Friendship is a topic we haven’t covered on the show in a while so Chris thought it would be good to circle back to it. In this episode we start by looking at what friendship is, how do you make friends and how to maintain those relationships. We also look at how friendships are being devalued and leading to a rise in loneliness across many areas of society. Hopefully this episode will help you see the importance of your friends and gives you a few ways to find, build or rebuild your friendships.
Tune in to see Friendship Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- Do you know what a friendship is?
- How do you make new friends… really?
- Do you have to maintain a friendship?
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
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Episode #248 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Through a Therapist’s Eyes, where you get insights in your home and in your car by the panel of therapists. We have Mr John Pope hanging out with us again this week, sir. Hi. And Miss Victoria Pendergrass. How are you, madam? I’m good. How are you? I’m doing pretty good. It was a hairy day, but it ended up calm.
Yeah. Calmer, I should say. But this is not the delivery of therapy services in any way. We do have a topic of show tonight for you that I think you’re really going to enjoy. About friendships Do we miss them? So we’re going to talk about the idea of I just hear people talking all the time that you don’t have them out there.
And I think that you and I could probably very much agree we would want more of them. And we think it’s easy to make friends and lament having such a few of them and loneliness being a pandemic. I mean, there’s so much that people think [00:01:00] about in their relationships with friends that just missing them.
And so… The angle that I want to take actually is do we miss the opportunity to have them make them create them and maintain them like what happens with your lack of friendships that I hear about all the time. So some questions. Do you know what a friendship really even is? I know that sounds like a silly question, but I’ve actually got specific thoughts about that.
Do you know how to make friends and do you really maintain them ever much at all? So we are on youtube. You’ll have to see on youtube. We’ve got some different lights and stuff give a shout out to our guy sitting over there in the corner. His name is mr. Jack fordenberry cdpmediainc. com did I get that right?
He’s shaking his head. Yes. And he has a podcast, better business owners as well. Just throw a shout out to him. He’s helping us out with some lighting and playing around with this. And Jack, I’ll formally say, I appreciate you being willing to hang out with us and help us out a little bit. Make us make John’s face [00:02:00] glow.
It’s glowing, John. Radiant. That’s right. Radiant.
John Pope: Yes. That’s not the the grease or anything, is it?
Chris Gazdik: I don’t. I don’t think it is. I don’t think it is. Good. The, what else we got? We got the sponsor, FirstHorizonBank. com, I suppose, is their main way to find them, but they’re, they’re a branch of banking in and around the country.
Based out of, I’m going to remember this Memphis, Memphis, Tennessee. I got it right. And they have good neighborhood banking system. I like the feel that I get when I walk into their branch and have a relaxed feel doing banking with them. It’s been a pleasure to find these folks. What else? So contact it through a therapist size.
com is where we take your questions off the air. We’ll respond to you. John gets upset if you give us a four star review, five star. Has to be
John Pope: five. Yes, it does.
Chris Gazdik: Has to be five star reviews. Absolutely. It helps us out a lot, guys, to give us the reviews that clicks [00:03:00] the thumbs up the subscriptions to get found and to grow this thing.
So this is the human emotional experience, which we do endeavor to figure out together. What do you think? Well, first, before we get to the topic to I should have really done this last week as well when everything was kind of going on and I I didn’t. So on the show, we like to do current events and things and boy, we’ve got, we’ve got some, some big ones kind of going on, right?
Big, big events. What have you been saying all week? I’ve been saying the world seems like it’s on fire. It’s, it’s brutal out there in a lot of ways. So a heartfelt hello and we’re with you. If you’re a praying type, I encourage you to join us in prayer towards the Palestinians, the Israelis, the Ukrainians folks are struggling out there in these world events that I think that we’re all grappling with and.
Guys, [00:04:00] I think John and Victoria, I’d be curious what, what you would find, what your thoughts are, but I’ll start us off a little bit with a quick segment on this stuff in that there’s a term called secondary trauma that is really real. I’ve, I’ve had… More than one folks in, in sessions really tore up with this stuff, stressed out, anxious, worried, tearful.
I haven’t had it, but I know when things like this happen, people literally have dreams about the events. I mean, the traumatic reactions in realities are very, very real and I want to normalize that. Well, I,
John Pope: I’m sorry, go ahead.
I, I think that, that it’s… It’s understandable. I think if, are you talking about in terms of health providers in the healthcare or being therapists, a secondary trauma that way?
No. Are you talking about
Chris Gazdik: the kids? The, the, the reality. Okay. So I’m glad you said that. Let me make it clear. [00:05:00] Secondary trauma in my mind is really referring to all of us. None, not many of us have been. In and around the world in the Gaza Strip with a bomb that exploded in our neighborhood and street.
Right. A very few, small percentage of the world population has. However, we have really, as a world population, experienced the trauma in dreams, in worry, in anxiety, in distress, in a secondary way, but in a very real way. Well, I mean,
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah, when you, like, turn on the TV, or you get on the internet, and you see videos of, like, mutilated bodies, and kids dead on the street, and women, and, you know, families, like, I, I kinda compare it to 9 11.
Those of us that watched it, like, on the TV. We didn’t, we didn’t experience it firsthand, of, like, being in New York, or being in D. C., or, like, you know, [00:06:00] all the places, but we, like, secondary trauma of, like, watching it. Yeah. And… experiencing it that way.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. For those of us in the States, that was our, and really that was an honestly, Victoria, I’ve kind of said for a long time in several ways, looking at the effects of social media in our lives and the way this has happened through.
Cable news and whatnot. I really feel like the 9 11 experience Watching on tv in real time everything that was really happening It was as though you were in new york city the whole day Watching all of the events and I don’t think humankind has experienced that around the world Before that that that event.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, and and the effect. I mean, we all remember how we felt just
Victoria Pendergrass: Remember where we were.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, all this stuff all day long. Yeah, it was it was it was terrible. So John does that Make sense about secondary trauma. Yeah. Yeah, I
John Pope: I’m a little more of [00:07:00] the sense that that let’s say the dsm 5 definition of it And that’s what I was I was giving, but I, I can certainly appreciate what you’re saying.
I remember when Kennedy was shot. I’m that old and I was just 10 years old. And I remember that. I remember like it was yesterday. I remember when MLK was shot. I remember when Bobby Kennedy was shot. I remember seeing the the, the, the monk being emulated, catching himself on fire in. In Vietnam and Saigon burning himself up to protest the war back in those days.
And so it’s a series of traumas that, that we take on to ourselves. And so I’m, I’m, I’m talking about my own self, but there’s a sense that it’s cumulative too. Don’t you think? Absolutely. And of course, nine, not 11. We
Chris Gazdik: know that about trauma. Yeah. Which honestly, people in the Middle East folks around the world, I mean, I know [00:08:00] we have a an audience in, in various places around the world and there as well, man, over and over and over again, these kinds of things happen in a cumulative way, affect generations.
And this is biblical. I mean, it’s gone back biblically, you know,
Victoria Pendergrass: long, long. Well, and then plus not just that, but like the desensitization. Of it all, like, we’re desensitized to, because
John Pope: of social media, like. I think that’s how some people cope with it, unfortunately. Yeah. Right. I think,
Victoria Pendergrass: right. Especially in the age of, like, social media, where, you know, just because it’s, the video isn’t shown on, like, the news, doesn’t mean you can’t access a video, like, elsewhere, that’s unedited, or that’s, you know, like, all that stuff.
So it’s
John Pope: a pornography of violence? It’s a, it’s a, it’s a type of pornography. It’s violence and see, see all the trauma. And, and by [00:09:00] that, I mean that the it’s exploitive, it’s it’s meant to to paralyze people, to hurt people.
Chris Gazdik: I, you know, it’s funny, John, I think it is, what do you mean by it? The,
John Pope: to see the violence.
On media all
Chris Gazdik: the time. So it’s funny, I don’t, I don’t know that it’s meant to be perpetrated as violence, but in this day and age with secondary trauma and all of the things that we have going on right now in our world and in the current events, interestingly enough. I’m listening to you, and we do have these events.
I have several events in my mind that I know where I was. Like, I was in Respec’s grocery store when the Gulf War began, and I heard on the radio, the United States has executed the attack on Iraq. I remember these moments, and 9 11 is one of those moments. So, but… But in all of that experience that you had with the Kennedy experience or the Vietnam [00:10:00] realities and the civil rights movements that were going on in the 60s I mean, it was a very traumatic time, especially in in in these United States.
I feel like the experience online And virtual intensity is very, very different than those big events like Pearl Harbor or whatever event around the world that is stimulating into your exact memory. This is saturation.
John Pope: Well, no, that’s exactly
Chris Gazdik: what I was saying. Okay. Well, it is that. Yeah.
John Pope: I was saying that, that it, there’s a sense is one becomes desynthesized to pornography with pornography, for example sexual things where the person can’t have a relationship with a Another
Chris Gazdik: person.
Oh, right. Yeah. You were saying that about the pornography recent, but what you started us off with the experiences that you had and I’m asking [00:11:00] kind of, and stating, I think the saturation, like we have that all the
John Pope: time. It doesn’t
Chris Gazdik: stop. So in your experience, how is that different than what you experienced with Kennedy?
What you experienced with a few of those different marking events? That were indelible imprinted into your memory and your experience. How is it different now with the saturation? That’s what I’m really keying in on.
John Pope: This is what I’m concerned about. I don’t know if it, if we become so accustomed to this, that it, it does get to us, it does traumatize us, but at the same time We, we are desynthesized to it.
We have to get more and more and more. I think in terms of videos and tick talk and I’m sorry, Snapchat and all that other stuff, all those videos, it’s so instant, it’s so present. It just, it engulfs our brains. And so, you know,
Chris Gazdik: what’s interesting, you just made a new thought with me [00:12:00] that, that I think is really potentially pretty cool.
I started us off by saying. Look, people are experiencing this in my office, and can we suggest that that’s a good thing? Because, Victoria, we know when people are really traumatized, the numbness comes out, the desensitization comes out, the lack of emotional… Connectivity with that. That’s a really bad sign.
Yeah. So is it, is it not maybe a good sign that people are having dreams about this and are having? I mean, we’re processing the emotion because we’re saturated with it. Is that a good thing? Rather than, even worse, this desensitized, numb reality. Maybe,
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah. I mean, yeah, I think I get what you’re saying. I don’t know.
I don’t know. I’m, I’m, it just makes me think about, like, Like school shootings, for example, like mass shootings in general, especially [00:13:00] here in the States. Like it, they just nowadays happen so frequently that like, I know this sounds awful, but like, I honestly like don’t care every time one comes up. Like it doesn’t bother you.
Yeah. Like it comes up on the news, like, Oh, there, you know, there was a mass shooting somewhere, or, I mean, I think school shootings hit me a little bit harder than like. Outside of school, but
John Pope: you spent a lot of time in schools even
Victoria Pendergrass: right? Yeah, and I work. Yeah, I worked in a school And so but it’s like, okay, like I feel bad for them for a second, but I know it sounds bad But then it’s like my life.
Chris Gazdik: It sounds like it sounds like it’s not that you don’t care It sounds like that you move on like yeah, pretty quick.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah Yeah, it’s not like when things like Columbine or something first happened where people I mean Wasn’t around then, but yeah, it was stuck. Yeah, but like that’s what I’m saying. It’s like back then It’s more like people spent hot like you really like mold over it Mm hmm, [00:14:00] even those that weren’t directly affected But now like unless you’re directly affected by these big life events a lot of times.
We don’t necessarily Spend the time to like properly process through it. Right. We kind of just are like, oh, well at least it’s not happening in my yard. You know? And then you kind of like could, right? Well, right. It could, but,
Chris Gazdik: and it does. And it does. I think that’s, that’s a part of what suggesting, you know, that people are experiencing all around the world, you know, in such a dramatic way.
I was
John Pope: thinking that you were going to the, to the deaths, the violent deaths of the, of the, of the Israelis and let’s say with hospital with the the Palestinians and and whether or not that came from the Israelis or did come from the, the like a terrorist group the, the fact is, is that people died and right.
Right. And there are a [00:15:00] lot of, of homes that there’s, there’s a child missing or a a spouse or a son or a daughter or a wife or husband.
Chris Gazdik: Tell you what guys, I’m really starting to feel like I need a friend. Yeah, right. I need a friend. You know, I think we need a friend. You need a friend.
Victoria Pendergrass: We could stay.
We could Let’s do a whole episode on this. Yeah. Yeah, we probably should.
Chris Gazdik: And I think I want to tag us into what we want to talk about today, friendship, because there, there is so much that we can do with this, but, but I want you to know really around the world, wherever you may be, that this is a normal emotional human experience that I think you’re probably having when you notice reactions.
To things that you wonder why is it bothering me this badly? i’ve i’ve i’ve had more than one person in my office the last couple of weeks i’m talking about tore up Like in this states of distress, so I don’t want you to think That you’re
doing something wrong, or this is [00:16:00] weird that you would experience this.
Like, look, you, you need to know that people are waking up early. They’re having a hard time going to sleep. They’re in a disturbed state. They’re upset. They’re having a hard time. You know, Chris, I
John Pope: agree with you because I think we’re, I think that shows humanity. I think, I think, I think the, the one mistake that we would make is that we don’t do something, we don’t provide help.
We don’t give support. Sure. And so, so that, that grief, that disturbance, that anxiety,
Chris Gazdik: follow it with an action with an action. Yes. That’s a good point, John. Yeah, I think that’s a good point because people are hurting out there. Yeah. Whatever side you think you’re on. If there’s a side like, you know, the Palestinians shruggling man and the Israelis are hurting from all of this and the Ukrainians for that matter.
And the Russian people, I mean that I don’t think they’re exactly happy of everything that’s going on. Wars and battles. So it’s just it’s tough. I just wanted to really, really [00:17:00] do a good segment here on the reality with secondary trauma and and normalize that for you so that you do not, you do not isolate and be alone with the pain that that you’re having with all of these things going on.
So let’s talk about friendship. The questions I thought were trying to provoke your brain into you. See, we did a show on, on friendship a couple of years ago with Craig and the way that I think about friendships, I think that you’re going to be really kind of surprised with a little bit because I put a lot of thought and, and, and practice into like guiding people in this area of life.
And I don’t, I don’t think people guys really think about this. So I’m, I’m really going to be curious to talk about this with a panel of therapists to, to see what your, your take is and what your thoughts are because. I, I feel like I’m a little weird and different, at least since I’ve done that show with Craig a couple years ago because he just didn’t think about any of these.
[00:18:00] So I’m just curious how you guys are going to think about these. What do you think a friendship is? Have either of you spent a lot of time on the in depth nature of these questions and this topic? Let me just start off broad to see what you guys are thinking.
Victoria Pendergrass: One, no, I don’t, like, research and stuff, like, looking into it, I don’t do.
Yeah. But I see friendship
Chris Gazdik: as… Well, but I’m saying broadly real quick. Okay. Is this something, I mean, I know this is something that you do in your therapy. Because we all are dealing with social support networks. And developing relationships and all that. Right, loneliness and all, so I know it’s a… Primary issue in therapy, but I’m
Victoria Pendergrass: like how would I define what it
Chris Gazdik: what I’m asking beyond just the typical clinical work that we do With people like how much have you really thought about the depths of?
operationally day to day Friendship because I think outside of my work like I think about this a lot
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay, like half [00:19:00] Z’s. Yeah But it doesn’t like consume my
Chris Gazdik: don’t pay attention as much
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah, I
Chris Gazdik: mean I don’t Cause I think that’s the norm, Victoria. That’s
Victoria Pendergrass: what I’m getting at. I mean, I am, yeah, I mean, I mean, I’m pretty, a pretty observant person.
So like, yeah, if I’m at the gym, I might notice like friends and stuff like that and observe them, I guess. But I don’t necessarily, I don’t always do that. It’s not, You know,
Chris Gazdik: I,
John Pope: I, I hear you, but those sound like acquaintances to me. What? To observe friends in, in a gym, is there somebody that you would go to the mat for, that you would?
No, he’s
Victoria Pendergrass: saying how, how much time do I spend thinking about it. Oh, okay. And I’m just saying like, I don’t, out in public, yes, I might observe like a friend, a friendship out in public, but I’m not necessarily spending a ton of time outside of my job.
Oh, Okay. I’m [00:20:00] not necessarily spending a ton of time. Thinking about the depths of friendship. No, I’m sorry.
And
Chris Gazdik: I think that’s, but I think that’s the norm and, and I think honestly, I want to change that a little bit because I think it’s that important of a relationship that on our priority list, you know, God, self, spouse, kids, family, friends, and then work is the last.
We think a lot about work and we think a lot about our kids and our family and all the other. Relationships, but I don’t think that we process through in an important enough way
about
Victoria Pendergrass: friendships. No, I think about my own friendships. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: well, I’m not saying we don’t think about our friends. We don’t think about people, you know.
So you’re kind of
John Pope: doing a meta thing a little bit, though.
Chris Gazdik: Go further with that, I
John Pope: think so. Okay, in other words, you’re… It’s the observance of how friends works, how friendships work, right? And the systems that go on between that. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Right. We do that with family. Yeah. We talk about parenting all the time and [00:21:00] parenthetical ways
And we think about good parenting and bad parenting. And I just don’t think that we spend a lot of time in a, you say a meta way. It’s a broad way, right? Well,
John Pope: we, it’s one of those things that just. Yes. And maybe it deserves a lot more depth
Chris Gazdik: to it. You’re putting better words on it. That’s precisely what I’m saying.
Well, I have a PhD,
John Pope: so
Chris Gazdik: that’s
John Pope: awesome. You know, that’s bogus on my part,
Chris Gazdik: but you’re one of the most humble people I know, brother. No, but that’s precisely it. And, and that’s. Super unfortunate. That’s it. Because, ah, well, we’ll get into it. We’ll go on. But that’s perfectly what I’m what I’m talking about. So So let’s get into what you were saying.
Is this acquaintance or is this friend? What is a friendship?
Victoria Pendergrass: A friendship when you’re an adult specifically is when you walk up to a [00:22:00] person and you say, Hey, you seem pretty chill. Let’s hang out. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. Well, that might be the beginning of a friendship.
John Pope: A friendship is somebody that you walk up to and you haven’t seen in 15 years and take off where you left
Chris Gazdik: off.
Yep. Okay. I second that. Definitely. I
Victoria Pendergrass: mean, you’re asking us for this. Friendship is trust. Friendship is connection. Friendship is, could be said like soulmates.
John Pope: Friendship can be something that even a spouse or a partner doesn’t know.
Chris Gazdik: So what I get at here is I do get frustrated, honestly, is a little bit of a tell how How much people use the word and John, as you jumped in at Victoria, when you thought she was in a different space, this is a, this is an acquaintance.
This is not a friend. Yeah. There’s a difference. People will say, we’re friends. Hey friend. [00:23:00] You know, they say my friend across the aisle, you know, in Congress, at least they used to say that. Not now. Probably Not so much anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. Talks on both their houses. Yeah, well we have these phrases, and it’s not friendship.
To me, that’s a really important word. And I actually have developed my own definition of that. Over the years, and it is contact with a person, I think a person of interest contact with a person outside of the purpose point, right? Okay. And so people will have a relationship with all sorts of folks in, in groups or in organizations or in, we live in the Bible belt here.
So let’s just say, let’s pick on churches for a minute. Oh, we’re friends. I know her from church or, oh, he and I are in a small group. That’s networking. It’s networking, it’s social, it’s culture, it’s group and [00:24:00] group life. And that’s all good stuff, but it’s not friendship. That’s what they say in the south.
A lot of people around the country and world are like, what did that mean? That’s bless their heart is a way to, is a way to say like, Set up a dig. But so, but think about that. If you’re friends with this person in the small group that you’re in in a church, what differentiates them from all the other people that you’re not seeing?
Friends with but you still got a church friend. You’re friendly, right? Friends to me is when you begin to do activities outside of the purpose point purpose point is how I know you John you and I would be more like friends if we went and watched a hockey game together, right? Right.
John Pope: And Yes, exactly.
We’re
Chris Gazdik: hanging out. Yeah. Engaging in activity. Or if we was sit the gym
John Pope: together. I know. And we’d go and we would carry a beer and we’d stand outside the the, and we’d say,
Chris Gazdik: [00:25:00] yep. . Yeah. From King of the Hill. He’s, he’s like, Craig, oh, this from King of the Hill King. I thought you were going to my West Virginia roots, man.
Oh, I thought you were going West Virginia roots too. I thought you were going to the Zers there. So it would
Victoria Pendergrass: be like, Chris, if you and I went to the gym together, Outside of work. Right. Because we, like last night, ran into you at the gym. Right. We
Chris Gazdik: would be more friends if we went to dinner like we were talking about doing, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
John Pope: And so you’re talking, in a sense, because I like to think of you as a friend, but there’s, there’s the colleague aspect of it. Right. It’s very much there. And, and so there’s a professional relationship that we
Chris Gazdik: have. I think
Victoria Pendergrass: so. Yeah. So you’re saying, so for example, like my two best friends I met in college.
So the fact that they’re, well, they’re my best friends, but the fact that they’re my friends is that I did things with them outside of college, you know, and even after, even though I graduated college.[00:26:00]
I can’t do math right now that we still do things together, so that’s what makes us friends. Well,
Chris Gazdik: there’s a lot of things that make us friends, but I’m just kind of, or that’s your
Victoria Pendergrass: like connection between,
Chris Gazdik: I want us to think about what type of relationship this is and if it’s exclusive to the purpose point.
We can, we’re friendly, we’re more acquaintances, John. We’re engaged in this activity in a very friendly and kind and loving way. I have no problem with that even. It can be a really important engagement, but it’s, you’re a group member to this person. You begin to develop a personal relationship with somebody when you get outside of the purpose plane.
The perfect example that I use always with this is my buddy Joe. Hey Joe, love you out there. Thanks for being my friend, for real. He’s been a friend for a long time, but it was funny because we met in the Cub Scouts. We were both dads, and then we ended up being leaders. And [00:27:00] that’s all that I knew from Joe, and that’s all he knew me of.
John Pope: An adult that you met. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: he’s he’s a dad. He’s a fellow fellow dad. Yes, you’re you’re right. Thank you for the clarification. Yeah, I had to be careful. I wasn’t hanging out with the kiddos. But Joe and I, we, we enjoyed each other and we talked to each other and all, but there was, there was one particular moment that I like to tell the story of when we’re sitting at the campfire and you know, his kid, He got up to go do something and the kid came and sat down and he got on to his kid.
No, he’s like, no, get up, get up. I’m sitting down. I want, no, get up. I want to, I’m sitting next to my friend. And I was like, Oh, we’re friends. I didn’t know. I didn’t know. I didn’t know we were friends. And so then we, we went from that to start a routine after the Cubs got camp outs, we’d go to Waffle House.
That was what we did alone outside of the group without the kids. Well, no, with the kids. With the kids. Yeah, we took the kids. But that formulated [00:28:00] a… Friendship that grew from,
Victoria Pendergrass: from that. Would you also say that a friendship is, would you, let me finish my sentence. Would you say that a friendship is when you begin to like genuinely care about someone as well?
Well,
Chris Gazdik: yeah, I think there’s a lot to go into it. Like I said, I think, or that’s when
Victoria Pendergrass: you like deter the difference between just an acquaintance versus like acquaintance versus a colleague.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, what were you saying
John Pope: John? I was gonna, well there’s two things I was gonna say. The origin of the word friendship is what we have Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love.
And so that’s friendship. Philia is a form of love. Right. And it’s higher love. And so you would see that, that, that sense that if, if you’re loving somebody and it, it can be it’s, it goes across gender, sexual or whatever, it’s, it’s very deep and profound, [00:29:00] but it’s an, it is a, it’s an acceptance of one another.
Now I think the other thing is it, because of my military background. I see that also is, it’s formed and forged in adversity and yeah, that’s a big, that’s a
Chris Gazdik: big point. Right.
John Pope: Common adversity. Let’s say, and that’s why you have, you know, you have buddies in the, in the foxhole because That person has your back and your life depends on that other
Chris Gazdik: person.
You could develop friendships pretty quickly. Deep, well, you can develop deep connections quickly, but again, friendship has to be
John Pope: for, and it has to be nurtured, maintained, but it’s important, it’s interesting to see how many reunions there are of people that have served in the military. Why is that?
It’s like, it’s, it’s even more important than a reunion, going to a high school reunion, where you’re very young, [00:30:00] where you’re very young, and you also, a lot of friendships are so important at that time, and you, Well,
Chris Gazdik: you know, John, it’s interesting that you also have, you know, important reunions, such as, like, the reunions of the crash the airplane crash flight 98, or whatever it was, we, you know, in New York, it was in Charlotte, you have reunions of, of you know, Holocaust survivors and, and, and various, I mean, there are various types of reunions with big, tight, hard events that, that, that forge that friendship that you’re talking about.
But I’m maintaining it becomes a friendship when you begin to develop a relationship outside of that focus.
John Pope: It’s not expecting. As much in other words, it’s where you can feel safe to be with another person and share your, your ultimate
Chris Gazdik: thoughts. Well, there’s a lot of things like that cast online.
What did she say? That it makes well, I lost [00:31:00] it. Real friends make life special. And I think it’s a great, it’s a great statement. And you know, we, we. We just, there’s so many characteristics. I don’t think we need to spend a whole lot of time on the trust and the love and like what in general a friendship is.
What is it and how to get them and how to maintain them and the importance of them. I
Victoria Pendergrass: like your definition of it though. Yeah. Like where it goes beyond just the purpose of why we’re together in the first place.
Chris Gazdik: Right. It’s important because then you can really build on the connection that you forge in friendship and have all these lovely things.
So it has to be nurtured. It has to be nurtured. Oh, for sure. We would all agree. But, but again, if we’re not really thinking, let me, let me tie two thoughts together that where we started before where we are there with that. If we’re not on the meta level thinking about those relationships as a purposeful way and as an engaging way, it’s like, you know, We’re not nurturing them, we’re not being mindful of them.
We’re not. And so let me go back and tell you why I [00:32:00] thought of this title. Do we miss them? And this, this actually came from a conversation, was it with you, Victoria, and me? Possibly. We, we have a lot of conversations.
Victoria Pendergrass: We have a lot of conversations.
Chris Gazdik: it actually, it wasn’t with you. No, it, it was in a session.
This, this, this was born in a session a, a few days ago. Actually. That’s, I remember now because we were talking about how like, look. At different stages of life, we, we experience the loss of friendship, and I think that contributes to the experience of loneliness that, that, that is so prevalent. So think about high school graduation.
You develop friendships, and if you’re not purposeful about it, boom, everyone just explodes in all these different directions, right? And then you, you think about, you know, when you have a baby, Victoria, you’re right in the middle of it. Yep. You know, you get consumed by, you know I’ve been trying
Victoria Pendergrass: to hang out with my two best friends for like the purposeful past month.
Yeah. [00:33:00] Every weekend. What are you doing this weekend? Oh, we’re busy. Oh, I’m busy. Like and then I get busy and I’m like, okay, what about this weekend? And like, no, literally for like a whole month, I’ve been texting one of my friends, like trying to get us. I’m so
Chris Gazdik: glad you’re doing that.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yes. I get what you’re saying about you have to
Chris Gazdik: be same thing with retirement.
Just to go a little further. People forget, like they leave their workplace and they go back home and they forget to be purposeful about maintaining that friendship. And did you have a friendship with your colleague, John? Like you say, cause when you retire. You go
John Pope: home. I’ve got a, I’ve got a a friend that I’ve got a friend.
Yes, You’ve got a friend. Did
Chris Gazdik: I? It’s right. You’re coming off on me, man.
John Pope: You can do a tune. He’s in, he’s in Billings, Montana right now. He teaches at the University of Montana. One of the, or I think it might be state or something like that. Okay. I’m not sure. We don’t have anything in common. Except, and he’s a rock star.
He’s a musician. He played, [00:34:00] he wore a feather boa when he was playing back in the eighties and all of that. Nice. And he’s about 10 years younger than I am. And he’s an atheist. And I’m a believer. I’m a believer. Oh my gosh. Just talk. So anyway, so Victoria. We, he’s never married. I’ve been married over 40 years.
Lots of differences. We are so different, but we both like we have a common theme and that is empathy and existentialism. And our whole friendship is based on that. Yeah. And he’s just a, he’s a wonderful guy and don’t have a lot in common with him. But we call, we call each other once
Chris Gazdik: a week. I love that john, because When I did this show with Craig a couple years ago, he was kind of amazed, and I remember him kind of
talking about like, Gosh, I never thought about, you know, being purposeful [00:35:00] about this, and how you make friends, and what you actively do, and, and, and he’s like, it just seems like it just happens naturally.
You know, you, you’re, the friends that you have, and it does, there’s a natural piece of this. Yeah, yeah. Just like dating. But the point that’s interesting that you’re describing with your friendship in, in such a cool way is, you know, You can have great differences and be purposeful about nurturing it, right?
Building it and building that on respect of the differences and how you connect with things. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s,
John Pope: I have a lot of acquaintances that have a lot more in common with me and share a lot more values with me that they’re not. They’re, I’m kind of an introvert. I don’t have a stable of friends.
I have maybe five or six friends that I can count on.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, well, that’s what you need. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a good place to interject. I think on a lot of times, you know, we think about [00:36:00] Friendship, but we don’t think about the level or the type of friend and I won’t spend a whole lot of time on this But I actually when I’m working with somebody in therapy with these relationships, I look at The scale I have like a scale that I go by and so it starts off on a low end Can’t talk with my hands with this stupid mic in my way You start on the low end, right?
And that’s acquaintance and and and just we know what acquaintances are and a little step up from that is a fun friend And those are people Those are, that’s what I call them. Actually, those are people that you literally just have fun with and stuff. But there’s a big line here that I call the trust line that you go over and then you have people that are good friends and that’s people that you’ve invested in people that you’re, you’re good friends with.
And then there’s best friends where you’re really intimately close and you share a lot with, and then there are intimate relationships and that’s not just sexual, but those are like, you know, Adrian, my buddy, he’s my intimate close buddy, he’s my life buddy. I know that he will be for the rest of my life.
It’s those [00:37:00] are those are
Victoria Pendergrass: like lifelong. What’d you say? Those are like lifelong friends, right family.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah Otherwise and
John Pope: I have a friend like that. His name’s Kevin have nothing in common with him either. What’s up, John? He and Vicki are a theme. Yeah. Yeah, I ended up doing their marriage and all of that now my wife is is is Besties with her and it’s a wonderful wonderful thing, but I grew up With him and we were in junior high at the
Victoria Pendergrass: time.
Yeah. Like I have a best friend who we’ve literally been friends since kindergarten, actually probably before kindergarten, like birth basically. And. Still my friend today. She lives in Georgia and it’s one of those like we don’t talk every day, but when we do it is like we just pick right or whenever we do get a chance to see each other.
It’s like we just pick back up where we left off. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: it, it, it, [00:38:00] there, there are so many characteristics that are about valuing them. I mean, I like Jack’s comment, right? Like there’s a public persona and a private persona that people have and, and, you know, we got. him on YouTubes who I mean by Jack, I didn’t say John’s Jack.
Okay. You’re John, he’s Jack. But anyway, you get beyond that when you’re really relating to people. It isn’t the public or personal persona. It’s like, you know, like dating. I didn’t mean to say that that way. Closer relationships, like family relationships. Your true, authentic self gets to be known when you’re really in a…
More involved closer attachment with a friendship, you know, so it that’s a there’s just there’s so many cool things about it Let’s move on for the purpose of time though, because I want to get to some things about like, okay So, how do we get them? How do we make friends do we think in a meta way John in a Broadway in a?
You know, if we zoom out, like, [00:39:00] so
Victoria Pendergrass: are we, how do we, how do we do this? Let me clarify. Are we discussing like, how do we make friends as adults? Yes. How do we make friends as kids? Yes. Or how do we, like we’re focusing specifically on adults. No. Okay. Right. We’re looking at all of it. Why not? Well, cause I’m just saying, like, when you’re in, when you’re in school, okay, like the prime optimal time to make friends is typically grade school and college, right?
Grade school and college is where you meet, where, okay, let me say where it’s easiest. Let me, can I rephrase it and say where it’s possibly easier to make friends? You can say
Chris Gazdik: anything you want. You got an international podcast to say, but I think I’m going to be disagreeing with
Victoria Pendergrass: you in a minute. Probably.
But I feel like once you get out into, like, the workforce, or out into the whatever, maybe I’m thinking about dating more than friends, but I feel like it does become harder. I don’t want to poison your thought. Go ahead. I do feel like it becomes harder once you’re out. Of the school setting [00:40:00] to make friends, but like, at least that’s where my experience in clients has been is, you know, you talk to people, they’re like, yeah, well, I have my friends from high school and I have my friends from college or lifelong friends, but like, I haven’t really made any friends as an adult is what I hear a lot and
John Pope: I’m not going to disagree with you
Chris Gazdik: but I think I am.
Well, bear with me,
John Pope: I’m disagreeing with her, but I’m, I’m just being nice about it. Oh, thanks. Okay, so. No, no, it’s, and this is, I’m, I’m teasing you It’s okay. Keep going. Okay. No, it’s, you’ve, the longer you live, you see, you’re, you’re seeing this through goggles of a twenty something. Thirty.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay, but yeah, thanks.
Okay. No, yeah, I’ll take it. I’ll take it. I could be 20 something.
John Pope: Okay. Well, you’re third decade. Okay. Yeah. All right. So, but [00:41:00] it changes. And so you can go back and reflect back. When you’re in your 40s or 50s or 60s, and you see things a little differently. So that’s all I
Chris Gazdik: was going to say. Yeah, well, John, I agree with you.
And I’m just taking a little bit of a different angle with it, Victoria, in my thoughts, because what I, what I hear you kind of highlighting. Yeah, you’re right. It seems easier in college as well as school when
Like social community right around you. It’s almost like forced upon you and it feels easier to do then, but I’m going to suggest to you that it’s not,
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, I’m not saying that making friends in school isn’t hard.
I’m just saying that I think it’s. In my experience with my own clients and their experiences, it tends to be more difficult to make friends. There’s Outside of work, outside of school, outside of all those other things, [00:42:00] like just There would
Chris Gazdik: seem to be less opportunities for sure. Right, and maybe that’s
Victoria Pendergrass: what I’m trying to say is that like the opportunities are not as vast.
As when I hear
Chris Gazdik: this a lot, you’re in school, but I’m jumping on it because it’s so important to realize friends will come and friends will go and you need to find replacements. Let me say that again ’cause I’ve thought about this a lot. Friends come into your life and they go outta your life. Hmm. They come and they go and, and that’s a normal reality.
We all experience John. That’s what I think you were. Mm-hmm. saying things change. And we need to be able to replace them in the seasons of one’s life. You got to
Victoria Pendergrass: be able to let them go. And
Chris Gazdik: then there’s a natural progression. And so thankfully we have many opportunities all throughout the stages of your life to make.
New friends, but honestly guys, I don’t think we know how to do that. That’s where Victoria. I think people struggle Yeah, I’m particularly in [00:43:00] adulthood to like make friends and we tell kids it’s it’s so easy Just go and talk to little Johnny and make friends
Connection there And how many of us don’t have social, some sorts of anxieties and what? Well, I
John Pope: would say the therapist, I, I, I don’t know. Are you an introvert or an
Victoria Pendergrass: extrovert? I’m going to let you take a wild guess. Oh,
Chris Gazdik: I don’t know. I’m going to say she’s wildly extroverted. Yep. Yeah. Did you have a thought, John, or no?
John Pope: No, I, I think that there’s, I’m, I tend to be, I’m mildly introverted and So it’s difficult for me. And so I, I, when I get done with this podcast or if I preach, I’m like exhausted. Okay, because I’m pouring myself out.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I get that. And, and, and there is a drain and that’s why purposeful effort with [00:44:00] relationships, we’re calling them friendships, takes a purposeful effort, which drains you.
Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, and a certain level of bravery sometimes, courage, yeah, courage, bravery, vulnerability. And so, I mean, but we’re talking about how to make friends. Like I know that sounds basic, but find common interest.
Chris Gazdik: Totally what I see, you know, I go ahead further, but before you go further, because that’s exactly where I think we need to be.
I have those conversations with adults. In therapy. Oh, yeah. Seriously. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: no, I mean, you gotta, it sounds basic, but you gotta start with the basics. Like find common interest in people. And sometimes that means going to events and going to things by yourself. For example. Okay. The Renaissance Fair is in town Ren Fair.
The Renaissance Fair is in town
Chris Gazdik: for those around the world. The world. That’s like a fair, that’s in the area where you go back like medi old days. There
John Pope: used [00:45:00] to be puke and snot were a a thing at at the Ren
Chris Gazdik: fair puke and snot disgust in the medieval
Victoria Pendergrass: days. But for example, if that’s your vibe, if that’s your thing, then even if you go by yourself, like that is a great place to find.
To make friends, right? You go by yourself or you go with other people that you know. You meet other people who are dressed up like you are, or you know, like Cosplay. Yeah, and you are brave and you strike up a conversation like, I like your outfit. You know, where did you get it from? Or, you know, did you make that yourself?
And then you If it goes somewhere, it goes somewhere. If it fizzles, it may not be meant to be. If you’re a guy
John Pope: that says that to a person of opposite, you’re
Chris Gazdik: going to get in trouble. Sure. Look, we have a YouTube comment that says like, you know, it’s amazing to watch this six year old get together with, you know, his six year old get together with another kid [00:46:00] and instantly they’re friends.
I, I, I’m going to maintain that adults don’t tend to do that. Yeah, and that’s because of these things that we get held back with the vulnerability, the ear, you know, maybe sometimes the irritability, John, or, or past
John Pope: events where you have been rejected before and you’re
Chris Gazdik: hurt and it hurts, but it is crazy when we avoid.
Doing that again.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, but it’s so I agree with the comment like it is so interesting to see little kids How they have no fear of like they will just go up to someone and say hey, do you want to play no barriers? No barriers, and then it’s so interesting that like For adults, we can’t do that. Like, it’s, we can, but it’s very difficult for people to, like, if I’m sitting at a cafe or something and I see someone else that looks cool, looks interesting, I like their vibe, I like their style, it’s, I’m honestly probably, even though I’m an extrovert, like, I’m probably not gonna go up to them [00:47:00] and be like, hey, can I sit down and have a coffee with you?
And like, Right. It’s
Chris Gazdik: not gonna happen very
Victoria Pendergrass: often. But if it, if we were two kids, I would probably just go and be like, Oh my gosh, like, can I, you know, let’s play, let’s hang
John Pope: out. I could see Victoria going up to
Chris Gazdik: somebody.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, I might actually do that in real life.
Chris Gazdik: But that begins, think about it, that begins to happen in elementary school and then by middle school, you, you, you begin to very much struggle.
If a person
John Pope: looks different, then that person’s on the outs. And so, in other words, if you don’t conform to what that idealized version is of what’s cool, you’re, you’re screwed. It’s true.
Chris Gazdik: It’s sad, but it’s really true. Just aware of the time. There’s so much that we could talk about this. We need to talk more about this topic.
So hold us to that, guys out there, ladies out there. You know, contact it through therapeuticize. com. Let us know what you want to hear about this because I need [00:48:00] to keep this on the radar screen. What else do we, did I really want to get into? How
Victoria Pendergrass: to maintain it? Yeah. Oh, can I, this might, you might, can tell me not to talk about this if you don’t want to.
I think a lot of times in therapy, one of the main questions I get or that I work with people on is how do you work with a friendship where it’s like one sided, where it just seems like I’m like, say, you know, John and I are friends. We hang out outside of work, right? Like if I’m always the one texting John, Hey, you want to meet up?
Hey, you want to hang out? And it’s never like, I’m always going to diss you. Thank you, John. And it’s like one sided, like. I get a lot of people that struggle, like, they’re trying to make friends, and they’re trying to do these things, but then it’s like, Emotions get in the way. Yeah. Well, yeah every it always seems like they’re always or they always say like i’m always the one that reaches Out that like we get along when we hang out but like they never reach out and ask me [00:49:00] It’s always me reaching out asking them
Chris Gazdik: So it’s funny victoria and I appreciate your courage and bringing that up and you said that you you have that in in sessions That people talk about
it, but i’m going to maintain Even further that I think we feel that way Just as people when we’re relating to people in close relationships, especially So if we’re being honest.
Mm hmm. Okay, let me back up. I Love that you brought this up Victoria notes It’s perfect because I know I know people might think I’m crazy. But in the way that I look at this I’m gonna maintain that forming and maintaining and as you say John nurturing friendships is super super like meeting greeting mating and dating and what The parallels are, are,
Victoria Pendergrass: are
Chris Gazdik: really interesting.
it is. Like, let’s be honest with it. It is. Yeah. You, you, you just raised feelings that are common [00:50:00] place in close relationships especially. And that has everything to do with, guess what? Emotionally focused therapy that we talk about in marriage counseling, there’s an abandonment and there’s an engulfment and that that was an abandonment perspective with the anxieties of you’re not calling me as much as I call you.
You don’t, you know, it’s like people feel very strongly about this in a lot of ways.
John Pope: I really think we need to do another one of these. I would like to also talk about if somebody leaves in a, in a friendship. And let’s say there’s a betrayal.
Chris Gazdik: Betrayal is another big word.
John Pope: What do you think about that? So…
My sense of it is that you might have somebody during a time of great distress and you need that person and you fully expected that person to be there for you, not even fully expected them, but [00:51:00] you would have been so happy if they had been there for you. And then that person says, well, you, they dish you or they discount what happened.
For example when my wife. Underwent a 13 hour surgery and boy. Yeah, that’s real. She arrested three times And I’m up there by myself and somebody drops by who’s a friend. Yeah, and he and his newlywed wife came by Right, and I said, I don’t know where God is. I don’t know where he is. I don’t feel his presence What’s gonna happen to my wife?
He says well, you just need to have more faith and believe more. Ouch
Chris Gazdik: Yeah I wanted to
John Pope: punch him in the face. It’s never been the same after that. I hope
Chris Gazdik: that you do You know, John, yeah, that’s a powerful moment. He’s still a friend, but he’s not. But you’ve lost a certain amount of trust. You’ve lost that intimacy.
There’s [00:52:00] a hurt that’s there. Right. And I guess I’ll go there. I just had a little debate in my brain. I don’t want to talk too much about that particular situation, but what that makes my brain think about is there, there are. All sorts of circumstances where we see estrangements and, as you say, betrayals and, and we, we hold resentments, you know, towards people and, and, and that, that can, that can destroy a friendship just like it can destroy a marriage.
It’s like it could destroy a family relationship and how many times do we see these different forms and in therapy? So I wonder what can be Recounted there or recovered there or you know Cuz when when a friend betrays you just like a spouse betrays you it doesn’t have to mean the end of the marriage Exactly.
I think
Victoria Pendergrass: and that’s why your parallels to friendship and dating I just love that because even like how we always say how cliche it is, but how we always say like [00:53:00] communication is key In a marriage, in a relationship, it’s, like, the same in a friendship. Like, you gotta be able to talk to each other, you gotta be able to communicate, you gotta be able to say, like, Hey, it pissed me off when you said that thing about I gotta have more faith, you know, or whatever the case might be like that
John Pope: was the worst thing in that moment, but you know, I’ve forgiven them and right, but I still have a slight forget, you know, I’d still
Victoria Pendergrass: there.
Hey, you can forgive, but you don’t have to forget. Not
John Pope: completely. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Well, and we have another YouTube comment that says by the way, is buzzing today. That’s awesome to see you need reciprocation.
Yeah. You know, there’s a balance. In, in, in relationships, there’s, there’s, there are boundaries in relationships, there are also toxicity factors in relationships, like, if you think about a lot of the topics that we’ve talked about in way of relationship, marriage, [00:54:00] and dating.
Just, like, double that towards these types of relationships, particularly, I think, of the, in my scale, at least, you know, the intimate level and the best friend level. And not as much, but still very much, with the good friend level. We’re probably really not talking about fun friends and acquaintances. I mean, those are not what we’re really talking about.
I’m
John Pope: not looking for those. Okay, I’m looking for, I’m looking for a deep relationship. But,
Victoria Pendergrass: I think it’s situational.
Chris Gazdik: What do you mean?
Victoria Pendergrass: What is? Like, what, like at least for me, like what I’m looking for in the moment. Like currently I’m not really looking for any like Deep long term lasting friendships in my life.
I’m satisfied with the people that I have Friends like right now I have a you have enough Like for right now. I have a like for example, I have a fun friend who I met in my previous Job [00:55:00] and, but I feel like she’s slowly becoming a good friend. Right? Well, that’s like, she was the person that, you know, we go to concerts together, we go to like, stuff like that together.
She’s the fun friend. But now we have more in co Like we each have a ki our kids are only like just three weeks to have fi our kids are only like three weeks apart, you know? So now we, it’s more get some things in common building towards like being past that level of trust, passing that trust line.
Yeah. Now, you know, I feel more confident talking or comfort not confident, but comfortable talking to her about, like, deeper topics. And so for me, like I almost would be okay with finding a fun friend who I don’t necessarily have to give a ton of effort to. Or someone that I can just like work out with at the gym and then like we don’t have to talk to each other at all throughout the week, but we just like come to the gym together
Chris Gazdik: or whatever.
John Pope: I like what you’re saying. I don’t know if that would be right for me. I just, I think it’s okay to, to, to have the [00:56:00] acquaintances, the fun friends, the that can go deeper. It’s, it’s, it, you, you could have, I don’t know how many people can have as far as deep and abiding friends. I don’t know how many that is.
Chris Gazdik: Or you can only have like, like you said, 2, 2, 3. Yeah. That’s all I can handle. That’s all. That’s because it just takes so much time and that’s, but John, I think what I would like to say to you in that regard with what Victoria’s saying that I love Victoria, is John, I think you, you do need to be purposeful about thinking about your whole network.
Mm-hmm. , you know, And, and sometimes introverted people do miss this in the sense of, like, I don’t want to put the effort out to make these friends and all. I’m only looking for a certain amount. But then when it comes time to play chess, or when it comes time to play golf, you know, like, If you’re close, the point I’m trying to make is you need to be purposeful about squaring out a certain level for each level.
[00:57:00] Like right now, I kind of need some fun friends. I don’t have a lot of
Victoria Pendergrass: people that I… Yeah, I don’t really have any fun friends right now. Yeah, I
Chris Gazdik: don’t have enough. I need to find a couple of people that I would enjoy. And I actually got a dude that’s in a restaurant that I’ve met. He’s, he’s, he’s a bartender there, a waiter.
And… I think we’re going to go golfing. I’m purposefully, purposefully targeting that. Right. Because it’s something that I do need in my life. But then you’re
Victoria Pendergrass: fine with it just sticking at that. Like, it doesn’t have to go to the deep level of like, tell me all your past traumas, but like, you
Chris Gazdik: know. But that’s all I want right now, like you had said.
That’s kind of alien
John Pope: to my, to my experience. I told you I was
Chris Gazdik: weird about this topic. No, no, no, no. You’re, you’re wonderful.
Victoria Pendergrass: Do you think it also has to depend? Or has to do with, like, where you are in your stage of life. Well, as far as like, yeah, like, I mean,
Chris Gazdik: but let me tell you a quick story of why I’ve thought about it this way.
There was a period of time in my life that I had just gotten moved, just become a parent. We had come to [00:58:00] Charlotte and I really didn’t have really many relationships. And so I joined a softball team and that began to build our social supports. But then later on in life kind of as well, and I built some good friendships from that and all this and that.
But then, you know, remember we talked about the lost decade. I, I turned around one day and I looked at my life and I’m like, dude, I don’t have any friends. Like, I don’t, I don’t really have people that I talk
John Pope: to. Cats in the cradle and the silver spoon.
Chris Gazdik: That’s a big deal, man. Yeah. And I did, so I literally went through, and this is about the time that I developed a friendship with my buddy Joe, because I looked around at my landscape and the things that I was involved in and I was doing, and to your point earlier, Victoria, there were a lot of opportunities around.
There really were. I had church people all around me. I had Cub Scout people all around me. I had all of these sports that my kids were involved in. I’m standing literally during practices and games amongst all of these parents. Like, there were opportunities all around me. And I began to [00:59:00] specifically target, like, A few different people and I struck out a few, you know, like four or five people.
I did. It didn’t work. I got rejected If you would think about it that way. Yeah. So did you, well, no, it’s like a form. Did you protection, did you cry? Your pillow? I did not cry, brother. I’m tougher. Never was . No, I didn’t. And I wasn’t upset. I didn’t hold anything against people. But the point that I’m making is go.
Reach out. I would agree. Yes. A hundred percent. And even if you’re betrayed. Yeah. Rejected. Or you’re struggling. It’s much better to reach out and do this than to sit back and feel lonely.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay, so then what do you say to the person who feels like they’re continually being rejected? Every time they reach out to make friends.
I have clients like that because I have clients like that who’s like, they’re like, I’ve tried the apps. ’cause like, I don’t know if you know Bumble, Bumble the dating app. They have like a Bumble Friends. There’s a [01:00:00] beginning app. Yeah, there. Oh, they
Chris Gazdik: really have one. Yeah, they do. Yeah, I, I’ve heard of that. I was
John Pope: gonna make some money ’cause
Victoria Pendergrass: tried to develop one.
Yeah, there is already one. And there’s other apps like there’s like meetup.com and stuff like that where. You know, to like meet friends and I do have clients who are just like, we’ve, we’ve tried that, you know, we’ve done this, we’ve done that and it’s like, nothing is sticking. So then they look at me or, you know, they look at us, they’re like, what am I doing wrong?
John Pope: Or they want to do the little projection transference and make you a friend
Chris Gazdik: and we can’t be friends. I think there’s so much with that, Victoria. I mean, as I say, we can
Victoria Pendergrass: almost do a part two.
Chris Gazdik: And we need to, because you’re bringing up a little, a really important thing that we’re not going to get to is the online component that exists with this.
And, but, but to your, to your point, John, let’s struggle with that for just a minute. Like, what do you do with somebody, you know, that’s really feeling that way constantly, [01:01:00] repetitively, chronically rejected. Cause that is a thing.
John Pope: That was something that’s, as a result of our post industrial world, there was a, a book in the
Chris Gazdik: 1950s
John Pope: called The Lonely Crowd by David Reisman, and he talked about how you could, there was a sense of a, a, a no me, which is you’re anonymous, you feel like you’re, there’s every people all around you, and yet you don’t have any connection, and people feel somehow it, Ill equipped to make that connection and that’s the problem.
We live in our society. I think to the hundred percent 100 percent and so what one does I think in therapy I try to build resilience There’s a word Okay, that’s a And basically what resilience is, is that to be able to, to draw deep in oneself and to see one’s strengths and possi [01:02:00] possibilities. That one doesn’t just go by the snapshot, one sees the whole experience of being a human.
Right. Yeah, like you said, the human experience. The
Chris Gazdik: human emotional experience. Guys, this is a big area of life. We need to taxi in for a landing today, of friendship and the relationships. They’re super valuable. So guys, give us a closing thought or comments and I’ll take us out of here.
Victoria Pendergrass: Don’t be afraid to put yourself out there.
When you’re trying to, specifically when you’re trying to make friends.
John Pope: I think that, and develop a sense that you can, you know, if you feel crushed by rejection or is that one of the things is you’re stronger than you think you are. There’s more resilience. There’s more there’s more to you, to you that there’s, there’s somebody out there that you can meet.
And you just have to keep at it [01:03:00] and, and be persistent in it. I think, I think that persistence will pay off.
Chris Gazdik: Appreciate you guys comments and thoughts and conversation. It’s a really important topic. Listen, I know that you are feeling lonely at times. It’s almost a universal experience. It seems at this point.
And I hope that our discussion, our conversation at least has triggered your thinking, triggered your, your thoughts and, and. And lifted up your hope that you can really actually have friends. We, we really don’t realize how powerful they are. But listen, emotional support and companionship, simply people to have fun with, feeling connected to, being a part of a community, among, among other things.
You’ve heard us talk about how valuable this is. So reach out, stay with it, deal with the vulnerability and the feelings and the, the, the insecurities, and enjoy the bri the, enjoy the process [01:04:00] of making these things.
John Pope: Friends are fun! Friends are fun, but they’re friends also somebody that’ll put his hand or her hand on your shoulder, or give you a hug, when you least expect it.
Victoria Pendergrass: Absolutely. Wait, nevermind. I’m gonna save it for another day. Reach out in the darkness.
Chris Gazdik: Alright guys, listen, awesome. Yeah, Victoria, we can go on. I was about to say we can go on like another hour. Thanks for listening. Take care, stay well, and we’ll see you next week. Bye y’all.