Originally the show was going to just be about Assertiveness, but as the panel was discussing a current event, they decided to shift. The current event that was talked about was the Santa Claus Tradition. They look at when you should discuss this with your children and how to do it. Then they finish the episode by covering the topic of assertiveness and what are some of the benefits of it.
Tune in to see Santa and Assertiveness Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- Do you know what this really is?
- Why do people get passive?
- Why do people get aggressive
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Episode #254 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Through a Therapist’s Eyes on December the 7th. Correct.
This is Through a Therapist’s Eyes, where you get insights directly from a panel of therapists in your home or car, but it is not to delivery of therapy services in any way. We’re going to be talking about assertiveness today. So you listening, I want you to To understand, to implement, to gather some, some information about something that is, I think, point and primary to a positive and well mental health state.
It is a, it is a, it is a word that people have heard before. I’m sure you’ve heard of it. You’ve probably used it, but honestly. I very rarely get the answer to the question using this word when I pose the question here in a little bit. [00:01:00] Spoiler alert, you already know the question though, so I’m excited about this one.
Thanks for joining us. I’m excited for it for them. What’s that? Is it? Is it?
John-Nelson Pope: Is it what? You said your assertiveness. Are you? Are you?
Chris Gazdik: I think
John-Nelson Pope: so. Okay. I’m joking. .
Chris Gazdik: I’m teasing. I think so. Lemme see. We’ve got a, a, a, an ask I think I’m gonna start pushing Neil a little early. We got, we got an ask where we really wanna get the YouTube subscriber number.
We need to get that up in 2024 to a thousand. We want to push for a thousand subscribers to YouTube and Victoria has her lips pursed and anxious to speak. We’re not at a thousand. We are not at a thousand. So this is
John-Nelson Pope: aspirational.
Chris Gazdik: This is absolutely aspirational and it’s a request. If you like the show.
I believe we can do it. If you like the show, if you like the content, that is a way that you can really help us out. Click the like and subscribe. Give us some feedback on YouTube [00:02:00] Apple, iTunes, john gets very upset about four
stars five stars. You have to have five stars to please John Contact it through atherapysize.
com to interact with us. Look, this is the human emotional experience which we endeavor to figure out together. Who’s our sponsor, Ms. Victoria? First
Neil Robinson: Horizon
Victoria Pendergrass: Bank.
Chris Gazdik: Very good. What about our sponsor, John?
John-Nelson Pope: Well, they’re all over the country, and they do loans, and they do banking, and checking, and they’re a downtown home style bank.
Chris Gazdik: Love them at first horizons. Check them out. They’re really into financial literacy. They really are there to help you serve you. Their attitude is one that I’ve really enjoyed. I think customer
John-Nelson Pope: service is
Chris Gazdik: priority. Good deal. First horizon. Thank you. We love you having on board and we appreciate your connection with through a therapist’s eyes.
com. So do you really know what assertiveness [00:03:00] is and why do people get passive? And why do people get aggressive? You know, So, guys, I have asked, and I’m going to do our current event before we really get going, but I have asked this question in therapy many, many times over, because I find that people get either passive or aggressive, not passive aggressive, passive or aggressive.
Or aggressive. And there’s lots of different forms of being passive and having passivity. And there are lots of different forms of being aggressive. For instance, passive aggressive. But aggressive tendencies are not helpful. Passive tendencies are not helpful. And
Neil Robinson: I don’t think I
Chris Gazdik: have ever gotten the answer to the question, where we want to be is right in the middle, which is described by what word?
Assertive. Victoria whispers, assertive. I don’t even know if they heard you. That’ll be, that’ll be fascinating to see if they actually heard Victoria.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. Nobody, nobody knows the middle. I wasn’t [00:04:00] assertive when I said that.
Chris Gazdik: No. Non verbally passive.
Neil Robinson: But I mean. I’m dumbfounded, John, how
Chris Gazdik: people really don’t know the healthy spot in the middle of those two dichotomies on this scale.
People don’t know. So it’s either
John-Nelson Pope: Dow Zero, which is ultimately passive, or Dow, or 1, 000. Blow up. Blow up.
Chris Gazdik: Kaboom. People don’t know the mid. The mid, yeah. And that’s where we want to be is in that mid zone.
John-Nelson Pope: And you know, there’s a little wobble room in there, you know, because sometimes you might be a little less assertive, but you can also, or even given the situation, maybe a little bit more aggressive, but it’s not aggressive in the bad sense, it’s assertive, it’s dial
Chris Gazdik: it up.
I had to get my kids attention multiple times throughout the parenting level with them, right?
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah, your voice changes.
Chris Gazdik: A lot. Yeah. All right, let’s do a fun current event though. [00:05:00] Listen, whether you’re listening to this show in the holiday season or later on in the year, I really want you to hear this alert.
This is not content for children. I would say anybody under the age of at least 10 and under. You might even think about, you know, 11, 12 years old, though. That’s a little older and the older kids can handle it. I really do not want kids to hear this current event. Okay. So if it’s somewhere through the year or
somewhere through the holidays pop the Pop the volume off, listen to it later, because it really is good content for you adults, particularly parents.
This is parent material for sure. Okay. So I think I’ve qualified it enough. I’ll say it again because I really want parents to know, turn this off, no little ears. And we’ll
Neil Robinson: come back. Skip ahead about
Chris Gazdik: five minutes. Yep, at least. Okay. Excuse me. That all being said, I [00:06:00] hope people paid attention because we’re going to talk about Santa Claus.
Oh. I thought it was some salacious stuff. No.
Neil Robinson: John and I are giving each other looks like what the heck is he
Chris Gazdik: about to bring up? I didn’t notice I was looking at the camera.
Neil Robinson: Well, because this came
Chris Gazdik: up in therapy. Okay. And I thought, you know what? This is a really important current event. It
John-Nelson Pope: came up today in therapy.
For you? For me, yeah. Did it? Really?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. How did it come up for you? Well,
John-Nelson Pope: It was just that one of my clients said my new husband she he, the woman has a, a child that’s in elementary school and she said, my husband said there was no Santa Claus to my daughter. I am so angry with him and she was so disappointed.
Neil Robinson: See, it’s a big deal, John. Yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: we’re currently having that discussion at my own [00:07:00] household about, about whether or not we are going, not like, but about whether or not we’re going to teach our kid that, like, tell our kid the same as Royler and Ryan.
Neil Robinson: Oh,
Chris Gazdik: have some fun. I shouldn’t boop you that I, please don’t send me hate mail.
I
Neil Robinson: understand,
Chris Gazdik: I understand people carry the mentality, Victoria, and I don’t want to poo poo that, but I do fall in the line of like, you know, it’s fun for kids, it’s a holiday magical thing, and I know people are kind of like, carry the ideology, probably particularly for first children, but there’s also Yeah.
Others just say, no, we aren’t going to do that. It doesn’t support the right values. That sort
Victoria Pendergrass: of thing. So then what current, like, what, where exactly are you going with this Santa thing? Okay,
Chris Gazdik: the current event is just to your point, John, right? No. How do you break it to, how do you deal with the children and when?
And how
Neil Robinson: I think, I think we should go around and [00:08:00] tell our stories about how we found out that, that there is no, well, I don’t think we have
Chris Gazdik: time for that. Honestly. Maybe, maybe we’ll do that on a, on a Christmas extravaganza. So I guess I was 15,
John-Nelson Pope: but
Chris Gazdik: I’m just, gosh. But what I do want to tell the story is how I told my son.
Now, listen, I screw a lot of things up, but I think this is something that I did very, very well. So first of all, you know that this can be a traumatic reality. It more than one
Neil Robinson: out
Chris Gazdik: the truth. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. More than once. I’ve really, really had people struggle with this. I’m talking about resentments with their parents.
I’m talking about. You know, traumatic response. People have said this was traumatic for them, right? Yeah, it’s a little over the top, but you know,
John-Nelson Pope: if there’s a history of trauma, then that just,
Chris Gazdik: it just gets embedded right in there with them. So I have a lot of clear thoughts about this, but what do you guys say about when and how to share this with the kids?[00:09:00]
Victoria Pendergrass: I’m not really sure of when I won’t tell my full story, but I found out at school. And then I cornered my mom and asked her, like, Hey, you know, like, this is what someone said at school, like, Oh my gosh, is this real? And I found out about all of them at the same time. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: usually that’s
Neil Robinson: what
Victoria Pendergrass: happens. And so I don’t know, because I don’t know.
I think I might have more of a liberal thing to it where I’m not like, I’m not sure whether or not I want to keep like.
Chris Gazdik: Millennial. Yeah. The millennial, John.
Victoria Pendergrass: So I’m not quite sure because I personally haven’t had to do that
Neil Robinson: yet,
Chris Gazdik: so I’m not. Here’s the thing, and your child is only one years old. Yeah, one and a half.
So, so, so actually I’m curious, John, what you say, let’s dialogue for just a couple minutes about it, and then Victoria, I’d be curious where your brain goes listening. Okay. Right? So do you have thoughts, John? Have you dealt with this in therapy? How and when do we do this?
John-Nelson Pope: Well, [00:10:00] in therapy, it was mostly parents, or one person says something and they hadn’t consulted about it, and and it’s a parenting issue as well in terms of a relationship.
So
Chris Gazdik: one thing I hear for sure, be coordinated. Yeah, be
John-Nelson Pope: coordinated and be able to sit down. I want to suggest there is a there is a question. Is there a Santa Claus by Francis Church? And this was back in the end 1897 and it was in the sun and you can Google this and it’s the best answer in the world.
And it tells how to, it’s where he, he talks, Virginia is eight years old and people were telling her there’s no Santa Claus and there’s no Santa Claus and she writes the newspaper eight years old. And she does that. Of course, people were very literate back in those days, but the point was, is that he talked about [00:11:00] the spirit of Christmas, the spirit of Santa Claus.
Right. And yes, there is a Santa. And so that, it
Chris Gazdik: helps. John looks at Victoria. It helps. Listening to the audio version. Yeah. Here’s the thing I’d like to add. Absolutely. Are you going to read it or are you? It’s very
Victoria Pendergrass: lengthy. Yeah, it’s
Neil Robinson: lengthy. It’s very
John-Nelson Pope: lengthy. But it’s in the sun and it just, it’s Virginia O’Hannan O’Hannan and but it’s O’Hanlon rather.
And it’s Francis Church. Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.
Chris Gazdik: I love that. And that’s part of what I used with my son. So I dealt with this. I, I, well, I thought about this and I executed it with particularly my older son, my younger son. I don’t even really remember. Honestly, it was probably the younger guy.
I learned from the older guy. I’m not sure how that worked. I don’t remember. And that’s the way it worked with our
John-Nelson Pope: kids. And so they were actually The oldest believed in Santa Claus longest, right in the middle, but
Chris Gazdik: [00:12:00] there’s a, but that’s an important factor though. So first of all, the, when in my mind, and I know John, I’ve been able to pre think this.
So in my mind, you, you really listened to the questions of your child. That’s a guidepost on when to do this. Because this person in therapy this week’s oldest child was age six, and they were getting the questions and whatnot. So we determined that this is probably the last year that this is going to be the Santa Claus thing.
So, just like in a divorced family, My guide post to help parents understand how much and what to share Really relates to the questions that you’re getting because that demonstrates the developmental level that the kid is and you’re listening and you’re listening So the first thing is the kid has to understand they can ask any question possible That’s a crucial reality.
And then when they begin to ask questions that are very formative about Santa Claus, that’s your cue Hey, they’re picking up on this. That’s the win I think that’s a simple answer [00:13:00] to the wind. I
Neil Robinson: was gonna
Victoria Pendergrass: say I was gonna say 13 Yeah, well, that’s pretty old I was gonna say if they I was more gonna say like if they make it to 13 and they still They haven’t figured it out then then say it but you’re well,
Neil Robinson: here’s the thing people
Chris Gazdik: carry this for their own Benefit as a parent.
Okay. This is not about you mom. This is not about you dad. I’m, sorry It’s about the kid and what’s best for the kid and how to handle this and it is important So when you begin getting formative questions, whatever developmental level they’re on it’s not the age Then that tells you the the way and here’s a little bit about the how um, I sat aaron down and I and I began To talk to him about the questions he was asking us.
I just, you know, paraphrased, but like, look, Aaron, you know, you were asking about this and, you know, Santa Claus and how this works. And he’s like, you know, there really is a Santa Claus in the sense of what Saint Nicholas
[00:14:00] was and the traditions of what was done with gift giving and that type of thing. So there’s a spirit here.
There’s a, there’s a, There’s a sense of giving, there’s a sense of joy in sharing this joy. And we talked about those types of things. And then I explained to them that it’s different though, than the magical Santa Claus that you experienced with the chimney and the twinkle, twinkle and all of that sort of stuff.
So the truth is buddy, you know, look, you’re in a big group now. And so. You’re kind of getting older and I want to welcome you to be in kind of a bigger kid. And so it’s framed positively. It’s framed as you’re in the group. You’re now, you now have knowledge that I’m saying, no, that’s not true. But, but what is true is the spirit.
John-Nelson Pope: But let me interject something in this. And that is, is that the values is that you redirect and say, why do you receive gifts? And then talk about that and said, [00:15:00] what. And then if you have a religious background, you talk about the idea that giving a hundred, yeah, and that, that it’s in a way it’s it to show that that spirit of Christmas
Chris Gazdik: and here’s the is to is to give and to share joy and share self and, and here’s the privilege of this information because I saw his His wheels just turning and, and, you know, Easter Bunny’s a part of this and he asks questions now as we’re all of them.
So is that, you know, and there’s a funny thing about that, Victoria, but. We’re going long here. Probably way long.
John-Nelson Pope: Well, maybe this is what we needed to talk
Chris Gazdik: about. You know what? Maybe so. Maybe, maybe so. I don’t know how far we want to go but so maybe I don’t need to rush it. We should change the title.
No, we can assert ourselves
Victoria Pendergrass: later. My question is, I can see, okay, phrasing it like that, but then still, [00:16:00] Because I think about myself because I’m slightly selfish and I think like I would still be mad as a kid Yeah, like I think I would still hold a resentment Towards my parents of like you lied to me for like I can
John-Nelson Pope: assure you my kids never said that yeah
Chris Gazdik: They didn’t particularly if you’re in an age where You know, they’re beginning to form these formative questions.
If you go on to like, you know, 12 years old, 10’s a little older. That’s why I qualified this for like 10 and under. You start carrying that longer. That becomes about the parent. And again, I’m going to be hard on this. I’m sorry, mom and dad out there. You need to know that this is not about you. It’s about what’s best for your kid.
You are going to lose the joy of being Santa Claus in the magical way. And you have to deal with that pain. And that is a loss, but that’s something you have to deal with. I’m sorry.
Neil Robinson: No. And I’m next. I think [00:17:00] John’s next. Okay, go John. No, I’m next.
Victoria Pendergrass: Go ahead. But I think it’s important ’cause I think about when it happened for me.
For me personally, it didn’t change, I can’t remember what I was, I was probably like 10, 11, something like that. It’s up there a little bit. And, it didn’t, like I still had joy, but I don’t, about the Christmas season. But, I don’t know if that was because I had a younger brother, and I was trying to like still keep up the, like belief for him.
Here’s the second part of my talk with Aaron. And so, Exactly. Like, therefore, it kind of, Like, I didn’t have to, I still was able to have like, Christmas spirit
Neil Robinson: and
Chris Gazdik: joy. Listen, my kids at age 22 and 8, 19, still have this magical joy and excitement about Christmas, and they do. I do, for that matter, as Santa Claus.
Look, the privilege of being in the group of being a bigger kid is, needs to be You know, highlighted when you have these, this talk and this [00:18:00] interaction is, and it’s really an interaction, not a talk because the kids interacting with you, I hope is this to be careful that other kids don’t know this. So really be respectful about the magical experience that they’re having.
And instead of, you know, the tricks now, you know, but they don’t. So, so you really need to be kind about that. And
Neil Robinson: for Aaron, most importantly, we, we, we
Chris Gazdik: still want to have this magic. Show for your younger brother. Mm-Hmm. . And he joined into that, you know, we didn’t do Elf on the shelf, but if you do the elf thing, ugh.
You know. Well that’s where,
Neil Robinson: that’s where ,
John-Nelson Pope: that’s where all the stuff, the bad stuff began with my clients. With
Chris Gazdik: the Elf. Yeah. They didn’t on the, we’re definitely not doing Elf on the shelf at our house. You
John-Nelson Pope: don’t? Yeah. Because and the person said yeah. And then, and the child said the elf lost its magic.
Ah. Here’s a, here’s a point is developmentally, [00:19:00] um, the conquer, the, the magical thinking occurs And Eric’s, I mean, Freud and with Piaget is at the age of five, six, seven years old. And then as they began to develop in question, cognition, cognition, yeah. And so they start to go more into a concrete thinking mode, children do, and that’s not, that’s not developmental, develop developmental.
And so everybody has different times for that. And so I think it’s important to be kind because. Children are at different stages, even if they’re chronologically the same age.
Chris Gazdik: Absolutely, and you know, John, it’s a good point that you make with the developmental Piaget modeling. Well, it’s not a model.
It’s, it’s, it’s basically scientific, biological fact. In the way that psychology develops, you know, to answer your question, Victoria, or concern rather, you know, you’re not doing harm or [00:20:00] damage to the two, three, four, five year old kid, you know, to believe something that isn’t true. You’re, you know, they’re really not on the level of you’re lying to me.
I think when they begin to get six, seven, eight, and they’re asking formative questions and cognition is beginning to develop. Concrete thinking is beginning to develop. Problem solving is beginning to develop. And then you carry it on
for your own pleasure and wellbeing. The kid will begin to sense that like, wait a minute, this is BS and you’re not answering my questions.
The answers to my questions is, is not adding up. Now you’re
Neil Robinson: running into a problem.
Chris Gazdik: Right. You’re getting into. So
John-Nelson Pope: in other words, you’re, you’re kind of approaching it from the parents point of, I mean, the sense that the parents become the encumbrance and can actually sow the seeds for some resentment for the kids.
I think so. Carry it on too
Chris Gazdik: long. Yeah, [00:21:00] I think so. And You know, there’s there there can be great pain in that. I mean, that’s where people really experience trauma and turmoil
John-Nelson Pope: experience trauma.
Chris Gazdik: I Was joking no, I really don’t honestly, I don’t remember when I found out which tells me it wasn’t as big Yeah, I
John-Nelson Pope: know when I stopped and I was able, and I think it was because of my parents, was to transition it.
I think you could have taken the words out of my parents you took the words out of my parents. In my description. In your description. That’s how they dealt with us about it. We, we became a little skeptical and we would start looking for the presence. Oh yeah. So we kind of knew, you know.
Victoria Pendergrass: See, that makes me think, because I was in fifth grade.
When I cornered my mom in the car, like, it makes me think if I hadn’t had brought it up, like, how much longer would she, you know, like, [00:22:00] would they have, and this might be a question I ask my mom now when I see her, but like, how long, much longer would they, because I don’t necessarily remember asking questions about it, like, because for us, okay, so I know everyone does it different for us, like Santa, Presents were never wrapped.
They were like out in the open. Yeah. And then presents from my mom and dad and like from other people, they were always wrapped and I’m 30 years old and we still get presents from Santa. Like we still have our like gifts that come like with our stocking that comes, I do
John-Nelson Pope: that with my middle aged children.
Victoria Pendergrass: And so I think, I
Neil Robinson: don’t
Chris Gazdik: know. All right, here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to continue this because it’s a good conversation and we’re going to go half of the show on, you know, traditions and rich history of, of, of Christmas. And then we’ll do the second half on assertiveness and we’ll do the same thing next week.
We’ll do a little bit more religious theme family traditions and this and that. And then the rest of assertiveness. And then the rest of the assertiveness.
John-Nelson Pope: You don’t want to get coal in your
Chris Gazdik: stocking. [00:23:00] No. That’s just mean. My brother did Cole, but I mean, cause these
Neil Robinson: are, I
Chris Gazdik: think, important things. They’re important enough.
And our conversation obviously hasn’t ended and wonder how many people have turned the show back on and like, Oh God, they’re still
Neil Robinson: talking.
Chris Gazdik: Yes,
John-Nelson Pope: Virginia. There is a Santa Claus. You can
Chris Gazdik: look it up,
Neil Robinson: right? But there’s a lot of fear in, in, in Victoria. I think your experience of like,
Chris Gazdik: I’m not sure that I want to do this.
Neil Robinson: And I, I’ve had people with that experience as
Chris Gazdik: well, where it’s like, I want them to know who to say thank you to. I
Neil Robinson: want them to, to not cheapen
Chris Gazdik: the the giving, you know, or various concerns about religion. Sometimes it’s anti religion. I think,
Neil Robinson: and
Victoria Pendergrass: I don’t know, because maybe I also come from the perspective of I’ve worked in a school.
And one thing that happens at school is after Christmas break, when everybody comes back, Yeah, my goodness. The famous question that every teacher [00:24:00] asks, What did Santa bring you? Yeah. What did you get for Christmas? What did Santa bring you? What grade is that? Just, I was in an elementary school. Oh, okay.
And so, it, it’s, it’s sometimes hard for me to think when you have one kid, you have Bobby, who gets An iPad, from Santa. Right, right, but then you have Sally over here who just gets like a toothbrush and shampoo and socks from Santa So sometimes I have a hard time like and I guess that that might be what when like kids start asking questions Like oh, like why did Santa bring Bobby an iPad when I asked for an iPad, but like Santa only brought me Toothbrush.
A toothbrush, toothpaste, and some shampoo and socks. Like, it’s a sometimes, and I don’t know maybe if I’m thinking too into it, but sometimes, like, how do you justify that to a kid?
Neil Robinson: I don’t
Chris Gazdik: think you’re thinking too much into it. I think when, when you get to that level of cognition, you’re [00:25:00] way past the mark.
Like, you’re way past the need to have had that probably two years prior. I would agree. You know, that’s a parent carrying the son for the parent’s pleasure problem. Let me say that again. I feel like that’s a parents carrying this on for their pleasure as the problem.
John-Nelson Pope: And so it’s, it’s cons, it’s conspicuous consumption being able to, in a way, they, they project some of their own feelings of I wanna say it inadequacy by getting big gifts for the kids from Santa.
From Santa and yeah. And so they get some sort of a, of, of a pleasure from it, but the problem is it’s not teaching the, the kiddos values and what is the true meaning of, of the holiday.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Because Victoria, if you think about
Neil Robinson: it, I mean, you know, when you’re in a second grade, you know, kids don’t give a shit about us.
Chris Gazdik: I should rip about, you know, I’m so [00:26:00] sorry. It is an adult program, but look,
Neil Robinson: kids don’t care in the second grade where they got a toothbrush or a fish or a frog or a TV. They’re not, the cognition isn’t kicked in yet. I mean, when I was in the second grade, man, the best thing ever was Lando Calrissian’s
Chris Gazdik: ship from Star Wars.
A box,
John-Nelson Pope: an empty
Chris Gazdik: box for me. Absolutely right. I should have, I could have done better with that. Although Linda Cruz,
John-Nelson Pope: no, that was good because,
Chris Gazdik: but
Neil Robinson: it really was, I mean, you know, the, the,
Chris Gazdik: the record that player that was a 10 record player was like magical for a little kiddo. So
John-Nelson Pope: we got a 10 a 10. Phonograph and it was wonderful and it had a little sound box
Chris Gazdik: and it did mine was better than yours.
It was nicer to me, John. Mine wasn’t even
Victoria Pendergrass: melodic. My thinking in that way is like too advanced. Like there’s no, you’re saying that there’s no first, second, third [00:27:00] grader kid that’s thinking like, Oh, why did. They get something better than what I
Chris Gazdik: got much. I really don’t think so. I didn’t see that. That’s my adult.
That’s the adult junior highs. When
John-Nelson Pope: I started being jealous.
Chris Gazdik: Well, I think you can get jealousy in the fifth grade and fourth. Maybe, I mean, you know, they’re like, what, you know, they’re pushing 10 years old, 10 years old. You’re prepubescent, you know? So, yeah. I just think Victoria, the biggest problem is not what you got to remember.
We
John-Nelson Pope: developed slower back in the
Chris Gazdik: dark ages. Stop it, John. I, you know, Victoria, I think it’s really that people struggle with holding this out too long rather than, you know, the, the adult concerns are doing damage to little. kiddos. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a, Aaron and I had a wonderful experience having this conversation.
It really was, as a matter of fact, he was a little bit sad with the Easter bunny as he was like pulling it all together. But the funny part of [00:28:00] that, and maybe we’ll end up with this funny part. He did not. Like the tooth fairy.
Victoria Pendergrass: Oh, him personally. He just wasn’t a fan. He
Neil Robinson: was freaked
Chris Gazdik: out by the tooth fairy, man.
Yeah. Pain. This little thing flying right up in the air. We had to put the dollar out with the tooth outside his door. Inflation. He was not to be in his pillow. He was. Like, panicked about that.
Neil Robinson: He was pleasurable
Victoria Pendergrass: happy about that. And I think another thing to keep in mind is to communicate kind of what I mean, you’ve already mentioned it, but if you choose not to teach your kid about Santa or when you choose to reveal that, you know, whatever, that you communicate that, like, there are other people that still believe.
Yeah, and so like let’s respect them. Yeah, like let’s not go to school
Neil Robinson: Yeah, don’t be the like I really
Victoria Pendergrass: don’t want to be the parent that gets the call that says yeah Your kid just shouted that Santa’s not real in
Neil Robinson: front of the [00:29:00] whole class. really gonna happen in the second grade? What, what six year old, seven year old is
Chris Gazdik: going to run around second grade when I have this special knowledge and I’m
Neil Robinson: going to break it up for you and feel good about myself?
Yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: but kids are like brutally honest. Young
Neil Robinson: Sheldon.
Chris Gazdik: And they have no filter. Young
Neil Robinson: Sheldon.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. They have no filter. I mean, I come from working in a school. Yeah. Like kids will True. Blurt out just about anything. You know? That’s true. That’s how you find out that People are having affairs and stuff because kids blurt out
Neil Robinson: what they see.
But you know, honestly, when that’s
Chris Gazdik: happening, I would imagine, you know, the kindergartner and stuff, they’re not going to believe Johnny over there spouting off some nonsense. My mommy said that Santa Claus comes down the chimney and we love that and I’m excited and I’m right and he’s wrong. Listen, I fought blood and tears that the Harlem Globetrotters were a real basketball team in like the fourth grade.
Oh, I remember.
John-Nelson Pope: Hehehehe I’m a swe We We must have had the same rumor going around. Oh, probably. It was the same thing. We, [00:30:00] but the other is that there’s some good movies that handle this delicately and I think wonderfully. The Miracle on 37th Street. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Absolutely.
John-Nelson Pope: Absolutely. Because it leaves it, it leaves it open.
It
Chris Gazdik: really is. Boy, I did not expect all of this from a Simple Current event, but
Neil Robinson: this is we need to taxi in here, but this is I know about it, but I’ve never actually seen it. It’s a very good
Chris Gazdik: conversation, guys. I, I, I was, I’m surprised that we went A lot with this but let’s get to assertiveness
Victoria Pendergrass: and say, you bring up Christmas.
I could talk your head
Neil Robinson: off.
Chris Gazdik: Well, she is a Christmas girl. You’re going to assert yourself to be
Neil Robinson: assertive, but, but I appreciate
Chris Gazdik: that. Thank you for listening. The kids can listen now, I guess, you know, and, and yeah, but boy, there’s a lot there though.
Neil Robinson: I mean, there’s a lot of, a lot of feelings come
Chris Gazdik: out this
Neil Robinson: time of year, right?
We don’t have to talk about
Victoria Pendergrass: it today because I will go off about it, but like then you bring in. We might can talk about it next week, but like bring in like extra things [00:31:00] like Elf on a Shelf and what kind of impact that is having on
Neil Robinson: kids. What is the problem with Elf on the Freaking Shelf? Next week.
We’re not going to talk about it. We’re not going to talk about it. What is the problem? That’s You’ll have to tune in next week to hear Victoria complaining about Elf on a Shelf. It is a cute fun I am so
Chris Gazdik: jealous I never
Neil Robinson: got that as a child. I’m
Victoria Pendergrass: glad I never did. As a parent now, who would have to be the one to set up the elf on the shelf, I’m thankful.
That my parents, that was all around
Neil Robinson: when I was a kid. Put cameras in the eyes We’re gonna move on to assertiveness. Understanding
Chris Gazdik: assertiveness. So, a quick definition came up as confident and forceful behavior. Without reading the show notes, what do you guys think of that definition of assertiveness?
Confident and forceful behavior.
John-Nelson Pope: A a salesman could be confident and forceful [00:32:00] and sell you the wrong thing, so I don’t like that. That’s, to me, could be very aggressive. That’s
Victoria Pendergrass: very non-descriptive. Yeah, I
Neil Robinson: think it’s a horrible evidence. I, I couldn’t believe I would, I was reading, I was like, did you get this from
Chris Gazdik: Chad?
Bt it’s a, not,
John-Nelson Pope: not that there’s anything wrong with, with salesmen and saleswomen. Yeah. John’s getting, that’s getting
Chris Gazdik: a way to kick your ass. Hey, hey, John’s gonna get the hate mail. Now I get the first half. No, I just thought I couldn’t believe that. I like, I love the word assertiveness. And we work with this a lot in therapy.
I don’t know if y’all do, but I do like a lot. And I’m like, I do not want people
Neil Robinson: to
Chris Gazdik: think that they need to be forceful when being assertive. Like that, that’s not assertive. That’s
Neil Robinson: aggressive.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, I know you talk about assertiveness a lot. I do. Well, because I’ve seen multiple times, I’ve heard you open up your office door as you’re wrapping up like sentences and not, I feel like five times out of 10, the word assertive comes out of your mouth, like let’s work on that assertiveness or
Neil Robinson: [00:33:00] something.
So the
Chris Gazdik: Cambridge definition, I came up much better. The quality of being confident and not frightened. To say what you want or believe, I feel like that is way more of an appropriate. Well, I like the
John-Nelson Pope: not frightened because it’s also saying a kind of an internal change that might be occurring in the person.
Be able to say what he or she wants to say or needs to say. Yeah. So there’s a volitional aspect and the person is not afr
Chris Gazdik: So I like that. Yeah, I, I, I feel like, you know, if, if you think about being aggressive, we know that anger is rooted in fear, right? Can we also say that being passive is also very much rooted in fear?
For sure. So when you’re trying to engage somebody, you can’t engage somebody very [00:34:00] effectively when you’re operating out of. Fear. So we want to be fearless as much as possible, which we can, we say
Neil Robinson: is assertiveness. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: We’re, around what topics do you feel like you, assertiveness comes up? Cause like for me, okay, for me, All over
Chris Gazdik: the place to answer your question.
Victoria Pendergrass: The one thing I think of is like things that go on in the bedroom. Yeah. Marriage for sure. That like, when I was thinking more sex specifically, but like, that’s where my mind goes. This is what I want. Yeah. Like being assertive and
Chris Gazdik: yeah. This is what I want. What I really, really want. Gonna be my lover.
Neil Robinson: That’s classic. No, I think it’s pretty much like generally Victoria, I think that you have to be an assertive parent. I think you have to be an assertive
Chris Gazdik: employee. I think you have to be an assertive student. I think you have to [00:35:00] be an assertive professor. I think you have to be an assertive wife and an assertive husband and we can go on.
Yeah. Well,
John-Nelson Pope: there’s, there was something when I, when I,
Chris Gazdik: because let me correct. You strive to be all of those things. Right?
John-Nelson Pope: Right. When I was in and I’m go, I’m going back to middle school again or Mm-Hmm. in junior high. It’s when I started talking to girls. I mean, oh yeah. I was, I I have some social anxiety.
Oh yeah. I’m always a little anxious.
Chris Gazdik: I stupid passive with
John-Nelson Pope: that. Yeah. Yeah. And part of it was learning over a period of four or five years that I could assert myself and, Mm-Hmm. be a, a gentleman. And ask being kind, being kind, empathetic, absolutely. And, but actually be the real
Chris Gazdik: deal. No, it’s funny. You’re pulling a lot of these characteristics that we’ll talk about next week.
No, it’s perfect because that’s, that those are the words that we describe what assertive people do. So that’s a little [00:36:00] foreshadowing for part of the end that it’s not being forceful. Where did that come from as a part of assertiveness is so confusing to me. And so displeasing because It’s overbearing.
Right. Yeah. That’s not being assertive. I was shocked at that. I really was. And if that’s what people
Neil Robinson: are thinking And where did you find that definition?
Chris Gazdik: Victoria, I’m not sure. You don’t remember? Okay. Honestly, just a Google thing. That, and I didn’t go far. I mean,
John-Nelson Pope: that was really the, the, the most sucky definition.
Was the first word I saw. Huh. That’s what bothers me is that that comes up in a, in a, in a Google search. Right. So. Yeah. And it, you come up with absolutely the worst definition.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay, but do you believe with the confident part, not the forceful part? But the confident part. Mostly
Neil Robinson: the, the force. Yeah. It’s
Victoria Pendergrass: mostly the forceful part that is kind of rubbing you the wrong
Chris Gazdik: way.
Absolutely rubbing me the wrong way. Because confident is good. Yeah. Comfort is good.
Neil Robinson: But you know, you can’t be comfortable,
Chris Gazdik: [00:37:00] kind, compassionate, which is all marks of assertiveness if you’re in fear. Huh. Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: But it’s also a process. You’re becoming confident. You’re becoming assertive. Isn’t it? I mean, it’s a process.
Victoria Pendergrass: Do you think being assertive builds confidence?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Yeah. I would. Yeah. I think as you become confident, you can be assertive. And then if you’re assertive, you know, I think there’s a symbiotic, symbiotic thing when I,
John-Nelson Pope: when I told a young man about marching and I was, I was the other day and at bootcamp and everybody is given a chance at doing leadership and some people were kind of really nervous about it.
such as myself and I nearly marched them into the, into the bay, the, the fellow students or fellow inductees. And but part of that was learn, you learn that assertiveness [00:38:00] because everybody And so, you, you grow into it. Yeah. And, and in other words, I didn’t march them into the bay. I got them where they needed to be.
Yeah. After the gunnery sergeant yelled at me. Oh,
Chris Gazdik: boy. Oh, you’re, you’re killing me, John. Being, being hung, I guess I’ll, I’ll be genuine to, to you. We just, I’m super proud Papa over here. I’m sitting there listening to you and you know, I’m thinking about my son. Anchors away. I’m just, I’m thinking about my son.
He went into bootcamp Navy like four days ago, so. Yeah, he showed
Neil Robinson: me the video
Victoria Pendergrass: yesterday. We ran into each other at
Neil Robinson: the gym. Yeah, yeah. So,
Victoria Pendergrass: cause he lost his workout partner.
Chris Gazdik: No, I’m going to be upset. Okay. I’m sorry. It goes across the nation and
Neil Robinson: the world.
Chris Gazdik: If this is the audio version, I’m not crying. I’m not, it’s raw. But you learn
John-Nelson Pope: to be assertive. So it’s not [00:39:00] just, it’s not just something that you start with.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, well, I don’t know, John, be honest with you. That’s an interesting thought because false being aggressive. Do you start with being passive or do you start with being in the healthiest space in the center assertiveness?
And I might actually argue babies are. Assertive,
John-Nelson Pope: but somewhere, but
Chris Gazdik: when
John-Nelson Pope: they become toddlers, yours is mine. Mine, they become aggressive. They become aggressive. Yeah. Okay. So it’s, I think it’s part of a
Chris Gazdik: development, collected babies though. Don’t do that. They
John-Nelson Pope: become.
Chris Gazdik: DSS workers were very, very concerned when they walk into a home and the baby doesn’t even look at them or respond or
John-Nelson Pope: care.
Okay. This is a good thing. And there’s a failure to thrive. There [00:40:00] are in orphanages in Eastern Europe. As an aftermath of of communism is that they were left in, wrapped in swaddling clothes, basically tight, tightly wrapped and laid in a bassinet and they were never held. They were, except when they were changed.
And even that was, there wasn’t that emotion. And I think they become very passive, or they go to the other extreme.
Chris Gazdik: And get aggressive?
John-Nelson Pope: Right, or they develop a severe personality disorder where they can’t communicate
Chris Gazdik: with people. Yeah, it’s, so honestly John I haven’t really thought about it.
Neil Robinson: You went into a different direction, I think
Chris Gazdik: you’re No, no.
I think you’re wrong. In that But I like being wrong. I think you’re wrong in that I think I’m just thinking about it in this moment. Babies are assertive. I think, is it Is it not fair to [00:41:00] say that yeah Well, I didn’t argue with that. I was just Well, you said that we learn to be assertive. And I’m actually thinking that’s
Neil Robinson: a natural state.
Chris Gazdik: I feel like that’s actually the natural state. So that’s
John-Nelson Pope: kind of the garden. And the idea that, that then when we leave the garden of Eden, basically, when we become more aware, we start becoming aggressive.
Chris Gazdik: I wonder, right? I mean, I would, I’m not
John-Nelson Pope: disagreeing with y’all on that, but I
Chris Gazdik: wouldn’t have thought that before.
This is a new thought for me. I would have agreed with you. I think you have to learn assertiveness training. You have to learn how to be assertive, but you know what? Maybe it’s really relearning what was natural to you that you got away from. That’s a big difference. I would agree
John-Nelson Pope: with you, even on a theological level.
Right? Okay, what do you mean? Well, I mean, the fact is, is that God created the universe and he called it good. And that somehow, we unlearn that and we experience the alienation. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: So I never thought of assertiveness as being the [00:42:00] natural Steady state that that’s homeostasis, that that’s what we do as a natural course of interaction.
I never, but that would also, I’m sorry. No,
John-Nelson Pope: no, but, but that’s where we want to go in it. We all want to have that, that that sort of that, that sense of. Of calm and serenity and, and acceptance. Peace.
Chris Gazdik: Peace. And calm. Yeah. You know, and don’t you feel good when you can express what your needs are? Don’t you feel good when you really have a positive interaction and you feel heard?
Well, you know, that’s being assertive. And so, yeah, well, I mean, honestly, that’s a new state, a new, a new thought, assertiveness as being the natural state that we need to work to return
John-Nelson Pope: to. I want to start my own commune now. Oh, boy. All
Neil Robinson: right.
Chris Gazdik: Do that. Victoria, we, we shut you down. What, what were you No,
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, I was just going to talk about how I mean, cause I, I didn’t teach my kid how to [00:43:00] be assertive, but he’s assertive when he, when I put, we’ll say spaghetti down in front of him and he picks up that plate and he hands it right back to me and he’s like shaking his head, no, and he’s saying he said, you know, he like, he’s pushing it back at my hands.
He’s not being aggressive. He’s being assertive by saying like, I don’t want this, give me something else. And I didn’t teach her that. I mean, he learned, he, he did that all on his own.
John-Nelson Pope: Individuation. That’s what he’s doing. He’s becoming a person.
Neil Robinson: Well, That makes me feel all giddy. He is.
Chris Gazdik: Well, it is, but even before that though, John, I think we, but we may have fallen
Neil Robinson: in the same trap.
He’s becoming a person and telling, you know, I, I think individuation, yes.
Chris Gazdik: It’s a process. Is there not an instinct of assertiveness? Okay.
John-Nelson Pope: Right.
Chris Gazdik: I mean, I’m thinking through
Neil Robinson: this with you because [00:44:00]
Chris Gazdik: developing into the ability of being Saying no or putting letting you you’re saying
John-Nelson Pope: that we’re hardwired. I think so way and and I are we see are we That instinctual to be assertive to be assertive question mark.
Chris Gazdik: Okay,
Neil Robinson: I Mean
Victoria Pendergrass: I think or do you think that it
Neil Robinson: babies cry coming out of the womb? Huh They, they, they tell you when they’re wet, they’re asserting what their needs are.
Chris Gazdik: Well, but
Neil Robinson: is that not, that’s,
John-Nelson Pope: that’s also that they, they think their mommy is, is them. They, I don’t know if I, I don’t know how baby things, but well, yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: they say up until a certain point, up until about, I can’t remember, like six weeks.
Something like that. Six months. Something like that. Yeah. The baby still thinks that they’re, like, inside your, like, still a part of the mom. Oh, really?
Neil Robinson: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. That’s why they like [00:45:00] being on the, on the
Neil Robinson: channel. Yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: that’s why they like, okay. Yeah. That’s why they like contact maps. Because of the warmth of your.
Well, that’s
Chris Gazdik: probably a major adjustment again, imagine
Victoria Pendergrass: switching out going from this nice warm belly to like this crazy
Chris Gazdik: world. Yeah. So,
John-Nelson Pope: so probably I think you’re right that we are, we start out being naturally assertive and we unlearn it through the insults of being of life of life. But then we have to relearn it, relearn.
But I’m not thinking that is. I’m, I’m just looking at it differently than you, but I’m not disagreeing with you. Yeah, okay. I’m being assertive.
Chris Gazdik: I love that job. Okay,
Neil Robinson: but
Chris Gazdik: No, it’s it’s it’s it’s fascinating I guess we’ll move on but I I think we
Victoria Pendergrass: just opened up a Aspect for you Chris that you previously did not think [00:46:00] about
Chris Gazdik: absolutely. No, I’m well, I think I
John-Nelson Pope: think about that You know, I was telling I
Chris Gazdik: mean, I’ve never thought about having assertiveness training be a relearning I was, I
John-Nelson Pope: was telling your better half about how brilliant you are.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, dear God. Yeah. How did she respond to that? Don’t tell me that. No, she did
John-Nelson Pope: not scowl. She didn’t scowl. It was a knowing smile.
Chris Gazdik: Right. That
Neil Robinson: was sarcasm, John. You’re too
Chris Gazdik: kind. All right, let’s move on though. Key characteristics of being assertiveness is basically as we’ve talked about like really setting boundaries and respecting others You know with that kindness and the compassion john that you talked about and we’ll talk more about that next week But here’s a really Interesting discussion that I want to have with you guys.
I hope you didn’t read that sentence that I have in show prep about healthy boundary setting. Okay, how do you set boundaries, guys? What are healthy boundary settings? [00:47:00] I’ve had two things that I’ve always put on that, that I think is, is a, is a, is a really good description of what healthy boundary setting means.
And that is You arrive by these limits and these boundaries by coming to agreements between people or having long term norms. The other ways that you come at boundaries generally are passive or aggressive and generally not, not helpful. I think that’s a, that’s, that’s what I’ve had for, for years. But literally this past week, this came up and I just, I think I just added a piece that is needed potentially in setting boundaries in a healthy way.
Okay. So how do you guys submit to clients or people like setting healthy boundary? I’ll tell you that third thing in a moment, if you didn’t already read it, but, you know, agreements or long term norms are, is there something else that I’ve missed? Well, I’m just going to
John-Nelson Pope: add to that [00:48:00] just a little bit because that’s, that’s like what MSWs are a masters of is group work and the, that you have healthy boundaries, you have Rules in a group.
Yep in a group. Well, wouldn’t that also go with families and absolutely
Chris Gazdik: couples and Absolutely any ended family. Yeah, particularly in groups. Yeah. Well, you
Victoria Pendergrass: know, I will repeat what I have said on this podcast before Okay, is that? And what I tell my clients repeatedly is that boundaries without a consequence are just a heavy suggestion.
Neil Robinson: You know what? You did
Victoria Pendergrass: say that. I’ve said that multiple times before. And I did not come up with that. What? That’s brilliant. Thank you. I did not come up with that. I will not take credit for it. Even though part of me is tempted to. But I will not take credit for it. But I cannot give credit to where it’s credit due because I can’t remember her name.
But Actually, it was a, it was a sermon that I heard from elevation, [00:49:00]
John-Nelson Pope: but we’re standing on shoulders of giants.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, but yeah, not, well, not necessarily any healthy body, but boundaries without consequences are just a heavy suggestion. Well,
Neil Robinson: and, and, but still, you
Chris Gazdik: know, interestingly enough, I’ve heard you say that and, and that fits, I think before, when I agreed it, I may have.
I think I missed a spirit of that and got the bigger part of that. Okay. And the bigger part of that Is, if we make an agreement and you don’t carry through on that agreement, then there needs to be a consequence. If we make an agreement because it’s a long term norm and you change that dramatically, then there needs to be a consequence.
So I’ve always gotten that. Right. But there’s a spirit underneath that that I didn’t get, I missed, if it was intended. Okay. And this is what I’ve added this week. Okay. Okay.
Neil Robinson: [00:50:00] Is it,
Chris Gazdik: is it possible to really set boundaries with other people in a very healthy way through simple requirements? That’s the piece I never did.
Requirements. You have long term norms, or you have agreements. That’s the way we set boundaries. Right. We can also set agreements in a healthy way with just setting requirements.
John-Nelson Pope: So it’s accountability?
Neil Robinson: Yeah. Well,
John-Nelson Pope: so give me an example of a
Victoria Pendergrass: requirement that’s what yeah, I need to elaborate a
Neil Robinson: little bit on
Chris Gazdik: okay I’ll tell you why this came up because we were really working on boundaries this week.
It was a Separating and divorcing where they have a new life partner actually domestic partner now They’re living with somebody else and they’re working with their ex or soon to be ex and it’s kind of like Boundary setting there and it occurred to me. Wait a minute you’re being passive. He’s like, yeah, I know I’m being passive, and I want to do work on this, and [00:51:00] so I’m like, great.
But it occurred to me, he’s setting boundaries with his ex, and his ex is sometimes going to be not agreeable to what he wants. In interacting with him and they don’t really have long term norms because this is all new anyway So really he’s needing to place a requirement in this scenario So that they they know how we’re going to interact Otherwise, he’s just not going to interact for instance to be ridiculous victoria You’re my ex and respectfully i’m going to require that you not punch me in the face when we have conversations Period if you do that, I will leave that’s a requirement.
Okay, and that’s ridiculous. So example But I’m going to place that as a requirement. But parenting? Parenting.
John-Nelson Pope: It would be a good example. Sure.
Chris Gazdik: Right? But to make it more real, if you’re my ex, Victoria, and I say, Look, I don’t like it when you raise your voice. Right. It’s uncomfortable to me. And when you, you begin getting aggressive that way.
[00:52:00] So I will not have a conversation when you do that. Okay. That’s a requirement that I’m placing on this interaction from now moving forward. Okay, it’s not an agreement. It’s not a long term norm. So the question I have to you Is this a really healthy and strong way to set boundaries? What say y’all? Oh
John-Nelson Pope: I’m go ahead.
No
Neil Robinson: I
John-Nelson Pope: want to say that that’s covenant. You’re making a covenant. And so it’s a higher than a contract. So a requirements would be like a contract, I mean, or or saying I’ve got boundaries and it’s a contract. I’m not going to go over your, your property and all that, but a covenant would be actually having that still that involvement that that person is actively.
participating. I’m not going to punch you in the face. I [00:53:00] agree. I’m not going to do that. And I’m going to abide by that. And so there’s a requirement.
Chris Gazdik: Okay, but that’s the covenant is a strong, strong word. And that is a commitment that we make to each other in agreement. So that was in my old thinking. You know, we make agreements and those are the boundaries that we create or we have long term norms the example I always use is we have Sunday meals together at you know brunches or lunch brunch lunch dinner at two o’clock every Sunday We sit down so, you know here in three days.
Well, I think a coven
John-Nelson Pope: it’s overweening. It’s a it’s it’s it’s organic
Victoria Pendergrass: but then when it If so, say your requirement is that you would appreciate, you know, that I not punch you in the face whenever we have a conversation or argument, but then if you agree to, if I agree to that, then wouldn’t that just be an
Neil Robinson: agreement, right?
Chris Gazdik: Right. Exactly. I’m getting lost here.
Neil Robinson: I think I’m
Chris Gazdik: getting lost here. When he’s speaking to his ex, she may not be agreeable. [00:54:00] Okay. And he can still set a requirement. And I’ve never thought about it that way. Okay.
Neil Robinson: I
Victoria Pendergrass: don’t know. I don’t know. I’m gonna be honest. I don’t exactly feel like I’m tracking you.
You’re,
John-Nelson Pope: you’re fleshing this theory out. And it’s going to take a while for it to germinate and it will grow and you’ll be able to, to uh, convince her.
Chris Gazdik: Indeed. Well, I
John-Nelson Pope: know I’m serious. I’m really, I’m, I’m saying it.
Chris Gazdik: OH, Neil
Neil Robinson: has something to
Chris Gazdik: say.
John-Nelson Pope: Okay. Okay. Neil.
Neil Robinson: Talk about pressure. Like everyone stops and stares at me.
It’s, it’s kind of when you start negotiating, you have to be assertive in what you want in the agreement. And so the requirement is your side. This is what I’m saying. I want in this part,
Victoria Pendergrass: whether or not the other person agrees to it. Exactly. Okay.
Neil Robinson: I got being assertive with what you want. And if you don’t set your requirements out [00:55:00] there, you guys can’t come to an agreement.
So there’s an assertiveness to setting a requirement to start those
Victoria Pendergrass: boundaries. So like a requirement could be, I would, you know, I would like to sit down and have dinner as a family every night. Now, whether or not the family is agreeable to that is, is, is up for question, but that could be like a requirement for that.
I, I would, you know, I’m like,
Neil Robinson: you
Chris Gazdik: know, I think you were tracking me. With that, it sounds like, and it’s, it’s tricky though, because, and I guess I’m curious what you would say, Neil, to that, because Victoria, like, no,
Neil Robinson: you, you gotta be really careful
Chris Gazdik: with this one, and you’re right, John, this is why I’ll flesh it out, and I appreciate it, I think it’s a cool conversation about assertiveness and boundaries, right, because, you know, Long term norms is easy to say yeah, that’s how we set boundaries agreements and making agreements in any fashion whether a covenant whether it’s Conversation whether it’s group rules, we have agreements and [00:56:00] those are boundaries But but Neil you kind of picked out the idea that there are times when the other person doesn’t agree It might not be what they want But we do have, and so we set a requirement, but we do have to be careful that they’re not unrealistic requirements.
You can’t require your family to sit down to a meal all
Neil Robinson: the time every day. Like, they may
Victoria Pendergrass: not agree. Right, that’s what I’m saying.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, well, so, you follow that, Neil? Like, how do you, how do you
Neil Robinson: hear that? Well, like I said, it’s like a contract negotiation. Okay,
Victoria Pendergrass: so maybe I say dinner, I want to sit down and have dinner with my family three out of the seven nights.
Sure. A week. Well, well,
Neil Robinson: even, even still, your, your requirement is you want to have dinner every night. Now, it’s up to you to handle when things don’t go your way, because life happens. But you still have a requirement of what you want. It’s about being a servant. It’s about stating what you want. That’s the important part in this whole process is, is when you’re in a relationship, it’s not you becoming [00:57:00] passive aggressive because the husband’s not doing what you want.
Well, you never told him that you want to have dinner every night. Okay. It’s clear requirements of what you expect out of this, out of these boundaries. Whether they agree with it or not, you have to come to the table with, here’s what I’m offering, here’s what I want. And that goes back to the assertiveness.
Assertiveness is a confidence in presenting what you want out of the, out of the deal.
John-Nelson Pope: But it’s, it’s a process too. And I’m thinking that’s, and for me, the idea is, is that you, you can have boundaries and boundaries for your children when they’re six, five, and four. And this is the rules we’re going to be meeting for, for dinner all the time.
You do it all the time.
Chris Gazdik: Right. There’s a long
John-Nelson Pope: term. Right. So long term is the idea is that that may be negotiable in terms of like, as you get older and you get involved in sports, but the long term goals is that you all still meet for [00:58:00] dinner.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. So this has been really fun. I didn’t expect this. much discussion about either the current event, nor this, but these are two good discussions.
So here’s where I’m landing guys as a, as a little bit of a landing spot, cause we need to taxi into some extent. Here today actually. Is it appropriate to say the ideal way to set boundaries is that you make and forge agreements together or you have long term norms that are really long term and on rare occasions you may need to place requirements into the mix when the other person’s not agreeable.
But, but I’m adding that, Neil, because what you’re saying is that’s part of Negotiating which isn’t reaching agreements, but I’m saying sometimes particularly like in the situation with an ex spouse You may need to place a requirement where they’re not agreeable, but that sounds like from our discussion I’m gathering should be [00:59:00] kind of rare.
Does that sound yeah, is that a better? Yeah That’s a better landing space, isn’t it? Because I mean, you know, that just occurred to me. I haven’t, it really is. It’s a bit of a new thought this, this week about the third piece there. That sometimes you’re still gonna need to set boundaries in a healthy way and you might not be able to reach agreement with the other person.
What
John-Nelson Pope: if, what if you’re in a committed relationship or marriage a long term partnership and one of the clients develops a serious mental illness and there is a real need for assertiveness because the, the other person has lost the ability to have. boundary.
Chris Gazdik: Well, so that’s set up part two. You just set up our conversation next week in a lot of ways because we’re going to talk about the benefits to assertiveness and what people struggle with, with passive and aggressive tendencies and, and really the, the, the, the tendencies that we have.
To, to [01:00:00] become, you know, assertive, what we have to overcome and how we, how we develop it. So it’ll be a little bit of assertiveness training and stuff next time because yeah, when you’re there and that’s, you know, that’s not the only one, John, you know, as well as I do. There are, there are situations where, you know, life really turns on a dime and if you’re not having grown into the ability to be assertive or as we, Learned a little bit ago, relearn the natural state of being assertive, then you’re going to be in trouble because, you know, there’s a problem in, in, in, in the relationship when it turns like that.
And you have to, you don’t have those skills, you’re going to get run over. You will get run over. You will be a milk toast. It is an uncomfortable space to be. That’s a word. Boy, John and Victoria had a look just now. Oh my goodness. You gotta check out the YouTube. Hey, we’re [01:01:00] asking for subscribers on YouTube.
We’re trying to push to a thousand. So
Neil Robinson: here’s a task. Tell your friends, tell your family. Tell the strangers you walk by
Chris Gazdik: on the street. You would have seen the look that was on there. I’m irritating
John-Nelson Pope: her today. I tell ya.
Neil Robinson: I wonder about some of the things that come out of your mouth sometimes.
Chris Gazdik: Alright, listen, anything to add winding up in our conversation today?
I’m surprised about it. We’re going to change the title of the show, but Be assertive. Yeah, yeah, okay. John, closing thoughts, comments? There is a Santa Claus. Yes, indeed.
John-Nelson Pope: Yes, I believe there is a Santa Claus.
Chris Gazdik: I believe there is a Santa Claus. It may not,
John-Nelson Pope: as we traditionally know. But we do there
Chris Gazdik: is so listen, we’re going to talk about holiday maybe elven the shelf I don’t know next time.
As well, but we’ll get into holiday stuff and more on assertiveness next week guys thanks for hanging out with us. Take care Work to [01:02:00] be well and happy holiday season See you next week. Bye