Do men and/or women enjoy one-night stands?
Let’s be real—one-night stands can be thrilling, awkward, empowering, disappointing… or all of the above. In this episode, we unpack what really motivates people to hook up for just one night and why the emotional aftermath can hit so differently for everyone. Do men and women experience these encounters the same way? What role do dating apps, personal insecurities, or even societal double standards play in how we feel afterward? From stories of satisfaction to moments of serious regret, we explore how expectations, past wounds, and cultural messages shape the way we connect (or disconnect) in the bedroom. We finish the show by asking the big question: what does sex actually mean to you – and is it ever really just sex?
Tune in to see if One-Night Stands are Worth It Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- What motivates individuals to engage in one-night stands? Psychology Today
- How do societal perceptions influence personal experiences of casual sex? Phys.org+4PMC+4The Guardian+4
- What factors contribute to satisfaction or regret following a one-night stand? PMC+2Phys.org+2Medical News Today+2
Links referenced during the show:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8853360/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
https://phys.org/news/2017-01-night.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/selfmanagement
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
Audio Podcast Version Only
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Episode #308 Transcription
Victoria Pendergrass: me? Yeah. Welcome to Third Hair. Besides, I guess,
Chris Gazdik: yes,
Victoria Pendergrass: that intro. You gotta do the whole
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. I, I just bombed. Look, I’m posting on
Victoria Pendergrass: social media right now for us, so that’s okay. We need
Chris Gazdik: to focus on the show.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay. Well, I’m trying to get people to listen to the show.
Chris Gazdik: Well, we’re, we’re doing the
John-Nelson Pope: show, John, save us.
I don’t know. This is, I da
Chris Gazdik: Listen, this is April Dead Air 17th, 2025. The show topic is going to be, is a [00:01:00] one night, one time stand. Why am I saying night Man? We need to, well, restart.
John-Nelson Pope: Well, that is an unusual wording of that, isn’t it? One night stand usually the, the way it’s presented. Oh, well, I
Chris Gazdik: admit that’s a typo, isn’t it?
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Is a one night stand worth it? I have written time. That, that’s funny, John. Yeah,
John-Nelson Pope: because I, I, that’s when I saw it, I was what? I was, yeah. I was a little confused and I was thinking, well, maybe it’s because the afternoon delight aspect of this, well get it right on the
Chris Gazdik: website and on the show title.
It’s supposed to be one night stand. Yes, indeed. Is a one night stand worth. It is episode 3 0 8. If you catch this for the first time, we have a YouTube live. It’s up six 15 to six 30 on Thursday nights. Please check that out. And you can see Victoria’s cute face and John’s awesome hair maybe.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. Lack of hair, beard or lack hair.
Yeah, some on some beard. Thank you.
Chris Gazdik: All right. This is where you get personal [00:02:00] insights directly from a panel of therapist and. Time in your car or at home knowing it’s not delivery of therapy service in any way. This is a episode that we need to give a, what do you call it? A disclaimer, I guess, right?
To say that we are gonna be talking about sexuality. If you have kids in the car and whatnot, just understand we’re gonna keep you clean, family friendly, but, you know, understand. I’m not
John-Nelson Pope: sure about Victoria.
Chris Gazdik: You’re not sure about Victoria? Well, you might have to explain that. Keep it Victoria. Should we just let that go?
Yeah, let let it go. Take it for what it is. Take it for what it is. All right. We’re not gonna take it personally. What else do I say? This is the human emotional experience, Mr. Pope, which we do endeavor to figure out. And we
John-Nelson Pope: do want to get five stars. And you might wanna leave a comment and well, yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Leave a comment. A
John-Nelson Pope: very positive
Chris Gazdik: comment in the south to say mesh the subscribe button. All right. There’s three questions. Well, also,
Victoria Pendergrass: we’re not, this is not a delivery of therapy services.
Chris Gazdik: You were on your phone when I said that. He said that. Oh, sorry. Hey, look. [00:03:00]
Victoria Pendergrass: Just double checking.
Chris Gazdik: Neil, the crew is doing what today?
Now this is the
John-Nelson Pope: myth of multitasking.
Chris Gazdik: What’s going It is the myth. Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. And, and that females, I was not listening to y’all. I’m being honest. Females is supposed to be better at it. We are
Victoria Pendergrass: better at it. What are you talking about? Look, I do not represent all females. So just because I am not good at it does not mean that generalization the female in your life is not good at it either.
They are.
John-Nelson Pope: So we cannot say general ability.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. I do not represent all women. I will fight for all women, but I do not represent all women.
John-Nelson Pope: I
Chris Gazdik: am woman. The three question, the three questions of the day are what motivates individuals to engage in one night Stands. Specifically, what motivates you to be in, if you’ve ever been in a one night stand uhhuh.
And then how do societal perceptions influence personal experiences of casual sex? And then what factors contribute to satisfaction or regret? Mm-hmm. Following a one night stand.
Victoria Pendergrass: Mm. So I
Chris Gazdik: am curious [00:04:00] is what you guys thought about the topic when you saw this is the score.
Victoria Pendergrass: I’m gonna be honest, I was a little confused since it was typo.
Chris Gazdik: Well, okay. I did
Victoria Pendergrass: not put two and two together.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, you did? So you didn’t even know.
Victoria Pendergrass: No. Wow. I
John-Nelson Pope: knew immediately because I am, have a prurient mind
Victoria Pendergrass: because you’ve had so many.
John-Nelson Pope: No, I have never had a one night stand.
Victoria Pendergrass: Should we first define what a one night stand is?
Chris Gazdik: We most certainly should, but I’d like to make a topic or a a point right off the gate that.
I is, you know, in the YouTube version before we did the live mics for the shows and stuff, I ask pay attention to nonverbals Uhhuh. Right. Pay attention to the facial expressions. Right? Yeah. And we’re a panel of therapists. We talk about sex all the time in therapy, right? Mm-hmm. Like that’s a thing. It’s it’s a thing.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: But when you do, what do you guys observe? Happens to me, in my opinion, most high percentage of [00:05:00] the time you hear what,
Victoria Pendergrass: eh,
John-Nelson Pope: you hear sub vocalization or gross, you get I don’t wanna talk about that. Ew. Not
Chris Gazdik: avoidance
John-Nelson Pope: down. Avoidance down. Yeah. Shut down. I, I, I also think that as therapists, we, we’re not in a profession, we are in a more of an, an educational, I.
Mode. But if we were in our, our counseling rooms or therapy rooms, we would offices, we would be much more serious about it.
Chris Gazdik: Go ahead.
Victoria Pendergrass: So I think also, and we might get into this later or not, but I also think that sometimes depends on, I I do think that like having the same sex as you therapist sometimes adds, like, makes it easier.
[00:06:00] So sometimes I find that when I talk about sex with my male clients as a female therapist, sometimes they’re like, oh, I didn’t know if we could talk about that. I didn’t know if we could if we could like if that was something we could talk about or whatever. Right. But with female therapist, I mean with female clients in my office, it’s like.
We get right into it, like there’s no head there. I mean, yes, sometimes I do have the occasional client that’s like, you know, a little bit more sheltered or a little bit more shy and just doesn’t feel as comfortable talking about those things. But I do think that sometimes having, and I don’t know how it is for male therapists and a male client, like, I don’t know if that’s different for y’all, but for me, I’ve noticed that.
Chris Gazdik: Well, it’s interesting, right? Because I, I think that, and John, I’d be curious what your experience with this is, that that trump’s mind in, in years a lot. In some ways, right? Like I, I, I recall being a young therapist
Victoria Pendergrass: mm-hmm.
Chris Gazdik: And being completely taken aback. Like, oh my gosh, Jeff shook my trainer. It, my, my, he hired my first major gig after grad school, and he did it in-service [00:07:00] training, and it was on sexuality and whatever.
I also remember a, a training that we did in my graduate practicum, but it was horrible, John. Mm-hmm. I was the only dude in like a room full of women as college students and expert professionals in the room. And they set us up in the front of the stage dealing with desensitization of the topic,
Victoria Pendergrass: right.
Chris Gazdik: And I’m the only dude there, and they’re like, pretend like we’re aliens and tell us all the funny words and all the things that people do, and all about sexuality and stuff. And I’m like, I mean, I’m done melting, you know? I’m like, oh my God. But after I did therapy for a few years and I realized like, yeah, you, we could train on this.
We can talk about this. Like, I don’t have any, I mean, I could sit in the room with two dudes talking about all kinds of things and with women, and perfectly fine. I can sit with
Victoria Pendergrass: couples and.
John-Nelson Pope: Well, no, I, I think I don’t have a problem. Male or female? Yeah. Or I just intersex or, and I’m not
Victoria Pendergrass: saying that I have a, I’m saying my clients seem to like that.
Seems do [00:08:00] I think there’s a basis
Chris Gazdik: going on and there’s, but then
Victoria Pendergrass: typically once I open it up and I say that, Hey, this is a comfortable conversation we can have, I will, I will. Yeah. You lead it. Yeah. Then afterwards, they’re more willing to bring up issues when they, when that revolve around sex or thi or things that they wanna tell me.
Chris Gazdik: Because my point to you listening in the front end of this whole conversation, what you really need to understand, ’cause I know there’s a lot of people that are like thinking it’s no big deal and there’s a flippant attitude and about, you know, sex and sexuality and all that kind of stuff. And I just want to suggest that that can be experienced.
But generally what is happening is all the reality stuff is suppressed, avoided, you know, minimized. Because I’m gonna almost submit to you that a hundred percent of the time. If not dang close. There are massive insecurities around this topic. Mm-hmm. There are massive discomforts. Mm-hmm. There are like avoidance and like all kinds of things.
Even people that are talking, you guys out there talking a big game. I’ve done it [00:09:00] with you. You know, the, the, the fact is there are all kinds of doubts, fears, and insecurities about this. Mm-hmm. Does that sound, I mean, that sounds, is that very, that even fair statement? Yeah. So the idea is you get giggles.
Yeah. Giggles. You get weird feelings. You getnick or snickering. Snickering and Yeah. Lightheartedness. It’s because people are trying to shed off the weirdness that they feel about the topic I submit to you. Yeah. Yep. Right. And so this is, this can be a hard topic for that reason, I mean mm-hmm. It’s one that I actually wrote a marriage book about, and I was anxious, Hey, by the way, John, I got a book out there.
You wanna know the title of it?
John-Nelson Pope: Yes, I would, I would, I want you to repeat it seven times through a
Chris Gazdik: therapist’s eyes re understanding your marriage and becoming your best as a spouse. It’s all hard to say, but I didn’t want to add sexuality in the book and I thought, wait a minute, that’s stupid. You know, it needs to be, so I have three different chapters on it.
Mm-hmm. You know, to, to, because like, but there, but I felt like a risk that you understand being an author, by the way, man. I’m telling you. Yeah. I
Victoria Pendergrass: [00:10:00] don’t, it’s, I mean, I read a lot. It’s weird. So I can maybe empathize, like, you write
Chris Gazdik: this whole book and it goes out to everywhere in the world and it’s kinda like, holy crap, that means they’re gonna read what I thought.
Yeah. Yeah. It’s kind of scary first.
John-Nelson Pope: Well, it’s my dissertation in Yeah. All over. A hundred percent. I’ll, I get notified every time somebody reads my dissertation. Yeah. And I kind of. Freak out a little bit about it. Every talk. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: I don’t know if I’ll ever use, and you’re like, oh my gosh, what are they gonna think about it?
Blah, blah, blah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, look, the human condition is wrought with insecurities. That is just a fact. And if you deny that about yourself, those are gonna be there and they’ll be in the undercurrent. So this whole topic is a one night stand worth it, you know? Do men and or women enjoy them?
Is it, we have to acknowledge the umbrella. Mm-hmm. And the umbrella of the foundation, if you will, I’m gonna submit to you, resides in mm-hmm. Hurts, fears, and insecurities. Mm-hmm. Let’s talk about sex, baby. That’s a song. [00:11:00] Let’s
Victoria Pendergrass: talk about You and Me. Surprised that John’s not hitting that one. Victoria’s talk bad things.
Chris Gazdik: So you wanted to define, I dunno, thatAnd a little bit. What are we talking about, Victoria?
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay. So a one night stand, at least in. My definition, which apparently you and I, do you remember when we had a conversation about this?
Chris Gazdik: I do not.
Victoria Pendergrass: And I had a completely different understanding of a one night stand than what you did.
Chris Gazdik: I do not. I’m kind of got a blank.
Victoria Pendergrass: Huh?
Chris Gazdik: I got a blank.
Victoria Pendergrass: This was like probably last year. Uhhuh. Because you a Because we had a conversation where we talked about it
Chris Gazdik: like just you and I off the air or whatever. Yeah. Did you, did you hallucinate it?
Victoria Pendergrass: No, I did not. Okay. So most people would define a one night stand as someone that you hook up with, meaning someone that you have some sort of sex with, whether it’s intercourse, oral, whatever, and then you like, don’t ever see them again.
Chris Gazdik: Okay.
Victoria Pendergrass: You don’t like, it’s not a, you don’t ever sleep with them again. Usually you might probably won’t see them again. [00:12:00] Like Yeah. Or maybe
Chris Gazdik: sex on the first date. Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: Okay. Are, are we talking about just. With, and I’m gonna say your generation. Okay. Okay. It’s a song, my generation by the who. But the, the, the thing is, is that there’s a f buddy.
Fuck buddy. Excuse my language.
Chris Gazdik: We haven’t marked as explicit. We say anything we
John-Nelson Pope: need to Okay. And, and so and mm-hmm. They can be in your friend group. And that’s one time and that’s one time only.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yes. So,
John-Nelson Pope: and so Did I say this, this correctly? ‘
Chris Gazdik: cause I, because I, I think so. That’s the way I see it, John. Yeah.
What? But you intrigued me, Victoria.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, the way I saw it is just one person that you sleep with one time, but then you still see them
because. So, I mean, I don’t necessarily define it that way. I was, I guess we were just all around. So you’re being
Chris Gazdik: a little more broad. You’re including people that you might still relate with or relate to or a friendship with, but, and I
Victoria Pendergrass: think the [00:13:00] example I used was like college. Yeah. So like if I sleep with someone that I went to college with, well then I might still, especially at a small school like Gardner Webb, like I’m gonna see them in the cap.
This’s Baptist, I’m gonna see them. Well, I don’t think we’re affiliated anymore. Oh, okay. But like, I’m gonna see them in the cafeteria. I’m gonna see them walking around campus like, yeah, you might, I might not ever have friendship for
Chris Gazdik: relationship
Victoria Pendergrass: or I just am gonna see them.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: So like, well, would we define that as a one night stand?
Chris Gazdik: I think so, yeah. I would absolute like
Victoria Pendergrass: it was a one time thing. A hundred percent. But you still, well, where did we disagree? You told me that that wasn’t a thing.
Chris Gazdik: I don’t remember that conversation first off. So that’s interesting. Yeah. I don’t know why I would say that. ’cause that sounds. I mean, it sounds like you just de described the same, the two descriptions are the same.
Yeah. ‘
Victoria Pendergrass: cause I was talking about my personal experiences.
Chris Gazdik: Okay.
Victoria Pendergrass: Which we’ll not get into on this podcast. That might be fun.
Chris Gazdik: Here’s the giggles, John. You know what I mean? Uhhuh, it’s, I don’t mind
Victoria Pendergrass: talking. Look, you know me. I’m an open book. I’ll sit here and talk about it all day long. You know, [00:14:00]
Chris Gazdik: I, I think that there’s, so, yeah, I, I don’t think it’s too far.
So, so that we hit the
Victoria Pendergrass: nail on the head somewhere in there. Okay.
John-Nelson Pope: I Go ahead. You know, I’m gonna jump right in and I’m gonna in trouble for this, but I’m someone, when I do marital counseling and I hear the stories of the, of the couples and they tell. Everything about what they did in the past. Yeah. Oh yeah.
And guess what, when there is conflict in the, in the, the, between the couple, and I don’t care how long it had been married, they could have been married 40 years. Okay. And they’ll bring that, that stuff, well, you had sex with so and so and this time,
Chris Gazdik: 37 years ago. 37 years
John-Nelson Pope: ago. And my sense of it is when one gets, I think, intimate with a partner, you don’t have to tell ’em everything.
You, you tell ’em, you know that you’ve had a past or something like that, but you [00:15:00] don’t, you don’t go into details. ’cause that can be used as a, are you saying, are you saying that’s painful? It’s, it’s, it’s a classics.
Chris Gazdik: Thank you for making that teaching point, John, that we’re not gonna talk about affairs today.
Correct. You see that? That’s a different show.
John-Nelson Pope: I know,
Chris Gazdik: but we see that a lot in therapy. And you’re right. People will, this is
John-Nelson Pope: even before they got married.
Chris Gazdik: Right? Even before you knew your spouse or whatever. This can come back up, but. In a situation of an affair, Uhhuh, the direct suggestion that has sound stability is to suggest you do not share the details.
Right? Because the details, even in a reconciliation of an affair, do harm uhhuh. You can’t unhear what you hear. You can’t unsee what you saw. That’s why checking texts might be necessary. Yes, I said that. If you’re suspicious of your spouse or whatnot, uhhuh, but the reality of that is, is you’re doing pain to yourself when you do that.
So yes, iChecking prior sex history, the same thing, John.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah, that’s right. I think because I, I, [00:16:00] the idea is, is that one needs to come with a clean slate and just, and I think that that uncomplicates things.
Chris Gazdik: Well, let me add, and maybe I disagree with you actually. I don’t think I will. We’re usually pretty locked step, but I wanna quantify that a little bit.
Go ahead By saying. Of course when you’re developing a relationship with somebody and it’s becoming more connected, you’re going to be closer and you do need to share your experience. We’re speaking specifically about the details, right? Because now you need to be able to share your sex partners, how many, how you, you need do that, whether you’re healthy, whether there’s STDs.
All of that stuff can be avoided, minimized, lied about. And I don’t want that to be confused with what we’re saying about details. Right, right. Exactly.
John-Nelson Pope: Exactly. You
Chris Gazdik: did I do a good job there then. You did.
John-Nelson Pope: I, I’m a hundred degrees [00:17:00] I’m a hundred percent in Accord with you. Good.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. So that, I think that’s important.
’cause I don’t want people thinking we don’t need to talk about this. That is by Oh yeah. No, I mean, it’s not the case. Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: But, but my point going, going to the other is that if you have a one night stand, it could come back to haunt you. Later on, it’s complicated. I mean, if you
Chris Gazdik: let, we’re not gonna make an ethical statement or a value statement during this show as well, so that, you know, I will, but I mean, there are emotional realities to this period.
Yeah. And significant ones,
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, there’s consequences to most everything you do, whether they be positive or negative.
Chris Gazdik: Right. Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: I, I think
Chris Gazdik: we also have to get to, with this topic very clearly, the whole effect of all of the dating apps and all of the internet connection and all of the stuff that’s out there.
I mean, I can’t say that I’m experienced with it. I mean, but I, we deal with it a lot and yeah. [00:18:00] I don’t know, Victoria, you might be closest to the three of us with that in what that’s about, just because you’re younger and you’re used to the apps and all that stuff, but it has just gotten messier and messier and messier.
It feels like it’s
Victoria Pendergrass: quite quiet. I mean, I’ll be honest, I honestly don’t have that much experience with it because by the time I have a little bit of personal experience with like Tinder. But for the most part, as long as I’ve been in a, like, relationship with my husband, dating apps weren’t really around.
Like when I You, when I was in, yeah. When I, which makes me feel old, that’s surprising. But like when I was in college and stuff, like Tinder wasn’t really a thing. So, or in dating at like you had and how long you
Chris Gazdik: been married, if I may ask. Mm-hmm.
Victoria Pendergrass: This is year six,
Chris Gazdik: so, okay. Yeah. So six years. She was years before that night, and
John-Nelson Pope: we’ve been together about 11 years.
Person. She was at Gardner Webb. So they’re a little behind the curve there. Okay. You know what don’t
Victoria Pendergrass: mean, don’t mean that was a
Chris Gazdik: slam, y’all, that was not nice. But
Victoria Pendergrass: like, I mean, ’cause I [00:19:00] remember, I don’t really, no one, and somebody could correct me if I’m wrong, but like, I mean, I graduated college in 2015 and, you know, remember
Chris Gazdik: what the
Victoria Pendergrass: like most
Chris Gazdik: I, what the first dating app was
Victoria Pendergrass: and I remember like
Chris Gazdik: farmers only.com, I remember,
Victoria Pendergrass: Things like Plenty of Fish.
Yeah, I’ve heard that one. What’s the f other one? Matchmaker. Well, let’s not go off on this too much. Matchmaker or whatever match. Many of them we
Chris Gazdik: need to do a whole show on match the apps match. But I am curious about when it came out, Neil, but I, I think the, the, the thing is, is so I’ll say that
Victoria Pendergrass: don’t rely on me for lots of information.
Fair.
Chris Gazdik: I, I I stand corrected then. But I mean, it has just, have you, have you all both seen though? It’s just progressively progressed. Mm-hmm. All of this sort of this phenomenal Yeah, it is. I mean, ’cause dating apps in a way went all the way back to my stepdad and mom getting together. They, they, they answered each other in the newspaper.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Right. Yeah. So it’s not new. It’s the Lonely Hearts Club. It it’s not [00:20:00] new. Yeah. But it was in the thirties. Okay. Was that a thing? Lonely Hearts Club.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. Yeah. Lonely Hearts Club. And they’d put ads in the paper and that’s how some serial killers got their starts. Oh boy.
Victoria Pendergrass: That’s a breeding ground right there.
Chris Gazdik: Makes sense. But, but, but the prolific. Nature of the internet with this. Yeah. I think has made this a tremendously greater ordeal. Mm-hmm. Does that sound like a fair statement? I think so. Yeah. So, so this is affecting a lot of people. And the last thing I’ll make a point out the gate here is that I’m gonna suggest that just because of the emotional nature of all of this, that on your part or your partner’s part in a one night stand pretty dang close to a hundred percent of the time as well, you will have boundary confusion.
Yes. Is that a fair statement also?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yes. Okay. I have dates.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. What dates? Okay. Neil’s failed us. What you doing man? You, you letting Victoria crush you? I’m confirming the
Victoria Pendergrass: dates before I [00:21:00] say, oh yeah, I just did chat. GPT. So this is chat GT’s thing? Mm-hmm. So pre-app we had things like match.com eHarmony OK Cupid.
Oh yeah, I remember that. That was 95 2000. 2004. Oh wow. 2008 grinder. Wow. Oh, launches. Wow.
Chris Gazdik: That early.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. Yeah. Shees and then 2012 Tinder launches, but Tinder doesn’t really gain massive popularity until 2013. Wow. And then we add things like Hinge in two, 2012, Bumble in 2014.
Chris Gazdik: Mm-hmm.
Victoria Pendergrass: Coffee Meets Bagel in 2012.
Chris Gazdik: I didn’t even know that one.
Victoria Pendergrass: And then we have, and then it just goes, there’s more,
Chris Gazdik: lots of lots since, yeah. But yeah. Wait a minute. How many cents, just maybe give us a number.
Victoria Pendergrass: It doesn’t really say there’s between 16 and 20. Gosh, gosh, there’s, gosh, no. At a glance. Yeah. No. Between 2016 and 2020. Only four.
Chris Gazdik: Four new ones,
Victoria Pendergrass: four or five. And then it says others focus on different features of like depending things. Okay. Like [00:22:00] there’s one for like mu match for Muslims and like other specific things and farmers. Do you like the farmers? Only John. That was a great commercials though. I mean, I guess Tinder was that when I was in college, it just wasn’t very popular.
So a lot of people, like we were in college, so we met people on campus, so I wasn’t really using it. It’s, this is
John-Nelson Pope: the thing. It’s just that she’s, she’s very capable of doing this and doing a podcast at the same time and looking things up. And I, I’m having a hard time keeping up a little bit. Not because of my age, but as much as your focus.
Focus. Yeah. And so you’re
Victoria Pendergrass: saying that impacts,
John-Nelson Pope: I think it impacts dating things. Oh yeah. I think so. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, when I can sit in a college class and start meaning things move
Chris Gazdik: fast, John. Yeah. They move real fast. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think that is a cultural shift for sure. Let’s, let’s focus ’cause we have a lot to get to guys.
Yeah. We have a lot to get to. Okay. Gender differences. [00:23:00] How do we, I don’t usually focus on, nor acknowledge or highlight a lot of gender difference reality in therapy generally Uhhuh. Mm-hmm. But I think particularly, I think this is the case in sexuality area. Yeah. A hundred percent case. There’s definitely differences.
So how does this operate, do you think? Okay. In gender differences with one night stand factors,
Victoria Pendergrass: Men, totally fine. Totally. Okay. Have as many as you want.
Chris Gazdik: Totally disagree.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. Women, you’re a slot, you’re a whore. That’s
John-Nelson Pope: not, no, see, that’s not what the article said, by the way. Yeah. Right. John? I read both, both articles.
You read the articles we got. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: By the way, do we, we’re getting really, really good at our websites to check in. We got articles, if you like, any topic. I’m gonna have our, I think the article that was
John-Nelson Pope: published and then, so then do I
Victoria Pendergrass: have it reversed?
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. And then the guardian article that, that was there.
Yeah. No, it’s not reversed, but I think women are more reticent overall. I think that’s what the study said. [00:24:00] But men do have issues with it and everyone night
Chris Gazdik: Right. Cannot get erections. Right. Cannot achieve orgasm. Very standardly. A very awkward, I mean, oh, yeah, yeah. What you pointed out Victoria, is how
Victoria Pendergrass: people view it.
Chris Gazdik: Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay.
Chris Gazdik: The cultural perception. Yeah, the
Victoria Pendergrass: cultural perception of is
Chris Gazdik: completely false. I feel like.
Victoria Pendergrass: Oh, yeah. No, I’m not saying I agree with it. I’m
John-Nelson Pope: just saying that how, yeah. That’s how people feel. And a lot of, unfortunately, a lot of young people that, or, or middle aged people, or even the horses and all Yeah.
Silver seniors mm-hmm. Is that they watch and view a lot of pornography, and so they, a lot of their, their expectations are shaped by what, based on that, based on what they see and what they view. And you can’t, who they’re looking for
Chris Gazdik: can’t be psychologically fair, I mean, right. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, but what are the differences then?
I mean, John, you, you checked the articles out. I’m proud. I’m, I’m pleased about that. What, what did you see? Well, it was a fast
John-Nelson Pope: [00:25:00] scan, but yeah, yeah. Same. But, but the article was that, that women that men do have these issues and I, I think it, and for men, it obviously works out to where we can’t fake it and
Chris Gazdik: yeah, no, it’s hard to fake for a dude.
Yeah. For very much disadvantage there. We, we do not
John-Nelson Pope: have the penis bone, like mm-hmm. Like other animals, right. So it’s, it’s, we’re built for relationships and as opposed to transactions, and I think that’s part of the problem. And so what sometimes I think that men do is that they compartmentalize it. And so they don’t, they, they just go for the the rutting basically.
Yeah. And I think females are, because men produce moons of sperm. It’s replenishable all the time. [00:26:00] It women, it’s more gestational. They, they received the sperm and immediately there is that concept of life that, that a potential of life that’s growing in that in the person. And so the person the female, this is what I got discerned from the article, would be more likely to say, okay, I want a long-term relationship.
Chris Gazdik: More, more likely to want to commit or feel
John-Nelson Pope: right.
Chris Gazdik: A
John-Nelson Pope: connection. So I didn’t see the word slut or right. Or, or sad.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, yeah, I mean we’ve, yeah, mine is more of how people view.
John-Nelson Pope: Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: Instead of what, and I think that personally a lot of women, and I think the article when the articles mentioned it too, that a lot of women experience more like negative emotions when around one night stands than men typically do.
Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: That’s what was in the article. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: And I gotta put a pause on that and question and wonder again. The cultural [00:27:00] difference is strong uhhuh men are allowed to have as much sex as you want and not condemned for it. Women are criticized heavily and correct, you know, just crushed for it. But I, I feel like there’s an equal amount of insecurity about it.
John-Nelson Pope: Oh yeah,
Chris Gazdik: yeah, yeah. I really do. You, you can talk to big game guys if you want, but the fact of this, that that’s I mean that’s why there’s not climax and all.
John-Nelson Pope: I mean, it’s, it’s just growing up. It’s just terrible. You know, you talk about it. Oh yeah. And
Chris Gazdik: talk a big game and big game. You watch your body count what your head, you know, I mean, it guys are guys, but, but understand that’s all based on insecurity.
That’s all based on doubts and, and, and the, the, the performance frus anxiety and all of that. There’s so much that goes into it. But I, but I do see that. It’s interesting, one of the articles from the research article that you’re talking about from the psychology today, when John, if you differentiate between the two, regret, anxiety, depression, and social stigma mm-hmm.
Is, is a large part of the [00:28:00] outcome of what people are experiencing. Mm-hmm. It just is. And I gotta wonder about the, the influence of the emotional outcome. And we will talk a little bit about motivations here in a minute, but. As, as we’re moving into what motivates somebody to do this, I would love to see a research article, guys on Abandonment.
Folks going into one night stands more or less than Engulfment.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yes. I would also be curious. I would love to see
Chris Gazdik: those numbers.
Victoria Pendergrass: What’s your first assumption?
Chris Gazdik: Oh, the abandonment people would
John-Nelson Pope: be, that would be a all over it. It would be wonderful. I would like to see dissertations. Right. That would be act actually based on, on real psychotherapy or behavioral health issues such as this.
Yeah. Because I think this would be very helpful for, for therapist. I think so. So you’re
Victoria Pendergrass: saying the people with fear of abandonment jump on one night stands more frequently than the people not intended, right? Sorry? More than the people with fear of engulfment. [00:29:00] Yes. Okay. That’s my, that’s my hypothesis. No, I feel like that would track Uhhuh.
Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. I, I really feel, and I think it’s so precarious. Huh You know, to, to, to see. And then, so then
Victoria Pendergrass: do you think people with fear of abandonment also are more likely to want to follow up with continuation of said engagements? Say
Chris Gazdik: that again? I’m sorry.
Victoria Pendergrass: Like, do you think the people with fear of abandonment are more likely to want to follow up with continued engagements with this person?
That’s an
Chris Gazdik: interesting thing.
Victoria Pendergrass: Rather than see if a, if a fear of engulfment person did partake in a one night stand, they would maybe be less likely to want to pursue the unanticipated outcome afterwards.
Chris Gazdik: You’re onto something interesting there. Yeah, look,
Victoria Pendergrass: you know for sure only if I went back and got my doctorate.
That’s awesome.
John-Nelson Pope: That’s another, that’s a second really good
Chris Gazdik: question.
John-Nelson Pope: She should do, which you should do. I think you’re very capable. Thank you, sir. But the, the, the thing is, is that I’m, go ahead. I’m so owed, I. That we were, [00:30:00] we were not, the, the one night stands were pretty much for people in the military or they’d be going visit, visit,
Chris Gazdik: It was a little bit of a taboo and knocked down Taboo.
Is that right? Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. Or you had the Mad Men Madison Avenue, kind of smooth operators and that sort of thing. That’s
Chris Gazdik: interesting. John, you’re saying when you were coming up in, when the sixties, sixties, sixties, yeah. I was young team. It was really not an acceptable thing to do. Mm-hmm. Because when I was coming up into eighties, it was absolutely encouraged with men Victoria, that that’s what you’re supposed to do.
Well, that’s, and now, but now I’m feeling like it’s. Proliferated, so mm-hmm. For both genders.
Victoria Pendergrass: Mm-hmm. Yes. And that’s, well ’cause I think nowadays there is more openness about like, exploration, figuring out what you like. Do you have any kinks, are you into specific type of things? Like before we like [00:31:00] settle down for the long call with this one person for the rest of our lives, and that’s just, you know, whatever.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. Well I’ve had, like, it’s interesting that the the friends with benefits has been used mostly by my female clients or the fbs, the really F buddies. Fbs fobs. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: No, FWBs, sorry I got my words wrong.
John-Nelson Pope: Friends with benefits, friends
Chris Gazdik: with benefits. But yeah. You see that more as a gendered female thing.
John-Nelson Pope: I’ve seen it, my gendered female folks have mostly said that really are the ones that
Victoria Pendergrass: like, pursue it and initiate it. Yeah. Like wanting to have friends with benefits versus the male client wanting to initiate.
Chris Gazdik: Well, what’s interesting about that too, I would challenge you and just something you would maybe just pay attention to John and, and, and we can connect about it in several months.
Because I, I, I’m, I’d be willing to bet that that follows more in line with the abandonment folks. Uhhuh, [00:32:00] and we think of women as being more in the abandonment role. Mm-hmm. Which they are not Uhhuh, I don’t think so. I wonder, I wonder about that. That that’s where we have that very curious research question.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Right, right.
John-Nelson Pope: Definitely.
Victoria Pendergrass: So somebody else go out there and figure it out and let us know.
John-Nelson Pope: You could do that, John. I could get a second doctorate.
Chris Gazdik: All right. There’s another big thing I wanna bring up in this idea of, of gender perspectives and motivations on the idea of expectations.
Victoria Pendergrass: Oh Lord, this is
Chris Gazdik: a huge area of like, remember I said boundary confusions?
Mm-hmm. So what are the dating expectations? What are the boundary expectations? How does that work? You know, do you hug, do you kiss? Do you, you know, side hug, first dates, apps, all this kind of stuff. Like, there’s, there’s a lot of, it’s a
John-Nelson Pope: minefield. Listen, no, go ahead. [00:33:00] You’re gonna step on an IED, I mean, improvise, explosive device.
I mean it’s, you know, there’s the, the people coming together and having sex and then, oh, well, did you overstep your boundaries? And by, and it’s mutual. And yet at the same time, you could be accused later on of being a predator. Well, that’s another factor. Oh yeah. That’s a,
Victoria Pendergrass: Factor for men and
Chris Gazdik: women’s date rape
John-Nelson Pope: claims.
Rape. Yeah. And I such, yeah. And it’s not just,
Victoria Pendergrass: it’s not just a men thing. Women can do it too.
Chris Gazdik: Can do it too. Fair. Thank you for that. Yeah. But I,
Victoria Pendergrass: I think sometimes it’s a mix of socialized, assumed norms when it comes to one night stand. Mm-hmm. Versus like what your personal preferences and values and things are in the view of a one night stand.
Chris Gazdik: Correct me if I’m wrong. Why is it that people just don’t wanna talk about it and have [00:34:00] boundary expectations laid out?
Victoria Pendergrass: Look, and I talk about this, I mean, all the time. Like, what is that like? I talk about it all the time, how I read books with like multiple point of view, right? You have the chapters with a point of view with the fe, the one female or the one lead, and then another point of view from the other lead and they like bounce back and forth or whatever.
And sometimes I read these chapters and I’m like, if y’all would just freaking talk to each other, half of this book wouldn’t exist. Okay.
Chris Gazdik: You added yourself. So would just, so what books are you talking about? You gotta clarify that. ’cause that could go and I’m gonna go into something else. What? What kind, what kind of books?
What are you talking about? Just any,
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean I talk about books with multiple points of view, point of views of, so like chapter one might be from your point of view, chapter two might be from my point of view. Then chapter three goes back to think you’re missing
Chris Gazdik: my point. What? People need to understand what type of book you’re talking about.
They talking about a school textbook. You talking about a type of novel? Are you talking about No, I’ve heard Whatcha talking press sellers.
Victoria Pendergrass: I like sty books. Okay. So I just wanted to make sure that, [00:35:00] but I also read books like that, that aren’t sty, that also have dual point of view.
John-Nelson Pope: Okay, okay.
Victoria Pendergrass: It’s just more, it’s more along the lines of when you read a book and you’re like, and regardless of the topic, if these two people would just talk to each other,
John-Nelson Pope: our culture things would be, has changed a lot easier.
Dramatically. A hundred years ago you would get something from one, possibly two point of points of view. Today, literature typically, I, I say, is from multiple points of view, and so it’s because that’s the way we look at things. We’re very fractured. In, in our
Chris Gazdik: What do you mean multiple points of view?
John-Nelson Pope: Well, you get this, the, the books and the novels that are of, of, let’s say from the, that are very complicated. And, and there’s a lot of intertwining of people’s lives. Mm-hmm. And, and we, somebody might see something one way, the other person will interpret it an entirely different way.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. So this is curious.
It’s not [00:36:00] clicking with me. I, I, one night stand, there’s two people. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: So what is multiple points of view? I’m not confused words. She, she, I just brought up, used that term,
Victoria Pendergrass: but yeah. And I just use it as an example, back to the communication thing. As if Yes. If people would just freaking talk to each other about like, expectations or, you know, are we gonna talk after this?
Are you never gonna text me again? Are we even gonna exchange names and numbers? Like, what are we doing, Chris?
John-Nelson Pope: It’s not just two people. There are truffles and Oh, okay. I was looking, yeah. Okay. And, and there’s also, and I’m being very loud and, and passionate. I love it. But I think that we are if we look at it just as a one night stand, it’s not a one night stand.
It’s, it’s, it’s. Yeah, everybody. Yeah. Thank
Chris Gazdik: you, John. I, I, I needed, that’s what I wasn’t connecting with. Okay. You, you’re, you’re right, right? Like there, it’s sexuality is so different now. You know, I mean, you, we, we would’ve two girls and a guy or, [00:37:00] you know, different experimentation, you know, back in the nineties and eighties and whatever as well.
But you’re right, prolifically. There’s kitchen table marriages, there’s, you know, swinging, there’s kink societies, there’s all sorts of stuff that the character
John-Nelson Pope: quagmire on. The family guy is such an outdated a caricature of a person that’s a swinger, basically. Hmm. And it’s he, he’s someone that’s, is a leto, I guess.
Let, I mean, he’s, he’s a, you know, he has multiple sex partners and that sort of thing, and he’s but he’s a serial. Sex partners. A gigolo. A gigolo. And, but in terms of, of, of the way it is now is everybody’s a quagmire to a certain extent. And they outdo quagmire.
Chris Gazdik: Boy. Yeah. It’s gotten even more, I mean, I’m listening to you and realizing you’re right, I was thinking of one person uhhuh on with another person, Uhhuh, and that’s not really the true [00:38:00] characterization of one night stands anymore, isn’t it?
Right. Like, yeah. I mean,
John-Nelson Pope: it’s, everybody was scandalized by open marriages, but today we’re just, that’s the, that’s that’s vanilla. Yeah, that’s vanilla. That’s Well, and I
Victoria Pendergrass: think it’s also not just the people that you actually sleep with in the one night stand. It’s like also if you have like. Friends in common and like you end up, yeah, like hang, like you end up invited to the same party and like you get there and like you see someone you hook, like, how do we navigate that?
Like, right. Gosh. ’cause me being social, I wanna be like, Hey, how’s it going? Da da. Or if it was a bad experience, I may be like, I’m turning and I’m leaving this party because so and so, you know, so I don’t think it’s just about like the two people that sleep together that have the one night stand. It’s like all the people in their circles and all the people they interact with and like, shitty what I started out.
And that’s what you mean. That’s why, that’s why he started out, meaning by point of view, not just multiple sex partners. Yeah. I,
Chris Gazdik: I’m just [00:39:00] sitting here sort of taking this in and listening and, and talking with you and it’s like, I don’t know, this has always been a very emotional issue, a very complicated psychological experience.
And I don’t mean to make it too dramatic, but it just, it just feels like even more than I realize. It’s even more so like building momentum to being even more boundary confusing and expectations could blurred and multiple perspectives angle as you guys are talking about. I mean, it’s, it’s my mind, I don’t know, I’m just, my mind’s blowing out right now a little bit like, but I think, think, can we add any more confusion to this?
Victoria Pendergrass: I think it still all, regardless of what keeping in mind of what we all said, it still goes back to communication. Like have a conversation then like, you know. Yes. You know, Gastonia, which is where I live, is not like it’s a rather large city, but like the [00:40:00] odds of running into someone that you’ve seen before
Chris Gazdik: is gonna happen, is
Victoria Pendergrass: real probably gonna happen.
And the hides are hides. The chances are high. What in the world was that? But like, so then we might have to have, if that happened here, you might have to have more of a conversation than like if you lived in New York City where the odds of you running into the same person
John-Nelson Pope: sex in the city
Victoria Pendergrass: is,
is lower. So that you might not to show, you might not feel like you have to have that conversation because you’re in a city full of like 3 billion people or a million people or however many people live in New York City and surrounding areas. So then I think like also your environment and things to kind of influence like your need or want to communicate.
Well. Does that make sense, Victoria?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, it does. I hear what you’re saying. Okay. And I think what I would say to to, to sharpen that, that blade you, you’re, I mean I still a little bit, I still think should have
Victoria Pendergrass: conversations regardless of where you live, but you know, for
Chris Gazdik: your own [00:41:00] benefit.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: For your own wellness.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Right. Like, it it’s not about, and the person that you’re with, hopefully caring there, but it, you know, if you don’t do that, then you’re not going to be grounded. There’s health
John-Nelson Pope: issues involved with this. I mean, when people become intimate with one another and they are, STDs
Chris Gazdik: are going crazy
John-Nelson Pope: nowadays.
Yeah, yeah. STIs. STIs
Victoria Pendergrass: as well. Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: Wild old. Exactly. Yeah. And so, and you could get HIV and they have these wonderful commercials on HIV prep since you weren’t, you don’t have HIV and so you wanna prevent it. And then the, but there’s also medicines for, for antivirals and, and it’s just kind of exploded. It is just, it’s overwhelming.
And then we, we say we wanna protect our children mm-hmm. From having sex prematurely. And and we wanna [00:42:00] protect them. But then we make, we give them every opportunity to have one night stands or hookups or not, not have a moral issue element that’s imposed that, that’s instilled in that relationship.
Victoria Pendergrass: Mm-hmm. And
John-Nelson Pope: so it’s gone from, okay, it’s alright, premarital sex is wrong. You can’t have it, never have it, and you can be a mad, it’s not pure. It’s not pure. And guilt, guilt, guilt, guilt, shame, shame, shame. All of that since then, then I’m, I’m saying that for emphasis and then we go to free love with the hippies.
Yep. And and so, but you had sex with somebody you liked. And you loved and you did that. And so there’s people moving in together and that sort of thing, and that’s going on now, was going on for a while, and then they get married or they don’t get married. Now it’s like, [00:43:00] I really don’t want to have a relationship with you.
I just want to, I just want to jump your bones. Yeah. I wanna have an orgasm. And it’s female. That’s,
Chris Gazdik: that’s the kind. It’s female too. Yeah. Okay. And is that okay? Is that, you know, is that, is, is this one night stand, you know, worth it? Is that, is that,
John-Nelson Pope: and you might get something. I I, and yet we’ll check. I used to have to, I had to get a blood test trying to married before in Victoria
Chris Gazdik: A.
Little bit
John-Nelson Pope: when I got married. I can answer your
Victoria Pendergrass: question though,
Chris Gazdik: can
John-Nelson Pope: you?
Victoria Pendergrass: I at least I think I can.
Chris Gazdik: Okay.
Victoria Pendergrass: I think it can be worth it if so. Yes. I think it can be worth it. However, I have some.
Chris Gazdik: Quantifies stipulations
Victoria Pendergrass: to that. Okay. One, understanding the potential positive or ne negative effect that it could have on your emotional and mental wellbeing.
Mm-hmm. And also like having boundaries set. Like H how are we, you know, are we on the same page?
Chris Gazdik: Is there clarity?
Victoria Pendergrass: Is there [00:44:00] clarity? Because I get it. We have needs, you know, sometimes there’s only so much you can do by yourself that you need somebody else. And so like I think that it can be, if you have an understanding and you play it out in your head and you say that, okay, like, I don’t know.
The chances of me regretting this are very slim.
Chris Gazdik: So here’s the thing,
Victoria Pendergrass: but that’s not to say you won’t make a mistake. Let’s, let’s look at
Chris Gazdik: this in the motivational way. Okay. Okay. So thank you for taking attempt at that Victoria. Sure. And John, we can swing back if need be, but I,
John-Nelson Pope: I, I wanna be a swinger, so that’s
Chris Gazdik: not, oh, there’s, there’s lots of variations.
8, 7, 5, 3 0 9. There’s each, there’s, there’s a lot of variations to each side of these, but Okay. If the motivations really revolve around pleasure seeking or emotional needs being met, yeah. That’s the bottom line.
Victoria Pendergrass: Oh, yeah. Lots
Chris Gazdik: of variations on both of those, but those are the two routes that you go into.
Mm-hmm. And [00:45:00] if it, if it is a, if it is a conception of pleasure seeking and you have your quantifiers there and whatnot. Mm-hmm. Okay. The boundaries are clear and whatnot. I still personally give the warning that there’s going to be all kinds of insecurities about that now and later, but that could be managed if that’s your.
Pleasure when you’re looking at emotional needs and that’s your motivation, validation, acceptance, feeling loved. Mm-hmm. Being loved, all that kind of stuff. Woe to you. Be very alarmed and concerned. It’s a all stop in my So you’re not in
Victoria Pendergrass: touch with a 10 foot pole. Right.
Chris Gazdik: Do not. So, so that really makes a big difference.
Yeah. On your motivational aspect here. Right. Well,
Victoria Pendergrass: and we also have to think about the fact that a lot of people have ni one nice sense when they’re inebriated, when they’re under some sort of influence. Oh, that’s a good point. When they’re not necessarily thinking. Okay. Cognitively straight. And so I [00:46:00] do think that also plays a factor into it.
John-Nelson Pope: Cavanaugh justice Kavanaugh Yeah. Was accused Is that from somebody? Is that the excuse that he Well, no, he didn’t have an excuse, but the woman that said that she had had mm-hmm. Was taken advantage of and raped. Right. I
Victoria Pendergrass: remember
John-Nelson Pope: was inebriated mm-hmm. And dropped out of her gills. And he had had a, it was a high school party or a college party Right.
That he went to. And that was in the eighties. And, and yet that comes back to haunt him 30 years later.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Wow.
John-Nelson Pope: Right. And so I’m saying why, why not have, and, and call back a spiritual aspect to this and even a religious aspect of this and that people do this as a way of, of transcendent love. And that they have the intimacy and the act, sexual act as a way of communi, communing, and communicating with God.
Chris Gazdik: Well, again, I wanna just highlight a case. I feel like, and I’m a preacher,
John-Nelson Pope: I’m sorry. Yeah, no, I get [00:47:00] it.
Chris Gazdik: And, and I, and I think, I wanna say again, if your, if your goal is pleasure and the clarity is there and the boundaries and the expectations, I still warn is gonna be great insecurities, doubts, hurts and fears that are a part of that interaction.
Yeah. Great. However, your pleasure seeking and you’re clear about it, and both people are okay. That is very different. There’s, and of course, consent. Yeah. And I’m, I’m not gonna judge That is very different. Yeah. It’s not the shame. Yeah. We’re not saying the, the, the whatever. But when you’re dealing with emotional needs, and I’m sorry, but I, I think generally speaking, that’s what people deal with when they’re dealing with sex.
That’s my lean, it’s my lean. Okay. For, for what it’s worth. And that, that creates major problems.
John-Nelson Pope: People with borderline personality disorder or serious mental illness are very vulnerable. And there’s an emptiness and a need also very promiscuous. And promiscuous. It can be, yeah. For
Chris Gazdik: pleasure or for emotional need.
John-Nelson Pope: For emotional need. I think clearly, right? Clearly. Yeah. I think maybe the bipolar might be Pleasure. [00:48:00] Pleasure.
Chris Gazdik: Now, I realize you listening to the show need to kind of, we don’t have time to go into bipolar and different diagnosis and No. And borderline and, you know, manic states, and there are things in mental health realm that you might be experiencing that, that, that contribute to, to what we’re talking about.
But I’d like to give you a challenge listening to, and I wanted to spend some time on this, but we’re not gonna be able to, this is a fundamental question that I want you to ask yourself.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: If you’re listening to this show, I want you to ask yourself this question because it will help delineate what it is that’s going on for you when you’re evaluating this stuff.
Whether you’re forgiving yourself or forgiving a one night stand partner, or the the open marriage that you’ve had, or you know, what have you that you might be doing, or you’re monogamous and you’re married and you’re not married or single. All circumstances. It’s a real simple question, but I think it might stop you in your tracks.
I would like you to ask yourself and answer the question, what does sex mean to you, right? Mm-hmm. Like that is a [00:49:00] fundamental reality that I don’t think people, Victoria ask themselves a whole lot about, even let alone have a full breadth of an answer for mm-hmm. That, because I want you to be able to talk to somebody about that for five to 10, 15 minutes.
Mm-hmm. What does sex mean to you? I think it’s an important question. Yeah. Yeah, and it’s a part of all of this that we’re talking about.
Victoria Pendergrass: One, I think that that just goes back to like. That decision making, like self-reflection, you know, kind of where are you at? Like in the long ’cause I think sometimes, and I’ve, I think I’ve mentioned this before, that like, have I talked about how sometimes the feeling of guilt comes from something that we did that goes against our morals and values?
Chris Gazdik: No, I mean you may have but go ahead.
Victoria Pendergrass: So I can’t remember who said it, but someone I saw someone talking about like how guilt, the feeling of guilt is more associated with [00:50:00] when we go, when we do something that goes against our morals and values, whereas like, shame and disappointment are just things that like, yeah, I, I You get what I’m saying?
I get what you’re saying. And so I think sometimes that can even be related to this. Like, if you feel like you’re gonna feel guilty about what you did, rather than like shame or disappoint. Disappointment. Then I think that sometimes that’s a really good, like, key on like whether or not you follow through.
Okay.
Chris Gazdik: Okay.
Victoria Pendergrass: Or whether or not you do something similar in the future if it’s something that’s already happened.
Chris Gazdik: Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: Am I just like total left field over here?
John-Nelson Pope: No. No. I think there that, that’s a nice nuance. Indifference. I think shame might be sort of an also what expect maybe some of the expectations that you’ve taken onto yourself from your, the culture.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: The, and that, and so, well, I didn’t perform as well as I, I should have or I didn’t. Which goes back to
Chris Gazdik: [00:51:00] the insecurities that Chris talks about. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think there’s a, another outcome when you look at, we’re, we’re talking about all the emotional and physiological or psychological outcomes, kind of to think about is, you know, is a one nice stand?
Okay. Or not, because you know, there are some reports, and John, even from that article and stuff, they talked about, you know, the outcomes or. Realities that come from this can be empowerment.
Victoria Pendergrass: Mm-hmm.
Chris Gazdik: Can be feeling like I have agency or I’ve overcome, i, I make to make, I like to make the joke that I’m, I’m a reformed rule follower, John.
John-Nelson Pope: Mm-hmm.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. I was a rule follower, like when, when I was younger and I, I still probably kind of am, I’m sure my brother’s laughing right now. Mm-hmm. If. Whatever, listen to this. But you know, it’s, it’s, I’m a reformed rule follower. Mm-hmm. When you, you know, when you have one night stands or loosen up your, your, your your collar from, you know, like Catholic guilt or the shame that you felt mm-hmm.
Or mm-hmm. You know, these types of things. Like you could be freer, you know, from that hurt and pain kind of, as well [00:52:00] as potentially as an outcome. Only the
John-Nelson Pope: good die
Chris Gazdik: young. Yeah. Yeah. Virginia. So, so, so I think there’s that. We, we need to be aware of that as well, you know, having agency over your life and empowerment and, you know, having satisfaction and, you know, that type of a thing.
Well,
John-Nelson Pope: but I, I think, again, you’ve talked about the confusion too, and I’m getting, going back to there and that is people having one night stands, they’re not thinking. If they’re thinking, then they would say, show me your card. That shows me that you’re clean. Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay. Yeah. They might, they’re gonna pause.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. And, and, and that sort of thing. And so. That seems to me a very self-centered act to, to just have a one night stand. That’s me. Mm. Okay. That’s a big statement. Victoria. I don’t interested believe, I don’t think I’m against, I don’t, I think prostitution is exploitation of females and males.
Chris Gazdik: Well, there’s a reason why a lot of prostitutes have sexual [00:53:00] abuse histories, John.
Right, exactly. I mean, that’s the truth. That’s the truth. We can’t hide from that.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. So, you know, I think that, I think, I think one has to I, and I can think it could very easily be predatory and people can, it can actually be damaged emotionally. So, yeah. You
Chris Gazdik: know, it’s, it’s just those are a lot of the outcomes potentially, you know, I mean, the idea that people are experiencing empowerment, that our people are experiencing satisfaction, that they’re experiencing these things that we would cast in a positive light has to be sort of, you know, guarded against or railed with, evaluated at the same time.
All of these things, right. Were
Victoria Pendergrass: pulling out. Right. Well, and I think, and tell me if this analogy is way off base, but, okay, so like if someone smokes cigarettes, right? Yeah. Or the first time someone smokes a cigarette, they’re not smoking the cigarette, going, well probably gonna get lung cancer in five years.
You know, like, that’s not, you know, you’re [00:54:00] not some, when you’re in the moment, you’re not necessarily thinking. About like the long-term effects that it’s going to have on you. So nobody
John-Nelson Pope: should have sex until after they’re 25, when the brain is, when the brain fully develops, develops.
Victoria Pendergrass: So I think that sometimes that’s what happens in one night stands is like, you’re in the moment, you’re like, you know, you’re not thinking, oh, I could get pregnant from this.
Oh, I could get an STI, I could get an STD, I could get HPV, like I could, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Someone could murder me. Yeah. This is, I mean, which is like, well that’s just looking
John-Nelson Pope: for Mr. Goodbar and so this is, yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Like that’s, and I think, so then that’s the thing that people don’t give that pause too.
Or sorry, I’m getting loud ’cause I’m getting excited. Or they think, oh, that, that won’t happen to me. That happens to other people, but that won’t happen to me. Percent.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. Other people get pregnant from Midnight Sands real. Other people get d STIs from midnight Sands. [00:55:00] But me, I’m
Chris Gazdik: insulated. I’m insulated, and for
Victoria Pendergrass: whatever reason in this bubble, and no, you
John-Nelson Pope: know what I, I, I kind of think we’re more vulnerable now than we were 50 years ago or 60 years ago because there was still community.
Mm-hmm. And we don’t have that community. We have a community that you could be any Yeah. Who you want to be and it’s on the phone. And you could be a, a posr. Or something like that, and you don’t have somebody looking out over you and making sure you don’t get in trouble. Yeah. We’ve
Chris Gazdik: moved our conversation.
I love that we transitioned nicely to, you know, we’ve talked a little bit about the pornography and the societal impacts and the applications that are dating apps and such. Mm-hmm. That it’s, it’s, it’s a different landscape now. Yeah. You know, hundred percent. I wouldn’t wanna go, I I wouldn’t wanna be 20.
It hasn’t. Right? Heck no. Not right now. It has a heck of an outcome, you know, and, and again, the motivations, like, you know, my son is younger and he tells me that, you know, girls just don’t wanna be [00:56:00] seriously, they just wanna have fun. That was a statement Uhhuh like, and, and I think that’s in the cultural stew that is, that is really developing Well, that’s what
John-Nelson Pope: my young clients said
Victoria Pendergrass: about clients.
Yeah. But I do think that we can be proactive in like safety and protection.
Chris Gazdik: Right.
Victoria Pendergrass: As far as like, yeah. Guinea, if you are sexually active in that kind of way, if free young person use condoms, please. Yeah. Use condoms, use safety, get tested regular, regularly
John-Nelson Pope: use the, do they still use the sponge and the sponge?
Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: The what?
John-Nelson Pope: Oh, so yeah. You know what I’m talking about?
Victoria Pendergrass: But like, yeah. Get tested regularly. If you are like, what’s the
John-Nelson Pope: sponge? I have to know now. What are we talking about now? Or something like that. Huh? Just, you know,
Victoria Pendergrass: he’s let me finish
John-Nelson Pope: birth control stuff. Okay. Well,
Victoria Pendergrass: so yeah, but also like, communicate with your friends if you are gonna meet up with someone and do the plan is to have a one night stand, like send your location to your friends.
[00:57:00] Like be proactive in the way of like safety measures.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: You know, so then that way, I mean, obviously I don’t, I hope nothing bad happens to people. Right. But the thing is, is you can’t always safeguard from that. You don’t know, but like. You know,
John-Nelson Pope: but females also are responsible. So it’s not just the male.
Yeah. No. Providing the, the condoms, it’s the females that, that protect themselves by using sperm side or,
Victoria Pendergrass: If I’m being transparent, I used to, back in the day, I used to keep condoms on me.
John-Nelson Pope: Well, yeah. I sense like in my purse
Victoria Pendergrass: or in like in my dorm room or where, you know, wherever I was living. Like, because Yeah, it’s, I’m not putting that sole responsibility on the guy.
’cause then they pull the whole card, well, I didn’t wanna make it seem like I was expecting anything or blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And I think
John-Nelson Pope: there’s, and the onus is also for people to make sure that they don’t have and that was a very big thing when I taught school that they don’t
Victoria Pendergrass: have an STD or anything.
[00:58:00] Or what were your No, no.
John-Nelson Pope: That, that men are held to be responsible and
Chris Gazdik: No, the gendered norms You mean? Gendered
John-Nelson Pope: norms, yeah. And that they need to make sure. That they don’t take advantage of anybody. And that was at a, a public university. And that was at a private university. Mm-hmm. Private Christian university.
Victoria Pendergrass: Mm-hmm.
John-Nelson Pope: And which is unaffiliated as well with a denomination or a very secular university that I taught at. And okay. We
Chris Gazdik: need to taxi in for a landing. Yeah. A little bit today. But I, but I don’t want to miss, you know, bringing out the notion that you need to be aware of. I think in this whole domain of one night stands or short term sexuality situations with groups of people or whatever, is, is the, the impact in the effects of trauma.
Uhhuh Oh
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Right. Yeah. Trauma experiences, whether, you know, this person has them or not. Oftentimes is a huge factor.
John-Nelson Pope: [00:59:00] Trauma begets trauma though,
Chris Gazdik: right? It abre trauma. Say what? What you mean by that? Because by that
John-Nelson Pope: I mean is that, let’s say if somebody’s been sexually abused as a child by a parent, your
Chris Gazdik: one
John-Nelson Pope: nightstand partner was was, and so that partner gets traumatized again.
And you don’t even know it. Know. You don’t even know it because all you thinking is, boy this, she’s got a nice, or he’s got a nice money. This do got the rocks
Victoria Pendergrass: off. And we go, yeah,
John-Nelson Pope: satisfied, but you’re responsible. And that’s the thing is if you’re an adult, you should be responsible and say, and ask questions.
And I, that’s why I am, I, I’m not a big fan of one night stands or having so you’re having a responsibility
Chris Gazdik: factor whether you realize your partner may have been traumatized or not,
John-Nelson Pope: it coast and follows you and you could be a a, a serial traumatize and you are the nicest human being in the world idea.
You have no idea.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, because I’ll tell you, not just women [01:00:00] uhhuh at all. Men very much as well have all kinds of experiences sexually that men, particularly we’ve talked about, just have no platform to talk about. But I don’t know what, what, what, what in what, what percentage. I really don’t know the facts.
And then we need to get out outta here with the shrink wrap up. What percentage of the facts do human beings have, you know, dramatic or full traumatic, we’ll call it yucky sexual experiences. I mean, do, do, does it, do you know, do y’all know the science? I mean, I’m, I’m curious if you know the science I have my guesses being like 80%, 70%.
John-Nelson Pope: I would, I would, I would say it’s, it reaches up that unless you’re in an Amish community and I’m saying even then teenagers, teenagers, community, and they have their year of, of right, of right. I don’t
Chris Gazdik: think we can
John-Nelson Pope: exclude that year passage to be honest. So I think it, it’s a,
Chris Gazdik: it’s a high percentage.
John-Nelson Pope: It’s a high percentage. And you even get that. And, and there was sexual activity going on in, [01:01:00] in, in seminaries when when I was going to school and there was a lot of trauma.
Chris Gazdik: Pardon?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. No, I mean, yeah, people are, oh shoot. People are seminaries
Chris Gazdik: in a lot of places, John. There’s all kinds of extra trauma.
I mean, to be honest with you,
John-Nelson Pope: well, you have to deal with the GA guilt and the shame
Chris Gazdik: a hundred percent. Okay. Closing thoughts. We need to do shrink wrap up. Closing thoughts here, guys? We’re not, we’re not doing a wrap up yet, Victoria. Oh.
Let you guys wanna make sure there’s leak or anything?
Victoria Pendergrass: No, I mean, I just.
Make the best decision you can.
Chris Gazdik: Okay? For the moment, as I tell my kids,
John-Nelson Pope: yeah, wear a condom. Make good decisions. Wear, yeah. Okay. Yeah. See, see the, see the other person as a person. Don’t be afraid to talk, not as a, not as a thing, not as an object, but as a person, as a subject.
Chris Gazdik: Gotcha. Warm yourself up for the shrink or what, what is it called?
The shrink wrap up. So we are ending the show nowadays with a fun little [01:02:00] place of reviewing what the show was, what our review was, make it a fun little competition. Each of us takes a turn to do the shrink wrap up, you know, with the main takeaway or the main thought that we have for the day of the show.
And Neil kind of gives us a quick judgment and helps us to you know, decide who won this week. So Neil, I’m gonna put you on the spot. What are you looking for in the shrink wrap up? I think we need a little bit of clarification. We’ve done this a few times. What are you looking for, brother? Help us out.
Neil Robinson: I, I would be looking for in the shrink wrap up is if someone watched the shrink wrap up. What would be the best, concise way to de describe what happened on the show? So I think in this thing, if they came down to it was this, this was our short, this is our little, like, if they, if they skip forward to the end, if they skip forward to this and they saw these pieces, if I could take this thing and say, put it at the front and it makes people wanna watch the rest of the video, I want you to wrap it up to say, here’s what you’re gonna get in the episode.
Victoria Pendergrass: Chris is itching.
Chris Gazdik: Perfect. That’s good. No, I haven’t been able to think. All right. Who’s first? Rock, paper, scissor, or whatever. Okay. Shoot. [01:03:00] John,
John-Nelson Pope: I, I was gonna say, if you’re gonna make it, don’t fake it.
Chris Gazdik: Well, that’s a short wrap up. Okay. I
Victoria Pendergrass: love it. All right.
Chris Gazdik: You want me to go or rock? No, I’ll go.
Victoria Pendergrass: So bottom line in my opinion is that one night stands are not a horrible thing.
As long as you think it through, you’re prepared, you communicate, set boundaries, and understand that there are potential negative and positive consequences.
John-Nelson Pope: So if you make it. Don’t fake it.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. My shrink wrap up is, listen, I feel like this is a complicated topic by far, and if you don’t feel that it’s complicated in your life when it comes to the insecurities, the emotions, the dynamics of expectations, the communication, I could go on this whole show, talked about these dynamics that are really in infused into your psyche and your experience.
And if you’re not aware of all of that, the potential harm can be great. So be careful, be aware, [01:04:00] and finally ask that question, what does sex mean to you? Thank you. Excellent.
Neil Robinson: Okay, so. I think it’s gonna have to be, Chris, that was a, that was a good wrap up. I think that was great. Chris, you get this one.
John-Nelson Pope: Yay.
You finally got it. Yay. Yeah, I finally got one. It’s been, been, been, I’ve been, been in a major draft. I had to do it first.
Chris Gazdik: Major. This is a disadvantage. It’s hard to do first. You’re, you’re right John. We’ll get better at the shrink wrap up.
Victoria Pendergrass: You took, you took the Tory approach of a Victoria approach of making it short and sweet, because that’s usually right.
He definitely, he definitely took the Victoria approach
Chris Gazdik: on that one. Alright, listen guys, I hope you had a good time hanging out with us. It’s a really important topic and hopefully we’ve entertained you a little bit, giving you some information and helped you to understand kind of the dynamics of what’s going on, because it can be perilous.
But what, John, did you have a No, no. I, I, I
John-Nelson Pope: wanna do this
Chris Gazdik: after, after that, so,
Victoria Pendergrass: oh, after we cut the mic. All right.
Chris Gazdik: Take us outta here, John.
John-Nelson Pope: Okay.
Chris Gazdik: What [01:05:00] happened? Take us outta here. It’s wonderful.
John-Nelson Pope: It’s, oh, do you want me to say it?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. What? I’m, it’s up to you. I thought you okay? No,
John-Nelson Pope: I wanna, I just wanna say that there is something we left out and I think we did. We’re not done Victoria. And that’s the spiritual aspect of it. And whether you’re religious or not, or you’re a flaming atheist or whatever, there is something, there’s a a need for people to be at oneness with one another and in communication and communion and I think one night stands does the disservice Okay.
To that.
Chris Gazdik: Fair enough. Okay. All right. Listen, stay well, take care and we will see you next week. Victoria Pendergrass: Peace out. Thank you. Use protection.