As a continuation on the topic of getting the most out of therapy, Chris welcomes therapist Melissa Enoch. She has been practicing longer than Chris (by 1 year) and has been primarily focusing on mandated therapy vs voluntary therapy. This difference allows her to bring a fresh perspective of the course she follows with her patients and the important of being efficient with her sessions.
Tune in to see How to Get the Most Out of Therapy Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
How Reach Melissa – melissaenoch.com, trinitycounselingcharlotte.com, trinitycounselingservicesburlington.webs.com
Listen for the following takeaways from the show:
- Welcome experienced therapist Melissa Enoch to the Show.
- During the start of your sessions, you need to communicate with the therapist how you are doing.
- It’s about building rapport on both sides.
- Mental Health Wellness is a mandate for everyone.
- You need to let your family be your family and your friends be your friends.
- See a professional to help you confront and deal with your mental health.
- You should check out he Pretty Place in Cleveland South Carolina. Great place to re-center your mental health, especially at sunrise or sunset.
- What are the things you need to do to prepare yourself for your sessions?
- Don’t ask your therapist to “co-sign” your bad behaviors.
- Mandated vs Voluntary sessions are handled differently because of source and timelines.
- I’ve Got 99 Problems… provides guidance and a timeline to help prepare you for therapy.
- You have to dig up all the roots and get to a good foundation, so they don’t grow back.
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Episode #185 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello, everybody. Now you might not realize this, but this is kind of a special edition for us on a Saturday morning instead of our normal Thursday recording spot. So welcome to through a therapist eyes. This is episode, I think. 186, if I’m 85, Neil’s correcting me. So pretty cool that we’re getting up there.
We’re going to hit 200 soon. You know, we need to do something special for that. Maybe. I am Chris Ghazni county, mental health and substance abuse therapist since 1995. Still got the book out, Reunderstanding Emotions and Becoming Your Best Self. So we welcome you to, Through a Therapist’s Eyes the podcast, where you get personal insights directly from a therapist in your own home or personal time in your car.
Today, we’ve got two therapists that you get personal insights directly [00:01:00] in your own home and personal time. And your car double time. Ms. Melissa Enoch is with us more on that in a moment. See the world through the lens of a therapist this time two therapists, but to be aware is not delivery therapy services.
Help us out. Thank you so much for being with us around the world. It’s really cool to know that we’re dealing with something, especially Melissa, you helped me understand may is mental health
Melissa Enoch: month, right? May is mental health month. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: so we fired it up. We said before the mix came on, we’re we’re starting off, I guess the month.
Right. So I knocked them off. Matter of fact, I guess when the show comes out, it’ll it’ll actually be in may I think so. What else to say? The five stars really do help us out the. Responses on apple iTunes, the comments that really does broaden our scope. So we really ask you to, to help us out. We got the merge button.
We got a jigsaw puzzle. I love talking about on the merchandise. Okay. You can check that out. It’s thousand pieces, 500 pieces. Great for a lobby. Have any bought them for [00:02:00] my lobby yet. I got to get on that. I gotta get on that. Well, the
Melissa Enoch: picture isn’t,
Chris Gazdik: Neil made it, he says it’s a, the logo and the different design patterns.
And then it says, let’s figure this thing out together. Neat. Right. It says the line of the show. I think you’ve heard, right? Yeah. Which I get to say this with you. Do you want to take the honor? What do we do? What do we endeavor to do on through a therapist? Eyes, the human emotional experience. Together
Melissa Enoch: together.
It’s almost like no hardware. That’s funny to me.
Chris Gazdik: So we do have the pray of pleasure and benefit. And I think Melissa, I’d like to publicly thank you really seriously for, for reaching out. It was really neat. So you too can be on through a therapist size, by the way, I look directly in the camera for our YouTube and Facebook live viewers, because that was kind of cool.
I really appreciated you reaching out. I think it was on LinkedIn, right? Yeah. Yeah. You said you had caught the show, check things out and you’re just telling me, you remember when I was picking the cover for the book. That was funny. Yeah.
Melissa Enoch: Yeah. It’s been a minute, right? Cause your book’s been out for what?
About two years? [00:03:00]
Chris Gazdik: Well, yeah, well, there’s a lot, a lot of prep time before it launches, but as you probably know, and
Melissa Enoch: well, no, I dropped my books and. Well, the, the last I’ve got 99 problems, but being saved as in one of them, it was a vision board a last ditch effort at the end of December, I had to get a person to help me pull it through and published December 19.
I had just finished it. Oh really? Yeah. So I didn’t do prep time. I just, I can’t say I didn’t do prep time. It’s been prepared over a course of 25 years, but finally descending down and actually putting it on in budget. Did that.
Chris Gazdik: Boom. Yeah. All y’all don’t want to be authors, man. He’s got to sit down.
He’s
Melissa Enoch: got to do it. I mean, they suggest you, if you want to do a 10,000 word book that you just write like an hour a day, that within a month, you’ll
Chris Gazdik: have it. Yeah. I’m dragging it out a little bit. I’m writing the second book now on marriage. That’s a little bit of a foreshadowing for y’all it’s coming [00:04:00] out, but I’m not, I’m taking my time.
Cause I didn’t want to bring another book out in the, in the pandemic. That was tough. That was tough. And the fact is. When you, when you’re working with a publisher, Morgan, James, I mean, there’s, there’s this like six, seven month buildup. I mean, it’s done, it’s ready, but it’s like so much steam. Yeah. Doing all your, your tricks of the trade and whatever, but all right, well, you already hear a voice.
This is Melissa Enoch. Let me tell you about this lady. So it was funny. We were building off of this show, how to get the most out of the therapy. And I think it’s a cool show from building off of what we did last week. Well, it’s not out yet, so I’m sure you didn’t catch it. Melissa, we talked about what is therapy versus what it’s coaching and, and Greg Greg.
Resonant coach. So he was the previous cohost for awhile. So we talked a little bit about the inner scope of what we do business wise and what therapy is and the ins and outs of it. So one of the things we spent a lot of time last week talking about is the licensure process that we go to. So [00:05:00] this is ladies letters I was building up to.
So this is Melissa . She has an LLC MHC, a Q S, and LLC, a S a C C S, and an
Melissa Enoch: M-Sci. And the running joke on my best friend is what other alphabets are you going to add to your name? I slow that down a little bit. It just kept on going. I think I’m hooked on ladders at this point. Yeah. I mean, I
Chris Gazdik: could do the same in, in BSA.
What would be my, my degrees putting in there. It would be BSW MSW. LCSW. I used to have an ATO D as well,
Melissa Enoch: so yeah, just keep on going with the alphabet there’s acronyms. And he had to explain them, which
you
Chris Gazdik: did. I got the most of this off of your LinkedIn profile. It’s a licensed clinical addiction specialist in North Carolina, substance abuse, professional practice board, as if she’s a board member or a licensed professional counselor, the North Carolina board of licensed professional counselors and the Mac.
I really didn’t even know what [00:06:00] that was. A master addiction counselor.
Melissa Enoch: This is fancy for you. Had a lot of years of services, a national from NASDAQ. So NASDAQ gave you the privilege of if you’ve had several years in the field and could prove it by your training, and then they gave you the master, almost like an electrician.
I think.
Chris Gazdik: Thanks. Craig was really surprised about last week is all the training that we go through and do, and then continue to do. I mean, it’s a lot compared to coach in the field. Yeah, well, they do a lot, man. I started it. DSM three. That’s going back to me. So she’s got lots and lots of schooling is what I said.
She graduated Walden state university, February 14, and master’s in mental health counseling specialize, a forensic counseling. That’s kind of cool. University of Phoenix, April eight master’s of business administration, central Piedmont community college, 94 human services, certificate specialist substance abuse counseling, and the university of North Carolina at Charlotte.
The 49ers, they have a football team. [00:07:00] Yeah, I didn’t do that. Like that football deal, like the football and it may 93 with a bachelor’s of arts degree in psychology and a minor in sociology. So she’s worked in the field, many fashions, DUI services, detox program, work release, and restitution services, group counseling, and now kind of doing some EAP stuff.
And you have your office in Charlotte. How can they contact you? What do you do? Did I do a good job? How did
Melissa Enoch: they get up with you? So Melissa Trinity counseling@gmail.com is the email Trinity counseling. charlotte.com is the website. I have a lot of websites, Melissa anik.com is the website for me speaking.
And those. Oh cool. Trinity counseling services, Burlington. That way it was.com. I’ve got too many websites. I mean, the list just keeps going on. Don’t even worry about it. I’ll tag it.
Chris Gazdik: He’s pulling the mic up, email me that
Neil Robinson: list. I haven’t dropped them, but they’ll be on the show
Chris Gazdik: notes, copy and paste, [00:08:00] copy and paste.
So we’ll get to the book in a minute, but you know, it’s funny. One of the things that I like about this show is through a therapist. I was right. I try to, you know, pull people into the therapy office and then what we experienced and how we deal with issues and things. So this is a, this is a genuine revelation right here.
I’m going to do, right. So this is really truly like what it’s like to, to, to be in a therapy office with a therapist as there’s me, maybe yourself, but I’ll speak for myself. Yo, I didn’t sleep well at night and my brain is tired and I have, I would same here watching star Trek Odyssey last night, right? So what happens for me is I come in, I’m like completely dead headed, like, you know?
Yeah. It’s funny because I’m drinking coffee on a Saturday morning and you see on the YouTube and the Facebook link or the Facebook live. I got my penguin coffee. I drink a coffee cup out of this
Melissa Enoch: every morning. I left mine outside. My best friend gave me a mug. And it was a huge mug. It’s like I’m big [00:09:00] 50 ounces.
And I was like, why not? Hey, why the heck would she give me a 50 ounce mung until I did the math? I in the morning I make, I brew a half of a pot of a 12 cup and each cup is eight ounces. So six times eight is 48. I was like, I’ll be doggone. I am consuming almost 50. You know, they were like, when, when you, when we get into the conversation, you see, I have attention issue.
So apparently I’m giving myself a stimulant what’s happening, natural Adderall. I didn’t, I didn’t, I didn’t put it together, but that’s exactly what that’s true. And if I don’t have it, I go through withdrawals. I’m scattered my I say my recommended daily allowance when I say I I get headaches. I mean, everything, everything happens.
And then, you know, I guess there’s a guy that is selling and I’m not gonna promote his, but it’s, it’s some type of whatever, but it’s supposed to take you off of coffee and I’m a real coffee addict. Cause I’m personally, I’m like, I don’t even think so. I’m not doing, I’m not doing that [00:10:00] program. I think not
Chris Gazdik: on actually a decaf guy.
No decaf guy. Yeah. I’m back to my decaf ways, but not today, today,
Melissa Enoch: today, and right, right then, you know as, as a real person that uses, I’m like decaf the heck what the heck is that?
Neil Robinson: I switched to half calf. I drink. So cause I cut out soda. I, and I switched it a lot to coffee. I have to drink half calf or I won’t sleep.
So I’ll drink. Like I do like three quarters of our. Between my wife and me and I had at one point, I’m like, okay, this is not good. So I just,
Melissa Enoch: I guess you can taper down, I guess if I, if I really put my mind to it, I guess that might be, but not
Chris Gazdik: to that field, you know, to do that back to my point, was that look, there’s, there’s sort of a gearing up.
Isn’t there. I mean, you know, I’m more alive now I’ve started my coffee, but I’m in the conversation now. And when I don’t know about you, but when I sit down with somebody, it’s kind of like, even when I’m in that, like, boom, I come in and
Melissa Enoch: like, and you tell all that switch. And when you go into therapy, like you just told me that and [00:11:00] I acknowledged it.
And so at this point, I’m just, do you see me gear back? I’m like, I was like, I’m ready. But then I’m like, okay, he’s not ready yet. You know, when you come into therapy, a lot of times you’re apprehensive or whatever is happening. Tell, you know, say, say to your therapist or I say to you, I, you know, I found this easily or I’m just not feeling good today.
Or, you know, just go ahead and communicate those things that you feel or thinking. So did he just get it out on the table? And instead of, you know, You know what I mean? It’s not even a fake it till you make, because this is a relationship that we’re building. And it sounds to me be open and honest one, so, okay.
You know, it’s a
Chris Gazdik: really good teaching point and I appreciate that right off the get go. How do you make the most out of therapy experience? Well, your point there is very well taken. You know, people will sit down and very first interaction. I mean, sometimes is man. I’m, I’m really not having a great day or.
Man, I feel really up today, it’s been a great week or I’m wore out or whatever your [00:12:00] disposition is, is very helpful to put into. And then it’s interesting to Melissa, as you go through don’t you see people move and change throughout that conversation because you’re dealing with stuff and you get dialed in.
So that’s a, that’s a really good point.
Melissa Enoch: This is your first air. If it’s your first time, you know, this is your first time. First time last week while we were at the conference, I did my first time zip lining. Okay. I went through a lot of emotional things with the whole, you know, they catastrophize and even before, you know, so like, when you think I’m going to go do therapy, you’re already thinking the worst.
What did I see on TV? What did someone shared with me, you know, about that experience and it creates your own, you didn’t even have the experiences yet. It creates the apprehension. Right. You know, so I put that out there
Chris Gazdik: and I say that as well, you know, I look I’m, this is, this was hard to come today, you know?
And it’s good to know that because then I contended that it’s total, you know, the one that I liked the best. I love it. When people come [00:13:00] down and sit down in a therapy, you know, established relationship, especially, or whatever. I don’t think anybody’s ever said it on the initial assessment, but they’ll sit down and be like, I don’t know, Chris.
I, I kind of don’t have anything today, man. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know what we’re gonna talk about this. And inevitably, inevitably, I don’t know what you found, but that’s when the good stuff actually comes out in the therapy process, man. That’s when you get
Melissa Enoch: to that, I just thought, you know, they I had an intern that sat with me and he he told me that I, what did he use the term?
And it bothered me ramble. That’s what he, he used the word ramble. And so I told him rambling is walking aimlessly without a direction. Right. But I will interact with my clients and I learned that there’s a term for it. And I didn’t realize it, that it applies to the manner in which I wrote this book.
It’s called narrative. I looked it up narrative health, but it can be narrative mental health. So you’re telling a story. So when somebody walks into the drawers theory, well, I don’t know. [00:14:00] Yeah, because he’s gone, but you know, it’s like when you, like, when a person walks in and like, I see you have the West Virginia university.
And so I’ve been to West Virginia, I’ve driven through West Virginia. I’ve been to some places in West Virginia that a therapist probably shouldn’t own this. They’ve been there. Come on a. Yeah. You know, there’s a track like just past, but you know, so I know, so, so that’s where I know West Virginia, I think it’s in, it’s in Charleston, right?
I think I had, I had a coworker that was actually, he went to West Virginia. His name was Jay. Okay. So, so, so we create, you know, so this is where we poor connection. This is a connection and it was, you know, what, what else do we know about West Virginia? Are you from West Virginia? So when somebody sits down in a chair, you don’t even, we’re doing therapy today.
No, you don’t even have to do that. Just have a conversation
Chris Gazdik: constantly finding candidates for and finding the commonalities and [00:15:00] apps. Absolutely could couldn’t agree more. So let me, let me put the, put it over to you to kind of maybe tell us a little bit about where you’re from what, what, what you like to do for fun and lead into if you would it was an interesting thing that you said The 30 year journey to write the book 99 problems, but being saved.
Isn’t one of them. So none of that’s a lot. Who are you? Where are you from? What do you mean by 30 year journey to write this book?
Melissa Enoch: So I’m and Neil, I’m including you in the conversation because we make a triad. So, you know, I’m from Alamance county, I’m in North Carolina. So Alamance county is just outside of Greensboro.
Aliments county is a rectangle. It takes five elements, counties to make a Mecklenburg. That’s how I have to explain to people that it’s a really small town. So I was, I was raised there. Even further back, I’m an adopted child. So my parents adopted me at the age of six months. And what was interesting is my mother told me this story of being adopted at the age of four, [00:16:00] which I guess she thought I was material mature enough to know what that meant, but she was like, you know, we we loved you, you know, we, we found you, we picked you out.
And initially I believed that my parents were from Forsyth county. I later learned they were from Gaston county and I learned that around about when I was a sophomore and I have to add this Nim. I my high school, my, I have to say my, my high school, my elementary school was all river. Okay. So whole river hollow river.
And one of my classes
Chris Gazdik: that’s back in the woods,
Melissa Enoch: somewhere burgers used to go. He hauled river Roma, Lord Jesus. Yes but no. And then the name of my middle school was grand middle school. Guess what the mascot was? What’s that say tins St and Satan, Satan, Satan. That’s like the devil really can’t make this up.
So renaming
Chris Gazdik: things.
Melissa Enoch: That way it gets better. It gets better. Okay. It can’t get any better than this Graham [00:17:00] high class of 1988 red devil. I shoulda brought the mug just to pull them up. So if anybody Facebook live is from give, if they tagged, if I’m tagged in this Melissa Enock confirmed that. That’s what
I mean, I knew her, we have the mug, we had the, you know, you had to buy the PE shirt. And the PE shirt was the actual devil’s face. Right. Then even funnier, nearly gets better and I’m a Christian, so it gets better. So what’s even funnier is they decided they were going to rename the schools. That’s what we do now.
And they were like, so they cause of Grinnell, Graham metal is called the Falcons, but they were kicking and screaming. So they didn’t change the Graham read. That was, but I can’t make this up. We had the P shirts and everything with the real devil head on. Oh, well we might imagine that
Chris Gazdik: the Mountaineer has, [00:18:00] it has a musket rifle.
Melissa Enoch: It’s so crazy. The other part about Alamance county and, and I would have to say is probably one of your more, more racist. Field. I mean, we have a Confederate guy that stands in front of our courthouse. I didn’t even realize he was there, who he is. I don’t even know no element don’t even know who he is, why he’s there.
Right. And so when they took down silent Sam at UNC chapel hill, they and then Durham, I guess they were going to take down a statue there. They decided to make their way to Alamance county and had basically at a standoff. And now it’s encased in a $30,000 fence, you know? So when people, you know, say, well, where are you from?
Or your experience with racism or discrimination? I have to say I’m from the Memorial racist county possible, you know, and how did we live there when my mother you know, she, she actually, she passed and August of 2020, my adopted mother, when I say my mother, I mean her, so. When she passed and 2020 her [00:19:00] old thing was, she started working even before segregation in the mills of Alamance county.
I did 64 and her whole thing was. Just pay me, you know what I mean? And let me go about my way and let me take care of my family. So we didn’t. So I didn’t, you know, like the conversations we have now about racism and things that was never a conversation. Matter of fact, I would ask her about like coming through life in the sixties, coming through life in the seventies.
And that’s part of my book where I do the whole timeline business. So that’s the lead in to that, like the 30 year journey, the 30 year journey really started even earlier than that. My whole, my whole life has been a journey. You know, my, my, my mother’s life is a journey. It just kind of how you progress and the interactions you have.
But then, so I graduated from Graham high that was like a rental and sentence, but I graduated from gram high and in order to find my adoptive family, this was my. I I only applied to UNC Charlotte now had I have not gotten in I don’t know what would have happened. I knew I needed to get out of Alameda [00:20:00] county.
I knew that much, but I didn’t apply to any other college. And I got into UNC Charlotte. When I came to UNC Charlotte in 1988, it was 12% black. I came into a Utah program, which was a university of transitions opportunities program. It was two professors and they’re they wanted to bring in minority students so they can get acclimated to college.
And I’m glad that they did that because had he not have done that, I probably would even be more lost than I was, but I was, you know, some of the things that were taught there. So I graduated from UNC, Charlotte, UNC, Charlotte, I think, is coming up on their 65th, 75th anniversary. So it’s been around that long.
Well, yeah. And so what they did is they interviewed some. Alumni. And so I actually. Have an interview in the alumni library and then I literally cats. Yeah, exactly. Well, 30 years, 33 or 35 years. But then they actually interviewed for the 75th anniversary. So they’re going to publish a book and then I’m going to [00:21:00] be in that as well.
That’s cool. I’m really happy about that. And that’s why I ended up settling in Mecklenburg county. I never, I didn’t go home until I didn’t go back to Alamance county till 2008, 2009. You’ve
Chris Gazdik: had a lot of travels give us a real quick, cause I want to get to some of the things we’re going to talk about.
What’s in the book.
Melissa Enoch: What do we got? So it’s an interesting title. Yeah. You asked me what I was interested in. I like rap music. I been inundated with rap music. I’m actually older than rap music. So I’m 50 years old
Chris Gazdik: and I like the current stuff. I mean, I go back to snack dog and Dre and those types of things in the eighties was much better.
I’ll go back and stuff now
Melissa Enoch: further than that. So what’s funny is. I finished the book in December of 2021. And it was always Jay Z. He has a song. I got 99 problems, but being a beep isn’t one of them. And I didn’t look at the lyrics again. Until after I had published the book and I can’t make this up.
One of his lyrics, it says [00:22:00] the year was 1994. That was the exact year that I started in the field of substance use. And I didn’t know that I didn’t put it together. So now if anybody’s listening that knows Jay Z or know someone who knows him, I need to borrow the first seven seconds of that song so that I can, when I, when I go to.
And lead into the book. I need that the year was 1994 because it starts to journey in the field. And when, what happened at detox, when I worked there, the Mecklenburg county substance abuse services center, we would do social histories, which I later learned is a social work term and not a psychology term.
Right. And so we would do social histories and it was like, I would sit down and talk to people. And have conversations about, you know, how they ended up with their drug use, drug use and alcohol use and things like that. And at that time, I liked to tell people my clients or people that, you know, sharing with, I was a little more saved as a Christian [00:23:00] then than I say, I am now, because back then it was like, you know, I was seeing the same thing over and over again.
People were coming in the facility over and over and over again. And I asked, I talked to God and I said, well, God, what is happening? What am I seeing? And so he began to give me information. He was like, well, this is what is happening. There’s a progression. There’s actually a scripture in the Bible that says that the spirit goes out and it seeks and it returns back seven times stronger.
And so that seeking in the seven times stronger, I began to list the different issues that people were present when they were coming into say the detoxification facility. It was further solidified. When I began to work at Mecklenburg county work release, the restitution center, people were coming in because of the crimes they committed.
And a lot of times they would make a lot of excuses and I was a little more critical back then. I wasn’t like a good therapist, like wanting to listen. Please tell me your issues. Let me help you with your problems. I was like, dude, you got [00:24:00] $200,000 worth you owe in. Child’s a smart smack, smack, smack. Have you ever thought about not using they’re real
Chris Gazdik: quick and for a reason, right?
I know. Right? It’s cause it is a different, there’s a different flavor there. And so what’s interesting. And what we’ll get to this here shortly you’ve done a lot of substance abuse treatment. That was primary. And it’s funny because we started out, I started out the exact same way. I actually, right when I finished my undergrad, I did a DUI education course.
It was the 18 hour course. Get your driver’s license back. That’s that was my big start in the field, which is where I got a lot of my substance abuse knowledge starting from. And so you’ve done a lot of mandated therapy. We’re going to do a segment here in a little bit about, you know, voluntary versus mandated treatment and how to get the most out of that.
And so there is a very different flavor and you were just talking about it. So therapists that might be listening to show when she didn’t understand. Would you agree, Melissa? There’s, there’s, there’s, it’s a different, [00:25:00] particularly the old school substance abuse. You have to crack through the denial. You have to, you know, get into somebody’s space to deal with them looking at addiction that might very well be a part of their life, as opposed to some of the other things that we might do in mental health side of things.
But it’s it’s, I’m just trying to make the distinction that that’s exactly what you’re describing. Does that
Melissa Enoch: make sense? You know, even when I w so when I worked at Mecklenburg county work release, you know, that was mandated, you know, the detoxification facility, technically, it wasn’t mandated because they walked in detox.
Wasn’t here, you know, they walked in and then when I went into private practice and I used to didn’t call my, my, my facility private practice. It wasn’t until of late that I identified it as such. It was just, I opened a facility to do education enrichment and enlightenment. It just so happened that I was working with clients.
And I realized later that, oh, I’m in private practice and I’ve been in private practice for 18 years. So I didn’t even, I don’t, I’m [00:26:00] not a good term person. Cause it, it puts you in a box. And I work in most of the clients that I have don’t work in, out in boxes, you know? So I think that’s, that’s where we meet at right.
You know, we’re not in boxes. Don’t, don’t put a label on me. Don’t, don’t identify these things, but I feel like, you know, even with save the DWI services tech, that’s a mandate, you know, you want to get your license, man. You know, if you’re on probation, you want to get, you know, you wanna get off probation. I began to realize that.
Like with employee assistance, technically that’s a mandate, you know, you you’re, you, something is happening in your life and if you don’t take care of it, If
Chris Gazdik: there’s a big distinction there. I want to lay out when, when we talk about that is, is, there are sometimes I do mandated, you got popped with a drug screen or something happened at work where you’ve broken a law or a rule there.
And they say, if you want your job come to the AP services, [00:27:00] but employee assistance programs, we’ve talked about on the show a lot, it’s there for you as a part of your company to engage a therapy process. That is, is totally voluntary. It’s your own decision, it’s your own life, you know, and so I know that stuff is very confusing for
Melissa Enoch: people and I, and I, but I hope.
You know, but most of the times it’s said, because something’s going on. Absolutely. Like we all have a little bit of a mandate to deal with ourselves. So loosely term, a mandate, if something is going on, that’s mandated, you know, the dysfunction, the dysfunction is happening in your life. So that mandates you to deviate that dysfunction, you know?
And I mean, I think, I think that’s where a lot of people, I don’t need therapy. I don’t need to go see somebody to talk about blah, blah, blah, mentality out there. Let your family off the hook, let your family be your family. Let your mothers be your mothers, that your sisters be your sisters, you know, the person that you’re turning to, they’re going to be biased, whether it’s.[00:28:00]
You know, they’re gonna, they’re gonna align with you at whatever you bring to them. Take, you know, take the bias out of it and go to a professional person and say that, you know, what, what you’re doing. Does it make any sense because you know, your mom, my mother was my biggest supporter. My biggest, co-signer probably my, my biggest enabler.
Right. You know, she absolutely, you know, she helped me through a lot of things. I could call her and talk to her about anything. And she taught me off the ledge, you know, and I don’t know if it was fair to her to put her in some of the spots I put her in, but she was my mother. She had adopted me. She took ownership of me and she, she really took that job seriously to the day she died.
Chris Gazdik: Well, you know, it’s a really good point. And it’s something that I’ve begun to, to see change a lot in our culture and our society. So what I hear you saying is people do have the idea a lot. I don’t need therapy. I don’t want to deal with this. [00:29:00] It’s so listen to this definition I came up with and I’ll ask you to back me up, or kind of think of your own thing.
What is therapy? Right. And I said, this last week on a show, we took a much deeper dive, but I look at it as a dynamic relationship developed between two people with an artificial atmosphere and an artificial protection that allows people to experiment with new emotional patterns. That’s what I came up with.
Right. And, and, and, and you’re pointing out adding to that. Like, you, you cannot replicate that with people in your life to look at your insecurities, your emotions, the diagnoses that might be there, the, the life patterns, the life experiences that you’ve had, because they’re in them, they’re more than likely.
They’re a part of that. And part of what happens is, you know, so how do you get the most out of therapies? The question we’re going at today, can, can you set yourself in a frame of mind where you can tap into the objectively. That happens in a therapy relationship.
Melissa Enoch: [00:30:00] And I like that word better because I guess the opposite would be subjectivities gives you if you have a family member they’re aligned with you in a dynamic, that’s a family dynamic.
Yeah. You know, versus a professional dynamic, very different, you know, and it’s an in and I guess the term would be inmeshment, you know, you’re in meshed in that because they’re, they’re aligned with you. They’re hooked to you. They’re connected to you. You, you, you rise. You fall to your family. It’s not a bad thing.
It’s not a man can be there. We can break some of those patterns and cyclical things that you see that, that a family relationship. It’s not going to be able to do
Chris Gazdik: a real quick story to demonstrate the power of that. I, I I remember being a younger man and catching Oprah Winfrey when she was doing her show and she had a guy on there.
It was a NFL football player for the jets wide receiver. I forget his name, but they were talking about sexual abuse and you know, how Oprah does. I mean, she’s, she’s great interviewer. She goes in and just ask these questions and she’s pretty [00:31:00] direct, pretty genuine and way she goes about. And so they’re talking about his experiences what he went through, his offender, this type of thing.
And she gets to a part in the interview. She looks at this guy and she’s like, so what happened with your family? Like when you, when you told your mom, you and your family, this, you know, how did, how did they receive this and whatever. And he looked at her and he’s just like, well I, I didn’t, she’s like you, you didn’t, you didn’t talk to your mom about this.
No, no, we’ve, we’ve never really discussed that whole. She’s like, so the, your mom, who’s sitting in the audience, you know, five rows deep, right there is
Melissa Enoch: you never just caught her off guard
Chris Gazdik: and you always on national talking about this stuff. And I can’t tell you it, you know, to, to understand how to get the most out of therapy, realize it is easier.
It’s safe. To be genuine and open. I’ve had people tell me things. And it’s such a [00:32:00] humbling honor to talk with people that, where they’re sharing things. They have never shared with anyone to get,
Melissa Enoch: you know, most I’ve never told anybody that and I’m thinking, and then immediately I tell them, you know what? I appreciate you for trust and trusting me with that information now, what do we do with her?
Now we move, you know, these one of the 99 problems. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Back to the title. Yeah. So let’s move forward here a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. Hold it up there. You can see that on YouTube love. And,
Melissa Enoch: and this is actually a picture that I took. You asked me like what I like to do. I like to take pictures. I like stories.
Yeah. I like love. I especially love, love stories. Oh,
Chris Gazdik: okay. Oh man. Well, you’re a woman, I guess you get the lifetime
Melissa Enoch: I always tell people. So we go, there’s a. This is kind of random, but there’s [00:33:00] a, it’s on the corner of North Carolina and South Carolina. It’s called a pretty place. Never heard of it. And it’s on the side of a mountain. You have to drive. It’s like a, probably like an hour and a half from here. Okay. All right here.
So, you know I found it on Tik TOK. That’s random, but it’s. And, and I go because the best sunrise, when the spring Equinox, March 20th and last year we tried to go and we got there late, so the sun had already risen, but this year we got up there and it was like six 30 in the morning. It was cold as all get out.
But we actually, the, the sun know what time the sun rises at 7 21. So we were actually on the side of the mountain and I liked to take those pictures and they’re probably going to end up using that as a cover or base, or maybe even a poem. And I counted as you know Islam has a maca, but I don’t think Christians, we don’t have a place to go to like a holy place.
So I’ve created that as a holy place that I now go to. Cool. But I rent my running joke is you know, they, they charge [00:34:00] $1,800 to get married there, but it’s like 20. So like, sometimes my clients will tell me, I don’t know if you do family, but sometimes my clients will tell me, like, they’re dating somebody.
I’ve been dating them for like eight years or so. I’m like, I’ll marry you on the face of this mountain, but you only got 20 minutes. So you got to go ahead with the I do’s. I dunno. Where are you going to do your reception at, but I’ll marry you up there and then I’ll do therapy with you. Three for the man and three for the woman they get married.
Yeah, seriously. Oh, that’s my new package. That’s that’ll come out in the fall of 20, 22. I’m just joking. I don’t know when that’s going to come. I don’t know when, but I am beautiful. I am able to marry I am now able to marry people. So
Chris Gazdik: you’ve got a pastor, whatever certificate as it is or whatnot.
Melissa Enoch: Yeah.
Mail-order, don’t tell my pastor, oh my God. He might be listening, but I just did that. It was, it was another thing of a pandemic. So the book was was was was a UN project of the pandemic. Me getting a mail order to be able to marry people. Cause I don’t, I never liked to have to tell anybody.
No, that’s my, my whole thing. Since I’ve been in the [00:35:00] field, if you ask me something, I want to be able to provide that as a service. Okay. So, you know, and I, and I want to break down barriers because a lot of times with, you know, people come in therapy. So if you tell me you’ve been dating this person forever, how long?
And I’m like, what’s your, what’s your, what’s the issue? Oh, well she, you know, she wants this kind of a wedding. I’m like, you know what? I got the place for you now. And then they were like, well, you know, who’s going to marry us. Okay. I can do that now. You know? Well, what if we, you know, what, if our values don’t align, I’m still a therapist.
So guess what? Now I can do a package. You know? So if any other therapist has any other marketing ideas, there goes one.
Chris Gazdik: This is a woman with, with lots of activities, some of the meat today to see, and really. Answering the question, how do we really get the most out of a therapy experience? Right. So I had the advantage of, of coming to a list and whatnot.
We can go through them and as we go through them, whatever kind of comes up in your mind, w w w this is where we can get a lot of good back and forth on [00:36:00] to really, to really dig into that, but off the get. And you’ve actually already said a couple of things, actually. So it’s been already a couple of teaching moments that you’ve provided, which is awesome.
If you, what comes to your mind first, really? You know, when, when you think, how do we get the most out of therapy? If I’m a client sitting
Melissa Enoch: with. You know, come present with there’s something that’s, you know, going to happen. There’s going to be an experience or an adventure. If you will journey a journey, you know, when you come into it, I’m not really thinking about the negative aspects of therapy, like, cause some people believe it’s a weaker moment when you have to actually go outside
Chris Gazdik: of yourself, coming a little bit more old school.
Well,
Melissa Enoch: yeah, but you know, it’s still there. I mean, how many boomers are there really? Like, I mean, baby boomers are there, how many gen X are there? You know, the, you know, I think gen X is the last, the, the
Chris Gazdik: diagnosis. I gotta say it. I love to change that [00:37:00] word weakness into courageousness. Well, it is a courageous reality to do.
People do when they come to
Melissa Enoch: us. Really? I think so one part of the timeline, probably with some of the aspects of the book, as you look at, you know, things like baby boomers, what’s the age group, you know, gen X, the last age of the gen X group is 1979. I believe 1986 was when ADHD, the guy whatever his name was on the scene.
Well, you know, when the diagnosis happened, But, you know, like one of the memes that I read is you know, the young ladies who always got is, you know, is good at what she does in school, in elementary, but it’s very talkative more than likely that was the diagnosis of attention. You know, add or ADHD for, you know, a young woman.
Right. You know, so you got a whole group of people who is, you know, therapy, you know, therapy for, you know, boomers or therapy for gen X was going outside and more in the yard or doing something with your [00:38:00] hands, or, you know, not really tapping into that. Then you have the millennials who are the children of the boomers or the, even the children of the gen X.
And they’re looking at them and going, look at what you allowed to happen in your age bracket. We’re going to do the exact opposite of it. So we’re going to do a lot of therapy or a lot of things we’re going to look into. And then you have the age group after that. And, you know,
Chris Gazdik: You know, they’ve taught us how to address things.
And so that the marriage divorce rate Craig talked about this on the show has been about 50, 55% for a long time. They brought it down. Did you know that the millennial population has brought the divorce rate down to about 45%?
Melissa Enoch: That’s amazing 45. And that means they began to communicate more
Chris Gazdik: because they, they feel something kind of clipping off.
They feel something kind of going on and they’ll come into a therapy experience. Neil’s got the mic. That means, I still think when
Neil Robinson: we’re talking about that, the one, the one stat is the fact that I think there’s actually less marriages [00:39:00] too, right? Yeah. You get a lot more people marrying for the right reasons instead of marrying because they feel they have to, or Marion because you know, my parents got married because my mom got pregnant right now.
Looking back, they should never have got married. And I think millennials are taking that time to, what do I want that wait a little bit longer. And so when they find someone it’s more of a. This is really what I want. And so I think that’s a big shift in the
Melissa Enoch: dynamics is they are waiting longer well there.
So that means they’re elite. They’re aligning their values, you know, and that’s the other, you know, going into therapy, you know, you get to begin to, you get to talk to a professional person and laying your values. You know, the value of loyalty may actually be a harmful value. Especially if you’re being loyal to someone who’s hurting you abusing you, mistreating you, not listening to you, not communicating with you, you know, when you’re going, you know, but if you’re not in therapy, then you’re going to normalize the [00:40:00] things that are happening to you.
Whereas if you go into therapy, a person will say, well, you think that’s normal. You think that’s fair. You think that’s the thing that you need to be experienced? You know, so I think getting, you know, just going past the shame of talking to, having to talk to a professional, I think the better, the better term now is, you know, let’s normalize mental health, like going to the doctor until you talk to people who don’t go to doctors, but then there’s another, that’s a whole nother,
Chris Gazdik: that’s the level I tend to be on that, but yeah, no, you’re right.
I mean, it is sort of be it starting to be much more ingrained in the healthcare reality. Like we all kind of know it much better now that yeah. We’re just doing something for ourselves in mental health, taking care of even preventative measure. You’ll laugh. I’ve actually get to do premarital counseling.
A little bit more than I never got to do that before and it’s needed.
Melissa Enoch: I mean, [00:41:00] absolutely. Are you sure that I frequently said I would marry and people, but I’m like, but also I flip it and Lee said, I want to be able to counsel with you
Chris Gazdik: actual true premarital counseling sessions and individual. Yeah, we, we, we got like, you know, three minutes with a counselor and whatnot that, you know, didn’t, didn’t really do much, much of any counseling for us when we got married and, you know, what’d you send me what?
You just popped something, what, what are you doing? He sent me a text, like it’s just the
Neil Robinson: statistics, the census from 2021. It’s just, it’s interesting dynamic. When you look at the shift in relationships, the shift in ages, the shift in marriages versus single households versus it’s just kind of an interest in demographic shift.
So I just wanted to kind of give you that you don’t have to look at it now. I just, before I forgot I sent it to you too. So
Melissa Enoch: you have, I appreciate it, but you know, you here. I and I’m not saying that. To be dissed. I have post-traumatic stress disorder from my time [00:42:00] spent working at the Mecklenburg county work release the restitution center because I learned the definition of what a cousin was and all the cousins aren’t cousins, what I learned cause the guys, but like make these, these visitor lists and they would have cousins on it.
And for me from Alamance county, I am literally, I have gone back. My, my mother’s parent lineage is nine, nine. Descendants long fathers is about yay long. So I’m literally cousins who, a lot of people, these ideas. And so these guys are running to my office and mad with me because again, I’m on the job and I’m, and I’m calling all of the cousins and I’m thinking in my mind right now, I’m like, wow, their cousins are awfully supportive of them while they’re incarcerated only to find out, you know, they’re not adore cousins, right side,
Chris Gazdik: people are like, where did this?
Melissa Enoch: So then they’re mad. They’re angry at me because I blew up their [00:43:00] spot because I tell all the women, I would tell the women, this is what time the visiting hours are, or this is when you can see him, or this is when he can get to get out. And they’re like, what are you done? I’m like, and then they would get mad.
And I was like, what are you getting mad for? You should’ve communicated with me. What it was you’re doing. I didn’t know that I was messing you up, but also you, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re just lying to these ladies. And if I am your therapist, and this is our relationship, and I’m supposed to be here to help you with your issues.
Am I not helping you say that part? Because I can’t co-sign, you know, that’s the other thing in therapy, don’t ask your therapist to co-sign was it’s not good behavior because I’m not going to be as upfront and honest with you. Is that the trigger, you know, is this a trigger? Is this your challenges? You know, now these they’re going to be areas that you’re going to be willing.
You know, that’s where the change stages of change come in. They’re [00:44:00] going to be areas that you’re going to be willing to. Yep. I’m wearing I’m ready to work. I’m ready to do something. I’m ready to make a plan. I’m really take action. I, as a therapist, going to have to realize that there are going to be areas that you’re not going to be comfortable with dealing with yet.
Well,
Chris Gazdik: you know, it’s funny, Melissa, because I want to get to this list on, you know, how to get the most out of therapy. And it’s interesting though, because I think that we’ve had a different flavor on the mandated treatment or the substance abuse treatment, which is very different. A lot of times they’re coming kind of their spouse kind of kicked him into therapy or, you know, some sort of big event happened her life.
And there, you know, I don’t know if you’re familiar with motivational interview. Strategies, you know, they’re, they’re really pre contemplated. They’re not sure about this. There’s a lot of a dance, which is where I learned a lot of my early rapport skills, you know, dealing with pure substance abuse related field, because a lot of the thoughts I think I have about it [00:45:00] comes from managed care.
You know, we’re really people are coming because they want to address things in their life. They want to address things that they’re, that they’re dealing with, you know? And, and so it’ll be interesting to hear your thoughts about your you’re more ingrained in, in what you’ve been talking about, which is, which is very different in work release center or, or a mandated EAP or something along those lines.
So I just wanted to point out that those, those differences. So, so first thing I kind of came up with is make sure you have a good match. I think sometimes people come into a therapy related. And you think about what my definition was a dynamic relationship between two people in an artificial environment creates trust and an ability to deal with things in a vulnerable way, right.
In a real way, in a genuine way. Well, you might go into a therapy office and just not vibe with this person.
Melissa Enoch: Yes. But. Hm. What if they’re, [00:46:00] what if they’re challenging you in an area you need to be challenged? Well, then you’d say, well, you know what, I’m vibe with this person. Cause you know what I
Chris Gazdik: mean? You certainly avoidance and whatnot, but avoidance, th there can be a lot of things.
There can be, you know, confirmation bias. There can be, you know, different factors that kind of go in, you know, transference issues that we work with in therapy. So there, there is that, but I’m suggesting that in the beginning of meeting with somebody, particularly from a non substance use field where you’re not really in denial, you’re really wanting to get something out of this, and you’re not going to be confronted a whole lot on the first therapy session.
Right. Substance abuse. You very well might sort of right. Particularly in the mandated realm because you have a time limited space as well. Then, like I said, there’s lots of differences. I don’t know about you, but when I’m, when I’m doing those types of services, it is a very different. Setup which, which, which so, [00:47:00] because you really it’s, it is.
Okay. I want to say, to say I’m uncomfortable in this circumstance and I want to try another therapist. I want
Melissa Enoch: fair, right? Yeah. So, and what I, so here’s my mandate. It is time sensitive, right? It’s very different. So you, you know, so you might get. And I, then I realized, so it took me a minute to, to adjust when I began to see people individually versus say work and DWI services groups doing groups, because I know I have eight sessions to cover what I’m required to cover for the state of North Carolina, what I’m required to do, you know?
But then when I realized it took some adjustment and I’ve made it, so with like employee assistance, you know, you get six sessions, you know, and then, you know, so now you gotta go back to your training. I’m not going to open the door that I can’t close. So we have six sessions. What is it that we can do in these six sessions?[00:48:00]
You know, and that’s where my, my, okay back. Have you, have you
Chris Gazdik: done much, Melissa too, with the longer-term ensure, you know, using
Melissa Enoch: that? I have a few people that has been, I’ve had a few people that I kept a year. Yeah. You know, and the timeline was helpful because we were able, because this is the timeline I do at the time of assessing.
A, because I have attention issues and sometimes people just dump a whole lot of information. And my, my I’m a fixer, so my brain to go let me, let me try to get it together. So I created, so when the intervention of the timeline that is 28, almost 30 years of a journey of writing, it
Chris Gazdik: is just for the audio version of the show.
You’re talking about the,
Melissa Enoch: your book, my book in the book. It, so it starts off with the year you were born. So I’m taking into consideration, you know, you might be a boomer or millennial or the age, you know? And so there’s a certain amount of information that’s given just from the year you were born.[00:49:00]
And so then I can think to my mind. So in my reading about like say not to be derogatory, but you know, millennials want to be rich instantly. And that might not be a, might not be reasonable that might not, you know, that might not be realistic and a smart goal, you know? So then I can content, I can ask them, is this value holding true for you?
So then the other part of the book with the timeline is now we have the year you were born the ABCs of the timeline, or what are, you know, like Let me slow my mind down because it is solidified at work release. So if somebody says alcohol is their issue, I would listen for them to repeat alcohol three times in three different segments, three different segments, because the way that the timeline works is 7 14, 21 to 70.
So it’s in seven year increments that doesn’t have the fall on the exact seven, but it’s in seven year increments. So there’s a beginning, a middle and an end. So let’s say that alcohol, they found in the [00:50:00] middle of that increment. I began to listen for that same pattern, same timeframe. And once I heard the third time, the third instance, then I say, have you considered this?
And then they can say yes or no. And so this is, this happened. The first day. Right. And then, so yeah, part of the assessment. So I’ll do ABCs. I’ll do all the way to Z. So I’ll go V value. I’ll go E employment, I’ll go a alcohol D drugs D divorce. They’ll give me in their conversation when they dump, they’ll give me what they’ll create the formula or the grid.
Right. So, so here’s what we’re looking at. And then once I develop, once I hear a pattern and it has to be a repeated pattern and normally what I do now, I’m thinking about. It’s when it’s prominent, right? When they say that this is a prominent thing that they keep repeating, then that’ll be the major [00:51:00] issue that obviously, same thing with
Chris Gazdik: like anxiety.
I was anxious here and I was anxious there, but likely depressed in this moment. And
Melissa Enoch: it would be anxiety. The Dean would be depression. The B the B would be the behavior.
Chris Gazdik: And again, for the listening on it, he’s like, that’s a natural process. That’s going on. Like we’re really working for you in the process.
And all you’re doing is kind of going through the process of what you’re thinking about and stuff. And that’s what therapy works so well is to kind of frame that up and identify like, you never knew it was anxiety, but we’re hearing that. And we can suggest that, or, you know, be open again. That word comes out, objective about that and, and really identify and then work.
Melissa Enoch: So that’s why I wrote the book because I wasn’t covering enough ground. So I was told, so I, so I realized that in the, and this is, you asked me about my interests I’m assemble person. So my name means Melissa. My name is Melissa, and it means B. When you think about the concept of a bee, the bee [00:52:00] goes about and collects the pollen and drops it in the next, in the next flower, so that that flower can grow.
So I’ve been a therapist for a long time. I am just planting the pollen. So in an another therapist, so the person can take this. I have an outline. And then when they go sit down with a therapist, I’ve already covered a good ground for them. So they coming to the assessment
Chris Gazdik: with, I noticed in checking out, there’s a lot of questions to answer and things to think about blanks, to fill in the workbook.
Really isn’t it.
Melissa Enoch: And then you could go to your therapist, say, you know what? You know, here’s, here’s what I came up for me. This came up for me. This is what I saw. I w I am interested in working on this as an issue to get my job
Chris Gazdik: easier, Melissa.
Melissa Enoch: I appreciate it. I realize I embraced because a bee doesn’t know it can, it can fly a B is not supposed to fly because it’s wings are not supposed to hold its body.
So that’s just really random facts about, about, about the bodily random, [00:53:00] definitely. And so my name is, so I had to decide as a therapist that what do I do with. I believe that I, people talk to me, people give me information, people share, they, they entrust me with their information and they, you know, I I’m here open.
I mean, you can literally tell me anything and I won’t react to powerful reality and you know, I won’t be like what now. And then when I do what I’ll tell you, I’m about to do or what I started, I’m like, like, and so, and I mean, it could be like the depths of things. It can be like the worst thing. And, and, and I make a practice because of the.
My experience and my background, I make a practice now that I read. I mean, I like, I love reading. My obsession is rap music and it’s like it doesn’t matter. And I look, I look at a lot of hoarders now at this point, there’s the show hoarders. And even with that, you know, most of what those, the individuals on hoarders is [00:54:00] there was a trauma redefining the word trauma.
There was something that happened in their life that caused them to hold on to a better memory. And I’m just trying to help people to sift all of that out. The, the, the bottom line is, and this is another symbol. The maple tree roots run deep. And if you don’t extract it, it can actually produce another tree miles away.
So within individuals, if you’re able to dig out this information, And get it out and upfront, it doesn’t have an opportunity. The negative aspects of it doesn’t have an opportunity to sprout again. And that is that, is that true butter maple tree. Yes. And, and, and, and visually speaking. So the home that I live in now, there was a maple tree.
When I grew up, it was huge. The leaves would fall off in the fall, you know Neil you’re learning that I’m a bit of a Daredevil And when you get older, some of that goes away cause like your logic kicks in and he’s like, you’re going to die. But I [00:55:00] used to take, you know, we used to be in a swing and used to jump off and fall, you know, fly off the swing into the leaves.
Well, the maple tree died in my yard. Right. And it was a huge that like the base of it was like so many feet wide and the dye disintegrated like down to the ground. Well, no, I can’t make this up. There’s a route that runs underneath my storage building and there’s a whole nother maple tree on the other side of it and my neighbor’s yard.
And you can literally follow the route and see where it comes in and way back in earlier in the, in my years when the timeline first. Thought about or the vision was given? I used to think I worked with some people that were in construction, you know, like excavating and they tell you that the height of their building is his house as far that you have to go almost triple down into the ground in order for that foundation to be, to be solid.
But if you go down there and, and you, you don’t find, you know, remove the boulders, then it’s going to create cracks in your [00:56:00] foundation and it’s going to basically destroy it. And so when you like metaphors and I do, because in the field I’ve watched so many people relapse returned to use. Even if, you know, even behaviors had, does behaviors began
Chris Gazdik: to patterns and
Melissa Enoch: emotional over and over and over again.
And it destroys. And, and, and, and I just made a point that I didn’t want to see that anymore. I’ve lost, I lost colleagues to relapse, to suicide, to death sickness. I mean, they sell you like with fibromyalgia, the trauma that you experienced in your childhood is as strong as the fibromyalgia will be. And if you can begin to, you know, when you’re stressed, it’s going to hurt more.
I mean, everything is so connected. So, you know, the 99 problems you know, identifying what those are because they’re damaging. And I think leading in for may is mental health month. The sticky. There’s the shame it’s got a [00:57:00] fall because it’s hurting a
Chris Gazdik: lot better with that. Look, I think we kind of want to do a part one and part two.
I don’t think we’re going to be able to do that. Or D w I know we’re not going to, so let me, let me read down through this list that I think will be helpful to people. See what it does in your mind, Melissa. And then boy, I really wanted to spend a little bit more time on mandated versus non-mandated mandated therapy, but yeah.
See if we can get to it though, so see what your brain does with this. So like I said, make sure it’s a good match, you know, in the beginning. And then I, I of was thinking through, you know, again, what, how do we get the most out of therapy, right? Ask questions from your therapist, designed to learn. I think people are afraid to ask questions.
So this is asking questions to learn about yourself, asking questions, to learn about your patterns, asking questions, to learn about your diagnosis. That’s a big thing in the mental. World and to substance abuse to learn what is addiction? Like? I spend a lot of time on that. Again, I’m just going to shoot through this quick, see what your brain does with it, Melissa.
Next I kind [00:58:00] of came up with, if you don’t understand something, then stop the process. Like do not go further. When you hear something, a concept like th th th that doesn’t make sense to you. Like projection, your therapist might bring up projection and explain it. I want you to know to get out of the therapy, what you need to like stop the process and stay right there until you really get the concept it’s, it’s important.
And you’re empowered to do that in your therapy session is the way I look at it. So stop the process until you at least have a grasp. And then, but no, also it’ll come up again, you know, through your course of therapy with a person, but you’re empowered in this thing. Be active in the moment I. Right. So don’t know what to say.
That’s fine. Just, you know, like you kind of started us off today and you just bring up what your thoughts are, you know, let, let, let the, let the therapist know. And then we work with that stuck and actually just letting know what your thoughts are prevents being stuck in any kind of therapy process or, or moment [00:59:00] I came up with next understanding that it’s a collaborative effort.
This is not like your therapist working at you. This is
Melissa Enoch: them. Now you say, amen. Yeah. It’s not me versus them back and forth back. This is we’re here to
Chris Gazdik: help. I say every day that I do a recording show, let’s figure this out together for a reason. And I’ve started to talk about that. It’s naturally come up, but you know, you get what you put into it.
Like this is, this is a back and forth kind of thing. You know, that, that if you really understand, it’s collaborative, Just like a doctor. They can’t really help you that well, if you’re not giving them your symptoms and giving them what you’re experiencing. So you’re working with us
Melissa Enoch: and do some of the work in between the sessions practice
Chris Gazdik: that comes up in
Melissa Enoch: your mind, do some of the work, you know, whether it be journaling, reading the thinking, meditating,
Chris Gazdik: what we’re talking about, and then maybe be prepared when you kind of come back
Melissa Enoch: and say, excellent.
Cause I mean, cause this is, [01:00:00] I want to, I don’t want to use the word cause people have an aversion to that, to, to the idea of work. So what’s another word to
Chris Gazdik: be used therapy work versus something
Melissa Enoch: else that you’re doing because you’re insuring, you’re exploring. Matter of fact,
Chris Gazdik: I have a metaphor that I’ll give to you that I really feel like reframes that intimidating reality.
And I’m slow on the uptake. This is actually fairly new in my career, but I hope you’re still tuned in with us because this is huge. I feel like. People were afraid to do the work, to dig deep because of the concepts. Right. Going down to that freaking route that you said with the want to say Mulberry Bush, the maple tree, right.
Maple, you know, I don’t think you have to do that, Melissa. You don’t have to do that. Here’s the deal. You have insecurities and things that are in you. And we suppress them. We compress them, we compartmentalize them. We do. And it occurred to me really just a couple of years ago, a [01:01:00] few years ago, maybe that if you prevent yourself from spending an income ratable amount of energy, to keep things down, pushed way down.
I mean, sometimes we can push them really deeply, even so much so that we don’t have memory about what happened to us like with psychological repression and trauma. So what I like to reframe is you don’t have to do that hardware. And what I mean is you have to spend less energy and just allow what’s there to rise because what’s important will come
Melissa Enoch: up, you know, thinking about construction, project management, you know, you don’t have, you have, there are segments to the PR the building of a building, there are segments to the creating a found as a business plan.
There’s plans that go into it. You know, you have plumbers and electricians and they don’t even come in until the end of the thing, you know, but you have the excavators. And so, you [01:02:00] know, just like, I would guess what I would consider myself to be an excavator therapist, you know, I’ll help dig, you know, help, you know, less clear that’s cleared away.
Now there’s another, you know, you’re a family, you know, you might do family. So let me turn you over to Christmas. Let’s do it, you know, he’ll help you to do a repair of the family when you’re done with them, right. That part of the project, then you turn them over to, you know, maybe employment or some other.
There are a, there are enough of us spread out that you are, I don’t have to feel like we need to care to load. Here’s a new metaphor
Chris Gazdik: that just pops to me. Cause that, cause I think that don’t get me wrong. I mean, I’d dig around the, you know, and do the excavation and we bring things up too. But I think there’s a, a really good reframe and allowing things up.
Think about it this way. If you’ve got a really deep lake, right. And you got to get to the depths where the, the emotional treasures are, that are creating the problems, if you will in life. Well, how about if we take the water out? [01:03:00]
Melissa Enoch: Okay, right. Or get a diver get, you can get a diamond. I mean, a diver weakness,
scuba
Chris Gazdik: diving, if you want.
I can’t swim. So that’s not a problem, but I think what we can do is drain the lake and then you have the ability to see and work with and manage and bring up, you know, what’s going on. So I, I just think it’s a little bit of a different perspective that, like I said, this is new for me. A few years new but now this got, I think he gives a lot of people, hope that, you know, we can, you know, we don’t have to go the deep excavation stuff.
Yeah. Yeah. What’d you what’d, you got, you gotta met.
Neil Robinson: Well, I was thinking, you said you don’t like to use the term work. And to me, when I’m thinking about where you guys are talking about, I would almost use the term investment. It’s your therapy investment. Because when you think about an investment, you’re putting in a couple of bucks here, a couple bucks there, and then as it grows, you end up getting more out of it.
Yeah,
Melissa Enoch: exactly. So on your investment relationships,
Neil Robinson: you now have the, you know, that foundation, or if you build in a house, you can’t really put the money down yet. I hear the [01:04:00] story about the guys who stick, build their house. They go in one weekend, do the foundation, you know, next time they do the frame. And once they get a little bit of money, it’s that slow investment, but what you get out of it.
Melissa Enoch: Yeah. And then the value and the pride that you have because you did that.
Chris Gazdik: We are crazy with the metaphors right now, by the way, we got a taxi in for a landing here, but. But I got another one that you just kinda brought up for me nail, as you’re talking about that. Do you know in countries? I don’t, I don’t know that it’s just really, yeah.
Well, I came across it in third world country when we were traveling, where are we? We’re in Mexico’s as co close mail. Yeah. We were calls, mail, Mexico, and I was talking to a local and you know, what they do is they get enough resources and they build their, their, just their, their kitchen. And that’s their house, no walls, whatever, and all this, but that’s what they got enough for.
And then you get a little bit more life resources and they buy some more material and they build another. You know, and then they get a little bit more later on resources and they add on a, a third room and they, and they build some walls inside the house, you know, and you just, you build, and I think, you know what, that’s what we’re doing.
A lot of [01:05:00] times in therapy, we’re building a process. So, okay.
Melissa Enoch: And I think that if we want people to get the most out of therapy, don’t try to eat it all at once. Good point really don’t need it all at once. And I think we get over because if you’re anything like me, you get overwhelmed, terrible, you know, you know, or, or, or you get so overwhelmed and give up or you get angry or you get frustrated.
So I hope that what they take from, you know, through, through both of our eyes and even, you know, we appreciate, you know, Neil and his heading into his awesome. I appreciate him also, you know, adding into it is, you know, a lot of times, you know, the Terrible. It is, or even pride. Those are really strong.
Humility’s tough. Those are really strong ones. And I hopefully people have taken away from our conversation. Again, I greatly appreciate you allowing me the opportunity a to be here, be to take this ride down here. This is, this is pretty early in the morning and see that, you know, to share that, you know, with therapy, we’re all on the same page with people and people [01:06:00] have
Chris Gazdik: there’s transcend race and transcends gender.
It transcends culture transit. It is, it is the human emotional experience. That we’re trying to figure out together. That’s an
Melissa Enoch: airbag plays apart. I say that again, you know, no, you don’t have to be the end all, you know, I don’t mind to come right back down,
you know? So, you know, part two, we don’t know when, but next time, next time that’s mine. That’s my new thing. You know, people are like, well, we didn’t get this done. We didn’t get that done next time.
Chris Gazdik: It would be fun to talk with you about, honestly, that could be a whole show. And I will keep that in mind. I think that, I think that I’d like to make that commitment because I think there’s a very big difference between, you know, mandatory treatment, which you have done a lot of in the substance abuse field, especially versus very much non-mandated more managed care.
Treatment that I’ve been engrossed in for, for 15 years. So that would be a, that’d be a pretty good show. I think I’ll try to work, work that in, but, but thank you for reaching out again and thank you [01:07:00] for showing up and coming to this. So thanks for having me. Yeah. Yeah. Guys, I hope that’s been helpful to think about before you go to a therapist, things to think about and be kind of geared into checkout.
I’ve got 99 problems, but being saved. Isn’t one of them. Yeah, she’s got through it. Therapist does thing up there too.
Melissa Enoch: I appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Chris Gazdik: Take care guys. Have a great week.