Have you ever had a time when your reaction to a situation did not seem to make sense? That could because of something you experienced in the past that is now engrained into your subconscious. In this episode Chris brings back Matthew Hanks to talk to him about implicit bias. What it is, how it affects us, and what you can do to help minimize the impact it can have on you and those closest to you.
Tune in to see part 1 of Why Do We Believe What We Believe Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Listen for the following takeaways from the show:
- Outside source is an episode of Science Vs that covers how our implicit biases affect us during times of high stress.
- Definition of what is Implicit Bias. This is your Unconscious Bias.
- What is the different between Implicit and Explicit Bias?
- Episode 163 tackles our Core Beliefs that are part of our implicit bias.
- In a relationship you see your implicit biases in heated moments with your partner.
- As you start to identify your implicit biases, it isn’t about stopping them, but about identifying them faster.
- Everyone is affected by this!
- During levels of High Stress/Fear, your frontal cortex shuts down and your implicit bias take over.
- There are 2 goals when dealing with your implicit biases:
- Just maintenance and manage to make it through.
- How do you change aspects of implicit biases?
- Immediate goal is when looking into implicit biases is to de-escalate, not solve or fix.
- Chris encourages the long road to improve this because the benefits are worth it.
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Episode #173 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. And welcome back, Mr. Matthew Hanks. He is back with us in this co-host revolving program that we’ve got every month. So he has been with us once before. And he is back with us again for, I think your, is this your second rotation? I was your third. All right. It’s our third time.
That’s cool. Cause I’m getting used to people now and I could tell that we have, because it’s the months are bleeding together with who’s who’ve been here, so yeah, that’s pretty cool. So welcome everybody to through with therapists eyes. I’m Chris Gazdak and mental health and substance abuse. Therapist, rather, I have that book still out Reunderstanding emotions and becoming your best self.
We welcome you to this podcast where you find personal insights from a therapist directly to your own home and personal time in your [00:01:00] car. Like to say, this is through the lens of a therapist, but not the delivery of therapy services in any way. And we are doing a lot of new things. I don’t know if you’ve caught up with that.
Matthew, we’ve got these Facebook live cameras going. And what did we, did we have any of this when you were here
Matthew Hanks: last? No, I think Neil was trying to hold a phone up or something. Maybe couldn’t get a signal through, so we were having challenges with it. So you’ve definitely taken a step forward since the
Chris Gazdik: last time.
Yeah, we are at contact@throughatherapistseys.com. That’s for questions, for interaction Spotify, LinkedIn Apple iTunes. We’re getting kind of everywhere, man. It’s kinda been fun. So check us out. This is the human emotional experience. We do endeavor to figure this thing out together. Man, I am throwing you into the fire.
I’m sorry about that, man, because we got to meaty, what did I call it? A psychologically meaty topic tonight,
Matthew Hanks: man. I think I just should have stayed on that road trip.
Chris Gazdik: You did take an
Matthew Hanks: awesome road trip. I took, I took January off, but. [00:02:00] I should’ve just kept driving and said, Hey, I’ll meet you in March. Let somebody else cover implicit bias, one
Chris Gazdik: topic, illicit bias.
Why do we believe what we believe? For, I forget, where do they find you? How do they find you? You are a awesome real estate agent in this area, man. You are all local. And I wondered, can you do national in any way?
Matthew Hanks: No, I have business partners all over the country. Really? Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: You’ve kind of grown yourself a little bit, sir.
Matthew Hanks: Yeah, they could. Well, you can find me@matthewhanks.com. That’s all my connections to my social media channels, but we have business partners. I’m a part of a larger real estate firm known as exp Realty. And I have business partners all over the country and really around the world, we can help people with their real estate needs no matter where they are.
Yeah. So I encourage them to reach out to me and we’ll respond there and find out what the need is.
Chris Gazdik: Be able to help them. And it’s not just a total plug man. I’ve come to know this guy. He’s a, he’s one of the members of our mastermind group cares about what he does. I gushed on you. I think when you were [00:03:00] here before, do I have to do that every time?
Because you’re amazing at what you do though. I appreciate that. I feel desire to do that. He really does care guys about what what your real estate needs are selling, selling, and buying and everything.
Matthew Hanks: Folks do a lot right now on selling. There’s never been a better time to sell a
Chris Gazdik: house ever. I cannot believe the prices in the housing market that I, I see blowing around the market.
I mean, it’s just,
Matthew Hanks: well, we anticipate interest rates to increase multiple times this year and the demand has already. Yeah. And so that’s just makes me a really good time to sell a house. You
Chris Gazdik: proud of me, man. I’m refinancing as we speak good for you. Yeah. Yeah. I am. That’s not a fun process though. It sucks.
All right. So this is a cool topic that we’re banging into tonight. And I actually kind of wanted to do this for a while. I guess it just spun out into different things that we’ve done since, because I actually saw a, I caught a science versus [00:04:00] podcasts that I really enjoyed because. The, the sh the show.
It was actually at a time when it was really a hot button issue with black lives matter and all of the race relations that were going on and policing and all that kind of stuff. We’re going to, I’m going to mention it and weave that in, but this is actually a broader perspective on implicit bias. So in the show notes, you’re going to see the science verses that I’m talking about.
I just really listened to it this morning, and actually it’s going to, it caused me to add Hawk, the end part, where we’re, we’re going to talk about how to avoid the effects of implicit bias, because. Man, this affects us like a lot. And policing is just one example of how, how that operates. So you kind of had a, a, an interesting perspective.
I think when you said, you know, what is implicit bias? I mean, it’s funny. Cause you were like, dude, I don’t [00:05:00] know what this, what are we going to say? How do we go with this? Yeah. But you were right on point when you were talking about Shapira. So what, what, what did you hear with that? Well,
Matthew Hanks: I think that the, the whole the whole premise of implicit bias is that we’re all behaving based off of feelings and, and our belief system.
Yeah. And we don’t even realize it right now where we are with implicit bias.
Chris Gazdik: Amazing. Right. Like why do we believe what we believe is I think. A pretty important question and a dynamic one. And I really listening to this one guys, and I actually laced it pretty good with previous episodes that we did too, because this is an interesting topic to you.
You’re going to want to check out some of those other episodes that we did and jumped deep into some of this stuff, because we’re in talking a little bit about the unconscious mind, what the mind is. Our implicit bias works specific. Examples were like parenting and marriage and we’ll mention policing and all, and then what to do about it.
[00:06:00] So th this is like a, a psychological deep dive man. This is a, it is exactly what you, you kinda just touched on. Well, I
Matthew Hanks: will defer to you as the expert on it. I’m certainly
no
Chris Gazdik: therapist. And I’m even going to point out as you say that, I don’t know how many experts there really are on this. Can I make that bold statement?
’cause when you start talking about the subconscious mind. One of the shows we did Dr. Ted Spickler taught us a lot about tacitly learning something. And he is really like, he’s an authority. He’s retired now. And he’s worked with this stuff, all of his career in the deep edges of psychology. And to hear him talk about the subconsciousness and what that was, it was really like, I could have just talked to him for hours.
And matter of fact, I have, because I’ve had the privilege of hanging out with him a couple of times, it’s deep. And I don’t think we understand it, this, this subconsciousness and the implicit [00:07:00] reality in how it affects what we believe. So I guess I’m an expert, Matthew, but. I, this is a, this is a tough topic to really get into that.
I think we’re all really learning about. So I’m gonna do my best is what I’m going to say to people. So let’s look at, you know, usually we do definitions and stuff, but this is, this is one that we want to pay attention to from the get go. So we know what we’re talking about because I’m going to make the clear statement that your implicit bias drives really why you believe what you believe.
And that goes throughout your entire life’s development. How’s that for like an overwhelming thought, everything you’ve experienced, everything you’ve been through is tracked by your subconscious mind and enters into the implicit nature of what your belief system value system perceptions are driven by.
[00:08:00] Okay. Implicit bias definition. The implicit bias is also called a unconscious bias is what, how people refer to it. And it refers to the attitudes and beliefs that are outside of our consciousness of awareness and control. Okay. There’s a very important distinction that I want us to be able to get from the get-go.
And that is what we just said, being implicit. There’s also explicit. Okay. And there’s a variation here. So implicit the word itself means implied through not plainly expressed. Or implied though, not plainly expressed. That’s what implicit is. And explicit is stated clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt.
So what that means is when you’re implicitly engaged in thought, when you’re implicitly engaged in behavior, [00:09:00] even in whatnot, right? It’s not playing, it’s not really in clear black and white concrete terms. It’s, it’s almost experienced, implied perceived. And then the explicit stuff is literally what our cognition in our frontal cortex does.
So you explicitly believe something by what you think, what you say, what your cognition is. But this is where we get into the really weird, weird world of it being implicitly driven. You’re not thinking about it. And this is a crucial point to understand this whole conversation that we’re going to have when something is implicitly understood or implicitly, you know, believed it’s just like automatic.
It’s not in your consciousness with what we’re [00:10:00] talking about. You just know what you know right Neil. I was curious, you could just give me a head shake and whatnot. When I was doing this show prep. I swear. We recently did an episode on core beliefs. Do you remember that? Yeah. You remember that to see if you could figure out where we did that because I straight up didn’t see it because if you listen to this, when you want to go back to that one, when we talked about core beliefs and because we took a deep dive on that and how that goes, all of that stuff.
Is really this implicit reality that we’re diving into tonight. So hopefully he’ll find out because I literally couldn’t find it. I just, I just know we, we talked about it. So if we’re going to go with this topic, we, we, we have to look at the subconsciousness. Okay. So I’m curious from a lay perspective outside as a real estate agents, that’s a little bit more of a topic that I think you could probably bite your teeth into.
And I’m curious [00:11:00] to gauge what people might be thinking about with their subconsciousness, with what you see or understand about that. So, so what is subconsciousness? What is that for instance, and real quick, you got it already. Holy cow. How did that go? I didn’t see that. Okay. Oh, okay. It’s episode 1 63.
And it’s the title of it is the assumptions we live by. And I stand corrected. I, I figured that out when I, when I did the show prep at first, I didn’t, but yeah, I got it. So what’s subconsciousness. What, what does that mean to you?
Matthew Hanks: I think it’s the, you know, when I think about it, it’s just the, the recesses of our minds that there’s information there and we can’t necessarily recall it.
So it’s just subconscious, not the things we think about we dwell on, but it’s, you know, the mind is so much more powerful than what we get often. Give it credit for it, the things we think and do, but subconscious is maybe memories that are there, that you can’t recollect [00:12:00] information that’s there that you’re not thinking about day to day.
Chris Gazdik: I love that statement right there. Say that again, the information and
Matthew Hanks: that is if you’re, if it’s not being like, if it’s a computer and the information is there, it’s written on the hard drive somewhere, but it’s, you’re not able to access it.
Chris Gazdik: It’s a
Matthew Hanks: storage device that you’re not, it
Chris Gazdik: is kind of an external storage device that I like a lot it’s confusing.
Right. Because it’s all of this information that we feel like we could, we could never retain with our cognition and our active short-term and long-term memory. It’s almost, I love that metaphor. It’s it’s that terabyte external hard drive that you just dump everything on, you know, pictures from 1923 and poems insane.
Matthew Hanks: You know,
Chris Gazdik: all that information and it [00:13:00] happens with everything it’s like, everything you’ve ever typed on your computer is on this storage device. Yeah. Think about how scary that is. First of all, kind of holy cow. Right. You couldn’t be more, right. So when we talk about the subconsciousness, like hypnosis is, is a thing that, that gets into that.
Okay. So I, I did a training with Neil Newfield. Awesome Neil. I love him. He was one of my best professors and he challenges us the most. He did a seminar for us on hypnosis. Now I understand hypnosis. I don’t use it in my practice. And a lot of people have a lot of questions on how hypnosis goes and what it, what it does.
And it has efficacy in treatment world. It’s really good for memory. Recall all this smoking cessation stuff. People are probably going to hate me in my field, but I don’t. It’s got some weird, fun things that people do with it, but it’s, it’s really best for like memory recall, but it’s so powerful when you get into a trance state in hypnosis, you’re literally accessing [00:14:00] that entire hard drive.
Like your subconscious knows, for instance, how many exact steps were in your childhood home, it counted it. You can give me that number when you’re dealing with your subconsciousness. Do you have a childhood home with steps. You’re talking
Matthew Hanks: about, she steps up into the house. I did. Yeah, I did too. I’m not going to be hypnotized as part of that.
Chris Gazdik: No, I’m not doing it, but we could do it when the cameras go off. How about that? That’d be fun. I
Matthew Hanks: was on stage once in college to be hypnotized and it didn’t happen. It w there was a people out of the audience to be hypnotized, and it didn’t happen
Chris Gazdik: for you. One of the chosen people. Really. Okay. Well, that’s interesting, but they
Matthew Hanks: had probably 10 or 15.
That they brought up and but some were hypnotized through what the guy did the guy did and some were not. And I was, [00:15:00] I said, those who are not go ahead and have a seat again, and then just watch the show because the things that they had them do and say, and recollect whatever the case was.
Chris Gazdik: Well, it’s an interesting thing about hypnosis.
People will kind of have some beliefs for instance, that, you know, like I can hypnotize you and make you do something that you wouldn’t do is one of the things Neil taught us that day. Sorry, Dr. Newfield, I should say. Right. You can’t do that. Like your subconsciousness is still like you, and that’s a good point to make.
Like it’s still what you believe, what you practice, what you operate from. You cannot force somebody mystically into doing something that they otherwise wouldn’t normally do. And so you were probably that day, just not in the mindset and not in a trusting state with that guy. I mean, front of these people, and I don’t want to do stuff and you won’t be hypnotized, then, it’s not like somebody can wiggle a wand and do something weird.
There were
Matthew Hanks: several that were, oh yeah. I was amazed. I’d never seen anything like that.
Chris Gazdik: [00:16:00] So w what did you see? How did they, what are some of the things you saw? I’m sure everyone in the audience or,
Matthew Hanks: well, you know, he can have a quack, like a duck. You could just tell that they were just under total control of the guy that had him hypnotized.
They can have him do anything, sound like a dog walk, walk on all fours, whatever he had them do,
Chris Gazdik: they were, he was not. He was not in control
Matthew Hanks: and certainly seem that way as part of the show, you know, he came in.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, it is. People are willing to demonstrate the power and the, and the, and the process of hypnosis.
If they weren’t, you weren’t. So you can’t be, but they’ll, they’ll have fun. Usually it’s those personalities are fun. Personalities, they’re outgoing or whatever. I’m not saying you’re not, but, but they, they, they know subconsciously what’s going on, but their inhibitions in our cognition, explicit inhibitions right there, out to lunch.
Matthew Hanks: So is this, this is have any relation to, let’s [00:17:00] say I’m being under the influence of alcohol, your inhibitions go away. Good question. Cause you say, you know, the excuse of, well, I was, I was intoxicated. I wasn’t myself. Yeah. And I just wonder, is it, is it a similar.
Chris Gazdik: You saw the wonder, look on my face. If you go to the Facebook live, you’ll see my one.
Matthew Hanks: No, it’s not much of an excuse that you were just intoxicated. Cause you’re still you.
Chris Gazdik: That’s what we’re arriving at. You’re still you under hypnosis. You’re still you in your subconsciousness. And that inhibition loss probably is more about, you know, dropping the insecurities and being intoxicated makes you euphoric.
And so you’re in an altered state of exploding dopamine in this type of thing. So all of that probably is the bigger piece. That’s my landing spot, but my quandary really is, again, going back to, I’m going to be the best expert I could be here today, but [00:18:00] this is out of the box thinking a little bit, because I don’t think we truly understand the subconscious state.
And again, this impacts our whole conversation. So you might be kind of triggering yourself to access some of those components that otherwise you kind of don’t realize, but suppress and compartmentalize and, and fragment because you don’t want to feel those feelings or do those things, or have the responsibilities that you have.
So I be curious if somebody smarter than me can answer that question. We might be tapping a little bit into that domain, but we might not do. I’m actually not sure. Right. But that’s an excellent question, honestly. And so, and, and, and along with those realities, like you’ve heard of repression before probably right.
Psychological repression that, that, that state with trauma, do you know what that refers [00:19:00] to,
Matthew Hanks: Certain areas of the brain that are just turned off because of pain? Like a scar?
Chris Gazdik: Yes, sort of. Okay. Yeah. Like I told you before the Mic’s came on, you’re going to really help me tune into where people might be w with this meaty stuff, when you go through trauma, it’s so intense.
Sometimes, you know, your uncle was inappropriate with you from age five to seven or whatever, and you’re just bloop. It’s the, memory’s not there. It’s, it’s tapped out that’s repression, but it’s absolutely fully alive in your subconsciousness. Still there. So very much on that hard drive. Now, interestingly, back to the alcohol thing, actually, when you black out, that’s when you drink too much and you, you lose memory that actually is tapping out of your subconsciousness.
People have gone through hypnosis to gain memory from blackout periods, like with alcoholism, and it’s actually not there. It’s not on the hard drive. So alcohol probably turns [00:20:00] off even the subconscious. For that limited period of time. But before that gets turned off with alcohol, I bet we’re playing around with it, to be honest with you.
Yeah. But that’s how, that’s how powerful the, the brain can be. This is such a terrible event. It’s not even in my explicit thinking process because I don’t even remember that it happened. And I’ve seen that in my therapy office, like a lot. And when people start getting well, emotionally starting to handle their emotions, their memories will come back.
It’s one of the reasons why I don’t use hypnosis in, in, in my work
Matthew Hanks: isn’t that this part of the self-preservation yeah, absolutely. Like if you get hurt and the pain is so great that you don’t even feel the pain. Absolutely. It’s like, you’re just
Chris Gazdik: exactly the same thing. Our brains are amazing organs that, that do this.
They, they, it just takes over because it’s because it’s just too much, boy, we are going into this. I told you I might make this a part one and [00:21:00] part two. And, you know, you think about it and you give me a vote because this is going to be a lot to squeeze in and we might, we might do that. Let’s let’s apply this a little bit.
Okay. Let’s apply this. So do we have a decent understanding of implicit versus explicit IM you know, the bias that our consciousness goes in with the subconsciousness creating the implicit bias? I mean, do we have a good understanding of that?
Matthew Hanks: Yes. It’s the belief system that you operate by. So it’s what makes you operate the way you do the actions that you do.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. This is a good bit of why we believe what we believe. That’s the title. Okay. Let’s apply this to a few different areas. See how this goes. All right. So marriage, right. You’ve kind of heard me talk about the EFT model, how marriage works, some of the cycles. Do you remember any of [00:22:00] that? Can you absolutely.
Yeah, I will, because this has been on the show before, and this is episode 11 and one-on-one, I refer a lot of my clients to this, this stuff. Here’s the elevator version. Right? So we learned through John Gottman’s material in his research, the patterns that marriage couples go through, right. They got wired up and you just observed people talking.
And he observed like different tendencies that people had. And he layered that back to one of two very specific insecurities that we operate by. One is engulfment the other is abandonment. Right. And engulfment people develop if you will. Almost an implicit fear. Okay. That’s a little foreshadowing here.
They develop a explicit fear as well with. Being controlled or being criticized. So engulfment people will want to develop emotional safety. So they [00:23:00] put up walls back off, create space. They’re internalized, they’re not really outward with their emotion, right? The abandonment people on the other side are concerned more with the insecurity that we probably more identify with, you know, being alone, you know not being valued, not being accepted and this type of thing.
So they’ll try to gain emotional safety by pursuing and getting close and talking and externalizing and connecting. That’s the side that I’m definitely on. I understand that. And openly share that, right? So you have three potential combinations in marriage. You’ll have two people from an engulfment where you both back off to gain emotional safety and, you know, you’re kind of in your own world.
It’s very rare, but it happens. You can also have to abandonment people. They’re just crashing and talking, talking, talking, it’s just love Fest when it’s good and a cry. We used to call this, I believe a high conflict marriage, right? And overwhelming, majority of the time [00:24:00] you have one person who pulls back to gain safety when they’re triggered and the other person pursues and pushes into the world, they’re just, they could run the person over.
Right. So this is the back and forth that couples will get into. Okay. Is that the good refresher? Oh, I got to pull your brain back into it. It does. So I foreshadowed it a little bit. Let’s think about this. How does the implicit biasness that we might have with those fears play out when you’re arguing, when you, you got that energy.
Pump up, like, what do you do want to get away from the fight? Do you want to go in at it? You know, do you, do you pursue, or do you withdraw? And how does that operate? Right. Think of the budget fights or the edginess that you get in marriage and these types of things, you know, how that works, see how that can be intense.
You know, sometimes it can be more mild. You know, [00:25:00] the thing I want to get your brains to think about is this implicit bias really applies itself. When your mind kind of goes offline. Like you’re no longer in cognition, you’re no longer explicitly thinking about what to say or what to do, what you believe, what you value you’re thrown in to an implicit bias.
If it’s engulfment, they’re trying to control me. They’re running me over there telling me what to do. They’re treating me like a child. I hear these things in my office, right? Or the abandonment implicitly. You just experience it. You’re no longer thinking. You’re thinkers, offline. Frontal cortex is kinda freaked out frazzled.
You know, it’s been electrified and [00:26:00] other pieces jump in implicit, Leigh bias to you. Don’t give a rip about me. You don’t care what I’m saying. You might fully leave me. I’m like alone in this world and you don’t even care. Right. Can you imagine some of the things that friends or yourself or in marriage, these moments that happen?
Can you see what I’m trying to say?
Matthew Hanks: I’ve always felt like it was just based off of experiences or something that’s happened in the past or they’ve, there’s a fear that they have, they’re trying to avoid. That’s causing them to behave the way they are say the things I do. Yeah. That maybe it’s implicit bias.
Yeah. Based on their past experiences.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Have you, I don’t know about you, but have you said stuff in the middle of an argument with your spouse that you kind of like to say, think back to, what did I say? Where’d that come from? Yeah. I don’t believe that stuff just rips.
Matthew Hanks: Yeah. Or something just really troubles.
You bothers you. Like why does that bother me? Yeah. [00:27:00]
Chris Gazdik: You can explicitly think I’m not worried about you leaving me. I get this abandonment stuff, but you’re, we’re married. We’re newly weds. It’s all good. Implicitly, I’m telling you, yo, you think about this, your subconscious is rattling. That’s why you’re so heated, that’s why you’re so worked up implicitly.
You’re a little child on an island and your wife is going to leave or you’re absolutely what you think you’re a child. And, and from an engulfment perspective, your, your, your, your husband is controlling you and they’re going to run you over. And you’re not even implicitly aware of it. That dude, that is huge when we are doing couples counseling and how this biasness applies to how you’re going to operate.
And here’s a question [00:28:00] for you to ponder. How do you operate in those moments when that shit has just taken over yourself? That’s a question.
Matthew Hanks: Well, I think, well, the first thing is to recognize it because I’m sure there’s couples that you sit down with, they’ve never heard of distance or pursuer, which is why you have those episodes 11 and 1 0 1 memorized, right?
Yes. Right. Yeah. You don’t have to ask Neil, what was that we referenced, but you’ve done the shows about it. They can go back and listen to it. And then once you realize that there is such a thing as distance or pursuers, probably a lot of couples that here’s a, Hey, well maybe we’re, we’re not so odd ball as a couple.
And this is things that the average couple probably is up
Chris Gazdik: against is universal. I’ll put that as a major statement. So
Matthew Hanks: identifying that there is a problem and what the problem is, that’s our first step.
Chris Gazdik: It is your own point. And once we
Matthew Hanks: wrote, cause then you can call it out, you know, then [00:29:00] you, once you realize what it is that you’re up against, then you can make a plan together to go to combat it.
Chris Gazdik: One of the first steps I oftentimes do in couples counseling now is go through that little elevator version that I just did. And then when you go into it and understand it, first of all, here’s thought that cursed him in real time. Do you know how many times Matthew people were like, well, I don’t know.
I’m not sure which one I am. I here’s what I hear. I do both. I do both of those things. I hear that all the time. That’s your explicit mind cognition thinking through this, wanting to kind of believe what you believe about yourself, right? Your implicit bias is absolutely exploding in those moments. And so it, it occurs to me.
It’s really fascinating. I honestly, that’s a new thought that I just connected. Yeah. People don’t know what they do. They really don’t know what they do. And I see this so clearly it’s fascinating to me when [00:30:00] I’m meeting with people and being with people and just observing things. And I’ve gotten, I hate this.
I don’t therapize my family and friends and all, but I almost can’t help. But seeing it now, sometimes now I can’t help it do it. After 1995 to now it’s gotten more difficult. I hate that actually about myself, to be honest with you. I don’t want to do that. And I purposely turn out off anybody who knows me.
I truly, truly do purposely turn out off a lot, but this is one that I see. So clearly it’s amazing to me that people don’t know, but I’m telling you oftentimes,
Matthew Hanks: wow. I can imagine that being one of the things that helps the most is that you make them aware of it and then you make a pointed out.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. And it’s amazing when they begin making connections, we’ll begin seeing and we’ll have conversations and.
In a session and I’ll point out, like, where did that come from? What did you just say there? And what did that mean to you? And how does that work? And they go backtrack that and they’re like, holy [00:31:00] crap. That means I want freaking space. I put up walls and I’m engulfed than I’m actually, who knew, man. Like, I’m afraid that you’re going to control me and put me in a space.
I don’t want to be in,
Matthew Hanks: but once it manifests, that’s the explicit side. Right. You’re able to point to it and say that behavior or that action or that thing you said though, now we’re talking stations explicit.
Chris Gazdik: Yes. It’s clear. It’s concrete. That’s
Matthew Hanks: external that you can see that you can recognize you could film it,
Chris Gazdik: execute intervention.
Yes, it is so awesome. When I’m walking with people and this happens in individual therapy, kind of all the time. These are some of the aha moments, you know, there was that show that we talked about. I think that, I think that Casey did that show with me, look at the assumptions that we live by. Those are those core beliefs in those aha moments where you can actually bring that out of your subconsciousness out of your implicit [00:32:00] bias and be able to put that in your immediate, real time awareness.
However, how easy you think that is to do
Matthew Hanks: this is probably one of the more challenging things.
Chris Gazdik: Listen out myself, anybody that knows me personally, you’ll probably laugh. Now. You think I’m good at doing that? No, man, when I get work. It’s off line man stuff is just being experienced and felt. I’d like to think I’m in management control of that in the moment.
But dude, come on, stuff has taken over and my, my thinkers offline, and I’m just now a human being in the middle of this. This is hard. This is super, super hard to really be able to try to bring that out in the moment, but it is kind of possible to identify it probably after the fact and get out of it quicker.
That’s really manageable. You [00:33:00] know, you’re not going to stop it though. I tell people the, the, the goal of therapy is not to stop this process from happening. We can’t, I don’t think we can. Yeah, it’s identifying it quicker and quicker might mean like, you know, tomorrow we’re five hours from now when you’ve calmed down and here’s a keyword, that’s also foreshadowing deescalated yourself.
When you deescalate yourself now, you’re like able to kind of maybe try to pull those things together and think why, what am I, what do I really want to do here? Because I don’t, I don’t want my implicit bias to operate in and be in charge because when my implicit bias is in charge and I’m taking actions with you, my spouse, let’s you say that?
Ain’t a good look. That’s not a good look. I can imagine it. Wouldn’t be, it’s apply this to another area. There’s another segment. A lot of the same thing happens when we’re dealing with our kids. So let me see where your [00:34:00] brain is and kind of understanding this and apply this to kids and parenting me.
What, what happens when we’re engaged with our kids when they’ve done what they do, right.
Matthew Hanks: Well you know, I
Chris Gazdik: think it just puts you on the spot a little bit. Big, big pause. What do I do with this? Right? Yeah.
Matthew Hanks: Well, parenting is not for cowards and you don’t have any preparation for it. You know, it’s one of those things that there’s no practice. There’s no opportunity to try it, get it wrong, fail, get it right.
And then have kids. So you’re kind of on the job training. And I think one of the ways it might manifest as if you’re too strict on your kids, because you have fears what they’re going to end up being, or I don’t want you to end up in jail, or I don’t want you to be a fear, a junkie. Right. So you’ve got a legit concern, a fear.
So that’s implicitly [00:35:00] causing you to be just overly strict.
Chris Gazdik: Day-to-day in a way it’s because I care so much and I’m so fearful. Probably more than any ways in my life. That’s that I’d have to really think about that statement as, I guess that’s why I said probably when I’m dealing with sometimes these kid issues with my children, do I lose my ever loving mind?
I mean, I hate to admit that, but I’m not always very much in control when I’m panicked about what you’ve done or what you’re doing and what I see, it feels like you’re headed 75 miles an hour, directly 500 feet away from a brick wall. And I don’t know, some stuff just takes over and I mean, I am blasting out.
I’m not really explicitly making decisions at that point. You know, when I’m parenting, that’s a [00:36:00] terrible admission. I believe in being genuine on the show. So
Matthew Hanks: what’s reality. Yeah. I mean, that’s probably a lot of what many, many parents face, maybe all parents face. We care about our kids so much, you know, that’s where superhuman strength starts coming in.
You hear stories, a mother pick up a car, literally. Thanks. Thanks. Take over literal. And it’s not, what do you say front of mind
Chris Gazdik: thinking conscious enough, that car guarantee you that she’s not feeling any pain. My lower back can’t handle this. I’ve already stretched doing yoga last week. I can’t.
Matthew Hanks: No, absolutely not.
Or the dad is going to run into a burning building to save a child for he’s going into sudden death. Yeah, yeah. To save a child. You’re not thinking that’s just things that are implicit subconscious it’s just takes
Chris Gazdik: over and how amazing our bodies are. Literally. I love using that example of picking up a car.
And that’s that’s that’s that has happened. [00:37:00] Y’all Google that crap because it’s, we’re not making something up or just making a little example of something. People have done that. How do our bodies do that? I mean, we have stuff that’s in operation within us. We can enter into a religious conversation with this.
Oh, a lot
Matthew Hanks: of it certainly,
Chris Gazdik: right. That there there’s stuff that’s in there. That’s implicit that we’re not even aware of that’s in operation. And I believe that religiously, spiritually, relationally, emotionally, it’s, it’s powerful. So all the way back in episode Rodin 15, we talked about love and logic.
I got no time to go through that, but love and logic is a, is a process of parenting where it’ll change your perspective. It’ll turn you upside down in how you operate, because it directly challenges some of the behavior choices you’ve chosen to teach life lessons to your kid and makes you think completely [00:38:00] differently about that relationship and how to go about it.
And what I would submit to you. It’s I love the way some of these shows kind of combined together, because I think about these things when I’m doing show prep guys, like I, you know, and I think out of the box and pull, you know, different things together and see how they fit and how they wire in together and new stuff occurs to me doing that all the time.
When you re understand how you want to have your relationship with your child through something like episodes, fifteens, love, and logic, you are going into your implicit assumptions, probably about what you learned from your parents. Going back to what you said, right. Probably to what you experienced growing.
Your parents taught you what you’re supposed to do as a parent. And you don’t even remember what they said, but your subconscious does knows exactly the voice intonation. Listen, I’m not making this up or exaggerated. [00:39:00] Your subconscious knows the clothes your mama was wearing. When she said what she said to drove that thought, does that blow your brain?
It blows my brain apart.
Matthew Hanks: Wasn’t it? I don’t want to say something here. That might not be true, but it seems as though didn’t eat Lon recently say that the technology has come in where they can access that information. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: I don’t know. Yeah. Go a little further.
Matthew Hanks: Where that information can be. Some of what we’re taking in can be recorded externally to computerized equipment, wholly critical.
It could be accessed.
Chris Gazdik: He’s an amazing thinker and thinks about a lot of this stuff. He, I, I’m pretty sure that Ian is very interested in psychology and he thinks about stuff. There are really amazing people that go with this Neil deGrasse, Tyson, you know what, you know who he is? No, Neil deGrasse Tyson is a, he’s a, he’s a bit, he’s good friends with the science guy.
He’s, he’s an astrophysics physicist. And he’s got an amazing brain. Do you know what he said? The most amazing [00:40:00] new found frontier for sciences. It’s not black holes. It’s not, you know, the big bang or understanding supernovas or anything. The human mind neurology. He said neurology yeah. Was, was most interesting to him.
And the biggest new frontier for science. And I couldn’t believe, I couldn’t agree more. Another one to use as an example, you know, traumatic life experiences. And I don’t have a whole lot of time to describe this, but we’ve talked about PTSD on the show and what happens with trauma, you know scared brain lost mind or scared mind loss brain was a phrase that we talked about where it’s offline, your frontal cortex and explicit thought, Gone, you’re in the middle of trauma.
He talked about it with fire and first responders and parents running into the building. That’s your mind is in control. You’re just experiencing that moment when you’re [00:41:00] entering into a traumatic reality, that’s there. And we went deep on the amygdala. What happens with trauma responses? What PTSD responses are actually a few episodes.
Think about it. When something in today’s world reminds you of what you went through. That’s implicitly action. That’s implicitly organized. That’s implicitly in operation. And you did some military time. He probably knows some guys and understand how some of that works. That makes sense.
Matthew Hanks: Oh, we, we, we see it every 4th of July or new year’s Eve and those fireworks start going off.
Those that, that stuff will trigger and it’ll take them right back to where they were when they experienced their lives, being on the line. And there’s no way
Chris Gazdik: that is an implicit bias, right? Your brain subconsciously implicitly believes you’re about to die. That’s why you’re going for cover. [00:42:00] That’s why you’re not even dramatic.
Let’s dumb that down a little bit. That’s why you feel that little elevated. Just a, just a little heart rate increase. Just a little bit of a gump. Yeah. Right. There’s a reason for that implicitly. You’re not thinking, oh, that sounds like the N 45 that blew off next to my ear. You know, the first time that I heard it when I went into a real battle, not thinking that in 45, did I say that right?
45? I don’t know my guns all super well.
Matthew Hanks: Yeah. It’s your show. Just make it up as we go. We know what you’re implying,
Chris Gazdik: right? That’s your implicit understanding of what that bang, when the, you know, m80 goes off in the air, your subconscious is there. Okay. I mean, you’re seeing this parenting trauma marriage.
We, we have made a couple of good examples, right? Here’s a good takeaway, dramatic pause, looking into the camera. [00:43:00] This affects every one. Every man, every woman, every child I’m going to suggest probably every baby. Probably not a newborn baby, because weeks in you’re really don’t have a whole lot of bias built yet.
But even a newborn baby is really beginning. I mean, that, that terabyte hard drives already starting to be used. Man, it’s already pulling data. It’s pulling experiences. It’s pulling a lot of crazy things in that you don’t have the frontal cortex even developed, which is an interesting thought your brain implicitly is already operational way before other sections of your brain are even there.
How’s that for crazy, crazy.
Matthew Hanks: I think it goes before you’re born.
Chris Gazdik: You know what neonatal professionals would probably agree with you? It would probably be, I’ve heard
Matthew Hanks: stories [00:44:00] where there’ll be a song that someone will hear and they’ll have some type of response to that song and they dig into a little bit of something about that and go back.
And it was the song that the mother play.
Chris Gazdik: In their womb
Matthew Hanks: while they were still in the womb and things like that. So I don’t think these things start. I think it starts way back before being born.
Chris Gazdik: I think you’re probably absolutely right thinking about it. Absolutely. It’s an excellent point because you know, there are operational aspects to that and, and we’re reacting to that.
Your baby reacts to you in the womb, right? Women talking about
Matthew Hanks: that all the time. Of course, not just to the woman, either they could recognize voices, sound waves,
Chris Gazdik: sound waves. That the, the, the vibrations of what listen, I get, I get my mind is blown. I really started thinking about the science of this stuff.
And it’s so cool. Again, neurology, it is picking up, feel [00:45:00] sight, taste, everything that you hear in the womb. It’s all operational. Yeah. And going on that terabyte hard drive. Yeah. Yeah. You’re absolutely right. There’s was another segment and this wouldn’t gets, this one gets a little edgy. This is where I want the audience to tune in.
It was really kind of impressed with the Genesis of this show was actually November, 2019, where I was like, oh, that would be really cool. And I actually had to build up my belief that I could talk about this, frankly, and research it and study it. I put a lot of, and energy into this episode. I’m not going to lie because.
That particular show it’ll be on our show notes and all, and it was really, really cool. Now this wasn’t a tough time. This was in the, the, the throng of the race relations that we had going on. Lots of questions about police, police, shootings, police violence, and, and all that goes on to [00:46:00] that. And I thought they covered it really well.
I think I agreed with most everything that they, that they talked about on there, and it had good solid research backing up kind of the things that they thought about my point is not to understand that I’m going to let the show go with what they did, but the parts that they, that they talked about, that they landed on the most effective component.
I’m going to say again, I said it at the top of my show that today actually is going to make me ad hoc. What I had actually prepared for dealing with implicit bias and because they reminded me of, of the result on what happened. Two police officers and all of us through parenting through marriage, through business partnerships.
Anytime we get triggered that we are all affected by this and very serious actions are taken, you know, when we’re committing murder, people do that stuff takes over when we’re picking up [00:47:00] cars and saving our kids, stuff takes over. So it changed my mind a little bit or added a very important component that I’ll talk about hearing in a minute on, on what the work, because you don’t hear police body cams, you hear w what’s the race-related trainings to, to, to make people more sensitive to different races.
What, what is that? That was big. Just brain fart competencies. Racial terms that we’ve developed these trainings and stuff to try to get sensitivity training. That’s it exactly. This is the whole sensitivity training thing that went on. However you feel about that. I don’t know. It is absolutely clear to me and I’ll make the statement.
They made it on the show that when we’re looking at situations with first responders, when stuff goes awry, probably a hundred percent of the time, Matthew fear is driving those responses. And what would we say about trauma? What did we say about parenting? Hmm. What did we say about marriage fights and marriage attachments?[00:48:00]
Your frontal cortex goes offline. Your implicit bias jumps in place. Your subconscious comes out because it’s killer be killed and you lose control of conscious thinking and decisions. That’s what happened. You know, with, with these horrible situations that pop up, you know, I think probably most of the time people aren’t trying to do bad and not trying to, you know, screw somebody’s life up or any of those things.
Yeah. By the way, just with this little segment, please support your police officers and firefighters and people that drive those ambulances. I’ll give you another one. Those people that are answering the 9 1, 1 calls and as a trauma filled world y’all know, trauma filled world, and I’m afraid I’ll make this bold statement, that to a man and a woman in those situations, oftentimes [00:49:00] what did we say in the beginning of this show, you have to become aware, right?
That you have these biases. They don’t, they don’t know. Oh, that’s cool. I’m not affected. I I, you know, I’ve got training, you know, I know what I’m doing. They don’t know how powerful this is. Just like, you didn’t really probably realized it before you heard the hopefully good descriptions of this. How in control of these implicit biases are right smack in the middle of your bedroom.
It marriage it’s affects all of us, man. I don’t think there’s anybody that isn’t impacted by this. Do I have your brain thinking about some of this?
Matthew Hanks: Sure. No. I th I think that’s, it’s one of those that we probably all wonder at one point or another, whether depending, how deeply go with it, why do we feel the way we feel?
Why do we act the way we act? What makes us call it? What causes us to make the decisions that we do? Where’s the strife coming [00:50:00] from at times. And I think anybody that’s married probably wonders. Why are they doing what they’re doing? And the spouse feels the same way about the other. So
for us to talk through this and look at it at a, at a way to say, maybe that’s helped me understand who I am or who you are and how we interact together. Yes. And then that’s just on a one-to-one basis. And then it’s a group and it’s a neighborhood and it’s a community. And now we’re talking cities and states and countries, but it starts just with that.
Just, just what that husband and wife scenario
Chris Gazdik: now consider the source. You know, Mister through a therapists eyes here, I was here since 1995, working in psychology and mental health and substance abuse as I have. Right. So consider the source, but I’m going to make the statement when you’re talking about racism, mental health is right in the middle of.
[00:51:00] Right in the middle of that, when you’re talking about police violence, mental health is right in the middle of that in some religious circles, you have people talking about the demise of the family in the American culture. Guess what, what do you think? I believe
Matthew Hanks: you believe that implicit bias is right at the heart of it,
Chris Gazdik: all of these things, all of these things, fear and subconsciousness and the implicit bias and the mental health factors, the psychological woo weird stuff right in the middle of it.
I think that’s true. Like I said, consider the source. Why wouldn’t I think that. But I think I’m being objective about that. And I know don’t send me any hate mail or an email and all this. I know there are a lot of other things kind of going on in the world and, and in our behavior, I mean, this isn’t exclusive, but it’s a pretty big chunk of why we have divorce problems.
It’s pretty big chunk of what we’re talking about with, with [00:52:00] police and first responders. It’s a pretty big chunk of what’s happening with the absentee father ism in eighties, we talked about, remember how that was a big thing. You know, it’s a pretty big chunk of divorce and just all of these different factors where your implicit bias pops out.
Okay. I made a decision a little bit ago. We are going to do a part two on this. I’m going to have easy show prep next week, two easy, easy show prep, because I’ve thought about
Matthew Hanks: this a lot. We’ve touched on a couple of times. Oh,
Chris Gazdik: yeah. You’re this month, the whole month, the whole month. I hope unless we have to reschedule, got to go do
Matthew Hanks: on implicit bias, but give me a chance to think about it a little more to absolutely bring a little more substance to the table because we’re kind of exploring this as a topic, but you know, anything that’s going to impact all behavior, human interaction, all relationships is something worth exploring.
Yes. Anything that’s affecting every person and every [00:53:00] interpersonal communication interaction. It’s worth two parts.
Chris Gazdik: If not every, almost every dang near every that’s a big word forever. Always forever. No one, everyone. I don’t like those permanency words. I usually pull them out of people’s vernacular or their, their language.
When, when, when I’m in session with people, I don’t like them. Yeah. Like every that’s that’s I think applies here. And again, my eyes just get wide. When I think about this stuff and how impactful it is, how much harm it creates. And so we’re going to take a deeper dive than I wanted to try to squeeze into this thing on what do you do about this?
That’s going to be, you know, I’ll probably come up with a different title to grab people into this and we’ll, we’ll, we’ll do that next week. What do you do about, you know, preventing your behavior? That’s, that’ll probably be the title actually, as a matter of fact. Right. But I have a don’t turn off yet.
All right. We got deployed. We’ll go. Next week. [00:54:00] Here is what happened to me when I relisten to that episode. And this is, this is like a little bit ago in my head when I was thinking, do we want to do a part two or do we want to do this and that? And the other here’s here’s what I thought. We, so we, we have two goals.
When we’re dealing with this stuff, okay. One is just maintenance and management through this horrible fight. Let’s just take marriage, right? Just, you know, how can I come back down? How can I get through this interaction? I’m losing my mind. She, or he’s losing their mind. We’re clearly not being productive.
This is a nasty fight. It’s bad. The, the immediate thing is what do we do with that? How do we deal with that? And I have something that we’re going to be able to do. This is what I was going to ad hoc to immediately impact those kinds of moments. But the other goal [00:55:00] is much more difficult. And that’s where we’ll spend a lot of time.
Next time. That’s what a lot of my show prep was. That’s a lot of what we talked about on that episode. 1 63. Yes, I got it. Neil gave me the thumb up. How do you change? Aspects of what was previously an implicit bias talking about all that we’ve talked about. Matthew, does that sound easy or hard?
Matthew Hanks: Well, I think that’s realizing that the problem exists and maybe that it’s you know, you’re, you’re facing it and then the plan to overcome it, two completely different things.
Oh my gosh. Yes. And, and one can happen like a light bulb. The other is, you know, realizing that the, the, the issue is there can happen quickly and then fixing it is the long road. It,
Chris Gazdik: and, and, and, and I really want to encourage the long road for people don’t bail out from the effort effort that, that [00:56:00] you can put into this.
Oh my gosh, because it’s so worth it. And this is what I see when marriage counseling goes, well, people reconstitute an entire family. And I don’t want to get too dramatic here, but we can reconstitute an entire community and I’m going to make a statement that sounds crazy, but there’s a lot of crap going on in our country, Republicans and Democrats in the splits that we have the splice in the middle and everybody’s all polar.
We can reconstitute a country. If you feel that we need to through this stuff, I believe. Does that sound like a crazy statement? That’s a
Matthew Hanks: pretty big picture that we’re painting, but anything’s
Chris Gazdik: possible. So let’s get back to an immediate effect. There’s one word and it’s deescalation. Okay. Deescalation. So here’s what I [00:57:00] mean by that.
And we got, we got time to kind of go into this and I’m glad. This is the immediate goal. And this will give you a lot of hope about, I mean, I don’t know if we’ve painted a little bit of a bleak picture, right? Like, you know, oh my God, I’m out of control. This is bad. It’s okay. Because by the way, a lot of implicit bias that you have is by the way, I’ll make this point.
It’s great. Absolutely. On point, totally healthy. The world is a wonderful place. That’s your implicit bias. I am a lovable person. These are core beliefs that you might have as a part of actually your implicit bias. I don’t think I’ve made that point at all today. Have I? The positive nature of this? No.
Yeah,
Matthew Hanks: yeah, no, I think we’ve painted it in a negative light. Yeah. I probably shouldn’t have did that. So it could be positive or negative. Absolutely. Why don’t we let that be a focus on part two?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, I need a pen. Just, just
Matthew Hanks: to make sure that we have, we make a point of that. Yeah. And implicit biases.
I mean, bias. We automatically think [00:58:00] negative. So let’s, let’s just explore the positive side of it. And then in part
Chris Gazdik: two, I liked that a lot. I like that a lot. So the first goal is much more attainable, much quicker, much easier to go with much easier to to attain and maybe I’ll switch just for purposes of switching.
We had a few examples. Let’s go to parenting. Okay. When I’m talking about deescalating, I’m talking about getting charge of your heart rate, right? Get in charge of your blood pressure. Get in charge, Craig graves, awesomely talked about, you know, the, the, the the stuff that he had, what it was, it was Craig’s stuff, you know, The repeatable, unbeatable mind, procedures and process.
And he, he spent a lot of time teaching us about, you know, those strategies and he spent a lot of time talking about breathing, right? These are to make your mind unbeatable. Craig taught us [00:59:00] when those episodes that was about a month or two ago. And go back to that one to these shows really weaving together.
When you use that breathing, when you use thought process, when you use simple procedures to deescalate yourself, you’re way more in control. And here’s the way it looks like little Johnny just did something crazy at school. You’re sitting at home kids at home and you get the call from the school. Have you ever gotten a nasty call from a school?
I’m sure
Matthew Hanks: I have specific schemes are awesome
Chris Gazdik: though. In general. I have definitely gotten a call. Love you, Aaron and Adam. I love you guys. But the reality of it is I’ve gotten those calls and I have lost my mind when I get that call. And when I’m in the middle of being all worked up and heated and worried, and truth is afraid.
Like we talked about when that fear is hitting me, [01:00:00] is that the time that I need to go to little Johnny and have a conversation with them about what the teacher just told me on the
Matthew Hanks: phone? No, don’t never punish when you’re angry, right?
Chris Gazdik: Never not a good idea. Let’s stop.
Matthew Hanks: Let the heart rate get back down.
It’s got to come get a level mine. Then you can address the situation. Go take a
Chris Gazdik: walk. Use your energy to explode into a workout. Go hit yoga, go listen to music. These are deescalation escalation practices. Craig would tell you go for a 20 minute episode. If you’ve built that skill of box breathing, he told us a lot about that when he was on with us, that deescalates you, that brings you down, that makes you sane again so that you could explicitly go through the process of trying to teach a kid a life lesson at a very valuable time, because something big just happened.
Right. Do you see how [01:01:00] powerful that is? Unfortunately, the reality of it is what do you think a lot of.
Oh,
Matthew Hanks: there’s I think the, the conscious decisions of most people, they don’t realize any of this. I would imagine. I mean, if you haven’t been taught this or you don’t realize it, it’s, it’s difficult to respond to that.
You, it cause everything inside of you tells
Chris Gazdik: you to react. I’m teaching this, I know about this, and I’m going to make the confession that I have not followed this a hundred percent of the time.
Matthew Hanks: Wait, who of us have a hundred percent of the time, but realizing just cause I know I was taught that to never punish when you’re angry.
Just keep just, I know there’s techniques and you can look at it a lot of different ways, but just keep it that simple. Don’t punish when
Chris Gazdik: you’re angry. So to wet your whistle, it was interesting. I was just debating in my head and I just looked, we have we have another minute or two, a couple, few minutes, and I want to go at it to demonstrate in a cultural way, how powerful this can be.
And they talked about this on that science versus that I thought was pretty cool. And [01:02:00] they specifically looked at police officers and shootings and how that worked. And I’ll bravely go into that world because I believe in mental health being in the middle of it. And I think it can be helpful for us to understand what’s going on instead of doing, remember what I said that other goal was doing these trainings, what was that?
Cultural training again, I keep on blanking on it, the sensitivity training, you know, the sensitivity trainings and the different things that have kind of gone on to help people do that. Change your thought process change the way you see the world. Holy cow, we ain’t doing that in a conference y’all you can spend a week in a conference to try to do that.
This is a long-term involved process and they made that point at the end of the show. And instead we want to do this deescalation proc practices. We want to do this deescalation in policies and procedures and whatnot, and the example that they used because he was looking at some research. If I remember, cause I just listened to it this morning, they looked at a lot of police shootings.
Do you know what a lot of police [01:03:00] shootings happen is on chase situations, run and chase run and chase run and chase report. After report, after report run and chase these things. Build you up you’re you’re, you’re chasing a criminal down and your adrenaline is pumping and you are absolutely wired. Can you imagine me in a high-speed car chase?
I ain’t been in that situation and I’m not going to claim. I understand it other than what I’m saying now, they suggested to make a policy change. That of course not in a life death situation, it’s, that’s more, you know, rapid pace and speed. But when you have the opportunity after you’ve chased and you’ve subdued the person, they said, the policy is literally get to count to 10.
And they suggested that through pretty solid research, it seemed that decreased the use of physical force by 23% in this particular study that they looked at that spoke volumes to me. When I’m looking at all the psychological [01:04:00] realities here, simply count the 10 you’re running, you’re running, you’re running you’re after the criminal.
I’m going to get this guy. I got God, I can’t believe this. Guy’s putting me in danger. Oh my God. She’s putting all these people in danger. You’re after him. And then you get there and you’re like 1, 2, 3. I’m going to take him out. I’ve taken down 4, 5, 6. Why is it? Are we okay? Seven, eight. I don’t want us to kill this guy.
I don’t want to take him down 8, 9, 10. It’s okay. Put your hands behind your back. Let’s do what we gotta do here. They probably did a better job describing that, but if you do some deep breathing, calm yourself down, having an agreement between you and your wife, we’re going to have a conversation when we’re both agreeable to do this.
How much better do you think that’s going to go then if you just go at it in the middle of talking about like we’re, you know, $7,000 in debt and I don’t know what to do, and I’m afraid of this. And [01:05:00] now we’re going to talk about how we’re going to spend money. Doesn’t go very well. All right. I am. Doesn’t go very well.
So deescalation is the goal, calm yourselves down. When you’re dealing with something that’s traumatized you, when you’re dealing with something that’s going on in your marriage, when you’re dealing with something that you’re dealing with with your kids. And I want to end on the idea that there is so much hope here for us to be able to be much more in management control of all the automatic processes that we want to get engaged with.
And next week, we’re going to talk about that more involved process and some things to do to do that bigger second goal. All right. Have I hurt your brain? Cause mine’s hurting.
Matthew Hanks: It’s a lot to think about now. You haven’t hurt my brain. It’s plenty to think about you know, I’m, I’m not researched the studies and all like you have, but you know, we, all this impacts everybody.
So it’s just something to explore further. And I love the idea [01:06:00] of thinking of the positive aspects of it. Yeah in part two.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Thank you for bringing that out. I missed it and we will definitely have that as a part of a different title than what we did here today, which is why do we believe what we believe? And maybe we’ll we’ll title that.
Why do we do what we do? Right? Because those are, those are really so closely tied in, in conjunction with each other. So y’all have a great week we’re cold in the winter here, so stay warm out there. And if you’re in a warm place, I’m jealous of you. Take care, have a good week, everybody. Thank you.
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