This month we had a diagnostic show, another about what people are currently thinking about, and then one that a lot of people can relate to.
We started with talking about the diagnosis of schizophrenia, what it really is, and surprisingly how common it is. We switched to talking about the possibility of us being in a mental health crisis. We wrapped up the month by discussing the reality of shame someone goes through when they have a medical condition.
What did you think about the shows? Did you agree with the panel on these topics?
Tune in to see the July Month in Review Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
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Episode #238 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: Hello, this is Through a Therapist’s Eyes. Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening to you. This is July the 27th, 2023. We are doing the month in review for July. We have Mr. Neil Robinson over there who comes out behind the curtains and says hello to us. How are you? Good. Once
Neil Robinson: a month, you get to see
Chris Gazdik: me once a month.
He’s on YouTube live. And then who else is here? Oh, no one we remember him from long ago. Mr. Adam k Clinger. Welcome back, man. Do you have a good month? Yes, been good month. Yeah. What’s the most interesting thing this month that has come across your brain? Most interesting random question for Adam Clanger.
I don’t know
Adam Cloninger: about most interesting thing, but I have been watching Shark Week and I’m gonna make a prediction. Oh yeah, yeah. There, there’s gonna be a mo and this is just a. Prediction [00:01:00] here. You’ve heard of cocaine bear? Oh yeah. There’s gonna be cocaine last time. Shark. I guarantee it. Oh, guarantee.
Neil Robinson: Have you seen the articles about that?
Where there’s, there’s actually,
Adam Cloninger: there’s actually episode on Shark Week there about cocaine shark. Yes. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: we have, I have no idea what we’re talking about here. Do we have cocaines in the water? Yeah. ’cause you know, like blood in the water
Adam Cloninger: now we have cocaine. No, well like, you know, drug dealers come and off car cart, so like now there’s speculation and people actually reported that there’s sharks that’s going to eat this and they’ve got a fix on it.
So now when they drops some water, they’re like, oh yeah. Well that’s, there’s a whole episode on it now. Yeah. On Shark Week. Yep.
Neil Robinson: How’s that? How’s that? Not your rabbit
Adam Cloninger: hole.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Right. That needs to be the we, the monthly game that we play in. Any regard before, before we go there. We have the book through a therapist’s eyes, re-Understanding Emotions and Becoming Your Best Self is going to be book two, the marriage book completed in hopefully exactly five days from now.
And then it [00:02:00] needs to be like, made right by editing and whatever. Dude, I gotta finish this over the weekend. The whole book. How, how close are you? I’m pretty close, but I’m nervous as hell. ’cause I need to, I really got some work to do this weekend though. Yep. So I am writing that, getting that together.
Listen, five stars on Apple iTunes. Reviews really help us guys. Contact it through a therapist eyes.com. Usually it’s a panel of therapist. That you get information about mental health and substance abuse, though, knowing it’s not the delivery of therapy services in any way, even though Victoria’s not here to tell me that part.
You got it right. The human emotional experience. Mr. Clinger, shall we endeavor to figure this stuff out together? Yes, let’s do it. Alright. What are we calling this? I said we call it rabbit hole. Every month we we have a, a game that we play with Adam, where he, he brings us this crazy topic. Last time was the, the, the best one, I think in a while on rage rooms.
Man, that was great. Don’t. I like the other one too. The
Adam Cloninger: tables was still good. Yeah, that’s [00:03:00] okay.
Chris Gazdik: I know you liked the rage room. It was, that was a good conversation.
Adam Cloninger: That was good thing. So just did you look up the, the article that I sent you? I think so, yes. So I sent, I sent him some information about rage rooms not being good.
Yes, you
Chris Gazdik: did. But also it was very poorly studied. So there, there’s nothing that, you know, we really know about that from, I can’t say
Adam Cloninger: I did a lot of research
Chris Gazdik: on it being psychological. Perspective. Perspective. Yeah. Yeah. But I still, I, I see your point more. I’ve thought more about it. It’s a. It’s probably a crazy
Neil Robinson: idea.
So you’re not gonna look for that new endeavor, the
Chris Gazdik: franchise. That would be fun. I, well, I could, I think if you do
Adam Cloninger: it correctly, especially if you did it with an actual licensed therapist, I think it’d be great.
Chris Gazdik: It’d be kind of a cool service, but it’s really actually more of a service.
Neil Robinson: You, you could make it one room, you can do like a ax throwing and all the other stuff with some of the
Chris Gazdik: other options.
Well, honestly, that’s kinda what I thought about. I’ve got some buddies that, that are interested in doing that kind of thing and they, they wanna, you know, do like entertainment based businesses and, you know, yeah, [00:04:00] those places, they got pool, they got bowling, they got darts, they got, you know, a rage room would be good in there.
Billiards and, yeah. So what are we talking about today? What is going down the rabbit hole with Adam this month? So
Adam Cloninger: we may want to do a viewer discretion thing ’cause this might be a little disturbing to people listening to this. And you’re being
Chris Gazdik: serious, right? I’m being serious, yes. Right. So I, I’m like, Neil, do we need to have like a rule or some sort of like qualifier that well can’t mean, you know, how are we supposed to deal with this administration?
It’s a podcast. You can say anything you wanna
Adam Cloninger: say. I guess so. You know, I thought about like, dang telling them in advance, but that’s kind of the unique thing and not telling you what it’s gonna be. So. Absolutely. So then you’re like, you know, you can’t tell us. Then you’re like, you know, it ruins making up as you go along.
So I like that it
Neil Robinson: ruins. So, so if you’re worried about it, just fast forward about, mm, five, 10 minutes. Yeah, that’d be, and just, just check it and see what’s going on. So I don’t, like I said, I don’t know what it is. I’m intrigued, but Yeah. If, if you’re worried ’cause you can’t trust Adam. Yeah. Just fast forward like 10 minutes.
Can’t trust Adam. [00:05:00]
Adam Cloninger: Just
Chris Gazdik: go there. So, so maybe help the listeners with a disclaimer for what graphic violence, graphic sexual, what, what we
Adam Cloninger: graphic violence has to do with
Chris Gazdik: well I’ll just go ahead and tell you Graphic violence disclaimer. Yeah. Fast forward 10 Yeah. Minutes if you wish. Yes. Alright.
What we got?
Adam Cloninger: Alright, so July 14th
Chris Gazdik: of this year. Now everyone’s listening closely like, yo, what up? But out I skipping this. So
Adam Cloninger: July 14th this year in a city in Oklahoma. Ring a bell yet. Okay. July 14th. July 14th In a city in Oklahoma. There was a couple that went into a pet store. Yeah, I know you’re thinking around.
Okay. They went in the pet store, asked to see the puppy in the cage. So assistant manager comes over, opens the cage, say Pet the puppy. They get done, put the puppy back in the cage. The couple goes along mouth about their business in the,
Chris Gazdik: they can’t be violent with the puppy dude. No, no. Oh,
Adam Cloninger: in the pet store.
Okay. They go along. They go along. See, you’re,
Chris Gazdik: you’re already getting worried. I’m, I’m, I [00:06:00] am. I am,
Adam Cloninger: I am. So they go along their business in the pet store, and then they leave. Okay. So a few minutes later it’s noticed that a parakeet is not moving. So they go and look, and the parakeet looks like its neck has been broken.
Beside the cage is a rabbit cage. The rabbit’s not moving. Oh, so the assistant, yeah. You’re already worried. So, The assistant manager c calls the manager and he comes, looks at the security footage. So apparently the couple, and this is, it’s really, really strange. The couple, the woman was doing, like being like a lookout, the guy walks over to parakeet cage, reaches in the cage and
Chris Gazdik: grabs his neck.
Oh, stop. Dang. Too much for the show.
Adam Cloninger: No, you’re fine. Okay. Okay. But that’s, that’s horrible. Ben reaches in the rabbit cage, grabs a hold of it and holds it until it [00:07:00] stops moving. What the heck? Then there’s still more, they also notice that a hamster and a Guinea pig are missing. They find the hamster in the parking lot smashed.
They figure somebody stomped on it. The Guinea pig never been found, so they were, they’ve. Release the, or given the footage to the surveillance footage to the police. They’re actually trying to identify these two people. So kind of my question to you is obviously there’s
Chris Gazdik: something, well, hold on. We gotta just debrief.
I mean, that’s Okay. So, so we’re over the trauma part of it Yeah, yeah. For the listening audience. I hope
Adam Cloninger: Yes. That’s over trauma
Chris Gazdik: part. Yeah. Geez, this is real. Yeah. This, how did you, first of all, I’m sitting here, like, how did he come across this, Neil?
Adam Cloninger: I don’t know. Holes, man. Rabbit
Chris Gazdik: holes. That is a serious rabbit hole.
Neil Robinson: We, we won’t ask about Adam’s search history. Google.
Chris Gazdik: Wow. Okay. So you’re, what did you type in to find this?
Adam Cloninger: I think [00:08:00] animal.
Animal cruelty or what animal? I don’t know. I can’t remember now. I can’t remember.
Chris Gazdik: Okay.
Adam Cloninger: I wasn’t looking for animal cruelty, so obviously there’s something wrong with both of them.
Golly. So, and I’m, I would think you’d probably need more information about these people to know this but
. If you had to speculate, what would you say? The diagnosis of not only the person, the man who did this, but of the person who was acting as a lookout for ’em, and what kind of trauma or conditions were they in before that may have led him to want to do something like this?
Chris Gazdik: This is kind of on the bizarre land. Yeah. And I feel like I need my panel here, like, yeah. Was this, is this a rabbit hole for Neil? Well, I mean, go ahead Neil. Well mic
Adam Cloninger: drop take. If you need to come back to it, that’s fine. I just wanna throw it out. You [00:09:00] go
Chris Gazdik: buddy. Go.
Neil Robinson: Well, I mean, one, you have an an easy early sign for serial killers.
There’s a commonality about, you know, animal cruelty. But then if it make it I Dahmer. Yeah. Dahmer is one of the many sociopath. Yeah. So, and but then you also have, so I could see from the, from the woman’s side, there’s one, the sense of excitement being the lookout. So depending on what’s going on, there’s this weird like, anticipation, excitement of like getting caught that danger to go with it.
And then you also just have that weird, you know, natural born killers, you know, kind of idea of, they’re just, it’s the thrill of it. It’s the, you know, any coffee cat, something even. Could be. Yeah. So it’s just one of those things where you have this guy who has this desire there thinking, let’s just go to pet store, take, do you know, we can do that?
And then there’s that excitement that builds up from there. But I mean, it really is just, it’s just twisted sick thought process of mentality. I mean, that’s, it
Adam Cloninger: is disturbing. You said, you mentioned the, the, the [00:10:00] copycat thing. I, I, there’s all kinds of articles about animal cruelty to dogs. That’s like probably the most common I saw.
I also saw horses and stuff like that. But yeah, I mean, you know, the, the, the thing,
Chris Gazdik: the, the only thing that comes to my mind, honestly, that I’m thinking about from the mental health standpoint is where you go Neil immediately to the, you know, the sociopathic, you know, behavior. And you, you can get really maybe more severe forms of, of.
Personality disorder that maybe even a narcissist or you know, it, it, a lot of times we’ll assess for animal cruelty that, that these things really happen. And so anybody that’s upset with us, I, I, I appreciate and we’re not gonna edit it out. I mean, it’s fine because this is real. I mean, you know, there is real human behavior that is, is is confusing to understand.
And so kids that feel powerless in their lives will get into pre antisocial [00:11:00] personality disorder behavior. And we look for that as a part of conduct disorder in adolescent diagnosing. And previous to that is oppositional defiance, which is a little bit low grade, but you know, you start getting, you know, pain delivered or death and dis dismember it to animals.
That’s, there’s something there that’s going on with the personality. Antisocial and sociopathic. The, the, the, the girlfriend, interestingly enough, I, I’m gonna suppose, might very well be highly codependent, right? So when somebody has this type of behavior, they’re in a quite possibly a domestically violent relationship or some sort of emotional abuse.
It means clearly very disturbed people. And so the person who’s the lookout is kind of like an alcoholic, will have sometimes a spouse who is very much engaging in alcoholic type drinking, sort of to join the, the, the [00:12:00] group, the behavior Yeah. To join in on, and thus by joining in on make Okay the behavior and that, that’s pretty severe forms of codependency.
Mm-hmm. So I don’t know. Yeah. That’s my, that’s my best assessment. But, you know, and it’s funny because. You can’t, I mean, obviously I can’t really diagnose that. I don’t. Right. I know more
Adam Cloninger: information, but I wanna,
Chris Gazdik: but somebody made an interesting point talking about that type of thing. You know, we, if we, if we had a camera that we watched somebody, that’s the best form of diagnosing.
You know, you, you think, oh, I can’t, how can I diagnose somebody that I’ve not met? Well, we diagnose somebody we haven’t even met by symptom sets that are observable. That are measurable. I need more to know what the heck’s going on with them, you know, than, than, than that. But that does give me certain amounts of information that you could go on a little bit.
Right?
Neil Robinson: I think with the camera you, like, you could, if you watch the person doing the act, you could see how they’re reacting to it. You know, is there they’re non-verbals, pain, pleasure, like, what’s, what’s the reaction to the whole thing? [00:13:00] You know? Did they do that with those and grab the other ones? ’cause they too noisy it.
Like there’s all these weird logic behind it, but it’s just, well,
Chris Gazdik: there’s a panic reality. You know, if I’m in an attack mode and I’m. Feel like I’m being attacked by an animal. Yep. I’m defensive. And I mean, obviously that’s not this case though. The, the
Neil Robinson: puppy was okay, right? Yes. Yeah.
Adam Cloninger: Okay. There’s just the four animals.
Well, the Guinea pig, we don’t know what happened to,
Neil Robinson: yeah, well we can probably assume
Adam Cloninger: they probably, no, I won’t. I, I won’t speculate. Yeah, no,
Chris Gazdik: I’ve had thoughts, but I don’t wanna say that. Listen, there really are disturbing things that are out there that people are doing. And, and we are drawn to a train wreck.
And I’ll tell you, you know, all these shows where people are murdered and, you know, the real, you know, cold case you know, you get into some of those details. There’s, there’s real things going on with domestic violence, antisocial behavior conduct disorder, and sociopathic stuff. Those things are real and people do get hurt.
So, you know, We need to be aware of what’s going on with that so that, you know, we, we, we really get to the bottom and, and, you know recover or [00:14:00] prevent domestic violence, you know, prevent sexual abuse. These, these things really are real. Well. I’m,
Adam Cloninger: I am glad that they have surveillance footage and have pictures of the people and they spent, I’m, I’m assuming they’re gonna figure out who it is.
Neil Robinson: Good. They’re older. Like, no, I’m a, well, I meant like young, young adults kind of thing,
Adam Cloninger: or I’m a guess, I’m a guess in her twenties.
Chris Gazdik: Did you actually
see
Adam Cloninger: the footage? Yeah. Well, no, they just showed pictures of them. Mm-hmm. So, you know, but I’m so fairly young.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. Yeah. I just was curious if it was like, like mid-teens where you kind of look at that.
I’m, so it’s kind of those, that’s, that’s the kinda that question is they were younger doing that then where that’s gonna escalate even as a hell. Yeah. Or
Adam Cloninger: makes you wonder they’re, they may have been younger, not though
Chris Gazdik: they need to get, because well, if they’re under 25 that, I mean, that’s pretty disturbed behavior, you know, to, to be in that if they’re under 25, like that’s good.
That we catch them because that’s very potential murder type, you know, sociopathic behavior.
Adam Cloninger: The thing that intrigued me was, you know, I, [00:15:00] I know there’s people who do some really bad things, but the lookout that just, I just,
Chris Gazdik: well, I, I think I picked that correctly. Yeah. The lookout. Highly codependent.
Yeah. That just person, yeah, that just
Adam Cloninger: kind of, it, that’s the, this part really freaked me out. I was like, well, it.
Chris Gazdik: It shows you the power, honestly, of relationships, dysfunctional characteristics or patterns. Sorry guys. I don’t know what’s wrong with my voice right now tonight. Maybe you got me choked up and weirded out.
Yes, that’s what it’s, you’re choked up. Geez. But when you’re in a destructive relationship, man, you, you, you become capable of a lot of things that you would never have thought yourself doing. You know? I mean, you, you get into an environment or you get into a role the human being and you human being listening to this, are actually capable of getting sucked into that.
And I’ll tell you, and as an example, I love to cite the studies that were done with the police officers and, you know, jail inmates, jail[00:16:00] guards and, and jail inmates years ago, where they just put random people in these roles. You are gonna be an inmate Neil, and you are gonna be a a jail guard.
You know Adam and we, we, along with a hundred other people, same thing. Inma
acting like prison guards, disturbingly. They had to cut the thing short. So would, would this
Adam Cloninger: be kinda like the same thing or the, the, the time, the times we hear about people who were doing like sexual abuse and the wife is like, you know, she
Neil Robinson: doesn’t aware of it, she doesn’t know.
She says she doesn’t know,
Adam Cloninger: or it’s complicit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is that kind of the same thing? I think so. Okay. I think
Chris Gazdik: so. Yeah. Highly, highly disturbing codependent behavior can put you in a scenario where you’re gonna do stuff that you never thought yourself capable of as poten. That’s possible.
Neil Robinson: And, and I think also the idea that you talk about with the fear, if you see them capable of someone doing this to someone else, it’s your survival.
So you’re just gonna let it happen. You know, there’s, [00:17:00] mm-hmm. Yeah. I could definitely see that as
Adam Cloninger: a, that might be her offense.
Chris Gazdik: Mm-hmm. Could be, you know, human sex trafficking that’s come out. You know, out of the dark in, in, with our movie color of, of freedom or smell of sound of freedom. Sound of freedom.
One of the sensory experience, smell of freedom. What One of the sensory. Yeah. The sound of freedom. I have still haven’t seen it. I really wanna see that. But yeah, people really do do sex trafficking, like in scary abductive ways and stuff. It’s crazy. So that’s a good transition to schizophrenia, right?
Yeah. There you go. Are we done with the Rabbit Hole? Yes. Yes. Episode two 38 is what we’re doing now. What was the one that we did? I didn’t get this episode number on this, Neil. That was 2 30, 35. 2 35, right?
Neil Robinson: Yep.
Chris Gazdik: Schizophrenia. Schizophrenia. It was a cool diagnostic show. Right. Yeah. Do you know what schizophrenia even really is?
Do you [00:18:00] realize this is within your likely own neighborhood circle or surroundings in life? And, you know, what, is it really like a life with schizophrenia? I’m really kind of curious, Adam, to hear your take from a layman’s perspective on something that you probably, I mean, have you ever really even had a full conversation about schizophrenia, like before you hear the shows?
Neil Robinson: Not that I recall, but just to Just, just to
Chris Gazdik: himself? Yeah. Oh boy. Oh boy.
Adam Cloninger: I was talking to myself the other day. No, but I do, I do have a kind of question here. So, I mean, I ki I think everybody’s ever kind of familiar of the term schizophrenia. So are all, are all schizophrenic. Do all of ’em have multiple personalities?
Or is that Not necessarily.
Neil Robinson: That’s different.
Chris Gazdik: That’s totally different. Okay. Impressive. Neil, go take it. Okay. Well, ‘
Neil Robinson: cause I think schizophrenia, you’re hearing those books. You’re, you’re having the outside stuff where multiple personalities is you are, you’re shifting your yourself. So schizophrenia is more about these [00:19:00] outside stuff, kind of inter basically affecting you’re hearing voices, you’re seeing things outside, or multiple personalities is you’re literally separating things out from, you know, your one person over here.
’cause you, you built that because you were abused and that was your survival. But it can’t be someone that have both. Right? Well, I’m sure, yeah, you could definitely have, I would think you could have both. So,
Chris Gazdik: Actually not, but I wanna give a praise out though. Shout out to Cass. Man. Good job. I think she nailed it.
I just saw the comment on YouTube live, you know, I think the the lookout was abused as well. I think you’re on, we’re all on point with that. No, I’m glad that
you asked that, Adam. It’s kind of cool because that gives me an idea of what people might think about this sort of stuff or how you might.
Incorporate it into your thinking. The, these are totally different things. Schizophrenia is really more, and, and to take a deeper dive. We, I think we spent a good jump on that in the show, John Victoria and I did, on what is this and what are the symptoms that, how’s it work? But, you know, for the [00:20:00] purposes here, it’s, it’s, it’s really a sensory experience that goes awry.
Like you don’t interpret auditory visual olfactory, which is smelling tactile, which is feeling the data properly, like stuff that’s really not there. You experience as being there, it’s kind of basically organized mostly around that organically with, with, with the brain. And you’ll get disorganized speech, you’ll get paranoid ideations, thoughts, you’ll get auditory or visual hallucinations, right?
There’s, there’s a few different types that go into this, but Disassociative identity disorder is the multiple personality. Something totally different, and usually that operates around somebody that has trauma and that trauma experience being so severe and so tough to kind of bring into that person’s reality that they enter into a whole different reality.
It’s fascinating. We should do a diagnostic show on d I D for sure. Honestly. Disassociative [00:21:00] Identity Disorder, that’s what we used to call multiple personality disorder. That’s so disturbing that they will like cut out and then cut themselves out from consciousness even, and then cut in a whole nother personality that like literally takes over.
It’s
Adam Cloninger: like a coping mechanism,
Chris Gazdik: right? It kind of is like a big fat coping mechanism and it’s weird stuff. Like you’ll, there’s some in the field therapists, even there’s some that have a little controversy. They don’t really believe it. I do believe it. It’s, it’s, it’s out there. It happens. I, I think it’s kinda rare, but I mean, you’ll have people that Right left-handed that are right-handed.
People that have developed in a whole nother personality. Oh,
Neil Robinson: I’m, I mean, we’ve talked about trauma where when someone goes through trauma, they might actually forget it. So the idea is that you could,
your brain could, in theory, rewire itself for certain situations and, but you really don’t think that with, with you the way you process things.
Like you said, how schizophrenia works. You don’t think that that part of it could possibly lead to multiple [00:22:00] personalities ’cause of the way that it kind of ties in you, you really don’t think that outside could cause a shift.
Chris Gazdik: Mm-hmm. No, it, well boy now cause a shift meaning causing schizophrenia. I mean, well schizophrenia
Neil Robinson: causing to where you get to the point where you almost build multiple personalities because of the
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, no, I think it’s, it’s, well probably, this is probably hypothetical in in me saying this, but maybe we need someone smarter than me.
But I think that honestly you’ll find that there are different parts of the brain actually in operating dysfunctional patterns with. The different issue. Like we, we talked a little bit about, if you recall, you know, John was, was really talking a lot about inflammation and tumors. So, you know, when we have schizophrenia or something significant and serious like that, we, we oftentimes wanna rule out like what are some real medical realities that can be causing us?
’cause that happens sometimes people will have schizophrenic like symptoms and we find they have a tumor, right? But that doesn’t [00:23:00] create multiple personality disorder, anything like that. Like, I’ve never heard of d i d being created by some medical reality, honestly. I could be proven wrong, but I That’s, that’d be fascinating if somebody’s heard of that out there.
Makes sense. So, have you ever, have you ever seen a movie A Beautiful Mind, Adam? Yes. Yeah. It’s awesome movie. Right? I actually love that movie. Yeah. It’s a good movie. Mm-hmm. Did you know that’s about schizophrenia? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean that’s, that is a really, really good depiction of, of what somebody’s living the life with, with this as, I didn’t know, John actually pointed out that in real life, that guy had auditory hallucinations and they switched it for the movie to being visual hallucinations.
Hmm. ’cause it’s like, makes for a better movie, I guess. Yeah, exactly. Seeing it instead of hearing it. Yeah. How, how you gonna. Make a movie about auditory hallucination. But
Neil Robinson: I, I think it’s just the fact that he, he lived his life with it without medication. Like the idea, right. The idea that he actually, the logic [00:24:00] behind it and the thing where he actually learned how to live with it.
Because I feel there’s a lot of people that go through these things and they’re like, I just can’t deal with it or this, and like to actually show that. Well, it, I guarantee it probably was not easy and I can’t speak for him, guy. I don’t really know. But like, it’s something when you deal with that, it’s not easy, but it means that it is possible.
And I think that’s something to kind of think about for people that are struggling. Like, it is possible to live a life. You just, now you have this extra piece that you now have to deal with and manage. I think that’s kind of the thing that’s kinda interesting about it.
Chris Gazdik: Well, it, it’s awesomely about it. I mean, I guess.
I don’t wanna switch over, but I, I, I almost want to switch over to the last one episode. You’re episode now episode three seven, right? Like shame for medical conditions. I, I, I’ll, I’ll, we’ll go to that later, I guess, but it, it applies to that, but yeah. Neil, I think that that’s a, a big part of like what happens for people with serious mental conditions as well as [00:25:00] serious physical realities like, you know, isn’t accepting things that you’re talking about, like a big part of it.
You can manage it if it’s, if you’re not like fighting against the fact that I even have it or what the problems are with it. It is fascinating that he lived a life without medicine treatment and I mean, that’s schizophrenia.
Neil Robinson: Yeah, it’s powerful. It’s crazy. Right
Chris Gazdik: to, to stay on schizophrenia. You know, we didn’t really get to talk about family members in the realities that family members struggle with when you deal with schizophrenia.
Now, I think the, the example that I, I wanted to talk about didn’t get a chance when we talked about this, was the where was it? The, a congressman that was in Virginia. Here it is Craig Deeds. Do you remember this? This article is in the show notes for today, 2013. He was a house of Representatives in, in that district, Craig Deeds.
And recently he was talking about in advocation for [00:26:00] mental health, the, the, the events that happened with his son. Now, his son, I think, had maybe schizoaffective, which is a combination of bipolar and schizophrenia. But in any
case he had a murder attempt on the congressman, his dad through stabbing and then suicide.
He completed the act of suicide. So this is a congressman’s kid that has massive resources, of course. I mean, they’re not poor, but yet they continue to live a life of struggle with can this kid live independently we’ll, we’ll get a house for him locally, like how do we manage his life with him or for him as he becomes an adult and significant dis just, you know, struggle to the point of, you know, this dramatic 2013 event with a murder suicide.
My point here is like the challenge of managing a family member or a, a life with this is hard. And we [00:27:00] need community support that we don’t have in, in place. It’s a really tough issue for all of our society.
Neil Robinson: Well, I mean, I think there’s a lot of stuff right now with the homelessness. A lot of it looks to be mental health issues that led to a lot of homelessness.
Well, I told you before that, you know, I had a family situation dealing with someone who was a paranoid schizo, who had paranoid schizophrenia. You did? That’s right. And, and that I, it’s, it’s very hard when you’re in those situations, if you’re not trained to know what to do. Have the patients know how to desc Oh, yes.
Because when you’re, when you’re in those situations, I feel like deescalation is almost more important than anything else because when they get into those situations where it was, it becomes very elevated. Mm-hmm. Knowing how to properly handle that, because I, we had a situation like that. There was something, and of course ours did.
Our situation did not end. Well in the long run for, for the family member. It’s still, how do you deal with it? How do you, you know, he ended up being going to a shelter somewhere and that’s when he, that’s when he [00:28:00] completed suicide. You know, that’s one those things you just don’t know how to deal with it.
And, but yeah, it’s, it’s hard. And if you don’t have the support around it or they’re not educated well or what’s going on, you know, there’s a lot of stuff that it could have been different, had that stuff been there, you know? Right. How to handle it. His medication was better regulated that he had the family and the support behind it.
’cause there’s a lot of stuff other that went with it because he moved out here because I think his wife couldn’t deal with it, I think. Right. That’s, that’s, that’s happenstance. I pretty sure that’s probably what happened or that’s what we think happened and you have that and then you’re here and then the episodes kick in and, but how do you handle it?
How does someone not trained and handle a family member?
Chris Gazdik: It’s a lot to it and it, it’s really is a lot to it. That creates such terrible trouble. I mean, you know, again, famous people have dealt with this re most recently the congressman, you know, with that, with that event. I mean, you know, part of the other thing, Adam, that I was really trying to drive home if you got from the show, right, like how common this is because [00:29:00] Yeah, I too, Neil have a family member that we suspect, you know, had suicide and I’d say suspect ’cause we’re not even really sure.
I’m not at least, I mean she was pretty paranoid, pretty delusional in that regard, which schizophrenia type symptoms for sure. But At the recording of that show, I had a client that day that had a family member that had schizophrenia. When we recorded the show, John shared that he also had a client that week.
Well, there’s probably a
Adam Cloninger: lot of us not diagnosed with
Chris Gazdik: it. Well, there might be some misdiagnosis, but I’m saying no, I’m talking about people
Adam Cloninger: that have
Chris Gazdik: it. That’s not diagnosed. There may be some misdiagnosis. Yeah, I agree. But, but the point I’m making is actually in our little circle, there’s Neil, me personally with family, me, professionally that week, and then John that week as well.
Like this is, that’s a lot. Ironically, when you tune into schizophrenia, how commonly it
Adam Cloninger: happens. I might know someone too. I, we’ll talk after the show, right? Po possibly. Yeah. We’ll talk. We can,
Chris Gazdik: I mean, it’s, it’s amazing if you think about it. [00:30:00] This is about a one percenter issue, is it? Yeah. Don’t hold me to it.
I didn’t, it don’t sound like 1% the way you’re talking about it. I know, and that’s my point. I mean, think about 1% of 330 million people. I mean, that’s, that’s a lot of folk. You know, somebody talk like, I almost like, kinda wanna look it up to, to, to, to check it out. Yeah. Look it up Neil. I, I, because what, what percentage of, yeah.
What, what is the population percentage with schizophrenia diagnosis diagnosed? Because you come across this a lot more than you would think. The myth is, I, I’m never gonna see this. This never happens. This is not around, I’m, I’m telling you, in your neighborhood, either somebody has or knows of pretty personally that it could be your neighbor across the street.
Literally, I’m telling you, 1.2%. Now Adam’s gonna create neighborhood conflicts all, all around the land. What? Yeah. 1.2, they said,
Neil Robinson: goddamn down the street in, in America, it’s 1.2%, which is about 3.2 [00:31:00] million people would have it. 3.2
Chris Gazdik: million people. A lot of people. That’s a lot of people. Mm-hmm. Right. What was the percentage?
Whoa.
Neil Robinson: 1.2. 1.2. Not one to two. 1.2.
Adam Cloninger: Yeah. One 2%. I got, I work with over a thousand people,
Neil Robinson: so you should know 10 people or 12. 12
Chris Gazdik: people. That’s, that’s strong math skills, bro. Well done. How the hell did you do that? Just percentages. 4% is 1%. Okay. Wow. Yeah. Okay. That’s easy to do. Sorry, I tuned out my phone, my phone went off.
I had to figure out what was going on with, with my phone, but just, just because of time. I, I, I think I wanna move on. But I mean, I, I, I think that the, the, the reality there was, was so real with how this thing goes, how schizophrenia operates, what it really is. There’s so many myths out there about it, but, so listen to that one and, and, and dispel it.
’cause also, you know, major mental health, like bipolar [00:32:00] disorders and schizophrenia or, or schizoaffective. Like I said, it’s a combination of those, those types of things. You come across a lot more than you would think. And I
think that show kind of helps take some of the myth out, some of the mystery out and to, to make it more, a little bit more normal.
Closing thoughts on diagnostics, schizophrenia. Month in review. That’s
Adam Cloninger: interesting.
Neil Robinson: I like the list of celebrities that I’ve had it too, which kind of was an interesting take to see where they, where that actually part of it actually, the schizophrenia almost added to a lot of the, there was a lot of creative people, whether it was musical or writing or stuff like, so it’s kind of interesting that that shift in thought process and that that mental capacity and how they work it is process.
Adam Cloninger: I’m wondering that’s kind of just built up for publicity though.
Neil Robinson: I don’t think they need publicity after they die.
Adam Cloninger: Seriously. Oh, well, did I didn’t, I was
Chris Gazdik: unaware of that. Yeah. Yeah. The, the list you might not recall. There’s, there’s, well, you, you know, there was, there was a lot of who was on there like Van Gogh and, well, yeah, but, well,
Neil Robinson: Brian Wilson of the [00:33:00] Beach Boys.
There was a lot of Floyd, pink Floyd. There was a guy from Pink Floyd. There was Daryl Drummer, Darryl Hammond, the comedian was on, is on that list. He’s not properly diagnosed. Butler. I think there’s something where, no, he
Chris Gazdik: wasn’t on that list. No, he’s, he’s doing bad things in pet stores. Exactly. You know, like, ah, that’s what that guy’s doing.
Adam Cloninger: But yeah. But he, he was diagnosed with or speculated, has schizophrenia, right? Was he diagnosed or just speculated? N n n No, I don’t what
Chris Gazdik: you Sure. I’m not sure. I think he was speculated with having Asperger’s or being on the autism spectrum. I, I thought
Adam Cloninger: I heard read somewhere that they speculated he had schizophrenia too.
Really?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. You might be right. I mean, you very well. I, I can imagine that to be, that would make sense. Yeah. I mean, you know, pretty creative. Amazingly and intelligent, but boy, you know, on another level with, with cuckoo Yeah. With believing stuff’s not real and whatever, you know, so I, it’s, it’s possible.
You got that Neil. He’s trying, he’s
Neil Robinson: already looking to know. Before we move on, I’m just trying to see He’s been [00:34:00] associated with like bipolar, schizophrenia and psychopathic.
Chris Gazdik: Psychopathic psychopathy. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Bipolar. Yeah. Boy, he’s also autistic. Is the autistic thing you mentioned earlier? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. That would be, that’s it. Schizo effective. Very, yeah, very possible. No, multiple personalities? No, no, no, no. D i d although he made a lot of people probably have d i d. That’s another. Ugh. Gosh. So what was the next episode? Alright, the next episode, 2 37. Are we in a mental health crisis? You skipped 2 36.
No, I’m on 2 36. Oh, you said 2 37. Did I? Yeah, well I’m at 2 36 6 because I’ve read 2 36 and if I said 2 37, that’s weird. I’m delusional. No. Anyway, he’s gonna have to go back, look at the tape now. What is a crisis? Are we in a mental health crisis? And the third question for episode 2 36, are we in a mental health crisis?
90% say we are in the us The third question, what do we [00:35:00] do about improving mental health as a large, as a large group? So yeah, I just, I just saw this as a really cool Kaiser Permanente combined with c n n had this poll out there that found literally 90% of us, at least in the states. And I think around the world you’ll find, you know, that that’s commonly thought of as well.
Like, dude, that we’re in a crisis mental health. What says you two? I did the same thing with John and Victoria. What says you,
Adam Cloninger: I’m curious what the, the day like. Define what crisis was, or just
Chris Gazdik: obviously no, or just kind of broad statement. I, I think they made broad statements and just took a survey from, you know, from everybody and kind of came at a conclusion with the number.
I say 90%
Adam Cloninger: sounds awful high to me.
Chris Gazdik: It sounds like way high. What
Neil Robinson: caught my eye? Yeah, I would love to see the audience breakdown. I would love to see like, like how the demographics played out on that, because [00:36:00] there, there was another demo poll I saw where they talked about people being diagnosed with like a mental health.
Problem and depending on their demographic, the numbers skewed from like 20 to like up to like 50, 60% that they would have that they have some sort of a mental health disability. And so I would be very intrigued to know like out of this, who got poll 90%, like how does that 90% breakdown? Because I think there’s certain demographics in this country that you would say like, I would say like a hundred percent would say yeah, we’re, we’re all mentally, we’re all in a crisis.
And some were like, nah, we’re, no, I don’t think it’s that bad. But I think, you know, for the most part, depending who they pulled, I could see the 90% if you hit the right group of people. Well also how
Adam Cloninger: they brought it up. You know, they might’ve, if it’s this guy standing on the corner, he says, Hey, you think there’s some crazy people in the world talk spending?
Yeah. Well, do you think it’s been question?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Okay. Thank you. I’m gonna trust that there’s some signs that they did with polling. Don’t you know, Kaiser is a legit company. C n n is a legit company, and they, you know, they’re not Yeah, you’re gonna give [00:37:00] me the, the, the, the YouTube version. You know, Neil’s like, oh God, c n n what are you a, a News Nation guy, you know?
No, actually News Nation’s my go-to. I like them a lot. That’s, I like that. But, you know, I don’t think there’s much of a stretch to say that there, there’s not legitimacy to people believing that You’ve heard people say this. Yeah, I, I, it’s wicked High number. If 90% seems too high Adam, I, I agree. It sounds high,
but like, dude, there, how many people you talk about all the things going on, it’s crazy in the world right now that Covid brought us to, like substance abuse and child abuse.
Adam Cloninger: So you’re saying a thousand people work with nine, 900 of them have a mental health
Chris Gazdik: issue? No. No.
Adam Cloninger: Believe that, believe there’s a crime. Okay. Believe there’s a crisis.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah, yeah. I I said it wrong.
Adam Cloninger: I said it wrong.
Neil Robinson: You’re right. Different. I said it wrong. I said it wrong.
Adam Cloninger: Yeah, that would be, so 900, only a hundred people think there’s not
Neil Robinson: a crisis.
They’re probably oblivious working on their [00:38:00] machines and they’re done. You know, they come in work and leave. But I think it goes back to, we talked about before with social media, the, the exacerbation of like trauma or drama in the news and social media, right? It’s like if you’re, all you’re looking at is how horrible things are in this country with protest or this or that or all this other, like, yeah, I would think that they would be, 90% would think there’s a mental health crisis too, when in reality there probably isn’t.
But all you see on the news and social media and everywhere you look, it’s about some sort of a problem going on in this country. So he’s 10%,
Chris Gazdik: well, e even Yeah, he’s, he’s part of the 10 percenter. I, I might be honestly, but I put that as a teaser for a moment. But I mean, you know, you do, you hear, you hear arguments and concerns about gun control.
And, and crime. And, and one of the things that sided for that on particularly conservative networks, ’cause I checked them all out to try to stay a little bit in tuned and they’re all citing mental health, you know, as a, as a [00:39:00] major part of the puzzle for our crime increases and for our issues with suicide and for our issues with, with gun control.
You know, the mental health is now sided pretty strongly. A as, as a, as a major concern really on both the left and and the right with different issues throughout the different concerns that you, that you have. And I, I think John’s take on this was kind of interesting. Like he really cited off a lot of the things that he’s seen advantage to him being so old.
We had to make an old joke when we talk about John, right? I. He does it to himself.
Adam Cloninger: We’re gonna talk about harassment sometime, about
Neil Robinson: being, I’m, I’m John. I’m joking. Age harassment. I’m joking.
Chris Gazdik: I’m joking. Age harassment sucks. Ageism. I was a victim ’cause I was always too young. Now I’m on the other. Oh, poor you.
Side of the equation of ageism. Poor you. I know. It was terrible. That’s why I got my goatee. You know that ’cause you wanna be look older. I did. ’cause I wanted to [00:40:00] look, have more therapeutic legitimacy when I was a young man. So, and then I’ve, I’ve just kept it. That’s, that’s true. Anyway, that was years ago.
Where was I, John? He was listening all these things with his stuff that he’s seen over the last 50, 60 years. And it was fascinating to hear him look at, you know, the family’s change, people’s commitments to religion has changed. The fast paced, the technology advancements, the, I mean, what did he list?
Right? Like, you know, and he, he made some points about how like, That’s really added up to like a lot of mental struggle for us.
Neil Robinson: Yeah, I would, I would agree with them. When you look at, you know, you could even go back, I think I heard some talk about even industrial revolution and the, like after war. You know, the wars came, a lot of the, the men got killed from World War I, world War ii.
When they came back, they started industrial jobs where they were just going into to go work. And so there was this whole [00:41:00] breakdown of a whole structure of a family structure that kind of led to, that was kind of the start. And I don’t remember who I heard that from, but that was one of those many things that I’ve listened to.
And it’s, it’s just ever since then, it’s just feels like it’s just kind of gone downhill since then. Like without that, you know, the nuclear family kind of idea with it,
you know, the, the dad’s not there as much. You know, when the kids were growing up and they were on the farm, the kid would be on the farm with the dad.
Growing and learning at that time. Now the dad’s gone at work, you know, he goes into the office and then, but there’s
Adam Cloninger: always things like that. I mean, couple hundred years ago that they’d be 40 years old. I mean,
Neil Robinson: you know, so there’s, they didn’t have, they didn’t have time to build up a mental health crisis.
Yeah. So, you know, there’s always something. Yeah.
Adam Cloninger: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: There is always something, but, but there’s something to be said with the dramatically fast change. I think is what John was really highlighting. So are you 10%
Adam Cloninger: or 90%? I’m trying.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. You know, thank you for bringing me back to that because I, I’m not [00:42:00] sure, to be honest with
Adam Cloninger: you, I think I’m 10%.
Yeah. Yep.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. I, I, I feel like, you know, the way we, the way we dramatize what we’re thinking about or experiencing is what bothers me a little bit with it. Because to me, mental health crisis means a little bit something more, right? I started my career on a mobile crisis team. So when somebody’s in a crisis, it is an imminent need for change.
And we talked about what crisis was on the show. We won’t do as much of that here tonight, but, you know, what defines a crisis? What, what essentially is, you know, kind of going on in the need to react to that, you know, the idea that a clinician actually like, takes over more of, of the situation. But I, so, so all of that is just a quick review, but.
I, I don’t know that we need click bait or to dramatize the realities that we’re in and, and call it a crisis. A
Adam Cloninger: crisis. Well, I, I think there’s a mental [00:43:00] health, more of a mental health awareness.
Chris Gazdik: Absolutely. Absolutely. And that might be
Adam Cloninger: what is driving people to think that there’s a crisis
Chris Gazdik: and people being more aware, seeing a lot of what’s happening.
Yeah. N now hearing
Adam Cloninger: about pet stores or whatever. Oh, sorry. I caused anybody’s
Chris Gazdik: trauma crisis today. Yeah. It makes us more concerned. Yep. Which is really, really good. However, I gotta say again, Why I’m maybe, probably in the, in the 90 to 91 spot, because I, I think John’s really right. And, and if you think about it on big, big picture, life is really different and rapidly changing, and our human psyche doesn’t understand how to keep up with
Adam Cloninger: it.
Have y’all done an episode on people being indecisive?
Neil Robinson: We’ve
Chris Gazdik: thought about it. Okay. Are you calling, you got
Adam Cloninger: something to say? [00:44:00] Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So you thought about it. Oh, wow. I was hoping you caught that.
Chris Gazdik: We couldn’t
Adam Cloninger: decide we were gonna do that. That, so we, okay.
Neil Robinson: But I, but I also think, going back to human psyche thing, I feel like because now we’re becoming more aware of the struggle that we have in our mental states.
Like Yeah. Do we actually now are, are we
Adam Cloninger: actually, sorry. That’s
Chris Gazdik: what he adds to the show, man. Wow.
Neil Robinson: You know, Is part of the issue with today’s society is because of mental health issues we’ve run into that we’re becoming more aware of, has our society of instant gratification now exacerbated the whole thing.
I like that term today. I don’t know why, but exacerbate. But like, because we don’t wanna put the work into actually deal with our mental health issues because of the instant gratification of society. Like, okay, I, I, now I’m looking at these things, I have this mental health problem, but gimme a pill versus actually learning how to deal with it.
Do you know that there’s that weird two sides of it? I’m aware of it, but I don’t wanna put the work [00:45:00] into adjust and deal with it. I, I,
Chris Gazdik: yeah. I really think there’s a piece there, Neil, for sure. But more so I think people want to deal with themselves and their emotional realities. But again, I, I don’t know that we know how, like, I think that if, if, if, if there would be no changes that are major changes, this isn’t even gonna sound realistic.
Or, or Right. Think about how crazy this is what I’m about to say. If we could go a hundred years without any major technological changes in our life, then I think that we would, as a large group, be a lot more grounded, a lot less anxious, a whole lot more serene and, and, and, and peaceful. But as a result, there’s always
Adam Cloninger: something.
It’d be environmental. There’ll be war, there’ll be something that’ll cause issues.
Chris Gazdik: Well issues, yeah. But not as dramatic and as quickly a change as we’ve had in the last 100 years. I mean, a hundred [00:46:00] years ago, I. Things were horse and buggy and slow and, you know, did we even hardly have radio? Right? Yeah, but I mean, but okay.
We’ll, we’ll think about a thousand years prior to a hundred years ago, right? Was life really that different a thousand years before? A hundred years ago? How many difference in the last hundred years has there been to the human race? And can you even imagine a hundred years from now, we’re gonna be living on the freaking moon?
Neil Robinson: Think in 10 years,
Adam Cloninger: well think about the, the
Neil Robinson: craziness of the printing press. What was that like 1,408, like around 1400 or 13? A major. So I mean, you have like a 600 year gap to go from a printing press to then a 600. And then within a hundred years, we see what we do now. Like it’s crazy. It really is this curve, this, you know, crazy exponential curve.
Chris Gazdik: It’s, it’s a really dramatic change in the way that human beings operate. Wait till [00:47:00] quantum computers come. It, Adam, honestly, yes it does. Dude. Like quantum computers, AI space travel like technological advances in 50 years. I, I, I don’t think we have any idea what that’s gonna look like. It let alone a hundred.
That’s, that’s, it’s changing so fast. Human beings don’t know what the hell to do with it. We don’t know what
Adam Cloninger: to do
Neil Robinson: with it. There’s always that curve. Anytime you see, like ev, even when you look at social media, look at the, look at the flux of how long it’s taken us to even get to where we’re dealing with some of the social media stuff, like the fads, the growth, like our brains just don’t know how to, it takes like, it’s takes like six months to a year before you finally like, what the heck have I even been doing?
Because it just, you just kind of go,
Chris Gazdik: listen, I have been completely off of Facebook almost a hundred percent. Good for you. For about five months. Yeah. Good for you. I, I tell you, it’s very different. It’s very different. I’m very proud of and happy for her. I shouldn’t say proud of, but I, I am though. But I, I’m also very happy that my [00:48:00] wife has decided to get off of Facebook too.
She’s, she’s 86. I’m like, wow, I didn’t see that coming. Right. But I think human beings are beginning to realize and acknowledge like, wait a minute, this shit is not good for me. It’s messing with me. It’s bothering me, it’s upsetting me. What? Looking at pictures and face scrolling through a paper. Yes. That makes you anxious.
It’s crazy. So anyway, I, I don’t know. Yeah, I’m like in the 90%. Yeah. I, I, I think, I think we, I thought he said
Adam Cloninger: 10. He did. I’m in the 91
Chris Gazdik: to 90.
Neil Robinson: 91.2.
Adam Cloninger: 19 point
Chris Gazdik: 90.2. How about that? I’m gonna land at 90.2. It’s, it’s my I’ll, I’ll be a part of that. Okay. We need to move on though before we go. Gonna completely out of time.
I, I hope. What did we miss? Not covering that, but anyway, this is a review. You’re gonna have to listen to the show to get the whole thing. ’cause I think there were more about that, that we didn’t get to talk about, but we gotta move on. Episode 2 37 that we talked about shame for medical conditions. What is shame-based feelings, honestly, in the [00:49:00] first place?
Why do we need to be aware of shame and how does it affect us medically? And how do we manage shame? So what were we talking about there? I feel like we started out really with like, what even is, can you guys put a finger on, you’ve heard of shame-based feelings. You’ve heard of, you know, I feel shameful.
Shame on you. There’s expressions that we have, but I’m gonna maintain that. It’s really hard to put your finger on what it really even is. Does that sound crazy? You know, I
Adam Cloninger: don’t think so. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Like it’s a, you can, you can, John was talking about shame and guilt being such kissing cousins close, close to each other, right?
Like, you know, but I feel like they’re pretty different. Guilt. I, you feel bad that about something that you did, you wished you had, didn’t done a different action. Shame is not really that.
Neil Robinson: I think the biggest differentiator was guilt is is feelings after something you’ve done. Shame is feelings you feel from an outside source.
Yeah. It’s a, you’ve lost something or [00:50:00] something’s happened to you and you feel shame for it. Guilt is, oh shoot, I went to the pet store, you know, kind of situation.
Adam Cloninger: Ouch. Oh, so the pet shop
Neil Robinson: owners feel shame. Yeah. And the two people feel well, guilty probably don’t feel guilt, but that’s a whole nother thing.
Hopefully. So, but that was, that was the thing. ’cause like we talked about it, the, the shame had the, the Germanic root of like loss of repu. One of the thing was loss of reputation. Ah. John kind of John was talking ELO about that. Yeah. So I think I was talking too, but you couldn’t hear me ’cause I didn’t have the You didn’t have the mic.
Yes, the cord didn’t work. Good job by the way. But yeah, I think so. I agree with you. I think there’s a big difference between guilt and
Chris Gazdik: shame. Yeah. Yeah, Victoria said something that really added my understanding of shame a lot. The human emotional experience. We figured it out together. Like it really is a cool thought about all of this because she said how it comes from a deeper place, and I’m like, you know what?
Dang dude, girl, she’s right on point. Because shame wells up [00:51:00] as opposed to pops out or impulsively shows up. It, it, it is from a darker place within us that, that, that wells up in situations pretty commonly, by the way, arguably daily. But you know, that, that welling like the fundamental doubt and fear of oneself not being enough, coming up in situations and feeling that reality feared being confirmed is a part of what, like I see.
Shame as. So you think
Adam Cloninger: shame is more like a fear and guilt was more like a.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, an regret, an assessment, like, I’ve done something wrong. What’d you say? Regret. Regret. A regret? Yeah. Oh, it’s a good word. It’s a real good word. Re regrets. Rets. Rett. You know, you know, it’s funny, I didn’t know what the heck was going on with that.
I, I really didn’t even
Adam Cloninger: know. I must have missed something that,
Chris Gazdik: so John popped out Regers in the middle of the show, and Neil starts losing it, causing Victoria to start
Adam Cloninger: losing it. Well, [00:52:00] she knows,
Neil Robinson: she knows the meme too. Yeah. It’s Do you, do you, you don’t know the Retts meme. I know now. It’s the guy has like this, this commercial.
Well, well there, it started out, this guy had like this thug guy, this white guy had like his, he had tattoo on his back and like old English, like, like almost like, and, and it, and it says no reg regrets instead of no regrets. So that’s, he’s like rets. That’s, that’s, that’s the thing. And
Chris Gazdik: this was a milky wig commercial where, I’m sorry.
So I’m eating
Adam Cloninger: a Milky way. I’m just curious, did he say it wrong on purpose
Neil Robinson: or not? Oh, he was making the joke. Yeah, John, a hundred percent on, on purpose. Okay.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, John, John made the joke. Victoria and Neil were rolling, and I didn’t know what was going on. Chris was like, I don’t get it. I didn’t know what was happening.
That’s good. Good stuff. So do you know, I, I thought it was a good conversation about, you know, the, the ways that shame really dramatically affects us. You know, you know, When you get a major medical diagnosis, this idea that’s so unfortunate [00:53:00] that shame comes into the picture, like how it really affects you.
I thought that was a, a good part of our conversation. I. Yeah. What’d you, what’d you think?
Adam Cloninger: Yeah, I think that, I mean,
Neil Robinson: that’s the biggest thing. ’cause like I said, when you deal with medical conditions, a lot of times it is so outta your control. You can’t do anything about that. When you, like, if, like we’ve talked about, of course the common thing was ed, erectile dysfunction, like that shame, which I’m like, but like
don’t wanna be treated differently because you have it, or you know, you have, you know, you see, like, I was thinking about this right before the, like, before we start our park talking about it, like a lot of those, like medication commercials, it always starts with those shames of like, oh, you don’t want people to see your eczema or, right.
You don’t. Absolutely. And, and that, that is pure marketing 1 0 1. They’re, they’re showing you the pain and they’re gonna say, we’re gonna, we’re gonna help you. We’re gonna make you feel not get your fix. Right. You’re not gonna feel shame for this situation because we’re gonna. Fix it. I have
Chris Gazdik: not heard or seen, John was talking about along the same lines, [00:54:00] advertisements for Depends, which is a adult diaper basically for incontinence and whatnot, being viral strong, powerful man.
Neil Robinson: Like, it’s been, it’s been really weird. A lot of the commercials, like, I’ve seen some lately, I’m like, they’re actually at like one of, I’ve seen a few razor commercials and I’m like, they’re promoting that. Like, it’s kind of weird, the stuff they’ve shifted. There’s a lot of things that are like, that people would normally be ashamed of or, you know, fearful.
Like it’s becoming, there’s a lot of commercial I’ve seen lately that like, you’re gonna promote that as a commercial, but obviously a lot of people relate to it, but it’s still like, like, I didn’t wanna see that, but maybe that’s not good. But it’s yeah, I think that’s, that’s the biggest thing is, and you know, when we talk about it, when you have a medical condition, it’s that acceptance and, and normalizing it.
So you don’t feel that, feel that shame. I think that’s something we talked about at one point, like if you have it. It happens. How do you handle it? How do you move on? How do you get to the point where you accept the reality so you don’t feel [00:55:00] ashamed to have it? You know, that’s kind of, I think it’s a shame is a, to me, a big mental thing about how do you get over that fear?
You know? We talked about it.
Chris Gazdik: Exactly. And you know what? There’s a good segue, Neil, to something that I don’t think we got to spend enough time on that episode, which is one of the reasons why I like to do these reviews. Right? Because I think there’s some things, space on the stuff that you didn’t get to, we didn’t really get to.
Right? Yeah. You know, because I really feel like a big part. I mean we, we mentioned it ’cause I think I sprinkled it in and I think that John and Victoria kind of agreed What, what says you Neil? Because I felt like. Fighting against the medical diagnosis or emotionally accepting the medical diagnosis is a really big part of how you experience the shame in it.
I brought that up and I think they agreed with me. Do you do?
Neil Robinson: Yeah. They, yeah, they agreed with you on that one.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. I, I, I thought so, but we didn’t, I don’t think we talked about how big of a deal is to, to [00:56:00] that is, I’m gonna
Adam Cloninger: use the term that Chris hates.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, it is what it is. Oh, I do hate that term. Golly.
Why are you using that stupid phrase? What does
Adam Cloninger: that even mean? It’s acceptance, man. Acceptance. It is what it is. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Is that, I, I, no, I I’m definitely pushing back at that. That’s, he hates that. I do hate that he hates that, because it’s not even acceptance, man. It, it’s, you know what that is, is I’m resolving to be disempowered.
Can’t do anything about it anyway, so the hell with it, screw it. And, you know, we’ll just roll with it and try to forget it. Like that’s, is
Adam Cloninger: that, is that not what you’re doing anyway? No. If you get diagnosed with cancer and you can’t do anything about it, you just, no. Let it go.
Neil Robinson: Well, should, shouldn’t. It is what it is.
Be the precursor to it is what it is. So then I’m gonna do what I can do. I feel like you almost have it is what it is now. That would be cool. Say that again. It, [00:57:00] it is what it is. So I’m gonna do what I can do. Okay. Like that. Like I said, that’s gonna be a short, that’s a little
Adam Cloninger: different. Yeah. Nail in the shortness time.
Neil Robinson: Hey, I’m not, I know I’m not that tall, but come on.
Adam Cloninger: But yeah, that was
Chris Gazdik: a dad joke. That was
Neil Robinson: bad. Yeah. Well just wait. I’m sure there’ll be plenty more. ’cause I think that’s, that’s the power of that. It is what it is, is that acceptance of what it is. But you have to have that next phrase of, okay, so because it is what it is now what can I do or what do I need to do
Chris Gazdik: from here, Adam, if you use both phrases in combination, I won’t give you grief ever again about that phrase.
’cause that’s awesome. I love that game. I’m just
Adam Cloninger: thrilled he’s had had here at least three times this episode. That’s just made my day. Oh dear.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. It is what it is. So I’m gonna do what I can do. That’s awesome. I’ll say, I’ll give you number five just so we can use the thumb. That one needs to be on a cup somewhere, right?
I’ll have to, I’ll have to put that one on
a
Neil Robinson: quote. So that’s actually
Chris Gazdik: a, something good. Something we need to add That is a good one to, to, to the quotes list that we have on our show. And we need to start using them, by the way, for merchandise. Yeah. If it is what it [00:58:00] is. So I’m going to do what I can do. I love it.
And make the, make the, it is what it is in small print and in big print. So I will do what I can do because that’s empowered, that’s accepting what’s going on. And, but not just like passing the buck and being, you know, there’s nothing I can do about this. I’m gonna throw my hands in the air kind of stuff.
That’s what drives me nuts. I like empowerment. I like groundedness. I like action points. I like making movement. You know, I don’t do a lot of sitting still just wallowing in our pain and staying stuck. Crap. I, I don’t like that. I don’t like that. That’s why I don’t like the phrase, thanks for bringing it up, Adam.
You’re so
Adam Cloninger: welcome, Chris.
Neil Robinson: But, but I think doing that, like you said, shame is about an outside, an outside factor causing your, you’re causing your shame. If you stand up and you go against it, it’s gonna, it, it, it changes the whole dynamic of things. It changes the whole [00:59:00] dynamic of how it affects you, you know, your mental state and how your outlook and your attitude.
There’s, I’m pretty sure there’s been a lot of studies that say if you have a positive outlook, there’s a difference in your outcome versus someone who’s very negative and very depressed and like, there’s that whole energy. Factor that comes along with it. So like, that’s very powerful when you, when you really take that medical condition by the horn and just say, no, I’m not gonna let you do this to me, and I’m gonna go with this and just continue to go forward.
You know, that’s, that’s a huge ’cause you’re taking an outside source and now you’re, you’re controlling it,
Chris Gazdik: control it, you know? CAS once again, I, I gotta give her another prompt. Awesome. She’s, she’s ever faithful. Medical conditions drive the market. The larger the population, the more the drive to showcase, which kind of, yeah.
It, and shames can be a big part of that, showcasing unfortunately, conditions that people have, making us feel more and more guilty about, you know, medical problems and stuff that we have. It, [01:00:00] it, it does, it drives medications. It drives profit. Yeah. That’s horrible to think about, but probably true. No, it is probably a hundred percent.
A hundred percent true. Yeah. I think we’ll all agree with that. We’re in the 90% on this one. We’re in the 90% on this one. Yes. About 95% we will include even more people. 96.2. Alright. Wow. Now we’re just getting stic. Is that a word savant? I don’t know. Sure. Savant. We can make that a word, you know since we’re on a cool word, savant.
I’m gonna say, I just discover something cool about my phone, man. Apple, you can like swing things over. Like I can hide the picture screen and then pull it back and then pull it down. Like, this is Apple. I,
Neil Robinson: Chris, Chris finally got a new phone after like eight years. Oh, it was
Adam Cloninger: amazing. Have you not been used or nevermind,
Chris Gazdik: we won’t be on this.
I didn’t know that you could do all that, man. I mean, there’s like all kinds of sliding directions with this like,
Neil Robinson: Now, now having an old phone should give you shame. And so now that you have that, you no longer have that shame. You have to get a new phone now.
Chris Gazdik: Chris, are you shaming me? No. This [01:01:00] is an awesome, he, he just got the new phone.
This
Adam Cloninger: is a new phone. That’s so do do you use white noise at night? No. You know that’s on
Chris Gazdik: your phone, right? Oh, really? Yep. You can sleep white noise. He’s like, swing it over there and it just, oh, you know, I’m sorry. It doesn’t take much for me.
Neil Robinson: All right, next one. A, d d
Chris Gazdik: No, we’re, we’re staying with the, the procrastinating and the indecisions of getting shows posted to where you stay with that.
Oh,
Neil Robinson: there was no indecision in that one. That was pure, I, there was clear decisions on that one. I, oh, I procrastinated
Chris Gazdik: that one. Oh, okay. The last part before we get outta here is what do we do to manage shame? And I think that there was a cool notion that I posed to Victoria and John, I forget guys what they said.
Maybe either of you’ll remember. But the idea of, you know, I heard somebody say recently is what ended into my thoughts before the show prep. Not everyone’s a cardiologist. Like I don’t know a lot [01:02:00] about the heart. Like a cardiologist does, but I know how to do C P r I know some fundamental things that will help somebody if they’re in a medical cardiac, you know,
condition a get ’em to the hospital super quick, but really like c P R, that, that saves lives.
We have basic understanding of things like this. Why do we not have a whole lot of basic understanding? What is the c p R of mental health. Right. Do you remember what Victoria and Book three and John book? Book three. Three. Wow. C
Adam Cloninger: p R of Mental Health
Chris Gazdik: by Chris Gaston. That has a ring to it. It does, doesn’t it?
That really does that
Adam Cloninger: guys. So you gotta do it now before somebody
Chris Gazdik: takes it. I have. So, yeah. Right. Like, do not listen to the show and take that in, that, that note. ’cause I, I could, I could see that as a short book after I’m done with the, the, the ones that I have already planned. I got a lot of writing to do over the next 10 years.
Chapter one. It is what it is.
Adam Cloninger: No, no, no, no. That’d be good for a title and then he can. Complain all he wants to,
Chris Gazdik: no, it has to be the whole title then it is what it is [01:03:00] and so I’ll do what I can do. That needs to be the title. I’ll go with that. I’ll go with that. I’ll go with that. Okay. So what did they say is the c p R of mental health?
Do you remember? I do not recall. Was it the 9 8 8? That was Victoria’s, yes, that was
Adam Cloninger: Victoria’s. I thought you were just making that up just now. There’s so actually a thing you were gonna talk about. Okay.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, and and Victoria mentioned how the suicide prevention hotline has been turned into the crisis national.
So you know how you have 9 1 1 for like legal or whatever, emergencies and whatever. So we now have what we agree Neil Canada and the United States.
Yeah, both of ’em. And then other countries have other versions, I guess around the world. But ours is the number 9, 8 8. You dial it when you have a mental, emotional tough spot and you can
Neil Robinson: text.
That’s the other thing, which is kind of cool with the way society is kind
Adam Cloninger: of stay
Chris Gazdik: anonymous. You can absolutely text, you’re a hundred percent anonymous, not feel the shame. A hundred percent anonymous. No shame. And I can tell you we’ve had things like [01:04:00] this for a long time. Like I said, my very first job in the field was a, was a mobile crisis team.
And that was awesome work. And so I think really about the eighties we started getting federal funding for crisis units around the country. But now it’s been amped up and we have a 9 1 1 system called 9 8 8 and I’ve called it, it’s, it’s really cool.
Neil Robinson: Well, and I think we’ve even talked about like just literally dropping it from a 10 digit code to a three digit code.
Like there was like a 30 or 40% increase in usage. It was immediate. It was, it’s amazing how much that changes the dynamics of
Adam Cloninger: things. Absolutely. So just curious, so if I’m someplace and someone’s having some kind of mental. Trouble and I’m unsure what to do to handle a hundred percent. Nine. Eight, eight.
Someone can call that number nine. Eight eight and say, Hey, I got this person. They’re doing
Chris Gazdik: this anywhere in the country. I was on. That’s good stuff. On highway, going back home to West Virginia somewhere in, in the mountains of Virginia. Literally. And I purposely did that because there ain’t a lot of [01:05:00] stuff going on in the mountains of the Virginia State on the western.
He ran outta debt.
Neil Robinson: Huh? He ran outta debt. I have a crisis. 9 8, 8.
Chris Gazdik: I don’t know what he’s talking about. Every young y’all. It is what it is. Oh, so I’m gonna do what I could do. My my 9 1 1 9 8 8 cpr, R 9 8 8 C P r Basic mental health thing is actually, I don’t think I even got to talk about it on the show. A deep breathing and a deescalation when you’re really even in a panic attack level or just really, really freaking out or anxious, you do a deep breathing, however you wanna do it.
You know, just taking deep breaths, calms, and neurological process in your brain. And then you get five very specific things in your immediate proximity that you can see. Like I see the black part of the eye on the through therapist size cup over there. And then, then you do four or five things that you can feel.[01:06:00]
So the chair, I feel this cup that I have for my drinking, you know, I feel, you know, my shoe, whatever. And then you get three things that you can hear. It’s a distraction, right? It, it uses your sense of eyesight, hearing, feeling a drink of water to get you deescalated pull, pulling back into the moment immediately destroys even a panic attack.
That’s not like a distraction. It’s, it’s a distraction slash neurological deescalating of what you’re panicky or feeling anxious about freaking out on an airplane tripping out with a phobia, crossing a bridge, or honestly scared to death that your, your husband’s just blew up, you and, and ran out the door.
Adam Cloninger: The bridge thing’s real thing. I know somebody’s like that. Yeah. They would not go over certain bridges, huh? I know, I know. There’s some I know peaple that is like that. Oh yeah. People in phobias would
Chris Gazdik: not go over a bridge. That’s a whole, yeah. Well, yeah. Phobia. Like we drive a whole nother hour. They do?
Yeah. To avoid
Neil Robinson: the, [01:07:00] my, my wife’s bordered line on some bridges.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, really? Yeah. Oh my God. We went a little bit long today. Yeah. We need to close it down for sure. Yeah, we went long Closing thoughts, comments? Good month in review. I think July, 2023. It’s a wrap.
Neil Robinson: Yep. And then in another two months you’ll get this on the podcast.
No,
Chris Gazdik: Neil, we’re gonna get this knocked out. We’re gonna, we’re improved. We’re gonna get routine dies again. And actually, seriously, we really do release one week, one show per release. Okay. Come to YouTube.
Neil Robinson: It’s here. It’s here on
Chris Gazdik: time. Dude. Neil, we’re gonna get this together. Right, brother. Right, right. Yep. Yep.
Great. On my list. Oh my God. Let’s get one show per week released. Hey, it is what it is. Oh. But we’re gonna do what we can do. Yep. Okay,
Adam Cloninger: we gotta go. We
Chris Gazdik: gotta go. Thanks everyone. Take us outta here Adam. Do a better job. Take us out. Be well, take care. We’ll see you next week guys