Have you ever wondered why group experiences can be so impactful for personal growth and healing? In this episode, we explore the transformative power of groups, from psychoeducational and skills-based settings to support and therapy groups. We unpack the unique benefits they offer—like fostering a sense of belonging, shared learning, and accountability—and tackle common myths, such as fears about oversharing or the belief that groups are only for severe problems. Plus, we share practical tips for making the most out of your group experience. Whether you’re seeking connection, healing, or growth, this episode will inspire you to discover the magic of community.
Tune in to see Group Experiences Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- What are my thoughts or reservations about sharing personal experiences in a group setting?
- Have I ever experienced a sense of healing or understanding from being part of a supportive group, even outside of therapy?
- What do I think I could gain from participating in a group therapy setting?
Links referenced during the show:
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/addiction
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
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Episode #296 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Through a Therapist’s Eyes, and this is November the 14th 2024. We don’t have much to go before we hit 2025, right?
Victoria Pendergrass: It’s pretty crazy.
Chris Gazdik: Holidays, as it is now, it is. So this is Through a Therapist’s Eyes. If you’re finding us for the first time we welcome you aboard. We Welcome you here.
We’re looking for YouTube on Thursdays live. If you’re hearing this on Spotify or Apple iTunes, your part in the show is giving us a thumbs up. I listened to a YouTube something two days ago or something. And I realized that I always tell people, ask people, please, we need the likes. We need the thumbs up.
We need the subscriptions, right? You know what I did? I clicked off that YouTube before I hit the like button. That’s terrible. I really liked the content.
Victoria Pendergrass: [00:01:00] Oh,
Chris Gazdik: right.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. Also liking stuff, I think it makes it easier to go back and find it.
Chris Gazdik: Does it really?
Victoria Pendergrass: I think so. Is it like, I don’t know, if you like something, does it go in your, like, profile of videos that you’ve liked?
Chris Gazdik: I don’t know. I won’t drone on too much longer, but please, five stars, reviews, help us, tell friends. We do have a new YouTube subscriber that Alex Rosenberg joined the ranks. So welcome, Alex. Glad you found us. This is where you get insights from a panel of therapists in your car or personal time at home, knowing it’s not the delivery of therapy services in any way.
We have the contact at throughatherapistseyes. com is the way to contact us and we’ll always we’ll reply to you. And the questions that we’re going to have today, hopefully I already said that we’re going to be talking about groups today. The value of groups Victoria, do you have anything bad to say at all about groups in groups?
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Victoria Pendergrass: And the [00:02:00] aspect of therapy
Chris Gazdik: concerns problem points any,
Victoria Pendergrass: You know, I can see. how other people might have some concerns about groups. I’m
Chris Gazdik: not asking other people. Mic drop. No negatives. Yeah. I
Victoria Pendergrass: would
Chris Gazdik: really wanted John to be with us because I wanted to ask him that as well and see what he feels or what he thinks.
But he had some things he had to tend to today. He is okay. Nothing wrong with John. Maybe he
Victoria Pendergrass: can join your month in review. That’s
Chris Gazdik: possible. That’d be cool. But nevertheless a little random, but okay. Sorry. So, so we don’t have John, but, but, but I, I wanted to see if any of us really had any kind of concerns because I’m not going to make any if, ands, or buts about it.
I’m going to suggest to you my particular stance on groups is that they’re fan freaking tastic and very little, if any, drawbacks that I can think about. And I’m not just talking about therapy groups. I’m talking about. Any kind of group that you might be oriented with, [00:03:00] things happen in groups that we cannot have happen alone.
And that inherently is cool. I think that’s a statement I’m going to make.
Victoria Pendergrass: Are we talking about even virtual groups like Facebook groups and things like that?
Chris Gazdik: 100%. Groups of people create great value.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: And we’ll talk about that today.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. So the
Chris Gazdik: questions are, What are your thoughts or reservations about sharing personal experiences in a group setting?
I really think that’s an important question. Have you ever experienced a sense of healing or understanding from being a part of a group? Particularly a supportive group or even especially even outside of therapy, you know I hope you’re saying yes to that question guys If you haven’t you’re isolating way too much I suspect and lastly, I know that’s a well, it’s a statement, but I I tell you last and thirdly What do you think you could gain from participating in a group therapy setting and i’ve already said i’m open you’re not saying nothing because [00:04:00] I just think they’re super powerful victoria.
Oh
Victoria Pendergrass: for sure Yeah. Well, I mean, even after what you thought of when you said outside of therapy, so my favorite podcast is true crime obsessed. I’ve probably mentioned it before,
Chris Gazdik: but they have a
Victoria Pendergrass: Facebook group that you can join and then, but it’s amazing. Like the community that is in A virtual setting and this year right the word
Chris Gazdik: community
Victoria Pendergrass: this year specifically one of the hosts went on a traveling tour And he visited different cities and what they would like meet up at Breweries and like he even came to raleigh And they like would meet up at a brewery and like friend you’re making friends like their big thing is come alone It’s okay to come alone because you can always make friends and people are all and like even just it’s so cool to just Like, I’m not really, I’m in the group, but I’m not necessarily, like, an active participant.
But it is cool to watch other, [00:05:00] I mean, people are posting about their marriages, about, like, their dogs, and about, like, all these cool things. There’s something magical
Chris Gazdik: about people coming together. There’s something
Victoria Pendergrass: powerful about
Chris Gazdik: being a part of a community. I mean, it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s, there’s a lot there.
Yeah, there’s a lot there. Okay
Victoria Pendergrass: where are we
Chris Gazdik: starting? Yeah, what, let’s focus a little bit on, on what we’re talking about in the types of groups. Now, you’d think we’re talking about just therapy groups, but we’re, we’re really not. Okay, this is not a show at all about addiction. But you know, we talk about mental health and addiction, everything through the podcast.
To demonstrate the power of how valuable groups can be, I have a colleague of mine, a high level of respect for Jeff. Jeff Shook, love you brother. He hired me for my, actually my second podcast. Big gig in the field. And then later on in our career, I hired him. So, our, [00:06:00] our careers have tracked. Yeah.
Interestingly, for a long time. He’s retired now. But I just have a high level of respect and learned so much from him. And so I value his view. And one of the things that he believes is the power of group.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay.
Chris Gazdik: Such that he will work with people that have an alcohol or drug problem. And when that is identified, he will fire you as a client.
Meaning, he doesn’t want to work with you unless you agree to be a part of a group. And he defines that. And spends a little time saying it’s not just Alcoholics Anonymous, right? We talked about that recently guys last
Victoria Pendergrass: episode know about
Chris Gazdik: that But he wants you to be a part of any type of group and he qualifies it by saying where you are specifically dealing with Our emotions and in a supportive environment, so he’s not talking about like a homeowners [00:07:00] association group Right, right.
There’s groups like that that are a little bit more superficial and and But even then when you get into a group, you could start talking about real things. Yeah, so He’s only had to fire like two or three people in his entire career So he really helps people understand the power of this The gravity of this and he helps people understand.
I know it’s so much more Ethical not ethical has so much more efficacy It’s so much more effective It’s so much more likely that you’re going to attain and maintain sobriety If you’re in a group
Victoria Pendergrass: will he take those clients back if they join a group sure
Chris Gazdik: 100
Victoria Pendergrass: That’s awesome.
Chris Gazdik: He’s only had a couple people that have absolutely refused and he’s carried that through.
What I tell people when I’m working with a substance abuse person is, I will say the same thing that he says. Yeah. But I will say I, I’ll work with you. I’ll meet you however you are. I’m not gonna fire you yet. Like I’ll, I’ll come right up to that line though and say, I’m doing a great disservice though, because if you’re not a part of a group Yeah.
We know what we [00:08:00] know. Yeah. So that’s, I think, lays out the power of, of how strong of an influence that can be.
Victoria Pendergrass: Oh, for sure. Yeah. And I think it’s. I don’t think, and we might get to this, but I think groups in general and obviously specifically geared towards mental health related things are seriously underestimated, undermined.
Like people don’t, I think people don’t people
Chris Gazdik: understand it.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. And I think that might, like, as that might be because of a lack of understanding or from the stereotypes. That people have developed about groups or whatnot, or like the fears or whatever. The
Chris Gazdik: fears, okay, the stereotypes, the myths. Yeah, the myths.
You know, there are some of those for sure. Yeah. Yeah, like, you know, it’s always driven me crazy, Victoria. I’ve never understood it from people. Like, I’ve worked in many agencies over the years. And, you know, usually you have these sort of like team building activities and whatever. I just spoke about [00:09:00] Jeff.
Victoria Pendergrass: For
Chris Gazdik: instance, Jeff was awesome about that. He actually gave up his home. He let us come to his home and he cooked us breakfast. Oh, wow. It was lovely. I mean, like, bacon and eggs and, you know, a whole real full breakfast. Yeah. And then we would do an activity or whatever and, you know, we’d talk about the unit and, you know, we’d have a meeting, I guess.
But, you know, it was mostly just fun, team building.
Victoria Pendergrass: Mm
Chris Gazdik: hmm. Do you know how many people complain about that?
Victoria Pendergrass: Like icebreakers and things like that too. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, no, I mean people hate it.
Chris Gazdik: I don’t understand that. I really don’t. I’m not working. I’m hanging out having fun. I’m a part of a group. I’m connected to these people.
I want to get along with them. But people hate the team building stuff.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay. Yes. I also do think sometimes it depends on the environment and the job.
Chris Gazdik: Fair. What do you mean? Go further. [00:10:00]
Victoria Pendergrass: I can only just think of an example. So I used to be a school based therapist in a school, right? Obviously hence school based service.
But I remember sometimes the principal of the school I was at would call staff meetings or do these types of things at the beginning of the year. And teachers would get frustrated because it would take away time from them getting their, lesson plans done and doing, you know, I think, so I think if you can do it in a manner that is works with other people’s, like things that way.
Because
Chris Gazdik: I think you’re hitting on something that, that is important. And I think it goes back to what we just said. I think people.
You, I’ve been listening to you and what that leads me to say is that people do not value that time. They value their time more to do a progress note or to do a lesson plan. Instead of valuing the, the, the [00:11:00] incredible value of us being a functional and well oiled machine working together.
Victoria Pendergrass: Do you think it also And I
Chris Gazdik: think that’s because of the confusion that people have.
Probably. And the myths and the fears, so we’re definitely going to talk about
Victoria Pendergrass: that. Yeah. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: we think
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah, I mean it could be I still also think though that you don’t need to plan a team building exercise if you’re setting a deadline for people to like have their lesson plans and, but then you’re not giving them the time to work out their lesson plans.
but Well, yeah. We would be
Chris Gazdik: reasonable of course, yes. Within reason. Yeah. But I
Victoria Pendergrass: do think that also, and I don’t know if we might get to this, but like the difference when things like that are forced or mandatory. Yeah. Force versus just highly encouraged to like, participate in, I think that also like Jeff.
Chris Gazdik: requires you to be in a group of some kind managing emotion if it’s a substance abuse therapy relationship.
Victoria Pendergrass: It’s interesting,
Chris Gazdik: right? [00:12:00]
Victoria Pendergrass: That’s,
Chris Gazdik: that’s immediately where, I think you’re right. I mean, I’m not disagreeing with you. I think you’re absolutely on point. But, He’s only had to fire three people.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, I guess in that sense, I wasn’t thinking about clients.
I was thinking about me as an employer. If my boss is saying, you have to show up to this team building exercise, I’m going to be like, Oh, yeah. Well, I, and I’m
Chris Gazdik: saying like, it’s funny because I, I value that. I think that’s fine. I don’t, I never had a problem with that, but so commonly people do. And I think there’s something about that because there’s something about like the avoidance that we have with groups, the fear that we have with groups, the vulnerability.
Which is magnified in groups, like groups are intimidating for generally for people, I think. Is that a true statement?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: I feel, I would even go far as to say sometimes they can be intimidating for the leader of the group as well, depending on their experience with groups. Yeah, fair enough. You know, if they’ve ever You know [00:13:00] Done it before or done this specific group if you’re new to it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah people wet their selves like thinking about leading stuff For sure. Yeah Oh my god What am I gonna talk about Yeah, it’s all that so Okay, what are we talking about? So there are things
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay, so we’re talking about the different types of groups. Different
Chris Gazdik: types of groups. When
Victoria Pendergrass: we say that.
Chris Gazdik: There, there are psychoeducational groups. And those are really kind of didactic, but yet you’ll discuss and you’ll talk, but you’re psychoeducational. You’re talking about psychology something generally, right?
Victoria Pendergrass: You’re typically probably not diving deep into personal experiences.
Chris Gazdik: Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: You’re, you’re mainly there to soak up information to learn about new things or understanding things.
This is where I got my start. Yeah. My 18
Chris Gazdik: hour DUI education class, remember? I’ve talked about that.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, they’re [00:14:00] probably not sharing lots of deep dark secrets. It was psychoeducational.
Chris Gazdik: We had sharing. Right. People would talk.
Victoria Pendergrass: But. I was
Chris Gazdik: a student wanting to do therapy, so I thought I facilitated crosstalk and all this.
I thought it was great. I even messed with like seating arrangements and had people facing each other and stuff, right? But it was really just psychoeducational.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, it was
Chris Gazdik: 18 hours of education About alcohol and drug troubles. So you’ll have those and those are great. It’s just a different type support groups
Victoria Pendergrass: Would you say those are the most common or the most well known That’s
Chris Gazdik: interesting.
Maybe so maybe maybe the most well known like if
Victoria Pendergrass: you say group People I think would assume like AA or support group like those are the two you’re probably right Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: and there’s other types of support like when you say group
Victoria Pendergrass: I don’t think about psychoeducational groups Like that’s not the first thing that comes to my mind.
Okay The
Chris Gazdik: the interesting thing there is Okay [00:15:00] So and that’s what we don’t have to
Victoria Pendergrass: know. It’s okay because
Chris Gazdik: I think people get confused about that What are we talking about is our second year? Right? And, and so there are different types of groups. There are different group settings and such. And so, part of that, that challenge is understanding that this is an education group.
People would, would tell me, I’m going to class. Right? They don’t, they don’t say I’m going to my education group about DUI. They’re going to class. Yeah. People love calling groups classes because it’s, I think it’s just less emotional and it’s more safer. It feels safer. Yeah. When you go to a support group.
Yeah, A, A, N, A, all the 12 steps and the support groups, but I would submit to you that a support group is a type of group where people are coming together to support each other. Well, yeah. Small groups in churches.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, that’s a support group.
Chris Gazdik: It’s a support group.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Al
Victoria Pendergrass: Anon.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, like all the 12 step stuff.
Yeah. Grief groups. Those are, that’s kind of a support [00:16:00] group. It’s not a psychoeducation group. It’s also not a therapy group.
Victoria Pendergrass: Correct.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. What’s a therapy group?
Victoria Pendergrass: So a therapy group is typically where you are. It’s more like an individual session, but with a group. So it’s more based around like that feelings and more therapy based.
I know I’m not. I see it as more of like, You have the same things that you would do in a one on one therapy session. There’s just like 10 other people. Yeah. Or whatever. It might go into our
Chris Gazdik: process oriented groups. Yeah. There’s a section, a category of that. Then there’s skills based groups. But these process oriented groups or therapy groups, yeah, it’s, you know, I’ve done a men’s group.
I’ve done groups with, I have, the teen group was amazing. They’re amazing to do teen groups.
Victoria Pendergrass: The therapy group is Hopefully, usually led by someone who is [00:17:00] credited.
Chris Gazdik: That’s a good point.
Victoria Pendergrass: Rather than group leaders, a therapist. Yeah, they know
Chris Gazdik: how to do therapeutic group
Victoria Pendergrass: or the support group like the church group.
Chris Gazdik: There are no formal. It’s just a
Victoria Pendergrass: volunteer who’s like, yeah, I’ll lead it. You know, it’s not necessarily someone. Now, it could just happen to be someone who’s also a licensed therapist. Maybe maybe. But
Chris Gazdik: no, it’s an excellent. But yes, I
Victoria Pendergrass: would say that that is a very clear. Also, I would assume that even with the psychoeducational group, there would need to be some form of education behind qualified qualifications for probably so.
I think so. I
Chris Gazdik: mean, I Psychoeducation, a little bit less or so, but the therapy process. Well, I guess it depends on
Victoria Pendergrass: what the topic is that we’re So the
Chris Gazdik: question is, you know, realize who your leader is. And that gives you a good indicator of like, okay, what type of a thing is this?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: But all of that being said, and understanding sort of what we’re talking about when we have these different types of groups.
Right. [00:18:00] It’s just people getting together, talking, and that is powerful in and of itself. Yeah. Period. Yeah. Right? All right. Okay. Think about some characteristics in the groups that you think about. You have purpose groups that are targeted. You have mastermind groups. I have, I’m in a mastermind group.
Yeah. You’re
Victoria Pendergrass: in one.
Chris Gazdik: It’s an awesome experience. It’s on calendar every, it is on my calendar. Every,
Victoria Pendergrass: every week.
Chris Gazdik: It’s a, it’s a really valuable group of men that I have lived life with for several years now.
Victoria Pendergrass: Mm-Hmm.
Chris Gazdik: powerful and, I mean, interactions. You’re committed to
Victoria Pendergrass: that. I mean, I mean, that is like.
Chris Gazdik: Same
Victoria Pendergrass: day every week.
Chris Gazdik: Best thing that ever happened in a long while. I needed that group. I mean, they have helped me tremendously. Very powerful to live life and learn about life and, you know, grow together. And, you know, we confront each other and we talk about things. It’s powerful. So, you know, you’ve got, you’ve got open groups that are just ongoing every Tuesday.
And we can start and stop at different times. There’s closed groups. Yeah. Drives me nuts that churches tend to do closed [00:19:00] groups. They start on this date, this many people, they end on this date. I hate that. Yes,
Victoria Pendergrass: and also our last episode we did clarify the difference between a therapeutic. Closed and open group and like a open closed group in general because remember I brought up that question, okay So I don’t remember Like a therapeutic closed group is you start with the same people you go six weeks you end with the same people Where is it open anyone can come in
Chris Gazdik: right
Victoria Pendergrass: but a closed like specifically we talked about like an AA meeting a closed one Is you have to like So, like, you have to sign up to, like, you have to be a part of it or a member to be in it versus an open group.
Literally, anyone can walk off the street and come join for the session. That’s so funny. I forgot about that differentiation, but yeah. Because that’s where my clinical brain goes, was like, wait, what? I was a little confused, so. That’s
Chris Gazdik: specifically about AA, though. Yeah. That’s a characteristic of an AA meeting, being open or closed.
I don’t think people generally see [00:20:00] that. Or even think about it, really. I mean, I don’t think they think about groups in those terms. Church group starts on this date and ends on that date and it’s ten sessions. Okay. Yeah. They’re not thinking that’s a closed group. Yeah. Even though that’s
Victoria Pendergrass: how we would define it.
Right. Sorry. That’s my therapeutic clinical.
Chris Gazdik: Workout groups. Those are supportive environments. Yeah. If you have a group of people. All the, all
Victoria Pendergrass: the running clubs that are like super popular right now. Right. In like different cities where a bunch of people get together. Mm
Chris Gazdik: hmm. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: And meet up at a park and we, like, go for a five mile run together and then, like, go to the bar afterwards or something, you know, like, that is a group.
Chris Gazdik: That is a functional group together and honestly, it might not meet Jeff’s requirement for substance abuse treatment because it’s not really for the purpose of going through your emotional norms. But you go through your emotional norms when you’re a part of even a running group like that. Right. Yeah.
You know, people do gyms all the time. Any trainer will tell you [00:21:00] those are powerful experiences and they will see people weeping.
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, my gym is workout classes and a lot of times I end up working out like the same people come to the same five, five 30 classes. Usually what I go to and a lot of times like it’s the same people there.
You know, every day or, you know, every Monday, it’s like the same, about the same group of people. And every like Wednesday, it’s about the same group of people. And so, yeah, you’re building this also sense of community that comes along with it.
Chris Gazdik: Interesting. As I was listening to you, the thought that popped in my head is, is this is a really cool and important topic because of the way our societies around the world are now.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: People are so isolated, feeling so lonely. Feeling disengaged with their communities, but yet we’re so interconnected with the internet and all that, that we feel like we’re seeing through Facebook and all [00:22:00] these connections. Face to face, group, hug, workout, biking, mastermind, I don’t care what it is, it’s a totally different flavor.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, I mean, and I will, not to undermine virtual, Groups because I do think sometimes for certain people they are needed and that’s what’s best for them and like they can get Like effectiveness out of it, but I would agree that there is something just different about face to face I mean, there’s a reason that even in my own personal therapy journey.
I was like My therapist offers all the time, well, we can do virtual if you want. And I’m like, no,
Chris Gazdik: really? I’m
Victoria Pendergrass: putting my foot down. I’m coming to this office. She’s putting it to you
Chris Gazdik: multiple times. She just
Victoria Pendergrass: suggested because of like scheduling issues, you know, if I can’t necessarily make it here, she’s like, well, we could, we could do virtual if you want, like, then that way we don’t have to like skip a week.
And I’m like, no, I will. Move things around on my [00:23:00] calendar so I can come see you in person
Chris Gazdik: tick my peers off when I say I think we’re getting a little So, but I mean I do
Victoria Pendergrass: I do say like yes If you’re out there and you need to do a virtual group because that’s what works best for your schedule and you know your needs By all means do it But if you can do in person, I highly recommend I would agree with you.
I highly recommend if you can do in person You Any type of group have you incorporated
Chris Gazdik: a lot of groups into your practice? over the years
Not so much.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, yes, I did a lot of groups when I was doing my My school counseling. Yeah internship and stuff. I had a lot of groups with the kiddos, which I thoroughly enjoyed which that is like I’ve never done groups with kids Kid groups are like organized chaos.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, that’s, I don’t think, that [00:24:00] sounds like horrifying to me.
You, it is not
Victoria Pendergrass: for everybody. No. It is. That’s
Chris Gazdik: not my
Victoria Pendergrass: game. It’s
Chris Gazdik: like a certain kind
Victoria Pendergrass: of person. But I think, I mean, I’ve done little things here and there. Yeah, I
Chris Gazdik: loved the teen group that I created. They had, they said some powerful things in that group, Victoria. I mean, they were just. Yeah. I walked away sometimes these young minds and what they came together and talked about was just beautiful and amazing Shocking.
Honestly. Yeah, I’ve done a men’s group and you you know, and that was back in the days where men don’t do therapy Whatever. Yeah back. So when they do this
Victoria Pendergrass: men’s group as like a Replacement for, like, Yeah, it’s gay, man, I ain’t going
Chris Gazdik: out, I ain’t talking about feelings, I’m a tough, rough guy, you know what I mean?
Dude, we get these guys that would come in this group, and this was in, like, you know, 2002, you know, so it’s been years ago when it wasn’t as normal for men to be even in therapy, and dude, the things they would come apart talking about. It was the only place in their lives.
Victoria Pendergrass: And
Chris Gazdik: they’ve told me this. The only [00:25:00] place in their lives that they can really come and speak to an entire group of people where they can get feedback and say things to other men that they never would dream of saying.
Saying outside of that group. Right. That’s a powerful gift. Yeah. All right. Have not been doing groups for a long time. It sucks. I don’t know why i’ve just
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, I need
Chris Gazdik: you will probably see me develop a group over the next year. I would love to see it It’s probably gonna happen
Victoria Pendergrass: and I think that Particularly a
Chris Gazdik: couples group
Victoria Pendergrass: If we talk about downsides, I think that The planning and prep for creating a group for the person leading the group might be one of the downsides I know we talked about like there’s not a lot but But, because I just remember being in the school system as a school based therapist and wanting to create groups, but then struggling to find, like, a time that works for [00:26:00] every kid that I want in the, or that, you know.
It’s a lot to lead. Like, a lot of schools do, like, groups of, like, divorced families or, like, you know, things like that. And so, but then finding, planning, Saying, okay, well, Ken Witten is a good time for all of us to meet and then and I know that Trent the F can transfer into like meetings for adolescents and adults and teenagers and all the things and I think That might I mean, it’s not a huge downside But I think for the person leading and creating the group that might be like a slight
Chris Gazdik: Well, I think it’s not a downside at all Well, I think what you’re saying is It really is challenging for the leader.
Mm hmm. I mean there’s the leader really is working Yeah, so honestly whenever you’re a part of a group honor the leader honor the leader Yeah, you just just just say hey, I really appreciate you doing what you’re doing because particularly in church groups or informal Circumstances, they really are volunteer their time and they’re putting a lot into it [00:27:00] Yeah.
They’re really putting a lot into it. Yeah, a lot. A lot that you wouldn’t think about.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: So we’re not going to talk about group leadership today. Right, yeah. That’s literally a whole topic.
Victoria Pendergrass: Oh yeah, we could probably do a whole podcast on some of it.
Chris Gazdik: We really could and, you know, Mike, Mike will. Add it to
Victoria Pendergrass: the list.
Mike
Chris Gazdik: will. But yeah, I, I appreciate what you’re saying because it, it really isn’t simple and some people really struggle to, to be effective at it.
Leading a group is not easy. Oh. Being in a group, which is our topic today, super easy. You could participate as much. Or
Victoria Pendergrass: as little. Or as little. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: As you want.
Victoria Pendergrass: And there’s no judgment. For.
Chris Gazdik: Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, someone, the leader might encourage you to say like, hey, Chris, would you like to have anything to share about the, you know, but then you can just say no. Right. And then like, you know, not today.
Chris Gazdik: It’s okay.
Victoria Pendergrass: And then they, well, they’re like, you know, if you have a great leader, they’ll be like, okay, that’s fine.
And then they’ll move right on. That’s what’s
Chris Gazdik: so powerful about a group too. You know, let’s talk about the benefits and stuff, right? Right the the the Gosh groups are so powerful. They’re so awesome. Like I [00:28:00] love them And there are so many benefits Somebody who’s non participating and wants to be you know, be yeah, you know that that is like totally okay Like you just said with no judgment observing and you’re gaining so much observation It’s not like because you’re not participating.
You’re not getting anything out of it,
Victoria Pendergrass: right? Yeah, and it’s not far
Chris Gazdik: from
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah
Chris Gazdik: You Like you’re so gaining all of the things that we’re about to talk about You’re just not participating a lot and that’s okay.
Victoria Pendergrass: That’s fine,
Chris Gazdik: right? So yeah I don’t know. I I just get excited man
Victoria Pendergrass: I love it though because and I do think that it’s a good insight and a good way for people to see that like Groups can be effective and can be a good place to be and it’s not all that scary and you know You
Chris Gazdik: So intellectually, you can understand I’m sure I’m not the only parent in the world to be frustrated.
Victoria Pendergrass: Oh gosh. [00:29:00] It feels like that sometimes. It really, really does. That’s why
Chris Gazdik: I went there. I have said more than once, the best conversations about parenting that I had were on the sidelines of the practice fields for baseball. Or soccer. Talking to other
Victoria Pendergrass: parents.
Chris Gazdik: Talking to other parents. When they say, oh my gosh, my kid will never pick up the towels.
It’s shocking to me. It’s still shocking to me. Because I feel alone when I’m dealing with that pressure. And one of the biggest powerful aspects of a group is you realize the only way that you can realize that is by direct experience from another person that is combined experience with you when you share your story about the towels and the floor.
I will believe it then. Like my mental system believes I’m not alone when I logically just think about it. Of course kids are annoying and all parents deal with stress I know this I don’t feel that until victoria. I have a [00:30:00] conversation with you and we share
Victoria Pendergrass: Right
Chris Gazdik: our burdens.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: then i’m like wow. I
Victoria Pendergrass: really am not alone.
I’m not the only one.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, you know I’m sure you’ve had those experiences
Victoria Pendergrass: my two and a half year old isn’t the only one who’s in his I do it stage and Literally, I require the patience.
Chris Gazdik: I do it that
Victoria Pendergrass: I You Do not have a lot of times, because he says, I do it, and I’m like, oh my god.
Chris Gazdik: Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: But yeah, and yes, and I think a lot of times when we’re in the thick of those things, it’s easy to forget that we obviously are not the only people, or parents, or whoever, that have ever experienced, you know.
This thing
Chris Gazdik: yeah, it’s you know, we just got a youtube comment actually it’s from miss brown. Hello Right. So she she’s saying yeah school classmates that make a point of meeting every month regularly, right? and she Just makes the point to say that it is really awesome to reconnect Right, so you’re [00:31:00] you’re forming relationships.
Victoria Pendergrass: Wait, was that grandma brown?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, barbara. Yeah. Hi grandma Is So Yeah, like you’re you’re really you’re forming those connections those relationships and when you reconnect Even like a monthly meeting you only see these people 12 times a year But boy, man, you start tracking with them and they track with you groups pre create a caring
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, and I think that a
Chris Gazdik: sense of compassion.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, like my my With my dad’s job. They Go to a lot of conventions Transcribed like he does the construction stuff like the AGC and all these other things. And it’s so cool to hear, my mom usually goes with him through the years. We haven’t been with him in
cool to hear them talk about these other couples and other people who they’ve been going to these conventions with for like 15 years.
Oh right, absolutely. And, They go, you know, every [00:32:00] two or four years or whatever and but then they like keep up, you know And it’s so cool to be like see them interact and then you know, they’ll mention people and I’m like, yeah I remember them or you know, whatever and it’s like so you don’t necessarily at first think of it as a group I mean, it’s an organization but you don’t you know the people that you meet and the people that you connect with and like
Chris Gazdik: Stay tuned this who a therapist eyes Because I have and Neil and I have talked about it over the years I don’t know why we don’t have, we’re trying to get it organized and arranged and whatever, but I would love a Through a Therapist’s Eyes community, right?
Yeah. You know, forum, a, a, a place where people can come together and do exactly that literally over the years. Guys, I kind of intend to create that, okay? Like that’s something that is in my mind because what, how cool would a international Through a Therapist’s Eyes community Yeah, forum be about mental [00:33:00] health and substance abuse as a primary thing and whatever you want it to be.
Yeah, right
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, does it not sound awesome? I can does yeah
Chris Gazdik: All right. What other kind of benefits do we have? Sense of belonging you really become a part of a community you find out you’re not alone like what else occurs to you That’s really powerful about groups.
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean honestly like learning new things Not necessarily in the psycho educational thing, but like if we’re having like a parenting group and I’m like, okay I’m struggling with potty training and then someone else is like, oh, well, we did this.
Have you tried that? Like this worked for us? Have you tried this? Like, you know, and I’m like, oh my gosh, I didn’t think of that. That’d be like a great thing to try. Sharing and blending of ideas. And then I go home and I try it with my kid.
Chris Gazdik: Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: I only mention that because we’re literally about to start potty training.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, you’re going into potty training. Yeah. Oh, have fun with that. Thanks. Have fun with that. It’s a special time. We sang songs. Peepee in the potty. Poopoo in the potty. We had peepee and poopoo parties,
Victoria Pendergrass: man. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, anyway. [00:34:00] I digress. I do digress. That was the poopoo song. Anyway shared learning.
You’re right. And, and what’s funny is, you know, You made me think about being a leader And having that pressure And as you’re leading a group, this is behind the therapist’s eyes if you will Right, and you start seeing that group warm up And kind of really interconnect And we call it in the business group cohesion is increased Wow, it’s so cool to have information sharing man, and
Victoria Pendergrass: then you almost can like take a step back And you kind of just like watch everybody talk and like, you know, you still need, but
Chris Gazdik: it’s amazing.
It’s lovely. Yeah. As, as you therapists out there listening, when you get into a group setting and you’re a group leader and you can get to a place where you’re speaking very little throughout that hour or whatever your timeframe is. You’ve done a great job. That’s
Victoria Pendergrass: kind of how you know you’re doing a good job.
Chris Gazdik: But your value, [00:35:00] by the way, is still really high. I can, how are we on time? Yeah, I’ve got time. To demonstrate, to draw that out, I remember a therapist, I won’t say his name early on in my career, because he, you know, he missed it. We all miss things, but I’ll call him Matt. That’s a made up name.
Matt. Was running a recovery group And it was a long term recovery group. It was an open ended now We know what that means right people start and stop at different times and it just runs through But his group was such that he he he he went to his supervisor And he’s like look I gotta be off this week or whatever.
I think i’m just gonna have the group They’ll meet I won’t be there and you know, but they can still meet and do their thing and everything right and stuff
She’s like no No You don’t understand He’s like, well, what do you mean? No like I don’t, I don’t hardly say anything when I’m in the group, you know, and what she taught him and us, because it was in a group supervision setting group supervision, by the way, [00:36:00] that’s awesome.
Yeah. And, and she said, look, you’re got this group to this point. That’s awesome that they talk to each other. And that’s what we’re looking for. Like, this is an A plus job and how you’re leading this, but make no mistake about it, your leadership. That is nonverbal, absolutely sets the tone and you don’t want to lose that.
You don’t want other norms to get created in this group because there are group norms. That’s a whole nother thing, right? But he didn’t understand his value as the leader, but he also didn’t understand how great of a job he was doing because he got to that kind of a setup.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. So yeah,
Chris Gazdik: it’s really neat.
It was really neat.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, and I think you also get things like accountability and motivation. There are other people in the group that hold you accountable, like when you talk about things and Motivation’s cool.
Chris Gazdik: Can I give you a metaphor, I think, about being a group leader?
Victoria Pendergrass: Go for it.
Chris Gazdik: Charcoal.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay.
Chris Gazdik: Think charcoal grill. [00:37:00]
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay.
Chris Gazdik: All I want to do, if I got like four people in the group, no, let’s make it a little bigger, let’s say seven people in the group. Yeah. I’m looking for one person that really gets engaged. And I’ll kind of go to them and talk with
them and Ask them and pull them in and gear the conversation because that represents in my mind like a hot charcoal
Victoria Pendergrass: And then it spreads.
Chris Gazdik: It spreads.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: The motivation, the vulnerability, the comfort just grows as that thing gets warm and toasty because people start connecting and man, they love it. They’re so energized. So it’s, it’s a, yeah, charcoal, charcoal grill.
Victoria Pendergrass: What else we got?
Chris Gazdik: Multidirectional emotional movement.
Victoria Pendergrass: Let
Chris Gazdik: me, let me tell you what I mean by that.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay, go for it.
Chris Gazdik: I’m sure you were looking on the list, on our list coordinating us.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: So, I really believe, [00:38:00] And I don’t think you’ll disagree with me, Victoria, when I say in, in, in mental space,
Victoria Pendergrass: we
Chris Gazdik: have emotional energy. We feel it. Yes. You know.
Victoria Pendergrass: We have a battery.
Chris Gazdik: We have a battery. We have energy. We have ebb and flow.
Sometimes we feel super drained. Other times we feel energetic, like when you’re, when you’re in an emotional space, we really need the outlet.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Because it needs to, the energy. The hurt needs to move and when it moves out of you through even if you’re writing to nobody and burn the letter It moves out in a group When you move it out, it goes like to However, many number of group members seven different people.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: that’s a lot of movement Boom, just like that and literally you can feel it Like when you say something to one person and then you say the same thing to 10 people [00:39:00] There’s a lot more that went out of you.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: you know i’m saying.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, have
Chris Gazdik: you ever thought about it that way?
Victoria Pendergrass: No, but I can see it,
Chris Gazdik: right Speaking on an international podcast at first was like creepy to me
Victoria Pendergrass: that’s
Chris Gazdik: like
Victoria Pendergrass: oh my god people in like Australia listening to us
Chris Gazdik: literally hearing me right now, and I don’t know if i’m comfortable with that like Going, they’re already in
Victoria Pendergrass: tomorrow.
Yeah. .
Chris Gazdik: Right? Right. They’re already in tomorrow for crying out. It’s going out.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: But I love it and I’m comfortable with it now ’cause we’re doing it as long as I have. Right. I don’t think about it. Yeah. Yeah. We, we don’t think about it now. But did you at first Curious?
Victoria Pendergrass: No. You were never dialed in that
Chris Gazdik: way.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, I think it would be different if it was a lot like live in the sense of people were staring at me Or I can see people staring at you don’t
Chris Gazdik: realize that your voice is in Australia right now Do you
Victoria Pendergrass: I get creeped out when I hear my voice in the lobby on the TV’s?
Chris Gazdik: It is kind of creepy but it’s also [00:40:00] powerful because if you realize the impact that we’re having is literally on that level Very, very cool.
There’s just a lot. It’s exponentially more than when you’re doing something individual in regards to that case You might even be able to make the case the group therapy is more effective than individual therapy
Victoria Pendergrass: Good
Chris Gazdik: Wow, right? Yeah, i’m not making that statement I would need to think about that. I don’t know how to quantify it.
They’re just right. Yeah. How do
Victoria Pendergrass: you measure? Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: it’s powerful That’s what I mean by exponentially but Ooh, it’s also exponentially more vulnerable A
Victoria Pendergrass: hundred percent. Yeah. So
Chris Gazdik: we probably need to transition to speaking about the myths and the fears and stuff that people have.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Because there’s a lot that goes into like,
Neil Robinson: god, I’m going to say this to a group of
Victoria Pendergrass: people.
Yeah. Like, whoa. Well, and we already kind of hit on one of that people, a myth is that people think they have to share things. That’s right. We’ve already, we’ve already mentioned that. That like, yeah, if you don’t want to share, you can just say like, [00:41:00] not today, or you just want to. I don’t think
Chris Gazdik: people carry that myth though.
Victoria Pendergrass: I don’t know. I
Chris Gazdik: hadn’t thought about it until you just said that and the thought that was in my head.
Victoria Pendergrass: Neil has something to say though.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, Neil’s got the
Neil Robinson: mic. So, so what do you, rephrase that question really fast.
Chris Gazdik: Why do you think people actually are intimidated or more vulnerable or they don’t?
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, he’s saying, where do you think the myth of I have to talk in group therapy comes from?
Neil Robinson: Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Like, where do people get that from?
Neil Robinson: Well, you get, you have the old AA things of like, Hey, my name is so and so. I’m an alcoholic. Right? That, that welcome kind of thing. So when you see that as the intro, you think you always have to elaborate more. So I think that’s the biggest fear. And I think the biggest fear, depending on the group you’re in, there is a lot of guilt You know, why am I in this group setting?
Why am I doing this? Like I’ve made mistakes in the past. You don’t want to talk about it, right? You don’t want to be the one that brings up your problems
or you know, that you’re the reason things, things happen. Sometimes the power of letting [00:42:00] it out makes it real. If you do something and it affects someone you love or care about, well, when you talk about it, there’s a lot of vulnerability said a lot of vulnerability.
And there’s a way that. It’s it’s scary and it is scary but I think as you point out it is very and this is where I think a leader Becomes very important a leader wants you to kind of engage but not force you to Overshare because I think the idea of like hey, i’m so and so i’m an alcoholic Is a great intro, but then you don’t have to do much more than that, right?
It’s that icebreaker. I I know the one group. I don’t even have to do that to
Chris Gazdik: victoria
Neil Robinson: Yeah, well, I was in a group for a while and and there was always an intro thing that they would make you lead with And it’s It’s really like ripping that bandaid off that first time you talk. It’s really, it’s really actually, it’s surprisingly how, yeah, it’s very shocking, but it’s also a big weight off your shoulder,
Chris Gazdik: right?
So, and that sounds like more of a therapy group or a process group or something that where somebody is trying to draw that out a hundred percent,
Neil Robinson: but then what’s great is, as you said, [00:43:00] that myth of, I have to say everything. No, no, no, no. You go through, you, Do your little spiel, you get that out of the way, and then it’s up to you, right?
Every week is different. I think
Chris Gazdik: to go into, to, to answering that, to blow that myth up. Neil, I feel like people, to answer your question, or my question I ask you, Victoria, is, is, there, there’s, there’s a fear that there’s a norm and people are going to be in control and I’m not in control. It’s me against all of them.
There’s like a weird power dynamic or the leader’s going to make me do something and I don’t want to be out of control and that’s not the way it works. It’s not like you just said. It’s not what happens. It’s not.
Neil Robinson: Yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: not just a
Neil Robinson: and and I think what’s neat about any of the groups is the leader will coerce you or Try to get you to participate.
But once again, it’s still your freedom, right? You can make that choice. I I can as I
Victoria Pendergrass: would say challenge
Chris Gazdik: offer
Neil Robinson: offer. Yeah, because [00:44:00] I couldn’t course wasn’t like jumping
Chris Gazdik: We’re not manipulating you we’re not forcing you
Victoria Pendergrass: And there is that respect where if you say no, if you say no, thank you, like I don’t want to share.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. And what’s nice about groups is you, you’ll have opportunities, right? If you come back repeatedly, you will have that opportunity when you’re ready. And I think it
Victoria Pendergrass: comfortable, you know,
Neil Robinson: and I think that’s the cool thing about when you have the groups, which are the therapy groups and those process groups, there’s a big thing with you watch those people.
And I think. As to go against the myth, it’s actually very exciting to see those people when you’re there in sessions over and over again. You get that one person you see in the corner that never talks and then they talk. And it’s so cool because you find out about their stuff and it’s, so it’s really cool.
But yeah, that is a big concern and I think you hit on that. It’s a control issue. I don’t want to talk because if I talk, what room of face is going to have, then I have to spill more than I, or I say something I don’t want to say.
Victoria Pendergrass: When
Neil Robinson: in reality, as you sit there and you listen, you’re like, Oh, [00:45:00] They’re just like me.
That person did the same mistake I did, or that person goes through the same thing I do.
Chris Gazdik: You know what I love? I love it when, and you see this a lot of times in church groups and support groups like that. Insecure or really shy or very quiet people will go to those groups. And it might even take a time or two.
But I guarantee you, like, they get pulled out. They get, they come out of themselves and they start participating. Like, I love seeing what you just said there. That quiet person is the wallflower child. And then they come out, Victoria. Isn’t that awesome to see? You do like
Victoria Pendergrass: an internal, like, yes.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. It’s like they’re, they’re come, they’re, they’re free now.
Victoria Pendergrass: And,
Chris Gazdik: and you become free because the power of seeing everybody else in the group do what they’re doing and you are a part of the group and that helps you to do what you want to do, not what you are controlled and told to do.
Victoria Pendergrass: I want
Chris Gazdik: to be a part of the group.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. [00:46:00]
Chris Gazdik: Don’t you want to be a part of a group?
I love the show Cheers. Right? Yeah. You know, I go to Cheers, like, where everybody knows your name. It’s such a powerful concept that it made that, it made that show feel Good because you want to be like It’s a universal human experience to want to be a part of a group.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah
Chris Gazdik: We’re drawn that way.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, I love cheers.
Chris Gazdik: Cheers is awesome, right? I know
Victoria Pendergrass: But also I think you’ve already kind of hit on it. Some people think that it’s not as effective as one on one.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, we hit that
Victoria Pendergrass: It might be more. Yeah, also Some people I do think there is a myth that groups are only for people that have severe problems And that’s not true
Chris Gazdik: I don’t understand.
I mean, how is it that people feel that way?
Victoria Pendergrass: And I don’t get it. Like, I don’t get it. I don’t get it. I think maybe we’re a little biased. We’re a little skewed. Yeah. Because we’re therapists and we have experience with groups. You know, leading them or being in them [00:47:00] or whatever. But I think it’s because, maybe, I think it’s because when people think of groups, I would assume most people think of NA, AA, 12 step programs, those types of things.
And I think a lot of people view that as, like, they have a severe problem. I don’t have that big of a problem. I don’t need Group like groups aren’t gonna be effective for me. It may be a big
Chris Gazdik: rationalization.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, and and
Chris Gazdik: to avoid what I’m uncomfortable with Yeah, it makes total sense. I think you talked it.
I think you talked through that Yeah, and figured it out pretty well. And
Victoria Pendergrass: so but now I mean you can literally have I mean there’s literally groups for Literally Groups, right? It might be hard to buy for anything everything. What did I say? I combine a group for
Chris Gazdik: anything
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, anything and everything like know what you say?
You can literally I mean, like I said, I’m on a Facebook group for my favorite podcast. Like, you know, there’s groups out, I have a client who’s in a Reddit group [00:48:00] for people who have loved ones, loved ones with Borderline personality disorder like I mean, oh
Chris Gazdik: I see like so if you have all you know, what’s funny I I get what you’re saying, but there’s a frustration.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah here. Okay.
Chris Gazdik: I have I and I hear a lot You’re right. You can find a group for just about anything, but Victoria, I don’t know how you feel about it But I’m gonna make the statement you can for just about anything, but it’s really
Victoria Pendergrass: hard Define. Yeah. I said that. I said they’re, they’re really. Oh, did you?
Yeah, I said they’re really hard to find. Sorry. Rewind. I did say that. They’re really hard
Chris Gazdik: to find. Well, we got a, well, we got a red flag moment here. I just noticed he has the mic. Yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: what you got to say now?
Chris Gazdik: Save us!
Neil Robinson: Well I think, I think when you go back to the the severe problems I think part of the issues, there’s a lot of people that are in denial about their small problems, and they feel like those groups are only for when you’ve crossed over, not understanding the benefit before they cross [00:49:00] over to those issues.
Chris Gazdik: And I think you’re on something really neat. So what do you mean by crossover?
Neil Robinson: So basically the idea, like when you, once again, the negative idea of severe problems, why do people go to AA and a or other therapy? It’s like, that’s mandated, right? Because you did something right when you, right. So there’s that negative repercussion that those groups are only if you cross a line,
Victoria Pendergrass: like hit rock bottom, hit
Neil Robinson: rock bottom.
Right. So, but people, what people don’t value is that if they went to groups sooner before they hit rock bottom. You wouldn’t, you wouldn’t get to those severe problems because people underestimate, underestimate the value of them.
Chris Gazdik: You know, I think that’s interesting. Because you
Neil Robinson: think about it, how many people are in AA or NA because they drank too much and they abused their wife or they wrecked their car or they did X, Y, and Z?
Yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: they landed in jail.
Chris Gazdik: A crap ton. Right. A crap ton, wait a minute, a lot. The, the, the vast majority are voluntary.
Neil Robinson: Right. Well, you mean they go before they get to that bad?
Chris Gazdik: Yes.
Neil Robinson: You’re saying so, but then the question, I guess the thing would based on the Daniel Glaser, what, while it [00:50:00] might’ve been major, like as far as law problems, but was it something dramatic in their life that led them to go
Chris Gazdik: right?
Okay. Yeah, I stand corrected. There’s a lot of particularly for a group like that. When you’re in a state of crisis, that’s a motivating theme. Right. And it’ll, and sometimes it will land you in, you know, a group or whatnot.
Neil Robinson: Right. So instead of saying, Hey, Oh, I, I think I’m having a slight issue. Maybe I’ll show you a group and see what’s going on.
It’s, it’s when they go down those downward spirals and you hit whatever that is, that traumatic experience for you. Right. Once again, it might not be law
breaking. It might not be anything horrible, but it’s still that idea because they don’t understand that. How valuable a group is before it even gets to that part.
Right.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. And, and I guess the same thing is interesting. I’m following you better now. I mean, because somebody comes to a therapy experience and individual therapy, a lot of times that’s the same deal. Yeah. I mean, people are in crisis on session one often. And then of course, you know, there are all kinds of people that come just to improve [00:51:00] life a little bit and whatnot.
So there’s a, so there’s a big variable there. Yeah.
Neil Robinson: And I think that’s, that’s one of the things that I think looking at, you know, one of the next thing is, you know, when you think about a group, one of the biggest concerns too is if you’re sharing your problems, can you trust the other people in your group?
Cause they’re not professionals. Right? Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: I think that’s a huge myth.
Neil Robinson: Right. But, but I think it’s, and it’s, I think the most important thing is when you look at that, just like Vegas. What happens in group stays in group, right? So because everyone’s in that same position, you have to think they’re not going to go out and tell people like, Oh, I went to group in this guy had this like, well, what were you doing in that same group for, right?
There’s this sense of camaraderie brotherhood as the same people in those types of therapy. process groups. Yes. And you have to understand
Victoria Pendergrass: that. Yes, I agree with that. But I want to add that you also have to work up to that, like, at least in my experience, like you have to work up to that, like you have to have a conversation about that in therapy.
And maybe that’s more what we talk about is like the therapist role to or the leader’s [00:52:00] role to set up these, depending on the type of group.
Chris Gazdik: Hold on a minute. I think you’re in a different space than we’re talking about.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah Do you think she’s in a different space? Yes. Yeah, go ahead Re re re re re judge well
Neil Robinson: when you think about the the treatment or the process groups and those types of things Once again, if you’re there because you’re ashamed or you’re in that once again Everyone’s in that same position you right?
This is different than a work therapy Or a work group or a school group that you’re forced there by the therapist right or whatever Or they’re your manager or whatever. You may not want
Victoria Pendergrass: to go tell people i’m in like
Neil Robinson: Group X, right?
Victoria Pendergrass: Porn addiction group and this other guy said, you know, cause they’re probably going to get follow up questions like, oh, why are you in a porn addiction group or something, you know?
Is that kind of what, exactly? Exactly,
Neil Robinson: like I said, I met this guy at AA last night and said this, well, why were you at the AA thing too, right? So
Chris Gazdik: think about this though, I’m glad you’re really tracking with that that way. That’s cool, and I think you’ve done a good job in highlighting what happens. The big fear is I can’t [00:53:00] trust that this will be confidential and people won’t talk about me, right?
You’re correcting that saying think about this and look If you have a group a group has cohesion as you’re a part of this group Other people are not a part of this group any level of group identity any level of cohesion completely locks that into place meaning Other people outside of this group can’t even understand what we’re talking about.
And it’s we and us, and it was a word for that. It’s called groupthink. Yep. A natural process begins to occur. in that groupthink space where it’s us.
Victoria Pendergrass: Took a deep
Chris Gazdik: breath, indicating thought.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, I just don’t want to, and I could be totally off base here. I do, like, okay, yes, if your leader is a therapist, they’re bound by board, like, to not share. There’s a professional
Chris Gazdik: level. Yes, but I will say
Victoria Pendergrass: that, you know, [00:54:00] we cannot control other people. So would you say that there’s not a hundred percent guarantee that Absolutely, I understand you’re doing a classical
Chris Gazdik: therapist CYA thing here, but before you think about it, when you say that to a group and the many groups that you’ve led, have you ever had to go, because I’ll make this bold statement, I have never, I have ne as many, I’ve been doing this for a long time now, I’ve led a lot of groups, been a lot of different people in these groups, I have never once that I can recall Had to confront somebody about the confidentiality of the group.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, I’m just never happened I don’t know my anxiety just puts that out there and now I’ve never had the issue either And the rats that I’ve led and the group are groups that I’ve been a part of
Chris Gazdik: thought of that Yeah now in this moment, but I’m thinking
Neil Robinson: the men’s groups, right that you have the mastermind men’s groups like I’m in two of on one with you and I’m have a book study men’s group.
And it’s, of course, but the thing is, is there’s that understanding that this is about our space. This is our area to [00:55:00] talk about the things we talk about. And so you, once again, it’s that group think it’s that idea of there’s, you know, camaraderie ship. Like I said, there’s a brotherhood to this. Like I said, if you’re going there for the same purpose now, once again, if you’re in a group that a therapist or an HR force you to get in and you don’t have that rapport, that’s a whole nother thing in itself.
Right. And there is that but for most places it’s like, When you’re there for a reason, my
Victoria Pendergrass: thought is kind of all face. I’m just kind of putting that out there that there is no cautious. Yeah. There is no a hundred percent guarantee that like, especially when an open you’re doing the behind
Chris Gazdik: the therapist guys cover your ass thing here.
That’s all you do it. And it’s fine. But again, remember, I’ve never thought of that. Victoria, I’ve done the same speech to people in groups. That’s part of the group law. That’s part of the group norms. And we develop these things. This is a group leadership, so don’t worry about that. But. I’ve never had a problem with that.
Yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: no, and I’m saying, I’ve never, I should put that out there.
Chris Gazdik: In all these years. All these years. And that honestly kind of surprises me. It’s why I’ve gone back to that again. It kind of [00:56:00] surprises me.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, I think it kind of does move on to the next thing that I want to point out is that, a myth, is that some people think that Yes, they’re in this group, but like other people aren’t gonna actually want to hear about my problems or hear about what I’m going through.
And honestly, that’s not, I can see where that myth comes from.
Chris Gazdik: I love blowing that up.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, but it is totally off base. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Absolutely not true.
Victoria Pendergrass: If people didn’t want to hear about your problems, they wouldn’t show up to the group to begin with.
Chris Gazdik: It’s part of the benefit of the group itself.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. It’s to hear.
I mean, we literally talked about hearing people’s other people’s perspectives. Right. Learning. And like accountability and all these things. Cohesion. Belonging. And you don’t, you don’t get that unless you talk about your problems. People, right. So, yeah. I go back to the whole thing. If I don’t want to hear about other people’s problems, I ain’t showing up.
Chris Gazdik: And sometimes I’ve been a part of a group and felt that way and didn’t go.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, and then you stopped going.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Well, just for an evening. Yeah. I just took a break. I’m not, I’m [00:57:00] not,
Victoria Pendergrass: I’m not
Chris Gazdik: facilitated for this today. Yeah. It’s okay. Yeah, it’s okay.
Neil Robinson: Well, and I think the other, with that one that’s kinda interesting.
When, when you’re in a group and, and you have your problems and you explain it, or someone comes in and they’re really struggling with it, you feel as someone who’s getting beaten down because of why you’re in the group. The fact that you can help someone with their own problems Oh, yeah. By sharing yours, it’s so even listening to them or even listen.
Yeah. You know, you talking about if, like I said. If you share it, someone says, Oh yeah, I’ve been through that. Here’s how I, like the reward you get that you actually start becoming more human. You’re not just a piece of, you know, a piece of meat that’s like, I have problems. Like, no, I’m actually helping this person.
It’s very rewarding. It’s very, it, it builds you up. And if you’re in these things because you have to be and you’re already in a business, Well, now you feel more human. You feel like you’re actually helping other people. It kind of vindicates like everything you’ve done, or at least I’m going to vindicate for a term.
I’m, I’m, my vocabulary is all off tonight,
Chris Gazdik: but now you’re fine. But,
Neil Robinson: but the idea is it’s a, it’s actually very rewarding [00:58:00] when you share with people that they can then help you back. So actually it’s healing for you to get it out and it’s healing for them to help you back. So don’t feel guilty for sharing your problems.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, and I think that also lines up with, and it’s not necessarily listed on your thing, but I think a lot of people shall
Chris Gazdik: not be mentioned. I think
Victoria Pendergrass: a lot of people think that, Oh, I don’t want to share our, why would I share when other people have it worse than me? Or like, you know, that whole like, yeah, the whole like, oh, all of our things that we share, our trauma or whatever, all have to be equal.
And that’s not the point of a group. Like, yes, the theme, the theme of the group may be the same. Yes, like, I’m a child of divorce or something. Like, that may be a commonality. But, and like, why you’re in this group. But that doesn’t mean that like, you all have to have this equal level of like, shared experiences.
Chris Gazdik: You can be different. And
Victoria Pendergrass: that doesn’t mean that what your, if your experience is over here and someone else’s is over here, that doesn’t necessarily make yours [00:59:00] less than what that person experiences or had experienced or whatnot, which means you can hopefully still feel comfortable sharing those things without having this fear of like, Oh, well, this other person has had it worse than me.
You know, if someone already shared and they shared this horrific story and you’re like, geez, like mine’s not that bad. Like I, I shouldn’t share to me, but like, there’s
Chris Gazdik: a major fear of being rejected
Victoria Pendergrass: because
Chris Gazdik: I’m not as problematic as this other person. So what’s, why should I share?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. Or my thing’s not as important because it wasn’t as quote unquote severe.
Yeah. And so therefore I don’t have any reason to shut up and I don’t want people to think that like, right. We’re in this, we’re in whatever group it is to learn and grow and better ourselves and work through things or whatever the reason that we’re in. We’re not sitting here nitpicking and judging each other for like, What the other person, for, you know, what someone else is saying, or their experiences or whatnot.
I
Chris Gazdik: still want to throw this [01:00:00] in before we’re completely out of time. Mm
Victoria Pendergrass: hmm.
Chris Gazdik: This is going to feel a little random because it doesn’t flow with our conversation. Okay.
Victoria Pendergrass: But
Chris Gazdik: there are, like, I love thinking about the, the personalities that come out in a group. Yeah. So you will find as you see a group, particularly this open ended, You know, when members come in and out, you’ll have people that are like acting like a facilitator or they’re, they’re acting like they’re, they’re the note taker, you know, they, they play out different roles and you wonder like, well, who is the, who’s, who’s the critical person that’s in this group or, you know, oh my gosh, are, are, are, Our, the coaching person, the encouraging coach has left the group.
Who’s going to be the encouraging person and somebody else fills that role. It’s so cool. Yeah. You take on different roles and this is this kind of neat. So let’s, let’s end up on a little segment of, you know, how, how can you really get the most out of your [01:01:00] experience? when you are presented with the opportunity to be a part of a group.
First of all, if you’re presented in an opportunity to be a part of a group, I truly hope you take it.
Victoria Pendergrass: At least try it out. At least dip your toes in the water.
Chris Gazdik: Right?
Victoria Pendergrass: At least, yeah. And if yo
Chris Gazdik: it’s okay. That’s
Victoria Pendergrass: okay.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, because every group is different,
Victoria Pendergrass: but then don’t give up on it
Chris Gazdik: I try a different culture try a different group
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, I
Chris Gazdik: tell people that with aa all the time Anyway, like if you go to a meeting and you don’t like it, there’s weird people.
That’s fine It’s a different culture for that particular group. Go check another one out Yeah. Check a third one out. Yeah. You’ll find a few groups that you really, really enjoy because it’s a different group of people. That’s fine. That happens.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. I would also say be consistent. Be open minded. Okay.
You know, especially, you’re going to get, and they say, you know, this kind of goes back to AA we talked about last week, but you know. The more you work it, the more it helps. So it works if you work it. Yeah. And so I can’t remember that exactly, but I think it’s the same for any [01:02:00] other type of group too.
Like a lot of times you’re gonna get more out of it. Like if you’re in a grief group, you’re probably gonna get more out of it by staying consistent and showing up to the weekly meeting or, you know, doing the things rather than going one week and then sporadically going I’ll go here. You know, like letting
Chris Gazdik: your fear get you.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. You know, make the effort. Just put it in your calendar, do the things, what you need to do to try to be, I mean, we get things happen, emergencies happen, like even like today, John couldn’t be here, right? Even though we plan to be, so things happen, we understand that, but try to be consistent as you have increased
Chris Gazdik: consistency.
If you have increased openness, if you have, you know, a willingness, you can experience the incredible power. I think one of the biggest things is realizing. you know, to get the most out of a group experience that you have your autonomy. Yeah. You really can say no, you’re in control of yourself. No one’s controlling you in the group.
The group [01:03:00] think doesn’t control you. There’s like no weird psychology that you’re going to come out of this thing in a different, you know, right. I think there’s a lot of fear about groups. Like people talk about colleges poisoning people now. What’s the word they’re conditioning or like
Victoria Pendergrass: brainwashing
Chris Gazdik: brainwashing is a great word.
Let’s just stay with that. Colleges brainwash kids to make ’em more liberal. There’s a fear that a group will change you. In ways that you don’t want to be changed. It just doesn’t happen very easily. If at all, not, I will say group think is real. You can be affected.
Neil Robinson: Yeah, for sure. You
Chris Gazdik: can be affected, but your autonomy, your belief system, your value system, your experiences, all the things that make up your perspective, no one else can change those if you don’t want that to happen.
So
Neil Robinson: I would, I would challenge is if you’re a starter group, go four times.
Chris Gazdik: At least. At least four times.
Neil Robinson: At least four times. In a row? Yeah, as close together as possible. And [01:04:00] I recommend that because it does a couple things. First time is shock. You don’t know what to expect. You don’t know what’s going on.
Second time, you start getting a little more comfortable. You start seeing the room. Third time, you’re looking at, okay, there’s different people here. Is it good now? Fourth time, you might feel comfortable talking. But if you don’t give at least four times I would say three to four. you’re not going to really jive unless there’s some really bad juju vibes that you just don’t like this group.
It’s
Chris Gazdik: not safe,
Neil Robinson: right? Whatever it is, even if it’s safe, but you just don’t feel good. Like I said, if you really have built bad vibes, whatever, but you should at least give groups four chances to give you to see what really happens. Because once again, you start building like, Oh, I’m talking to this guy over here and we started kind of connecting.
Hey, maybe I’ll go see if he’s here next year. If you don’t do that, You’re, you’re not going to get the benefit if you go one time like, Oh, this is horrible. That’s not going to benefit you. You have to break through the ice. You have to get comfortable. We have to start really seeing what it’s like in real time for you.
So I think if you’re going to do it three to four times consistently, really in that short span and really make it work, [01:05:00] that’s what I recommended. That’s a challenge. So stay consistent really early on, go at least four times and give it a shot whether you want to or not.
Chris Gazdik: As always, when Neil speaks, he is on point.
Mic drop, yeah. He is on. I was going to say,
Victoria Pendergrass: it’s very similar to individual therapy, right? Don’t just quit, you know, give it, give it, let it work, come a couple times. One undone therapy
Chris Gazdik: session doesn’t tend to give you a good flavor for what the experience is going to be. Yeah, we need to get out of here, but I hope that, that you’ve heard the excitement that I have.
I mean, I bring energy to the show anyway, because I’m excited about mental health and substance abuse, but groups are powerful, man.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: I mean, some of my most cherished experiences and growth have happened in the groups that I’ve been a part of. I mean, really. I mean, there was this talk about supervision.
There was a Gestalt therapy group that we were learning how to do therapy. Yeah. But that group was just so powerful in what I experienced and got from
it. Like, I just want people to experience that with whatever [01:06:00] the topic might be. You know, you can do something when you’re by yourself and alone And that’s great You can do yourself when you’re one on one with somebody And that has more energy But when you get to become a part of a group that’s all cohesive and has energy Like even a sports team man when a team works well together, man, they will wreck you
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: because they’re they’re it’s just strong.
Yeah, so for sure All right, listen you find a part of a group Take the opportunity and do it. You definitely won’t regret it. I believe is the truth. Stay well, take care, and we will see you next week.