Join us in Episode 265 “Alone in Plain Sight,” where Ben Higgins, known from Season 20 of “The Bachelor,” shares his insights as a guest. From his experiences since the show, Ben explores the complexities of loneliness, social media’s impact on connection, and the path to genuine human connection. Drawing from his book “Alone In Plain Sight,” Ben offers actionable steps to reconnect with oneself, others, romance, and spirituality. Through personal anecdotes and thought-provoking conversations, we invite listeners to explore the depths of human connection and find hope in the midst of isolation.
Tune in to see Alone in Plain Sight Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- How many times have you felt alone … even in Plain Sight of and with others?
- Social media does this help us / how can it actually make us feel more alone?
- How do we get connected to others?
Links referenced during the show:
Episode #49 – Loneliness Has Become an Epidemic
Do People Know How to Be Friends? – Ep197
Stop Numbing and Start Living – Ep194
Episode #35 – Does Social Media and Cell Phones affect Mental Health?
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/personalstories
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
Audio Podcast Version Only
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Episode #265 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Through a Therapist’s Eyes, and we are at episode 265. And I’m looking and staring at my clock and date so I won’t mess it up. Victoria, have confidence with me, right?
Victoria Pendergrass: I do, I have confidence in you.
Chris Gazdik: She usually corrects me when I screw the date, March the 14th at 6:22 PM We are gonna be talking about a loan in Plain Sight, and we are honored to have Ben Higgins hanging out with us from season 20.
But I want you to think about this scenario right off the get go in the opening. And it was, it, it, it was an experience that. I personally had that, I think, just launches exactly what it is that we’re talking about today. And, and it was in what we call junior high school when I switched off to go [00:01:00] from a private Catholic school and to Tredelphia junior high school.
And it was such a, I mean, I remember it like yesterday as a, as a, a pivotal experience almost in life because it was so freaking weird. Now imagine a whatever 14, 15 year old young man getting on a school bus and because I was going to a different school that I hadn’t been to for five, six years and all these kids knew each other because they were in the public school system.
I didn’t know anybody on the bus and we get off the bus not having any idea where to go. There’s a teacher and you see they’re just pointing to go to, you know, the left. And so the kids all heard off the bus and I walked down the path. It’s an early morning as school is those days, a little bit chilly in the air.
And we’re being funneled down to a big black top [00:02:00] basketball court. And I just looked down on top of the hill at this court at the mass of humanity that was there, not knowing anybody. So I sat down, just wanting to sit, observe, and wait, only to have one of the teachers push me along saying, Oh, no, no, you can’t.
And so I went down the hill, and I literally walked around this basketball court full of kids, not knowing anybody. I don’t know how I didn’t just bawl my eyes out, but feeling the way that I felt so lost. Literally walking amongst all these kids not having, at that point in my life, the skills to strike up a conversation or to join one of the groups and listen to what they were saying.
None of those skills were there, and I mean to tell you reading [00:03:00] a little bit of Ben’s book alone in plain sight brought me to that very, very painful moment. So three questions I want you to think about as we go through this show. How many times have you felt alone, truly and painfully alone, even in plain sight and with others?
Social media, does this help us and how does this actually make us feel alone? And how do we get connected to others? We’re gonna talk a lot about how do we really get connected to others tonight. So this is through therapist eyes. You can subscribe, click for the bell, your job is to help us out finding likes and all that kind of stuff, five stars.
Contact through a therapist’s eyes is the way that we engage you with our emails. Guys, this is the human emotional experience which we endeavor to figure out together, that’s what we say because we mean it. Victoria, you have a point. You always like to make sure we cover in the, in the intro. What is that?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yes. This is not to deliver any therapy services at all.
Chris Gazdik: Figured, figured I’d let you help me with [00:04:00] that. Ben, can you start off by telling us about Miss B’s class? Because I felt like we were connected together. You didn’t even know it, but that was my story. With junior high and I thought of that as I was reading your experience in Miss B’s class.
Ben Higgins: Yeah, definitely. Well, I am excited to be here and I’m glad to talk to you all. You know, the interesting thing happened when I did alone in plain sight when I wrote the book was kind of reliving some of these moments that I think were transformational. And who I am as an adult. And as you kind of pull this back and then you start to speak to people who maybe have read the book everybody has a moment as a child that kind of stands out to them as that pivotal moment, good, bad, indifferent, that, you know, people pull back these memories.
And for me. The reason why I think I wrote the book was because at some point in my life, I did understand that I was not that I was alone or that I felt alone and that was from this class. So I was in the 2nd grade [00:05:00] was reading class and we did partner reading that day. Now, remember just to know I’m an only child.
And so I grew up, you know, with the loving embrace of a family you know, no, never knowing what it feels like to be an outsider. And it was partner reading day and I was the one that was not chosen in class. I vividly remember this
moment. We’re in a big pit and then I was the one sitting off to the side and the teacher came up to me then and said, hey it’s your lucky day.
You get to be my partner, but I knew exactly what that meant. I knew that there’s nobody in the class that thought Saw me as their closest friend, the friend they wanted to, to reach out to, to spend that hour with or 30 minutes or with or whatever. And it was the 1st time I really had felt that, that moment of rejection, but also the, the, the simple truth that may be my reality of thinking, hey, everybody in this class is my best friend and they’re going to just, I’m not going to have any problem.
You know, that became false, but it also was one of the best moments in my life because it helped me relate with [00:06:00] so many others who I think especially in today’s world who do feel like an outsider who do who do feel pushed aside. By society or maybe pushed aside by their friends, groups or families or their workplaces.
And so that’s really why I wrote the book was based off of that little story was saying, Hey, I know what it feels like, and it’s not a good feeling. And I want to try to speak into that a little bit. So powerful,
Chris Gazdik: powerful experiences that we have in our lives that honestly, as a therapist, I can tell you just stick with us.
through our lives. We can revisit those moments. Absolutely. So let me give you a proper introduction, Ben. This is this is season 20. I looked it up, man. 2019. Yep. Season 20 of on the bachelor show on ABC. But I understand you’re from Winona Lake. Read about the bridge. We’ll, we’ll maybe hopefully get to that.
That, I gotta say, that bridge sounds scary as all get out up in your own town, bro.
Intro: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Holy cow. Since the show, Ben has been [00:07:00] really busy. I mean, seriously busy in 2020, He’s founded Generation Generous International it’s a company dedicated to contributing profits to socialists around the world.
Has something to do with a cup of coffee look it up buy a cup of coffee I heart media podcast almost famous and I think that’s the one where you kind of just Work with ashley and kind of talk about bachelor stuff. Is that is that a fair statement? Yeah, it’s a very fair statement eight years
Ben Higgins: going
Chris Gazdik: 8 years gone.
Dang. That’s crazy, right? 2021, I gotta tell you, a lot of times I read books and I have authors, fellow authors from Morgan James and other shows with the Alone in Plain Sight. Like, guys, this is a reader. This is one that you really do want to catch. Captures a really genuine experience from a person such as Ben.
And I’ll leave some of that as a mystery, you know, focusing on this issue that we all feel as our fellow panelists, John Pope said we live in an age of anxiety [00:08:00] and the age of loneliness as a pandemic. So, you know, this really does a good job of hitting that. And then you’ve got another podcast, Hope Still Wins.
How did I do? What did I miss? And what is the Hope Still Wins podcast? Cause that’s the one that catches my eye a little bit, man.
Ben Higgins: Yeah, so I mean, you know, life, life is fun. Life is wild. We also got a bunch of restaurants out here in Denver and New Orleans. So if you’re ever in those areas, I always love for people to go and visit the restaurants.
It’s the Culinary Creative Group and Generous Coffee is my full time gig. It’s a job I don’t get paid from a hundred percent of the profits are donated to nonprofits. And so it’s a passion project and we are a coffee company. So if you drink coffee, I would love for you to go check out generous. It’s been incredible.
And so the the hope still wins podcast is a podcast that was launched during COVID and it was really. To highlight stories of humans who have done something either their leaders in their own [00:09:00] space, or they’re in ministry maybe they’re authors, maybe they’re just a really good neighbor of mine or my parents who have a story to tell because one thing I realized was after the show, you know, then I was asked to go and speak at places or asked to go and attend places and, you know they were only doing it because of this reality television show.
And so what I wanted to make a, a place, what I wanted to make space in my life for was to highlight the stories of humans, because I think everybody has a story to tell and hope still wins was really that place. That’s really awesome.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. And that’s a genuine reality for you. It shows, I appreciate the work that you’ve, you’ve done with that.
Victoria, do you got one of these lonely moments? I think you said you were going to think about that.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. And I think mine more kind of comes like later on in life. And I remember like when you brought up this topic, it made me think about after I had just given birth to my awesome, almost two [00:10:00] year old now.
And it’s so. You’re like family friends, you know, all these people, but like, there were moments when I was like, I feel like I’m in this alone and I feel like there’s nobody here with me, even though I’m like, Literally surrounded by people.
Ben Higgins: It’s interesting, you know, 56 percent it’s got to be higher today because it was trending up and this was a study done in 2019.
So it’s been, it’s pretty old study at this point, but 56 percent of people were admitting to a deep seated feeling of loneliness at some point in their life. And it’s it’s a very high percent of that that was kind of an just an underlying way lifestyle, like, always kind of feeling like outsiders always kind of feeling alone, always kind of feeling misplaced.
And, you know, so it’s, it’s a, it’s very common for somebody to have a feel a story that they say, yeah, this is when I felt alone. But I also think it’s, it’s really exciting when [00:11:00] people can say, hey, I haven’t had that feeling because those are the people, you know, who can maybe teach us all a thing or 2 who have and speak in some, some ways of how they’ve navigated life without that.
It could be a personality trait. It also just could be the way we’ve, you know, the, the lack of pains that we’ve lived life within. But it’s interesting that 56 percent of people have admitted to it because by default, you know, my theory is if you feel alone, there’s somebody close to you that’s also felt alone, which means that your pain at your shared pains actually connect you, which means you’re not alone at all.
And so. Valid feeling. I get it. It’s not a, it’s not a feeling. I want to push away from somebody and say, hey, you shouldn’t feel this way. It’s not how that works. But it is true that, you know, you’re not alone when you feel alone because a lot of other people are struggling with it. Also,
Chris Gazdik: you know, it’s funny.
I was, we start out with definitions. A lot of times when we talk about these different topics, whether it’s codependency or bipolar or, you know, different things with assertiveness. Like, what are we [00:12:00] talking about? Listen to this definition, right? When one perceives a gap between one’s desires for social connection and actual experiences of it.
So I was, I was listening to you, Ben. I was like, Oh my gosh, he must be setting me up for this because, you know, you, you talk about a feeling, a perception, a way that people are experiencing this. That’s really what gets at wrong with this.
Ben Higgins: Well, yeah, I mean, I think it’s, you know, it’s definitely, it’s hard to live life with a boisterous joy or peace when this kind of underlying tone of loneliness is, is, you know, kind of haunting you and it pops up at random times.
There can be moments where that goes away. You can feel great 1 night and wake up the next day and walk into a scenario. Maybe it’s at the workplace. Maybe it’s at a church. Maybe it’s at your school. Maybe it’s. You know, just going to the mall and all of a sudden you just feel like you’re the outsider, like the kid looking through the window at the party.
He wasn’t invited to like, you don’t fit in. Like there’s something different, something wrong with you. And [00:13:00] that comes up at random times. And sometimes it’s hard to definitely pinpoint what it was the cause. But yes, I do think it’s, it’s a, it’s a part of our being. But I do believe there’s tools.
And some truths to help combat that, that you can speak into yourself and live by once those feelings kind of arise. And it’s a powerful
Chris Gazdik: reality. I mean, it, it, it really affects us physically, breaks our bodies down. We can get into talking about that tonight, but when we’re, when we’re talking about the age of anxiety and this experience, this profound loneliness that people are really struggling with, it really has become
Intro: much
Chris Gazdik: more prolifically experienced, if not, you know.
I
Ben Higgins: lost Chris.
Intro: Oh, Chris.
Chris Gazdik: Did I come back? Yeah. Enemy number one towards [00:14:00] depression is isolation. You know, you have an isolation effect in your life, and it just makes depression like, way ten times horrible. So, it has real impacts in people’s lives.
Ben Higgins: Physically, it’s equal to smoking 15 cigarettes a day is what the study ended up kind of you said that too.
So I
Chris Gazdik: said that before. How is that even possible? That blows my brain apart. Where’s that? Yeah.
Ben Higgins: University of Michigan and the University of Harvard came out with a study. And said that it’s equal to smoking 15 cigarettes a day on your body because I mean, I think we can show over time and you all know this better than me, but stress and anxiety living in a constant place of both those things.
Loneliness, you know, can kind of maybe thrown in that same bucket. Like, it does it, it, it shortens life spans. There’s something biological that it kind of changes in you people that, you know, are living in a place [00:15:00] of joy and peace oftentimes you know, maybe live a little longer. They don’t show the side effects of aging as bad.
And so, you know, it is it’s hard on the body. It’s hard on the mind. And I also think when you’re living in these places, it’s hard on the connection. It’s hard on your connection to yourself to others. To relationships to, you know, to God, it’s when you’re always feeling like an outsider, I think it, it kind of transfers over to all of those categories and a life without connection is a life that oftentimes.
You know, can beat you up a little bit, both physically, emotionally, spiritually, and mentally. It’s a lot of
Chris Gazdik: cigarettes, brother. Yeah, it is. Now, now, Victoria knows that we don’t really prepare a lot on this show. It’s a genuine conversation. So I wanted the audience to know that I had prepared this with Ben.
This is just genuine. Because I want to really normalize. the reality of what it is that we feel. I mean, I think we’ve started to accomplish that a little bit, you know, but people really feel like they’re the only ones that feel this way. Like [00:16:00] that experience with Tridelphia Junior High School for me, or
Victoria, your experience when you’re, you know, given birth and having all these people running around.
It’s like, you know, we can be alone in plain sight. That’s why I loved your, your, your, Title to your book truly to normalize this, Ben, I mean, you’re borderline, I mean, you’re, you’re a pretty strong influencer, you’re a strong content creator and whatnot, right? Like, how many posts and how many likes and how many whatevers you got, you know, people would be amazed at, right?
Is it possible that even you could still, in that status of mind, or in that state of reality, still today feel lonely? Oh, definitely. Yeah, amazing. Because I bet people were like, I don’t believe it. Oh,
Ben Higgins: I think they do. I don’t know. That’s not usually reaction that nowadays. I think most people who have a following or have lived in the social media world or you know, we can be more connected than ever.
I think maybe 10 years ago, they’d be like, there’s no [00:17:00] way that doesn’t make sense. But I think nowadays enough people have felt this, seen this, experienced it, that they go, I get it. I haven’t met many who would say there’s no way that’s, you know, that you’ve got to be getting, you know, I think it’d be shocking for me to meet somebody said, Hey, you gotta be getting your fulfillment from all the, you know, robots that follow you on social media, or you gotta be getting your fulfillment from your moments on television or from whatever.
Like, I, I, I think most people now would be like, yeah, that, that sounds like it wouldn’t fulfill. It might be great. They’re great things. They’re good in their, in their own right when used appropriately and correctly. And, and when you view it through the right lens they’re great opportunities. I never want to say they’re not, but I think most people today have a fairly rich view of what fulfillment looks like.
And I don’t think they’re thinking that comes from social media. It’s one of the messages I like to tell teenagers and people who are really kind of in this. Hey, I want to [00:18:00] become an influencer. I want to, you know, get paid to post about stuff. And I want, you know, the satisfaction of looking on my phone and seeing, you know, a million people following me when I go to a high school of 2000 and all that I still believe young people think that will do something for them that will make them feel whole.
The, the, the sad, but really hard truth that people find out at some point in their life. Is that it does it and then they move on from that to to find fulfillment other
places. And that’s that is where I’m really interested in intrigued with the human experiences. What does it look like when you’re on the search for fulfillment and the search for wholeness and the search for.
The good things of life. Like, are you, you know, we’ve all, I mean, at least personally, I’ve gone through that process. I’ve done it in some terrible ways, made some terrible decisions, you know, picked and choose how, where, where I thought I wanted my fulfillment from. And it took a long time to kind of find a place that said that I felt, no, this is, this is [00:19:00] where I’m meant to be.
This is what makes me whole. And it definitely was not through any type of fame.
Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: I just think, you know, people struggle as much as we’re becoming, you know, aware. I think I want to push back a little bit that the keeping up with the Jones’s reality and looking at all the posts and then looking at the people that we follow and seeing people that have all these people around them.
I think people definitely get a little bit of misperception about that. You know, those people must be fulfilling. Like, for instance, Terry Bradshaw. We’ll talk about sports here in a minute. We’re getting to that, actually. But Terry Bradshaw, I’m a big Pittsburgh Steelers fan, right? And, you know, he’s, he’s five time Super Bowl, four time Super Bowl champion.
The guy’s, you know, he’s arguably famous. He’s on TV all day, and he’ll talk openly and honestly about his, his ADHD and his major experiences with anxiety and how he feels alone in a lot of ways. Still today. And I think that still surprises people a little bit. [00:20:00] Does that make sense?
Ben Higgins: Oh, a hundred percent.
I mean, I, yeah, that’s what I was. My point was, is I don’t think fame and fortune necessarily relate to fulfillment or happiness or joy or contentment. I think those two things are, are definitely the individual human experience. And I think it takes each individual person to kind of dive into what that path looks like.
I mean, You know, you’ve had multiple people from panels of CEOs to you know, championship athletes. Say, hey, that ring didn’t feel like I thought it would, right? I worked my whole life for this moment. Didn’t feel like it’s big.
It’s huge. It’s huge. You’ve had CEOs say, hey, you know what? I’m I’m worth 30Million dollars and they’re still.
You know, thinking about how life hasn’t worked out the way they wanted to, or they’re not happy to happy in whatever period of, you know, they’re in, if it’s or whatever category they’re in. And so I think at this point in time, we should start looking past that. I think we’re going to [00:21:00] all learn that those things said by enough people felt by enough people.
enough people will say, no, there’s something bigger, greater beyond any type of fame and fortune. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: yeah,
Ben Higgins: we’ll have to, if not, if not, we’re going to, we’re going to really struggle.
Chris Gazdik: It’ll implode. Right? No, I totally agree. Well, tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, I am going to tip this a little bit.
I did read a lot of your books. So. So tell me a little bit about yourself. It’s a trick question, isn’t it? The listening audience will know what I mean here in a little bit.
Ben Higgins: Well, I mean,
Chris Gazdik: hopefully you do.
Ben Higgins: Yeah, well, I mean, I think the big, you know, you said a lot of it, right? But I think the big question that I really want to get out in the book at the beginning, you know, it’s the book is broken up into four categories.
Connection with self connection and relationships romance, like romantic relationships, both singleness and you know, being with a partner connection with friendships [00:22:00] and then connection with something greater than ourselves. You know, because of my faith tradition, my belief system, I’ll call that God.
Not everybody would. And so. That’s how the book is broken up for for the reader and really for the connection with self. The big question is, who are you? And that question comes comes about for me, because there’s a lot of labels that have been, you know, placed on me placed on Victoria placed on you, Chris, throughout our lives labels.
Some that we’re really proud of some labels that really make us go. Yeah, I’m getting it. And other labels that really can kind of push us down to a really bad spot. But we can all think of those labels. And so if we strip those labels away, what’s left standing? And, and that’s really the question I dig into in the first part of that book, is what’s left standing if you’re kind of naked and unashamed, if you’re just standing there and saying, this is who I am at my core.
And a lot of times that will become, you know, some, some character attributes, you know, maybe it’s loyalty, maybe you have to be honest with yourself and say, and say, I’m not loyal, [00:23:00] whatever, whatever it may be who are you if, you know, if every, every label that somebody else has placed on you or the world has placed on you has been, you know, tossed aside.
Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: yeah, there’s a lot in there in getting reconnected to yourself and I’ve got some thoughts about the way it was laid out and the way you talk about it, but just on a lighter note, how would you go with like, who has been and and what are what are what are some of the things that you like? What do you like to do?
What are some of the ins and outs of what makes you you? Yeah, you know, like, do you like the Steelers because we’re going to bond instantly if you say I went outside the state and I jumped over a couple couple. No, no,
Ben Higgins: I’m a Colts fan. So I’m a couple Captain Comeback. You know, very, very much a Colts fan always will be from Indiana.
Chris Gazdik: Like WVU, right? Because it’s not in your conference and we can bond on that, right?
Ben Higgins: Is there? Yeah, I mean, at times I’m a big 10 guy. So
Chris Gazdik: Victoria, help me out.
Ben Higgins: Yeah, I don’t stretch too [00:24:00] far outside the big 10. Typically, you would
Victoria Pendergrass: not get any help from me.
Ben Higgins: Yeah, okay, then. Okay. Yeah. What about you
Victoria Pendergrass: over here?
Okay.
Ben Higgins: I can get behind the Panthers. I like a good underdog. I like a good underdog story. I was a big Frank Wright fan Victoria. So that one made me sad. I was really on your bandwagon while he was there. So I was, I was sad about that departure. But the question is, who am I? You know, it changes. It does.
And I have to be okay with that. That’s one of the things that I like to talk about too, that the way you see yourself, the way you understand yourself is going to change. I, I heard it best. From a mentor of mine who said his wife has been married to seven different people. In the course of their marriage, they’d been married 50 years.
I love that. Wait, let me
Chris Gazdik: get that right. She’s saying that you’ve been married 50 years and to seven different people, seven different people,
Ben Higgins: same person. I love that. Yeah, because things change, life happens and it’s one of the beauties, I think, you know, I’ve only [00:25:00] been married for two and a half years, but it’s one of the beauties that I see in marriage is, you know, knowing the human that you married and believing in the human that you married and knowing that human is going to evolve and change over time and being really excited for that and being really pumped up about supporting those changes and, and doing it together now as a couple and kind of having each other’s backs as that goes.
Yeah. But for me you know, 1 of the things that I this changed for me pretty drastically when I took the enneagram. Now, I’m not an enneagram freak. I’m not, I don’t claim to sit up here and tell you all the ins and outs of every number and every level. But I did take the enneagram and I learned a lot about myself through it.
I feel like it was a good tool for me to understand myself a little bit better. I was a, I’m a four and, and one of the things that a four does and is known for is to be very in our own heads as you can say to be, people, people
Chris Gazdik: might not know what an ideogram is. And I actually don’t. So what, what is that?
This is what, it sounds like one of the personality inventories that are out there. [00:26:00] Yeah.
Ben Higgins: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. It’s a
Victoria Pendergrass: big deal. Victoria.
Ben Higgins: Yeah. It’s a big deal. I’m just.
Victoria Pendergrass: You’re.
Ben Higgins: Yeah, you can really learn about the enneagram. It got really big kind of in the church space for a long time because people were using it as a tool to understand their co workers better.
understand their own kind of spiritual pursuits better. You take this test, spits out a number or a couple numbers, two numbers for you, and you kind of read some stuff and I guess the best way to say is you can say, yeah, that I feel like that’s me. I feel like that’s putting words to emotions or feelings that I’ve never been able to put words or feelings to or words to, or you say, no, I don’t really relate with that.
And that’s fine too. But for me, when I took this test and an enneagram 4 popped out it, it really highlighted and lightened up my world because I realized one there, there was at least some type of person out there that understood who I was. I feel like nobody in the world understood me. I feel like I was misunderstood my whole life.
Which is a characteristic of an [00:27:00] Enneagram 4. You feel misunderstood. You’re vo You’re also very analytical. And so you’re over reading into So this is all me. This is how to explain myself. I’m very analytical. I care deeply. I do about conversation about moments of interaction with other humans or moments interactions in group settings.
And I’ll read very far into that. And so I’m analytical. I’m also loyal. I hold loyalty is a really strong value to me. And I, and at times it becomes the best thing about me. And at times it comes the worst thing about me because I hold people to that standard as well. And sometimes it’s an unattainable standard.
So I don’t just say, hey, as a friend, I want you to be loyal to me. That’s, you know, that’s oversimplifying it, but maybe I’ll get really offended easily because of something they did that they didn’t even mean to hurt me with. And so it’s sometimes the best thing. It’s sometimes the worst thing in my life that I am, but I understand it about [00:28:00] myself.
And, and so it’s something that I, that I, that I have clarity on, I guess, at this point. And so that, that would pop probably be the ways I would understand myself if everything was ripped away. In the things I want to hold myself to, I’ve always said my kind of life motto is to leave is to, to take less than what I left here on earth.
And so you know, simple, content and trying to help and not hurt.
Chris Gazdik: You know,
Ben Higgins: it’s, it’s,
Chris Gazdik: it’s funny, man, I, I, I think a lot of people would answer that and whatnot. Bye. Bye. With like, Hey like this team or enjoy doing this. And I was thinking about like, maybe just asking a question. Okay. So you got a Saturday of six hours and nothing to do.
What are you going to fill your time with? But no, I I’m listening to you and I’m like, man, this dude seems to have taken a deep dive more than once on self, living out some of the things that you talk about in, [00:29:00] you know, the first part of alone in plain sight. I mean, is that, you’ve done a lot of dives on, on this.
Haven’t you? I’ve tried. Yeah,
Ben Higgins: you know,
Chris Gazdik: I mean, that is a compliment, you know, of
Ben Higgins: course, well, one of the things, you know, is, as I just said, I want to help and not hurt. And I’ve been a part of a lot of things in my life that have hurt with really good intentions really good intentions that end up really hurting somebody or something in this world.
And so now, one of the ways that I think you can combat that, you can Sometimes mess up and still happens and you give yourself a little grace for it is to Try to know what you’re talking about, to try and understand all the sides to it One of the beautiful things in my spiritual journey is to kind of try to understand where everybody’s coming from, from all different places.
You know, it doesn’t mean that my faith tradition changes. But what it does mean is at least I understand other people’s stories. And so when I speak with them to them or hear from them, there’s less pain involved. Yeah. And
[00:30:00] so, yeah, I mean, I have, and it’s something I’m intrigued by, but also just, Again, I want to try to walk through this life helping in the best ways I can.
The only way I know how to do that is to try to get some education.
Chris Gazdik: Very cool. Yeah, you seem to be a very curious mind. Victoria, we’ve got to cover a little bit. You, you know the show. What do you, what do you want to know? I feel like we’ve got to talk about The Bachelor a little bit, right? Like,
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, I like grew up watching The Bachelor, like with my mom and then with my dad.
In college and all that stuff. I guess like my question would be then like, where was your favorite place that you got to go to or like your favorite thing that you got to do while you were like interacting with the show?
Ben Higgins: So boring. So I’m gonna give you two answers here because one is, one is my truthful answer.
Okay. And that’s going to be disappointing. My favorite place that we ever went was my hometown. We did a whole week in Warsaw. And this is a town of [00:31:00] 9, 000 people And it was the coolest thing ever. You got to think about like being a hometown hero for a week. I mean, everybody came. Yeah, everybody came out.
I had so many familiar faces that would be there, which you live in a bubble when you’re on this show and and so you don’t see a lot of familiar faces. You don’t have the familiarity of life. And so when we did this whole week there, The town kind of blew up and it was incredible for me. I, I loved it.
And so that was my favorite place, but I would say a place that people might want to visit. That actually is, is, you know, answering your question in a fair way would be Ireland. So when I was in the bachelorette, yeah, we went to Dublin and Killarney, Galway all those places blew my mind. Like they were the coolest places.
And there’s a couple of reasons. One, they’re beautiful. There’s so much history. You know, that’s obvious, but the really thing that stood out to me was. You would go to a [00:32:00] pub and it would be people from 20 to 80. All singing together, sitting together, laughing together. And I was like, this is a picture of for me in a lot of ways in Ireland,
Chris Gazdik: in Ireland, like this is, this is fun.
It’s good beer too.
Ben Higgins: Yeah. I mean, it was incredible. Like just to see the camaraderie amongst ages, which you don’t see here in the U S it is unfamiliar 80 year old sitting at the same table with a 20 year old singing the same song and cheers and together. I thought that was amazing. It was an environment I could have lived in forever.
And so. I’d say Ireland was my favorite. Yes.
Chris Gazdik: You know, I’m getting excited because I think I saw your episode. I think I did. I think I saw it.
Ben Higgins: You did?
Chris Gazdik: I think I did, because I remember my wife will watch some of this, which by the way, I get to give a shout out. This might be the only show she might ever listen to, so shout out to Lisa.
Very cool for me. Hi Lisa. [00:33:00] So I remember when you went to the hometown, I think, because I heard your voice just describing it and talking about going to the hometown, like, I think that was on the TV. So anyway, that’s kind of cool. Yeah, yeah, it’s fun. Did you enjoy the show also? And the real relationship dynamics and the stress of it.
I mean, there’s a, there’s a lot that goes into that that I don’t. I don’t think people really know how to appreciate.
Ben Higgins: Yeah, no, I’m sure. Victoria, you did have a second part of that question that I did not answer. What was it?
Victoria Pendergrass: I said, or the thing that you got to do, like, I can’t remember all of yours.
Yeah.
Ben Higgins: You know, the thing I got to do that I love the most Victoria was we were in Jamaica. And it, you know, it’s hard to drive through Jamaica and so I, so everybody else would be driving like five hours to our next spot and I would take a helicopter. And again, that’s when I felt really cool. You get there in about 20 minutes.
So I got to find a helicopter a lot and that was awesome. But [00:34:00] to answer your question, Chris, did I enjoy the show? Yes. I wish I would have enjoyed it more. I think I was very stressed out most of the time. I think it was a very overwhelming environment for me most of the time. I felt very incapable of being whatever it is they needed me or wanted me to be yeah, you know, I remember a moment halfway through the season where they’re so excited to show me the trailer for my season and the tagline for my season was the perfect Ben.
You know, playing off the perfect 10. And I was so mad I was so hurt because I was like, I can’t live up to that. Like that’s, it’s ultimately going to disappoint everybody. So, you know, there was a lot of things about it that were fun. It was a great experience in my life. One that’s changed my life in so many ways for the better.
I would never take it back. I would, I would say yes to it again, if I was single at 25 all over again, just to To have the opportunities that it’s come from come from it, but you know, it’s [00:35:00] three months of filming It’s 40 dates back to back to back to back. It’s a lot of emotion from not only yourself But the people involved and there’s a lot of things happening where stores are being told that people aren’t ready to maybe tell publicly And now they’re telling it to 11 million people On national television and and you got to kind of navigate that but overall, yes I would say it’s been good for my life.
And it, and it’s something that I, that I I’m proud of in a lot of ways that I did it, made it through it. And I’m still somewhat of the man I was before that, but also have grown maybe in some ways too. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: it’s interesting. I’ve talked more about The Bachelor and The Bachelorette in the last like 46 hours or whatever that I ever happened in my life.
So I, I, I’ve developed a couple curiosities. I’m sure you’re attached to some of the, the ins and outs of the, the, the, I don’t know, what do you call them? Like contestants or whatever? Like, I don’t know, I don’t know what the proper lingo would be. Is that fair? That’s
Intro: fair. It’s
Chris Gazdik: a contestant. [00:36:00] Yeah, how many people have really gotten married?
I mean, that’s not the idea now anymore. Is it? Is it just the show that where you get engaged or not? You know people got married or I mean How are the realities I guess in talking to the the other? Bachelorettes, the other young women, the other young men about what that, you know, whole finding love thing is
Ben Higgins: to
Chris Gazdik: shine realism on it.
Ben Higgins: Yeah. I mean, the, the percentages took a drop there for a while. But a lot of people nowadays are in the last, you know, eight seasons yeah. Or getting very close, haven’t planned. I’d say it took a dip there for a couple years and then it’s kind of back and so I do think the idea The idea stayed the same from the beginning of the show.
It’s kind of their bread and butter, but it also I think for any successful couple that comes from the show, they’re going to have to kind of read date post show. They’re going to have to figure out what life looks like. They’re going to get each other’s cell phone numbers. They’re going to have to find out each other’s middle names.
They’re going to have to understand what life looks like. And I think that’s what a lot of couples are doing [00:37:00] today is there. Kind of reinvesting outside of that show when it works out when they want it to work out. Well
Chris Gazdik: I’m a little more familiar with the the reality show survivor. We, we want a lot of survivor over the years and in intense circumstances, I know psychologically you do get, you know, really involved connections.
I like what you said in the book, right? We experience things together and that connects us. And so, but but I hear you saying after the show, you have to redate, you have to relearn each other. And I imagine the same thing happens with like survivor friendships. Cause it, it definitely forges a new relationship.
Ben Higgins: Yeah, I think it’s very similar. I mean, It’s an uncomfortable, unfamiliar environment. I think once you get back in some familiarity, there is switches that happen, right? You don’t you don’t life doesn’t look like it does on those shows in the real world. And then new responsibilities are kind of pulling at you.
I went back to my full time job for two years post my time as the bachelor. Because I needed health insurance. And so, you know, I was working nine,
[00:38:00] nine to five Monday through Thursday and flying to LA on Fridays to do whatever interviews or whatever obligations I needed to do. And I did that for a long time.
And so, you know, I found a couple other paths that allowed me to leave that job and kind of move into a different direction. But it is, it’s a very it’s a, it’s a very weird time for a bunch of 20 year olds. I mean, I was 20, 25 when I was on the show, I was just out of college a few years. I was trying to figure out what the world looked like without school and without, you know, kind of the, the complicated or the, the the connectedness of having your peer group around you.
And I was having, I was in my first job out of college at the time. And so. Yeah, you, you kind of reconnect and then life switches up a little bit. So when I talk to leads today, one of my biggest words of advice for them is to write down who you were before the show. Because you kind of forget it spits you up, it chews you up and spits you out when you get on, on a show because you’re, you’re instantly [00:39:00] almost famous for a few months of your life.
Chris Gazdik: That is a a cool title for a podcast. You should come up with that. Yeah, I should. Well, let’s, let’s turn, let’s turn gears to social media, right? And Victoria, you’re, you’re, you guys are of the same, you know, cohort and whatever. I mean, I want you guys almost to kind of bang out with this and just see like, you know, Ben you’re interestingly like living in the middle of social media and Victoria, you’re sort of, as we’ve talked about on the show before, you know, you’re a native to it, which.
By the way, I want to say let me highlight a couple episodes for our show. Cause Ben, we’ve talked about this before, right? Episode 49, we talked about loneliness has become an epidemic going all the way back to the beginning under 50. Right.
Intro: And
Chris Gazdik: then episode one, one 97, we talked about, do people know how to be friends?
That was a, a really cool topic. I felt like when we kicked that around episode one 94, we talked about stop numbing and start living, which had a [00:40:00] lot to do with how we numb out. You know, and, and, and really wanting to twitch that over into living. And then lastly, does social media and cell phones affect mental health?
We hit that barrier early on as well. So, so we’ve talked about Victoria, social media, how living in the middle of it, being native to it, Victoria. That you are, this actually increases loneliness, like, I’ve been trying to work this out in my, my mind, and in working with people in therapy it’s, it’s like a complete oxymoron, and it’s just an amazing human experience so what do you younger folks, what, does that make sense?
I mean, it’s not really a question, I guess, it’s just, Like a, wow, what is this human experience? Right. Well, I
Victoria Pendergrass: mean, you know, like, you know, I work with all age people, like literally like five to 65. And I mean, I work with like a lot of like young adults, fellow, fellow millennials as myself. Mm-Hmm. . And like, [00:41:00] I mean, yeah, like social media comes up a lot.
We are constantly talk about like making friends. That’s normally like, especially with my. Some of the male population I work with, but a lot of like the female population I work with, it is a lot of like, how do we make friends? And how do I like go out and do that in this age of like social media? And you know, what, like there’s like bumble friends now and like all these things that you can use to make friends, but it’s not always the easiest.
And then that goes back to loneliness. So I think, yeah, like social media definitely plays a part in I would say especially like millennials and younger, specifically more than like, Chris, no offense, your generation.
Chris Gazdik: My generation is different, baby. I mean, it is. Yeah. But I want to remind you, Ben, we have a guy who’s much older than me on the show.
[00:42:00] I told you John said it, so I just want to throw that in there. I’m also wondering, like, what’s
Victoria Pendergrass: Ben’s perspective on like, what’s your perspective on like, Social media and like,
Ben Higgins: you know, you cut out a little bit on me there, but I think I got the question. What’s my perspective on social media?
You’re a little cut out. I don’t know what’s happening.
Intro: I
Ben Higgins: did get your question. I think what’s my perspective on social media and loneliness for people like, kind of our age. You know, I think social media for me does a couple different things. I think it’s a very complex platform or media that I, I don’t have always a healthy relationship with.
I want to be honest. It does bring about some, some very specific negative emotions for me. Emotions when I say negative, they don’t make me the best version of myself [00:43:00] and that’s envy and jealousy. It’s comparing a lot of myself to maybe other people that have been on the show or maybe other people that I went to high school with.
I don’t know how you
Chris Gazdik: don’t, honestly, the way these things are created. I just don’t know how you don’t.
Ben Higgins: Yeah, I mean, I think you do. I think that’s something that is common. But there’s also a lot of benefits for me. You know, I get to see I don’t think I’d be keeping in touch with my High school, third, you know, different group of friends person, if it wasn’t through social media even right now we have a big snow storm in Colorado.
I posted a picture of it on my story and I heard from three people that I don’t think I would have any connection with at this point in my life, if it wasn’t for social media and the ability for them to pick up their phones and be like, Hey, that looks crazy. And I’m saying it is crazy. How’s life. There are benefits to it, too.
I think the thing that that social media has done [00:44:00] is we feel like we’re more connected to people than ever. We feel that way because we’re seeing more information than ever. We’re seeing What our friends are doing. The difference that we’re not doing though, is taking it one more step and actually connecting with them, actually give them a call, actually tell them how we feel actually sitting down with them and have, you know, breaking bread, doing the things that we as humans, I believe we’re always created to do.
We’ve stopped doing, because we feel like we’re being a good friend because yeah, we saw that they were in Hawaii last week on vacation, but we just don’t care to ask them about it. Because we get all the updates on social media. And so I think over time, when we get in that rhythm and that habit, there’s a great divide, there’s a great divide between actually knowing what’s going on in somebody else’s life and.
And believing that you do. But here’s where I think it switches and it becomes personal. I think other people are doing the same thing. So if I’m doing that, my best friends are doing that as well. [00:45:00] They’re seeing my life updates on Instagram and social media. And as a result, they’re not reaching out to me.
And so I’m feeling more and more alone because it feels like none of my friends care. Feels like none of them are actually engaging in my life at all. They’re not worried about my life. They’re not asking questions about my life because they’ve seen my life on social media and they just believe by them seeing it and double tapping it, it’s giving me the validation or it’s giving me the understanding that yes, I’m still there and yes, I still care.
So it goes both ways. It’s our behavior and then it’s also the behavior of others towards us that I think is really causing this gap. With when it comes. So yes, I don’t think it’s all unhealthy. I would not advocate for wiping it off the map because I do believe there’s people out there who are benefiting from it.
However, I believe that we are still not very good at knowing the pros, the cons and the ways to navigate this in a healthy way.
Chris Gazdik: So here’s the thing. It’s, it’s, it’s fascinating, man, because I’m, I’m sitting here listening to you, dude. And I’m [00:46:00] like, wow, I, because I read the book and kind of feel like I know some of the story.
I, I also think that’s where I’m observing, but I, I, I feel like, you know, I know there was some of the drug stuff you shared in your book and the injury and the sports that no longer was. And, you know, this, there was several things that like broke you down. It, it feels like. Yeah. And you’ve done several deep dives on self, and the way that I just heard you talk about the bigger picture of, like, human connection and the learning that younger people are needing to do with that, like, that doesn’t come, like, you’ve done a lot of work to get to that point, it feels like.
Ben Higgins: Yeah, I mean, I think you know, I’ve always said I don’t want to hang out with anybody that doesn’t feel like they’ve been broken at some point in their life. Because I believe everybody has and that’s a [00:47:00] big statement. Say that again. I don’t want to hang out with anybody that hasn’t been broken at some point in their life because, yeah.
You learn a lot through, you know, the dark nights of the soul or through the heaviness that comes from life. And then you, you work through it and hopefully you work through it. And the people that work through it oftentimes
have lessons to tell, or they’re a little more authentic in their messaging and genuine in their response.
And I, and I don’t say that to say, I don’t want to hang out with people. I say that because I think everybody. Probably has a moment where they’ve been broken. And and some maybe in more drastic ways than others. There’s no way to quantify pain. Maybe, you know, on that level, like, if, if it hurt you and you’ve learned through it I’m intrigued by it and I’m intrigued by you.
So that’s 1 thing. I also think, you know, I think the search for relevancy for a long period of my life was kind of this like calling card. It was why people wanted to work with me is because I was relevant. It was what agents and managers [00:48:00] were pushing me towards is how do you stay more relevant?
How do you keep in the headlines? How do you stay on top of stuff? It’s a horrible pressure, right? It’s a horrible pressure because ultimately what that does is it makes you adapt to whatever needs to be relevant at the time. And so you’re changing yourself constantly. You’re always looking for the next, you know, person to hang out with who might blow, you know, blow you up to the next magazine or the next headline.
You’re always looking for the right person. For the story that needs to be told given whatever’s cool at the time or where the cooler clothes or all those things. And so you ultimately end up changing yourself along the way. And there’s no concrete foundation for who you are. You forget, you know, you end up forgetting who you are as a human and who others are to you, and you’re just out to stay cool.
And so that changed pretty drastically in my life when I kind of gave up the search of relevancy. And I said, okay. Once I kind of got some comfort and some contentment and excitement around my job, my family the path that [00:49:00] I was moving on, then I said, okay, people are going to get to know me for who I am and it’s no longer going to be to adapt to, you know, make the next headline.
And so that also was a moment of kind of breaking, but also relearning for me. That that I like to talk about, you know, publicly as well, because you know, a lot of people are trying to do that. They’re trying to figure out to stay relevant. They’re wondering why it feels so empty. Well, it’s because, you know, you’ve lost yourself in the process.
Chris Gazdik: Gotcha. Yeah. There’s just such a lot there. Victoria, I feel like you’re coming in and out. Are you, are you still with us? Okay.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. I just, sorry. Had to get my phone charger.
Chris Gazdik: Technology and the way stuff works. Well, listen here, I want to take a quick break and and highlight our sponsor and see if you’d be willing to kind of pop some of that Victoria.
And before I do, while you gather your thoughts about remembering your sponsor is and stuff I want to say that, listen, like your job is to help us guys. If you like the content that we do, please press the like button. All that stuff really helps us out with the [00:50:00] social media aspect. What else to say?
We have that cup, buy me a cup of coffee to help the show out so we can keep doing the things that we’re doing. And we have the sponsor, which is first to rising bank, right? Victoria.
Victoria Pendergrass: That’s right.
Chris Gazdik: Go.
Victoria Pendergrass: And they are, do you want me to go? Okay. Yeah, good. They’re located in from Memphis, Tennessee, and they are just your friendly neighborhood bank.
They’re there to help you with financial literacy, getting accounts together, making sure you’re managing your money in a good way. Kind of financing services that you need.
Chris Gazdik: Ben, she’s going to be so mad at me for the way I, the way I popped her for that. Why? You did great. You did great. Yes, sir. Yes, ma’am.
Let’s, let’s spend a little bit of time with, with the actual book. And like I said, guys I think I said it on the Facebook live thing. I’ll do you, Ben. You don’t have to wave it around. I’ll do it [00:51:00] for you. This guy’s too humble that he won’t promote it, I don’t think like it needs to be, because on the Facebook Live before the recorded show started, I really made the statement like, look, This, this is a good guide.
It’s a good book. I could say that, Ben, to you publicly, you know, having done therapy since 95 in one form or another. That’s 1995, just so you know, if you’re doing the math there. Anyway, I’ve seen a lot of, I’ve seen a lot of things come
and go in my time. And I’ve gotten to read a lot of books in my time, you know, with Morgan James authorship and different, you know, circles that I’m able to, Honored to be in with now.
And I told my wife like, dude, check this one out and read it because it really has a very good encapsulation of genuine real life experience with some of your friends and the stories that you tell and such an important topic as connecting like this here is a good one. Guys, you got to check out this, this book alone in [00:52:00] plain sight.
And the subtitle, right? Searching for connection when you’re seen, but not known. And I’ll tell you why that’s such a powerful experience for my therapy brain, Ben. I was at a, I was at a conference. They were asking, what’s the most painful experience that you think you can? And our therapist brains are going like, Oh, you know, your, your mama dying, your daddy dying or death, or, Ooh, a big one would be your baby dying.
I mean, that one as a parent just would blow my brain away. You know, it’s like, I, you know, we’re guessing all these things in the, in the presenters, like, nah, nah, nah. And, and she laid it out. She’s like the most painful experience that a human being can have. Is when you feel invisible. Okay. It is a powerful psychological reality that we know so far as psychologically when babies do not receive the nurturance that they need, the care that they need, the [00:53:00] touch that we need to feel and experience with other human beings.
They simply die. It’s like, you know, Life’s not worth living, almost, they psychologically experience. Like, we know being invisible Is such a powerful thing. So the, the comments that I’m thinking I’m driving to is I love the way, you know, the parts are experienced and I think it’s through a long journey, a lot of journey that you’ve done, but so the listening audience understands it’s, it’s cool because.
Part 1 is no longer alone, and then you go on. And part 2 is no longer alone, and you go on. Part 3 and 4 has that same, that same repeating sentence. And I think that’s so cool because Part one is no longer alone, reconnected to self, no longer alone, reconnected to others, no longer alone, reconnected romantically, and no longer alone, [00:54:00] reconnected with God.
And that is a Christian orientation that you point out your creator, the God of your understanding, a thing greater than yourself. It’s a, it’s a powerful way of looking at things. I, I thank you for your work. It’s pretty cool. I don’t have a specific question. Just leading up to like, wow, man. Good.
Good job.
Ben Higgins: Thanks. Yeah. I mean, I think the, the 1 note in there would be the romantic section is, is also, you know, it’s mostly about singleness and it’s mostly about those who are single. And wanting and single and not wanting in both those, the value in both those things, you know, the, the people who are single and just saying, Hey, you know what, I want to live life without that partner, because it opens me up to all new opportunities and all new places and all new kind of things that I can do the freedom of that sounds really intriguing to me.
And that’s great. That’s awesome. Or the people that are single and kind of looking and wanting a partner and knowing, you know, The truth to that, that, you know, what does that look like when [00:55:00] you’re feeling like, my goodness, nobody is ever going to want to, you know, spend their life with me. Nobody’s ever going to want to make that commitment towards me.
But the, the beauty and those that messaging kind of what doesn’t feel beautiful at the time is actually absolutely beautiful. And so. That’s a part of the book that I was really proud of, but also really wanted to highlight because I believe it’s well, at some point we’re all single and so we’ve all felt it.
Chris Gazdik: I love that you did that. I’m going to tell you exactly why. There’s some, there’s some people in my circle that are going to be very happy with, with you in that way. So, true story, if you’ll allow me the liberty. I was having a conversation with a colleague of mine. Her name is Trish. I can say that because she’s been on our show.
She made all this public. And anyway, I was, she’s a colleague. I’ve known her for years in different ways and whatnot. And I was talking to her and, and, and how did it come up? We were just, we were just, Chewing the fat honestly, and we were talking about dating kind of came up and we were talking about getting married come up and whatever And she made a comment like yeah, because she’s never [00:56:00] been married and she’s like my age and and she had a friend that is in the same boat that she knows of I mean, I wasn’t filtered.
I was unfiltered. I wasn’t trying to be political or anything. I was like, all right Well trish what’s wrong with you guys? What happened? What’s wrong? She just stopped. She’s like chris I was like, Whoa, what? I’m sorry. I knew I was instantly in trouble because it was a spot for her and she, she talked about that, that you’re just pointed out the, the, the being single your whole life and how that fits in and being connected still in, in the way that you just described, like that’s a whole population of people.
And, and that’s okay too. There’s nothing wrong with that. So we brought on, we talked
Ben Higgins: about that. Yeah. It’s great. It’s awesome. There’s so much good that can come from that. And it’s, there’s so much value that can come from being single. It’s an amazing life choice. One that I totally understand and totally support.
And you know what, there’s very few of us who have the, the courage that they have to [00:57:00] make that choice or to walk that road. And I think it’s a very courageous path in life. And. It’s one that I really respect. And so I I definitely wanted to make sure that anybody out there that heard that.
And it’s also one, no matter what, again, faith tradition you come from, the Bible is pretty clear that. You know what? It’s a great life choice. It’s a ton of fun. You have so much freedom. There’s so many things you can do with that. That’s super cool. And so you know, I think the church in general over the last, you know, 75 years has really put a pressure on.
You need to get married. You need to do this. Why aren’t you finding somebody? What’s going on? Let me set you up with this person, this person. And I’ve never done it an injustice to the people out there who are just like, I’m just not interested. Like, stop making that your calling card on my life. You don’t get that you don’t get to make that decision for me.
And I think that’s awesome. And we also, like, forget Paul’s pretty direct words when, when. He speaks and says no, singleness is totally cool. Rock it. [00:58:00]
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Yeah, he does. Corinthians and a lot of, in multiple places. Yeah, that’s and Paul’s of course an apostle. He’s in the biblical text and, and a strong character in the Bible.
I, I think there’s just different things that we can go with in, in so far as specific little spots from the book. I mean, I, I don’t know how to, I don’t know how to whittle it down a little bit. And I mean, you know, short of doing a Rogan style podcast where we just have the, the long format, which I would love, how are we doing on time?
By the way, we, I want to respectful of your time. Are we, are we okay? We,
Ben Higgins: I got seven minutes to my next meeting.
Chris Gazdik: Seven minutes to your next meeting. Okay. Glad I asked. So how do we, how do we summarize this stuff up in, in points from the book? I mean, I think what I want to do then is, tell us about, set this up when you were with the theater group.
And I actually want to read what you said from the book, because I think that really [00:59:00] encapsulates a lot of what it is that is not only your book, but your work, and what it is that you said to this theater group. Do you remember that part? Oh, yeah.
Ben Higgins: Oh,
Chris Gazdik: yeah.
Ben Higgins: You know, I put
Chris Gazdik: you on the spot. I thought I as I was saying that I’m like, oh, God, what happens if he forgets that part
Ben Higgins: now?
No, I can’t forget it. I will say to summarize the book and hit the points is that, you know, I’d love people to read it. And my hope when I wrote it was that they would close the book. And if anything else just said, Hey, I feel a little less alone. Or maybe a lot less alone or maybe they just say, I feel less alone whatever they want to say or feel.
That was my hope. And that’s kind of was the message there. The theater group was a request that I got a few years ago when I was coming off the show, doing all this really cool stuff, hosting television shows and my cousin called and said, Hey, will you come to a small little town in Indiana and be a part of my community theater for three shows?
We’re doing Greece, and she was a senior in high school at the time. [01:00:00] And I was like, there’s a lot of things that I’d rather be doing than this. I’m way too cool for this was my first reaction and then I slept on it. I was like, I got to do it. Like, I got to do this. 1 because I love my cousin and she’s awesome too because I never, I never want to get too cool for something.
That’s not who I am. So I’m going. So I went kind of in summary, watch these people, these kids practice and kind of go through everything. And there’s people from all different. There’s kids that. From all different backgrounds, cultures upbringings sexual orientations, just a big old mix of kids.
Like, I mean, you had all, and you, it was theater. So you had like all the mix of kids. I mean, the theater, if you want to meet some wild high schoolers, just go to the theater group because they’re big personalities. And they’re different than anybody I hung out with in high school because I was an athlete.
But they’re beautiful and they’re amazing. And so at the end of all this. There is their last show and they were holding hands and they were talking about all the things that they’re going to [01:01:00] miss about this theater group. Hey, this is the place I felt most seen. This is the place I felt most loved.
This is a place that’s understood me the best. This is where I’ve had my friends for the last 12 years, all of these things. And it hit me. I was like, well, what you’re, you know, and so I stepped out cause it was my turn to share. And I was like, I don’t know any of you, so I can’t say I’m going to miss any of you.
But what I can say is everything you’ve said in this, in this circle, it has value. Because now because you’ve tasted and seen what good community looks like you can go take that to wherever you’re going to be going next year. Maybe job in life is not to be community consumers, but it’s to be community builders.
And to build communities like you’ve tasted and seen here in this theater group. That was my message is to be community builders. So I don’t know if that’s the part you’re going to read and I just ruined it for you. Yeah, it’s still
Chris Gazdik: a little bit of thunder, but it’s alive and in the person and it’s way better.
Yeah. I did, and I still want to read it because you were a little bit more expounding on that in the book, and it was powerful and poignant because everyone’s experienced the explosion [01:02:00] that happens in graduation, for instance, and this group was so nicely described, everyone was holding and bonded and in a circle, and the group was so strong, and they were Suddenly one admitting, wow, you guys accepted me and you, you’ve been my group and why, and it was just, it was, it was dawning on them that this was going to happen.
And what you said to them is you just expressed everything that makes this community so beautiful, all the things that you’ve allowed you to connect. You on a level that you’ve never connected with another human in your life. All the things that have allowed you to feel loved and accepted and trusted and safe.
This is beautiful. And I know you all are scared because I don’t know what the next stage of life is going to bring, which I would interject. We all live in
throughout our life cycle, right? I know you were hurting because you do not want to lose the connections that you have in this room right now. But then you continued, instead of mourning what [01:03:00] may be about to end, You should celebrate it.
You should tell one another thank you for teaching what true love looks like, what true community looks like, what true connection looks like. I know that none of you know what the future may hold, but I want to challenge you to take what you’ve learned from this circle of people and go out and create this in every season of your life.
No matter where you may go, no matter who you may be with, no matter if this is one person or eight. Be the community starter. And you know how. Think about what you connected. It wasn’t just the productions you pulled off. More than that, it’s how you connected over your hurts and your vulnerabilities. You took time to get to know one another and love one another.
And I know from experiences that many people in this world feel completely disconnected and misunderstood. They need a group like this because you have been taught connection through this group that you can take the steps to [01:04:00] connect with them throughout life. Wow. Wow. The power of learning how to do that and being a connection starter and being a part of a group and allowing yourself to reach out.
With vulnerability and the courage that it takes to, to connect because connecting can be scary powerful stuff, brother. I’m
Ben Higgins: impressed. Well, I appreciate it. No, I mean, I think when you listen and learn from others, power comes from it. And so you just get to be the communicator and well, I got to be the communicator there.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Yeah. Very cool stuff. Well, I’m worried that we got to wrap down anything that we want to send in conclusion Victoria, Ben, and I’ll, I’ll wrap us out of here.
Victoria Pendergrass: My conclusion is always mental health related and that, you know, kind of what we said at the beginning, you’re not alone. If you are feeling lonely, which is kind of ironic, but, you know, use the resources that you have access to, read the book, [01:05:00] participate in therapy, do the things that are going to help you feel less alone in the world.
Ben Higgins: I would say I’d love for you to read the book, but I’m not going to force that upon anybody. You can go to generous coffee. com. If you
support something awesome and even a small way look at some coffee, learn about the story. I would, I would love for everybody out there to do that.
And then, yes, alone in plain sight, you can still get on Amazon. And I’ll, I’ll see if a few people purchase here in the next couple of days, I’ll give everybody, I’ll give you all the credit. Thanks for having me and I appreciate the conversation.
Chris Gazdik: I’m going to make you interested in checking out through a therapist I’ve been, because in the last 10 minutes I’ve just made a decision.
Unless you object. But I think what I want to do is get our panel talk and focus. Like, I’m not done talking about this. I’m too, way too warmed up. So I want to take a couple of the things in your, in your book and have John and Victoria and I talk about it. Cause I want to take a deeper dive on let’s get connected.
How [01:06:00] do we get connected? So I think I’m going to spend a whole, a whole show on that next next week. Sound, sound interesting. I think it sounds great. I’ll be listening. Okay, cool. I’m going to, I’m going to get the old man, John, myself as a young person and the millennial Victoria talking about a deeper dive on Ben’s thoughts on how do we really get connected?
That’s what we’re going to do next week. Ben, I really appreciate you hanging out with his brother is very, very kind of you. Yeah. But To maybe coordinate with you in the future and stay in touch. Sounds great. Thank you both. Appreciate you.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. Thanks for being here.
Chris Gazdik: Guys. We’ll see you next week. Take care and be well.