In Episode 282, we review July’s highlights and welcome new YouTube subscribers, Trevor Brown and Toshiaq. We revisit a listener email from Episode 221 on emotional detachment in intimate relationships, discussing the balance between being interconnected and maintaining boundaries. We also recap Episodes 278, 279, and 280, which cover therapy modalities, sensory defensiveness, and the impact of mental health on emotional intelligence. Listen for insightful discussions on these topics and practical tips for personal growth and relationship management.
Tune in to see June Month in Review Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Links referenced during the show:
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/monthinreview
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https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
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Episode #282 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Through a Therapist’s Eyes, actually coming to you August the 1st with the July month in review. Got a lot to do tonight. If we have time, we’ll get to four shows. But we may not be able to cover them all. We’ll just play it over to the next month. But if you’re finding us on this platform for the first time we do YouTube lives on Thursdays, every Thursday at about 6 15, we fire up, this is the July month in review, and we’re going to be reviewing the shows where we did therapy modalities explained, and then what is sensory defensiveness?
And then episode two 80 was mental health. therapy’s effect on emotional intelligence. And then lastly, if we have time, I enjoyed the show two 81, what our true needs versus wants. So got a lot that we’ve had going on. I hope you’ve been following along with us. This is where you get insights directly from panel of therapists.
Usually, unless [00:01:00] it’s the July month in review where we have Mr. Cloninger hanging out with us again. Hello, sir.
Adam Cloninger: Hello.
Chris Gazdik: And Mr. Neal comes out behind the curtains and shares his brilliance with us all through the show.
Neil Robinson: Brilliance, I doubt it, but hello. It
Chris Gazdik: is brilliant. But not to delivery of therapy services in any way click subscribe, help us out to be found.
We’re getting some traction on YouTube. We got two new YouTube subscribers that we want to give a shout out to and that would be, I’m going to butcher the name, but it’s T O S H I A Q. I guess
Neil Robinson: I’m going to say it’s Tosha Q. Like I’m guessing that the Q might be a last name initial. Maybe that
Chris Gazdik: is, yeah, well, the YouTube names are, you never know.
You never, mine’s different. And then the Mr. Trevor Brown, welcome to the. to the platform. We we enjoy getting you guys to subscribe. So, tell your friends and we hope you enjoy what we do. Let me see. Also, contact at
throughatherapisteyes. com is the way that you contact us. And I had a cool email that I want to go over real quick in the beginning here.
[00:02:00] So, that’s coming up here in a minute. This is the human emotional experience which we do endeavor to figure out together. So, welcome aboard those of you that are new. So the email was kind of cool. Neil, did you see that come through?
Neil Robinson: I did
Chris Gazdik: not. You did not see
Neil Robinson: it? Well, I’ve been entrenched in email issues.
I did not check that email. How
Chris Gazdik: did you not catch the email, man? Amongst all of the crashing that you’ve been dealing with the last couple of weeks.
Neil Robinson: Is that a fair way to say email crashed? No, it’s not. I just call it email cluster right now, but that’s a whole nother, that’s a whole nother term. But yeah, no, it didn’t crash.
Chris Gazdik: So we got a cool email from episode 221 and it it was the show that said, don’t take things personally in marriage or family. And who is this from? Did I write it down? You did not. I did not. Fail. So anyway, the email says, is it possible to truly detach emotionally and not take things personally in intimate relationships?
Or are we inherently wired to be affected by our loved ones as [00:03:00] words and actions? And I, you know, we get, you know, questions from time to time and we interact with people. So really contact it through a therapist as a fun way to get direct interaction with us. I follow it personally. Pretty closely. I have it clipped to my email every day So I really thought this was a really cool question though, because it it is a a tough Situation and circumstance so i’m curious off the cuff you guys what you think and see from just your own perspectives Can you actually get to a place where you don’t take things personally from a spouse
Adam Cloninger: you can try?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah,
Adam Cloninger: but that’s way easier said than done.
Chris Gazdik: It’s one of those easier said than done things You Neil, what’s your Take off the cuff.
Neil Robinson: Same thing. It’s one of those things. I think what he said, you know, everything he said, I think it really just boils down to your relationship. If you actually have a solid relationship, I think you can avoid most of those situations.
But I think even when you have a solid [00:04:00] relationship, there’s going to be those times when they’re going to say something that’s going to strike that nerve. And you’re going to take it personal. I don’t care who you are. So
Chris Gazdik: it’s a common thing to experience. It’s a normal thing to do. So. In an idealized way, which is what we talked about in that show.
That’s what we’re trying to get at. And it really is a skill. It’s a skill that we work to build and grow. And as you’re newlyweds, you’re probably not going to have that greatest skill set developed, but then as you mature in your relationship and as you have healthy characteristics that are built and as trust grows over the years.
These are all factors that really help that to be actually possible because you can get pretty good at not taking things personally. And that’s actually called a healthy relationship. They do exist. I don’t know where I rarely see them, I guess, but I’m a therapist. So
Neil Robinson: would you say you develop a healthy emotional intelligence?
Chris Gazdik: You can develop healthy, emotional intelligence, good playoff of episode. What let’s land it. [00:05:00] 280? That doesn’t sound confident, but I think he’s right. So, there’s another big factor when it comes to this, and it’s actually in my book on marriage that I think is well, it’s got a pub date of December 17th by the way, I’m pretty excited about it, getting pretty proud about it.
But in there I talk about a golden egg is the goal. And, and it’s a weird way of saying that the goal is developing a high level emotional safety between you and your spouse, right? So the goal is to get to a place where you have a high level of emotional safety, which makes it more likely to be able to do this, which as you say, Adam.
Is easier said than done. Another big factor that goes with this is a scale that I’ve talked about on the show that I think is a really important thing to understand.
And it starts on the left and has a bell that we want to get as close to the middle as possible. Where you’re related when you begin to relate to somebody and then as you get closer and closer attached, you become [00:06:00] interrelated.
And when you’re interrelated, you really do affect each other. So the question is a really good one, which is why I’m talking about it on the front end of the show. So, but then you cross over into codependent land and that is a crossover that we don’t want because when you become codependent, Which is a natural state to a certain extent that we don’t want.
But you basically become what the other person is. If the other person’s well, you’re not, you’re well. If the other person’s not well, then you’re not well. So you develop behaviors and attitudes and, and activities that try to make the other person well, so that you’ll be well. That’s the nature of codependency.
Now I know all that’s a lot, but that’s what we don’t want. So not taking things personally is easy to do when we’re related. But then when we’re interrelated, it becomes more difficult when you cross over into codependence, it becomes really hard to do, but that’s something that you can work on internally.
And then the [00:07:00] last part of the scale, by the way, is dependent, which is really, really difficult. It’s like super codependent, really strong characteristics there. So what we’re trying to do is be interrelated, have high levels of safety and trust so that we can not take things personally, and that is a really golden space to be in.
Really hard. elusive. Once you get it, it’s not like you keep it. So that’s where you really have to maintain healthy relationships. So I thought it was a really cool question. Is it possible to truly detach emotionally? Arguably, no, you don’t want to be detached, but you definitely want to avoid as much as possible taking things personally.
If you’re able to not take things personally, you can actually hear what your spouse is trying to say. If you take things personally, you go off into A rabbit hole. So onward, nice transition there. That’s a nice segue right there. Five
Neil Robinson: minutes later to get to your segue. How do you feel?
Chris Gazdik: So Adam joins us on the Monthly Review and we go [00:08:00] down some sort of rabbit hole.
And I don’t know what’s coming here, ladies and gentlemen, but he’s purposely getting a reaction from Neil. Did I get that right?
Adam Cloninger: You’ll see okay, so
Chris Gazdik: that’s what he said. He actually said he’s gonna enjoy our reactions to so whatever this is You know, I always going,
Adam Cloninger: you know, every time I do this, I always find something that I think Thought was, you know, interesting or weird or strange.
So I just happened to see this video a week or so ago where it was, you know, these cooking competitions.
Chris Gazdik: No,
Adam Cloninger: I don’t know. So it’s cooking competitions and the video, and I know what you’re going to say. You’re going to say, I don’t know if this is real or not. So, but this, this was the video I actually saw and I did some, well, I get, I get to that minute.
So they’re in the cooking show. They were, we’re going to use a. Seeker ingredient. Okay. So after they. [00:09:00] Habaneros? After they try it. They, they could, they prepare something and they bring it out. You’re not even gonna respond to my habanero comment. It’s not habaneros.
Chris Gazdik: So. Those are really, really hot.
Adam Cloninger: This is, this is worse than habaneros.
Chris Gazdik: Oh my gosh.
Adam Cloninger: So the, the first woman she tries it, you know, she’s kind of saying that’s strange flavor. Second person tries it. That’s an interesting, little bit different flavor. So he says, well, what is it? And they, he gives three things. And he mentions, I think it was chef does, chef does. And I can’t remember what two of them are, but the one that would, I thought was really strange.
One of them said human flesh. No. So I’m thinking, okay, this sounds, but the show went on and they were pretty upset. Because, you know, the two people who Tasters? Yes. They were pretty upset. So, you know, my first thing is, and this is where Neil’s going to think, [00:10:00] so what do you think I did, Neil? You Googled it.
That’s right. That’s what I did. So Of course he did. Apparently You can’t really find a whole lot of information, but this is what I thought was strange. There’s
only one state in the U. S. where it’s actually illegal to consume human flesh. Only one? Only one. And that’s because back in the 60s they had some kind of issue with some kind of cult.
Where they made a law because there was concern about them eating human flesh. But the other 49 states perfectly legal. But so I’m doing my research, you know, my due diligence. So I’m doing my, you know, asking the questions like a serial killer or whatever. How do you get human flesh? Where do you purchase?
The FBI is on Adam’s tail here in about a week. Yeah. How do you get human flesh for cooking purposes? You know, so you really can’t find a whole lot of information, but but I just thought it was neat and I thought I would. So it’s a real thing. All right. I mean, I don’t know. It’s on a video. I mean, it could have been bogus for publicity or whatever, [00:11:00] but like I said, I looked it up and it’s only one, it’s actually only illegal in one state.
So I was like, I mean, I don’t know where you’d get it or how you’d get it. Or yeah,
Chris Gazdik: Amazon has everything. I got. Full car parts or tractor parts for all of my tractor components. And I couldn’t even get them from Lowe’s or home Depot or tractor stores. So I think we should Google Amazon and see if they have.
Okay. I don’t even know what to do with this. I guess this is just a reaction. Yes. The reaction. I just thought it was an
Adam Cloninger: interesting, weird thing. And I knew he was going to be like, well, you. Well,
Neil Robinson: just FYI, I’ve seen that before and it actually was like a prank show. They were messing with them. So it’s not really, I think I saw something after the fact that’s like, yeah, it wasn’t real legitimate cause it was, it was a shocker.
Oh yeah. But yeah, that’s, and then the rabbit, where you go down is like, hmm. What are the leg legit? What are the logistics of this? Yeah. How would they actually get the food? Yeah. So I did. So
Adam Cloninger: that’s, [00:12:00]
Neil Robinson: but yeah, that, that’s the human psych. Like you think about it, it’s you know, if they eat and it’s like, oh, okay, well that’s not bad.
And then tell ’em what it is. It’s like on, it’s a really disturbing
Chris Gazdik: thought that psychologically I believe and, and, and find to be true. Generally it is that, if you can think of it, like simply think of it, some human around the world has actually done it
Adam Cloninger: well. I mean, there’s, there’s still. Cannibals now.
Well,
Neil Robinson: there
Adam Cloninger: was, I was watching another show. So I mean, of course I had,
Neil Robinson: I was watching another show where there was some tribes, some tribes or Aborigines, I think in, in Australia or somewhere. And they had this thing where they had this disease that only affected this particular tribe and they were slowly dying and dying, dying.
Well, come to find out there was a great. There’s a couple, have you ever watched Mr. Bolland before? I have. He’s a fantastic storyteller. I think it was him. Is this the one where it’s similar to Mad Cow and Alzheimer’s? Right, exactly, but come to find out it was because of the ritualistic and the human brain protein and stuff.
Chris Gazdik: Cas needs to know, we have a YouTube comment. What [00:13:00] state Is it legal in? We need to know. Illegal in. No, it’s only, it’s only illegal in one state. I can’t even say it right. That doesn’t sound right.
Adam Cloninger: Okay, what’s the one state? Do I need to Google it? Are you scared to Google it? She just wants to know. We have to know now.
I have to look.
Neil Robinson: You don’t remember? How do you not know this? It was like
Chris Gazdik: Indiana or something. I guarantee it ain’t West Virginia. I’ll tell you that. All you people that like to make West Virginia jokes, that’s my home state. Don’t think it’s West Virginia.
Neil Robinson: They won’t, they won’t make it illegal, but it’s, but it’s hard to chew with no teeth.
Oh, come on. Ah, come on. Come on. Dang. Yeah, I have walked in. But no, it is a very interesting thing with, with, you know, the original tribes and those types of things. The survival instincts, the human nature. Like hunter gatherer
Chris Gazdik: societies. Well,
Neil Robinson: I mean, I’ve even thought a couple, and I was like thinking about You know, cultures that eat dogs and cats or stuff like that, or horses, you know, there’s this weird situation that like we have this thing where it’s just kind of weird, right?
You know, when I went to Peru, we ate, we had a guinea pig. We ate a guinea pig, but like, yeah, [00:14:00] that’s something they eat in Peru. Guinea pigs in the mountains is a common, common food.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, so,
Neil Robinson: you know, it’s that it’s that societal changes and, you know, old time tribes would eat, you know, they’d eat the flesh of the enemies when they destroyed them or in the case of that one tribe, that was a way to heart the heart, the brain, you know, those types of brains were doing it, right?
Yeah, it’s the, but like you have those things that is
Chris Gazdik: not as bizarre as you would really think when you start really getting into human behavior, Idaho. Idaho. The folks in Idaho.
Adam Cloninger: Idaho’s the only state where it’s illegal. There you go, Cass. Now, again, I didn’t get much information on how you’d actually acquire that.
Neil Robinson: Well, once again, if someone cut off their own flesh and then gave it to you, you’re not assaulting them. There’s no anything like that. It tells us to be volunteers. Alright, we gotta go. We gotta move on. Good rabbit hole. That’s, that’s enough.
Soylent green, fantastic. What
Chris Gazdik: does that even mean? [00:15:00]
Neil Robinson: And there was a, you know, the, the, I think it’s the, I don’t know if the movie’s called Soylent green, but basically the idea that there’s a, it’s spoilers if you haven’t seen it, but basically the idea is there’s this product or food that society eats. And then there’s all the secret ingredient, supposedly.
There’s people in Soylent Green. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t, is that what movie is that? Is that Soylent Green is the name of the movie? Or is that the product that they sold? I don’t remember cause I’ve never seen it. I just know of it. And I’m surprised you don’t know this one. That’s like, it’s like a weird Stanley Kubrick type movie.
I
Chris Gazdik: love cooking, but I’m not into this type of cooking. So I don’t know. Well, Soylent
Neil Robinson: Green is a fictional movie. It’s along the same lines as the 1984 and you know you know, What was the Clockwork Orange? That kind of weird kind of dystopian. Oh, there are weird. Yeah, okay, so but yeah, Swirling Green. I love it
Adam Cloninger: I was thinking they did a Twilight Zone.
Neil Robinson: Maybe it was Twilight Zone. I don’t know.
Adam Cloninger: Twilight Zone episode where it was that.
Neil Robinson: Cass, where’s that from? You tell us since you’re involved.
Adam Cloninger: All right,
Chris Gazdik: and while she is and while we get let’s let’s let’s get away from the [00:16:00] degenerative Rabbit hole that is alarming and concerning for us all and talk about episode 278.
Is this are we ready to transition? Yep, okay We’re going to 73. It’s movie 1973 well, that’s when I was born. Yep. That’s old school movie time.
Neil Robinson: It was how did you
Chris Gazdik: know that?
Neil Robinson: I’ve just seen the Weird shorts and clips everyone’s followed a lot of the memes and stuff that come with it. It’s just that’s impressive
Chris Gazdik: All right, the three questions to therapy modalities explain.
Do you know what type of therapy your therapist practices? Does it matter what type of therapy a therapist uses? And should I pick a therapist by looking for a certain type of therapy? I am really kind of curious to for this particular episode review show I’m, really curious in y’all’s thoughts about These questions that we kind of kicked around because John and I really geeked out.
Didn’t we?
Neil Robinson: Yeah. You guys went really hardcore on that one. No, dude, it
Chris Gazdik: [00:17:00] was fun, man. We enjoyed it. Honestly. I think John enjoyed that show probably more than, more than any before as I was pretty close as well. We were talking about all kinds of therapy meds and honestly, it’s, it’s a lot of them. Like, what would you say the number that we talked about, Neil?
Neil Robinson: I mean, it was probably 20, 20. Yeah, they were over and
Chris Gazdik: under. I’m thinking 30. Yeah,
Neil Robinson: I think by the time we got to the, cause you guys kept talking and adding more to it. Yeah. I would say over under like 25 to 30 of different, different way. Yeah. Different, different, yeah. And how a therapist uses it, the different stuff that comes with it.
There are a
Chris Gazdik: lot of them, Adam. But what do you think? Do you know what type of therapy your therapist practices? What do you think? People know or ask or, you know, have you ever even considered it? If you’ve considered going to a therapist? Well, I
Adam Cloninger: mean, if you, it’s like anything else. If you’re looking for something, you’re gonna Google it o
And you, you know, pick one of those 30 therapists and boom. I guess I’m wondering if people care. I [00:18:00] I would say some would, because you probably want something that might specialize, just like if you wanted a lawyer, you want a lawyer that specializes in whatever you’re dealing with. So if you’re dealing with a specific thing, I mean, if you’re, you know weird cooking fetishes or whatever it is, you’d probably want to find some kind of therapist.
You gotta go back there. Don’t take us back! And whatever, I mean, I don’t know what the 30 types were, so I’m just picking something, you know, strange.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Neil, what do you think? Do people really think about that and, and, and process that out on, on a individual person’s level?
Neil Robinson: I think it would shift. I think if you’re new to therapy, it’s more about, do I connect with that therapist?
Is it, are they really helping? But I think if you’re experiencing, you have a lot of therapists, you start realizing like, wait, this, this person practices this, that like this one worked this. So why are they so different? Right. So I think at first it’s like. Does it do they help me or not? I don’t think they go in being like, Oh, I want a CBT therapist versus a [00:19:00] psychodynamic therapist or something like they don’t go in thinking that because they don’t know what that actually means.
Right? So it’s really about what are the reviews, you know, how many, what’s their Yelp reviews or what’s the therapy reviews. And then when you sit down and talk to them, Do I gel with them? So yeah, no one thinks about that.
Chris Gazdik: I can tell you that every now and again, people do present and ask, do you do this type of therapy?
And a lot of times actually it’s, it’s, it, for whatever reason is EMDR and acronyms, I desensitization movement. EMDR, whatever that stands for. I forget. But it’s a, it’s a type of, of experience with trauma treatment that people will actually ask for sometimes obviously CBD. There’s, yeah, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, CBT.
CBD is different. CBD is a different type of therapy with THC. Eye
Adam Cloninger: Movement Desensitization and [00:20:00] Reprocessing.
Chris Gazdik: EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. And Reprocessing Therapy, yeah, EMDR. R. E. M.
Neil Robinson: The A is silent. Okay.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, but I, I agree, Neil. I don’t think people really think about this, but you need to be aware and therapists are, I mean, you heard John and I talking about all these things we need to be aware because it’s science based.
Neil Robinson: Yeah, I think when it comes to people, they would look at like family therapy, art therapy, you know, substance abuse therapy. They like, they look at like the topics. They don’t look at the, the practice behind them. I think if you’re looking for a therapist, that’s all that a person would normally think about.
I’m dealing with an addiction or I’m dealing with. My family or a marriage therapy, you know, they look at that side of it. Not. Oh, well, what’s the what’s the root cause that helps us get deal with those problems? So I think that’s the biggest shift. It’s not it’s not what you’re practicing. It’s like what’s the subject matter?
How do they help me? That’s [00:21:00] all I think most people care about. Did you say art therapy? Yeah, it’s a thing. Oh, yeah
Chris Gazdik: art totally Mm
Neil Robinson: hmm. My wife wanted to do that.
Chris Gazdik: As a matter of fact, I, I, I worked with an art therapist and, and learned with her a little bit. It was really, really cool. She was able to show doing art therapy, get this, with a schizophrenic patient.
So that’s delusions and psychosis and hallucinations and some other things that kind of go in with what we call negative symptoms, kind of like depression. And so, I mean, when they’re. Decompensated they’re not quite right and she showed a transaction a transition all the way through like 30 sessions and every session she had the the person do a picture as she was working with them and the first picture was like non conceivable what the person was, was drawing and whatnot.
And as the person went through therapy, this art therapist fascinatingly was able to show more and more form, more and more [00:22:00] concrete, more and more definition of the actual picture, which was a person in a house. Could it not
Adam Cloninger: just be getting better at art? No. Well, there’s also
Neil Robinson: Well, the other thing with art therapy, this is what my wife was leaning towards going there, is like, one, when you’re dealing with young kids, they don’t have the vocabulary to really build out and say what they express or they can’t write, so art therapy is a way for them to express themselves.
Absolutely. That’s one way, but the other part is that when you look at using it with some of the adults or teenagers, there’s things in the colors that you pick, there’s things that The, those types of physical mode, like there’s a lot to it that There’s a lot to it. Kind of gets into the primal side of your brain that kind of helps you kind of release and open up or, or let things out without writing it.
Cause, there’s people that, you ask my oldest kid to explain it to you and write something, you won’t get anything. But, he’d draw a picture about it. It’s a powerful thing. It’s actually, yeah. I don’t know. No,
Chris Gazdik: no, he, listen. It is a powerful, powerful thing. And so what [00:23:00] you’ll see with kids, especially as you say, Neil, that don’t have the verbology, the cognitive ability to describe things, but you’ll see it with adults too, we will draw stuff.
All right. And you will see imagery that comes out of that and consistent from drawing to drawing when you’re working with somebody. And so when you have world events like wars, you will see bombs and you will see things that they saw or, or worked up with. There was a kid that was working with a colleague of mine and they ended up seeing a trauma scene being repeated.
And don’t you know, it was a hurricane. And so the scribble, what looked like scribble, began to be noticed as like, Oh, this is a trauma experience. This person experienced, you can try this at home. I’ll give you something just to demonstrate your skepticism. What, what I want you to do is not necessarily art therapy, but I want you to do three steps with, with something.
And you’ll see how your subconscious can totally [00:24:00] describe what it is that’s going on. I learned this at a conference. So this is by the way, a journaling skill. And so what you do is you just sit down with a piece of paper. And you just free write. And you literally just write whatever comes to your mind.
And you do that for about 10, 15 minutes. Just, it may be ineligible. It, it not recognizable to you. What’s the word I’m looking for?
Neil Robinson: Incomprehensible? Incomprehensible,
Chris Gazdik: right? And then what you do after you stop free writing for about 10 minutes is you circle 10 important words. And you list those words down.
And then you take out About four of those words, which leaves you about six words that are circled. And then you want to write a sentence using as many of those words as possible. And that sentence, when I did this was absolutely on point with what my. Self was working on at the time. It was remarkable.
So just think about
Neil Robinson: that with the [00:25:00] picture side when you start drawing pictures and you start seeing a common theme with your pictures It’s the same thing makes sense. You know, why do I keep drawing a lawnmower because I have to paint it
Chris Gazdik: Well, he picks on you. I love the
Neil Robinson: lawnmower thing I just think that’s crazy, but I think the interesting about that show when you look at the modalities, I love seeing the Adaption of the practice.
Cause you talk about, you know, you know, you think about foreign and Adler or whatever it is. And you talk about like you and John, especially John geeking out. Cause he’s been involved so long. It’s funny to say you like, you mentioned like, Oh yeah, he was my professor back in 1910, like, what the heck, what’s going on?
That’s how you say 19. I did.
Chris Gazdik: He learned directly from the 1910 trainer. Yeah. Yeah.
Neil Robinson: So it’s, but it was really cool seeing. All the different modalities and you see the adaptability of the practice and the growth of understanding the human nature and psyche and the, and we really do do
Chris Gazdik: that behind the scenes.
One of the things I really want you to take from that episode that was really cool to look in depth detail on all of the different modalities, particularly. You know, [00:26:00] younger or newer therapist, you really want to kind of get a couple modalities that you would learn. But then as you’ve been doing it for a while, you, we really do do that, Neil.
Like I will see the presenting problem and I’ll look at this type of therapy. You know, we’ll look at reality therapy or I will look at like your thinking errors and switch midstream. If I find a lot of self loathing and a lot of negative things. Thinking and I’ll really go into cognitive behavioral strategies.
If I’m looking and realize that you’ve got some struggles with, you know, self harming or you know, negative coping skills, I’ll look at motivational interviewing strategies. Like I will adjust because I’ve kind of worked with these different things and, and it evolves as our relationship evolves. I pull different things into the relationship and apply them really specifically, but that’s hard to get to the place of being able to do a lot of therapists will say, well, I have an eclectic view and that means you use multiple modalities.
You really want to kind of get to a place where you kind of [00:27:00] get precise and what it is that
Neil Robinson: you talked about. It’s like when a therapist starts, you should really Focus on one particular one really understand it before you before you move to your next.
Chris Gazdik: Well, that was a debate that we had I think you should John said about that because that always bothered me.
I never liked that Neil Newfield if you remember in college Maintained that that’s the way you do it. I always did I
Neil Robinson: think if you’re gonna do it cuz like even coming from technology background, you know for myself like I could go windows I could go Mac and going really trying to straddle both at the same time.
You can learn it, but either you’re not going to be as good at both or it’s going to take you longer to grow. So I think in therapy, that’s the same idea. You would pick one, maybe a second modality, and then you’d basically really hone in and then you move to the next one, you hone in on that one. So, but I think the key to this and we can move to the next, cause I know we’re time we’re running short.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. My eyes just went, I
Neil Robinson: think it’s important for people to understand. It’s not just some people sit on the couch talking to you. [00:28:00] There’s so much behind what a therapist and counselor does. And so that’s what I really want people to see through this. There’s a lot of stuff, a lot of science that you guys go through.
I mean, there’s
Chris Gazdik: constructivist therapy. There’s story writing that goes into constructiveness therapy. There’s ACT therapy. That’s new. There’s behavioral therapy. There’s Reiki therapy. There’s energy type forms. There’s gestalt therapy. I mean, there’s so much Adam. So what do you think? First of all, did we deal with your skepticism a little bit?
Curious with art therapy.
Adam Cloninger: Not completely, cause let me get what’s Got your brain working a little bit though? Let me just say it real briefly. To me, it’s like people talk about dreams. Oh, well you dreamed this. You must have an issue with this. I don’t buy that at all. Somebody says, oh, well you dreamed about a butterfly.
This is gonna happen. No, you don’t know. Yeah, dreams are a little different. And that’s why I was concerned about the art thing.
Neil Robinson: Well, there’s a skill and a way that you do it. It’s very purposeful in how you do art. It’s not just give you a canvas and paint and be done with it. There’s actually, and that’s why it’s impressive, is that there’s actually [00:29:00] exercises you do that Had you do something for a certain reason and there’s reason stuff behind it.
So while you think of art therapy, like, yeah, you can just draw on a notepad. No, there’s actually a lot to it to direct you towards there. There’s more, well,
Adam Cloninger: I, I just meant if they say, oh, well you’re using a lot of red today, that means it’s not, I, I, no, it’s, it’s a lot more in depth than that. That it’s a lot
Chris Gazdik: more, I guessing that as a matter of fact, there’s even a psychological testing tool.
There are, you know, several, many. A hundred or so more of psychological tests that are developed, well researched, very science based, and you’ll simply draw a picture of a, what is it, person? I think it’s person, house, tree. Anyway, my old colleague used this stuff a lot, and what you draw, whether you have fruit on the tree, whether the tree has roots, whether the house has windows, or more windows, or more windows, You know, a chimney, those things actually have clinical significance.
[00:30:00] Adam, because it’s been well researched with thousands of people that have drawn these pictures and that we’re able to extrapolate what goes on in the human mind, what we’re talking about is a lot of the subconsciousness, a lot of the underpinnings that we behave on, but we have behavior and have never connected it to what.
These things actually are able to connect the dots a little bit. Dreams are a little bit different. I don’t have time to go into that. But, that’s a little bit different. So, yeah, anyway, cool. So Adam, what do you think? Should I pick a therapist by looking for a certain type of therapy? I mean, I would do
Adam Cloninger: it.
Chris Gazdik: You would? Yeah.
Neil Robinson: He Googles everything, of course he would. Yeah. He’d probably find a quiz. What kind of therapy works good for me? Ha ha ha.
Chris Gazdik: Well, okay. I’m skeptical as well in return, Adam. Why would you try to find a therapist based on a particular modality?
Adam Cloninger: So like I said, the same way I have a lawyer. If I’m going to have a certain, you know, real estate issue, I’m going to try to find a real estate lawyer.
It [00:31:00] may be the same thing for a therapist. If I had trouble with drugs, I’d be finding a substance abuse therapist. Okay, that’s different, and that’s an awesome transition. So, I mean, why would I not do it for anything, no matter what one of the 30 types you have? So
Chris Gazdik: you’re wanting I got all choked up.
Adam Cloninger: Am I misunderstanding your question?
Chris Gazdik: Maybe. Okay. What you’re talking about is you, you’re thinking about the issue that I have and the therapist specializing in that issue. But we’re talking about the therapy modality that that therapist uses to work with your issue. Like, I don’t think you’re going to have the ability of thinking about the 50 different modalities.
Because I don’t know what they are. You don’t
Adam Cloninger: know what they are. Okay.
Chris Gazdik: But you want to know the therapist can help you with your issue, right? So that’s it. I can
Adam Cloninger: see somebody looking up for that.
Chris Gazdik: Right, right Because my message are two in addition to the one that you came up with Adam [00:32:00] or Neil to really know What we want to get across one is No, you really don’t need to worry about what therapy modality your therapist uses.
It’s much more, Neal, what you were talking about. Trust and rapport, and are they gonna be able to help me. But the other real big thing that comes out of this show that I really thought was cool. What did I miss? What do you got?
Adam Cloninger: Not going to go to just anyone for sex therapy. Find a specialized therapist.
Okay. Well, there are people who said that.
Chris Gazdik: Julie. Oh, okay. He’s
Neil Robinson: getting
Chris Gazdik: texted.
Neil Robinson: Yeah, that was just an example. This just, there are sex therapists, you know, that wasn’t on your list. It wasn’t Neil. You’re exactly correct. Sex therapy mode. Although is that a modality?
Chris Gazdik: I don’t know that that’s a mood. I don’t think that’s a modality.
Adam Cloninger: That’s curious. Say she targets sex in the same way. I did. Yeah, it’s topic oriented. I mean, obviously, it’s topic oriented. I mean, I don’t think therapists, like, you know, gives you sex therapy. Oh, they do. Oh, they do. I [00:33:00] mean
Neil Robinson: Dude, it’s funny. I get what you’re saying. I know what you’re saying, but,
Chris Gazdik: you know, I’m trying to make it serious, because we do, like, I Like talk about with men that topic it’s it’s funny.
We get into that. If it’s clinically appropriate adam Anyway, all right. The other big thing really the third is there is a great divide in our Mental health and substance abuse field that drives me nuts Therapists listen out there i’m going to make the bold statement if you don’t Don’t know about substance abuse therapy.
You owe it to your clientele to go and get training to get experience understanding substance abuse addiction related issues because so many therapists do not. Mental health therapists will say, Oh, I don’t work with substance abuse and refer or substance abuse. Therapists will say, Oh, I don’t work with mental health.
Let me refer you. And guys that just creates major blind spots. I don’t think you can adequately work with somebody if you don’t have knowledge of both, because you will see substance abuse issues [00:34:00] in your practice. And if you’re not aware of substance abuse issues, you will straight miss it. And that’s, I consider that to be a problem.
Adam Cloninger: So you’re not suggesting they don’t get referred, but you’re suggesting that everybody needs to have a little bit of knowledge of it. A
Chris Gazdik: little bit of knowledge. Yeah, you don’t specialize in it and you don’t work with it. Yeah, right. I’m fine with that. But you’ve got to get some training. I’m glad you clarified that because, but you got to get some training to know what you’re, you’re looking at.
Otherwise, you’re going to like work with an alcoholic who’s self medicating. People love to use that phrase. No, it’s addiction.
Neil Robinson: Or, or people who are in a house with someone who has substance abuse.
Chris Gazdik: Absolutely.
Neil Robinson: So sometimes it’s not the person themselves having it, but then they’re affected because someone they know.
I mean,
Chris Gazdik: it’s an issue that affects everyone. Addiction, 10 to 15 percent of our population, how many people have mental health therapy needs that have been parented by, or have a child of?
Neil Robinson: Well, I mean, you think about it, if 10 to 15 percent have an addiction, how many people are they exposed to? So now you’re looking at 30 to 40 percent of society is in some way affected by someone with an [00:35:00] addiction, right?
Easy,
Chris Gazdik: and I would say that’s a conservative estimate. Yeah, yeah,
Adam Cloninger: I
Chris Gazdik: think those numbers are going
Adam Cloninger: up.
Chris Gazdik: Way up now as well, by the way, also, it’s more of a profound issue. Okay. So that’s where we landed. All right. Ready to transition. We have plenty of time for all four shows. I said, sure we do
Neil Robinson: three, two, one go.
Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: And I’m not going to rush them guys. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll catch up as, as needed and, and, and keep playing that, that game. So where are we at episode two 79? What is sensory defensiveness? So the three questions were. What is sensory defensiveness? What causes this and what do we do about it? How do we live with it?
Neal it’s not fair to ask you, Adam Have you ever heard before you listen to all these shows because you listen to them all don’t you and you tell? All of your friends and you have subscribed to youtube and you do give I do tell people about it But yeah,
Adam Cloninger: I I think I like it. I like not hearing it until now because then you have a
Chris Gazdik: I understand.
But guys, that’s your [00:36:00] job. That’s that’s every listener’s job. So do you ever heard of sensory defensiveness
Adam Cloninger: Nope.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, no idea. Neil, what stuck with you about what this is? Do you remember listening and it was, it was a show with Victoria and I, to tune you back in. This
Neil Robinson: month was really weird because it was like Victoria, John, John, like it was only one other person.
It was weird. Actually, well, and I said it before, I related a lot to this cause to half the people in my house kind of have that very similar thing. And so I think it’s interesting. So sensory defensiveness is when you’re very sensitive to outside stuff. So like if it’s someone’s touching you or noises or light or like all those sensory sensory experience basically affects you.
Now this isn’t, and because it’s like defensiveness, it’s basically, it causes. You to react in some way or another. And it’s not, this isn’t like OCD. This isn’t like this obsessive. It’s just, it’s really just a fact. Like, you know, my, my oldest kid and my wife, they [00:37:00] in the morning, my wife’s like, shh, don’t talk so loud.
Or when they get in the car, they have to turn the radio on. Cause it’s just too much stimulation coming on at one time.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. I can’t stand Chuck E. Cheese does. I took my kids there like maybe twice, because I go in there and it’s just too much for me. I, I don’t know. I, I, I get way overstimulated. So like
Adam Cloninger: crowds
Chris Gazdik: or
Adam Cloninger: Right, right.
Or something simple. Like you have to have the volume on a even number instead of odd or something. No, that,
Neil Robinson: that’s a little, that’s a, that’s a weird thing.
Chris Gazdik: Well, no, it’s an OCD thing. Yeah, that’s OCD. This is really your sense of touch. Smell sight hearing those the five senses taste Too
Adam Cloninger: much noise going on too much light overstimulate.
Okay,
Chris Gazdik: too bright too loud The tags on people’s shirts, you know drive kids crazy, right? So they have to cut them off you find a lot of this with adhd You find a lot a lot a lot of this with things like [00:38:00] autism or down kids special needs those developmental Kind of troubles that people have have a lot of this sensory defensiveness But to your point Neil the thing that I think we kind of got to in that show a little bit is This is way more common that you would think like I said, I can’t stand going to Chuck E.
Cheese my buddy Aaron he knows this we would go over to his house and hit every freaking toy made noise when his kids were little It drove me nuts like i’ll be like looking at my wife like it’s time to go right like we
Neil Robinson: gotta go
Chris Gazdik: Too much like this freaking gun
Neil Robinson: It
Chris Gazdik: was like
Neil Robinson: I can’t stand this anymore.
Chris Gazdik: Right. Okay. Clearly I have some auditory. Well, the
Neil Robinson: funny part with my household is because my, my oldest does have like, there’s certain things like taste palettes touching, like he gets overwhelmed. Like he’s always blowing his nose or cleaning his ear up, blah, blah, blah. But he whistles constantly and it [00:39:00] drives my wife nuts because legitimately he’ll whistle.
My wife will yell at him half a second later, he’ll go like, Oh, sorry, he goes right back to whistling. Like it’s so, but so it’s just funny the differences in sensory defensiveness between my wife and the noise and my kid and all the other stuff. Right. Yeah. And so, yeah, it’s, I
Chris Gazdik: had a kazoo when I was a kid, you know, the little, the little musical instrument.
Loved that thing
Neil Robinson: your mom did not see it got gone
Chris Gazdik: Sure you did I think she took it at him she may have I think she took it because it was driving her crazy Played that kazoo like constantly man. I was like, oh And I
Neil Robinson: think that’s something that And I, in the example you talked about, you had that guy who thought he was introverted.
No, he just really didn’t like being in crowds. Right? So you start finding out, Oh, here’s why I don’t like being going to parties. Let [00:40:00] me slow that
Chris Gazdik: down, Neil, because, because you’re absolutely right. Like one of the things that I really made. a point with this show is, is, is that experience with that particular person.
So there’s a lot of normal as with most things in there, there are continuums, right? So there’s a lot of normal experience with this sensory defensiveness with any one of those defensive people. Experiences, but when it rises to a clinical issue, you’ve got to understand this is really disruptive. Okay, it’s like nails on a chalkboard kind of experience for somebody that really gets the sensory defensive experiences.
This is why autistic kids will lose their shit when they get into a situation where the noises are too loud. They will hit, they will get become violent. Because they just can’t stand it. Their experience is so disruptive. It’s so uncomfortable for them. Very uncomfortable. It’s not even a near enough strong word, right?
Is what I’m trying to lay out here. So this [00:41:00] person I was working with wondered if he had social phobia because he would avoid parties, he would avoid events. He wouldn’t go to things. Then he thought he had ADHD because he was just scattered with his thinking and couldn’t. Understand what was going on. I worked with him for a very long time and something wasn’t matching in my mind What’s happening and what he was experiencing and I really have no idea how we fell onto it But I brought this up and we explored it for a session I didn’t think much of it because it was just a little bit of a stab in the dark Which therapists listening that happens all the time when you’re working with people People explore the full person, explore the full experiences because you will come across things that you never dreamed was going on for this person.
So he came back to me and he was like, dude, he’s like, I looked into this. I can’t believe it. I think this, this is something I’ve been dealing with my whole life. And I’m like, wow. Because as you started to describe Neil, yeah, he thought he was [00:42:00] phobic. He thought that he was like having anxiety problems and all it was.
He put on some muffed ears. And he tells his wife, when he has too much, he goes out and he takes breaks from the event. Cause now he knows what’s going on his whole life. And he completely can engage with people again. It was a, it was a big deal. That was a big deal for his revelation and his exploring of that.
And we identified it. So very, very helpful to, to, to look at this. Make sense? Questions in your head? Buzzing around? Buzzing. Did you know this was common?
Adam Cloninger: To a certain extent, yeah.
Neil Robinson: Do you have anything that drives you crazy?
Adam Cloninger: I have been in the past, on occasion, I’ve like been really stressed out.
Like being somewhere where there’s too many people there, like, how can I say this? Impeding my flow of what I need to do. It’s like [00:43:00] I start freaking out. It’s like I just
Chris Gazdik: Routines are gone or what do you mean?
Adam Cloninger: Well like I can tell you I can tell you like the last time happened to me the walmart super center thing and they used to have it, you know, the aisles are like The super center, is that what you’re called?
Where they had the, the little small one? Small, the neighborhood. The neighborhood. One neighborhood. Okay. The neighborhood. Oh yeah, the, the marketplace. So the aisles are real small and I was there one time and everybody else was there when I was there. And they’re out with these, these hand jacks to, they’re like hand trucks or whatever you call ’em, and they.
Chris Gazdik: Stalking.
Adam Cloninger: They’re stalking everything. You, you come down one aisle and somebody, and you, and I remember, I, I remember to be
Chris Gazdik: clear, they’re not stalking you. They’re stalking the shelves, stocking the shelves.
Adam Cloninger: So I, I, I remember like freaking out and just like, you know, just, I remember going through checkout, through self checkout and just like to the point where I, I just, I just about put everything down.
To get out. And just walked out. Cause [00:44:00] like,
Chris Gazdik: I just. Too much.
Adam Cloninger: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: I never really thought about that. You, is a, I’ve never come across what you’ve just described with sensory defensiveness being spatial orientation. And I’m totally sure that that’s something people experience.
Adam Cloninger: That happens to me occasionally, but it’s not always.
Chris Gazdik: That’s interesting. I thought you were going somewhere else with like, you know, something different with like routines and patterns that you don’t like being disrupted, but no, you’re talking about distance proxemics between you and the person in
Adam Cloninger: space. Well, not so much that, because I mean, like, I can be in a crowd, but if I’m trying to do something and I can’t because it’s kind of like traffic.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah,
Adam Cloninger: road rage. Traffic drives you crazy. Absolutely. You’re, I need to get from here to there, but there’s all these idiots that’s in my way or in the left hand lane or whatever, you know, or the morons that block you know, block intersections when they’re supposed to wait their turn.
Chris Gazdik: Do it right and get off my lawn!
Sorry.
Neil Robinson: No, that’s [00:45:00] actually, I mean, that’s an interesting thing because yeah, it’s not only just the, the fact that you’re getting blocked, it’s like you said, it’s, it’s stopping you from getting to that, that accomplishing that task.
Right. Yeah. So it’s not only the fact that it’s small aisles and stuff, but it’s because it’s small aisles stuff’s in the way you can’t push your cart through.
You can’t do your
Adam Cloninger: stuff. You can’t, you’re being prevented from doing what you need to do. It’s just, so the
Neil Robinson: question is, which, which sense is that? Is that your sense of time? Is that where your sense of. Sense of purpose, like, I thought you said spatial almost, or, No, because I’m, I can be in the crowd, But it’s not really claustrophobic, like, it’s not a claustrophobic, it’s just, that in itself is like, I don’t know, that’s a weird one, It’s the
Adam Cloninger: same thing as traffic, same thing,
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, it’s interesting, I don’t know, it’s, I don’t know, I’m gonna move on, because it’s, it’s something I need to think about, spatial, purpose, is there cognitive sensitivities, I don’t, I don’t know, it feels like that’s, Maybe in the ballpark with sensory defensiveness.
Maybe not. I’m not sure.
Adam Cloninger: Chris, can we think about this?
Chris Gazdik: I am. I’ll be, I’ll be [00:46:00] watching Pittsburgh Pirates tonight thinking, what
Neil Robinson: was that he said? I hope he’s not.
Chris Gazdik: No, I will not. I promise. So we, we finished up talking about this on how do you manage it? And I mentioned a couple of things anyway, so Parents, if you got kids that’s there, you know, there’s, there’s itchy sweaters that kids get real defensive with the tags I mentioned.
So you can do some things like softer clothing. You take breaks when you need breaks from the stimulus. Schools have this stuff happen a lot with kids that are trying to learn and get real disrupted. Their disobedience, their disruption in the classroom might be because is, you know, they’re, they’re seeing too much and they need to be in the.
front or they’re hearing too much. And so you can do music at parties, you know, put your earbuds in and you hear just your music. And so you, you’re
canceling out a lot of stuff. So there’s, there’s some real functional behavioral things that you can do also to begin to [00:47:00] repair this, because we can repair some of this occupational therapists kind of have this much more than, than we do.
They will do like brushes. And all kinds of amazing things with like balls and rubbing. Trichotillomania, pulling out hair, is really disruptive. That’s sort of sensory prone. You know, you do hair brushing, you, you can do holding ice cubes to, to, to feel something else and get away from what your senses are bothering you.
So, there’s a lot there that we do to actually repair some of this with occupational therapy or cope with it with behavioral strategies and whatnot. Sensory defensiveness, Adam, it’s a thing. I believe it. Also, I’ll transition with YouTube comment says, Art therapy is wonderful for people. It works!
Exclamation point. Just saying.
Adam Cloninger: Good for you.
Chris Gazdik: The listening audience knows. Alright, we have time for one more show, not the [00:48:00] last one, which is okay. Where is it on my thing? Okay. How does mental health slash therapy affect emotional intelligence? Episode two 80. The three questions. What is emotional intelligence?
Can we learn emotional intelligence or is it more of the nature versus nurture on the nurturing learning side? And can emotional intelligence be diminished or destroyed? I don’t know. I guess this is another one. We had weird shows where. Heavy clinical talk this month. I think I just want to go to your nonclinical brains again.
Like Adam, do you know what emotional intelligence? Never heard
Adam Cloninger: it until a while ago when he mentioned never
Chris Gazdik: have never heard it.
Adam Cloninger: Really? That’s
Chris Gazdik: surprising, man. You’re getting your head blown today. Sensory defensiveness art. I gotta leave now, man. He’s got to go. He’s got to get out of here. He’s
Neil Robinson: overstimulated.
Chris Gazdik: All right. Well, that surprises me actually never heard of emotional intelligence.
Neil Robinson: Okay.
Chris Gazdik: [00:49:00] Neil, what was it in your mind that we talked about that, you know, in emotional EI to be, this was another John and Chris show. We were geeking out a little bit on this one too.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. It’s funny. The ones that you guys geeked out on the one that, that Victoria had, I feel like you almost planned it because sensory defensiveness kind of fits.
I thought so it did a little bit but dang she didn’t even have any I think she started out the show She was like sensory defensive. Well, she did talk about the one thing that bothered her with the whole smelling like burning rubber and stuff Cuz of all that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, cuz of all the car accidents she had I’m like how many freaking car accidents did you have?
Chris Gazdik: That was it which was a good point trauma can create some of these defensiveness. So
Neil Robinson: emotional intelligence is really how How well can you handle and manage your emotions? I mean, that’s really what it boils down to. I mean, to me, that that’s, you know, being aware of, okay, I’m having these issues or I’m feeling these things.
And then, you know, and then you know how to handle it and, or you, you know, your emotions take over and then you don’t know how to handle it. Right. In my head, that’s emotional intelligence. I’m
Adam Cloninger: thinking you called it something else another [00:50:00] time, but it’s the same thing.
Chris Gazdik: Ooh, I don’t know what that would have been.
Emotional intelligence is similar to like first of all. IQ intelligence quotient but I may have said something about personality inventories Which is which are all three different things
Adam Cloninger: because this this this does maybe I just forgot because it does sound familiar Now he’s talking about it.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Okay. Well Yeah, I mean you’re kind of on point neil I think as usual The ability to recognize understand and manage our own emotions as well as recognize understand and influence the emotions of others Which is an interesting component. It isn’t diabolical. We’re not saying emotional intelligence is a thing thing that we can measure and know.
And that means you’re diabolically more able to control or manipulate others. That’s, that’s actually, John made the point. I think when we were talking about this, if you have high emotional intelligence, you’re also going to be highly correlated to connecting with others, caring about others and managing and effective and nice ways, the, the [00:51:00] emotion, but, but you do have influence over people the way that they feel.
Adam Cloninger: So do you know anybody that’s an emotional moron? I
Neil Robinson: know a lot of people who are emotional morons. I am going to purposely
Chris Gazdik: not answer that question. Yes! Oh God, how deep do I go on that? What do you want to know? Hehehehe How far do you want to go? We’ll talk after the show. Okay. We’ll talk after the show.
So, can you learn EI? Can you learn emotional intelligence? IQ, people are more familiar with, that’s literally studied and you can do IQ tests with psychologists. Like, we have well refined research and science about that. And the answer with intelligence quotient, your IQ, is no, you really can’t learn it.
It’s much more on the nature side. But what would you think, maybe it’s obvious, about emotional intelligence.
Neil Robinson: I know [00:52:00] the answer to this one.
Chris Gazdik: You’re supposed to go, ooh,
Neil Robinson: ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Go ahead. Yeah. You can learn emotional intelligence. I think so. I think you can, too. I mean, it’s the growth of Of a person. You know, when you look at you get in situations where you overreact, you don’t want to handle it well, then you get smacked by somebody who was, Oh, I need to change.
And then you slowly start changing again, because you know that, Oh, I need to handle this better. And so there’s this constant growth that a human goes through. Then emotional intelligence is just that, that growth, that adaptability. We
Chris Gazdik: could call it maturity. But hold on, not so fast. I’ve been thinking about this since we did the show, to be honest with you.
So, cause I didn’t really know that these were out there, but we do have tests for this. So. We have an emotional quotient inventory. We have something called a May Salvo, a Caruso [00:53:00] EI test. We have emotional and social competency inventory, trait EI questionnaire, and we have a workplace emotional intelligence profile.
So. It’s true, unbeknownst previously to me, that you can go to psych testing, which is a whole major science area. They do diagnostic psychological testing, like we were talking about with the person tree drawing. And these are, these are, he has a high internal and external validity and objectivity factors that, that, that testers can go into that.
So I was thinking, Neil, if you can measure this stuff in inventories and testing and whatnot, there are. A lot more than we probably previously realized or even currently know that is on the nature side of this. And if you think about it, there are people that are really wired to be very concrete. Very black and white thinkers not analytical.
[00:54:00] Conversely to that, there are people that have high insight or high levels of intuitive ability. Like I can look at you and your body position, Adam, and intuit intuitively interpret what it is that. You might be feeling, you know, like you look mad right now, but I know that’s not the way you feel so I can intuitively Maybe you need to
Adam Cloninger: work on this Chris My skills suck in this
Chris Gazdik: area.
No, no. No, so if you think of somebody who’s autistic they biologically have incredibly low levels of ability to interpret or convey the emotional cues or the emotional content So, Neil, I think there might be a lot more nature into this, where you have arguably maybe a ceiling, or a floor, even though we do mature.
Did you catch that rhyme, Adam? Huh. That’s not bad. That’s pretty good. I don’t know if I could repeat it, but [00:55:00] What do you think about that?
Neil Robinson: I think because we kind of hit, hit this when we last talked about it, because I mean, there’s the idea that even when you look at physicality or, or you look at certain things or talents, there’s always, there’s, there’s a top and a bottom, you know, some people can draw really well, some people can’t, some people are Physical freaks of natures and they can, they can squat 500 and bench 300 without even trying, you know, and there’s, so there’s that nature side.
But then you also have the, the persistent side of, well, I can get to that 300 bench and get to that 500, but it’s not going to be easy for me. So I think emotional intelligence doesn’t come naturally, right? Cause I mean, in my household, once again, the more people have your house, you, you see the difference.
Like I look at my youngest and. He has no clue that he just said something to piss off his mother. He like, you know, and then my youngest, my oldest will get mad really fast. Like, so there’s that difference between reacting and all those other things. So no, I think there’s a, you’re correct. There’s a top and a [00:56:00] bottom for every person.
And I think what ends up happening is as you look at it, you either have to learn to add more logic to it. So you learn. Hey, I shouldn’t do that. So it goes from emotional to logical, or you just basically say, I don’t care. And you just stay who you are, but it is, people have to work hard. I think that you’re right.
People have to work harder because of the nature they have to actually build emotional intelligence if they want to.
Chris Gazdik: And, and honestly, yeah, absolutely. You know, as I was listening to you, my brain was going on a little journey with people that do have special needs children, you know, day. We’ll tell you, I think.
I’m not, I don’t specialize or work a lot with developmental delays. It’s always been a bit of a weakness of mine, but parents will tell you with special needs children or children with special needs. I want to say that. Yeah, makes
Neil Robinson: you do it right. Yeah. The person first.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, because they are just a person and they do grow.
Parents will tell you they see development happening with even people that are severely autistic or severely like, [00:57:00] you know, down syndrome and, and, and delayed developmentally, they begin to interpret. They begin to convey like a parent will know what, It’s kind of like a baby who hasn’t started to talk yet.
Parents really begin to discern a different type of cry for, I’m wet, versus a cry for, I’m hungry, or a cry for, I want attention. Those are very, very different. Conveyance of emotion that develop severely developmental delay people will do. So there is a learning that goes into this, but I’ve never really thought of the floor ceiling, you know, I think that’s yeah, that, that, that happens.
Neil Robinson: Well, I, I think there are certain, like I said, there’s certain people that they’re never going to get social awareness. Like they can try and they can try to do that, but they just won’t ever get it. I’m working on my youngest for that right now. There’s been many times when he’s like, he just misses it.
Like, dude, you got to get out of your head. You’re missing. Like that girl likes you. Like, come on, come on, open your eyes. You know? So, so I think there is a, there is certain things that some people just get to a certain point. And they’re like, I can’t get further than that. [00:58:00] I can’t, I, I just can’t, I can’t manage those emotions or it’s really hard for me.
So 90 percent of the time I’m, I might be able to get there, but that other 10, I just can’t do it. Like it gets to that point. There’s no
Chris Gazdik: limits. So we’re going to do how do you develop. Emotional intelligence. And I have a little bit of a quick list, but before you tune out, I wanted to make sure that we hear that Cass is piling onto you, Adam.
Oh boy. She’s she’s piling out. She says your painting of your mower is almost like art therapy. Your satisfaction with what you did is significant.
Adam Cloninger: Well, I can see that my, my, my issue is with the therapists, like. Interpreting what I’m, how I’m painting my lawnmower as to, Ooh, you painted that green awfully angry, so you must have anger issues.
That, that Did you put it in the video? And that, and that, and that, don’t get me wrong, I have, I have no idea what it’s about. I’m just saying, I’m a little skeptical. If I knew more about it, maybe I wouldn’t be. I’m just a little skeptical. All
Chris Gazdik: the art therapists out there, I am going to fire you. forward.
Anything [00:59:00] you give to me to give to him. So I will flood him with all of your quandaries, questions and curiosities and concerns.
Adam Cloninger: I’m just saying if I draw something and I use a different color or I have bigger roots on a tree, they’re not going to be able to tell me, Oh, well you got bigger roots in the tree that you’re,
Chris Gazdik: All mean stuff, Adam.
Our psychology is day to day, in moment to moment, always with us. And it does show. Alright, you wanna know how to build emotional intelligence? Yes, please tell me. Alright. You practice mindfulness practices. You can track emotional realities. Journaling is You know, as you said, Neil, this is, this is really like, you know, another question of, you know, how do you manage emotion?
How do you understand and recognize and manage what it is that you’re feeling? So you can answer that with all the ways that we develop lists with this. Building through hard trials and empathy and social skills. We didn’t cover this last question as well. You know, Can emotional intelligence be diminished or destroyed?
And that’s a big [01:00:00] yes, because traumatic life events will really, really put people in a, in a hole and your ability to manage the way you feel gets like,
Neil Robinson: I mean, there’s people that will get abused, get, you know, taking advantage of over and over again. They finally get to the point like I ain’t going to take this anymore.
And they’re just like, screw it. I’m not, I’m not going to be emotionally intelligent anymore. I’m going to be emotional moron and just deal with that. You know, I’ve coined a new term.
Chris Gazdik: That’s a, that’s a different kind of problem. Learning active listening skills, actually studying, how do we communicate better?
Learning specific ways to manage conflict goal setting and then practicing setting these goals, anxiety, breaking things down to small pieces. Depression. This is just a brainstorm that I came across with avoiding isolation. That’s being purposeful. That helps your emotional intelligence. Learning regulation skills with people with bipolar or personality disorders.
How do you regulate your emotions? Learning The four sections of my first book. [01:01:00] This is a shameless plug, isn’t it? It’s terrible. Emotional intelligence. Surprise. You’re not
Adam Cloninger: holding the book. The
Chris Gazdik: four components. It’s way far out of my reach.
Adam Cloninger: It would match your shirt to the new
Chris Gazdik: book. No, no, no. The new one would.
We’re talking about the old one. Ah, sorry. Yeah. I have a green shirt on for those listening. The audio version. All right. Seriously. The, the, the, the, the book that I did through therapist, I was re understanding your emotion to becoming your best self. I whittled that down to four. Sections that each chapter kind of seemed to fit in for the most part.
And I thought that’s really cool because it’s really about how to manage emotions. The whole book synthesized down to four sections, which were one, valuing yourself to focus points, like what you’re focusing on three action points, how you make decisions in an execute actions. And then for stopping yourself From moving forward and reflecting on what it is that you’re feeling.
Like those are four areas that I think really build your [01:02:00] emotional intelligence levels. So pretty, pretty cool. Shameless plug through a therapist size. Go get it. Amazon calm, closing thoughts, comments. I think we got to get out of here. Moved fast today. Hopefully, hope you followed us pretty good.
Closing thoughts, comments,
Neil Robinson: Emotional intelligence. You have to work on it and you have to know you need to work on it. Cause that’s not something you just get. Like you said, the most of the points that you had were learn this, learn this, learn this. You sometimes if you are on the low side of the emotional intelligence, it is going to take some extra effort.
And sometimes you have to, I think active listening is a very important key because when you don’t have it and you find out your partner or your friends or your siblings or coworkers come back and say, Hey, You kind of act like a jerk or you act like this, you need to take that. Well, I mean, you do.
That’s the thing is like a great way to find out how well you do is you listen to people and you find out, Oh, maybe I do have to work on certain things or certain skills. And sometimes it does. I joked about getting smacked, but sometimes it is that part where you, [01:03:00] you, you get to a certain point where it takes something that traumatic for you to realize, Oh, maybe I need to work on my people skills.
Chris Gazdik: You grow the most when you hurt the most. So when you are in those situations, it really is. That’s why I used to love chronic or a crisis work. I did a mobile crisis team I’ve mentioned on the show lots of times. And you are right there in the moment with those moments with a great opportunity to, to make massive change and grow.
So that’s totally true. What
Neil Robinson: about you, Adam? How do you want to close it?
Adam Cloninger: I just want to give a caution to people. Parents, as far as we were talking about the, the sensitivity thing about sensory defense. Yeah. I want to caution them not to try taking too much away for their kid. Cause they have to be exposed to things to be able to deal with things too.
Neil Robinson: Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: that’s a really good point. And it’s a, it’s a really balancing point though, because with common sensory [01:04:00] defensiveness. Experiences. Yeah, absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. But at the same time Adam when you’ve got clinical levels You can’t just take that away It’s it’s such a it’s such a challenge because people don’t understand that that’s there and they’ll blame the kid Like what the heck’s wrong with you, dude, Johnny Would you not just put the shirt on stop bitching and complaining about the shirt?
But what you got to realize is that’s just not something that you can cope with. That’s like sitting there saying, you know, you got tinnitus. You know what tinnitus is, right? Don’t worry about that. Just disregard the sound in your ear. No, it’s maddening. So, but your point is well taken because we do need to kind of work with decreasing your reactiveness to that.
Adam Cloninger: Not just cut it off.
Chris Gazdik: Not just cut it off. Yeah. So, so it’s really a balancing point when, when you have somebody that’s autistic and they’re. Defensiveness [01:05:00] is raging and you’re going to put them in a loud room with people
and just say, Oh, kid, deal with it. You know, they need to be able to deal with people, dude, it’s way too much for that person to handle.
So,
Neil Robinson: but, but I, I think it goes back to his day. And when you look at kind of the, the standard practice of that kid who doesn’t like that one shirt, cause the tag it’s like, and you’re out and about, it’s like, okay, you don’t have this issue. It’s not a wise person, not clinical. Just deal with it. Like you said, they learn to cope.
Chris Gazdik: Well usually, all three of us were able to find something that bothers us, and we learned how to cope with it. I could actually stay at Adam’s house for more than an hour. Not Adam, Aaron, get that, get the A’s. But let’s,
Neil Robinson: we’ll take you to Chuck E. Cheese.
Chris Gazdik: See how that goes. No, I’m not going there. No, we’re not.
That’s, that’s too much. See, that’s, that’s just not fair. So
Neil Robinson: you’ll never take the grandkids when you have grandkids to Chuck E. Cheese?
Chris Gazdik: Oh, I didn’t really think about that. Yes, I definitely will. If Chuck E. Cheese is still around. Just take
Neil Robinson: him for a, take him for a hike instead. Nature’s just as, [01:06:00] nature’s just as good as Chuck E.
Cheese.
Chris Gazdik: There’s plenty of things that I could do with them. Not take them to Chuck E. Cheese. But if I need to for their birthday once, I will do that. All right. Listen, we’re going to get out of here. We have landed in August. It is burning up in climate here in the North Carolina area. We will be getting out of this summer soon.
Today is the hall of fame game football. Football season starts. Very exciting time of year. Don’t roll your eyes at me, Mr. Robinson. I just
Neil Robinson: realized I got all the fantasy football stuff that’s about to start. That’s right. And I was like, crap. That’s right. It’s coming. I ain’t got time for that.
Chris Gazdik: Fantasy football.
Yes, you do. You’re in. And it’s going to be fun. Listen, take care. We’ll see you soon. Stay well. See you next week.