In Episode 301 of Through a Therapist’s Eyes, we dive into our February Month in Review, revisiting key insights from our recent episodes. We reflect on Episode 298’s deep dive into moral courage, exploring how anxiety and insecurity impact our ability to stand up for our values. Then, we examine the practical wisdom from Episode 299 on Love and Logic parenting, discussing ways to foster responsibility and resilience in our children. Finally, we celebrate a major milestone—Episode 300—looking back at the journey so far. Join us as we connect the dots and uncover the big takeaways from this past month!
Tune it to see February Month in Review Through a Therapist’s Eyes
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Episode #301 Transcription
Episode301
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] This is through a therapist’s eyes on the day after my birthday, believe it or not. We were just chatting about that on the YouTube live. Adam, I turned 52 on 2 25 25. Oh, you old man. We already established this is a crazy number. He had to say that,
Adam Cloninger: man. Remember, I am older than you, so, you know. Yeah, how you doing, Neil?
I’m a lot younger.
Chris Gazdik: So this is going to be the first month in review for quite a while for Mr. Clonager. We hadn’t had him for, since October.
Adam Cloninger: Yep.
Chris Gazdik: Given Thanksgiving, weird holiday schedules, we took actually the first. break in the entire time that we did. But we are going to review the shows that we did recently in February.
The last one of which was episode 300.
Adam Cloninger: Yeah, this is 301 today, 301 today.
Chris Gazdik: And so that was a celebration of through a therapist as we had fun [00:01:00] chatting about all the shows, the history of the years, the panel. We talking about old Craig Graves starting us out, you know, the, the original OG. I guess. I don’t know what O.
G. really stands for, though. What is that? Original gangster. I thought so, but yeah, but what is that? Why? Why do we say this? I’m gonna sound ignorant here. You never heard
Adam Cloninger: somebody say, he’s a straight out gangster.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, so it’s just like, you know, He’s original. He’s original. Yeah, so what’s the gangster part?
Why do we have to say gangster? Why can’t we say original guy?
Adam Cloninger: Cause it don’t sound as cool.
Chris Gazdik: I’m just saying.
Neil Robinson: There’s a lot that this explains Chris in so many levels right now.
Just stick with OG and just be happy that you know what it is now.
Adam Cloninger: So I know how we can prevent him from messing up what your role is. I can’t believe he hasn’t said behind the iron curtain. Iron Curtain. Yeah. Oh, I like that. You can remember that, can’t you? I can. Huh. I can. So he’ll never forget now.
Chris Gazdik: I can.
Since
Adam Cloninger: you’re a Steelers [00:02:00] fan.
Chris Gazdik: Mr. Neil Robinson comes out of the Iron Curtain for the Threw a Therapist Eyes Month in Review and we have Mr. Adam Cloninger hanging out with us. This is, as I said, February the 26th. I didn’t say that. The day after my birthday. We have the books out, very excited about that.
Through a Therapist’s Eyes, we have volume 1 and volume 2. You too can become a reader of Through a Therapist’s Eyes. It is out on Amazon and should be still in bookstores. You know how bad of an author I am though? I have not even done the author stuff and found my book in the wild in a bookstore yet.
But you’re not a bad
Adam Cloninger: author, you’re just a, what would you say? A what? Go ahead, finish this sentence! We’ll say you’re doing what you always Blame Neal for doing.
Neil Robinson: Procrastinating?
Chris Gazdik: I don’t blame him for doing that. He, he does himself that way. I feel you’re just, you
Adam Cloninger: just are doing the same. You’re doing the same thing he does, but you always blame him of doing.
I’ll take it. You’re procrastinating. I’ll take it.
Chris Gazdik: Subscribe. Click the bell for notifications on YouTube. Tell a friend. Tell a friend about us [00:03:00] to, to subscribe on the YouTube channel five stars are important. Contact it through a therapist eyes. com. We love to figure out the human emotional experience together is the goal of our show.
So welcome back, Adam. It’s good to have you, man. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve missed you doing these shows. He we created a a get together game, if you will, of. Going down the rabbit hole before we get into the shows that we’ve done recently. Oh, also, by the way this is episode 301, as I think Adam said this.
After we turn the mics on that’s significant because I kind of did a thing on purpose where episode 11, 101, 201 have all been like reviews of, of one of the primary things that I operate with in my therapy, which is emotion focused therapy. So we’re going to review the shows. I guess I’m just going to do a brief overview.
It’s kind of hurting me, Neil, because I, I want to do a full EFT show and we can’t, I feel weird about it.
Neil Robinson: Well, if you [00:04:00] planned, you could have done like an EFT review part one and then like. Carry over to 302. Maybe kind of count it.
Adam Cloninger: Yeah, that’s not gonna Just whatever episode you felt like you could talk more about just do a follow up episode of that one
Chris Gazdik: Well, we’d cover it from the show.
It’s very few things that we actually review in Content we kind of started out Back doing shows publishing stuff again. And and actually the I think most of the shows that we we’re doing reviews on are things that we actually do kind of do You know recover the content because 300 episodes man. We haven’t we don’t redo content We, we always have new content.
There’s new ideas, new thoughts. ’cause we’re always dealing with new things behind, through a therapist size you know, in our offices and stuff. But the shows we’re gonna cover Moral Courage, love and Logic and 300 episode and the EFT stuff. That’s actually content throughout the show. I, I, I preach that on purpose ’cause it’s so pivotal in the work that we do that we’re kind of reviewing.
Content that we do redo from time to time to time on the show [00:05:00] That was that came I could have been that could have came out so much cooler, but I I missed it
Adam Cloninger: I can tell i’ve been gone a while. You’re already slipping on something using acronyms. What’s the eft emotion? Thank
Chris Gazdik: you emotion focused therapy Okay, love and logic is parenting stuff and content on moral I thought what she was going to do is get me like Victoria does.
This is not the delivery of therapy services of any kind.
Neil Robinson: I’m pretty sure once they realize we’re on the couch that it’s definitely not therapy services.
Chris Gazdik: That’s true. Good point. So where are we going Mr. Cloninger? Down the rabbit hole.
Adam Cloninger: Help us out. So you know how we’ve had a lot of things in the news lately about plane crashes and stuff like that.
So obviously, something like that could be very traumatic. But I read an article today, as a matter of fact, from is an article from Sky News. And I don’t, they didn’t have a date of when this actually happened, I’m assuming recently. But Qatar Airlines, a flight out of Melbourne, had a 14 hour flight.
10 hours [00:06:00] into the flight a woman in the restroom had a medical emergency or she came out. Wait a minute Are we going to like
Chris Gazdik: a show that I loved the show. What was the name of the show? I’m trying to think of it for a bomb and I’m bombing. What was the show? Manifest. Are we, are we, are we going down manifest road here?
Adam Cloninger: No.
Chris Gazdik: Do you know the show?
Adam Cloninger: No. But I’m not, I’m not familiar with manifestation. You are? No.
Chris Gazdik: So, if I’m saying the title correctly, it’s it’s a show where people like disappear in a plane and come back and they were going to die. I like the
Adam Cloninger: movie Millennia or whatever it was. Millennium? Millennium, whatever it was.
I
Neil Robinson: don’t know. Talk about a rabbit hole. Yeah, sorry. Anyway, what happened? Thank you, Neal. Anyway,
Adam Cloninger: The woman had a medical emergency at aisle four on the plane. But this is a different issue. It’s not, nobody’s on, there wasn’t a plane crash or anything, but the woman fell out. They tried to give her first not first aid, but like CPR.
Oh, life saving. Yeah, it’s life saving. So they couldn’t revive her. [00:07:00] And they had four more hours on the flight. Well, there was a couple sitting on aisle four where it happened. So they’re, you know, working on the woman. And they say, can you scoot over a seat? So they scoot over her seat. They picked the woman up.
Put her in the seat. Oh no. Beside them. No. Put a blanket over her and leave her there for the next four hours of the rest of the flight. Oh, they did not? Yeah. Yeah. But wait, it gets worse.
Chris Gazdik: This is, this is not a it
Adam Cloninger: gets worse. So then they land. Everybody else is allowed to get off the plane except them.
They’re told to stay, remain seated until we get the body off the plane. Cause, I guess the woman’s here and they’re up against the window, I guess. Yeah, well they’re, yeah, they can’t call over, right? So, they finally get the woman out and they finally get off the plane. I just was thinking about how stressful that might be.
I thought you’d think it’s a deep story. This is horrible!
Chris Gazdik: I don’t, this is [00:08:00] horrible. So, So what rabbit hole are we going down? Trauma recovery on planes? Well, I
Adam Cloninger: mean the the current thing that’s going around now is just you know planes plane crash stuff people stressed out about that I was just throwing another another fear opened
Chris Gazdik: Another fear opened.
Yeah another fear
Adam Cloninger: unlocked
Chris Gazdik: Well, I guess we could throw in the whole thing here in the States, maybe around the world, you’ve heard I don’t know, what was it, three, four months ago or so, there was a big old thing about all the drones in the air, like, where’s the drones coming from, where’s the drones coming from?
New Jersey and everything? Yeah, and people were getting terrified. I haven’t heard anything else about that. It’s gone away. Okay. It’s gone away because So I guess what I would do with that, Adam, is the emotional things that we have with flying and, you know, the fears that people have and the insecurities that get blown up.
I mean, people will take Xanax and stuff, benzodiazepines for medications for their anxieties. You know, there was a big thing [00:09:00] years ago with, you know, flying support animals that people wanted to do. Some of them were crazy, but it’s a legit thing. It’s a lot of anxiety with flying. Do you like flying, Neil?
Neil Robinson: I
Adam Cloninger: have no problems with flying.
Chris Gazdik: You do not. Not at all. Not at all? Are you on him?
Adam Cloninger: Persons who can sleep at a drop of a hat.
Neil Robinson: Okay. So I get motion sickness really bad. Okay. So I sleep to not get sick. Okay. So yes, I do.
Adam Cloninger: I will let you slide then. That’s a good excuse.
Neil Robinson: Cause last time I flew, I flew up to New York, not on a long flight, but I was trying to look at the little screen and just trying to stare at the screen.
I get motion. So literally I’ll put my earbuds in. I just. basically put my head in just, yeah, I tried to sleep. I do too, cause I’m actually
Chris Gazdik: seriously considering, I feel like I need to take a trip to Japan to see my son who’s stationed in, in, in Japan. Take off. And I kinda, I kinda feel like I need to do it, but I don’t, I don’t know.
But that’s a long flight, Neil, and I can’t sleep in situations like that.
Neil Robinson: You’d have your six hour flight to California, and then you’re like Right. 12, 18 hours, whatever it is, across [00:10:00] the Pacific? All wired
Chris Gazdik: and up. I can’t, you know, it would be a rough trip, travel for me, I think. But I’ve never traveled that far before.
Neil Robinson: I think my longest trip, we went to Peru. And the first time we went, we actually went up to Newark, and then flew down, and that was like a nine hour flight. Yeah. That was like overnight. That’s a long time. It is a long time. I’m not going to lie. Especially for someone like me. Like I said, I had to sleep.
That was
Chris Gazdik: 20 hour. Yeah. I’m thinking, you know, it’s literally on the other side of the world. So, we’ll see Adam. I think that There’s a lot of fears about all of the things that happen on planes. And then there are a lot of people that get fearful about being sick. It’s funny that you do this rabbit hole.
I just had somebody on my, you know, at my work. They had a big trip. And they, they were very fearful about heart arrhythmias that they had and they ended up doing the trip and it was okay, but they were going to France and, you know, it’s terrifying to think, what do I do if I get even just sick, let alone a [00:11:00] serious condition on a plane?
I mean, and and to be the passenger sitting next to that, I don’t understand that decision at all. That’s, that’s just, I don’t know, a cruel and unusual punishment.
Neil Robinson: I’m just trying to figure out why they made the people slide over. Like, where was she supposed to be that they couldn’t put her back in her original seat?
It
Chris Gazdik: didn’t, it didn’t Any original seat is gonna be next to people. Tell me, take her to the, to the back. I mean, somewhere. I mean,
Adam Cloninger: I guess they could have done that. It was, I left this part out. They did mention the woman was kinda large.
Neil Robinson: So it was hard to move her down and back. They said they,
Adam Cloninger: they said they Couldn’t leave her in a wheelchair because she’d be out in the aisle, even though there was a wheelchair, so, but, I mean, I got the impression she must have been, did say a large lady, so.
Neil Robinson: Hard to, yeah.
Adam Cloninger: Well, you
Chris Gazdik: gotta go to first class or something, I mean, where you got space or the, the, the, where you got some privacy a little bit or something, comp a first class person and it’s something, you can’t put them in a [00:12:00] freaking aisle seat and just do
Adam Cloninger: that. Well, I just got all kinds of questions, I mean, did they like Bungie her down or whatever.
I mean, not trying to be
Neil Robinson: funny, but I mean, I’m thinking a week in that Bernie’s kind of thing. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: I mean, it’s terrible. That’s what I’m saying. I just don’t understand that decision. You know, you’re not gosh, everyone’s traumatized on that deal. You know, I mean, that’s, that’s
Adam Cloninger: what I would think. The reason they put her in that seat was.
To try to lessen the stress level of the whole flight. Cause you think, Oh, well, she passed away. We got to take her all the way back to the back or whatever, but I’m thinking she must’ve been pretty close to there. Anyway,
Chris Gazdik: you have to take her to the bar. You can’t put them in it.
Adam Cloninger: I don’t know.
Chris Gazdik: It’s, it’s interesting.
So,
Adam Cloninger: put her beside the bathroom for the next four hours?
Chris Gazdik: See? You gotta go to the, what are the, the attendance, the attendance space. They have seats that they can do [00:13:00] something or Yeah, but those
Neil Robinson: are tiny, like if you have a look at those are tiny seats usually that they sit in. They’re just these weird little like Is row four Yeah, it’s little pull down seats.
Is row four the front or back?
Adam Cloninger: I can’t remember. Usually it
Neil Robinson: would be towards the front,
Adam Cloninger: I think. So she’s only on four, row four, so she’s pretty close to the front.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Well, it’s just a terrible situation. I guess the curiosity I have about that is what, I mean, what kind of protocols airlines and such have for, you know, situations where medical or emotional or, you know, there are people with PTSD and panic.
Attacks, panic disorder. I mean, there’s a lot of things that can happen that people struggle with.
Neil Robinson: Well, I mean, one of the questions I have, maybe this is a show that we need to cover, is just irrational fears. When you really think about, like, the trauma or the issues on airplanes, how infrequent it really is when you look at the ratios.
But yet, people get really worked up about it, right? It, like Yeah, we’ve had a couple plane crashes and issues right now, but when you think about how many flights go out every day, like it’s such a small percentage when you think about it, it’s, [00:14:00] you know, now you have these people on this plane. Now there’s the irrational fear that what if someone else dies on my next flight?
What are the odds it’s going to happen? So it’s kind of an interesting perspective of like the idea of What leads people to these irrational fears, you know, you know, the 1980s or 70s when Jaws came out, you know, shark attack, shark attack.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, yeah.
Neil Robinson: Right. You know that. So that’s one of those interesting perspectives after the fact.
Chris Gazdik: Well, you know, it’s a good point, Neil. And you’re absolutely right. I mean, there’s there’s something called secondary trauma, and it is a real thing. You know, people have to dreams and nightmares about the Ukraine war right now. It’s in the news a lot. You have the, the horrible realities over in Gaza.
You know, when, when there are, when there are larger events that affects people, I mean, it’s not like something that’s halfway around the world and you don’t think about, converse to that, it really can trigger like real experience. And I, and I hope that anyone listening isn’t seriously triggered by.
This kind of a rabbit hole because [00:15:00] it can, I mean, it can, it can, it can create, you know, more and more.
So, you know, what we want to do is kind of manage that calm yourself down, positive thinking, reframing stuff, you know, a lot of the things we talk about on the show. But yeah, we can, we can move on. I think Adam, I don’t know, brother. That might be the worst
Neil Robinson: one.
Chris Gazdik: I wasn’t, I wasn’t one to say it that way, you know, night fighting and different things like that are, that would stick out in my head, but Neil and I actually contacted Adam and said, Hey, this would be an awesome rabbit hole.
We usually don’t know what he’s coming up with. And so we would have known, but we actually both forgot what it was. So it was, I was excited to know what we were going to be reminded of. I think I remember
Adam Cloninger: what it is now, but I’ll talk about right now though.
Chris Gazdik: Why? Are you going to use it still?
Adam Cloninger: No, we’ll talk about it again after the show.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, when the mics are off. Yeah. Oh, he’s taunting us, everybody.
Adam Cloninger: Actually, I thought you were going to use it as an episode. Oh, did you? [00:16:00] I think it was about, because I did the, I was going to say, remember we did the lights? And we’re talking about the, somebody being with you, helping. Same thing when somebody’s doing.
Lights. Yeah, your light bulb, your headlight. Yeah. We had to repair it. Yeah. And we talked about, you know, it’s easier when somebody’s helping you. And then I. Oh, yeah, yeah. I talk about doing, you know. Repairs around the house or your significant others there with you? Something that’s easiest? I don’t know.
Oh, yeah, I, I, I think you were doing show. That’s, that’s what we were talking about
Chris Gazdik: though. No, Neil and I had something totally different. Oh, okay. Yeah. I, I think I texted you. You like, oh, okay. Cool. Yeah, and I think you just blew us off.
Neil Robinson: I don’t remember it either. .
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. I, I don’t remember what it was. I have, I have no idea, but, all right.
So let’s get into episode 3 0 1. Is this episode and as the pattern of 11 1 0 1 and 2 0 1 goes, I do wanna do a little. You know, kind of recap, I guess, if you will, on emotion focused therapy. One of what I call the trifecta, the three primary things that I think are really prominent in, you know, [00:17:00] having formed the way I think about therapy with these particular topics.
EFT is the first big one. We’re going to talk a little bit about love and logic today, which is parenting strategies and whatnot for, for your kids at home. And then also Financial Peace University, Dave Ramsey stuff for couples talking about finances and stuff. That’s what I call the trifecta in my mind.
I only call it the trifecta because I feel like there’s common themes. I never have gotten together and thought out, like, what are the common themes that each one of these people, totally unrelated, that have similarities? Because they do have similarities. But anyway, Emotion Focused Therapy, Neil and Adam, from a non clinical standpoint, having droned on about this how many times on the show, what do you recall, what do you know, what are you thinking about Emotionally Focused Therapy Couples Counseling Techniques?
Let me just throw a, throw a, throw a, throw
Adam Cloninger: it out there. I think it has to do with trying to get down [00:18:00] to The cause of what you’re feeling, you’re, you feel in a certain way, then you’re trying to figure out, well, what’s making you feel that way. It might not be what you think it is.
Chris Gazdik: I like that. Okay. I thought you were going to go over some sarcasm statement, Adam.
I’m glad you went serious. Yeah. Me? Nah, that’s a good way of putting it. Neil, I know you’ve heard more of it, and you’ll probably get a little bit more on point, I’ll give you a second to think. I like doing that because honestly, like, I will talk about this in therapy, and we’ll look at patterns, and we’ll look at how, you know, foundations go in your Close attachment with your significant other and I will work with this thing and I will ask people that as a matter of fact I’ll even say like sometimes I’ll do individual with people and then we’ll blend in and do Couples counseling and I’ll have the person that knows more of it kind of say what they know about it.
I’ll never Never not fascinated with like how people hear this and how people engage with it So I love the way that you [00:19:00] did that because that’s it’s absolutely on point And but it’s not, I mean, I guess I use the words about it and I go through it in a different way in my thinking.
Neil Robinson: You were right but you were wrong.
No. Is
Chris Gazdik: that what I said? That’s not what I meant. Neil, what you got, man? Emotional therapy? It’s better than
Adam Cloninger: him saying, thanks for your input. We’re done here. Neil, what
Chris Gazdik: do you got, man? What do you hear with emotional folks therapy?
Neil Robinson: Well, knowing that I’ve heard this a few times on the shows, a few times. So basically the idea is, you know, the emotion focused therapy is, you know, the, the idea that everyone goes back to a root behavior.
And you’ve talked about many times where you have abandonment and you have engulfment and what that means. This is kind of an interesting perspective is. The emotion focused therapy is what do you resort to when your emotions are running rampant? What is your survival instinct? Like, what do you do? Are you a, do you pull away because you’re an abandonment person or do you [00:20:00] chase after if you’re an engulfment person?
You got
Chris Gazdik: it backwards.
Neil Robinson: I do have a backwards, right? So the abandonment is one that basically chases after, you know, they don’t, they don’t. Leave things alone. They continue to push it. Engulfment would rather just go hide in a room and just let me deal with it. Right.
Adam Cloninger: Yeah.
Neil Robinson: And so I think the interesting part about the EFT is this goes back to the root behavior that you naturally tend towards.
Right. So when you’re in a situation where you’re fighting with your spouse or things aren’t going well, what do you naturally tend to do? Right. Because that dictates how you can interact, what you should do with the person, you know, understand their processing. You know, this is a very interesting thing.
with my marriage because my wife is very much a abandonment. I’m very much an engulfment and we over the last, right?
Adam Cloninger: Yes. Okay. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
Neil Robinson: And that’s interesting because since I’ve started a show with you, I’ve, I’ve looked back at our marriage and I’m looking at the parts where, when we struggle, it’s like, oh yeah, this is when my wife, my wife does this and it drives me crazy because I do this.
And [00:21:00] so you, but what’s interesting over 21 years, you, we started to. Balance each other out. My wife, my wife steps back. I open up during those times. And it’s, it’s one of those things. It’s 21 years of working on this thing because
Chris Gazdik: 21 years of working on this thing. Yeah.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. And that’s, that’s the part because I am naturally one way.
She’s naturally the other. And, but as a couple, we’ve worked to. Understand those pieces. I know that I have to talk to her when I’m having issues and she knows she needs just a little leave me alone sometimes, right? Just drop it.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, it’s it’s as as as always, you know, Adam he’s on point Just kidding. No, you really are.
And what it’s really about is those those root behaviors that are very, very powerful. And I find this not just in marriage, but I will use this in individual counseling all the time in the way that people deal with close attachments, because really what it’s about is, is, is what do you [00:22:00] do. Do when you feel unsafe, what are the root behaviors as you say, because the whole goal is to feel safer when things are stressful or out of whack or, you know, they’re scary or you’re just pissed off or something’s really out of balance.
And then you do what you do, abandonment people. Will pursue because they want to gain emotional safety by getting close, working out the problem, talking about it, like right now, right? And that’s because that helps us to feel emotionally safe. Engulfment people, I don’t understand y’all, I love you, but I don’t understand it.
I don’t. And, cause I’m on the abandonment side. Neil knows that, right? Well, both of you know. And, and engulfment people just want to gain emotional safety too. It’s the same thing, but they’re just actually learn about this in opposites, in how over their life they’ve gained emotional safety by shutting down, withdrawing, creating distance and space so they can think through this thing.
But here’s what’s really funny about this if you really think about it. [00:23:00] We’re all doing the same stuff. We’re all scared, hurt. Angry is the easy emotion. Something’s going on that’s really, really hard and we’re all overthinking, we’re all over analyzing, people pleasing, doing this stuff that we get really into, and there are horrible, horrible patterns that can come out of this.
You’re right, Neil, they can be bad. balancing out as well in healthy relationships. That’s very, very which is why opposites usually attract. But when, when you’re doing all of this stuff that we all do, abandonment people just do it externally and now. Engulfment people do it internally and as time goes.
So it’s ironically, we’re all doing the same thing. It’s just to gain that safety, we do it in, in, in completely opposite fashion.
Adam Cloninger: I think he just called us slow.
Neil Robinson: I like to call us methodical. There you go. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, well, I mean, take it [00:24:00] however you want, Adam. Take it as you want. I don’t understand it. On the opposite side of the thing.
I really, I make that joke, but I don’t. But, you know, it’s funny, when we’re doing this in therapy with people and I go through those descriptions and we talk a little bit more at length about what’s going on. You can just see the wheels turning as people are thinking about it because it’s like
Neil Robinson: I think the kid that you hit is that they’re both in a state of fear.
They’re both in a state of recovery. They’re both, they’re both trying to get to that safe space. And so I think that’s one of those things I think when you deal with couples, when you both realize that you’re doing it for the same reasons. Does that really, does that sometimes help it click when the one spouse doesn’t understand the other and you realize, look, they’re doing the, they’re doing it differently, but it’s for the same reasons.
Does that, is that one of those things that kind of helps with some of the empathy kind of thing where they start realizing, oh, that’s why he or she does this, right?
Chris Gazdik: You know, in, in, in through therapist eyes, re understanding your marriage and becoming your best as a spouse. [00:25:00] That’s the volume two. You know, I want to do the same thing as I did in.
The volume the first book on self whittling all the chapters down into very specific categories not so happened with through a therapist as Re understanding your emotions and becoming your best self It was four categories and i’m going to do the same thing and take all the the chapter titles Which is by the way, if you’re interested in the book I would love for you to go get it because I think it’s going to be very helpful each chapter Is like a real therapy moment that I wrote down and then wrote on about and explained and went into some detail short chapters though, right?
Like very digestible three, four pages of, of explanation on this concept. Anyway, I’m going to take the whole book and I’m going to pull it down to however many categories comes out to, it’s going to be a great professional speaking engagement too, by the way. And I know one of those categories is going to be not to take things as personal.[00:26:00]
That is a primary emotional skill in a closed attachment. If you can master what you’re just saying, Neil, understanding how the other person’s operating and how you previously perceived it. As being false perception and then developing insight and understanding of each other Now you can get where you described neil where you guys are more in a zone where you can really balance each other Each other out and level that out because engulfment people do need to step in And deal with stuff.
No, it does
Neil Robinson: do
Chris Gazdik: not right now, but you do. And we need to learn how to back down, calm down, settled down. Don’t be extra. Stop it. Cause it makes it worse. It does. It does. It does. But it’s just crazy because I mean, you don’t understand both of y’all now. Listen. When y’all shut down and withdraw and just don’t [00:27:00] talk.
Look, I’m getting, pulling my mic apart. I’m so excited. It’s terrifying for us. We’re like, I have no idea what you’re thinking. I have no idea what’s going on. I am so alone. It’s terrifying.
Neil Robinson: You know how, you know how powerful that feels? To have that control? That it drives a person crazy? I love it. You’re sadistic, man.
That’s not cool.
Adam Cloninger: That’s why he does it. That
Neil Robinson: is 100 percent one of the reasons. I really, honestly, I don’t like people knowing where my, we’re about where I stand sometimes because I don’t like them knowing it’s a vulnerability thing, right?
Chris Gazdik: It is. And I’m glad you said that seriously, because honestly, again, this is not just with marriages that this very much is sort of operational.
I’m talkative in my work as a craft. And that’s in part because that’s the way I’m geared, and I work best, I, I communicate a lot, I say a lot of words, I have a lot of description, and that helps a lot of times to get a lot of information out in a small space of time. [00:28:00] But that doesn’t work when my partner is like all tripped out and I’m doing that and it’s just freaking her out as you said Adam, it makes it even worse.
So, there’s a balance that you gotta get, but when I’m talking with friends, or doing a podcast and doing all these things, it comes out. Like, that’s the way that I do. I’m pretty genuine, and when I’m in a mood or an emotion, you probably I am not hard to read, right? You know? But engulfment people, you’d like to never know what they’re thinking.
Or feeling. In a situation. And that’s safer. That’s more comfortable. Right? So, so this plays out. That’s why I use it in individual therapy, just as much as Just as much as else. So I don’t know, man. I would love to go on and on about EFT and do a good 11 1 0 1, 2 0 1, and now 3 0 1 review. But I think we gotta move on.
Neil Robinson: I think we did a pretty good job covering the basis. Yeah, so if you, if you wanna know more, once again, 11 1 0 1, 2 0 1, go back, check those episodes, plus we have ’em all, I’ll sprinkle it in on almost. A lot of the episodes, there’s always something about [00:29:00] EFT brought in because it’s just, it’s such a, it’s, it’s, I feel like he’s mocking me.
Absolutely not. No, it’s, it’s, it is one of those things that’s such, such a big part of our human nature that you can’t talk about mental health without bringing it up almost.
Chris Gazdik: I feel like, I really feel like, and if you’re a therapist listening out there, honestly it, it, it, Gottman is the originator of these concepts and Sue Johnson.
I like to think of sort of clinicalized it in her work hold me tight. So those are, it’s pivotal this more than anything pivotally changed, is pivotally a word? I think it is. Pivotally?
Neil Robinson: Pivotally.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, anyway, it pivotally changed the way that I operate with, with therapy, so. Alright, we got episode 298 on moral courage, and we titled it Overcoming Anxiety and Insecurity.
To stand strong and that was sort of added content [00:30:00] I think we’ve had a moral courage episode when this is now three times. I think I think so in 300 episodes It’s it’s it’s only three times but I because I remember doing it once with Matt a co host We used to have a non clinical co host after Craig now.
We have a panel of therapists Usually until Adam joins us I feel animosity towards you man.
Adam Cloninger: Why I don’t know. I don’t know They even gave you a cool iron curtain thing, man.
Chris Gazdik: You did, that makes it better. You should be happy. Okay, Could give him a little bit. So, so, Adam, have you heard us talk about moral courage?
Do you have any idea what that kind of even refers to or means?
Adam Cloninger: You gotta, like, have the courage to do what’s right. I
Chris Gazdik: guess that’s the, you know what I love about engulfment people? I can be so wordy and I lose people and I know that. So I try not to do that as much. [00:31:00] People that are engulfment I find are very like precise and just to the point and it’s so clear in so few words.
Say that again, what did you say?
Adam Cloninger: Oh. I don’t remember.
Chris Gazdik: Try again, what’s moral courage?
Adam Cloninger: The courage to do what’s right. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: yeah. And that’s what it gets down to I feel like. In the way that we’ve talked about it through therapy lens, it’s not really as much morals and ethics and things like that, though, that plays into it is, is really as the title we said in episode 298 overcoming anxiety and insecurity to stand strong.
Standing strong in a tough situation, standing up for somebody or dealing with a peacemaking situation, and that means you’re confronting both people in conflict. That’s what a peacemaker is. It isn’t easy. It’s, it’s tough and it’s, it’s pretty assertive. [00:32:00] That’s primarily the goal that I have when I talk about moral courage is to help people understand just how hard that is to do.
Right? How do we do, Neil? What do you hear from moral courage in the past? Right. I don’t know how many shows you were a part of those three.
Neil Robinson: I don’t know. I don’t know anymore. It’s all a blur at this point. It’s just I show up 300 episodes. Yeah, because I I think I think I mine was 91. I think was my introduction So I’ve been in 210 of these so it’s been kind of kind of crazy.
But no, I think I was just thinking about this what you said because this you know
I mean, one of the questions I have when you look at moral courage and you’re talking about morals and ethics, I think one of the, I feel like maybe one of the insecurities nowadays is Is my moral compass is my morals actually correct. So just because you see someone do something you don’t agree with, is that really the right thing to stand for?
Right? There’s [00:33:00] the, there’s the glaring obvious, right? You, you talked about, you know, the lady who’s about to get beat by her. Boyfriend or whatever, right? You know, obviously glaringly know what’s right and what’s wrong, right?
Chris Gazdik: Let me just tell that real quick because in the episode I gave the example in my neighborhood There was an event where we’re hanging out front porch sitting like you do in the south part of the states, I guess And it was a quiet night, and the next thing I know, over on the other side of the cul de sac, there’s a commotion, and a door blows open, and the wife, woman, comes out kind of first, and she goes over towards their swing.
He comes out, and he’s fired up. He is angry, and he kicks at the, the swing seat. And all I, I remember hearing him say, like, It’s the same thing all the time! So every day, every time, it’s the same stuff. It was a marital fight. And to your point, Neil you know, I wasn’t really sure what to, to do. I ended up calling out to another neighbor.
Who ended up being outside and we, you know, we, we [00:34:00] kind of dealt with it, but you don’t really know, do you?
Neil Robinson: Right. Yeah. And that’s, I feel like, and then also in today’s society, you know, when you stand your ground, what if someone else looks at it and says, well, that’s, that wasn’t right. You don’t know the whole story or, you know, the litigious nature of, of today’s society, right?
You go to protect someone that you think is having an issue and then. Something happens in the other person comes after you, right? There, there’s a lot of stuff now when it comes to moral courage and standing your ground and being strong. There’s a lot of anxiety because you don’t know what’s going to happen to you later that you don’t know.
And then the insecurities are, am I in the right, you know, am I really standing for the right reason? Am I really. Is this my, is this a time that I really have to stand up for the certain situation, right? Because there’s all these variables and gray areas and, and I think that’s the biggest part when you look at this.
It’s not matter of, you know, there’s always a question. Will I, will I stand up when I need to do what’s right? But now the question goes back to what’s, what’s right. In some areas, right. So now you have those insecurities. [00:35:00] Am I actually standing up for the right thing?
Chris Gazdik: Adam, I just love that he said litigious.
What a cool word. Is it, is that, is that correct though? Or is it litigous? Litigacious? What is, is it litigious? I
Neil Robinson: don’t know. I just throw things out there. You can do legalistic or you can, but litigious, I think that’s right. And I love
Chris Gazdik: it. That’s a great word to play off that. Yeah. You know, I really talk at length when we do this content on moral courage about how hard it is to do and.
You know, if you think about, like, just a bully situation, I don’t really like the term bully, I’m not gonna go into that, I just think it doesn’t focus on the whole situation well enough, but people understand what that is, when you’re a bystander and a bully is taking apart a, whatever, the other person, I like to call them the object person, it’s, it’s abusive, but You’d like to think out of me i’m just gonna step [00:36:00] in i’m not gonna let somebody hurt somebody else I’m gonna just step in i’m gonna do that.
I’ll speak up i’ll stand out. But will you do you because That really as you’re talking about neil that mean that Brings a lot of attention back on to you. You take a lot of risk. It’s it’s terrifying.
Adam Cloninger: Well, I think everybody’s got a like a limit like, you know, certain things everyone’s there’s gonna be certain things that everybody’s be like Just let it go.
It’s not worth it. And then when somebody does something when they cross a certain line And you’re like, okay, now I gotta step in. I think everybody’s got that, it’s just a matter of where that line is. I agree with you, but there’s a part of
Chris Gazdik: me that disagrees, and here’s, here’s why. When you’re, part of what we’re talking about is a traumatic situation.
And we know in traumatic situations, a good old friend, amygdala kicks in. And that is a fight or flight. And that is usually what people think about, fight or flight. But there’s another word here fight, fight, flight, or freeze. [00:37:00] So there’s a freezing that happens a lot of times for people. And you want a really good example of that?
You can watch the movie Saving Private Ryan. There’s a, there’s a particular scene. Have either of you seen that movie? Yeah. It’s an awesome movie, right? Do you remember that movie where Opie? He is the guy that is supposed to, towards the end of the movie, carry ammunition from one space to the next to support the people that are firing at the enemy, the German enemies coming across the bridge.
And there’s a guy particularly in the bell tower, right? You remember that scene? Powerful, powerful scene. Would you agree? Yeah. So Opie standing in the, in, in the, on the precipice on the stairwell going up and he hears the commotion and he. He hears the fight and he recognizes voices. One is the companion that he is taking ammunition to and his companions begging for his life because the German gets on top of him in a very slow and painful, dramatic, [00:38:00] scary, horrible fashion, plunges the knife and, and, and kills the American and the hand to hand comment just.
Ends and it’s all silent Opie’s still standing on the stairs and the german turns the corner and is at the top of the stairs And they lock eyes and opie just freezes. I mean, he’s literally got a gun. He’s got ammunition He’s got everything he needs but he just freezes And it’s a slow step down the steps and he literally had to move his body out of the way so the german can cross his path and Continue going back to battle and the German didn’t kill him either.
So he wasn’t frozen, but Opie froze. So when you’re in a tough situation, I mean, that’s what many
Adam Cloninger: people can feel. I mean, Well, see his line was, it was life threatening. His line was, I’m not willing to risk my life. What I’m saying
Chris Gazdik: is, No, I don’t think that he made that calculus. I think that what amygdala was in a [00:39:00] terror state and he was unable to move.
That happens. You literally freeze. You cannot function. Sometimes people will even, like, sort of black out and, and just not even recall the events and stuff. Right? That’s a trauma response.
Adam Cloninger: Okay.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. It’s, it’s very powerful. Like, if you’re in an apartment And you hear a very violent fight through the walls, upstairs or downstairs.
That’s really, really hard to leave your apartment, go downstairs, knock on the door, and say, Hey, is everything okay here?
Adam Cloninger: Now,
Chris Gazdik: I would li I know. Not me, bud. I know, man. Ha ha ha ha, no. I know. I would like to think I’m going to take that action. And I do think that I would. But you really, really don’t know until you’re in that situation and where your line is.
You know, what risks are you willing and able to take?
Adam Cloninger: I think that’s that [00:40:00] abandonment thing still. You want to talk about it. I’m like, nah, don’t get me involved. I don’t deal with it. I don’t want to If y’all get pull out guns, I don’t want to be somebody you’re gonna be shooting. I’m gonna stay out of this You know what?
I never really thought about
Chris Gazdik: that actually adam You’re you’re you’re that that makes a lot of sense this eft stuff does apply there because abandonment people Can we say that abandonment people would be more likely to step in would you they’re they’re
Neil Robinson: nosy? Yeah Would you
I gave him a high
Adam Cloninger: five on that one. Yeah, that was good. . But no,
Neil Robinson: we, we’ve had that situation before. ’cause we had some, some bad renters and stuff and my wife’s driving like, go talk to them. Go, go tell ’em. Go tell ’em to boom. Like, just leave ’em alone. They’ll be fine. Just leave ’em alone. Yeah. And they out of it.
I ended up having to go like the next day ’cause it was like two nights in the row and I go out and I go talk to the guy and it’s like all his buddies come. I’m my god crap.
Adam Cloninger: Oh this is not good.
Neil Robinson: It was, this is a big deal because I know he’s like, oh,
Adam Cloninger: they gotta go do something.
Neil Robinson: The worst part, the worst [00:41:00] part later Legitimately, the lady who lived there was filming OnlyFans shorts in the middle of our cul de sac
Adam Cloninger: playing
Neil Robinson: horribly raunchy rap music while my wife was about to have an online teaching class with kids.
And I legit had to walk out there with this lady in some skimpy clothes and like, be like, Hey, can you like, my wife has a class in like 30 minutes. Can you wrap it up? It
Adam Cloninger: was an interesting neighbor. This is a good comedy skit here. I say comedian saying, talking about this.
Chris Gazdik: It’s real life, man. It’s real life.
It is really, really tough to overcome your anxiety and take into a situation, you know, you have many situations where women over the years have had employers that have been sexually harassing. And it’s, it’s, it’s a hell of a thing to stand up to a power structure like that. Now So we absolutely have men in situations of a power dynamic where [00:42:00] a female is their superior and they’re being or another
Adam Cloninger: man,
Chris Gazdik: or another man, absolutely.
And, and, and does everyone else in the unit speak up about this? Who goes to the superiors and say, Hey, you’re, you’re being harassing of this, this person.
Neil Robinson: Well, there was that one lady, some executive at like a Google type place. And she, she got wasted at a Christmas party and basically. You know, I know.
Yeah. And there was a big deal about that one because it’s like it was
Chris Gazdik: Netflix. You know, it was a gaming. It was, I don’t remember which one it
Neil Robinson: was, but yeah, it was one of the big companies. She doing the harassing. Yes. It was like their manager supervisor, like a high level person. And she was pretty much drunk and she was basically hitting on a guy like heavily, like really, really bad.
And so it’s just one of those things because it’s just a, yeah. Do you stand up to her? Because then you could lose your job or then you do these, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I don’t
Chris Gazdik: want to be in that situation. I mean, can you see Chris
Adam Cloninger: approaching the woman boss and saying, [00:43:00] sorry, you’re being a little too touchy feely with Bob here.
Chris Gazdik: I mean, it’s, it’s edgy, isn’t it? Because what does touchy feely mean? You know, I mean, back to your original point, Neil, honestly, like, do you, do you feel confident that you’re right in your moral or ethical or what’s right and what’s wrong assessment.
Neil Robinson: Yeah, exactly. I mean, in today’s society, everyone just like mind your own business, right?
Because just because you don’t think it’s right, maybe they like that. You never know, right? You don’t know those situations. So that’s, that’s, I think what we’re going to see once again, that’s a lot of the insecurities comes in because do I know. Everything about the situation. Because once again, if you go in and you’re under the wrong assumption, it’s always those, those kinds of those jokes about, you know, the one person getting beat up and find out he’s just retaliated because he’s been bullied and you stopped the person beating them up when really he’s the victim of bullying and you just didn’t know the whole story, right?[00:44:00]
There’s a lot of pieces we don’t know. So those insecurities comes in. And then once again, what happens after the fact, you know, do I need to be involved or not involved? Like there’s all these things because of the idea of community. It’s not really here anymore. So it’s very fair, few and far between.
And it’s just an interesting thing about community, as you’ve said before, it’s easy to have moral courage when you get a
Chris Gazdik: group behind you, awesome transition, because that’s one of the answers here. One of the answers that we land on as sort of suggestion or process is you do not have to be alone in the situation that you find yourself in.
The domestic violence situation, go get a couple of neighbors and, and deal with this together have a community meal and, and, and do this as a community and address the issue. I think on episode 298, I gave the example as well of the dog. Did I talk about the dog this
Neil Robinson: time? You’ve talked about it before, yeah.
Chris Gazdik: [00:45:00] Yeah, and, and so we had a, we had a neighbor that had a, a pit bull and tried to tell everybody it wasn’t a pit. Pets are great. I mean, German Shepherds, big dogs, they’re, they’re fine, but they’re, they’re an awesome responsibility for the dog owner. And I remember this, this dog, you know, my son was, I mean, if he was 10, that’s, that’s a lot.
He, you know, under single digit age, and he’s laying on his back on the ground, and the dog is literally jumping from one side of my son all the way to the other. over top of him to the other, to the other, to the other, just jumping back and forth. The dog wanted to play, but, I mean, my little kid, if he, wrong bad moment, that dog could Right, right.
have killed him. Right. Could have killed him.
Adam Cloninger: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: And we got together as a neighborhood. And about six or seven of us and went and had just a conversation and say, Hey, look, we’re concerned about this. This is a, this is, this is happening. He was letting the dog just loose with all the kids. And it was kind of like, look, we’re not comfortable with that.
But to have a one on one conversation, Neil, with that person was very [00:46:00] different than when you have, you know, A group talking about confronting a tough situation.
Neil Robinson: Yeah, and it does, and that serves two purposes. One, when you’re confronting someone, they’re less likely to be defensive when there’s seven people staring at them, right?
The other part of it is, when you do see seven people coming at you, you start realizing, well, maybe I am in the wrong, right? There’s, it serves two purposes. It forces them to slow down so they don’t immediately jump on a defensive mechanism. But the other part is, if there’s seven more people, and saying the same thing, then maybe I am in the wrong in this situation, right?
So I’m going to make sure
Chris Gazdik: and I take Adam with me because Adam will take him out.
Neil Robinson: Exactly.
Chris Gazdik: I don’t know what I’d have to do if I had to confront Adam. Neil, I don’t know, man. I mean, we’re, we need, we need a big group, right? He knows, he knows a lot. He doesn’t look like it, but this guy is scary, man. This guy.
Alright, let’s move on to episode two. You enjoyed that, didn’t you? I did like that. Did I make up for [00:47:00] having animosity? Oh, yes. Okay, good. Episode 299, Love and Logic for Parenting, Raising Responsible and Resilient Kids. The three questions on this show were, Do I struggle with either being too controlling or too lenient as a parent?
And then how can I shift my parenting approach to encourage more responsibility and problem solving in my child? And that’s honestly the big thing here when we talk about this. As a part of my trifecta, one of the three primary things that I rely on. And there are other parenting models, by the way, out there that are kind of similar.
They all have different components, but a lot of what we’re looking at here is helping your child to learn ways to make decisions, to problem solve, to learn when they fail, to allow them to struggle. That’s hard as a parent to get into doing. Right. So love and logic. Do [00:48:00] you, do you remember Neil, the, the, the logic line of how things go with this?
I got to put you on the spot. You know, I do that.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. And I, I, I still don’t get it. And my wife and I discussed this at length with her, with her. With her educational background. It’s definitely I need to get a book from you about love and logic. So my wife can read it so she can, so she can interpret it like based on what she says, if you have it, because there’s things that we, the way that it gets described, it drives her crazy.
So, but that’s the one thing. So basically the idea is you give your kids. More freedom to let them live their life. As long as you’re not affecting everyone else, say it, say it, say, no, I’m not. Come on, you can do it.
Chris Gazdik: So basically he doesn’t want to say the first part of this is little Johnny. You can do whatever you want to do.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. I’m not saying that you can’t stand it. So, and I think it was interesting because John Nelson talked about this as more of a libertarian approach to life, right? Which was interesting, but the idea is that you let the kids. You, you give them a lot of rope to do what they want to do with the idea that until it becomes a problem for [00:49:00] someone else, they pretty much have free range to make choices.
Right now, when it becomes a problem, you, you try to give them rope. You kind of let them fix the problem on their own, right? That’s the goal, right? You let them think about what happened. Oh, shoot. This is the unintended consequences. I deal with that with my 16 year old. Now, when he does something, he doesn’t puzzle the way and like,
Adam Cloninger: So what’s the part you’re having a problem with?
Neil Robinson: Telling little Johnny that he can do whatever he wants. Well, think of it this way.
Adam Cloninger: You’re basically telling them you can do whatever you want, but As long as Yeah, so you’re really not telling them they can do anything.
Neil Robinson: Right, but But So how many kids listen after you say but?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah,
Neil Robinson: I
Chris Gazdik: can do anything,
Neil Robinson: but then the idea is if they don’t fix the problem afterwards, then, then the parent comes in to fix it for them.
Right? Whatever, whatever it is, whatever the consequences are right now. Now, now the way that it gets described is, you know, you, you passive aggressively go behind the kid and you fix it. That’s, that’s, that’s how I, so the first few [00:50:00] times that Chris has described it to me, that’s the, that’s the way he described it.
Like, Oh, you just passive aggressively. Yeah. Be petty. I never said that. No, but that’s, that’s the way he interprets, but be petty. Listen, so basically the idea is you, you fix the problem for them. The kid now has consequences, whatever it is that you deem necessary, but you give the child a chance to live their life.
Consequences, try to fix your problems. And if you can’t, then you step in. You don’t, you don’t, as we talked about, you’re not a snowplow parent where you’ve Fix everything beforehand. You’re not a helicopter parent, basically helping them through everything. You’re not going back and just solving all their problems without them even knowing that they had consequences.
Like they, they should be aware of every part of the situation. And that’s the important part because there’s a lot of kids. I think nowadays that they’re sheltered when they do make a mistake, the parent does step in and the kid happens.
Adam Cloninger: They’re like, just. They’re they’re losing it. Yeah.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. Yeah. So I love the idea but I really hate the way sometimes you describe it [00:51:00]
Chris Gazdik: Adam the simple logic line is little Johnny you do anything you want to do as long as you don’t cause a problem for somebody else oh.
I see what you did there There’s a problem. You need to fix it. You need to fix the problem. And then inevitably the kid’s not gonna see right, that there’s a problem and they’re not gonna fix it. No problem, Johnny. Don’t worry about it. We’ll, I’ll fix the problem. And then you leave it alone. You, the whole idea is a high structure.
Learning life lessons. While you’re avoiding power struggles that those are those are key components
Adam Cloninger: But at some point you got you got to be a little more stern than that.
Chris Gazdik: Well, well, oh, it’s it’s stern Yeah, i’m talking about like i’m
Adam Cloninger: gonna take care of it But it’s
Chris Gazdik: it’s it’s the kid learns and this is much easier to do when you got little kids Because the little kids learn this process.
Oh Smack mom just said Don’t worry about it. I’ll take care of it. What’s coming? What’s coming and the kid gets Anxious. I mean, they get freaked out. They get worried [00:52:00] because they know something’s coming, and they don’t necessarily know what, but they know that they missed their opportunity to fix the problem, and now the problem is going to be fixed.
But you know why
Adam Cloninger: they’re worried?
Chris Gazdik: Because something’s coming down.
Adam Cloninger: Because mama did something for them in the past. Right.
Chris Gazdik: They know there’s a
Adam Cloninger: consequence.
Chris Gazdik: Exactly. And so this gets ingrained into like, look, if you fix the problem, then there’s, this is great. You, you know, you, you, you’ve learned, and, and I’m compassionate for your struggle.
You can give suggestions and ideas a little bit. There’s a lot to this Love and Logic stuff. But, inevitably, the kid’s not gonna see a problem, and they’re not gonna fix it, and you have to fix it for them. Which means, it’s not petty, Neil. It’s not passive aggressive, Neil. It’s coming around the back end.
To give the life lesson. So if you’re not studying and you’re causing a problem for us because we get you a tutor and [00:53:00] therefore you need to go pick up sticks in the backyard and earn money so that you literally hand. The tutor 20 that you earned. Right. That’s fixing the problem. Now you gonna do your homework?
I’ll give you
Adam Cloninger: 25 pick up sticks, but you’re giving 20 of it to the tutor.
Chris Gazdik: No, 20. I’m giving my own pay.
Adam Cloninger: I’m giving you 18 for a stick, but you gotta pay him 20. Oh, okay.
Chris Gazdik: I see what you’re saying, yeah. How about that? I don’t, I don’t have any, I never had any problem turning screws that way, cause this really is, this is high structure, this is standing into a situation, but fine, you don’t want to do your homework?
I’m not going to be in a power struggle. How many times do you get into a power struggle with your kid? Mom out there, dad out there, seriously, how many times do you get in a power struggle? And here’s the dirty little secret, turn the mic, mics off and sound down if kids are in the car. Okay? Here’s the deal.
Parents, you won’t win. I don’t care if kids hear that, actually. [00:54:00] You will not likely win a power struggle with your kid.
Neil Robinson: I would argue.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Argue all you want. I would argue that if you’re You just don’t.
Neil Robinson: You have to My wife has won many power struggles with my kids. Especially my oldest, who is very, very stubborn.
Chris Gazdik: When you win a power struggle, you are shutting the kid down. You are You are, you are creating fear. You are creating insecurities unintentionally because you’re disempowering the kid. Now I’m all about corporal punishment for little guys and gals. I’m all about high structure and consequences and all of that for sure.
But when you’re doing a power struggle and you quote unquote win, all right, give me the remote control to the PlayStation. No, give it to me now. And you take it out of their hands. Are you winning?
Neil Robinson: Not really. It depends the road that led to that, that point. There, there’s a lot to when you deal with power struggles and you win in my experience with my wife who has her degree and birth to connect all the stuff that she has in the past, we have a great relationship with our kids [00:55:00] and part of that is because we have a structure and a process.
That allows us to basically pull the parent trump card that we still are your parent and we get the final say, but we also very clearly state if you did this wrong, you lose this, you lose this privilege, but we give them a lot. We actually. Really, when you think about it, we live a very similar love and logic idea because we want our kids to understand these types of situations.
But to me, to say that you never win a power struggle, that means because you haven’t set a good foundation in your relationship as a parent child, that a kid should not win a power struggle.
Chris Gazdik: The whole idea is to get away from a debate of winning. is winning is all that matters. Winning is all that
Neil Robinson: matters.
Adam Cloninger: If you’re not first, you’re last.
Chris Gazdik: Oh man.
Neil Robinson: But no, and I understand because
Chris Gazdik: Let me finish that because if you’re in a power struggle you’ve already kind of gotten [00:56:00] into a bad situation. The whole goal is so that they make good decisions in the first place. And you don’t have those power struggles. And honestly, when you’re, when you’re having the compassion and you’re having the love and the support, your kid knows that feels that.
And honestly, they feel horrible when they screw something up and they usually fix their own problem in the first place. So you don’t really need to get to power struggles.
Neil Robinson: And maybe that’s where I’m thinking about when you, maybe I’m maybe in my head. I’m thinking of our arguments or our discussions or stuff in our house.
We never really had power struggles because if they did go after Alicia and like, they were, they were like, I’m not listening. Like I come in and I’m like, okay, power struggle over because we have a hierarchy. We have a respect. We have a foundation across the board. Right? So I guess maybe in that case, if you have an issue with the relationship, parent child relationship, it does become a power struggle.
And then that is really hard. And here’s,
Chris Gazdik: and here’s a good tip to you being in this situation. The tip is, how do you [00:57:00] feel as the parent when you’re going in to deal with a situation? Because I want you to be level, calm. comfortable, even kind of happy that you get to deal with a situation because ultimately you’re teaching the kids something.
But Adam, that’s not the way we go about situations, Adam Cloninger: right? No, I’m thinking just talking about this is stressing me out. It’s stressful. I remember sometimes just, oh my god, I’m gonna kill him.