Holiday Family Traditions, Assertiveness: Are You? Part II – Ep255 

Continuing the conversation from last week about the holidays, this time we look further into more general family holiday traditions. What they mean to you, how they start and when you might possibly want to change them to make new traditions. We then go back to the topic of Assertiveness by looking at why people struggle balancing being too passive or too aggressive. We then look at how you can overcome those tendencies to maintain assertiveness. 

Tune in to see Holiday Family Traditions and Assertiveness Through a Therapist’s Eyes. 

Think about these three questions as you listen:  

  • Do you know what this really is? 
  • Why do people get passive? 
  • Why do people get aggressive 

Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/ 
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/ 
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https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg 

Audio Podcast Version Only 

Episode #255 Transcription 

Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello, greetings, happy holiday season. This is December the 14th. Thank you, Victoria, not to be confused with Vicky. You shouldn’t have told me that. You should have told me that that was a mistake. Before the mics came on, we found out about Icky Vicki Song. We’ll just leave it. You have to go to YouTube to see it.

Listen, this is through a therapist eyes where you get insights directly from a therapist and a panel of therapists, I should say, in personal time in your home and in your car. But it’s not delivery of therapy services in any way. We are covering assertiveness again today. We didn’t really get to get to it a lot last week.

We covered a little bit of a, a really good conversation with Depth about how and when to share family traditions with Santa Claus and things. So that, that was a really good discussion. You wanna [00:01:00] Tune out the kids to that discussion, particularly a fair warning. I really want to say that again, but I think that was a good conversation last time.

The assertiveness questions is, do you know what it really is? We covered that last time. Do you why do people get passive and why do people get aggressive is some of what we want to talk about? Cause the holidays can make us need assertiveness. Would you agree? So we’re also going to get into some, just some.

Holiday traditions we enjoy have a good feeling for holidays and a quick little current event. So the book is out Through a therapist eyes re understanding emotions and the marriage book re understanding your marriage is going to be out in 2024 definitely not 23

Neil Robinson: Do you have the do you have the title squared away?

Because I know that your last book you like for the first three months you kept calling it two different titles.

Chris Gazdik: Yeah re Oh my gosh, I just messed up all your equipment. Yeah, re understanding, for sure, is what it’s gonna be. Not rediscovering, it’s re understanding. I know it [00:02:00] now, I think I know it for good, but don’t mess with me, otherwise I’ll say it wrong.

So re understanding your marriage is being produced. So right now we we’ll get the finalized title and all the books. It’s gonna be fun to produce it. There’s a lot that goes into the production part. Cool. I may ask you your opinions.

Victoria Pendergrass: Of course, I’ll be happy to give my opinion.

Chris Gazdik: What do we want it to look like, I will be asking you.

Five stars on Apple iTunes. What do we do, Spotify? You get really help us out because it helps us grow the show. If you’re listening to us and you haven’t clicked the like button, Dude, you’re failing us! You need to click the like button. This is a human emotional experience and we endeavor to figure this out together.

So I asked John to, to get this current event. bEing that he’s not with us, I’m just going to say what we heard. Truth be told, it was on the skeptics got, so I know that he heard it and they do news stories. And they look at, you know, what’s being studied, what’s being done [00:03:00] in science, and, you know, they kind of go through the particular article and, you know, look at all these kind of new things that are going on in science.

So one of the things they did is they found for the first time a 20 year long study that was done right about the time that the internet came out. And they were trying to find if and how much there was an effect on mental health. The concurrent correlation between increased internet use and mental health impact.

What do you think they would be finding?

Victoria Pendergrass: So there is a correlation between decreased mental health status and an increase in time on the internet.

Chris Gazdik: So increase in use of the internet correlates to a decrease in mental health function. Yeah. Gotcha. What do you think, Neil? Yeah,

Neil Robinson: I agree. To me it seems obvious, but, you know, you gotta get the numbers out there.

It seems obvious that the increase [00:04:00] in internet would decrease the because of all the stuff it does. Why do

Victoria Pendergrass: I feel like you’re gonna tell me that it’s not? Because they

Chris Gazdik: said there’s no impact! What?! I know. I am highly skeptical, though. I chose to make this as a current event. And John may bring up the thing again with the actual study and all this and studies are important, but you got to be careful about what it is that you’re studying and really what you’re not studying and what things show and what they don’t show, right?

So I have a lot of questions about the details of it. This study, but these guys are good and they know good studies and bad studies. They really do. They’ve kind of do, they do a good job for what it’s worth. I love their show and they brought this out for a reason, which surprised me because I have so many questions about the depths of how they did this, this functioning.

And I’m not going to get into it today other than just to say, look, you have to be aware of looking into studies. What [00:05:00] it is that the depths are that you’re researching because I’m willing to make a bet a hard bet a big bet that they Didn’t study social media. I was

Neil Robinson: gonna say that because you can use the internet and be productive and do things But once you get social media involved, we’re not even gaming, you know watching YouTube.

Yes Netflix, you

Chris Gazdik: know, yeah, and so that doesn’t we know that just, you know, just like TV. Everyone’s all fearful. Oh, the boob tube is gonna ruin the kids and we’re gonna be upset. You know, I’m the result of that generation X. Well, that explains a lot. Stop. You’re in about the same zone, bro. So it didn’t TV.

Didn’t radio. Didn’t And increase in technology as fear as it creates doesn’t tend to do that just automatically. And I

Victoria Pendergrass: also think that this study, like how can you, I don’t know, it just seems like there would be a lot of extenuating. Circumstances in someone’s life.

Chris Gazdik: Well, you got to quantify

Victoria Pendergrass: stuff, right?

Yeah, that’s [00:06:00] how exactly are you measuring? Yeah, the direct if the like if there is a direct correlation between where they

Chris Gazdik: used very specific measures very specific scales I mean, it was it was it was well done but I just don’t know what exactly they were, they were, I

Neil Robinson: think, did they look at the age groups to like, that would be one thing I, cause I feel like if you’re 40 when it comes out, you’re, it’s going to affect you a lot different than if you’re 15

Chris Gazdik: or 20 and they broke it down in subsets actually they did and it, and it was so, so two things, one, be careful what you, you know, research or what you hear and how you interpret that.

Right. And to understand that technology doesn’t necessarily, Fairly. Automatically destroy your mental health. Right. Like people

Victoria Pendergrass: fear. It’s the content of Sure. What you’re doing

Chris Gazdik: now, if we, if we took a correlation between the pornographic experience that people are having on the internet and correlate that to your mental health, I wonder if we’d find, or

Victoria Pendergrass: even just like Instagram [00:07:00] or Facebook or tick tock or any, it would be so interesting to see because if, if the study has been over 20 years, then that means it covered when social media Started like, so it would be interesting if they would have actually targeted, targeted social media to see, and maybe even not just the internet, but like social media specifically, like, like I remember there was this, there was this experiment that someone did on Instagram where it was more geared towards like alcoholism, but where they created a fake profile for this girl.

or this lady and in every single photo that she posted she had some sort of alcoholic drink in her hand and the experiment was to see like if people noticed that like everything that she posted she was holding either a wine glass or a cocktail [00:08:00] glass or a beer or some kind of like alcoholic drink and I think they said that like No one, absolutely no one, like, reached out to her, like, messaged the person on the profile and was like, Hey, you good?

Like, and I think, I mean, that was more, but like, it’s just, I just, the impact of social media on our lives. It’s just like fascinates me.

Neil Robinson: It goes back to the, the disconnected connectedness. Now if you, if you were going to lunch or dinner with that person, woman, every time you saw her drinking every time you’d put two together, but with social media, it’s so disconnected.

But yeah, you’re connected. Like you don’t put that concern together, like, Oh wait, she’s always having that drink in her hand. Like, so it’s weird. It’s that weird thing we’ve talked about how social media connects us, but yet keeps us so

Chris Gazdik: disconnected. Right. Such an irony, but absolute. So we wanted to spend a little bit of time, you know, normalizing the holidays or sharing [00:09:00] some fun of the holidays for you because we do know and understand for sure in the therapy world that you have so many things going on in your life right now and And a lot of them are not pleasurable.

A lot of them are filled with hurt and grief and dread and pain. Our therapy experiences in our offices, you know, reflect that. People have a hard time, you know, during this time of year, but we also do have a lot of beauty. We have a lot of fun and family traditions and experiences that, that do build up joy.

And so I wanted to spend a little bit of time with our group. You know to kind of go through some of those if you guys have thought about it i’ll I’ll start like I’m, I’m actually one of those weird kids, you know, I was thinking about how this developed, but you know, when we would get our Christmas presents, you know, everybody’s got a group of presents, right?

And you know, I would always like wait, you know, until all the Christmas presents were open because I really wanted to watch you, Victoria, [00:10:00] getting your gift, like, and particularly if I got or participated in getting you the gift, even as a young kid, right? So, so, and also, I would enjoy when everything was done and quieting down while I still had this pack of gifts that you have to watch.

Me! You know, and that was fun. So you know, that, that, that slowed down gift exchange is, is what I really enjoy and I, and I was thinking about it this year. Why that is the case, because I really, really enjoy that, and I think that’s kind of why. When I was a kid, all this stuff was happening, and I would just like, no, I’m not doing that, I just, I don’t, I would put my gifts and build the stack.

And just watch Neil, you know, open up his stuff. See what he got from Santa and stuff. It was it was weird. You were a weird

Victoria Pendergrass: kid. It’s weird. No, my fam, my family is a one person opens a gift at a time. And we’re like going in a circle. Yeah. I have one person, it takes forever. But if you go crazy with gifts, it

Chris Gazdik: teaches you next year, like calm down.

Yeah. Oh,

Victoria Pendergrass: that’s cool. [00:11:00] Yeah. Yeah. We used to do this thing. So we’re not German. It’s a German tradition. And it’s like German stuff. Yeah. So it’s where when you decorate your tree, you hide a pickle. Oh, in your tree. And well, the tradition, the original tradition is The parents hide whoever decorates the tree hides a pickle on the tree and then Christmas morning or Christmas Eve or something like that the kids Try to find the pickle, and whoever finds the pickle first gets an extra gift

Chris Gazdik: for Christmas.

Oh wow,

Victoria Pendergrass: that is awesome. However, we don’t, we don’t necessarily follow that exact tradition. However, for the last, like, couple long years, maybe like ten plus years, my mom, when I was still living at home, my mom did that. She would hide a pickle, and then I don’t really know if my brother ever tried to find it, but [00:12:00] I would always be like so excited to come home when I was in college and when I was in grad school so that I could find the pickle.

And even now as a married woman, like I like going home and I try to find the pickle. I have never heard of that before. Now this year, and I’ve done it with my husband because I usually decorate the tree and I’ll hide the pickle. And then when people come over, we try to like, we see if they can find the pickle.

And then this year, my husband, before we had to undecorate our tree because of our toddler, we, we took turns, like I hit it first. And then when my husband found it, he moved it. And then I had to find it and then I moved it. And then he, like, we kind of played back and forth of like taking turns, but it’s so Southern, like we don’t really.

No one gets an extra gift, but it’s fun to kind of just like, yeah, Honestly, I mean, it’s the green pickle on a green tree Yeah So and then if your tree is like super full and you’ve got [00:13:00] ribbon and you’ve got like stem Sticking out of it. It can’t be quite

Chris Gazdik: hard to find our house would maybe be a detriment to that is my wife has always I just really loved a lot of lights like I’m talking about I will take a string of lights, roll it up three times and stuff it into one section and repeat that process all around the tree.

I’m talking about lights inside the tree, outside the tree and wrapped around the tree followed by the same thing with red lights, although less red lights than white lights. You have to wrap twice and stick it in all around so we have a lot of lights on our tree Yeah, I

Victoria Pendergrass: mean, that’s cool because you can get creative and hiding it.

I mean it it’s just something fun that we do and I Get a kick out of it and I like it and that’s fun.

Chris Gazdik: That’s absolutely now Neil Do you think you each said pickle? No,

Victoria Pendergrass: it’s I [00:14:00] think it’s I think it’s a fake one. It’s

Chris Gazdik: an ornament. You have to go real

Victoria Pendergrass: Okay, well, no. Oh yeah, it’s

Chris Gazdik: a pickle, it’s a German thing, I’m sure they had a

Victoria Pendergrass: real pickle when you were a kid.

I don’t want my Oh, yeah. Tree. Oh, yeah. In my living room to smell like a pickle.

Neil Robinson: Well, yeah. No. Well, that’s funny because one of the times when our kids were younger, we talk about the whole Santa Claus thing. My kid had his Christmas list and it was weird stuff, like random out of the blue stuff. And of course my, that was fun for my wife and me because we actually literally made everything and he wanted a fake pickle.

And so literally I like crumbled newspaper and then taped it and then I painted it. It looked actually really good for a pickle, but it’s really. It’s, it goes back to that thing. When your kids are younger, you do a lot of stuff for them to follow that. Make believe when they get older, it’s different, but yeah,

Chris Gazdik: that’s what you guys do, Neil, which something comes to my mind, your mind for

Neil Robinson: we do Belgian waffles on Christmas morning, I’ll get up and I’ll literally do like homemade Belgian waffle mix and like put the yeast in it, let it rise.

And then we do like a whole Belgian waffle like thing. And [00:15:00] it’s funny this year, Mason was. Talking to I think Alicia’s sister and I’m like, yeah, we’re gonna do Belgian waffles on Christmas day. And he’s like, he’s excited about it And I’m like, that’s the goal cuz my dad did it, you know He talked about the I came from two different with my parents divorcing my mom’s when I was with my mom for Christmas It was free fall.

You had your toys on the tree and you just go at it but with my dad and my stepmom it was literally like we would sit there and we would Do stockings and my stepmom would wrap everything in the stockings you go would go one at a time So, so what we would do, right. So my stepmom was actually raised by depression, depression parents.

So she like, we had to like learn to be very careful cause she would reuse the wrapping paper and it became endearing. It was awesome. But we would like get up and we would do like my, I would help my dad make the batter and then we’d like open up the stockings and then. By the time we got through all the stockings, cause it’s all these little pieces, the, the batter would rise and then we’d take a break and we’d eat Belgian waffles and then we’d [00:16:00] come back and actually do the regular gifts.

And so that was, but had coming from both sides of the chaos and overcontrol, I actually liked the one at a time. I’m I feel weird, but But you get to watch the person’s enjoyment. You see what it is, you get to the whole thing. But here’s an interesting take. When you guys got married, how hard was the, like deciding what traditions you stuck with and which was, cause we, we, that’s a big thing.

Like we didn’t have arguments, but it was like my, my wife was very Adam about like, she wanted to do presents the night before and then you would put stuff out from Santa, whatever. And that was always her thing. And me and my mom would like, I don’t know if she just procrastinated. Maybe that’s where I get it from.

I dunno if she just went shopping the night of Christmas Eve, I don’t know. But she would always bring the presents in while we were sleeping. And we’d have no presents on Christmas Eve. You’d have a bunch the next day. So we had two completely different

Chris Gazdik: ways we did it. Yeah. And we would do family presents than Christmas Eve.

And Seriously. And then Santa is only, only Santa on Christmas morning in our

Victoria Pendergrass: house [00:17:00] it was, it was Santa presents were unwrapped. Yeah, yeah, there’s and then Chris stuff and my husband and I literally had We literally had this discussion the other night because we were talking about it, you know, like how’s our kid gets older?

He was like no Santa presents are wrapped and I was like no Santa presents are unwrapped We

Neil Robinson: don’t wrap our Santa presents.

Victoria Pendergrass: I was like And we went back and forth and I was like, okay, well, Santa may have wrapped your presence, but Santa didn’t wrap my presence. What a fight! Like, we’re gonna fight.

Chris Gazdik: Well, it’s awesome that you asked that and bring that up.

I mean, I’m not gonna, we’re gonna get to assertiveness here now. I think we need to move. You have to be assertive to get your traditions. That’s right. But, but really, it’s a fascinating thing to me, Neil. And Victoria, you are right in the middle of it as new parents, right? Because the kid triggers those.

That longing for what did we do as a kid and I want to do that with my kid And but some of them [00:18:00] directly are opposites. And so you you really do go into a a a really dynamically cool blending of two whole family cultures, sometimes three or four, which is step parents and that type of thing involved.

It’s really cool. And, and you know what? You create your own. That’s what’s, that’s, what’s beautiful about it. And, and look at our, such a small group sample size. We have so many different little. Facets about unwrapped and wrapped and timing and you know how things are done all at once or separate or pickles and you know Waffles and we have the upside down pineapple cake I like to call it the upside down cherry pineapple turn cake because I make up names for it, right?

But I love that, you know So we all have our thing you out there have your things as well, and I really want you to enjoy What you can enjoy this holiday season for the Christmas holiday. Very special times for family and friends. So

let’s get to the assertiveness stuff a little bit. We didn’t get to, get to a whole lot last time.

[00:19:00] Neil, I guess I’m going to turn to you since we, we were like, you know, rambling on and stuff and, and, and you were listening. What, what do you remember about how. you know, understanding assertiveness and how it was defined. And I mean, I know that we hated the fact that you know, the definition we came up with the quality of being confident and not frightened to say what you want to say was was where we landed versus the forceful behavior discussion.

And, you know, we talked about boundaries and how boundaries are developed and set and how assertiveness is a part of that. Like, you know, did you get a good sense of what is assertiveness and how the beginning stages of using it and managing it all is how. How’d we do? And what do you recall?

Neil Robinson: No, I think we did a really good job.

I think for the first little bit, we got to right. And, but I think, I think it is funny with the definitions about, you know, cause the idea of being forceful is not what you want. That’s more of aggression than it is assertiveness, you know? And then I [00:20:00] love the, the thing you brought up at the end about the requirements and the boundary setting.

Like those are some things that I thought was really cool, cool pieces of it. I know Victoria was kind of like requirements. Yeah, I

Victoria Pendergrass: was a little, real confused.

Neil Robinson: But it was new

Chris Gazdik: to me, honestly,

Neil Robinson: yeah. And I talked to my wife, I said, I really like that piece of it because like I said, the idea is you’re bringing your requirements, you’re being assertive with what you want when you’re setting the boundaries.

And so I think that’s a really neat dynamic or a statement to put when you’re telling people you need to set boundaries. It’s not always about going into boundaries. With the goal of negotiating the goal of boundaries is going in with your requirements and then you might negotiate if there is a give and take.

But I think that’s, I thought that was a fantastic thing you brought

Chris Gazdik: last week. That’s cool. And Neil, I appreciate that feedback because what I’ve always kind of said, well, not always, but for a very, very long time. You develop boundaries by long term norms and agreements that you create together.

And I was talking to, in [00:21:00] therapy that last week a very situation where the boundaries that we were talking about was with his developing ex wife is separated and they’re, they’re going to be divorced. You don’t necessarily have agreements there. nor any long term norms because everything’s up in the air and so we worked on the idea that, you know, expressing what you require in discussing things and moving forward is, is certainly a part of sometimes, excuse me, very healthy.

Boundary settings. So yeah, and that, that takes a lot of assertiveness at times. So let’s, let’s move on a little bit to really understanding, you know, why, why we want this, what, what are the benefits of assertiveness? I mean, it, it, it, it, you really do need to listen to the segment. Half the show last time, you know, the last half half last last half of the show Last time is what you want to get.

Dang. That was hard to say. That’s episode Episode [00:22:00] 254 the second half to really get a good idea on a long dive on what these definition is in understanding it But why do we want it? What are the benefits? What do you really think about guys particularly you Victoria in working like so I feel like intensely with people in therapy to get this.

What, why do we benefits want it? Why do we need it? What do we u do it, use it for Well, you’re gonna

Victoria Pendergrass: assertiveness, you’re gonna, you’re gonna have like improved communication or I like to say effective communication, right? Because I, my example is all the time is I can punch a hole in the wall right here.

And yes, it’s communicating that I’m. angry, but is it effectively communicating that I’m angry? No. This could be important. So, in order, like, so it’s gonna help your communication. I think it’s also just gonna help, like, your overall relationship with people. If, if I’m not wrong,

Chris Gazdik: I think. I think you’re [00:23:00] terribly wrong.

I’m just kidding. Of

Victoria Pendergrass: course not. No, I’m just kidding. But I mean, I think overall, like, it just helps the bigger picture in your relation, I mean, your relationship with the person. Because when you’re assertive and you can actually, like, communicate what you want, then things can actually happen, things can actually be

Chris Gazdik: done.

Well, you know, yeah, it, to me, it has a lot to do with relationships, obviously. Assertiveness implies really, like, being, one of the parts of the definitions we came to, being able to feel safe and comfortable and confident enough to say Or do, for that matter, you know, what it is that we feel we need to say or do.

Because don’t we have assertiveness sometimes expressed through nonverbal communication? Just as much as verbal communication? Right?

Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, when I look at my kid

Chris Gazdik: like She’s giving me the mom look, Neil!

Victoria Pendergrass: You better put that toy down, is what I’m saying with my look! Don’t

Chris Gazdik: do that, right? [00:24:00] So, it really is about relationship.

And, we’re gonna talk a little bit Here now are in a moment about why people get passive and why people get aggressive because that is the opposite of assertive It’s the polar extends of the continuum and you know I wanted to think about like, why do we really want this? Because it’s, I feel like it’s so little used, but so very important in really relating to people being assertive.

Yeah. Like, I don’t think people are good at this.

Victoria Pendergrass: No, because after we talked about it last week, you know, I have themes that follow. Oh dear. I feel like I have talked my head off about assertiveness this past week since

Chris Gazdik: last Thursday. Maybe that’s a good thing. And I kept saying Personally

Victoria Pendergrass: or professionally?

Professionally. Like, I’m like, oh, we just talked about this on the podcast. And so, I mean, I don’t think [00:25:00] that, I think people come into therapy. Seeking to work on other things. And then assertiveness is one of those like underlying issues. Like, Oh, if I’m just like, you know how we talked about last week, how assertiveness and confidence can kind of like go hand in hand.

And so I think it’s the same with like other things. You know, when people talk about, Oh, I’m struggling with my communication. Oh, I’m struggling with boundaries. Oh, I’m struggling, struggling with making connections with people. Do it. It’s like all that stuff. Okay. Well, you need to work on being assertive, you know, like being a servant is going to help all.

All those things, and more.

Chris Gazdik: You’re totally nailing what I was trying to get to, Victoria, right? Because you don’t think about this in a lot of those contexts. And you’re right, and I hadn’t really pieced that in my mind, so I love what you’re talking about, because people do unintentionally come to therapy [00:26:00] wanting to get exactly this, but don’t even know it.

Because it applies to so many different ways, like you were just saying there. Like, I love that. Neil, let me check in with you with what you’re hearing, because I think, you know, this is something that we see in a therapy office. You just confirmed, Victoria, like, all over the place. Oh, yeah. How do you see this in the world, you know, like, when you’re dealing with people through computers and, and the stuff that you do?

Does that make, you know? Well, I,

Neil Robinson: I mean, honestly, right now we see it in our house. We have two teenage boys who wrestle and when they come home and complain about the coaches and like, they want me to make this weight and I don’t want to do that. I’m like, you need to stand up and tell them what you want.

You need to be like, so, and I think that’s very important for teenagers nowadays because you know, I think that is a problem where you have people your age, my age that assertive kind of like went away in the world for whatever reason. And I, When I was growing up, [00:27:00] my stepmom would always say I was too, I had an ego and she’s, I need to work on my humility.

I’m like, it’s a confidence thing you have to, and I feel like for time was like, they thought like having an ego or having like being confident was a bad thing. And I feel like that has been so ingrained. That they’ve lost assertiveness and

knocked us down, right? Exactly. But it’s not, it’s not good. It goes back to social media.

It goes back to, you know, it’s just, and so I think assertive needs, needs to be addressed, especially for young teenagers. They need to be very confident in what they want and believe. And like I said, with my boys, you know, you call me old school, but I think boys need to be able to stand up and they, the coaches, you want to assert yourself as what you want.

And so I’m really dealing with it now, as I got one kid about, you know, you’re. You’re just left. Mine’s going to leave soon. And then another one just started high school. So there’s these life changes, but assertiveness, I, the fact that you say stress reduction, I didn’t think about if you’re, if you’re assertive, you’re going to have less anxiety because you’re going to be more confident in what [00:28:00] you’re asking for or what you want.

I never like, that’s a really big thing. Yeah. It’s like, it’s like, yeah, that makes sense because if you’re assertive in what you want and you know it and you feel confident in asking for it, or you know, putting your stuff out there, you’re not going to be anxious about What are they going to say or what’s going on?

Or, you know, how are they going to react? Or

Chris Gazdik: will I get what I want? Or do I even have a chance? Or, and just to jump in, you’re like, because people I fear will just hear a certain sentence that you just said and go with like, Oh, well, being good at being assertive, what you want, that’s being forceful, it’s being aggressive.

That’s standing your ground. Right. No, no, and no. Right? So you’re not teaching your kid to be arrogant and aggressive. It’s different, isn’t it? Right. You’re

Neil Robinson: putting your car in my And it goes back to the same thing with You want to be respectful of the other people. Like, you don’t want to be like You know, you’re trying to park your car.

I’m like, I want that spot. And you ram into the other car. That’s a little too aggressive. But,

Victoria Pendergrass: you know Oh, [00:29:00] have y’all ever seen fried green tomatoes?

Neil Robinson: I have not, but my, oh, I know where you’re from because my wife is, my insurance is Tawanda!

Victoria Pendergrass: She like takes, okay, you don’t have to watch it. But no, okay, so it’s about, it’s this lady is trying to park and these like young teenage young women like in their nice like convertible car whip into the spot and she’s like tries to keep her cool.

And then she said to Wanda, you have to watch the movie to understand that. And then she like takes her car. She yells to Wanda and then she like takes her car and repeatedly rams it into this car that took her parking spot and then like drives off in her beat up car. That’s still drivable. I’m

Chris Gazdik: laughing because just literally last night at a restaurant that I’ll remain undisclosed, I was hanging out with the owner and she was.

talking to me because the place was busy and I go there on Wednesdays and I have my spot and she’s like, they have your spot. And I’m like, I know they have my spot. She’s like, I will go and [00:30:00] stare at them and I will make them move. No, no, no, no. She actually walked up to the person at the bar that I wanted to sit.

I was like, oh, no, no, no, don’t do that. You know, but she knew the patron that was there. Was it your usual one? Oh yeah, absolutely. Great. So it’s like. You know, assertiveness is not these things. Right. This is, this is aggressive.

Victoria Pendergrass: This is crossing the line. This is crossing the

Chris Gazdik: line. It’s being mean. It’s being forceful.

And, you know, that’s the opposite side of passive. Being a doormat. And, and, and, and, Neal, you’re trying to get your son to not be passive. You know, people do not understand what the mid zone is, where we want to be. And that is assertive, not aggressive. Not passive, but we suck honestly at being in that Yeah.

In that middle space. So I’m glad you’re teaching, teaching him how to do

Neil Robinson: that. Trying to. And we’re doing with both of them too. And so we got, I got like, [00:31:00] once we get with one, we’re going to deal with the other. And the funny thing is, is the two personalities you talk about, like my oldest, if he doesn’t get what he wants or he has anxiety, he’s going to get aggressive and he’s going to get to that point where he’s just, it’s just going to

blow and he’s gonna, cause we, we, he had an issue with the ex girlfriend that instead of talking to her and asserting what he wanted, it’s like he ended up.

I’m kind of freaking out, but then my youngest is the opposite. He’s passive. He’ll literally like, if he doesn’t get one, he’ll just get. So it’s funny that like, I literally have both sides of that spectrum. And so I’m trying to get them to like, you don’t want to say be like your brother. But in this case, like I say that to both of them, like Mason, you need to be like Luke and kind of tone down, kind of lay back, Luke, you got to like, step up a little bit and you got to find that middle ground.

So it’s kind of funny that I’m dealing with both

Chris Gazdik: sides and I love that. Right. And, and I want to build in, like, we have a comment on YouTube that I think is absolutely on point. And, and so it said that people can be afraid of hurting someone’s feelings. Right. That’s [00:32:00] something that happens when you’re engaging in relationship to others.

And and she says that, but if, if you’re not assertive, you’ll hurt someone anyway. And I think that’s so true. What you’re finding in the different ways with, with both boys and opposite directions. I mean, if you’re aggressive, you’re obviously going to hurt somebody, Victoria. If you slam your car into the lady’s car, right.

But you’re also hurting people sometimes when you’re passive, right? Well, you’re hurting yourself. Well, you’re hurting yourself for sure, but even other people, though, I want to make the point. You know, being silent, not really telling somebody what you’re thinking, not really telling somebody what you need or what you want, ends up being complete mystery.

And for some people, Victoria, like us in the abandonment realm, right? Yeah. How do we handle that? Like, not well, right? Not well. You see all of her non verbals. She didn’t say anything. Yeah, I’m sorry. I forget. Off in the myriad of ways. It’s torturous. It’s torturous. I

Victoria Pendergrass: mean, I tell people all the time [00:33:00] when we’re, when I work with people on boundaries, like being assertive and setting boundaries is that sometimes setting boundaries means you’re going to like hurt someone’s feelings.

Yeah. Hopefully not. But sometimes, but like I always say, usually if they get upset defensive about it, it’s cause they were benefiting from you not having that

boundary there in the first place. Right. And that was hurting you. And so like, you got to take care of your own mental health. And sometimes that means, like, doing things that might be slightly uncomfortable

Chris Gazdik: for other people.

It’s very uncomfortable because if you’re passive, to get a little aggressive is very pushing the limits. If you tend to be aggressive and you become less, you know, so, and become more passive, that also gets out of your comfort.

Neil Robinson: Well, I think also like if, if you set a boundary and it really makes the other person upset and like distraught about it, if it’s a legitimate boundary, it makes you question the relationship or, or what issues the other person has to work through.

Because [00:34:00] if they’re really in, In the relationship to win the real, like be in it. Like they shouldn’t be hurt when you come across, they look, I need you to start doing this or I need this. Like, yeah, that’s one of those things you got to start thinking like, well, is the, is the problem the boundary or is it the other person that doesn’t like the boundary?

And so. But once again, once again, you have to come up with your requirements and then you negotiate from there. So I

Chris Gazdik: like those requirements. I do, man.

Victoria Pendergrass: He was the one that explained it to me last week.

Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Now, hopefully you go at it more Neil with. It’s starting in the agreement zone and negotiating how we’re going to operate.

Just like for instance, Victoria and her husband, Josh, like working hard to figure out what are going to be our Christmas traditions, you know, we don’t need to come at this conversation with requirements. We need to come at them with. Like ideas.

Victoria Pendergrass: How can we blend the two families? Right. It’s,

Chris Gazdik: it’s, it’s a sharing and a blending and [00:35:00] an agreement level.

I mean, that’s really what we want.

Neil Robinson: Well, if, if you have a relationship with the person, you should, you should come across as you talk about. You do, naturally. Yeah. It’s, it’s that, that’s those norms you’ve kind of created over time. And so you should come at it pseudo like. You’re

Chris Gazdik: likely going to have a lot of agreements anyway.

Yeah.

Victoria Pendergrass: Well, and I think I tell people or work with a lot of people too on it. It’s sometimes also about the intent behind, like if I’m setting this boundary with the intent to harm you, okay, that’s different than if I’m setting this boundary with the intent to make our relationship better. Right? And like, there’s a difference.

Yeah, it’s a

Chris Gazdik: big difference. Yeah, there’s, there’s a big difference. Yeah, Carolyn says on, on YouTube Live, like, that she loves this topic and something she’s working on with, you know, which, as we say in the beginning of the show, Carolyn, you know, yeah, we’re really trying to endeavor to figure this out together because these are not easy.

things to do. They really are not. I wanted to make a note of the emotionally [00:36:00] focused therapy patterns, right? And before we do, let’s kind of take a moment to honor and mention our sponsor. Neil, do you remember who is the sponsor?

Neil Robinson: I believe it’s First Horizon

Chris Gazdik: Bank. And why do we like first horizon bank as our sponsor?

Because they’re awesome.

Neil Robinson: Yeah, they’re awesome. Great, great, great locations, great branches, great people. They want to focus on your, you know, Evan was all about financial literacy and just like anything else in today’s time, there’s a lot of foundational stuff. We don’t know young people don’t know. And the fact that they help you get there and it’s a great place to go.

You don’t, the anxiety of going to the bank is not there. Cause it’s a great down home. You know, down home bank that you can just go in and do your any financial services you

Chris Gazdik: need. They have all the typical things that banks do. I gather loans, loan structures you know, debt calculators, mortgage, mortgage calculators, people that are sitting there ready to help you You know, your financial planning credit card processing, [00:37:00] you know, they really do care about financial literacy and carrying the level of service that you would expect from a bank in excellent fashion.

Any thought, Ms. Victoria, who is we talking about? In these parts. First horizon. All right. Thanks. We’ll get back to the show with assertiveness. So, emotionally focused therapy is you know, we’ve talked about on a show several times. You got, you know, Engulfment people that tend to withdraw and abandonment people that tend to pursue.

Yeah, jump on and, you know, go at it. So, the trouble with both of those is, is that when you’re withdrawing, you tend to be more passive in laying things out between two people. And when you tend to be, you know, abandonment, Victoria’s giggly because she knows what’s coming, right? Like you tend to be more aggressive about what it is that you put out there.

So if the intensity of [00:38:00] what you’re feeling is there, and you just think about your marital fights, right? Think about your marital disagreements. Do you tend to be in the middle or do you tend to do what you do? Withdraw or pursue when you get triggered and in a highly anxious state, as difficult as it is to be assertive in the middle.

The point that I’m really making is when you get worked up, this action, and becomes even more important to do so, this actually becomes so much harder to do. Doesn’t that suck? Like, you know, it’s unfortunate that when you need it the most, calm, compassionate, clear, direct, you know, assertiveness, that you’re going to fall into the trap of being either loud and aggressive, obnoxiously to a certain extent, so Or quiet and withdrawn, passive and not letting the other person know what you’re even thinking, unfortunately.[00:39:00]

Have you thought about it in those terms? Is it making sense? We’re, let me get a sense of where this is landing with yours.

Neil Robinson: I like that you called the abandonment people obnoxious. That fit really well.

Chris Gazdik: I’m rolling my

Victoria Pendergrass: eyes.

Neil Robinson: Oh, you’re on camera. They can see

Victoria Pendergrass: that. Well, I’m rolling my

Neil Robinson: eyes. No, it does make sense and, you know, I’m looking at my relationship, you know, I’ll be married 20 years next week.

So we’ve had a. Congratulations, bud. Congrats. Yeah. It’s, it’s been awesome. As far as she’s still with me. But it’s, it’s funny cause I am very engulfment. She’s very abandonment. And so I, I, I know there’s been many times in our relationship where we, we’ve been the kind of like at that stalemate cause I’m like, just leave me alone.

I’m, I’m, let me process it. And she’s like, Yeah. Tell me what you’re feeling. Like, leave me alone. Tell me what you’re feeling. Leave me alone. Like, so, so it’s kind of it. But yeah, in those moments, it is really hard to, as someone who’s passive, get that confidence to say what’s going [00:40:00] on. And then on the abandonment side is not to over overstep and take over the conversation.

Cause you know, we’ve had that too. I’ll say something and she’ll come back at me and I’m like, this is why I don’t tell you anything. That’s why I just. Keep quiet, you know, and so, but yeah, it does make sense. And, but in a relationship it’s, there’s a growth process as you balance that. And honestly, one of the big things too in our relationship is you start getting that safety net of knowing that other person.

Chris Gazdik: Safety is a really

Neil Robinson: important word. You start getting to where now I feel more comfortable saying what I feel and she’s getting more comfortable like knowing, oh, I don’t have to. Burst out because I know that I can talk to him or she knows that I’m just careless or I do something out of the like, she understands it.

It’s different. And so, but it takes years to improve to get

Chris Gazdik: to that point. It really does take years for trust to improve to get to a place where you can be calm and grounded in your own skin so that you’re more enabled to be assertive. It [00:41:00] takes a long, a long time. Let’s look at a little bit at first at why people then get into this.

I alluded to the insecurities that you might see with emotionally focused therapy. Abandonment and engulfment being primary. But there are things that get into, like, what makes people tend to be passive, or what makes p

to be aggressive. You know, if we just think about it in basic terms, I mean, probably, like it was said on the YouTube live, you know, People being really fearful of upsetting other people isn’t that like a universal like I hate confrontation,

Victoria Pendergrass: right?

I don’t like it. I don’t either it’s funny though. Because when I sit in my therapist chair I’ll be direct confrontational all day long with my clients, like, you know, to help them see their self. When I go home, the instant I leave that office, I’m like, nope, I don’t want it, I don’t want it.

Chris Gazdik: Same, because when your emotions are triggered or engaged, that tends to [00:42:00] create that ambivalence.

That seems

Neil Robinson: backwards to me. Does it? As two abandonment people? How are you guys not the confrontational people? Like I understand from my side, like if same thing, like I understand going home and be like, Oh, I’m mad at something. I’ll just go, but you guys being abandonment, both of you hating non confrontational abandonment, like how does that jive with you guys?

That’s weird. Okay.

Victoria Pendergrass: For me, I don’t know about Chris, but for me, I think it’s sometimes I, okay. So like abandonment people. You are afraid the other person’s gonna leave you, so you’re like, on top of it, you want to figure things out immediately, like, whatever. Because you don’t want to be abandoned, right?

You have the fear of being abandoned. So I think sometimes with conflict, I’m afraid to bring up conflict because I’m afraid it might lead to someone abandoning me. If that makes sense. 100%. And so then, therefore, like, if I don’t, if I I’m mad at my husband, for example, [00:43:00] but I don’t want to talk about it because then I’m, I don’t want to, like, be assertive and bring it up because then I have this fear in my brain that, like, , he’s gonna get fed up with me and like, leave me Absolutely.

And a abandon

Chris Gazdik: me, or I’ll be alone for a night. Yeah. Or something along those lines. Yeah. Neil, I’m glad this came up this way, and you post that because, but

you did bring the point because the, it is a, it is an awesome thought process and, and, and one that I think needs to really be normalized so that we all really understand each other.

The same fear of conflict can be there for totally and opposite different reasons. You just, I think, honestly, expertly described the fear that leaves us to shut up because we don’t want to piss you off and make you leave, but the same thing is I’m going to be fear of conflict because I don’t want to receive more criticism and more control and more loudness.

That shuts me down, so it really does. We, you know, people do not. feel [00:44:00] confident and good. That’s why it is actually universal with, with conflict. It, it, it raises our, just, you know, our threatened state with, with adrenaline and cortisol and you know, the, the, the nervous system, the fight or flight or freeze system that comes in, man, it hits us all.

It just may be for exactly opposite diametrically opposite different reasons, Neil. Does that make sense? It’s an awesome thought. No, it

Neil Robinson: does. It does make sense.

Victoria Pendergrass: You bring up a good point of like why you would be confused by that.

Neil Robinson: Like I said, it’s just, it’s just like, like I’m a, I’m a Bannerman and I, and I want to say what’s going on, but it’s like, I

Chris Gazdik: hate conflict.

But guess what happens when there’s no conflict? Yeah, we’re going to blow her mind out with everything that we think and everything that we want and everything that we’re going through, right? Cause there’s no conflict. Yeah, exactly. It can be annoying now.

Victoria Pendergrass: What’s that? I said, yes, we can be annoying. A

Chris Gazdik: lot.

Neil Robinson: But knowing my wife talking to her, I can be very annoying as well. So it’s, [00:45:00] it’s funny how it just, it’s just different. Humans are humans

Chris Gazdik: in a different, in a different way. And indeed, but if you think about passivity. There is the fear of conflict. I think that really goes both ways. But there’s also, I think, you know approval seeking more so than than anything else with, you know, you know, getting in into into yourself internalizing, you know, you don’t want criticism, you don’t want to be controlled.

So you will withdraw and pull in and therefore approval seeking, you know, becomes even more louder. Than, than with, with other people that, that tend to be more aggressive and, and, and, and louder about their thoughts because there’s, there’s poor anger management or poor emotion control, poor ability to, to, to, to really contain yourself.

And, and it does operate in opposites, you know? Abandonment people te need to tend to learn how to control, internalize, and settle themselves down. And ban [00:46:00] engulfment people need to be able to learn how to, like, you know, put out their their thoughts and, and, and be damned whether somebody is in approval of that or, or, or not.

And then you got the universal fear of conflicts. And I think it’s also a little bit universal about people that kinda learn. How to engage either passively or aggressively. Some, some of this really is modeled in our lives and we learn how it goes. You know, in the rules of, of interaction.

Right, so let’s go on a little bit to how do we overcome this stuff? What do we do to to get you know the people you might listening saying like okay great I understand what you know being assertive. It is okay. Are you great? I get why we want to be assertive Okay, I get why it’s difficult because you know all this emotional crap going on.

How do I overcome it? Right? Victoria, you’ve been thinking about this a lot in sessions and talking about it this week. It sounds like a lot. Have you figured out with anybody? Have they told you? [00:47:00] Have you told them? What have you figured out about how do we get over this thing? I mean,

Victoria Pendergrass: I think some of it goes back to what we talked about last week with confidence, which then leads into like self esteem, self worth.

All those things. Self love, all, you know, all the selves things. Self, self, self, self, self, self, self. Not self sabotaging, but Not selfish, you know. Yeah. But the other ones. And, you know, I mean, like, I do a lot of mindfulness. You know, you know me, I’m a big mindfulness fan. I end literally every, anyone who’s a client of mine knows I end every session with a deep breath.

Oh good. That’s interesting. And sometimes they do it with me. Sometimes they don’t, but that’s okay. But yeah, like mindfulness being, because I mean, for those that don’t know, mindfulness is about being like in the here and now, in the present, being aware, things like that. So sometimes being like that, you can learn to become [00:48:00] assertive.

By being present and being aware of, like, your surroundings, what’s needed, where you’re at, what you’re doing, why you’re here.

Chris Gazdik: Sometimes she just stops, Neal. That’s it! That was

Victoria Pendergrass: the end of my sentence! In mid session. That was the end of my sentence! I

Chris Gazdik: was loving your go! Go, girl! And then she just, like, Staring at me. I’ve actually wanted to say that on air for a long

Victoria Pendergrass: time, Victoria. What? That I just stopped being sensitive? Yeah.

Sometimes you’re just like, boom. Yeah, it’s just my ADHD. You’re

Chris Gazdik: just, you’re just like, boom. Have you

Victoria Pendergrass: never talked to someone who has ADHD? You talk to me every day. Indeed, indeed, indeed. Basically. Five

Chris Gazdik: days a week. So to play off what you’re talking about, here’s, here’s some real thought guys in the moment that I just kind of connect.

Okay. Give it to us. Right. Truly and fully in real connections in the moment. Because you remember, we were talking about this last time and I was like, Oh, wait a minute. It’s kind of cool. I was working it out in my mind. Is, is assertiveness, [00:49:00] uh, remember John and I were interacting with this. Mm hmm. Is assertiveness actually the steady state, the, the, where we begin?

Oh, yeah, that’s right. And, and, and what we have as almost, you know, normal reflexive, normal, ingrained tendency as a baby, when we, when we, when we pop out and we’re dealing with stuff like, you know, when you pop out, you come out into the world and you’re going, you, you have like reflexes to assertively let the world know, Neil, what you need, what you want, what you’ve got to have.

Are you saying, are you saying

Neil Robinson: your requirements? Ooh,

very good.

Chris Gazdik: Very good. You know what? I am so glad this occurred to me, you’re right, because they are the baby’s requirements to the world, and they convey those in a natural state, right? You know, and then all these things begin to [00:50:00] happen, where people don’t listen, or we get scowls and irritations from our daddy, or our mommy, and you know, we start Like picking up all these human cues and all this stuff.

Sometimes in horrible situations such as neglect, you know, you learn it’s not even worth it to cry. I’m not going to get food. It doesn’t matter. or If you learn, wow, this parent’s over responsive. If I’m loud and tantrum, they get it quick. And so when you talk about building self esteem and learning how to manage your emotion and, you know, building up communication skills and mindfulness and taking breaths and all these things, you know, maybe we could really simplify it and say, we’re trying to manage our.

Unwanted or destructive emotional states to return to that normal steady state that we started from in the first [00:51:00] place, which is assertive, and then got away from it. This is literally switching completely. 360 degrees in my head. Does that make sense? You mean 180? 180, yeah. 360 would be where I began.

Thank you. It’s a 180 change. How’s this landing? What are you guys hearing? And have I just rambled on to somewhere that doesn’t

Victoria Pendergrass: make sense? I mean, think, based off last week, I agree, I would agree with you about what we talked about last week, that possibly we are re learning how to be assertive. Yeah. In our, like, adulthood.

Or whatnot.

Neil Robinson: I don’t know, it’s, it’s an ebb and flow, I think, because, and just like anything else in, in, in life, there’s always, as we talked about, you know, mental health. Now there’s more mental health awareness, but we don’t know how the tools yet to deal with it. There’s been, but before our generation was, we’d shut down our emotions.

So I think in life we go through an ebb and flow, you’re overly assertive parents and life kicks you down and be like, hang on. It’s not just about you. So then you become [00:52:00] overly considerate and then you get to, then, then you, then you start, then you start finding that balance of, Oh wait, how do I get what I need and still live within the realms of my world?

And so I think that’s just kind of the ebb and flow of life. It’s just like any other situation with kids. When a new kid goes to school. They kind of feel like, okay, how, how assertive can I be or how aggressive can it be with my friends here or more timid and you kind of, and then you get that balance.

But I think that’s always the human nature. Anytime there’s a relationship, there’s a balance. Do you be assertive? Do you be less? Is it like what’s going on? And so I do think naturally our human survival is we need what we need. We’re aggressive, assertive to get it. And then we just figure out how do we balance this in life?

What are you singing? Human

Victoria Pendergrass: nature. I don’t know. I was like, what’s going on over there with Miss Victoria? I had a John moment. He said human nature, so I started singing.

Chris Gazdik: Well, sing it because John’s not here. You gotta do it now. I don’t

Victoria Pendergrass: know the words. I was just babbling. [00:53:00] Human nature? I don’t know all the words.

We would lose all of our listeners if we

Chris Gazdik: had a John moment. Yeah, that’s the word. And I use that in therapy, like so commonly, and I was waiting for you to say it or I was going to say it. And the word is balance. You know, you say ebb and flow and it, and it, and it really is. I think that. People are so afraid of being in these aggressive or passive states that they overcompensate and just swish back and forth.

And, and, and that happens a lot in teenage years. And we like to think that we mature and grow up. But, man, this is such a hard thing to get a balance act, balancing act on. And if you think that you’ve got it, then just think about, again, your marital conversations. And the reason why I say that is because those are the ones that you’re going to tend to have the most emotion in.

Those are the ones that you’re going to have the most skin in the game and those are the ones where your insecurities [00:54:00] tend to Get raised the greatest and the second is probably very much your parenting relationships Especially when you’re living with your parent or your kid, because the same reasons when your emotions are really moving around Neil, it’s hard to have that balance.

And honestly, it’s hard to have that assertiveness, which is why if you think about it. You said, Victoria, at work, you’re here, you’re fine all day long. You’re in confrontations and you have a balance and you’re grounded. It’s because your skin isn’t in the game. I experienced that as well. And that’s why people are saying, Oh, I’m assertive.

I’m I do just fine. I manage people at work all day long. I know how to get my point across. I know how to get understood, and I know how to really deal with conflict. Until you go home.

Victoria Pendergrass: I was gonna say, yeah, but what about in your personal life?

Chris Gazdik: And I have to confront people about that in therapy. My point is, like, all the time.

Because [00:55:00] they, they’re, they’re, they’re thinking about their abilities when they’re in steady states. And there’s less skin in the game with your friends. Or with work. Right. Generally is balanced. What was that, Neo? I may have cut you off. Sorry.

Neil Robinson: I think it’s I think An example of show how control you are is how do you handle yourself with someone who has authority over you?

Like my kids with wrestling with your boss, with your, well, and your spouse or with your parents, like how assertive are you really with those people? I mean, that’s, that’s kind of me like a dynamic thing. Like when I see my kids with their friends or even with us, they push back on us sometimes, but we have.

put them in their place because, you know, Hey, we’re still the parent. But when you say, Hey, go talk to the coaches about it. They’re like, I can’t do that. It’s like, how is it like, that’s, that’s to me, that’s when the rubber beast mode, when you have to like really assert yourself because there’s. There’s a [00:56:00] pushback.

That’s, that’s when it really matters to me. Like when, if there’s something that is a huge stake to you, that matters to you that you carry, because my oldest, his

biggest thing is he doesn’t wanna disappoint the coaches. Right. And it’s, he doesn’t wanna say, this is what I need to do. And I mean, he got pretty

Chris Gazdik: rough to your ago.

I think I wanna kind of push back a little bit, Neil, at just part of that, and, and part of that that I wanna push back is not. You know, when something’s a big deal to you, you know, the wrestling is important to him. He doesn’t want to lose that there’s more skin in the game there. But the part that I want to push back is on authority.

And now if you’re dealing with an authority figure like your boss or whatever, it is going to be a little bit more difficult than dealing with your, your coworker. But that’s just because you care a little bit more about what your boss, cause they control your race says. So to me, it’s like, I really, really care about what my wife says.

Right? Because I live with her. And that affects me, like, daily. So, it’s, it’s really how much [00:57:00] emotion and how much skin you have in the game. And when you have to confront something that the rubber meets the road. That, that make sense? Yep. Yeah. Right. So let’s, let’s go a little bit. Hey, Barbara, by the way, she really enjoyed the topics.

Good to see you. Hi, Grandma. Grandma Barbara. You have to tell her about the name thing later. Did you ever, you know what I’m talking about, Victoria? Yeah, well, I’ll tell you, I’ll remind you. Yeah, refresh my memory. So I want to, I want you to think about just some things that you could practice here.

Right? Before we’re out of time. Nonverbal communication. We had a cool article on our website that might help you to, to think about these things. But, how many of these things that, that you already do, and these are things that you can really begin to do, to honestly hold a little bit of assertiveness.

And they’re, it’s mostly nonverbal communication. But think about Victoria’s. Take a breath, breathe it fully in, get grounded with your feet in the ground, and breathe out.[00:58:00]

Then you begin to move, standing straight. You put your shoulders back, you put your chin up in the air so that your head is straight and level, eyes, contact with the other person’s eyes. A handshake that is firm and solid, being able to keep your body open and direct with somebody so that this body space and the solid walk and all that, that you, you’re conveying, you can begin to practice.

What does a solid, confident, comfortable, assertive person look like? It’s like when you

Victoria Pendergrass: go into a job interview and you get all dressed up and you stand in front of your mirror and you practice. Saying that, you know, you practice whatever your speech or whatever it is in front of the mirror. Yes. So that that way, are you like have a friend or you practice with a spouse, like before you go into [00:59:00] the office and do something or before you give a speech or,

Chris Gazdik: you know, whatever.

Chin up, eyes up, solid voice, solid stance, like, you know, that speaks a lot before you even say a word. Then there’s a lot of the verbal being clear. Slow, precise, with a good pace, you know, not being rude, uh, say no when you mean no, say yes when you mean yes, being good boundaries, don’t contradict or back down, say something and then say something different to water that down, have a calm presence I statements and statements from self perspective having appreciation and having a sense of humility.

But having passion in your statements, having a sense of gratitude, you know, when you ever hear somebody talk about what they’re thinking or what they’re feeling and you’re just like, oh, you know, okay, I get that you’re like Yeah, that feels [01:00:00] solid if you if you if you learn your delivery Beautiful orators.

I love talking or listening to people that are good at doing that These are things that you can really practice To really begin to experience as well, because when you practice them and you do them, you know, you, you, you feel it, you feel it. If you have successful eye contact, if you’re not used to that, and you look up and meet somebody’s eyes, and it goes well, and you’re, and it’s comfortable and safe, like, that is so rewarding.

I have had a lot of people with handshakes, you know, that like, give that handshake out that they really don’t want to hand, you know, and it’s like, But then when I’ve worked with people to firm that up, it’s like, wait a minute, I can do that.

Victoria Pendergrass: trY being a woman. Oh, what do you mean by that? Every time, I hate, every time, and this has happened to me several times.

Which, by the way, I don’t want to try to be a woman. It’s okay. [01:01:00] No, but when, as a woman, probably fellow women. And girls will understand this

but like sometimes when I go to shake the hand of a man He’ll do the nice little like like

Chris Gazdik: a

Neil Robinson: finger shake my wife hates that

Victoria Pendergrass: a little like oh, let me just delicately like Hold your head.

I’m like no like I can give a firm handshake Like I remember one time dated this guy in the air force forever ago and I went to his graduation and he was introducing to me me to his friends and I Shook, shook their hands like a normal freakin person. And they were like, oh my gosh, you have such a strong handshake.

I was like, thank you. Like, I’m not this, like, don’t just like, if you’re watching the YouTube, you can see me, but like, don’t just grab my hand like I’m some delicate little flower. Like, Yeah, it’s patronizing. Yeah, it is patronizing. Like the guy that came by earlier today, like he shook I loved it. He shook my hand like I was a normal person and I was like, thank you.

Chris Gazdik: Yeah, that’s interesting Victoria There are there are definitely some [01:02:00] gender fears and some gender norms that really like people get freaked out about I mean from a guy’s World I could tell you I don’t come from it my perspective myself, but I can imagine People very easily getting the message. Hey, I’m supposed to protect a woman I’m supposed to, to, to be the strong figure, and I don’t want to do harm, and so I want to show respect, much like Queen Elizabeth.

Like, you’re supposed to do that to a queen. Right. You know, a, a, a man, a knight, is supposed to be very delicate and whatnot to a queen. But I’m not a queen. Right.

Victoria Pendergrass: I have the name of one, but I’m not, not Hamlet. Queen

Chris Gazdik: Vicki. Oh.

Victoria Pendergrass: Oh. Oh. I’m going to start calling you Christopher.

Neil Robinson: Oh, no, no. He actually has another you have to find it on the show.

We did talk about on the show. You have to find it. I don’t remember. You have to, you have to find it, but yes, that’s what I was going to say. You need to watch out because we know the name you don’t like. [01:03:00] It’s not too long ago. But I think the key that you keep pointing out to this through all these things, we’re talking about skills and everything.

It’s a buildup, it’s a practice. So if you really have a struggle with these things, don’t let it get you down because it’s going to, sometimes it takes a while. And so that’s something that’s, I want to emphasize that, like, these are something that, like when my kid was in karate, it, you could watch this cause it would take two, three months before they finally looked the sensei in the eye and did the hand, like.

It takes time. And so if you know, and it takes like, that’s why when you say, when you know, you’re going to interview, go interview for jobs you don’t want, or you don’t think you’re going to get just to get the nerves out of the way. It’s very, it’s very important to

Chris Gazdik: have an interview in a

Neil Robinson: while. Yeah, so I just want to point out that you mentioned that a few times I just really want to emphasize like don’t feel bad if you’re gonna struggle at the beginning with assertiveness Especially if you’re not used to it, you know, and so really work on it.

Very true

Victoria Pendergrass: Also if you’re in [01:04:00] college, my college offered this I’m assuming most colleges with student activities and stuff offer this but like my college offered mock interviews And like

Chris Gazdik: I thought you were gonna public speaking Class. I thought you were going to a public speaking class. But I mean, there’s

Victoria Pendergrass: like, there are opportunities like in college and, and continuing education to practice, practice assertiveness, like do the mock interviews, do the public speaking classes, do the things that kind of like.

Push you to learn how to be assertive and then you can like take it in and go. Yeah

Chris Gazdik: I love that. Absolutely. Listen, we are riding with you through the holidays of 2023 pretty soon The New Year bells are going to be ringing

and we have a renewal of the year and renewal of the spirit a lot of Times people get into so we recognize the holidays are tough We recognize that this topic can be tough with assertiveness.

So we endeavor to figure this out together We endeavor to travel this with you [01:05:00] So we trust that you’re doing well, and we appreciate you being with us. So take care, stay well, and we’ll see you next week. Bye, y’all.

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