The show has talked many times about how implicit biases can affect a person without them knowing it. That means the first step a person must go through is to be able to identify the bias. Once identified, then you must take the time to work on repairing those false beliefs that have been created from those past experiences and traumas.
Tune in to see Repairing False Beliefs Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- Is this a part of Millennial commitment fears?
- Do you actively think about and thus re frame what happened to you with perceptions, or even aware that they are active.
- Did you listen to the show on implicit bias: Episode 173 Why Do We Believe What We Believe: Implicit Bias Part 1 – Ep173
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
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Episode #259 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello, there I am Chris Gazdik with Through A Therapist’s Eyes here talking to you on January the 18th. We are in 2024 riding with you in the new year. And we’re real happy that you’ve joined us yet again. We’re going to be talking about pat repairing past false beliefs. That’s kind of hard to say repairing past alliteration, the alliteration.
Yes. That is the Pope. Mr. John Pope with us. It’s
John-Nelson Pope: nice to be here. It’s nice to still be here. Right? We were just As I’m getting, getting past 70, man.
Chris Gazdik: Ha! You’re getting there. You’re getting there. Miss Victoria Pendergrass is with us in Good evening. The evening as well. You’re a little tired. I am exhausted.
That baby not letting you sleep?
Victoria Pendergrass: That and I, I just, I just don’t
Chris Gazdik: sleep. You know, I didn’t [00:01:00] have a good night’s sleep last night either. We need to talk after the show. So, the question is that we have is We had a
John-Nelson Pope: professor at seminary, we called him Dr. Salman X. Salman X? Salman X was a sleep aid.
Chris Gazdik: I was going to say, that must be old school sleep aid.
Yeah. Because he took a lot of them? Or he gave you. He made us go gave you an in dose every
time
John-Nelson Pope: he did it. This is like Ferris Bueller’s day off. That’s terrible. Bueller! I’m
Chris Gazdik: sorry. Is this a part of the millennial commitment fear? Repairing past false beliefs? Provocative from last show. Do you actively think about and thus reframe what happened to you with perceptions or even aware that they are active?
provocative question and then a little bit of a burr question, you know, it’s kind of a mean question, but Did you listen to the show an implicit bias episode 173 because this is all about that in a lot of ways [00:02:00] Listen, we are Panel of therapists sharing mental health and substance abuse knowledge with you not delivering therapy services of any kind We ask you to subscribe to the YouTube channel It is helpful as what we’re trying to do this year to help see us live and check out some of the shorts We’re creating nowadays.
So go to that on through a therapist eyes you type it in when you’re at YouTube John wants five stars.
John-Nelson Pope: Yes five stars because that takes us up to the top.
Chris Gazdik: Yes The algorithm, you really get upset at four stars, don’t you? Yes, I do. That’s a thing for you. I think you jumped right on that.
John-Nelson Pope: Well, every podcast I listened to, they say, give us five stars.
And we are certainly,
Chris Gazdik: we’re up there with them. We’re up there with them. And we’re not, we’re not so far. Yeah. No, no. Okay. Yeah. Five stars. Listen first horizon bank is our sponsor and we are glad that they are still hanging out with us. They’ve got branches all around the country. I suspect [00:03:00] the world first horizon bank.
That’s a quick google question. Neil does first horizon bank have branches in other spaces of the world. We need to know that.
John-Nelson Pope: I think they have, how many branches do they have, like 400 something? They have
Chris Gazdik: a lot of branches. A lot of branches. First Horizon, and we know they’re based out of? Victoria.
Memphis. Oh man, we’re gonna get you on this. There’s gonna be a time when questions is asked about our show sponsor, First Horizon Bank. out of Memphis. She is going to give a quick answer on. That’s not Memphis, Egypt. That’s not Egypt or Memphis, Florida. Is there a Memphis, Egypt?
John-Nelson Pope: Yes, there was. And there’s a Memphis, Florida.
Do we have
Victoria Pendergrass: a Memphis, North Carolina?
Chris Gazdik: We just got to pay the bills by having First Horizon Bank being known as a good bank. Thanks for joining us.
Victoria Pendergrass: horizon from our office.
Chris Gazdik: We can. That’s one of the reasons why we bank with first horizon bank. All right. What else I got to tell you? That’s probably good.
Listen, this is the human emotional experience which [00:04:00] we endeavor to figure out together. Let me tell you what the origination of this show was, which recently has been kind of more often obsession events or session experiences. A lot of the shows that we do are that. But you know, I was in session last week.
And John, it was actually after I asked you, what do you want to talk about? And I think it was, when did I ask you yesterday? Nevermind. Check, check that, that that’s that I’m way off. Anyway, I was in session with somebody and we were talking about. Her, the reflection that she had of really being able to do this, which was actively and purposefully look at events in her life and repairing these beliefs that she had developed perceptions that she had from pretty tough.
First was trauma. We’re going to talk about trauma realities, but we’re also going to talk about [00:05:00] misperceptions. Misperceptions, misperceived realities, misunderstandings, mis messaging that she was doing in her mind about trauma that she had in her life. It must have been a
John-Nelson Pope: misunderstanding. With herself.
Right. Okay. I was doing the Genesis
Chris Gazdik: song. I was wondering if there was a song there. Yes, there was a song. What’s the Genesis song? He gotta help me. I love Genesis was
John-Nelson Pope: standing in the ring. It must have been a misunderstanding.
Chris Gazdik: Yes. Okay. I, I love Genesis. Genesis. I do too. I’m a big Genesis fan. It, so, so I have no idea who that is.
They’re number one. Like,
Victoria Pendergrass: and Neil just gave me a look because I said that ,
Chris Gazdik: did you see if they have branches in the other parts of the world you didn’t see, or they don’t No, they do not. How many branches do they have? There are 3,330 branches out of. All right, we’re gonna help you man. Next time we introduce another sponsor, you’re gonna like bang right on
Victoria Pendergrass: it
Chris Gazdik: So, what do you guys think about this topic [00:06:00] right let’s let’s let’s kind of dig in a little bit here to You know, I mean your therapy brains must know that we’re dealing with this all the time, right?
Like so what do you what do you think about this? How do you how do you see this? It’s a complicated process I think I’m gonna come to you first Victoria like being newer into the field the younger of the variety old people here with it How do you have how have you made sense of the complicated process to repair your Past false beliefs.
Victoria Pendergrass: I think one thing is starting with accepting or realizing or whatnot, that a lot of people, most people experience this, whether they realize it or not. And so
Chris Gazdik: like, you did that mid sentence stop thing. I wasn’t sure if we were, yes, I’m, I’m using, I’m looking at,
Victoria Pendergrass: well, so yes, that most people. [00:07:00] experience these with, maybe without even realizing it.
And it’s actually, I don’t, I hate, I was talking about this earlier today in session. I hate using the word. It’s not like normal or average or whatnot, but it is kind of normal. I mean, like,
Chris Gazdik: no, I agree. I
John-Nelson Pope: agree with you. We’re so limited in language. It is a
Victoria Pendergrass: pretty regular thing. We’re
Chris Gazdik: so limited in language.
I’m going to let that go too. No,
Victoria Pendergrass: I’m just saying me personally, I hate using the word normal because I don’t really think that normal is a thing, but
John-Nelson Pope: You’re
Victoria Pendergrass: within the bell curve. Yeah. Okay. That happens to a lot of people. And I think that’s kind of like the first step in accepting that you’re not the only person that experiences these false beliefs.
Chris Gazdik: You know, I love the word normal in, in, in this, in this instance, especially, and I think you’re absolutely right on point because the reality of it is these things are very, very typical, [00:08:00] very, very common. And I do not think it is typical though, or common. And what say you guys. that people become aware of their individual false beliefs, right?
And that’s, that’s the real rub. That’s the real danger. Well, because
Victoria Pendergrass: a lot of times it’s been a part of their life for a significant, yeah, significant amount of time. And it’s one of those things that maybe at the beginning they kind of questioned it, but. It just stuck around. And so then it gets to that point where you’re just like, Oh, it’s just like, you don’t even know it’s there.
Chris Gazdik: And back to my real moment that was the genesis of the show. It was a traumatic reality involving some domestic violence and various traumas that kind of went along with that. And the belief was that This person was alone, really alone in the experiences that they were having and [00:09:00] that no one, that no one was willing to, to save them.
That’s what their thought was? Yeah, and it was, it was cool because literally as, You know, we were talking about that or that statement was made. You saw like a, a, a, a new and developing active ability to switch over into a different belief that is more reality based, if you will. That is more grounded in an objective truth, which is of course there were people all around her probably, you know, that were willing and interested and able, likely afraid to, didn’t know how to, but wanted to literally save her, particularly if they knew what was going on.
Which they might not have even known. So, it’s just, you see what I’m saying? Like, that is a completely switched belief. [00:10:00] So, yeah. Let me, let me, let me jump back to you, John, though, with you know, we, we, we see this all the time, we deal with this all the time. I know your extensive experience with the military.
You know, there’s all kind of false beliefs that you’re kind of, you know, so, so what, what are your thoughts off the front end of this? Well, I’m,
John-Nelson Pope: excuse me, I, I was thinking about as you were talking not just the trauma, but false beliefs kind of took me back to a time during the civil rights we just got off MLK Martin Luther King day and, and that sort of thing.
And I, I kind of grew up during that, that time. And I remember that my grandparents on my father’s side, wonderful, wonderful people, salt of the earth people, but they would have never thought about having African Americans that worked for them during haying season to pick up to, to sit at the same table and that was a.
That was a problem. There was a, there was a [00:11:00] bias that they grew up with and to see them over the years at that from, let’s say the early sixties to the seventies where there was no, nothing about that anymore. And so they changed. And I guess that’s what I was thinking with implicit biases. The bias you grow up with, it, it constrains you.
It actually encumbers you from seeing people as, as for possibilities of having new relationships.
Chris Gazdik: And so in that way, you’re saying you, you saw an active change in mentality or understanding and. Appreciation of, of the moment and on a grand level, a societal level, you saw a lot. And I think that’s repairing
John-Nelson Pope: false pollution.
And I, I don’t want us to go back to the old ways.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Again, we
Victoria Pendergrass: always want things to be better, not how they. I think I’ve mentioned that before.
Chris Gazdik: I think [00:12:00] so. And, and, and we’ve talked about this before, really, I mean, I think that you want to check out episode 173. That was one of the questions, like, did you listen to that show? Because really, and John, you said that we talked about this before, in a way, yes, because you know, we’re, we’re, we’re dealing with trauma, we’re dealing with things from our past and how they play out in present day.
John-Nelson Pope: Okay. Well, that’s, for example, in trauma, one of the, the issues that, that I’ve dealt with Particularly with the military is they see somebody get killed. And they and it’s a child and then they start to get very angry and they blame themselves. They feel guilt. They don’t feel like they could go into church.
They can’t even go to a church there. They’re angry. Yeah. Raw stuff. It’s raw stuff. And my feeling is in something like PTSD, there’s a very strong spiritual component. And if you ignore that, you’re not going to help that person heal. And, and that they have to, to be able [00:13:00] to, to, to forgive. Forgive themselves, forgive what they’ve done.
If they’ve had to do something, take a life. Or and also f forgive God. In a sense that, that in, in that understanding of God is being like, it’s not fair, it’s not fair. And so they, they live with that by that that anger or that constraint that I think stifles their relationships with other people.
Sure developing trust.
Chris Gazdik: There’s just a lot there and and so let’s dissect it a little bit And you know how to get that the YouTube question that we have is pretty cool Is in Carolyn your thank you. You’re you’re welcome. I should say she says, thank you. We said I said you’re welcome So the YouTube question is where you know, where do these things come from parents religion?
school society propaganda and we want to talk about that as a matter of fact It’s a good segue To, to kind of go into [00:14:00] just exactly that, right? I know where I want
John-Nelson Pope: to go to, and I’m not going
Chris Gazdik: to understand and how false beliefs can and do develop. So again, I mentioned these can be trauma based. I want to, I want to challenge us to.
To think differently as clinicians for a moment because I think we’re so geared to easily go to trauma work. I mean it, trauma work is a bit, right, you know, it’s all through this. All through schooling, all through everything, yeah. But let’s get away from our clinical brains in the sense of trauma work and think about all of us.
That haven’t experienced trauma for a moment and talk about, you know, this YouTube question, for instance, where does this stuff come from? These things
that we believe that somehow we don’t know. are false beliefs and it doesn’t just happen in trauma. It, it’s, it’s a universal part of the human emotional experience.
So where do these come from for you, me, you know, the listener person [00:15:00] here that doesn’t experience or hasn’t experienced traumatic events?
Victoria Pendergrass: I would say everything she listed. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it literally can come from parents, how you were raised, the school you went to, like. Even can come from like the church you grew up in it can do it can come from like all of those places I think yeah, I’m and I don’t think you’re right.
Sorry I don’t agree that it doesn’t have to just be trauma related right? Like there doesn’t have to be trauma in your How your parents parented you. But there can still be some, like these of these false beliefs that develop because of the life experiences in certain
Chris Gazdik: times of place. So, you know, what comes to my mind is, I’m listening to you, you, y’all know that activity that people do, you know, when they go do a program and they go into a high school and they line [00:16:00] everybody up on the, the, the gym floor At the, yeah.
At the baseline, under the basket. And they say, okay, if you’ve ever experienced. What we’re going to say, all we want you to do is just to take one step forward. So have you ever experienced someone calling you a geek and you know, a couple people step forward? Yeah. Has anyone ever called you stupid? And has anyone ever said you’re ugly?
Or has anyone ever said, you know, or, or have you ever been stood up on a date? You know, you actually did that. Did. Oh, that’s
Victoria Pendergrass: cool. Did we? We had the Challenge day programs, right? Two
John-Nelson Pope: hours school and did it every day. Is everybody
Chris Gazdik: a victim at that point? What you see, John, if in this activity that I just described, of course, is that there isn’t anybody left on the baseline and, and, and, and the person has probably gone at least halfway across the gym that has the least amount of steps they’ve taken.
Victoria Pendergrass: And plus, and I’ve seen it differently where people just cross a lot, like there’s two lines, everyone’s on one side. And if it applies to
you, you go to the other side and look at the [00:17:00] other people specifically. Like, I remember. One of the questions was do you feel like you experienced a true childhood or something like that and only like a small majority of people like cross the line Everybody that stayed back felt like felt like they had to grow up a lot faster and didn’t really get to experience like a childhood Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: and like Yes, John.
Yeah. No, I’ve just. Yeah. John’s bursting with thoughts. Let me come to you in a moment. Just saying. We live. I’m sorry. Yeah. You’ve been bursting for a minute or so. The, this activity demonstrates to me, to your point, Victoria, like the reality is that we really are all affected in some way, shape or form by the emotional experiences that we’ve had.
Yeah. And then. into how we believe. So you’ve been bursting, John.
John-Nelson Pope: I’m going to say that [00:18:00] we have taught people and inculcated in them a sense that they big word. What’s that mean? Inculcate. In other words, we’ve kind of I don’t want to say brainwashed, but we kind of brainwash, brainwash, put it in people’s mentality that everybody is helpless and hopeless to a certain extent by saying that they love this.
Don’t have right. Right. And I didn’t have a normal childhood, but I had a great childhood at the same time. Right? I mean, there was trauma. I fell off a hay wagon and nearly killed myself, right? I mean, that sort of thing, right, Nick? Yeah. I got histoplasmosis and I couldn’t breathe. I nearly had to be hospitalized.
It wasn’t normal, you know? And yeah. Excuse me. And I think we’ve, we’ve, we’ve made it so that everybody is so special that we don’t have empowerment.
Victoria Pendergrass: Everybody gets a participation
Chris Gazdik: award. Speak it, [00:19:00] John. Speak it, John. All right. We,
John-Nelson Pope: yes, everybody gets, my daughter didn’t show up to, because we had church on Sunday, she didn’t show up to nine tenths of the soccer games that she played.
She got an award. My My daughter Bethany You know, it’s just it’s it’s ridiculous
Chris Gazdik: to me. So the so the interesting thing here is I Was I don’t think I had us on the show. No, that’s why I love this You know, we got a great panel
John-Nelson Pope: and I think they should be compassionate and empathetic Well,
Chris Gazdik: absolutely John and and the thing is is Jen, Jen, Jen X, we parented and brought all this stuff in.
So we, we need to be acknowledging and aware of that. I’ve been very, like you said last time, I know it’s, I’m, I’m so worried that my whole cohort screwed everything up because your cohort, John screwed our heads up. And anyway, yeah, we did. You know, I mean, we have done this to the millennials. I
John-Nelson Pope: wasn’t, I wasn’t old.
I’m, I’m a young baby [00:20:00] boomer. So I wasn’t young. My kids are millennials, you know, think about
Chris Gazdik: this, right? So you’re, you’re like kind of an honorary Gen X person, John. Yes, I am. That’s cool. We’ll accept you in. Thank
John-Nelson Pope: you. I, I, I identify more with Gen Xers.
Chris Gazdik: Here, but here’s, here’s what I’m really getting at.
Victoria, you made, you answered the question that was put, that was put on YouTube. You know, does this come from religion? Does this come from propaganda? Does this come from our parents? Does this, you know what? I think it comes from us. Yeah. And John, I think that’s what you were getting at. Yes. This is an empowerment reality that thank goodness it comes from us internally in relationship to all those things.
But we have developed, and I think this is so important. This is why when you started talking, John, I saw you were jumping out of your skin and we’re connecting on this because. We need to understand that we are creating these false beliefs. Exactly. Our parents didn’t religion. [00:21:00] Didn’t propaganda. Listen, the propaganda issues that we have in the information technology doesn’t, we are accountable to what we’re believing, perceiving, experiencing, thinking, rationalizing, minimizing all of that.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, I mean, I guess you kind of said it that I, yes, I think I would kind of agree with that, that we created ourselves, but we creat
ourselves based on the experiences that we have with all of those places. Absolutely. So the experiences you have with religion create, then you create, then yes, you create that belief yourself, but it’s based off of your experiences within whatever religion
John-Nelson Pope: is.
So we put our, we. We have blinders that are given to us by the culture that we’re in and the situation and the time [00:22:00] and in a sense that we are indeed very privileged to live in the United States of America in 2024, but, but there is a sense that we will choose to stay with those fetters, those binders, blinders.
And so when we have the opportunity to be challenged, we don’t see it, we don’t seize it, we don’t change. And so you get a generation that is known, and I hate to say this because evidently we boomers I, if I hear okay boomer anymore, I will just burst.
Chris Gazdik: I love that from last session.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah, but, but the, the, there is a stereotype for people that are millennials.
And I don’t think it’s necessarily fair, but there’s some truth to it. I think it’s incumbent upon the, the baby boom, not the baby boomer, but the Gen Xer or the millennial to say, okay, or [00:23:00] Gen Z rather. We, we don’t have to be constrained by that. We can choose a different way. We can choose to be better.
Chris Gazdik: Well, let’s get back to the individual perspective on this and, and, and go into the micro rather than just the big macro, because this is what we’re trying to really begin to focus on for ourselves, our own experience, our own false beliefs that we all really have. How does this happen and does this happen?
Can this develop? I mean. You have got to understand listening that this is talking about you, whether you’ve identified something as traumatic in your life or not, you have implicit biases. You have beliefs about your life that we need to look at to reframe and re understand. This causes so much pain for an individual person causes so much pain.
John-Nelson Pope: Can you give me an example? Let’s say you’ve [00:24:00] something that perhaps something you’ve been doing in terms of counseling or, you know, I’ll give you
Chris Gazdik: a personal example that I’ve used on the show before and it’s one where, you know, really still feel awkward about today. Remember when I talked about dancing?
Yes. Right. I mean, that moment was indelible in my, in my youth. As a young adult going out to the dance floor, you know, trying to hit on some girl that I wanted to hit on that night, you know, it didn’t work out. She totally blew me off. I felt like an idiot anyway. Uptight out of sight. Absolutely. I go back to the table and there’s Matt looking at me saying, dude, don’t ever do that again.
I mean, it was crushing. Yeah. You know, and you never did it. You never danced. Hell no. Hell to the no. Because it’s just, I never enjoyed dancing a whole lot anyway, but that, you know, now understand, I believed I don’t dance well, that that was a false belief because [00:25:00] I can dance like anybody else can. I mean, I guess I don’t really enjoy it probably because of that stuff, but.
It’s a false belief, John. It’s such a simplistic way of being turned down when I got hit on one night. Right? That’s how easy
John-Nelson Pope: this can happen. So you reinforce the myth that, that this is going to be, you’re going to be awkward, you’re going to be Right. And interesting to the point we
Chris Gazdik: were talking about with you, Victoria, is that Matt’s issue?
Did he create that for me? Or was that me?
Victoria Pendergrass: No, I mean, he’s not the one that got up
Chris Gazdik: and tried to dance. He literally told me not to ever do that again. In a stark way. In a strong way. In somebody that was, that was, that was my boy. I mean, he was my buddy, right? But I mean, I guess
Victoria Pendergrass: if you believe that like, people have choices, then you can choose to believe that, or you can choose to like, internalize it.
Absolutely. And make it real yourself.
Chris Gazdik: It’s my responsibility. I did that. I am accountable. So it’s
Victoria Pendergrass: basically just like overgeneralization.
Chris Gazdik: Well, yeah, what do you mean?
Victoria Pendergrass: Overgeneralization, part of like CBT, which [00:26:00] states that just because something happened once it’s gonna happen. It happens all the time.
Like, for example, if I eat sushi and get sick, then I become afraid to eat sushi because every time I eat sushi, I feel I think I’m going to get sick, right? And so then that’s like, this, or you miss, you miss the bus once, You end up on your way to school because you had to like run back and use the bathroom and so then you end up going out to the bus like 30 minutes early every day because you feel like you’re going to miss
Chris Gazdik: the bus.
It sounds like Victoria’s had some experiences. No, I’m just kidding. I think I had a
John-Nelson Pope: sushi incident and I was I was and I was on a a Japanese ship back in at Subic Bay that had docked and they served a sushi and it was a little too. So I, I well, sushi’s
Chris Gazdik: supposed to be raw, but he said, right,
Victoria Pendergrass: not raw flies.
John-Nelson Pope: [00:27:00] Okay.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, that’s bad. Yeah. Oh, that’s disgusting. So
Victoria Pendergrass: I’m sorry. You’re probably better eating that sushi. I have in the fridge. That’s just from yesterday.
Chris Gazdik: And so what’s a false belief did that create for you? That,
John-Nelson Pope: that I will never, I’m not going to hit sushi. Every time I, I, it turns my stomach. And that’s why I gave you the ninth degree about who’s sushi, sushi.
That
Chris Gazdik: was he was busted me up. He’s like, do you get all this fancy? How, what did you call it? This fancy food or whatever?
Victoria Pendergrass: The sushi came from Sam’s club. Okay. Don’t harp on Sam’s
John-Nelson Pope: club. I give at Sam’s club a wide berth.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. Okay. Let’s just, okay, let’s put, let me focus us in here. Let me focus this in a little bit, right?
Yeah, like This is a big deal in the way that you’ve experienced your life, like literally, non traumatically, you have these little experiences, and I’m [00:28:00] sure you’re listening, and you’re thinking about your own experience, and that’s wonderful, like, I really want to encourage you to do that. What? The ability, the ability to look at your life experience that stuck with you, and then look at.
What beliefs you developed from that and the cool thing is that you can challenge that belief and begin to re understand it and reframe it. It’s one of the reasons why I wrote the book title, Through a Therapist’s Eyes, Re Understanding, fill in the blank and fill in the blank because I’m going to write another book or two with the same.
Freaking concept because it’s that big of a deal, right?
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, I was gonna say that that’s why I like your example the dancing example because that’s a non traumatic event Right that happened to you.
Chris Gazdik: And so is the sushi? Yeah
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, that might have been a little traumatic Well, like yours is a good example because I think it does show that it doesn’t have to be this like big old thing.
Like [00:29:00] I was in a car wreck or like I was, I was doing all these big dramatic things. It was simple as like I made a fool of myself on the dance floor and like my friend made a comment like that’s not, you know, and so I think that that shows that that’s where, okay.
John-Nelson Pope: Now if you wanna get serious. Okay. You talk about somebody that gets traffick human trafficked.
Yeah. You know, and exploited.
Chris Gazdik: Say that what? Human. Human trafficked. Human trafficking. Trafficked Human. Human trafficked. Is that what you’re saying? Human trafficked. I can’t
John-Nelson Pope: trafficked. There’s a part of my
Chris Gazdik: brain that’s not capable of doing it. Someone that was a victim of human trafficking. Is that what you’re saying?
Yes, yes,
John-Nelson Pope: a victim. Now, it’s horrible. It’s horrible. Right, yeah. But they’re going to be told that they’re unlovely, they’re not worthy, and they, they actually, they embrace, unfortunately, and that’s a horrible way of using a wonderful word like embrace, but [00:30:00] they, they have basically been in a straitjacket that won’t allow them to, to see life.
That isn’t abused and abusive and I think that they carry that with them and so that’s a that is Something that’s evil that continues on with them and can be carried on to their children in their children’s
Chris Gazdik: intergenerational if we’re not reframing if we’re not managing it if we’re not because we can Reframe and manage even in the circumstances of significant traumas like human trafficking.
Absolutely. And you know what, John? It’s becoming a lot more familiar. Yeah. Sadly, it’s become common to be engaged in human trafficking. Yes. Yeah. It is starting to really dangerously just explode. I mean, it is unbelievable. And that’s Yeah. Go ahead.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, no, I mean, human trafficking is like [00:31:00] the biggest business in the world, basically.
I mean, it’s the most profitable.
John-Nelson Pope: And I know I come down on social media all the time, but that’s where a lot of people get trapped into it and they get phished and then they get, they get exploited.
Chris Gazdik: And yeah, young girls are getting onto these sites and making good money, getting good jobs. You know, and I think the
Victoria Pendergrass: important thing is, it’s not just women or girls.
Oh, thank you. It can be boys too.
Chris Gazdik: 100%. In fact, more times than not, you know, yeah, it’s, it’s the percentage of probably pretty don’t quote me on this, but pretty close to 50, 50
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah, it’s, it’s
Chris Gazdik: sad. It’s real. Yeah, it’s very real. Okay, so let’s and we’ll we’ll get more at that. Let’s let’s let’s say we could
Victoria Pendergrass: do like a whole episode on the mental effects and like all the things regarding.
Yeah, we actually like human trafficking
Chris Gazdik: and we do need things like that one on that. I agree. May maybe mark that down. [00:32:00] John or Victoria, I have a challenge for one of you two off the cuff, which one of you wants to do a little schematic on what is implicit bias? A brief on episode 1 73. He says her real quick.
Hey, you’re the one
John-Nelson Pope: that listened to the episode. I, I didn’t listen to the episode. Oh, well it was forever. You supposed to do it? No, I said I didn’t listen to it. Oh, I feel guilty. It was written forever
Chris Gazdik: ago. I saw.
Victoria Pendergrass: I don’t know. Impl I think implicit bias is just I don’t know. I’m backing out of
John-Nelson Pope: this one. Oh.
So it’s internalized, right? It’s a bias. A bias that you have internally. It might be your story. And your narrative. And you say, okay, well, I can never change. This always happens to me. You replay the tapes over and over again. And so you have a bias against yourself. And your better interest. [00:33:00] Or the way you view the world or do you think everybody’s against me?
I’m going to eat some worms, right? Right, right. Am I Touching on that
Chris Gazdik: you’re absolutely on point and and the thing that that that we need to understand about that that we took a deep dive on in episode 173 is the implicit nature of this versus the explicit nature. You have some biases that you might be explicitly aware of.
I think West Virginia’s the best union in, best state in the union. That’s where I’m from. It’s got great land masses. It’s got amazing beautiful state parks, national forests, all that. Outdoor, anything you want to do, man. The New River Gorge, almost heaven, Westbrook, my God, Virginia. You got me going. Okay.
Look, that’s just my explicit opinion. That’s my explicit bias. But what’s super dangerous about this, all that you were saying, John, there is the implicit nature of it. We don’t even know we have them. [00:34:00]
Victoria Pendergrass: So what would be the implicit side of
Chris Gazdik: that? We don’t even know we have them. So it’s a blind spot. It’s a blind spot.
You have developed a belief, a perception about the world, a person, a group of people, racism, or politics, or science. Let me
John-Nelson Pope: give you an example. You go first. Physically. Our eyes, we have where the optic nerve connects to the retina, we have a spot where you can’t see. It’s called a blind spot. What the brain does is it fills in what it thinks.
And so it’s really more actually it’s X and so it’s not real. It’s there. You think it’s real. Yes, I do think it’s real. Okay. And you think it’s real. Otherwise, you’re not going to be able to operate because you’re going to have this big circle of [00:35:00] blindness is black in your field of
Chris Gazdik: vision, field of vision, your physical field,
John-Nelson Pope: but we fill it in.
It’s not
Chris Gazdik: there, right? And this is what implicit bias is. It’s a perfect explanation, John, because you will experience things in your life and you don’t even know that they’re formulating foundational beliefs, like fundamental understandings, you know, about roles of gender or driving So the
John-Nelson Pope: program is, is flawed.
Chris Gazdik: The programming is flawed. What do you mean?
John-Nelson Pope: Yes. Yeah. So, well, I was just thinking in terms of AI. I’m sorry. But there, they, when they did some early experiments with artificial intelligence, there were the, there was a conversation where they would add one of the, the, the characters that was an artificial intelligence [00:36:00] would then urge the person to commit suicide.
Okay. Okay. And it’s because it has the bias of the pro the people that programmed it in its knowledge. And so it was bent that way. Our
Chris Gazdik: human brains literally do the same thing. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: So in, in grad school, I took a, which most grad schools, you have to take like some type of diversity class, at least for therapy.
And in this diversity class, greatest professor I think I’ve ever had. And They showed us this video this black and white video I may have talked about this before but they showed us this black and white video one day. Yeah, you don’t think you have and The camera is like a person so like you’re looking out as if it’s your vision.
Yeah And throughout it goes through this movie and people are mean to this individual They say mean things they do mean things to them But all the while you never [00:37:00] see the actual person because they’re talking, right? Because you’re looking through their eyes. So I remember at the end of this video, our professor turned to us and said, like, who do you think that person is?
Like, and so someone may have said, like, I think it’s a Hispanic person, right? I think it’s a black person. I think it’s a male. I think it’s a female. And I think that’s like a perfect way to explain it because a lot of times. That was a way, and not everybody answered or, I mean, they didn’t make us like answer.
Probably should have
Chris Gazdik: wrote it down on a piece of paper and just,
Victoria Pendergrass: you know. Right, yeah, but the point was is that it makes you realize the type of biases you have without even realizing it. Because everybody, even if you didn’t think it out loud or say it out loud, even I did. Like I was creating a person of who I thought.
They were talking to. That’s what our brains do. And the point of it was to help realize, like, so that you can address it.
Chris Gazdik: That’s where we’re going. And I’m going [00:38:00] to maintain to you, and this is a really important part. Point rather, insofar as how do you repair past false beliefs? So listen up, okay? You’re hearing us talk about these past false beliefs and they’re a big part of your life.
If you want to manage these false belief systems that hopefully we’ve somewhat convinced you that you have, then one of the things that you’ve got to make a contract or a construct with yourself about is that you need to actively challenge these beliefs actively, because if you are passive with this, meaning you do not challenge the beliefs that you have, then these implicit biases, these beliefs that you have will stay permanent in your thinking.
That’s just, and
John-Nelson Pope: I think I, I, on a macro level, that’s what I was saying about how. You could see somebody that’s even older that [00:39:00] was my age at the time go from where they were being discriminatory, discriminatory to people that would be more accepted, not perfect, but would be more accepting of people of a different color, different race.
Sure. And so, but that’s an active challenging that has to go on that dialogue
Chris Gazdik: internally is the big point here, like it starts with an each individual person. That’s the way that we make, you know, change. And I don’t even want to focus on societal changes. That’s not what we’re talking about. We’re just literally talking about your life.
For me, it’s whether or not I’m going to dance in public or not. Fundamental belief structures for a lot of years. I really didn’t even realize that event was that much in my mind. You
John-Nelson Pope: did the Elaine Bennis dance that’s from Seinfeld. Does that ring a bell to your. Generation X. She was, it
Chris Gazdik: should [00:40:00] dance.
Dance. I love Seinfeld. . It was horrible. Her dance. It was a horrible dance.
John-Nelson Pope: I don’t know. Neil, if you remember well, you . Yeah, it was, it was executable, ex. Okay. Her and excruciating to see
Chris Gazdik: her. I do feel like I remember what did she do? Cause I’m going to match
John-Nelson Pope: this a little kick and all of that and embarrassed everybody and people would, and it went on video or something like that.
Everybody down the street, like
Chris Gazdik: this, you know, I got to tell you something that’s funny that’s occurring to me as we’re talking. As I was a little kid, it, you know what I would do for Dan, my family. No, they would like make me do it because it was funny to them. I guess I didn’t know I was just a little kid.
Maybe this is really where my dancing stuff started. You know what I would do as a kid dancing, I would literally just stand up and just sort of go up and down. Is that how you’re trying to do that? Not jumping. Just literally just. Just, just, that’s all I, that’s all I had. I just, I don’t
John-Nelson Pope: think [00:41:00] you, now there are some truths, and that is you have no rhythm.
Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: me? I do not have any rhythm, brother. I know this. I was in the high school band, and I sucked at the rhythm thing. Oh, that excites me. No, I’m just kidding. Oh, marching. Marching. Oh, yeah. So, so let’s, let’s just focus for a moment and then we want to talk about how we actively do some of this stuff and whatever, what we mean and how you guys see the idea of being active.
Rather than passive and how you see people doing that in your offices because that’s such a large factor It’s such a big deal if you’re going to get into doing this with yourself just at home, right? So, how do you see people actively doing this? Do you trigger this? Do you think thought about this like it’s CBT if you will one
Victoria Pendergrass: regularly coming to therapy
To I think just being open to actually like changing it so [00:42:00] Daily reflection, self reflections, being self aware, things like that. I mean, you can’t just sit and expect it to change.
Chris Gazdik: Right, that’s what I’m getting at. How do you see people doing this? Or do you see people doing this in our offices? And it is, it is an active role.
Yeah, I mean,
Victoria Pendergrass: heck, that’s probably most of the time, like, Why they continue to come back is because they feel that it helps, right? Or they notice a change in, you know, in the week or two weeks or months since they’ve been with us. And so they want to keep going,
Chris Gazdik: right? John, you have thoughts about, well,
John-Nelson Pope: I’m, I’m going back to my own traumatic childhood or or high school.
I wanted to go out with this girl, and she was beautiful. She was just such a goddess. I mean, absolutely delightful. And here I was kind of a little hefty
Chris Gazdik: husky. You should have seen this girl on the dance floor, John.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah, she was, I saw her on the dance floor, all that. And I I was [00:43:00] afraid to ask her out and I just, I would go around and I’d get real embarrassed at all that.
I went to my guidance counselor, Mr. Jay Calkins and and he met with me over when guidance counselors actually did guidance and all of that. And he said, Hey, John Nelson, what you got to do is grab the bull by the horns and and that was an innocent remark back in those days. Right. And, and he said, you just have to, and if you don’t succeed the first time, you got to try it again and do it.
And if, if she doesn’t go out with you, go out with another girl. And he said, you can do
Chris Gazdik: it. He gave me some courage when he gave me a kick in the butt and sent you out there,
John-Nelson Pope: right? Yeah. And I know that’s, that’s old fashioned, but it’s, I think it was very helpful for me. It was
Victoria Pendergrass: very active rather than being passive.
Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: it was very active. And you know, what’s, what’s occurring to me, right. It was very active from a, from a person who made an investment external from yourself. [00:44:00] Good therapist, which is maybe what you were trying to say, Victoria, you know, people come back, they’re engaging or a good pastor or a good friend support system, a support system.
Somebody can support you in doing this. So,
John-Nelson Pope: so we changed that negative implicit bias into something that would be a positive belief in myself.
Chris Gazdik: Right? I love that. Say that again. It turned a negative self bias, a negative self implicit bias into a positive
John-Nelson Pope: belief about yourself. And it was a bias too, to a certain extent, because it was a positive bias.
We have those. And
Chris Gazdik: a positive stance. And in some ways we call that naive.
John-Nelson Pope: Well, I’ve been accused of that.
Chris Gazdik: I have as well, I used to be very naive. Mm-Hmm. very naive. Particularly as a young man. Right. So, so we need to just be aware, I mean, you know, we spent a lot of time on this because it’s such a big part of, you know, and we transition to how do we [00:45:00] do this stuff, but, but it, it has to be active.
It cannot be passive, right? You cannot believe that this is something that, okay, maybe I have a false belief action and it’ll just change on its own. Through different new positive life experiences. It just doesn’t work that way. Once something gets embedded into your subconsciousness, into your foundational, fundamental, and cognitive behavioral therapy, we call it core belief system.
Mm hmm. It’s there
John-Nelson Pope: that’s in your neuronal pathways between the neurons, the synapses, and part of that you can’t totally erase it. And so is that what you’re saying is some of the negative things, but you can try to overwhelm it and cause some sort of extinction of, of the negative behaviors where you will go.
A different way,
Chris Gazdik: for instance, I can now believe that I can do my little dance and I am [00:46:00] fine. Don’t dance. I got a happy dance move and I’m okay. I’ll never forget what Matt said to me, but I’m comfortable now being able to kind of until of course, Victoria gives me a snicker snare. Did you see that on YouTube people?
Did you see the facial expression she gave me on YouTube? What was it? I saw it out of the corner of my eye John. She’s her name is Matt center up to this. Anyway, let’s move on I’m just being a little bit silly. You did have a little snicker though. Victoria is victorious She is she okay So, what do we do to do this work actively?
You know, how do we really trigger this to occur? What are some of the things that we need to do, either with ourselves or with other people? And I’ll make it easy for our clinical brains. Think of trauma, trauma work. What do we do to kind of help with that?
Victoria Pendergrass: You go back in the past. You figure out the timeline.
You figure out, you try to figure out when it started. You do a narrative. Yeah, [00:47:00] a narrative basically.
John-Nelson Pope: And so basically what you do is you recount the, the incident that was the, the trauma for a lot of the folks that I’ve worked with, it’s to, to tell the story of, let’s say why they were in the explosion, why they were what happened at that time, what were you feeling, what were you thinking, what was going on describe that.
And then at that point yeah. This is part of narrative therapy. It is. Yeah, it’s to rewrite the story and to reinterpret it,
Chris Gazdik: you know, it’s funny So you’re
Victoria Pendergrass: not there’s changing facts
Chris Gazdik: So no, you can’t change the facts, but you change the view the opinion and the parts that are what you experienced, right?
Yes, actually can but you know I was just listening to you and it occurred to me in a natural flow John like, you know I’m listening to you. And of course we all know narrative therapy. I knew that would be easy for us to go down the track
of like, well, you do this and then this and this and this. And it’s, you know, particularly with trauma, but you know, a [00:48:00] story is so powerful that before we had essentially the written word, didn’t generations of people know and understand Their entire culture through the stories that people would share from generation to generation to generation.
The story is that powerful.
John-Nelson Pope: The pre literate, I mean the pre literate societies, they would use a lot of repetition. Right. They would have choruses that would respond. Song. Song. And to be able, and of course by singing. You do remember a lot easier, right? So, and it enables that. So the idea is, is that there’s a recapitulation and sometimes it seems like it goes back in circles, but actually it’s moving the story forward and you do that.
So, I mean, that’s so. I’m sorry, I didn’t
Chris Gazdik: mean to go off on that. No, you went with it, absolutely, because it just occurred to me, [00:49:00] that’s how, it’s amazing how, you know, how we, how we can remember things, and you know, we all, we all have those family stories about, you know, the crazy Aunt Mary, or, you know, and you get together, we just got done with the holidays, families get together and say, Hey, do you remember when you came home that first time, or, you know, you remember when, Mom, do you remember when you cooked that lasagna and it burnt to a crisp, and we had to go to Papa John’s Pizza for Thanksgiving, you know?
All those things, those are, those are our stories.
John-Nelson Pope: You do this also with grief counseling, I think, as well. Viktor Frankl the, the psychiatrist, the Austrian psychiatrist developed existential therapy, which is called logotherapy. And it’s basically people reinterpreting the horrible events that happened to him, not, not changing the facts, but changing how they, they viewed it to give them purpose and meaning in life.
Chris Gazdik: Now, let me kind of say, particularly in the trauma world, we’ve talked [00:50:00] about this on. So, you know, you might be daunted. You might be feeling overwhelmed listening to this and that’s understandable because it’s not just one story. It’s like story after story or traumatic event after traumatic event after traumatic event.
Let me give you some solace in that reality. Yeah, Victoria, you started us out right in the starting spot with the timeline. You go back in history, like what happened? What’s the timeline? If you deal with the first Or the worst, it plays out to all the rest. Mm hmm. How cool is that reality? Let me say that again.
For sure. So what you need to think about is the worst thing that you experienced, or the first thing that you experienced, and look at that, reframe that, work with those thoughts, wonder and be curious about what I have developed as a belief from that, see if I want to keep that belief or change that belief.
When you do that work on the first or the worst, it goes to all the rest. There you go. Right. How cool is [00:51:00] that? That’s empowering. You know, that’s, that’s encouraging. That’s, you know, you can, you
John-Nelson Pope: can create a vision of of a giant wheel with gears within gears and you change, you change it. And it, the gear goes into a different mode and it changes the whole the whole clock,
Chris Gazdik: whole clock, the whole rhythm.
The whole rhythm, the whole Changes the time. Yeah, and, and don’t we see that in therapy? Some of the amazing things that happen when people, like, Dude, when lights turn on, Mm hmm. And people fi When we figured out that she wasn’t alone, And that there were people that wanted to help her save her life, Wow, how cool is that?
Lightbulb. How cool is that? Because that plays out today, y’all. That plays out in life right here and now, and, and that’s why we encourage you to look at these beliefs and don’t do this alone and kind of, you know, go through this [00:52:00] process as scary as it might feel in the front end, it changes past
John-Nelson Pope: false.
So it’s bad enough that there are people that will do evil and will deliberately bind you and keep you down. But it’s a tragedy. More of a tragedy in a sense that once you have been freed of that evil, you still carry that
Chris Gazdik: the remnants, the beliefs that yeah, absolutely. John, you’re, you’re, you’re right.
And something as, as, as traumatic as, as, as. You know, special operators in the military, event after event, after event, after event, or somebody who comes
from a substance abuse, you know, family system, which is an event after an event, after an event, I oftentimes use the police officers almost, I’m not going to say almost, I’m going to make the bold statement to a man and a woman in the force.
They have traumatic realities in its event after event, after event, I haven’t
John-Nelson Pope: met. An officer and this is, this is people that [00:53:00] has not been traumatized or, or a fire
Chris Gazdik: person. To a man and a woman. Yeah. Yeah. Other. I’m going to say that other first responders don’t, you know, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve carried the belief John that police officers have it worse for better or worse.
You mean
John-Nelson Pope: by getting brain tissue off their shoes after
Chris Gazdik: somebody, you know, shot themselves. It just doesn’t stop for them and they never get to turn it off. I mean, when I, when I go home, I know I’m not going to be in an ambulance. As a first responder in an EMS system, you know, but when I’m home as a police officer people know where I live I can’t you can’t just turn this off.
It’s it’s a you’re like always an officer. This is kind of what I mean by that So but yeah, you know, it’s all first responders are to a man and a woman Affected for it for sure be be kind to your first Responders, everybody. So, okay, [00:54:00] we’re winding into, we want to make sure that we spend enough time a little bit on like, okay, so what do we do?
So how does this start? Let’s get back to that. Victoria, you’re talking about going back in the past, kind of looking at con lines and getting into your story. Story is a big, big Factor. We talked about being aware of in the first place that you’ll probably have those make that assumption. Can I make that point strong enough?
Got to make the assumption that you have past false beliefs. Still a little hard to say. Past false beliefs make that assumption and then begin to critically examine those those beliefs. You’re talking about intentionality Intentionality purposefulness activeness. Yes purpose driven life. You’ve heard of that Yeah, yeah, it’s a it’s on point And so anything else come to mind I mean, you know getting into the nitty gritty on you know, what people do, you [00:55:00] know That’s helpful.
I’m gonna make the point don’t do this alone
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, you sure I was just talking to someone about this today is like you have a support system for a reason Freaking use it right like your friends and family and whoever else is in your support system But they’re there for a reason like
Chris Gazdik: and that’s not just for trauma guys.
That’s like, you know, you have a everyday basic life when you’ve been rejected by the guy that you’re trying to hit on like That don’t be alone with that.
John-Nelson Pope: Be like a bridge over troubled water.
Chris Gazdik: I love that song. Is that a song? Yeah, it has like a
John-Nelson Pope: bridge over troubled water. There you go. You’re going to be, you’re going to be there.
That that’s the other thing is, is that we all have events in our lives where we need somebody to, to, to be with and someone to care someone that and if you’re not getting that in your present environment. You need to be able to [00:56:00] reach out. And, and just take that leap. Can, can I ask one, one more thing and that, that is, we use our phones, we use our computers and all of that.
Right. But you can’t hug a computer, you can’t hug a webcam. Right. Even though. Neil, you do a great job making it real. The thing is, you can’t do that. You have to have somebody. I like what you’re getting at. And everybody has the opportunity to have somebody. I know that there’s the, maybe the exceptions that
Chris Gazdik: aren’t there.
Don’t be alone.
Victoria Pendergrass: Physically as much as emotionally. An effective hug is supposed to be like 20 seconds long at the least. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Like for a, for a hug to actually like Chemically help your body what it’s supposed to do. I think it’s something like 20 seconds or something like that. I’ve never heard that before.
Like there’s this new movie that’s comes out, is coming out. I can’t crap a camera what it’s called, but it’s about birds migrating or something like
[00:57:00] that. And in one of the trailers, one of the birds hugs another bird and he’s like are you feeling better yet? And the guy, and he’s something like, no, I’m not.
And he’s like, that’s because it hasn’t kicked in yet or whatever. And like, so we can’t keep hugging him until like, yeah, until you’re endorphins are released. We’re
John-Nelson Pope: sensory creatures. And so the endorphins need to kick in and be a part of the physical. I
Victoria Pendergrass: mean, sometimes I look at, my husband can attest to this, sometimes I look at him and I’m like, Babe, I just need a hug.
Yeah. And he’ll just like stand there and hug me for however long I need. And then I’m like, okay, I’m
Chris Gazdik: good. And then you go along your way. Yeah. And I, and I think it’s cool that, you know, we have 988 nowadays and you know, you can text 988. And we do have video cams and you know, we do have virtual sessions that we even do with.
therapy. You know, we, the pandemic has brought on an onslaught of that. I’m concerned that that’s the the more common theme because it’s not best practice, but there’s, there’s, there’s something about face to [00:58:00] face in the person. John, I think you’re absolutely on point, you know, physically with, with that.
Another couple of things to think about also along those lines in your environment, we haven’t really said it yet, but you gotta be careful about an ongoing chronic negative environment too.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, my mom always grew up, my mom always told me, you know, you are who you hang around.
Chris Gazdik: Right. And that’s it, that you know, you’re, you’re the product of the five closest relationships that you have.
Or something. Yeah. I mean, that’s an important, that’s an important thing. And we do live in echo chambers nowadays, y’all. I mean, you’re out there listening to things that only agree with you. Oh, you listen to it’s
Victoria Pendergrass: just like my tech talk algorithm algorithm is geared towards things that I agree with because of things that videos I’ve liked things that I’ve posted myself like danger.
Yeah. Yeah. And so then it’s like, well.
Chris Gazdik: Learn something new, look at something different. Yeah, if
John-Nelson Pope: I, if I, if I’m looking for something [00:59:00] for to do some research on things that I’ll end up getting a lot of those ads and things like that. You
Chris Gazdik: will. They’ll be very tracking you and they’re watching you, John.
All right. What do we need to get before we’re out of time? Do, is there anything that we kind of missed that is an important part of really being able to actively do this stuff
Victoria Pendergrass: about mindset? I can talk about that growth mindset versus a fixed mindset. Okay. Well, it’s just what I teach. And my therapy actually, I’ve mentioned it today for those of you who saw me today.
But so a growth mindset are not a fixed mindset. I think about being like in concrete, wet concrete, you can’t go anywhere. You’re fixated where you’re at. You’re stuck. I suck at math. So I’m always going to suck at math. There’s just nothing I can do about it. Okay. Whereas a growth mindset is the mindset that you have, that you can move forward, that you can grow, that you can.
Do something. Okay, I suck at math. That means I need [01:00:00] to Find a tutor and I need to study twice as hard for my upcoming math test So that I can pass it love that and like I think when you have that growth mindset of like, okay I can actually do this and I might have to put in a little extra work I might have to find you to put way find a different way add more support
John-Nelson Pope: people Segmented off a little bit so I do one step at a time spread it
Victoria Pendergrass: out Timers, whatever it is that I need, but I can do it.
And so like, I think when you have that mindset, it definitely makes it easier rather than like the fixed where you’re just stuck and you’re like, I suck at math. So I’m always going to suck at math and there’s nothing I can ever do to
John-Nelson Pope: get better at math. I want to, I want to share something. I was traumatized in the 10th grade because all this stuff happened to me in the 10th grade.
I had a math teacher who I got up and I froze up on the board and I was doing it was geometry and doing angles and things like that. And she said, you are [01:01:00] stupid. And I carried that with me all the rest of my time. Right?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. And then
John-Nelson Pope: when I got into, and I took statistics, I called it sadistics because I’d already had that mindset.
I would agree. And. An undergraduate and I said, well, I’m just going to pass to get the, to get the grade. Yeah. When I had to find out that I had to take five research courses. And for my doctorate, and guess what I had to take was, I was convinced I couldn’t do it. Then I had this one, one professor and he, he was, he believed in me.
And. I made
Chris Gazdik: all the difference
John-Nelson Pope: in the world. I’ve taught, I’ve taught statistics now. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Now you’re a professor of
Victoria Pendergrass: statistics. Full circle,
Chris Gazdik: full circle. Yeah. No, I love that. Thank you for sharing that, John. I feel like
Victoria Pendergrass: I’ve been triggering you tonight. Sushi, math.
John-Nelson Pope: No, but you see, you did a good thing. I just put a little [01:02:00] umph to it.
No, I put a real life
Victoria Pendergrass: example. Yeah, we appreciate it.
Chris Gazdik: I’m just making fun of you, John. May you
John-Nelson Pope: live long as I have. And
Chris Gazdik: prosper. And prosper. And as you’re able to live long and prosper, then you have more and more opportunity to continue doing this. Listen, you have beliefs that have been harming you or, and helping you, but you want to examine and know and connect and actively, purposely discover what it is that you actually believe as it relates to what you’ve experienced.
This is a part of your life. And it’s a part of your life that you can do something about, whether it be vis a vis through trauma or the, through typical everyday events, you have an awesome opportunity the longer that you’re with us on this earth to really examine and change, actively repair past false beliefs.
So stay with us on this journey and experience the pleasure that it is. When you really do get [01:03:00] those ah ha moments with your friends, or at home, or in your own thought, or writing. Or in, of course, therapy. Alright guys, have a good week. Be well, stay well, and we’ll see you soon. Be positive. Bye y’all.