can be a troubled young adult, like I was, and I wasn’t troubled, but, well, yeah, I was. Some people
Victoria Pendergrass: would say that that would make a cult.
John-Nelson Pope: No, it is not. It’s a week long, and it can actually last up to [00:18:00] 30 days.
Chris Gazdik: Kind of like a ropes course out. Outdoor learning experiential
John-Nelson Pope: thing.
But I did that, and at the very end, and I learned how to rappel, and I learned how to, to carry a pack. And we, we packed it in, we packed it out, we carried our food. All nine year yards, I, we did whitewater canoeing, and that was scary. And I kept tipping over the canoe and it was in the beginning of April and it snowed that day.
Cold! So it was very cold. I was going to say, you got, you got cold. But at the end, we have one last thing and that’s the ropes course. And we’re up 70 feet high. And we have to get on what is called the butt bucket and you, you get into that and you have to take a leap of faith basically, and you get in that and you go down and you ride it.[00:19:00]
And there were people that were afraid even after that week of being challenged beyond Any, you know, you’re, you’re up in the mountains and you only get about three or four hours of sleep at night and it’s really cold and it’s
Chris Gazdik: icy and I love that stuff, not the old stuff, but I love all the other stuff
John-Nelson Pope: and And the only thing I could say was when I got on this thing and I was like scared of heights and all of that, I said, Oh, S, you know, just as, as loud as I could.
And I went and I did something I didn’t think I could do. And that was looking in, you know, when I thought I couldn’t do it anymore or anything like that. I could, and once I faced that, I could, and I’m sorry, you know, you can, yeah, you know,
Chris Gazdik: you can, yeah, you know, it’s, it’s beautiful, thank you for sharing that, John, because I think that those types of experiences are really pow
a four X [00:20:00] or, you know, Neil, I think I think our producer here is he’s into like, you know rucksacking and these very difficult physical challenges that when you, you, you like literally feel like you can’t do them and then you can do like four times what you thought you ever could do.
Like that’s a physical fact. Like if you can run 10 miles, that means you can run 40. That’s crazy, right? But that’s, that’s the true is, I mean, that it’s true. It’s true. Yeah. And then when you faced with the stress and the turmoil, think about it, we may be working on an issue in therapy of depression and you get into breaking down to, to, to Victoria, your point of, of true honesty and being genuine about that and getting through that.
We have just helped that person deal with their marriage. We have helped that person dealing with their parenting distress, their loss of their grandmother, as well as any other thing that has emotional challenge. Because that’s what we’re trying to get [00:21:00] to. You can handle your emotions. You don’t need to be overwhelmed with them.
This is a world that you can kind of go in, you can ride the butt bucket 70 feet up in the air.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah, exactly. Right. Well, and that’s when AIDS was was starting, HIV was and AIDS was really starting to be found out and studied. And there was a lot of fear and one of the, the, one of the people that was a fellow on the, she was.
She was actually a nurse, an ICU nurse in New York, which was the dead center of, of where HIV was really developing that didn’t know a lot about it or anything like that. And she was burning out and she went there to find herself again and renew. Wow.
Chris Gazdik: Right. Yeah. So. Oh, that’s an interesting concept. I didn’t plan or think about.
That’s why these conversations are cool. Once you attain emotional freedom… Do you keep it? Oh. [00:22:00] Maybe not. Right?
Victoria Pendergrass: I would say, and correct me if you disagree, that it might be in the sense… You could look at it in the sense of like an alcoholic, is that once you become sober, you have to like, practice it.
You still have to actively, yeah, you have to actively maintain
Chris Gazdik: it. Yeah, I don’t think it’s a one and done deal. You know, it, it is something that you, you, you get to, you get into, you take, you know, you step back, you become fearful again, you move forward again, you make decisions. Great progress. Like losing weight.
It’s well, there you go.
Victoria Pendergrass: Like once you lose weight, you don’t get to eat all the cheeseburgers that you want to, and then not continue to work out or whatever you were doing as exercise, you have to continue to keep up. Your physical activity so that you can eat all the cheeseburgers that you want to.
Now I will
Chris Gazdik: say this. Or what not. When you move through, like John you’re talking about a life [00:23:00] changing outward bound experience. There is in, in levels of emotional freedom I would submit to you if you think about it that way. Yeah. You, you, you, you raise your, your basement. Right. Your baseline, yeah. Your baseline is, is, is higher.
In, in the level of emotional freedom that you have. Simply because when you know you did something, you know you always did. It never goes away, so. Well, okay,
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah. that. Like I’ve been lifting, right? Working out. Yeah. I lifted, deadlifted 105 pounds yesterday. Oh, yes! Yeah. Love that. But, so that’s now Good for you.
So now, if I, like, if I lift just a, the 45 pound bar, it’s like super easy for me now. Right. You know? And so it, but as I gain weight with my squats and with a deadlifts and all that stuff, then my baseline go like my, like I can do more. So then I just build on top of that building. So that’s kind of
Chris Gazdik: what you’re saying.
Well, a little bit different. I’m saying that [00:24:00] actually with, with weight lifting exercise and weight, you can always go lower than you were before. So it’s a little bit missing. I’m actually, I’m actually saying like you can always lift, you know, 70 pounds. Right. When you go to a certain point, but
Victoria Pendergrass: that’s not so actually.
Sorry. I
Chris Gazdik: misunderstood. Does that make sense? Well, we’re pretty close. Yeah. Does that make sense? What I’m suggesting? And I think that’s, I think it’s true. I think that’s listen to the realities of this or this affects so much the relationships that you have in real life. Become enhanced. You, you’re, you realize that your levels of stress are reduced, you, you, you’re, you gain a, a level of control over your fight and flight systems, biologically, your fear factor, you, you make better decisions, you increase the ability to communicate with others.
I mean, how am I doing so far, Victoria? Is this, is this some of why we care? Yeah. It’s powerful stuff.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. Powerful stuff. I mean, we don’t want to [00:25:00] be weighed down. By the things that we don’t understand are the things that we don’t. Get. Right. So, when you don’t understand something, what do you do? You learn more about it.
Chris Gazdik: Increased happiness. Like, generally, for real, when you’re emotionally free. Better conflict resolution. You can deal with these problems, John, like you were saying. Doesn’t mean everything’s always hunky dory and no conflict. You’re in the okay zone. But you can deal with it. You’re in the okay zone. What’s the okay zone?
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay, well, have you ever heard of the CRAM, the Community Resiliency Model? Casey can teach it, so. I, no, I do not. Well, they teach this res long story short, they teach this resiliency scale, where you have They? It
Chris Gazdik: sounds like you’re teaching us now. Where you So, they is
Victoria Pendergrass: you, girl. So, you have a high zone, an okay zone, and a low zone.
High zone tends to be… associated with anger. Low zone tends to be associated with sadness, depression. But your okay zone is where your
resiliency is, [00:26:00] where something can happen to you and you can continue to on throughout your day without it affecting your day. But occasionally things happen to us that bump us out of our K zone into either the high zone or the low zone. And we get stuck there because it’s too much for us to handle.
And so then we have to utilize Coping skills, find ways to calm ourselves down, things like that. Right. But when you’re in your okay zone, you can kind of go up and down within the okay zone when things happen to you, and it doesn’t affect your day. You’re able to continue
Chris Gazdik: on. All of these things that I’m mentioning.
Throughout your day. Yeah. They make it, it’s a big deal. I
John-Nelson Pope: think people that are, let’s say there’s a lot of a chronic illness in a family. For example, why do some families sunder, why do they rip apart during that time where there’s an abandonment of, because somebody’s sick and has been sick for a long, long time.
COVID. COVID. Right? Yeah, exactly. Well, there’s the resiliency that I think. [00:27:00] What you were talking about, Victoria, is that you learn strategies on how to, to not go into where you get depressed and you surrender completely to, to the depression or you get stuck, get stuck, or you get stuck in the anger.
And so instead you are able to. To reconnoiter and kind of figure out where you are. And, and the next time that this happens, you’re going to, you’re going to have a little better preparation or if
Chris Gazdik: there’s a delivery, a little bit better conflict resolution, right? Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, you must’ve seen the next one on my brainstorm was seriously better physical health.
I mean, when you’re in this. This comfort zone, this okay zone when you’re in that space that you’re describing, john. I mean, literally your physical health improves.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, it’s the whole cycle of when you eat better, you feel better, you work out more, which makes you eat better, which makes you feel better, which makes you work out, catch the [00:28:00] fire baby.
And then once you, you just got to find a way to get in the cycle. But once you get in it. Right. I mean, I always enjoy going to the gym. Sometimes I dread it and I cuss a lot. I’ve seen the look on your face because I say Chris goes to the same gym as me. He sees me sometimes and I’m just like,
Chris Gazdik: F this. But you know, I’m starting to enjoy it even more too.
But
Victoria Pendergrass: when I go home, I’m thankful that I went. Always. Although I more work out so that I can eat McDonald’s, but you know You know, I was I was just help me feel better
John-Nelson Pope: about myself One of the things that when I go to the gym, and I’ve been going to the gym Regularly since I know you’re my hero. Yeah Well, you’re you in that way?
Well, thank you very much. You’re welcome. So thank you very much. Well, but I’ll get somebody on, on, let’s say the Stairmaster machine or something like that. And [00:29:00] they tend to be somewhat heavier. Sometimes they get on the machine and they’ll put it up to like 10 or something like that. And they’ll do it on the Stairmaster.
And you say, No, you got to start at a much lower level, like a one or two and you start to do that. And I think that’s part of resiliency is that you, that you, you find, like you said, the base and then you build up and you, you raise that base higher
Chris Gazdik: and higher. And you’re making a metaphor right now, which is excellent to where what I hear you teaching us in talking about is like, wow, when you’re dealing with emotional freedom, that might feel overwhelming.
Let’s just deal with a little bit
John-Nelson Pope: of emotion. Exactly. One. Literally, and one step at a time on the Stairmaster, one step of a time, an emotional freedom.
Chris Gazdik: Now, I’m gonna, I’m gonna say two words, and I hope [00:30:00] you’re as disgusted with these two words as I get frustrated with these two corny words, but you’ll know them when I say them.
Are you as frustrated with these two words as I am? Baby steps, John. Baby steps. Yes. That’s right. That drives me nuts, though.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah, that’s a real 80s Yes, it is. What about
Chris Gazdik: Bob? Oh, absolutely. I love that movie. That was terrifying to me as a therapist at the time, yes. Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: He crossed so many boundaries. Oh, my God.
I
Chris Gazdik: love that movie. Have you seen it? Yeah. It’s an awesome movie. It’s creepy, though. From a therapist perspective, this seriously creeps me out a little bit. I haven’t watched that movie for a long time.
John-Nelson Pope: You’d only get stalked.
Chris Gazdik: Really all around life is better. You know, from the many storms that you will face in this life, there isn’t any naivete that I want anyone to hang on to.
Storms definitely come and go. You will be in some real raucous storms. But you can still be emotionally free in those times. I have an all [00:31:00] time quote. That I love from Winston Churchill and it has been really near and dear to my heart for a little while now and that is simply like you know, when you’re going through hell, you just keep going.
Never give up. Right. That’s another one of his yeah, you know, he he had he has some some indelible phrases because they were going through some seriously difficult times in world war ii there when when winston was was was oh boy There’s some good movies about his time look him up I would say winston churchill was emotionally free At least in the way that he led because that was a terrifying time.
So if you’re going through hell keep going There’s a lot of barriers here that we have. I would say so. I think we need to understand the barriers that life people experience so that so that we can identify those and attack those barriers. What did you say? I said life. Life is a barrier. Life is a [00:32:00] barrier.
Oh, no.
John-Nelson Pope: Life is a highway. Life is a highway. All day long.
Chris Gazdik: I joined you in singing, Gay. I did it. I did it.
John-Nelson Pope: See, you rose. You raised the level.
Chris Gazdik: I did. I’m emotionally free. Emotionally free. What are the things that you think really hold people back in therapy? The big T. Oh, what’s that? Trauma. Trauma. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. Trauma. Trauma. Unresolved trauma.
Chris Gazdik: Go further with that, because I think that’s.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, I mean, if you have resolved trauma, then that means you’re able, you’ve been able to deal with it and move past your trauma. But if it’s unresolved, it’s just kind of festering. It’s just kind of like sitting there waiting to explode.
And so there’s, I mean, it’s just, it goes back to the. Yeah. Losing weight or getting healthy. [00:33:00] I can’t eat five cheeseburgers a day and not work out. And then expect to wake up 20 pounds lighter the next day. Like, that’s just not gonna happen. That’s just physically impossible.
Chris Gazdik: Let’s come back to that for a minute.
Because I totally agree with you. Let’s just, let’s just think out loud for a moment, like sitting in a therapy session with people. What are, what are some of the things that really, you know, knock people back? I, I had a little brainstorm that I prepared, but I, cause I just, you know, in initial sessions or early on in a therapy relationship, like, you know.
Would you say
Victoria Pendergrass: honesty would be one? Or lack of honesty. Go there.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, for sure.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, I mean, I’m just saying if you’re a client, as a client, if you’re not upfront and honest about your experiences, your emotions, your feelings, like your past traumas, your all, all that stuff, then me as a therapist, I [00:34:00] can’t adequately Help
Chris Gazdik: you or even against what, what, what we’re able to do or not able to do.
I’m, I’m listening to
Victoria Pendergrass: you, Victoria, with yourself.
Chris Gazdik: Well, I’m listening to you and I think you’re, you’re dead on in, in, in what you’re making me think about is though the times that people have said, listen I haven’t told anybody this. Yeah. Right. I love
Victoria Pendergrass: when they say that, right?
Chris Gazdik: But, but that is such an honor. That is such a precious moment. That is, that is a very precious
Victoria Pendergrass: moment. Another humbling experience that they trust you enough Hugely humble To say, hey, I’m about to tell you something that I’ve literally never told anybody in my life.
Chris Gazdik: How much of a barrier to emotional freedom prior to that moment has that been?
That’s my point. Right? It’s tremendously suffocating when you’ve gone through something, or you’ve experienced something, and not only do you not allow yourself to think about it, but you haven’t [00:35:00] told anyone. That’s, that’s a huge, and it goes along with drama. Well, I mean, because
Victoria Pendergrass: that’s a burden to carry.
If I’m, if, say I’ve been married for 40 years, and I come to therapy and I say, this is something that not even my husband knows. I have that happen often. You’re like, I mean, that is a lot to keep to keep a quote unquote secret like that is so heavy burden,
Chris Gazdik: you know, the skeletons in the
Victoria Pendergrass: closet one, depending on the severity and level of what they’ve been holding on to without telling anyone and
Chris Gazdik: acting out on by the way, or
Victoria Pendergrass: acting out on as well.
Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: I mean, Yeah, it’s a big deal. You know, what else comes John to your mind initial session? Yeah
John-Nelson Pope: No, I was just listening. No, I want to listen
Victoria Pendergrass: to
Chris Gazdik: you
John-Nelson Pope: well, I I think I think I also have that are so anxious that [00:36:00] they keep talking, but they don’t stop the, you know, there’s a always a, something where therapists will talk too much, but there’s also clients who talk too much and they.
They talk so much because they’re afraid that they will listen to what they’re feeling or actually experience that and the avoidance and they’re avoiding their, their deep emotions and their feelings, right? And so they have to interject. I have I have one client and I love this person tremendously as a, as a client.
But it’s always, you can’t, you can’t say stop. We need to talk about this. You, this, you centered on this. How do we go deeper? And
Chris Gazdik: then they just ready to move on. You know, the guy at work. Yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: exactly. You think it also might be. Which you might have already said this, is because they’re afraid of what, if they stop talking, what you [00:37:00] might have to say to what they’ve
John-Nelson Pope: said.
That, that’s a possibility.
Chris Gazdik: Well, yeah, I think that goes into the avoidance, right? Avoidance. Okay, yeah, well, yeah. That’s, that, for various reasons, you know, I’m gonna move on because I don’t want to, again, be controlled, be overwhelmed. Oh, they, they
John-Nelson Pope: might think that, well, he might not like me if I really got into
Chris Gazdik: this.
Now that’s a different thing. Yeah. I was just a second before you said that. I was thinking, wait a minute. What about judgment? Yeah. Being judged or persecuted in some way for something that you’re feeling or experiencing. I have to remind
Victoria Pendergrass: my clients quite frequently that there is no such thing as TMI.
Right. In my, in my office. Right. You can talk a literally about anything under the sun and I will. 99 percent of the time, keep my composure.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, how liberating is it to feel the experience, which is what’s so powerful about emotion? Like, I don’t know [00:38:00] that therapists, we really understand how powerful the reality of it is when someone really gets close to the idea that I can say anything that’s on my mind without…
Retribution.
John-Nelson Pope: Now that that’s important for the therapist to be genuine, authentic and transparent, right? And so in other words, the that that person that you’re just as transparent as you could be to allow and give permission to the client to be as open.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. And sometimes you can see it in the clients before they say something, they’ll say things like, well, I know you probably don’t want to hear this, or you probably, this is probably too much information or this is probably, I mean, I don’t know about y’all, I mean, I talk about bowel movements, I talk about sex life, I talk
Chris Gazdik: about, I always catch that Victoria and I stop right there for sure.
Yeah. Are you talking about your bowel movement? No.
Victoria Pendergrass: I don’t think they want to hear that. But [00:39:00] I
Chris Gazdik: mean, pretty loose today, but that’s, it was a joke. That’s a, did I
John-Nelson Pope: go too far? I’m getting stuck
Victoria Pendergrass: on that. I mean, I think that some people don’t realize that. Like, it’s my job, or I consider it my job to be that safe space for you, to where I can, if, and if I’m the only person in your life that you feel that way with, then I will be that person.
It’s part of what the offer,
Chris Gazdik: the service
Victoria Pendergrass: offer is. Like, and I, I hate, and I use that very, Strongly bec
me and they are telling me about their experiences with prior therapists in which they felt judged and that’s why they left or whatever.
They felt their therapist made some snide comment about something that they did, whether it’s [00:40:00] partaking in a certain drug or their extracurricular activities or their choice of a job and then gender or gender or anything. And then, so then I feel like I have to do extra to make sure that they feel.
safe and that they can talk
Chris Gazdik: about. Yeah, but you’re so your personality is so geared with that. Victoria. I’m sure that people tell me all your things that that’s part of what makes you good at what you what you do. Yeah, I mean, that is a compliment, really. And it’s such an important part of what we what we do.
What was my brainstorming? They were doing pretty good and getting it, but we got to move on. Unresolved trauma. Oh yeah, you hit the first one on my brainstorm, Victoria. Lack of emotional learning. Oh yeah, that’s, that’s probably worth a pretty good mention. Honestly, when you haven’t learned how to manage emotion, when you haven’t been taught how to do this, when you don’t have a model, you’re screwed.
John-Nelson Pope: Emotional
Chris Gazdik: intelligence. You gotta be
John-Nelson Pope: taught. You gotta be taught. It’s, it’s taught [00:41:00] rather than caught. Oh, I like that. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: You know, it’s funny, real quick. Oh, we gotta move on, but it’s a cool story. I remember, I’ll try to be brief with this. Like, my little kid was, was playing us out all day. Aaron was outside, and he come in, he was just grumpy and whiny and just crabby and just losing his mind.
And of course I knew what was going on, but he didn’t. I’m like, well, come on, buddy, we’re gonna have some spaghetti. He’s like, I don’t want spaghetti! I’m like, well, that was his favorite food. I’m like, no, just come on, sit down here and just, you know, he’s just all grumpy. Pulls his chair up, he puts his, throws his spoon down.
I’m like, Hey buddy, what do you, what do you notice that you, you’re feeling like? He’s like, I don’t know, I’m fine, nothing. I’m like, okay, well, do you, do you notice anything in your tummy and whatever? And he’s like, no, no, no, no,
like, do you, do you, is your stomach grumbling? Are you, you know, do you think you’re maybe hungry?
Yeah, yeah, I’m hungry. We have some spaghetti and he did. And, and I said, well, how do you feel now? And it was like, you know, and I taught him that he was. You know, hungry, put a word, put words on the fact that he was angry [00:42:00] and that he could take care of that problem by eating. Now that sounds simple.
Granted, he was four or five years old at the time, but he didn’t know that John. It’s
John-Nelson Pope: a wonderful lesson. He didn’t know. Yeah. Right? But there’s a lot of people that grow up that don’t know how to do that. They’re not
Chris Gazdik: taught. They’re not taught. It’s, it, it really is. Or even worse, there’s heavy, heavy criticism or shame based feelings or substance abuse families with neglect.
I mean, there’s, oh, there’s just, you, you, you’re, it is, it is such a disadvantage and you are not emotionally free and it’s, it’s, it’s tough.
Victoria Pendergrass: Taylor Nolan from the bachelor. Franchise. Oh boy. She’s a therapist. Okay. But she talks a lot. I follow her on all the things, but she talks a lot. She’s very famous from her seat when she was on the bachelor about how she always talked about important emotional intelligence, but even as a therapist, that’s something that she really.
Value about like is like the importance of it. [00:43:00] It’s
Chris Gazdik: crucial. Yeah, you know, it’s crucial and and and and was she a contestant or just
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah She was looking I mean she was she was on The Bachelor. So she wasn’t
Chris Gazdik: she was one of the ladies trying to get the guy Like
Victoria Pendergrass: years ago, but I mean she’s really good at her job too.
So she’s based out of like Seattle, I think
Chris Gazdik: Clinical diagnosis is an honorable mention. Honestly, when somebody has a biological reality going on, that will act as a barrier. And we need to attack that and deal with that negative thought patterns. And then I’ll just say fears, like all sorts of fears are very, very powerful.
John-Nelson Pope: I was, I was thinking about this a little bit as you were talking earlier, but this kind of goes in this area too, is that sometimes when working with somebody that is diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, there’s a sense of.
Chris Gazdik: We were talking about that earlier today, that’s why she’s giggling.
John-Nelson Pope: [00:44:00] That sense of there’s no, they’re there sometimes, or at least that person perceives himself or herself as not having a, they, they have, they have to feel that emptiness up poor sense of self, sense of self. And so there’s no emotional freedom at all because they feel that there’s, they’re a ghost vapor.
Chris Gazdik: And one of the most painful things that you can experience is the perception or the experience of being invisible. It’s the worst. Oh man. It’s, it’s the
Victoria Pendergrass: war. I mean, oh yeah. I would have to agree with that. That is an awful
Chris Gazdik: feeling. Yeah, I learned that at a conference years ago and we were all stumped when this lady asked the question, What’s the most painful thing you can experience?
And you’re right, John, with that particular, which is a biological reality. I actually suspect hormones in that. That’s a whole
John-Nelson Pope: rabbit hole there. And that’s why you might see it more in…
Chris Gazdik: Right. In females? Females. You can say it, John. Yes.[00:45:00] Maybe not. Just? I think dudes very much as well, for sure. Well, dudes
John-Nelson Pope: could be that, but then the obverse of that would be for dudes, what, narcissism?
Chris Gazdik: More so? Well, that’s a, boy, there’s a good show topic. Narcissism versus borderline personality disorder. The dark cluster? I think it sucks that we put men in narcissistic categories and women in borderline. I don’t know that that’s… That’s really true and accurate. I
Victoria Pendergrass: could probably name five women narcissists.
Chris Gazdik: No,
John-Nelson Pope: I agree. I agree. That’s
Chris Gazdik: no, I, and let me be clear for our audience. I wasn’t saying you, but I think generally we do fall into that trap.
Victoria Pendergrass: Let’s put that to the
John-Nelson Pope: side. I’m just going to be very angry with you now, Chris, for, because you have put me in my place. I’m so sorry.
Chris Gazdik: It’s okay. Victoria, help us. Let’s move on then.
what’s next? ?
John-Nelson Pope: No, I think that that’s room [00:46:00] for discussion, but
Chris Gazdik: I It is. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. We should totally have a episode on
Chris Gazdik: that. Yeah. ’cause that that’s a whole, that’s a whole thing. Alright, let’s just some basics. I mean, let’s not spend much time on this because I think there are other powerful. things to understand as a part of emotional freedom, but you’re basically dealing with emotions.
You’re learning how to deal with emotions. My quick brainstorm was, you know, having emotional awareness and management. You hear mindfulness all the time. Self care. I call it the cornerstone of mental health, you know, coping skills with stress, Victoria, that you mentioned that healthy boundary setting, super important, positive life supports, family.
Friends, religious culture around you
John-Nelson Pope: and serenity
Chris Gazdik: prayer. God grant me a serenity to accept the things I cannot change the courage to change the things that I can and the wisdom to know the difference. Do you know how many times I quote that in sessions? I give
John-Nelson Pope: that out all the
Victoria Pendergrass: time. I’m honestly surprised that it’s not written on your walls.
Probably should be. Yeah, you’re [00:47:00] in some nice calligraphy or
Chris Gazdik: something.
John-Nelson Pope: My first pastoral counseling class, 40 some years ago, we had that. Okay, yeah. Serenity prayer, Reinhold Niebuhr. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: so. It’s a powerful, powerful reality, which I think emotional freedom is written all over that.
John-Nelson Pope: And to know the difference.
Chris Gazdik: You gotta have that’s the key part of the wisdom, you know, like that’s emotional freedom
John-Nelson Pope: there.
Chris Gazdik: That’s the emotional freedom That’s a know which one is which how many times are we trying to control things? We can’t control and how many times are we failing to do something that we can do
John-Nelson Pope: when you’re doing couples counseling both of you guys You, you see that there’s the control, and they’re going back and forth, and we talk about engulfment and all that, but it’s, and distancing, but there’s that need for control, and You have to somebody has to be on top.
It’s
Chris Gazdik: a [00:48:00] powerful struggle Yeah that that people get into, you know for sure so, you know real quick anything else That’s glaring in your
minds that we read out. I mean, it’s basically managing emotion. We can make a long I just have another quote,
Victoria Pendergrass: but okay hit it Okay, see I’m like Casey. I love Hamilton Okay.
And in there, Aaron Burr makes this, sings a song where he quotes I am the one thing in life I can’t control. I am inimitable. I am an original. I’m not falling behind or running late. I’m just standing, I’m not standing still. I’m lying in wait. Nice. And I love that. I feel like that kind of embodies, like,
Chris Gazdik: emotional freedom, too.
I can see emotional freedom being all around swimming in that, for sure. Say it, say it one more time.
Victoria Pendergrass: I’m the one thing in life I can control. I am inimitable. I am an original. I’m not falling behind or running late. I’m not standing still. I am lying in wait.
Chris Gazdik: That is awesome. Aaron Burr. There’s these [00:49:00] powerful, powerful guidances that we can get.
And, and, and if you allow any one of those to, to, to be a focus point, to meditate on it, to allow it to sort of just swim around in your heart and in your spirit, you, you can do a lot of amazing and powerful things if you live that out, just like if you live the serenity prayer out. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a great, I was going to say tool, it’s a, it’s a wonderful orientation to live under, right?
Okay, let’s do a, let’s do a segment here with just concepts that go into this, this quest. I, I said it in the original questions, right? What is emotional freedom? I think you get that. We just talked about the serenity prayer, which I happen to believe to be one of the most important tools in emotional freedom.
Let’s get to the idea of what a boy can, John, can you have emotional freedom if you don’t have ability to let go of stuff? [00:50:00]
John-Nelson Pope: Absolutely not. I think you have to have the ability to forgive. I would say that 90 percent of the issues that I deal with with my clients is the past and not being able to let go of it, not being able to forgive.
Ninety
Chris Gazdik: percent. That’s a big number. Well,
John-Nelson Pope: that’s a John Pope right out of the
Chris Gazdik: air number. Well, but that’s certainly not
John-Nelson Pope: twenty percent. Yeah, it’s not twenty percent. It’s most of it. Well, and
Victoria Pendergrass: it’s not saying that you have to forget, but if you can
John-Nelson Pope: forgive. Yeah, but As long as you don’t forgive, and that is forgive the situation, forgive what’s happened is that you, you’re still stuck in the past and you’re stuck in the past memories.
And we know that there’s, I’m going to be a little frank here, some politicians that just don’t let go of the past. Oh God, let go. And they want revenge and all of that. And you [00:51:00] let It
Chris Gazdik: go honestly, most politicians, most politicians, honestly, yeah, and live that way.
John-Nelson Pope: And I think that can be detrimental for for living spirit for the nation, you know,
Chris Gazdik: on a big level, especially if you’re
Victoria Pendergrass: a person in power.
Yes.
John-Nelson Pope: There’s a great book that was written. I, and I think it might’ve been Duma, I might’ve been wrong on that, but it was The Count Monte Crito. You familiar
Chris Gazdik: with that? I’m, I, I know the title. Yeah, but I’m not familiar with it. But he
John-Nelson Pope: basically the guys is wrongfully imprisoned. His wife has stolen and all that, and all he spent, he spends 20 years plotting revenge.
And even when he is. free. When he is free, he finally gets out. He’s free and he’s rich and all of that. He goes and he tries to destroy the person that, that took his love away from him and it, it nearly destroys him. Oh man. Yeah. So it was very powerful. [00:52:00]
Chris Gazdik: I did not know that’s the. Storyline for the camera.
Yeah, that’s cool. Yeah, so there’s a book on my on my bookshelf. It’s a it’s a silly book You wouldn’t think it to be on my shelf but I purposely keep it there more as a reminder for myself because I I’ve pulled it out many times and now I just mostly say it but there’s a the children’s dictionary sits on my show I’ve seen that It’s it’s for one reason the definition of forgiveness that they have in there I just thought it was perfect many years ago when I saw it So I always kept that book and I like to open it up and give it to the person so that they can read, letting go of anger against, that’s the definition of forgiveness.
Letting go of anger against letting go of anger. That’s, that’s, I would say,
John-Nelson Pope: I would say most of my
Chris Gazdik: clients have some sort of anger. They’re holding on to, yeah,
John-Nelson Pope: that’s why they’re in therapy. And I think they’re very brave to come and, [00:53:00] And look at this that they have to perhaps change
Chris Gazdik: right contend with allow to be present You know, I mean how many we’d have diagnosable conditions that are probably because of suppressed anger Yeah, no
Victoria Pendergrass: Suppressed anger is an actual dying.
Huh? It’s too bad. Suppressed. Anger is not actually. Oh Diagnosable
Chris Gazdik: code I literally thought you I said that it was, I was like what did I miss? I, I had a client that
John-Nelson Pope: said, I’m not
Chris Gazdik: angry. Oh,
Neil, the producer, Neil, do you have to, Neil, the producer’s like, man, the microphones just blew up. I’m sorry. So bad
Victoria Pendergrass: for anyone who has on headphones.
Chris Gazdik: So you’re fine, man. I love that. John just comes at it. He brings it. He brings it hard when he brings it. Letting go is huge resiliency. Yeah. He is. is another one that I, I had that I thought we really needed to have [00:54:00] as a part of this conversation.
That’s okay.
John-Nelson Pope: Right. Resiliency is where the okay
Chris Gazdik: zone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You spent a lot of time on that. I know you love that. Well, and yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: and just because all my years working with kids, like kids are just so resilient, probably more resilient than they actually does like need to be. They so are. I mean, even in small things, I watch my 17 month old, he falls.
Gets right back up and keeps running. Kids have not learned. And I’m just ran into a wall. They haven’t bought
Chris Gazdik: the lie. Go John, that’s what I’m trying to say. They
John-Nelson Pope: haven’t bought, oops, there goes another rubber tree plant. That was about resiliency. Cause he had high hopes he had. So they get up and keep a resiliency.
And they, they, life kind of tries to, to knock you down. Yeah. And put you down and you can believe the, [00:55:00] the, the lie and not get up again. And the challenge would be to be resilient to
Chris Gazdik: kids. They’re just not afraid to be emotional. They haven’t developed that cognitive frontal cortex, abstract thinking, reasoning ability quite so strong yet.
And they just experience what’s going on. And they’re with the moment. We lose that a little bit with our development. So in other
John-Nelson Pope: words the the executive functioning might govern it too much, right?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, trust your gut let your feelings be present You know, I oftentimes tell people right like people are afraid of children going to funerals oftentimes Yep.
That’s immediately where my brain went, Victoria, when you brought that up. Like, they’re the ones that are stable in the funerals. They do it, they deal with it really well. They’re, they’re, they’re sad that grandma’s sleeping and they miss them and they’re a puddle and then they want to go play kickball and then they’re hungry and they’re irritated so you get something to eat and then they go and say prayers with grandma and [00:56:00]
Victoria Pendergrass: you know, get, get, get.
Yeah, I didn’t get to go to my, I was four years old when my papa died, my mom’s dad. And I didn’t get to go to the funeral. Yeah. And that is actively something that I think about a lot. I probably need my own therapy
Chris Gazdik: for that. You didn’t have the opportunity for that because people were
Victoria Pendergrass: afraid for you.
Well, yeah, I mean, that was also, I was four in nineteen. Right. Ninety seven. And so, I mean, that was a long time ago. I know,
Chris Gazdik: John. I’m moving on
Victoria Pendergrass: as well. Remember, I just turned thirty last week, or two weeks ago.
Chris Gazdik: You were so we talked about resiliency. I don’t want to short that one, but you, you hit it, you hit it pretty good.
Yeah. No, I mean. Let’s spend a little bit of time on developing emotional freedom through a support system. Right? You, I, I, I don’t know. It seems like we’re, we’re, we’re readily agreeing that I [00:57:00] don’t know that you can be emotionally free if you don’t have the ability to let go. Right. It’s probably top of the list.
I also, maybe equally, don’t know if you can truly be emotionally free when you
Victoria Pendergrass: There’s a reason that when someone goes… And for transplant surgery, they have to, like, they have to prove that they have a support system. People that will help look after them and do things like that because, because you can’t do it alone.
Chris Gazdik: You know the organ won’t be used. People struggle. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: If, if I know, if I’m, if, yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Words are hard.
John-Nelson Pope: You know, this is absolutely right. When somebody has had, for example, a liver transplant, getting ready to have a liver transplant. Right. They have to be evaluated. They have to be assessed. They have to be able to to let’s say if they are, have hepatitis, which caused [00:58:00] liver, you know, death of the liver of the organ or alcoholism, right?
Yeah. They have to demonstrate that, that they have that support system that will help them.
Chris Gazdik: Through this, they won’t, you know, it’s funny, I did not know that that was part of the assessment for organ transplants, but it makes perfect sense. I
Victoria Pendergrass: mean, well, and not just even that, I mean. Any major trans Procedure.
Any major surgery, the doctors are pretty probably gonna ask you, like, Do you have people that can help take care of you when you get home?
Chris Gazdik: And not only the physical, but the mental. Yeah. Like, again, I think that we like to romanticize, I’m tough. Emotions don’t bother me. I’m unflappable. So I don’t need to tell anybody and nobody needs to know what I’m feeling.
I just, I don’t think that you can sustain emotional
Victoria Pendergrass: freedom. I would say, yeah, I would say if [00:59:00] like in the dating pool, a red flag is, would be someone who’s actively defiant against therapy and a green flag would be someone who is actively and willingly admits that they’re involved
John-Nelson Pope: in there. Well, I won’t marry somebody that won’t go to premarital counseling.
Yeah, you won’t.
Chris Gazdik: Really?
John-Nelson Pope: As a pastor? As a pastor because the, the, the guy and it’s usually the guys. And I don’t need that. I don’t need that. And it turns out that the guy really has very little, there’s sometimes substance abuse going on or misogyny or something like that. So yeah, you got to serve somebody is what Bob Dylan said.
Bob Dylan, Bob Dylan. So you got to serve somebody. And so part of this is. If a person doesn’t have emotional freedom, they’re not going to know that whether some things that they serve, let’s say, let’s [01:00:00] say drugs or social media or a profligate lifestyle, so to speak, there’s judgment on my part there a bit, but they’re, they’re going to go down the wrong.
Trail.
Chris Gazdik: Well, I just, yeah, I just feel like there’s the reality of the other. So you have to serve somebody, but you also have to receive it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s relational, right? I don’t know that we are designed or have the ability to just keep our emotion inside and think that we’re going to be able to be free from that.
It has got to go somewhere to someone or something. Prayer is amazing for that. You, you, you, you use your prayer to Allah or whom your creator is. It goes, it, there has to be a movement it’s in you and to be free, it has to go outside of you. Oh, I
Victoria Pendergrass: love that. I love that. I love telling people to utilize time alone in their car, to talk to themselves.
[01:01:00] Absolutely. You don’t even have to be talking to anyone, but. What’s called
Chris Gazdik: gestalt. Yeah, the old gestalt stuff.
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, I remember when I was pregnant with my child. I I mean, I was talking to him, but I would just talk I would just talk and I mean
and it would be It would be very therapeutic for me. Yeah, I mean technically I guess I was talking to him in my stomach, but I don’t know.
It kind of, I mean, it helps reduce some of my anxiety. It’s
Chris Gazdik: a great point. I’m just, I’m, I giggled inside myself because my next door neighbor, shout out to you, Kevin. He’s like, man, I’ve had many, many arguments with my wife and she’s not been here and it’s better that way. Right. I know? Yeah, absolutely. And he gets it out.
It’s got to go. It’s just got to go
John-Nelson Pope: somewhere. I have a client that he, he had a transplant of because he had non Hodgkin’s lymphoma, a variety of that, had, and His therapeutic moment [01:02:00] is he has to go to a drum circle. Oh, those are awesome. Yeah, once a month. That is his… You go to
Victoria Pendergrass: Asheville? No, he goes here.
John-Nelson Pope: Okay. So, yeah, but you would expect that in
Victoria Pendergrass: Asheville. Yeah, I would. Yeah. Which is why I asked.
Chris Gazdik: You know, I, I, sorry, I forgot to be checking YouTube with the comments and stuff. And, you know, we have a comment, forgive and forget, but it’s hard to forget. You know, it’s, it’s so true. There’s… There’s a, there’s a reality with that.
And yeah, and you know what, I
Victoria Pendergrass: don’t go ahead. I said, like I said earlier, screw that. You do not have to forget, right? Well, you can forget, you can forgive and not forget because I’d like to tell people and you can correct me if you think I’m wrong, but I like to tell people that if you forget your chances of it, letting it happen again, increase, you can become naive.
And so then by forgetting, by forgiving. still remembering, you’re able to at least protect yourself and create those boundaries to prevent a similar situation [01:03:00] happening in the future. You learn.
John-Nelson Pope: And if you say, what the scripture says is, for example, in Christian scriptures, well, you’re to forgive and forget.
It doesn’t say that. It says you are to forgive.
Chris Gazdik: Period.
Victoria Pendergrass: Period. Period.
Chris Gazdik: Period. Mic drop. Wow. Yeah. Victoria is on this one, boy. And I’m glad you are because that is, that is a tough thing that people do get into. It’s kind of like, well, I’m not going to give this up. I’m going to hang on to this pain that I’m causing with this anger because I don’t want to be hurt again.
I’ve been hurt many times over and dadgummit, I’m not, not again, never again. That’s, that’s not what we want, that’s not where we want to be. You know, I agree with you, Victoria. I’m glad you’ve hit that hard. It’s
Victoria Pendergrass: mainly because I’ve talked a lot about it last week and this week with my client. So it’s really like fresh on my mind.
Isn’t it funny
Chris Gazdik: that it is? I love it. These things that we are talking about, this is really through a therapist’s eyes. Because this is what we talk about. This [01:04:00] is what we do. It’s real in our office. And it’s not… We,
John-Nelson Pope: we gain wisdom through our clients. Oh,
Chris Gazdik: you know that they, our clients. Oh, for sure. Clients teach us.
John-Nelson Pope: I learned so much from them. They’re so wonderful.
Chris Gazdik: In my private life, people, I’m sure I, I even qualify and I’m like, I know I say this all the time, but you know, they, I, I was talking to client. I learned that, da, da, da. Yeah. It,
Victoria Pendergrass: I say that I go home to my husband sometimes and I’ll be like, you’ll never guess what I learned today.
Right? I mean, from a
Chris Gazdik: diet, it’s constant. It’s constant. So, Closing thoughts, comments. We need to bug out here. I think did, did we do a good job? Is there anything
that we missed with really important concepts? Oh, well, I just looked at my reminder sheet. The last one that we did talk about is self acceptance.
That’s also a pretty strong requirement that we talked about before. Anything that we missed is my, is the brainstorm good there? What, what, what really stabilizes the emotional freedom? I
Victoria Pendergrass: think being vulnerable and. [01:05:00] Knowing that it is achievable, it is doable. But in order. And it,
John-Nelson Pope: and it’s a process though, because you have to, you have to practice it.
It’s like living and changing. You, you brought up working out. Yeah. Working out or eating or whatever. And that is that you have to change, revisit
Chris Gazdik: and revisit. Go and do it.
Victoria Pendergrass: And I, if I lifted the same weight every single time I went to the gym, I’m not gonna make too significant of a, I might make a little bit of a progress, but I’m not really gonna make.
and impact. So I slowly increase the weight,
Chris Gazdik: slowly increase your emotion management, slowly get up one day and bench press. Two hundred pounds. You knew where I was going slowly, get into managing, slowly get into, but just take steps. Just, just take steps. Listen, I appreciate you going along with this journey with us on emotional freedom, understanding it.
And the catchy title there. Want some, I’m sure [01:06:00] that you do. And I want to encourage you to really understand that it is as Victoria just said, we are capable of, of doing that. We see that in our offices. And so that encouragement, I hope you receive and today grow a little bit more and then a little bit more tomorrow.
And towards the goal of maintaining emotional take care. Be well, and we’ll see you