Ever felt the crushing weight of saying “yes” when every part of you screamed “no”? You’re not alone. In this episode, we unravel the tangled web of why so many of us struggle to set boundaries. From people-pleasing tendencies and cultural conditioning to the guilt and anxiety that keeps us stuck, we explore why saying “no” can feel impossible—and why it doesn’t have to be. With powerful self-reflection questions and practical tips, we’ll show you how to flip the script, embrace your inner “no,” and reclaim your time and energy. Discover how setting boundaries isn’t just about protecting yourself—it’s about unlocking confidence, better relationships, and a more joyful life. If you’re ready to stop drowning in “yes” and start living for yourself, this episode is your lifeline.
Tune in to see Why Can’t Some People Just Say NO Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- When was the last time I wanted to say “no” but said “yes” instead? What was I feeling at that moment?
- Do I fear the consequences of setting boundaries, such as disappointing or upsetting others?
- How has my inability to say “no” affected my stress levels and overall happiness?
Links referenced during the show:
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/relationshiptoothers
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/marriageandfamily
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
Audio Podcast Version Only
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Episode #290 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] This is through a therapist’s eyes on October the 3rd. On October 3rd,
Victoria Pendergrass: he asked me what day it was. I told him it was October 3rd.
Chris Gazdik: When did I ask you what day it was? No, okay.
Victoria Pendergrass: It’s
Chris Gazdik: amazing. Alright, you are interrupting the intro. That is Victoria Pendergrass. Hi guys. Who is with us.
Victoria Pendergrass: And this
Chris Gazdik: is Through a Therapist’s Eyes where you get insights from a panel of therapists in your car or personal time at home, but not being the delivery of therapy services in any way.
We’re going to be talking about the word no a lot today because the topic of episode 290 is why can’t some people just say no? And it’s actually a client question. So. Is it? It is. Love it. It is. I, I just decided, and I was thinking about it Wednesday when I do show prep yesterday. And I’m just going to ask my person and she came up with it.
I’m like, you know what? That’s banging. Yeah. So thank you for that. We’re going to be talking about that. The three questions that we want to [00:01:00] ponder while we’re going through the show today is when was the last time that you wanted to say no, but said yes instead. And what were you feeling at that moment?
Secondly, do I fear the consequences of setting boundaries? Such as disappointing or upsetting others. And then, how has my inability to say no affected my stress levels and overall happiness? Now before you tell me through the microphones that you have no problem with this, I’m going to submit to you that it’s a pretty universal thing.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Fair.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Fair.
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, something I would probably say I struggle with as well.
Chris Gazdik: I really, I think that we all do on some level because we don’t want to have the blowback, the conflict, the upset, the disappoint, the frustration. Having to explain ourselves. Discussion. Blah, blah, blah. Right, so I was just like, yes, we’ll just say yes.
It’s a, it’s a common strategy and, and, but that can get out of, it could get really out of whack.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. So, subscribe. Click [00:02:00] your job if you like our content to help us out. Since
Victoria Pendergrass: John is not here, I will cover for him and I will say that if you, you’re gonna give us five stars. If you’re not gonna give us five stars, then just don’t write us, like, just go do that somewhere else.
You know what?
Chris Gazdik: You even had the John Paws after that. That was pretty well done. Yeah? Thanks. Yeah, that was pretty well done.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: five stars. Contact at 3therapistsize. com is the way you email us and we will respond and check this all out with you. Apple, iTunes, let you write reviews. It really helps us.
Please. Well, and
Victoria Pendergrass: also, I think it’s fun for us to read how other people, like, feelings that they get from This is the human emotional. Reading our podcast from hearing our podcast.
Chris Gazdik: It’s because this is the human emotional experience which we do endeavor to figure out together. Let’s launch. Current events though, first.
Okay. Boy, we’ve got a lot going on in the world.
Victoria Pendergrass: Oh yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Still, and.
Victoria Pendergrass: This is a little close to [00:03:00] home.
Chris Gazdik: It rails. Very
Victoria Pendergrass: personal.
Chris Gazdik: In my brain a little bit that. We speak about mental health, at least in our culture in the States, maybe not around the world, but I suspect it’s very similar around the world because of all the stigmas and stereotypes that we have about mental health and people that struggle with mental health and substance abuse.
And, you know, we have a mass shooting. We just love to talk about all the maniacs and crazy people that we have a mental health crisis, right? You and I know that mental health patients are not dangerous. They’re very rarely, you know, engaged in even criminal activity. Maybe not substance abuse, but you know, we literally, yeah, we just talked
Victoria Pendergrass: about the same thing.
Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: So where is all the discussion about the mental health realities? With all of these people that are going through this horrible, horrible, [00:04:00] flooding, devastation, death.
Victoria Pendergrass: It’s,
Chris Gazdik: it’s, I, I’m, all of my clients are talking about it. All of my people are affected in many ways. We have families that live in the mountains and some of the stories that I heard will just tear your heart out.
It’s so horrible.
Victoria Pendergrass: So I’ll step in and just clarify for those of you who may not know we are based in North Carolina and this past weekend look, I might cry. It might be hard to talk about this, but this past weekend Hurricane Helene hit Western North Carolina and absolutely Devastated like I mean we are talking like entire towns Have now been washed away and literally literally do not exist anymore or like like chimney rock is now in Lake Lure, which is a neighbor like a lake that’s part of the town Like it’s there is no more chimney rock like it does [00:05:00] not exist anymore because it’s been wiped away and I Think and it’s not just the big cities like Asheville and Boone and Black Mountain, but like a lot of Smaller towns have also like Oh like bridges gone Roads complete like I saw a video the other day that this GPS was telling this guy to turn left And he was like I can’t turn left because there is no road there anymore because it’s been washed away And so, so many people are secluded, so many people are still missing, people don’t have homes, people, and it’s, it’s hitting very, I mean, surrounding, places in Tennessee and in South Carolina have also been, and in, like, some parts of Virginia have also been very hit very badly, but North, Western North Carolina, Virginia.
Has been extremely impacted and I don’t [00:06:00] know if the mental health aspect of it has been brought up. Now I’ve, I along with you, have talked about it with basically every client I’ve had this week. I’ve maybe had one or two where it didn’t come up.
Chris Gazdik: People have literally watched people be washed away from their home.
Like, there’s story after story that people are starting to share about. You know, the devastation and the grief, it’s not even grief yet, because it’s just, people are looking for airdrops to survive, they cannot leave their homes. Like, at all. It would be a many days long hike to simply be able to see another human being.
That’s, that’s the level of, of, of rural, that’s the level of, it’s just bad. Look, we need to step in. This is one of the people, one of the times when When really around the world, if you, if you are thinking like the, the, the western mountain region needs our help, they need to know that they’re not [00:07:00] alone.
You know, somebody was telling me that their aunt was living there and they were able to get on the phone and Actually, finally, three days later and they said, look, we just need to have a conversation with some human being that can tell us that the world is still out there like they are alone.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: It’s, it’s, it’s just, it’s devastating and so, I, you know, I, I want the mental health components of trauma and isolation and devastation and basic survival needs, you know, we’re on suddenly Maslow’s bottom level of, of needs in a very, very real way and it’s not had. Yeah. So.
Victoria Pendergrass: The good thing though is. I see, is the people of Appalachia, which is the area, the Appalachian Mountains, the people of Appalachia.
Part of the area, I gotta say,
Chris Gazdik: West Virginia has Appalachian culture also. But,
Victoria Pendergrass: part of that is people, sorry if I’m yelling, okay, people are very resourceful. Who live up in [00:08:00] the mountains because a lot of the times like Chris said like they’re very secluded Like there are people that move to the mountains so that they can unplug so that they don’t have to be with in big cities and with the main part of civilization and so like it’s it’s Like, it’s a lot and I think that they are very resourceful and so they do have that thing going for them is that was very community driven and do think that in these times, like, that’s who we have to lean on is the community and the support because we literally, like, Your house could have been washed.
Like, people don’t even have a place to like, shelter.
Chris Gazdik: Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: So.
Chris Gazdik: So we’ll move on. It’s just, it’s tough and I want people to be very aware of and sensitive to the trauma effects and, you know, [00:09:00] all of the children who are going to be struggling. This is, this is a, a lifetime trauma event that, that all, all All of the people in the Western Mountains and surrounding areas of North Carolina are, are affected by it.
There isn’t a man, woman, or child that isn’t now engaged in trauma. That’s, guys, that’s millions of people. It’s, it’s, it’s millions of people. I mean, I don’t know the population size of Asheville. Yeah, we don’t know the exact numbers. But it’s huge. So let’s be with them in prayer. If you’re a praying person, let’s be them with money.
If you’re a giving person, let’s be with them in Facebook and encouragement, because that is a way that you can engage with people now. And that is a benefit
because they just need to know normal talk. They need to know people are there, but they need to know that people see them because they feel isolated, alone, invisible, [00:10:00] and in pain.
And it’s a terrible, terrible way to be. Alright, let’s move on to brighter topics and cooler days because we’re in fall, October. Have you had a pumpkin latte yet?
Victoria Pendergrass: I don’t really drink those anymore.
Chris Gazdik: Ouch.
Victoria Pendergrass: I haven’t had a PSL in a long time. You can answer these questions
Chris Gazdik: if you want to or if not, that’s fine.
When was the last time you, Victoria, Wanted to say no, but said yes instead. What was the feeling at that moment? We do that with our kids all the time. Right. As I
Victoria Pendergrass: say, I probably did that earlier today.
Chris Gazdik: Right. It’s a tough thing. You think that this doesn’t affect you. And I’m going to say that you are missing the point because this is a human.
emotional experience. Victoria, did you fear the consequences of setting boundaries such as disappointing the kiddo, the hubby, or upsetting others in some sort of way? I mean, that’s a pretty common experience.
Victoria Pendergrass: [00:11:00] Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: And lastly, I’m gonna ask you how Has your inability to say no at times affected your stress levels and overall happiness?
This can be a rough thing Lots of resentments get born from this. Yeah, lots of hurts get created with this Lots of frustration gets You know, act it out with this.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: It’s a lot. It
Victoria Pendergrass: can be.
Chris Gazdik: So why, oh, why, dear Victoria, why answer this question? Is this the case? Let’s take a deep dive on some of the things like why do some people contribute?
Yeah. But in, can’t say no. But in general, what do you think off the top of your head? You know, the first thing that’s really,
Victoria Pendergrass: that comes to my mind is fights into people. People pleasing.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Is the whole like, I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna be a disappointment, I don’t wanna let people down. So therefore, I need to say yes.
I need to, like, do whatever it is, whatever it [00:12:00] is they’re asking of me.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Whether it’s reasonable or not.
Chris Gazdik: Dang it, I forget the phrase. That’s the way my brain works. No does what, Neil, to yes? I didn’t say it out loud in here, did I? Yes, I did. Come on, help me retrieve it. No, supports yes. No, sustains yes. I mean, I say
Victoria Pendergrass: no is a complete sentence.
Chris Gazdik: I know you have your phrase. I say, say yes when you mean yes and say no when you mean no, but we have a colleague that expressed no. Dang it. What is it?
Victoria Pendergrass: Don’t think about it. It’ll come to you.
Chris Gazdik: All right. Later on.
Victoria Pendergrass: We’ll we’ll circle back around.
Chris Gazdik: I think this is a big psychological issue. The tale of two tapes.
Genetic realities affect us a lot with mental health. The no is really what you’ve learned, what your culture has taught you, the permission that you receive in life through [00:13:00] teaching. You know, some people don’t learn how to do this. Aren’t told that it’s okay. They haven’t been given permission and they have been told they’re bad if they say no.
I mean, there’s a lot of messages that come at people. So this to me is a subconscious reality that you fall into.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, I would definitely say that a lot of times it is learned behavior that we don’t realize we’re learning. Right, exactly. And so we end up in therapy at 30 or something. And years ago we
Chris Gazdik: learned that that’s implicit bias.
Yes. We have an implicit nature here. We are picking up information from people. You know, what happens when I say to you, Victoria, yes, I will get you coffee?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yay, it makes you smile. She
Chris Gazdik: smiles. She did it. And what happens when you guys say, No, Victoria, I do not want to go get coffee.
Victoria Pendergrass: Fine, I’ll get frowny
Chris Gazdik: face and a voice tone.
I don’t want to get frowny face, voice tone, or scorned. Are you sure? You’re
Victoria Pendergrass: already [00:14:00] going to the kitchen.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, or guilt tripped. Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, there’s a lot there that goes into this. We are learning all the time Whether we realize it or not because we we have pleasure centers in our brain that fire off when people are happy with us
Victoria Pendergrass: people pleasing
Chris Gazdik: people pleasing but there’s a biological reality you get oxytocin and endorphins when you’re pleasing to other people and they give you that wonderful smile and appreciation and you receive Adulation and gratitude
Victoria Pendergrass: Especially if that’s like a love language for you.
Chris Gazdik: Oh boy, that’s true. Go with that, because that’s an area I didn’t think about.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, if your love language is words of affirmation, or like gosh, they’re like all Well,
Chris Gazdik: acts of service. Or
Victoria Pendergrass: acts of service, that’s what I mean. Like yeah, then either having someone do things for you is going to help, is going to like make you [00:15:00] feel all goody goody inside or What’d I say?
Or the opposite of other people doing things for you. What did I say first? You doing things for other people or other people doing things for you? Both ways. All of it. Sorry, didn’t turn it on. Yeah, but like both of those are gonna Depending on what, if that’s like a big love language for you, then
Chris Gazdik: So, honestly, this phrase occurs to me, Victoria, listening to you.
Part of the reason why we have a hard time saying no is because we have a great time saying yes.
Victoria Pendergrass: Oh, for sure!
Chris Gazdik: Right? Which, this is when she clicked in my brain, you know, with no
Victoria Pendergrass: The whole, it’s the whole, I think it’s also like the whole FOMO thing. You know
Chris Gazdik: what that is? Yeah, go ahead. Fear of missing out.
Victoria Pendergrass: Fear of missing out. Is that if I say no, then I’ll miss out on this fun opportunity with my friends or I’ll miss out on this great core memory or experience with whatever and instead, I said, I said [00:16:00] no and now I,
Chris Gazdik: I’m not a part of the group no more. Yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: now I’m experiencing it from what’s been post, yeah, what’s been posted on social media rather than getting like the real life, I’m gonna get a reputation.
Yeah. Yeah
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, there’s a big community and we’re not gonna
Victoria Pendergrass: ask victoria anymore because she always says no,
Chris Gazdik: right? There is that we’re not
Victoria Pendergrass: even gonna ask her We’re not even gonna like see if she wants to come do this thing with us because out she always says no So we’re just gonna assume that she’ll continue to say no
Chris Gazdik: and that and I
Victoria Pendergrass: don’t want to miss out on that
Chris Gazdik: So i’m gonna say
Victoria Pendergrass: yes
Chris Gazdik: Right There’s so many layers of this.
I I hope that you’re getting listening you the listener here are hearing You Are somewhat random but depthy Psychological dynamics to demonstrate for you that hopefully you didn’t tune out thinking Oh that doesn’t affect me because i’m gonna maintain that it absolutely does affect you and you might not even be aware in a depthy Way how [00:17:00] and in how many ways but let me do a switch over.
Let me do the last segment first that I think Right. Let’s go crazy. How can this new ability to say yes When you mean yes and no, when you mean no, but how can this new ability to say no, absolutely help you. Okay. Better mental health. Better relationships based on a different respect of your time and energy and effor
More time for self care and self interest and personal growth. Increased self esteem. Confidence grows. You can then really actually enjoy helping people. Because this is the next time when you’re more
Victoria Pendergrass: mindful about, when you say yes, yes,
Chris Gazdik: you get increased grace from other people and more importantly, from and for yourself, you can be graceful.
I mean, you know, being able to say no allows you to say yes.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, yeah,
Chris Gazdik: if you can’t say no, you can’t really say yes. [00:18:00] And, and mean it. And, and be genuine with it.
Victoria Pendergrass: Because I was just going to say, if I know, like if I have to come to you and ask for a favor, and I know that you usually, you have a good sense on saying yes and when to say no, then I feel like I’m going to feel a little bit more special or appreciative.
When, okay, Chris agreed to do this for me. He doesn’t agree to do this for a lot of people. Like, I’m gonna feel a little bit more grateful and thankful and like, Yeah, of like, okay, well he’s choosing to take the time out of his day to do this thing for me because I know that he wants to. Because I know that he actually I’m talking about you in the third person, but I am here.
He’s actually like, you know, he said yes because he can really meant it. Yeah. And that he’s not just saying yes to like place a placate. You ever get a
Chris Gazdik: yes response and you’re totally placating. How do you feel when somebody’s like, yeah, I’ll get you a cup of coffee, Victoria. [00:19:00]
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, then I get all passive aggressive.
No, fine. I’ll get it myself. Then you don’t have to get it. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. You could just say no if you want to. I do that.
Chris Gazdik: I see how you think about me.
Victoria Pendergrass: Like, you could have just said no if you really don’t want to.
Chris Gazdik: Right? Husbands and wives get into this. Oh, I can imagine you saying that to Josh. Yeah.
That’s been said. Her face is dirty colors. Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s horrible to receive yes when the person doesn’t really mean it. It’s belittling almost.
Victoria Pendergrass: And it’s especially You’re okay. Especially depending on like, what the specific situation is. You know, that you might be asking, that they might be saying yes to.
Chris Gazdik: Mm hmm.
Victoria Pendergrass: You know,
Chris Gazdik: okay, let’s go through the list of why this is the case that is so hard to say no and the ones that We’ve already hit let’s just move on.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: but I want to take a dive on these things because it’s we got lists But they are they [00:20:00] mean something Having a fear of disappointing others we talked about fear of conflict How many people have a fear of conflict on some level?
Her arms are in the air. Her head is back. Are we split screen today? Are we? Eyes are wide open. Are we what?
Victoria Pendergrass: I said, are we split screen today? Like, on the thing? Or is he bouncing back and forth? Because then nobody just saw my grand arm gesture. Fear of conflict, Victoria. So, recently, look, just because I’ve been saying it this week, you know how I love this.
is, I’ve recently been saying, like, instead of using the word conflict or, like, confrontation, to use the phrase, like, addressing the issue.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, I like that. I love that. That’s a good, that’s a good reframe. Because I talk about
Victoria Pendergrass: that, like, conflict and confrontation have such, like, negative connotations towards them.
It’s, you know, like we’re like yelling, we’re screaming, we’re blaming, we’re pointing our fingers, we’re like guilt tripping, we’re doing all [00:21:00] these negative things. But to me, this might be more personally, but like the phrase addressing an issue says like, okay, we’re going to calmly as adults, like sit down, we’re going to talk about this.
We’re going to come to like an agreement. We’re going to come to,
Chris Gazdik: instead of conflict resolution, we’re doing issue resolving.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. Addressing the issue.
Chris Gazdik: I’ve been doing this for 25 years doing therapy. Look, should
Victoria Pendergrass: I do
Chris Gazdik: like a whole Victoria, I really want to ask you a question. Can I ask you a question?
Victoria Pendergrass: Sure.
Chris Gazdik: Can I please use this?
Victoria Pendergrass: Sure, yeah. Thank you so much. As long as you credit me.
Chris Gazdik: Every time?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. That’s
Chris Gazdik: gonna be a thousand times in the next year. I have to say, Victoria taught me that we’re not doing conflict resolution, we are resolving an issue.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, okay. Every time though? I have to say that?
Victoria Pendergrass: No.
Chris Gazdik: Just maybe 10 times?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, maybe just the first couple times. First couple times? At least, you know. For a week? Pat my ego for a little bit. For a week.
Chris Gazdik: Really, seriously, that is awesome. That is
Victoria Pendergrass: awesome. But I [00:22:00] do agree that, like, the fear of the negative connotations of addressing an issue or conflict is, like, I can’t say no.
Because then they’re going to ask me why I’m saying no. And then if they don’t like why I’m saying no, they’re going to yell at me. Or they’re gonna like start an argument and it’s gonna be a problem
Chris Gazdik: And engulfment people would be so concerned if I say no somebody’s they’re gonna run me over It’s gonna be a long conversation.
Hell no abandonment people. If I say no, they’re definitely Out of the group I’m not going to be like, yeah, these are powerful things and I’m building this up. These are all layers. Like it isn’t like some of these things affect you listening. These all have elements. And so when you really get into this, why this was an awesome client question for us to process, because there are so many layers and angles that this really affects you because it’s in you.
If you think it’s not by the end of the show, you really need to be able to have the [00:23:00] questions, you know, what’s going on? When was the last time you wanted to say no, but said, yes, that happened probably this week for all of us in some mild way. Do you fear the consequences of setting boundaries such as these things that we’re talking about?
You know, disappointing, upsetting others, what have you, people pleasing, you know, fears, you know, how has your inability To say no affected your stress levels and overall happiness because another angle of it’s we were talking about this, but I Want to stay on it just a little bit longer because the culture that we’re in the family Dynamics the smile that you get when you say yes the frown when you get when you say no, that’s culture
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, and it’s all around you when we get to our next
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, it’s all around you all the time.
There’s great pressure from people. Well,
Victoria Pendergrass: and that goes into the next one. Desire for approval and acceptance. Okay. Yeah. Which we kind of already talked about. And we talked about that. Then we have like cultural and family conditioning. [00:24:00] Familial conditioning. I was gonna talk about that is a lot of times, depending on your culture, and depending on how you view
Chris Gazdik: Italian,
Victoria Pendergrass: well, Hungarian, I’m not gonna say anything specifically, but depending on how you view your elders, like, we, you know, we do what they say, we don’t push back, we don’t talk back, we don’t say no, and so then that’s like, when that’s what you’re raised in.
Then that’s all you know.
Chris Gazdik: Hard to overcome. And
Victoria Pendergrass: then, you sometimes, until you’re, you know, an adult yourself, you don’t realize, I could have said no all these years to certain things. Like, Mama
Chris Gazdik: gave me the stink eye every time I said no. I ain’t doing that.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: I got spankings from daddy and he didn’t like my answers and usually it was when I wouldn’t do something.
I don’t want that. Those are powerfully ingrained. Or we were
Victoria Pendergrass: taught that we respect our elders and part of respecting our elders means that we don’t say no to them. Respect means [00:25:00] yes.
Chris Gazdik: Disrespect means no. Oh my God. That’s a good one too. I mean, honestly, as I’m talking about all these particulars, it’s, it’s dawning on me and so usually when I’m sitting with a client and we’re talking about their circumstances and stuff, I got the story and I know them and I’m working with them and I pinpoint it to, you know, kind of what’s going on and we work on that and that builds up our abilities, but I’m, I’m realizing literally with this conversation, how deep this goes, I don’t think I realized that.
Even in my show prep of the dynamic nature that this really hits people.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: And it’s chronic. And it stays with you until you purposely reframe your brain and retrain what it is that you know is norm and learn actively doing a learning of how to say no. I mean, that sounds crazy, but that’s, that’s very true.
Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Keep going.
Chris Gazdik: Low self esteem is one we haven’t talked about yet. [00:26:00] People pleasing we did. Low self esteem, boy, that’s huge. Both, right? Low self esteem, low self worth, when you feel guilty, all of those things work together. When you’re down,
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. I do think there is a, a level of confidence that has to be had for some people to say no.
Like they have to, like you have to have, You have to have some form
of, or level of confidence in order to be able to say no. High level, low
Chris Gazdik: level, or medium? I
Victoria Pendergrass: would say at least, like, a low to medium level. Because A lot of times you have to be willing to, not saying that you have to explain why you’re saying no, but a lot of times you have to have that confidence to be able to back it up and to stick [00:27:00] with it and to say, if I’m saying no, I’m sticking with no, and I’m not, you know, if you put a little pressure on me, then I’ll say yes.
No. Like, I mean no. I’m saying no. I have to have that confidence to stick with it and to be able to say like, even if I’m not giving an explanation of why I’m saying no, because an explanation is not always needed, then I’m still sticking to it and I’m having the confidence that I, my own like mental health is, Taking priority here or whatever You know, you know i’m listening to you
Chris Gazdik: and I think you’re really on point.
It’s another angle I mean this this is such a dynamic thing that as we’re talking about it My brain is like just firing buzzing and firing and moving Because i’m wondering and I never because I never really thought of this as well but i’m
listening to you and i’m considering like Is it fair to say that if you do have a hard time saying no?[00:28:00]
One of the first things that you Probably want to look at and for us therapists when we see that with codependence or you know Any level of we’ll talk about enmeshment and some other dynamics Should we just point ourselves to assess confidence first? And I think that’s probably true Yeah, because you’re right.
You have to have a level high enough not terribly high Right high enough to withstand that that pressure and
Victoria Pendergrass: the pushback. Yeah, I
Chris Gazdik: Because you’re going to get blowback sometimes and that’s crushing. So you have to have a certain amount of risk tolerance
Victoria Pendergrass: with
Chris Gazdik: this skill. Right. And if you don’t have this skill, we probably need to go backwards, start at a root and look at the forgiven or the the confidence level and move that dial.
And, and just almost switch our target first. So we don’t even work on this skill until we have worked on confidence a little bit. I think [00:29:00] that’s so profound of a factor in why it’s hard to say no, that that might need to switch our thinking.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: You know, clinical direction. No, I totally,
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, I’ve never thought of that.
Anxiety is the same and guilt and all that. Need to fit in and be liked by others. We talked about inability to express emotional experiences. Hmm. It’s a tough one.
Victoria Pendergrass: Inability to express emotional experiences. If I say yes Is that why we Why, so why it’s hard for us to say no is because we have this inability to express emotional Yes, think about it.
If we say yes, it doesn’t
Chris Gazdik: really indicate anything other than I’m well, I’m happy, I’m on board, I’m agreeable, I’m cool. Okay, I
Victoria Pendergrass: get where you’re going with that.
Chris Gazdik: If I say no,
Victoria Pendergrass: not only
Chris Gazdik: am I none of those things, I’m something that you place on me.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, I’m also showing a level of vulnerability because I’m, she’s incredibly vulnerable because I’m saying I don’t think I’m at a place where I can do this for you.[00:30:00]
Like if I am. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Sorry.
Chris Gazdik: It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s really daunting to be emotionally vulnerable. We all can agree to that when you’re taking a risk of upsetting people and all these other things that we’re talking about.
Victoria Pendergrass: Mm-Hmm. ,
Chris Gazdik: that vulnerability gets higher. When you’re pleasing people and saying yes, Okay.
Yeah, I wasn’t really sure what you meant by that
Victoria Pendergrass: statement at first, but I get, I get where you’re, where you’re going now.
Chris Gazdik: Guilt and resentments will completely crush your ability to stand grounded in your own two feet and hold to a boundary of no. Guilt and resentments destroy that. And so when you’re feeling guilty about something, I was too hard on my kid for his grades.
Daddy, can we get chocolate ice cream? Sure. Sure. For dinner? Yeah. You want Coke with it and we’ll have [00:31:00] floats for dinner? Sure. Because I feel like I screwed your day up. So I want to do whatever it takes to make sure that you are well. You’re upbeat. I didn’t create your destruction, huh?
Victoria Pendergrass: Then that goes back to codependence.
Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: codependence is all over this episode. Purposely not going too far into it because we’ve talked about
Victoria Pendergrass: that.
Chris Gazdik: Inability to be emotional is huge. And there’s resentments and guilt. And a lot of those things sets up for the next thing that I listed on our brainstorm, which is feeling stuck and controlled.
And
Victoria Pendergrass: Like feeling like you have to say yes,
Chris Gazdik: if I’m yeah If I’m in a space where you’re gonna give me a frowny face if I don’t get you a cup of coffee Then I’m gonna say yes, and I’m gonna develop resentments, and I’m also gonna feel like I’m controlled by you It’s a manipulative ploy that Victoria just did to me to go get [00:32:00] coffee now.
That’s Arguably more of an engulfment stance position
Victoria Pendergrass: There was this trend going around on TikTok that I saw where it was like, I mean, it was totally set, but where like the guy would leave his phone in the kitchen and then the girl sitting next to each other on the couch would text him or text him and say, Hey, can you get me some water?
But he would have to get up because he heard his phone go off. And then when he. He would go to his phone in the kitchen and then she would be like, Oh yeah, while you’re up, can you get me a bottle of water? Like purposely making him get up to like go to the kitchen and then being like, Oh yeah. Can you grab me some like chips on your way?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Now I can add on. Cause you know, it was just right.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. His human
Chris Gazdik: behavior is so Yeah, we could do a comedy show with it because human behavior kind of, it’s, it’s [00:33:00] predictable and it gets into this. So you know, look, clinical terms, we mentioned codependency. I mean, we’ve talked about it on the show before.
If you are in a space where you are happy when the other person is happy and when you’re sad when the other person is sad or you know, when the other person’s not well, you’re not well, you become what the other person is. So your goal is to make them well in order for you to be well. And that’s, that’s just, we’ve talked about code.
It’s a huge. It’s a loud element in this topic today. You
Victoria Pendergrass: can go back to our past podcast episodes on Codependency if you want to learn more.
Chris Gazdik: Enmeshment is an interesting term, though. Why don’t you take enmeshment? Do you think about enmeshment much?
Victoria Pendergrass: I don’t necessarily address it as much in my sessions, so you take this one.
I’m passing the ball back to you.
Chris Gazdik: It’s a clinical issue that really drives a stake. In the heart of the ability to say no, because [00:34:00] we have closeness and distance. You’re either too distant or too close. We’re never right on the button, right? So folks that are too close are really prone to being. Too close.
Too, too close. And we want to call that enmeshment. So I always think of, when I think of the term enmeshment, the church experience that I had one day. Sitting in church and there was a lady in front of me to my right, you know, with a clearly single mom, or at least for the day, maybe the husband wasn’t there, but there was a teenage kid sitting with him and the mom, for the
Victoria Pendergrass: entire service, was sitting there rubbing his back, rubbing his back, Oh
Chris
You can tell the kid is sitting there like, Oh my god, stop touching me. And the mom just continues to rub his back. And
Victoria Pendergrass: you just want to lean forward and be like, excuse me ma’am, can you stop rubbing your son’s back?
Chris Gazdik: Please. It’s weird.
Victoria Pendergrass: Like, I’m uncomfortable watching it. Right? I can tell that your kid is uncomfortable.
It’s too
Chris Gazdik: close. It’s [00:35:00] too close. There were no boundaries. So people get this way when my life is my wife. One of the title chapters in my book, which by the way,
Victoria Pendergrass: coming out
Chris Gazdik: December, Through a Therapist’s Eyes. Is that the
Victoria Pendergrass: whole like, happy wife, happy life, all the whole thing? It is
Chris Gazdik: that phrase, I’ve said it before.
It’s one of my favorite titles in my new book. You know, your wife, share your life with your wife, but your wife cannot be your life. If your wife is your life, or your husband is your life, it just doesn’t rhyme as well and sound as cool, then it’s a problem. It’s a prob you’re too close. It is possible to be too close.
We call that enmeshment. So that’s a clinical term. Boundary development and no longer referred to as what I have written, but rather, we are resolving an issue. Right? Conflict resolution. Addressing issues. for
Victoria Pendergrass: joining us.
Chris Gazdik: We’re addressing issues. So what’s the impact? You get burned out, guys. You get stressed.
Specifically
Victoria Pendergrass: emotional burnt out. Not like
Chris Gazdik: Fair. Go ahead.
Victoria Pendergrass: I wouldn’t say necessarily you get like physically burnt out. Although you might if you’re saying yes to do a whole bunch [00:36:00] of physical things. I
Chris Gazdik: think you do.
Victoria Pendergrass: But I think the main thing that we want to address here is that it’s emotional burnt out.
Chris Gazdik: Fair, but it
Victoria Pendergrass: is like you’re
Chris Gazdik: tired and exhausting and it’s, it’s, it’s a lot. Yeah. It’s a lot. So we need to struggle with, with that and be careful because, you know, You will get burned out. You will lose boundaries. You will increase your stress and anxiety. This is important because you will do damage to your relationships.
You will literally damage the people that you care about by. inability to say no. That sounds crazy, but it’s so true. Your kids can’t live in a cultural environment called the family when the alcoholic dad will never allow people to speak their mind because you get crushed whenever you do. So I can’t say no, I’m just gonna avoid that crap out of this and stay at my friend’s house as much as I can.
This manifests all of this, right? [00:37:00] Suppressed
Victoria Pendergrass: emotions.
Chris Gazdik: Developing all kinds of resentments. You know, these are, these are the impacts. But I want to be quick with that. We want to get to the next one. Because we want to spend a lot of time on how can we really learn this, okay? Let’s really settle into these because I think people really need to understand the dynamics of how depthy this is and now we need to understand the dynamics of how to get out of this trap.
Victoria Pendergrass: Right. Right.
Chris Gazdik: You have complete agency in your life. You are empowered to be and do what you want to be. We all are just as human beings. We don’t feel that way. A lot of the times. We feel stuck a lot of times, but we’re really not. So we want to reframe your beliefs. How do we reframe something that you didn’t even know was an implicit [00:38:00] bias and gears you towards saying yes when you don’t mean yes?
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, one, I would say we do the work to uncover Those beliefs
Chris Gazdik: you have to develop the insight. Yeah, this is the self
Victoria Pendergrass: awareness The light bulb needs to go off.
Chris Gazdik: I love that your head victoria insight is a great place to start with But then
Victoria Pendergrass: and then from there you can kind of create a game plan for like how we’re going to Move forward and like I always tell my clients is we’re not trying to overwhelm ourselves It’s okay to just pick one.
Like, it’s just okay to pick one thing, and address that one thing, and then move on.
Chris Gazdik: But let’s stay on this, because what beliefs do you maybe have that you need to change? That you need to reframe? Right. That you need to rewire? That you need to rethink? [00:39:00] And these are beliefs that we, we talked about some of them, I think.
Well, so,
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah, I mean, like, it could be like, if I say no, I’m gonna lose this friendship. Well, just because you say no, doesn’t mean If it’s a solid friendship, you’re not gonna lose a friendship just because you say no to one thing.
Chris Gazdik: I can hear you thinking when Victoria says, I’m gonna catch you now. I can hear you thinking, well, I’m not afraid of losing a friend.
That doesn’t affect me. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! This is embedded. It is baked into your subconscious knowledge. Even of wanting a smiley face instead of a frowny face. And you believe you’re going to get a frowny face when you say no. Now you don’t think that!
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, that’s not the thought that runs
Chris Gazdik: through So, I love that, Victoria.
You’re absolutely on point, and I hope you realize, like, insight about these things. I really believe. I love that you said that because I really, I, I want to write a [00:40:00] model of therapy based on insight. I really do. Well, and
Victoria Pendergrass: I think this is when we incorporate things like journaling, or how you document it.
Like, as you realize it, we’re writing it down so that we can have like a physical thing to look at. And it used to like address things
Chris Gazdik: So you have to have insight to be able to reframe this and that really requires a lot of meditative exploration You need to realize that it is baked in and how did it get there?
Yeah, so sometimes backtracking
Victoria Pendergrass: and tracing where it came from
Chris Gazdik: think about your primary relationships Yeah, think about fundamental experiences that you’ve had in life Those two things are going to be major drivers in what you will find. And assume when you’re looking that they’re there, because I’m sure they are.
I have no doubt about you listening, you have this. We want to root it out. Some have it a lot worse than others. There’s obviously a continuum here.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. [00:41:00] Yeah, for sure.
Chris Gazdik: So, setting boundaries, define limits, starting with a non threatening situation, finding an excuse to say no, You know, you get better at this by doing it.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, and I literally just told someone earlier today, right before we did this, Okay. that saying no, or setting up, specifically, I said, setting up a boundary does not require you to give an excuse of why you’re setting the boundary. You can set a boundary and just set a boundary.
Chris Gazdik: Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: You don’t have to explain why.
Chris Gazdik: Go ahead.
Victoria Pendergrass: But that’s, I think, the same thing with no. Okay. Like you can just say no, and you don’t have to make an excuse for why you’re saying no. Oh, yeah, because it was specifically, I remember, specifically, it was this person, she’s about to go on a business like a work trip and sometimes she doesn’t want to go out with her co workers, but she feels like she [00:42:00] has to and I said, if you don’t want to go out with them, you can just say like, I’m not gonna go out with y’all.
Like, you don’t.
Chris Gazdik: People feel cultural social pressure.
Victoria Pendergrass: What, but like, I think her, I, the thing I made a point is you don’t have to make an excuse of like, Oh, I have to talk to my family, or oh, I need to do this. You can just say, like, hey, not tonight.
Chris Gazdik: Did her head explode?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, maybe a little bit. Right? Yeah.
It’s like, bang, really? But I think it’s more of that, like, because even sometimes we give an excuse to, like, ease the other person’s response.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, we’re setting up
Victoria Pendergrass: and so like it
Chris Gazdik: less risky,
Victoria Pendergrass: but like I tell people all the time and I don’t know if you’re going to carry it with us or not, but like, I
Chris Gazdik: love that,
Victoria Pendergrass: but I tell my clients all the time that they are not respond that they are not responsible and they do not hold the blame and the weight for how other people respond or react to things that they do.
Chris Gazdik: That is the opposite. of enmeshment.
Victoria Pendergrass: Right.
Chris Gazdik: Right. [00:43:00]
Victoria Pendergrass: But, but that’s what we teach, that’s what I teach, and talk about, be so like if someone gets upset because you’re saying no, like that’s not That’s not on you. That’s not your responsibility to hold. Which is why I’m saying that we don’t necessarily have to give an excuse because like, you’re only giving an excuse to lessen the blow to the person that you’re saying no to.
Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: you’re preparing. It’s all, you know, pre concocted. Yeah, totally right. I mean,
I don’t know. I have so many thoughts about that, but we probably just should move on from it because you know, we get
Victoria Pendergrass: again to like many more episodes, which we have on boundaries
Chris Gazdik: for sure. Start small is something with that though. Yeah. I would say focus on that. Yeah. Okay. You know, can I get you, would you, you know, can you, can you go grab me a coffee at the store is a pretty simple thing and reasonable to say, no, I’m sorry, I don’t have time or non excuse.
Victoria Pendergrass: Right. [00:44:00]
Chris Gazdik: No, I’m unable to do that.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Sorry. That’s not going to work for me. Right? You could, you know, label it out, but it doesn’t have to be a long, and that’s pretty small. Like, the person’s gonna understand. Oh, you mean to tell me you don’t want to drive over, down, get in your car, and get out of the office, and break your train of thought, and go get me a cup?
I get it. It’s an easy no.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: You know? So, start small, and build up bigger, and
Victoria Pendergrass: Next one is my favorite.
Chris Gazdik: Alright.
Victoria Pendergrass: No is a complete sentence. It’s there. Period. I
Chris Gazdik: thought that was original to you. Somebody else must have said it.
Victoria Pendergrass: No, it’s not. I heard it from Ashley the Mary Kate, Mary Kate and Ashley, the Olsen twins, the, those siblings, and Elizabeth Olsen, they have repeatedly in interviews said that their dad taught them growing up that, like, no is a complete sentence.
Chris Gazdik: I’ve, I, I I don’t know where
Victoria Pendergrass: he got it from, but
Chris Gazdik: I, I got, I gotta say, I use other people’s phrases too. Neil, what it is, is The no serves the yes.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay, the no serves the yes. [00:45:00] That’s
Chris Gazdik: what I was struggling. Let’s make a full circle here. That’s what I was struggling to forget with my friend. That’s a t shirt by the way.
We need to get this t shirt project going, Neil. We got awesome slogans and phrases and the no serves the yes needs to be on that list. You got the list somewhere? Yes, he’s gonna put it on there. The no serves the S is an awesome statement.
Victoria Pendergrass: But yeah, no is a complete sentence. Again, I think that goes also back to like you don’t have to use an excuse or explain.
You can just say no.
Chris Gazdik: Victoria, did we do a show on what your personal needs are recently?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yes, we did.
Chris Gazdik: We did! A whole deep dive. Well listen, understand and accept your own needs is a huge part of being able to do this. Understand and accept your own needs. And if you have no idea what your own needs are, listen to the show about five weeks ago.
Okay?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. Is that how long ago it
Chris Gazdik: was? I’m actually a little bit longer. Something moves fast. Handling guilt and [00:46:00] anxiety. Yeah. You have to handle your emotional self. Reset with relationships dynamics such as the enmeshment we were talking about. So you want to reset sometimes to beat the codependence, to beat the anxiety.
Let me affirm that we’re friends, Victoria.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: We’re friends. We’re awesome colleagues. And I’m setting up, I’m resetting, even though I said no to your coffee. We’re okay here, right?
Victoria Pendergrass: Our friendship is not over.
Chris Gazdik: It’s not going to die. You’re not going
Victoria Pendergrass: to kick me out of the practice. No,
Chris Gazdik: you wouldn’t. Well, why would I kick you out if I said no to you?
But anyway.
Victoria Pendergrass: Or vice versa.
Chris Gazdik: You won’t kick me out.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: absolutely. Okay. So resets can be helpful. Saying no without an apology. That’s your phrase. You know, no is a complete sentence. I mean, I don’t
Victoria Pendergrass: really say that too much about the apology, but is a
Chris Gazdik: complete sentence. And that’s, don’t need to apologize.
Yeah. You don’t have to
Victoria Pendergrass: say, oh, I’m so sorry, but I can’t do that.
Chris Gazdik: This helps you get better at it.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Just [00:47:00] say no. No, and that’s not nancy reagan talking about drugs No, that may date you a little bit. No, I know But a little bit
Victoria Pendergrass: like I also think crap. I forgot where I was going with that. Never mind Just keep offer
Chris Gazdik: alternatives when appropriate and you are able I have no problem with that.
It’s not an excuse Hey, I can’t do it
Victoria Pendergrass: right now, but you know, maybe i’ll be running some errands a little bit later I can stop and get you some milk out and about but I can’t do it right now. It’s fine Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: but it’s still a no An alternative, by the way, is not an alternative way to say yes.
Victoria Pendergrass: Correct.
Chris Gazdik: It’s an alternative way to say no.
No, I can’t help you move, but I know you can rent a truck. Rider.
Victoria Pendergrass: Right. Okay. So yeah,
Chris Gazdik: right. So, so, you know, helping somebody, even though you can’t say yes, is a very, very reasonable thing to do. And it solidifies your ability to say, no, I don’t want to. [00:48:00]
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, and I think that goes back to the having the confidence to say what to put your have confidence.
Chris Gazdik: And that builds it, right? Honestly, you know, if you, if you figure out how to, you know, give an alternative, that, like, confidence is maybe a place to drop back to. So, I never thought of that before either, to be honest with you. If
Victoria Pendergrass: you
Chris Gazdik: have a hard time saying no, we probably want to look at what is your confidence level and target that.
Secondarily to that is this idea, go back and just, instead of saying no completely, Use alternatives. You know, Daddy, can I have chocolate floats for dinner today? I feel guilty about having gotten on to him for his grades and made him cry yesterday. So don’t want to say yes. No, son, we can’t do floats for dinner.
But we can have maybe floats for dessert. If we eat a healthy meal. It’s an alternative. But I’m still saying no to
Victoria Pendergrass: you.
Chris Gazdik: [00:49:00] And if you get it, it’s a good way to build the ability.
Victoria Pendergrass: At
Chris Gazdik: an earlier stage when you’re not able to do this very well. So, alright. Delay a response. I told you there’s so many good things here.
Jeez. If you struggle to say no, do you have to say anything right away?
Victoria Pendergrass: Let me think about it. I’ll get back to you.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. No, you don’t have to say no. Or yes, right away. How many
Victoria Pendergrass: Let me think about it. Let
Chris Gazdik: me, let me process this one. Let me get back to you. Why do we feel on the spot?
Victoria Pendergrass: Nobody’s putting you on the spot. Especially if our fear of engulfment people.
Chris Gazdik: Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: They might need.
Chris Gazdik: This is a special one for them. They might
Victoria Pendergrass: need, take a minute. Let me think about that. I’ll get back to you.
Chris Gazdik: Actually, no, I got that wrong. I think we’re opposite.
Victoria Pendergrass: Reverse.
Chris Gazdik: It’s reverse.
Victoria Pendergrass: The abandonment
Chris Gazdik: people that want to deal with the problems now and externalize their feelings [00:50:00] and emotions would really struggle with this idea that, I mean, I don’t have to say yes now or no now.
I can wait. Engulfment people, they will take their time, they will create space, and they’ll think about it. That’s their natural space. So we’re, we’re Yeah, so I’m,
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah, more of a, okay, yeah. So
Chris Gazdik: delaying your response, is it okay? It’s okay practice this Right
Victoria Pendergrass: practice makes progress.
Chris Gazdik: There was a weird training that I went to on gestalt therapy
Victoria Pendergrass: And
Chris Gazdik: I was not happy with the instructor during a very specific and particular moment.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay,
Chris Gazdik: I didn’t like it He probably saw something in me. I’m sure he did because I was very naive. It’s very young I was very green was in college and you know, these things are hard and all this is is a gestalt therapy Very here and now activity where I’m standing with my little therapy partner that day and we’re just supposed to say yes Yes, yes, and then they say yes.
Yes. Yes. Yes. [00:51:00] Yes, and then you do the no It was no no, and you’re you’re making eye contact and you’re facing this person and you’re literally just Practicing saying the word
Victoria Pendergrass: this
Chris Gazdik: Joker comes up behind me Victoria and he jumps on my case You He’s like, use energy, speak up with it, get into it. I wanted to turn around and tell him though, but what he was probably observing is I wasn’t feeling comfortable with this, Victoria.
I really didn’t feel right. When I was doing that and it made me mad that he got on to me about it, but he was observing I don’t know what I was doing. I really don’t know what he saw.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: I didn’t think anything of it at the time But I mean I’ve looked back on that moment many times over like Do I have a problem saying no sometimes?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: When I was naive er as a younger person, I would have told you, No, I don’t have any problem with this. Like you’re saying in your car. Like you’re saying at [00:52:00] home. Stop doing that. This does apply to you. Well, yeah. It’s
Victoria Pendergrass: the same reason I tell people to practice their coping skills when they’re not freaking out.
So that they’re comfortable with it. When they do freak out, they have more of a grasp on it.
Chris Gazdik: Be honest. I think you’re gonna say yes. Cause we all say yes. What happens when we talk about sex? Do we giggle? Yeah. Of course.
Victoria Pendergrass: No.
Chris Gazdik: Yes, we do. You make jokes with your friends and giggles come out when you talk about sex.
It’s just something that can happen. Sorry, I went
Victoria Pendergrass: straight to professional. No, I don’t giggle professionally. Well, professionally, I don’t
Chris Gazdik: either. Well, actually, that’s not true. I think usually we do. What I’m getting at is be aware of your emotions. Be aware of your body posture. Be aware of your non verbals.
When we speak about money. Certain somebody talks about money in our office and they get giggly when they do that, right?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: it’s not good.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, they do.
Chris Gazdik: It’s not good. It conveys a message that you do not intend to convey [00:53:00] so when you’re saying no you have to be aware of just like we talk about sex or giggling when we talk about money or Shutting down on the conversation with your husband like or even the
Victoria Pendergrass: sense of One partner wants to initiate sex, but the other partner You Feels like they have to say yes, and they can’t say not necessarily that they have to say not unlike
Chris Gazdik: feels like
Victoria Pendergrass: feels like But then like if your body language is not if they say yes like to the sex But then their body language is all closed off Then, like, maybe they don’t actually feel, you know.
Chris Gazdik: Gets twisted.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Gets twisted. Learn patience, practice mindfulness, let go. We’ve talked about letting go and sticking to the decision when you made, you mentioned. But let’s talk about rely on
Victoria Pendergrass: I said the serenity prayer.
Chris Gazdik: There you go. But let’s talk about relying on others. To help you decide when you need to say no.
Victoria Pendergrass: How about that? Well, I mean, I think that goes back to delaying your responses. Like, do [00:54:00] you need to go seek some guidance on, hey, I’m not sure if I should say yes or no to this thing. Hey. Or, like,
Chris Gazdik: Neil asked me if it was okay if he moved into my house and lived with me for a little bit of time. You know what I told him?
Let me think about that. And I went home. And who do you think I talked to?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: and then I came back and told Neal, no, you’re out. No, I just made that up. Neal didn’t do that. But, right, I can’t tell you no on the spot or yes on the spot. Oftentimes, too, hey, is it okay if I take your car for a month? Mine’s gonna be in the shop and I want to drive the car around and I’m insured.
Sorry, I need
Victoria Pendergrass: to talk to my husband first to make sure we can do that.
Chris Gazdik: Right. But you might just need advice from a friend. Or support from your person or something that, you know, that gives you the confidence, you know, I got you, Victoria, you can say no. Right? I think it’s reasonable.
Victoria Pendergrass: It’s okay to [00:55:00] donate this item.
You haven’t used it in three years, Victoria. You get
Chris Gazdik: encouragement.
Victoria Pendergrass: I need someone else to tell me that it’s okay that I can say no to this thing. Yes!
Chris Gazdik: So don’t be alone. You hear us say that often times. Don’t be alone. Avoid excuses when making, you know, when the people will make for asking. You know, they don’t, I don’t matter.
That’s why you said no. I’m not important. You know, I see it and you don’t really care about me. Look, don’t buy into all that nonsense, because that’s exactly what that is, is nonsense. What’s guilt
Victoria Pendergrass: tripping? No one else will help me, will you please come help me? I’m sorry, like that’s, that’s that, I know this sounds a little, this witchy with a B, but, we say this thing now of like, that’s not my problem, that’s a you problem.
Chris Gazdik: That’s a phrase. Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: That’s a you problem. I mean, I’m sorry. Well, actually don’t do that. Don’t say you’re sorry. Sorry, not
Chris Gazdik: sorry
Victoria Pendergrass: but Like [00:56:00] that sounds like a you problem Neal’s
Neil Robinson: Neal’s coming to us Neal Remember the other day when you and I had to go pick up that workout thing that one the other day and yes my elliptical Right.
And we had that conversation with that one friend of yours that basically had the same issue. Someone was barring, asking to borrow their truck.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, right. Right. Yeah. We had a conversation and they were
Neil Robinson: like, I want to say no, but. Like, how do I say no? It was very interesting. It’s like, yeah, that becomes it’s that’s their friend’s problem, right?
Chris Gazdik: You’re so right. That’s what you said that day. Yeah, that’s what you said. Yeah, that, that’s an awesome point. We did. We, Neil and I had together, we, we were asked that question and we processed it. What do you think, what do you think was said? I
Neil Robinson: think they said no.
Chris Gazdik: Yes, they did.
Neil Robinson: Because they, and they had very legitimate reasons for it.
And, but yes, he struggled. With I don’t want to tell this person no, but yet I don’t want to say yes, right? It’s a very interesting conversation.
Chris Gazdik: It was wasn’t I didn’t thank you for that I didn’t put that together but that we that was literally in real [00:57:00] time like not more than I mean We literally had a group process about that.
Yeah, it was helpful I think for Neil and I to really affirm. Oh, absolutely like, you know Tell them to do something else, give an alternative you know, I think that was your idea, Neil. You know, it’s like, yeah, it, it is really hard to stand into the fire. If that’s the way you perceive being requests, receiving requests to say no, you, you, you feel like you’re in fire.
You feel like you’re in heat. You’re in hot water. I am burning up here. I don’t, Oh God, I don’t want to do this. I can’t just disappoint them. They’re going to be mad at me. All that stuff. All that one else. They have, yes, it’s all my fault now that they can’t move their crap across town. No, it’s not. But boy, if you don’t have confidence, Victoria, you’re dead in the water.
Yeah. You can’t even begin. Anticipate the feelings of guilt that you’re likely to have. Even a little bit. I feel guilty [00:58:00] most every time I tell my kids no. I want to say yes every kind of time.
Victoria Pendergrass: No matter why you’re saying no. I never
Chris Gazdik: really want to say no. To something that they want or something that they’re asking for.
I really don’t. I
Victoria Pendergrass: mean, it’s your kid.
Chris Gazdik: It’s my kiddo, man. Buddy, you got whatever you want. I’ll go to hell and high water to get whatever it is that you want and need, you know? I’d definitely struggle with that. We gotta get a handle on that because what’s that kid gonna believe the world’s gonna do if we teach them that?
Bend to my will.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: It won’t work. It won’t work. It’ll absolutely create so much frustration for them. So anticipate this guilt that you’re likely to have happen, as well as your own disappointment, your own anxieties, you know, your own frustration. And so when you feel anxious about this, there’s something that happens where anxiety creates anxiety.
And I call it the anxiety golden rule.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay.
Chris Gazdik: And the way that I always look at this is elevators, if you’re freaking out about going to elevators. And you don’t want to ride the [00:59:00] elevator, you can immediately decrease your anxiety tremendously by taking the stairs, which is what people usually do. And I want to go, with the flooding techniques, the golden rule is when you’re anxious about the elevators, get your butt on the elevator.
Push it. Force it. Play with yourself. Mend your feelings about it so that you can absolutely do what it is that you get anxious about. And then what happens to your long term experience of anxiety? It goes down all the way. Immediately your anxiety will rise, though. That’s something that you have to fight through.
So, the golden rule applies here when it comes to worry and disappointment, frustration, and anxiety. Look, I
Victoria Pendergrass: could give another Grey’s Anatomy example, but I’m not going to do it.
Chris Gazdik: Well, go ahead. Now you
Victoria Pendergrass: did it. Now you did it. Now you have to. It’s really kind of morbid, but there’s a shooting episode where a shooter comes into the hospital, and one of the characters, Alex, he gets shot while he’s in an elevator.
And after he recovers, like, he survives and he recovers. [01:00:00] But for a long time after he recovers, he refuses to get on an elevator. So even when they’re transporting patients different floors, he will go down the, up and down the stairs. And he’s literally running himself ragged, like running up and down the stairs, like 20 times a day, instead of taking the elevator.
So one of his mentors, Dr. Weber, takes him and he’s like, I can’t remember his exact words, but he’s like, we’re going to ride this elevator up and down until you no longer feel anxious. There you go. And he literally, like, feels anxious. forces him to ride the elevator again to where he no longer freaks out and no longer feels anxious after having this like traumatic experience.
I have literally done
Chris Gazdik: this with clients, Victoria. Really? I literally have done it with clients. Now you came at this office. You never were at our old office. Yeah, I was never at your old office. The old office that was the cool office. Totally had an elevator and we used this. Yeah. I the person would come to the session and be like, Oh, are we gonna have to ride the elevator [01:01:00] today?
Victoria Pendergrass: And you’re like, heck yeah. I’m like, well, how do you feel about
Chris Gazdik: that? Do you want to get better? And she’s like,
Victoria Pendergrass: oh, yeah but
Chris Gazdik: And I’m like, well, let’s go.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: You know. I’m not forceful about it, but, you know, in all seriousness. Yeah, we’re not
Victoria Pendergrass: like dragging people onto an elevator.
Chris Gazdik: You have to have a balance with it, but.
Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Look, you know, this is a almost universal human experience, and we really wanted to convince you to think about how does this apply to you, in what ways does this operate, because, you know, you have had times recently where you wanted to say no but said yes. You also have had consequences of setting boundaries, such as disappointing people and upsetting others.
Do you fear that? The answer is probably yes. How Has your inability to say no affected your stress levels and overall happiness? You are exhausted at the end of the day as a parent trying to say yes to whatever whimsical [01:02:00] desire as a co
Victoria Pendergrass: worker who constantly says yes to other their other fellow co workers or their boss or their whoever.
Chris Gazdik: So closing thoughts, taxing in for a landing. I think this has really hopefully given you a sense of the depthiness that this has in your
Victoria Pendergrass: subconscious. Yeah, I go back to my saying that I have in my office of practice makes progress.
Chris Gazdik: And I am going to end with the phrase that I now hopefully have committed into my memory that the know Serves the yes.
Yeah. Also no is a complete sentence. I do stick with that. More specifically to you listening, when you say no, you are serving your yes. Your yes means a lot more when you say no. You always say yes like we were talking about before. So serve yourself. Have grace. Get patience. Grow confidence. Use others.
[01:03:00] And by golly, when appropriate, serve yourself. Say the word.
Victoria Pendergrass: No.
Chris Gazdik: Cool. Listen, stay well, be well. We will see you next week. Take care.
Victoria Pendergrass: Bye
guys.