In the latest episode of “March Month in Review”, where we dissect the highlights from our recent shows. From exploring the depths of loneliness and connection in “Alone in Plain Sight” with Ben Higgins (Ep265) to unraveling the secrets of genuine connections in “Do You Know How to Connect? The Bachelor Follow-Up” (Ep266), we delve into the complexities of human interaction. Plus, we dive into the importance of friendship and the pitfalls of going it alone, leaving no stone unturned in our quest for understanding. We then navigate through diagnoses and friendship dynamics, offering insights to enrich your relationships and your life.
Tune in to see the March Month in Review Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
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Episode #267 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello, this is March the 28th, and we are doing the March week month in review here on Through Therapists Eyes. So welcome to this evening nice to have you aboard. This is where you get insights about mental health and substance abuse therapy. Therapy topics usually with a panel of therapists, but that’s not the delivery of therapy services in any way on the month in review We have mr.
Neil that comes out behind the curtain. How are you, sir? I’m
Neil Robinson: good. How are you? I’m
Chris Gazdik: busy this week.
Neil Robinson: Yeah me too, but that’s okay.
Chris Gazdik: I know we’ve both talked about that So he comes out and hangs out with us to review the shows that we did this month And normally we have Adam Cloninger with us and he I would give an update to you that he is Well, he’s still dealing with his family issues You we appreciate any thoughts for your praying person, you know, that too.
You know, he’s, he’s doing well and I’m not sure if we’ll have him back at the end [00:01:00] of April or not. So that is to be determined, but update on him. So in place we have for the second time, Mr. Jack Fordenberry. And I, did you, did I do the last name? Well, I’m going to, I’m not going to lie. I was wondering if I had it right.
I won’t lie. Thanks for coming back with us. Yeah, man. Pleasure. And let me see. So, what we’re going to do today is a little bit of a different sort of month in review because in the month of March, I guess we had a weird month. As you know, if you’ve been following along, we had Ben Higgins hanging out with us for our show, and it was really cool to have him and I know you were on last week, Jack, but did you hear when we were able to talk to, to Ben, did you, did you catch that episode or not?
Jack Fortenbery: I did not.
Chris Gazdik: You did not? Okay, cool. Well, then it’ll be cool to get your Yeah,
Jack Fortenbery: sure.
Chris Gazdik: Your, your, your organic thoughts about what we would have expected and, and what we actually heard. So then we did kind of a deeper dive on the topic. So I feel like I told Jack, we were going to do a review of the review of the show, I guess.
But also all [00:02:00] the folks on YouTube Live may type in and the third show is going to be like a diagnostic show. So I told asked Neil and Jack to think in the back of their minds what unique diagnosis we might talk about to, you know, just to get an understanding of what what the the particular diagnosis is that they come up with.
So that is what we’re doing tonight. Contacted through it. Therapist eyes. com is how you connect with us. We also have first horizon still with us. Neil, why don’t you tell them about first horizon? Let’s see how you do in comparison. Now, Victoria has done with the.
Neil Robinson: Yeah, I can’t really compete with Victoria.
She’s pretty good at it. But yeah, First Horizon Bank, it’s your, your local big bank. I guess you could say they’re, they’re small and personable. They start out at Memphis with about 330 branches and they’re great cause it’s a very easy Easygoing branch to go into the one around here. It’s like you get all the services of the big banks, but you get the personality and the almost like a family environment of, you know, small banks.
So they’re great. Anything you need, they can provide. They [00:03:00] focus primarily on financial literacy, which means that when you come in and you don’t know what to do, they’ll definitely help you. And it’s great for younger, young adults or young kids that want to get started, you know, go open up account
Chris Gazdik: first to rise in bank.
Check them out. We do appreciate you for being with us. The show supporting what we do. So this is the human emotional experience. And Jack is here hanging out with us because we endeavor to figure it out together, right?
Jack Fortenbery: We endeavor to figure it out together. I like
Chris Gazdik: that. Alright. You’ve heard that before, I hope.
We say that at every show. Anyway for a lot of different reasons. So, how do we start, Neil, I guess, you know, reviewing again? Oh, I almost forgot. We’re supposed to do in Adam’s honor, we have the game that we play on the, Through a Therapist’s Eyes, Month in Reviews Adam, Adam takes us down a rabbit hole.
So, we call it
Jack Fortenbery: a literal rabbit
Chris Gazdik: hole. A literal rabbit hole. Cause it has a title, he, he, he mentioned the title, he’s like, Would this be okay if we talked about it? And I’m like, I have no idea what you just [00:04:00] said, so. I’m gonna say yes, but I don’t know, I’m nervous. Neil, you want to, you want to give a qualifier or a preamble to this or, you know, a parental warning, or you want to do a preventative thing, something?
Neil Robinson: I don’t think we need it. It may sound inappropriate, but I don’t think we need the parental warning.
Chris Gazdik: So you got a level of trust here.
Jack Fortenbery: It sounds inappropriate, but it’s fine.
Chris Gazdik: You got a level of trust here. Alright, let’s go down the rabbit hole with Jack. What you got, buddy? Alright,
Jack Fortenbery: so I’m gonna preface this by saying, So, I love paranormal stuff.
UFOs, ghosts, Bigfoot, all this stuff, right? Like ancient aliens, all that cool stuff, right?
Chris Gazdik: All of the pseudoscience stuff.
Jack Fortenbery: Pseudoscience, some, some pseudoscience, but this one’s an interesting one that I heard and I never, I haven’t heard it before and I, I was listening to something and it came up and I was like, that’s interesting.
I’m going to have to remember that for the next time on, on this show. So I’m going to read a little bit, cause I forgot, you know, it’s been weeks ago, but [00:05:00] we’re going to bring up Mel’s Hole.
Chris Gazdik: Mel’s Hole.
Jack Fortenbery: So I’m gonna, I’m gonna read a little bit about it and then I want to hear what you guys think about Mel’s Hole.
Mel’s Hole. Mel’s Hole is, according to an urban legend, a bottomless pit near Ellingsburg, Washington. And it claims about it were first made on the radio show Coast to Coast AM in 1997 by a guest calling himself Mel’s Hole. Later, investigation revealed no such person was listed as residing in that area, and no credible evidence has been given since the, that the hole ever existed.
However, the legend started on February 21st, 1997, when a man identifying himself as Mel Waters appeared as a guest on Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell, and Waters claimed that he owned rural property nine miles west of Ellensburg in Virginia. Catatus County, Washington, that contained a mysterious hole.
And according to waters, the hole had an [00:06:00] unknown depth and he claimed to have measured its depth using fishing line and a weight, although he still had not hit bottom by the time 80, 000 feet of line had been used. He also claimed that the neighbor’s dead dog had been seen alive sometime after it was thrown into the hole.
So someone took this dog, you know, it died, threw it in the hole. Next thing you know, it. Mysteriously came back to life that cemetery here. Is that oh my gosh. So so according to waters the holes magical
Chris Gazdik: I’m curious where we go with this, but I we need the entertainment tonight voice or what’s the paranormal channel voice guy?
The the deep radio voice. Can we can we throw anything on like that in? I don’t think I’ve got it. I don’t have it either. We need John
Neil Robinson: Nelson to come in. We need John Nelson. We need something.
Chris Gazdik: Okay, going with Mel’s Hole here. This is a legit, like sort of, yeah, what do you call it? A, a like there’s, like, we should go to West Virginia, the Mothman Prophecies.
You ever hear of this? So this is [00:07:00] a legend, an urban legend kind of thing that’s like, legit people believe this.
Jack Fortenbery: Yeah, it’s actually, like I said, it’s a big deal. Are you aware of Coast to Coast AM? It’s been around for a long, long time. I’ve heard of it, I
don’t listen to it much. Yeah, with Art Bell, it’s been around for a long, long time.
Usually late at night, like AM radio station. Okay, so 80,
Chris Gazdik: 000 feet of fishing line. Dog dead comes alive. Yeah, a lot of stuff. Down into this hole. Yeah, a lot
Jack Fortenbery: of claims of a bunch of weird stuff and magical properties that this hole had. But apparently, Apparently. It doesn’t exist or does it? Because there’s rumors that he sold the property to the United States government.
The government came, filled up everything. They asphalted the whole covered everything up. And so yeah, that’s, that’s Mel’s Hole. I don’t know if you guys heard that one before.
Chris Gazdik: Well, I hope I didn’t interrupt you. You sounded like you had more. Oh man, like,
Jack Fortenbery: I don’t wanna, there’s so much to it that you do your own research because it goes really deep and lasts for [00:08:00] years and years and years.
So, it’s a, it’s a pretty hefty topic. Well, what are some of the other
Chris Gazdik: things that might have happened with Mel’s Hole? I think,
Jack Fortenbery: I mean, they’ve heard
Chris Gazdik: Because now you’re starting to remember, right? Yeah, they, I think
Jack Fortenbery: they’ve heard like, like screaming and stuff coming from the bottom of this, this place and like they put microphones down and like I said, it’s, it’s a lot of big conspiracy things in terms of, like I said, supposedly he sold the land.
They covered it, the, to the United States government. They covered it up and all this. So
Neil Robinson: when, so when did they supposedly sell the land? So how long was, so it was, it was talked about in 97, when was it? And
Jack Fortenbery: I think, wow. Okay. So someone told, a Native American said, he told reporters in 2012, he visited the whole many times since 1961 and claimed the US government maintained its top secret base.
There were alien activity. I mean, like I said, it goes, it goes, it goes, it goes down [00:09:00] Mel’s hall, basically. Yeah. So, so if anybody’s interested, just do a, I
Chris Gazdik: guess,
Jack Fortenbery: do
Chris Gazdik: a Google search. So the, the, the idea is, is what do I think about this clinically in, in, in, in therapy land? Curious, Neil, I mean, do you.
Well, this is your thing. I mean, do you buy this, Jack? Do you think this is, this is, this is a thing? So,
Jack Fortenbery: so, my thought about all the, the paranormal stuff that I hear, like, there’s always, and, and it even goes back to, you know, ancient times, right? So there’s, there’s always a bit of truth in there, and it’s usually, you know, Way over exaggerated over time so there might have been something there But like to the extent that it goes like like I said it gets crazy like aliens cover ups Government like from this one hole like right probably not but right But I mean and I think there might have been money involved too So like it has a whole like con element to it as well.
I think so. Okay. All right I’m not I’m not a not a full believer [00:10:00] in Mel’s hole Okay. But it’s a very, very good story. Yeah, it
Chris Gazdik: is interesting. I never have heard of it before. Have you ever heard of this before? No, no. So what do you take? I mean, do you buy it?
Neil Robinson: I just want to know how, how big was the diameter of the hole?
Like I’m like, I’m like, is it just one of those things you just trip down? Like next, you know, you’re done. That’s it. It’s funny. Disney has a show called gravity falls and it’s just, it have a mystery shack. It’s out of some place in Oregon. It’s crazy. It’s like all sorts of urban legends and stuff, but they have a bottomless hole and they all fall into it and they just kind of just fall and fall.
And so it’s, it’s definitely, it’s just, I don’t know. I’m always intrigued by those things cause you don’t, When you think about how deep the earth is and the fact that things could happen, you know, the idea of even skiing and you fall down a glacial chasm or whatever. And it like how far down that goes, it’s like, so that’s the
Chris Gazdik: thing that these things are amazing.
You know, when, you know, I’ve seen some of the same shows, I mean, I’m drawn to them urban legend. And what is the one where you, you get. Things from [00:11:00] space looking down on the earth, unexplained earth phenomenon or unexplained pictures on earth. And then you, you know, they do research into like what caused this crazy thing.
And it’s like, you know, thousands of crabs going across the, the, the, the beach caused this crazy thing, right? It’s the, yeah, it’s. It’s really cool to dig into it. But it’s funny, Jack, because the clinical thing that I think about when I hear things like this is, is just the allure, the psychological allure that these things have, that people are so fascinated.
Jack Fortenbery: Well, my, my thing is a lot of people, a label, a lot of, especially nowadays. And I do want to address this. Like very seriously address this and I can prove it. So a lot of people today throw around the term conspiracy theorists like they’re a bunch of like nuts and yes 80 percent of them probably are but guess what there are some real [00:12:00] conspiracies that have happened That make you, you know, kind of sympathize with some of these people and be like well I mean if they could do that then they can do this kind of thing, you know
Neil Robinson: They they talk about now like the difference between a conspiracy theorist and a real person is like 30 days or something now like because of technology There’s so much stuff out there the information.
30 days. What do you mean? It takes like, you know, they go from being a conspiracy theorist or a crackpot to all of a sudden now everyone knows that that’s really what happened like a long time ago. Oh, right. It would be years of a first time The explanation comes. Yeah, prime
Jack Fortenbery: example. Project MKUltra. Are you familiar with that?
Chris Gazdik: I am not.
Jack Fortenbery: The United States government was dosing random citizens and, and other members with LSD. Right,
Chris Gazdik: right, right. Years ago.
Jack Fortenbery: 50s, 60s. Yeah, for actually A lot longer than you would think. And imagine just going on the subway or something next thing, you know, you get bumped into and you think there were a little
Chris Gazdik: bit of particulars that went into that, as I understand it, they were [00:13:00] purposely getting like parties and groups of people and studying them and them not knowing that they were participating.
So it wasn’t randomly on the street, but it, it, there were definitely some things going on that were. Super nefarious.
Jack Fortenbery: And just like, you know I don’t know if you’ve seen that movie with Tom Cruise, like, about how the United States government, you know, CIA, sells drugs to fund some of their programs, actually fact, you know, like
Chris Gazdik: There are different things that are out there.
For sure. And, and I’m glad you went there with this because, you know, when you look at the mothman prophecies or Mel’s hole is cool, it’s a new it’s to me, the, the interesting thing is, is, is how the psychology works and perception is a powerful, powerful reality that we could do a whole show on. As a matter of fact, that’d be a good show to do, to talk about just, you know, perception and how that gets organized, because I’ll tell you, fear is a big component.
that, that drives people’s exploration and full on [00:14:00] creation of layers and layers of things on top of, as you say, sometimes there’s a nugget of truth that gets completely created.
Jack Fortenbery: And would you agree that, I guess, with the The way media is today that they’ve kind of come to the peak of utilizing fear and that kind of 100
Chris Gazdik: percent And I think that it’s really almost a reflection more of the human experience Absolutely, you know because because so much now we have an interactive reality You know with the media and the different service and platforms that we’re on and we’re engaged and if you’re mirroring the human experience Then you’re going to find a whole lot of insecurity based
feelings You’re gonna find a whole lot of fear, you’re going to find a whole lot of, of, of anger and, and those types of, of, of, of twisted sort of realities.
I mean, the thought, think about it. If you can think of it, somebody has done it. Like you’ve heard that we have all heard that statement. And I think that’s like a straight up true thing. Neil, I can think of some pretty crazy things. [00:15:00] Quick, you know,
Jack Fortenbery: real, real quick though, being a psychologist, there is one specific case that I would like you to do a little bit of research in, and then maybe we can talk about it if I come on or when I come on again, next time.
Yep. Okay. Look at to the aerial school UFO incident. In Zimbabwe, Africa, it’s actually real big Harvard psychologist actually went out there, a bunch of school kids saw something and they all had the same story, which is very abnormal for kids that age
Chris Gazdik: warning. I’m a pretty big skeptic. No, no, no, no, no, no, absolutely.
And,
Jack Fortenbery: and from your point of view for the psychologist, cause he was a legit right. I regard psychologists that. Thought this was interesting, went there, and then they started trying to take away his license, and it’s very interesting. I would recommend doing some research on that. I could
Chris Gazdik: check it out.
You’ll have to text me. That’ll be
Neil Robinson: your, that’ll be the rabbit hole for next week to see what you think about that one.
Chris Gazdik: I don’t know, I won’t tell you about [00:16:00] that. It’s very, it’s
Jack Fortenbery: very interesting from a psychology point of view because It
Chris Gazdik: sounds like Peters and stuff, you know, him from Canada or whatnot.
Neil Robinson: No, that’s different. Peters is the whole nother thing in itself,
Chris Gazdik: which we had before. I will, let’s get in a little bit to our reviews. Thanks Jack for that. I appreciate, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting stuff that I think people are fascinated by. And to me, I don’t know if I came up with an answer by the way of it.
And it’s not really an answer. It’s just. Fun to kick around, you know, what’s really going on with people because you know, there’s a lot of it and how easily
Jack Fortenbery: people are influenced. It’s
Chris Gazdik: very easily influenced. And you think listening out there that you’re not, I mean, you can begin to believe that these walls in here are gray.
And if you look around on YouTube,
Jack Fortenbery: like a witness account. It’s an eyewitness accounts
Chris Gazdik: and, and jury trials and how, I mean, it’s well studied a group think in, in psychology with, with propaganda weapons of warfare. And you know, we, we did it in the American [00:17:00] revolution. There’s a, there’s so much that goes on into the human mind and people don’t realize they’re susceptible to it.
It’s the way fortune tellers do their work. I mean, there’s, there’s, there’s, there’s mentalists. Yes, mentalists and the interactionary features that they do, the cues that they take and how they influence. It’s, it’s, it’s crazy stuff. It’s psychologists have a good time. I do got to check though. I’m not a psychologist.
I’m a licensed clinical social worker. So as a, you know, we’re defensive about our stupid little territories with like marriage and family therapists. I’m a counselor. Well, I’m a clergy counselor. Well, I’m a social work counselor. That’s like
Neil Robinson: it. I’m a developer. No, I’m a programmer. I’m a. I’m a sys admin.
I’m a network engineer. And my
Jack Fortenbery: job title is a solutions architect. Oh
Chris
Jack Fortenbery: That means you
Neil Robinson: do it all, whether you want to or not,
Chris Gazdik: as, as do, as do we. So we had a show episode two 65, Jack with the bachelor named Ben Higgins. And it was really cool to [00:18:00] hang out with him. We did take a deeper dive on. The topic that he was really kind of geared on with his book alone in plain sight.
He was like season 19 or whatever of the hit series, you know, the bachelor and stuff. But I was kind of, well, I just want to, okay, let me just sort of hit you cold, Jack. I didn’t tell him listening audience, you know, that I was going to do this, but just you’re. Cold Gut feel for what would you expect?
Hearing that a therapy show has got a member of the cast the bachelor guy on to talk about You know a big topic of loneliness and feeling alone and developing connections with people and such like How would you envision that going because because you said you didn’t hear that particular episode So i’m i’m curious what your impression would be your gut feeling for that You
Jack Fortenbery: So my impression of having him [00:19:00] on a show about therapy, I think it’d be pretty interesting coming from a show that scripts the interaction between and how lonely you must feel being in that position.
Right. Right? I think that’d be an interesting conversation.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, I, I’m curious, Neil, what you, I didn’t think about that, and you were in the review, did we review with you? We didn’t you were, yeah, okay, this is the first time I get to ask you, then. Yeah, what was your initial impression of, of What to expect with this and then obviously you observing, you know, you know, the conversations with him curious what your take was
Neil Robinson: I think it was very interesting like one I think the honesty that he came through with it was very refreshing when he talked about how much it wasn’t really his thing and By the end of it, he really didn’t Enjoy it.
Like the, the, once you, once you realize it and you go through it, I think he enjoyed the experience. He said he’d do it again, but there were certain things you didn’t really get to enjoy the [00:20:00] moments after the show was done. You really didn’t get to enjoy you, you, you, you, the people that he hung out with after the fact, it wasn’t really about relationships.
It was about, Oh, because you’re the bachelor. Everything that he did with the interactions, the people he interacted with was always cheapened by the idea that they weren’t really there. That’s why they wanted to talk to him. Right, they wanted to talk to him because he was on the show. And so that was always the thing he said, but he enjoyed it.
I thought the fact that his experience, you know, he talked about with all the things they do on the bash, all the trips. That’s what his victorious question was, well, what did you like doing? And the surprising thing was, is he loved going back to his hometown. Because to me, it makes sense. He was the hero of the town.
You have a lot of people that, you know, that are now like saying your praises and you’re getting all this, like all this stuff about you, which was really cool, but then he also said Ireland was probably one of the most gorgeous places. And he loved going to a bar where you have a 20 year old and an 80 year old singing the same.
And so I would say it was a lot deeper than I thought he [00:21:00] would be. I think that was the biggest thing you take away from it because you see such a shallow, shallow part of it with the bachelor and all the stuff. But yeah, he was definitely more than I expected.
Chris Gazdik: That’s the phrase. I like the way that you said that more than I expected.
And I don’t know what I really expected. I think Jack, you were close to what I was expecting. And insofar as like here, here’s a young man, he was on a, I don’t know, in my mind, it’s kind of a crazy show, I mean, I don’t want, you know, falling in love with somebody on a show and getting married and getting engaged seems a bit crazy to me.
It’s production. It’s, well, no, but it’s actually a lot of emotion. It is a lot of emotion. Well, that’s their job. So it triggers a lot. It brings up a lot. And I realize now kind of why. I mean, he shared that they’re actually like seeing no outlets, no outside world. I mean, it’s like a six month deal where you’re alone with a small group of people and that’s all you got, you know?
And [00:22:00] so I was curious. And fascinated really with the idea of in that setting How are these relationships going to be forged what happens in the progression of getting to know and really being? You know having to connect with the whole group because I like I like survivor We we I still am one of these weird people that watches the the episodes of survivor when it comes on
because i’m fascinated with group dynamics and how how that works so I was pleasantly surprised by the depth, though, of all the thoughtfulness he’s put into, you know, this book because, you know, being alone in plain sight and connecting with other people for his generation, which kind of is y’all’s generation, a big deal.
I mean, it’s, it’s just, the, the world of Connection has absolutely flipped on its head like that in such a short 50 year period, time period. You know, my adult life, [00:23:00] you know, 50 years, it is way magically different than Little House on the Prairie, right?
Jack Fortenbery: Do you think we’ll ever see a cyclical moment going back to something like that.
Chris Gazdik: I really don’t, Jack, actually, because we have evolved and with evolving and I mean, unless you have like technology drop out on us, you know, the natural disasters and whatever, like maybe the city of Atlanta is talking about, like, you know, The Mothman Prophecies or Urban Legend or whatever, maybe, maybe if we go through something like that, yeah, absolutely, but short of that, like, no, we, we have evolved, we have things that are engaged now in the way that we operate, but there are some common truths about that that will not change because human emotional experience.
does not change that much. And so we took a deep dive on that with him and how to connect and which is why, you know, if we, which I think I want to get into some of the book quotes about my friendship book that I intend to write in the [00:24:00] future because it matches with this and I feel like we’ve already taken a deep dive on and,
Jack Fortenbery: you know, can I say, you know, just give him props of being able to take success on a TV show and then follow it up with a book or something like that’s kudos to him.
Chris Gazdik: It’s very, very impressive.
Jack Fortenbery: Yeah. Kudos, man. I give props to where, you know, where it belongs and
Chris Gazdik: I appreciate that. And, and I’m gonna, I have no problem selling it, you know, YouTube live, go to YouTube live and. By the way, you have a job. If you like our content, please click the like buttons and do the subscriptions and tell your friends, because it, it really does help us to grow the show.
But you know, you’ll see this on live. This is, this is his book alone in, in plain sight, and I’m still reading it. I’m, I’m a slow reader and actually I got into other things. I’m about halfway through. He has four sections, Jack. One is, you know, no longer alone. You know reconnected to self which is all about connecting to yourself before you connect to other people then no longer alone reconnected to [00:25:00] others part two part three is no longer alone reconnected romantically And you hear the theme right?
He’s almost like providing like
Jack Fortenbery: a guide for people to like
Chris Gazdik: part four connected to With god
Jack Fortenbery: good for him. It’s
Chris Gazdik: impressive. Seriously the subtitle
Jack Fortenbery: because I mean how many I mean, I I don’t I don’t I A bachelor watcher, but i’m like how many like, you know People that have starred in that show go off to do other things.
Chris Gazdik: Well, I think they probably do. I mean, I, I’m not, I don’t, not in the community either. I think they do. I don’t know that he’s exactly unique. We’d have to ask
Neil Robinson: Victoria. She probably knows
Jack Fortenbery: all of them. Victoria knows all of them. Yeah, yeah. But have they reached the level of being on Through a Therapist?
Right.
Chris Gazdik: I mean, you know, I want to say the subtitle though, when you’re, when you’re seen, but not known guys, you know, I, I, I, I promote things that I like, or I think are important, you know. Not because he’s the bachelor, not because there’s anything [00:26:00] special about him, but because he’s genuine and he shares stories in this con in the content of this, this writing project.
And because it’s on point, the thoughts that he shares in it are shared in this book. You know, with how to connect with people. I’m really impressed with it because it’s such an important issue and it’s, it’s really parallel with what I talk
about in therapy circles, which is why I want to get to some of my book quotes in, in friendship and how friendships work.
Because there’s, there’s a lot of parallels. So yeah, I, I’m just impressed with the young man. I don’t know, Neil, what, what, you know, last time we, we talked Victoria, John and I on our own thoughts mixed in with, you know, what he had talked about. So I don’t know what we do with this. Like I said, we’re doing a review of the review of the show.
So help me out. What, what, what are some of the things that stuck out in your mind listening the whole like month of March with our questions? Let me go with the questions first. How many times have you felt alone, [00:27:00] even in plain sight and with others? I think you listening, you’re going to be able to say like.
Freaking many so common social media does this help us and how can it actually make us feel alone? You know, we’ve talked about that on a show and how do we get connected to others? Those were the questions that we were really, you know playing around with and whatnot, right? So what do you think neo?
Neil Robinson: I think I think I want to go back a little bit to talk about will we ever go back to the way things were, which is that human actually having to have human connection, having to actually have that physical connection. And I think honestly, with the younger generations coming in, the problem we run into is those younger generations are so used to tech technology being in our faces.
That is, they can’t adapt. You know, when we were younger and we had to go to school and we actually had to talk to friends and you call them on the phone and you know, Jackie, I’m here in that generation where we still had the landlines calling people back and forth, Hey, I’ll come over to your house and go ahead.
Chris Gazdik: Landlines. Awesome.
Neil Robinson: Exactly. You know, that was around the time [00:28:00] when we kind of stopped having some landlines. And so, you know, I don’t think our society’s ever gonna go back to it, but how do we adapt to it? You know, one thing that Ben did bring up is with the social media comment, like, yeah, social media disconnects, but there’s also times where he connects to people that he normally wouldn’t, you know, you still see your friends from high school, or it gets, it gets
Chris Gazdik: demonized too much, but Yeah.
Right.
Neil Robinson: You get, but the thing is, is, and the thing he brought up that was good. That I think we have to think about is because of seeing those posts and just saying, Oh, that’s cool. Whatever. You think you are connected, which you kind of know more about them, but you’re really not connecting because you feel like you’ve already put the work in.
You’ve already kind of, Hey, I posted on your comment or I’ve said, Hey, how’s, you know, that’s cool. Picture of snow he talked about. And then you’re done. You don’t make that effort to then. Call that friend to find out or go hang out. So it’s a misnomer because you feel like you’re connecting, but all you’re doing is you’re just basically, you’re just another like, or a comment.
You’re really not building that rapport or that debt. So it’s, it is a misnomer [00:29:00] in it. It is great that you can now you’re more in someone else’s life, but because you’re in someone else’s life, you feel like you don’t need to take that time or that effort.
Chris Gazdik: It’s just crazy. Cause you’re like aware of things, but disconnected, you know, even more.
Yeah. It’s like the awareness is very different. Then connecting. That’s what my thought did when you were just listening to you. Can we be disconnected, but aware it’s fascinating.
Neil Robinson: No, I think you can. I mean, I remember being like, I went to like one or two high school parties and I was always the guy in the corner finding the other introverted guy.
And yeah, I was there and I was aware, but I was not connected, heavily not connected. Right.
Jack Fortenbery: So state that question one more time and I’ll give you a pretty pretty interesting perspective on it.
Chris Gazdik: The question is yeah I mean the journey that my brain did is is being aware of things, right? You’re aware of somebody from years ago That’s now experienced this with their kids or you become aware I mean facebook when I was on and I just don’t do it much no more made me [00:30:00] aware of somebody’s birthday Right, but i’m not connected.
So can you be aware of things and not connected nevertheless?
Jack Fortenbery: Well, so i’m You I would say I’m a more of an introverted person, love my alone time, have to have my alone time to, you know, re center myself which is the complete opposite of a musician that has to be on stage in front of a bunch of people and play all the time.
So yes, totally, like when I was playing in a group and we were touring, I think we did like 300 shows in a year one time. It was ridiculous. I’d be on stage and it was like a job, you know, like you’re on stage. You’re around, you know, a bunch of people, you know, day in, day out, but at the same time, like, I didn’t, I wasn’t connecting with anybody except, you know, my bandmates, you know, that was there.
Chris Gazdik: Right. I mean, it’s funny, like, Johnny Carson. I, [00:31:00] I, I, I’d like to use him as an example when we talk about, like, anxiety. He had social phobias and such. And, and this idea of being disconnected fits with that as well. He was alone. It’s different.
Jack Fortenbery: It’s different because. And this is the rationale I used with them, you know to explain to people like why I didn’t stick around After and yeah,
Chris Gazdik: I didn’t mean to infirm you, you know, jack has social phobia, but you know I mean, you’re probably johnny carson probably not
Jack Fortenbery: far off but yeah, like I wouldn’t stick around after shows or anything.
I would just you know, pack up and and head out and but it’s it’s always different like being looking out on people versus being Yeah, in it with people. Now the one cool thing that I thought was really interesting was the exchange of energy that you get between the kind of like a feedback loop between Attention from the [00:32:00] audience and then you’re kind of giving them something in return and that kind of cyclical thing Which I thought was pretty interesting.
Chris Gazdik: It’s a different kind of connection. Yeah, there is a connection Connects with the audience good musicians connect with the audience. There is a Connection you almost not a personal
Jack Fortenbery: steer the audience. Yeah, right in a way but also Prime example is being alone in a country where you don’t speak the language.
Oh my like in china I was in a huge city that I could probably count the number of foreigners on on like both my hands And like it’s amazing how you just learn to tune out the things around you
Chris Gazdik: the noise in
Jack Fortenbery: Yeah, like because you’re like, I don’t understand it anyway So eventually like I tell everybody I didn’t get culture shock going there I got culture shock going back coming back and I remember I was in wilmington And I was at a venue seeing some old bandmates play and I just sat on the steps outside I was like Everybody I could [00:33:00] understand everybody walking by and it was like a sensory overload because I’d shut that part off for so long
Chris Gazdik: The they’re they’re really powerful experiences jack.
I mean you’re It was funny talking to ben. We started that particular episode, whatever 265 on sharing experiences that we had where we felt alone and you have to listen back on mine at tread elvey junior high school like You and I just went back there as i’m listening to you jack, you know You I walked around an entire basketball court of kids not knowing anybody feeling just absolutely, utterly horrible, like feeling completely invisible.
It was such a painful experience because no one talked to me and I literally walked around a mass of people. Ben talked about, you know, a classroom where everyone picked A partner and he, he just wasn’t picked and everyone knows the whole high school or, you know, middle [00:34:00] school, last person picked for the sport experience.
And even, you know, athletic people feel that because of their last person picked on the team. It’s, it’s just, it, it hurts. It’s such a powerful, poignant experience.
Jack Fortenbery: And I might sound like a traditional old Southern dad here, but,
Chris Gazdik: but
Jack Fortenbery: I think those are character building experiences.
Chris Gazdik: Well, they can be. It can be they can also be traumatic that that people stay stuck with and incorporate negative thinking and self loathing and stuff around it I mean it can go either way.
Yeah, you you do need to go to the prom and and and and be rejected You do need to ask Out the girl or the guy and get rejected and deal with the pain and come over it but it’s it’s tough
Jack Fortenbery: and and i’m gonna i’m gonna bring this up because it’s very personal because i’m doing i’m dealing with this right now Because my son is about to go get To a psych, I don’t know if psychiatrist or psychologist to get an ADHD diagnosis.
Okay,
Chris Gazdik: you both [00:35:00] Psychiatrist is a medication psychologist therapy and
Jack Fortenbery: dyslexian. He also has a speech issue That’s a thing and so like these experiences he’s already And he’s you know, six years old And not wanting to go to school. Yeah, right. You know, like, I think it’s good for him to be able to overcome that, but what do I do as a parent to instill that?
Don’t let it go the negative way, use it as a positive thing, especially like with, with, you know, kids going through transformative times in their life, like.
Chris Gazdik: It’s a, it’s a really good question, gosh, or thought, and I appreciate you sharing that, Jack, because I mean, it, it’s really important that the kiddo that has, know, not real.
I want to say clinical. I want to say legitimate. Those aren’t really good words that [00:36:00] have distinguishable issues. I mean, now we say neurodivergent. I think that’s so funny the way we say that. But you know, the distinguishable issue that creates added challenge that people typically don’t have. They really need support.
They just need normalized Experience that this is something that you’re not key, right? You’re not alone buddy in, in feeling the way that you’re feeling with this challenge and, and you can, you can learn how to engage this and overcome it. And so that’s a supportive, encouraging environment. You know, that, that, that’s really important when a kid is struggling that way and Jack, I know that you’ll do that because you’re thoughtful and thinking and caring, you know, Casey and I, a therapist that I know here, she’s been on the show before.
Talked about like in hindsight, we, we can identify perpetrators of mass murder or injury events pretty much to a person identify as a common trait, not one
[00:37:00] adult individual in their life that they feel supported or encouraged by. That’s a common theme. It’s that powerful. So yeah, the struggle is real.
It can be overcome, Southern Dad, as you put it. But you really do need some encouragement and support and some caring knowledge to nudge people in a direction to learn and overcome.
Jack Fortenbery: And by Southern Dad, I meant like,
Chris Gazdik: rub some dirt in it. Yeah. You know, that kind of thing, right? Well, we do that in West Virginia.
Jack Fortenbery: Okay, yeah, yeah. Southern, I’d say West Virginia. Virginia is probably more
Chris Gazdik: southern than Florida. It’s the most northern of southern states. True. But it’s the most southern of northern states. There you go. It’s the most eastern or western states. And you could probably figure out the last. It’s the most western of eastern states.
Anyway, it’s the heartbeat of the country, brother. Beautiful. It is a wonderful land. What are you thinking, Neil? You look like you got thoughts.
Neil Robinson: I had thoughts until it went into that weird. Until it went into that. But I think that’s, you know, the one thing Ben did [00:38:00] talk about is, you know, when he talked about that, The theater group he was a part of.
And you have a lot of introverted people that talked about, like, at the end of this production that he decided to go help out, it was like his, his niece or something, and this was after the bachelor. So it was like this whole, like, you know, why am I lowering myself to the standard, but then he’s like, it’s for my niece, I’ll go do it.
But at the end of the whole situation. He talked about, you know, this community you have here. You remember this film, remember what’s going on because you need to, you know, you’re computing community builders cause you know what it means to be a community. And that’s where it’s hard when you have, you know, I was thinking about, you know, with your kid, I’m like one of the things as a parent you could try to do is if he has a friend that he really relates to, you know, have the friend come over and let them hang out more to start building someone.
Oh,
Jack Fortenbery: speaking of which, We just one of our neighbor’s kids about the same age has a speech issue as well. So they get together, there’s a comment and that’s what I’m trying to think.
Neil Robinson: So when a kid struggles, you just have to find that one person or two people [00:39:00] that they can relate to. You don’t have to. I mean, I was always, I had like one close friend growing up.
I never had more than that. That was just, I didn’t need it. I’m introverted like you and just, but. You know, you need to find that one person you can relate to. You know, my friends always have their close friend. They have that, that one or two close friends that you need that. And so my suggestion is to, you know, let your kid find that person and then nurture that relationship to give them someone right now while they have a hard time to deal with it.
You know, that’s, that’s crucial because that can be that thing. And. 10 years, you know, when they’re 18, it’s like, Oh, I made it through this tough time because I had this friend and like life wasn’t really that bad. It wasn’t as bad as I thought because I had this bright or it’s, or it could just be a distraction, but you have to find ways to help them make it through it.
So it’s not a trauma experience. It’s not a trauma event that they, that gets deep seated and worse and worse and worse. You got to help them as a young and resilient. It, the sooner you can kind of address it. Help them move past and say, Hey, this isn’t the end of everything to me. That’s, [00:40:00] that’s a lot of power.
Jack Fortenbery: Hard to do for a six year old that has
Neil Robinson: all you do to them is you just get them involved with their friends. You just get them involved and that’s all they have to care about is like life isn’t that bad because
Jack Fortenbery: well, like I said, it’s more of us. Like I feel bad because he’s six years old and really does not want to go to school, you know, like that’s,
Chris Gazdik: Because of the anxiety that creates or the turmoil that he’s toiling with a little
Jack Fortenbery: bit.
I know he said a few times he feels like people don’t like him. Like, even though he has no problem making friends, but his perception is, you know, that his
teachers don’t like him. And stuff like that. And I’m like, It’s not going to get any easier, buddy. Like, you know, it’s the easy age, actually middle school.
Yeah. This is the easiest you got it. And if you don’t want to go now, like we’re going to have problems. So I’m trying to nip that in the bud. It is,
Chris Gazdik: it is a thing, right? Like it’s, it’s, it’s, and I think Neil, you’re, you’re right. It’s it’s to me, it’s, [00:41:00] it’s chipping away and chipping away. I mean, there he’s going to have a hard time.
We do struggle, you know, but, but, but I did, but I do want to push back a little bit. Because one of the things that I think is a myth with this idea of, of, of being introverted or, you know, whatnot, and Neil, I think I heard you say, like, you know, like, I didn’t need it. I don’t want it. I didn’t need it at that point.
And, and I feel like that’s, that’s kind of a misunderstood myth about close attachments. Because I think, at the same time that you might believe that, because I know, I hear that a lot, Neil, not, not often. Picking on Neil, or you particularly, because I, but I hear people hold disbelief about themselves and Also at the same time feel, you know, loneliness and feeling alone and feeling the desperate feelings, you know, when something’s going on Because at the same time I’m sure because I know you Neil you would agree that you know It’s a universal need human need to be connected Absolutely.
Jack Fortenbery: Yeah. I mean, I was an [00:42:00] introvert.
Chris Gazdik: I had
Jack Fortenbery: tons of friends. I just one at a time, you know, exactly. There’s a
Chris Gazdik: difference in the way that we engage, but, but we have to be purposeful to seek out the attachments. And if you’re not purposeful, I can’t tell you how many times I’m dealing with the issue in therapy with depression.
That isn’t really depression. It’s just like, there’s no outlets. You’re alone in your thoughts and shits in your head and it just keeps spinning and it causes a problem. And then you believe, well, yeah, I don’t. I don’t need other people because I don’t want to deal with that pressure. I don’t want to deal with that discomfort and, and, and it can be discomfort just like your son to, to push out, you know, into a relationship with, with somebody.
Does that make sense, Neil? I mean, I’m pushing back a little bit at that.
Neil Robinson: Well, I guess the thing that I would say through that whole process is I’m like, Jack, I’m like, I only need one. Real thing. But I had friends that I could connect with. I had that friend or maybe two friends I could connect with. I know that I need someone like that.
I know I need [00:43:00] someone. I don’t need a big group of friends. I don’t need to have 500. A lot of acquaintances, right? Exactly. So, so well, and because I always have, I’ve always kind of had that friend. And then now that I’m married, I have my wife. Like it’s, there’s different, because I’ve always seemed to have that piece of it, so that’s weird that I literally
Jack Fortenbery: like synchronicity type thing.
I, I just saw a TikTok or something that was saying like, women are, like if a a, a a man loses a wife or a spouse, that a miss. then they are way less they start going downhill really quick. However, women, because they have more emotional attached, like, connections with other people, they’re not as bad.
And I thought that was interesting. I was like, probably, probably right.
Neil Robinson: Well, it’s kind of like the weird thing you get a lot of time where you get the older, older couple where when, if the, if the wife passes away first, [00:44:00] usually the men will follow shortly after. Yeah. Well, I think he was saying. With the broken heart syndrome.
Right. Exactly. Where, where if the guy passes away, the woman can usually go longer. Well, and I think what he was saying
Jack Fortenbery: was the person in the video I was watching is most men. Say like their wife is their best friend, you know, especially the older they, or you get into the marriage versus women have multiple people like that.
They, they talk to,
Chris Gazdik: you know, it’s funny, Jack. I, I push back and get very curious about some of that as well. And I, and I think there might even be some studies or some things that people have done to, to, to look at some of that type of a thing. And there may be, you know, statistical correlations and numbers that, that people have tabulated, but, but what I’ve really thought a lot about is, is, I don’t know how to do this without doing a dive on it.
You know, the emotionally focused therapy model that I operate with a lot where people that come from close [00:45:00] attachments operate from
abandonment where you pursue or engulfment where you withdraw and Patterns get developed in your life as it relates to that particular stance that you take. So, you know, engulfment folks tend to want their space and abandonment folks tend to want to be close and reach out to connect because we’re trying to feel emotional recovery and emotional safety.
So the question becomes extroverted and introverted, if you will, like, what are we trying to do when you’re, when you’re, you know, Unsettled or uncomfortable or in a triggered state or something’s going on with you Abandonment folks will reach out pursue to gain closeness for safety Engulfment folks will withdraw and go into their own self, you know, to create that safety and, and that creates life patterns.
So, less than gender, way more in how you answer and operate on that level.
Jack Fortenbery: Is that what he’s talking about in his book though? [00:46:00] Right? You have to know yourself, so you have to withdraw, withdraw first, right, right, right, right, before you can seek connection with it.
Chris Gazdik: Right, you have to understand, yeah, no, it’s an excellent point.
Reconnected to self first, no longer alone, part one, reconnecting. To yourself is huge because you can’t understand how to reconnect to other people if you don’t know That process within yourself because you’re right people will sit there and think I don’t need people. I don’t like people That’s another one.
I hear neil all the time. I don’t even like people. I don’t want to deal with people I had a guy swear to gosh He wanted to be Sell all of his life stuff, buy a freaking boat, go down to the Caribbean, and just sail from ship to ship to shore to shore. I am down. I’ve been
Jack Fortenbery: trying to get my wife to be like, Honey, if we ever get rich, private island, see everybody later.
I’ll talk to you later. When I talk to you, I love picking
Chris Gazdik: into that stuff, Jack, with people. Maybe you [00:47:00] and I can dance because I will blow up that myth. That is so alluring to you. The thing is, is that’s me. It is glorious for like a week, a month or a year or a decade. I am telling you, I will lay everything I own ever owned or will own on the idea that.
At some point, and it ain’t a year, it’s relatively close. Maybe if I was younger at this
Jack Fortenbery: age, I think it’s, I think I would live the rest of my days. Let’s dance a little bit. But I would have my family with me. Do you know the
Chris Gazdik: show Alone? Okay. Alone is a really cool show that, that, that I laugh inside myself and it demonstrates this really, really well.
It is a show where you get like, I think 500, 000 if you’re the last last person standing. They take you in obscure locations and you are there. These are a bunch of survivalists, though they have like five pieces of equipment or whatever. It’s to sustain life and [00:48:00] living and, and they just stay there as long as they can.
Alone, like you have a camera that is your own and you record yourself and they, they come in, they check on you. So the producers come in and see what’s going on and then leave like once a week or something like that. I mean, you are a alone and people are always. Tripping out even the most engulfment based personality and I can, I can tell cause I’ve thought about this a lot and looked at it and look at the way they’re operating.
People repeatedly suggest over and over again, how surprised they are at missing their face. family and missing the relationships and missing their attachments and missing their friends and their life. We’re sure. And then there was one that they did where there was family members, two people, like a couple, you know, brother and brother, a father and son.
There was a husband and wife that did this same thing and they still struggled and, and, and they’re not [00:49:00] able to get past about three months.
Jack Fortenbery: Yeah, I can’t guarantee if you got me enough money to buy my own private island I would live the rest of my life happy with my family.
Neil Robinson: Yeah
Jack Fortenbery: Like not
Neil Robinson: so you would still have someone
Jack Fortenbery: yeah, not alone.
I’m not gonna go to like I’m not gonna be cast away You know like but even then Wilson
Chris Gazdik: like I’m not it’s just a couple of people. It’s not enough for the human psychology I submit you’d probably go psychotic Seriously. Like, I’m not making a joke. Well,
Jack Fortenbery: I don’t see anybody. Like, you guys are probably most people I’ve seen in a while.
I’m fine. But
Neil Robinson: if I could never have to do a Zoom meeting ever again, I’d be pretty happy. Dude. Dude.
Chris Gazdik: Alright. We have very little time left. I’m gonna give you a choice. I hope you choose one way or to the other. Well, why don’t you choose it? Well, no, because I promised you. Okay, well, why don’t you flip it?
Jack Fortenbery: Phrase the one that you want a little differently. That [00:50:00] happens naturally with
Chris Gazdik: perception. I got a couple of book quotes that I think are cool to kind of kick around and we could do it kind of quick. taking a dive on a diagnosis thing seems kind of tough at this point, but there are some cool diagnostic stuff that I can definitely get into for, you know, five, 10 minutes.
That would be kind of fun to kind of blow up myths or, or, or stereotypes was part of our show with, with all the things, because, you know, people use our buzzwords. They talk about our diagnoses stuff now because awareness is out, which is super cool, but they, they, Optotypes totally blow up the way it was intended or what it really is.
So, is there a diagnosis like that or a word like that that’s, that’s on your all’s mind that we spent a couple minutes on? Or should we do a couple of book show quotes?
Neil Robinson: Spontaneous combustion. How about that? Is that a good diagnosis? That
Chris Gazdik: is not a psychological diagnosis. Okay, right. That’s, that’s, that’s a good example of one.
Disassociative identity disorder. [00:51:00] So which, which, which way, Neil, make, make, make the call. D I D for a couple of minutes or a couple of quotes. Let’s see. What time is it?
Neil Robinson: Let’s do a quick thing on DID, because I’m intrigued by that one.
Chris Gazdik: Fascinating, right? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, Dissociative Identity Disorder, there is even a certain amount of intrigue, doubt full on distrust, even in my professional circles about disassociative identity disorder, which used to be called multiple personality disorder.
Okay. We’ve renamed it with the new diagnostic and statistical manual. Hey, flip the mic out and give me that book. If you would the purple book, cause I’ll, I’ll look at it. As, as we, as we go with this. So this is in my view, thank you, a, a legit, real thing. [00:52:00] Okay. I, I have colleagues that really enjoy working with this particular diagnosis.
And it’s, it’s tricky because It gets way kind of overcooked, meaning I feel like we get into the, the fascination of what happens with the, the psychological experience and I’m fearful that as professionals we can conflate it, meaning make it bigger of a deal than it is. So there, that is a professional feeling there.
Isn’t it like extremely rare too? It, it is rarer, I don’t know if I want to go extremely rare though, and here’s why. If you conflate it and you think about like, you know, you’ve ever heard of Sybil, right? No? Oh, wow, have you ever heard of Sybil? I’ve heard of Sybil. Okay, this was a groundbreaking case that was, created our understanding of [00:53:00] multiple personality disorder where they mapped out her, her, her whole personality was a particular patient of whatever doctor and, and it was a famous case that was a basically a case study turned into a book and, and she had several personalities that would come out, alters is what we call them now, right?
And yeah. So, back to my concern, when, when we make this bigger than it can be, you know, you can have like mapped out 50 personalities and all those things take over and you get splitting and, you know, and when, when really what it is related to is trauma and the psychological response that people have with an identity.
Jack Fortenbery: Do you know how often it is that patients with DID, like, is a good majority of them some form of child? Maybe if there was a most likely a childhood trauma that they’re then distancing themselves away From which makes them act like a child. So[00:54:00]
Chris Gazdik: it’s such. Oh, yeah, we get it We gotta go for we gotta come back to this. This will be a fun. I’m sorry, man You should probably like I know right
Jack Fortenbery: stick like a few episodes together with we could go into some
Chris Gazdik: crazy stuff Yeah, indeed because the the the answer is is is Yes. Particularly for the more involved mapping of somebody’s system is probably child, but remember a little bit ago, I said, if you don’t conflate it to being more dramatic than what it is, I think it’s a whole lot more common than what we would really kind of think and doesn’t have to be just a kid level thing.
Think about this. There is
Jack Fortenbery: like an amnesia thing where they, that’s where I was going.
Chris Gazdik: Exactly. There is a very normal and accepted and common experience to traumatic experiences, and it’s called repression, and that’s exactly what you just said. We have fugue states, where people, you know, have a lottery, and they freak out, and they just literally enter into [00:55:00] the state where they don’t know who they are.
It’s like they, they trip out and you find them wandering, you know, it’s called a fugue state. We have repression where you literally just do not remember if something happened or not. Right? That’s, those are, that’s a common reality. Even more common is something called disassociation. When you disassociate, we all do this, right?
So when you drive to work every day, Jack, you. Take a right out of your neighborhood, go down the road, take a left, go down the road. So you take a right, you go down the road, you take a left, you take a right, you go down the road. Every day, you go that and do it. And then on the weekend, you go to the grocery store, and you go out and take a right, you go down the road, you take a left, and you’re like, whoa, I went the wrong way.
Because you disassociated, and you’re going to work. Isn’t that a form of a stroke? I don’t think so. No, it’s just Oh no, I’m thinking about like
Jack Fortenbery: when you’re driving down the highway, and there’s the input is the same, and then you just
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, that, that’s, it’s just, it, it’s not a stroke, you know, it’s I think it’s
Jack Fortenbery: similar in the way the brain functions in terms of Your
Chris Gazdik: brain just goes into different states, [00:56:00] almost, of subconsciousness.
So, Dissociative Identity Disorder is a powerful example of this, where my colleagues that are, work with this more, you know, have literally seen a right handed person go into an alter personality and write flawlessly left handed. Like, there’s crazy stuff like that. That is real and, you know, demonstratable.
That’s a little bit more rare, I suspect. But what’s really, really more common is this reaction to trauma. And that’s where I’ve described a little bit, but Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s a crazy world, D. I. D. Going
Jack Fortenbery: back to my weirdness real quick before we start ending this thing up. How many, how many people do you think have been injured or killed or whatever via exorcism because of D.
I. D.?
Chris Gazdik: Say, say that again. How many people have killed [00:57:00] and exercised or whatnot? Yeah, like like
Jack Fortenbery: mistaken like that, you know for d. i. d
Chris Gazdik: I get you I get you because I know there is
Jack Fortenbery: that one case where the priest like like killed the I think we studied about this in abnormal psych to be honest like where they Rolled they thought they were doing an exorcism and they rolled the girl up and she died end up dying
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, you know back when we used to burn witches at the stake, you know, there’s mental health and diagnostics that are a part of that If not like You know in medieval times like full on 100 percent of the time that was that are pretty close I would argue but that’s just an opinion Yeah is the question the answer to that?
I I think you know, I mean there was there was traumatic experiences that people had They had basic psychological reactions to these traumatic experiences That weren’t understood and anytime something’s not understood. What do you think we do with that jack? You know, it’s not pretty [00:58:00] and and so Yeah, I mean Unfortunately, we just didn’t know what was going on with people that were really psychologically injured and acted oddly, and we just assumed that was demons.
Well, the good thing now, I
Jack Fortenbery: think, since that thing, like, people who are called in, you know, from the church to do exorcism have to make them see. Some form of psychiatry psychology. Oh, yeah, we we have protocols now. I
Chris Gazdik: mean we have knowledge we have because
Jack Fortenbery: of that case I believe if i’m not
Chris Gazdik: Is that so? I would believe that if that were the if you were to say that that makes sense Because now we do know and we screen things out and you know, we have mental health professionals that are with the catholic church I believe that do you know some of this type of stuff because exorcism that’s another one right?
Is that real? You know, some people have questions and doubt you talk to the priest. They say literally of that. Yeah. Yeah And, and it fits into my worldview. Neil, what are you, what are you hearing? Let me just tap into your thoughts here. [00:59:00] Disassociative identity disorder. What, what says, what says you hearing this?
Neil Robinson: No, I think it’s good. I mean, it kind of, we talked about the alter ego book the other day. And we, we kind of, you kind of, To me, kind of poopoo the idea of the alter ego that you create different personalities for different purposes. So I guess the question I would say through the whole thing is your D ID goes back to kind of the biggest deciding factor is the, the loss of remembering between the different, different personalities or the different things.
Cause you know, As you talked about your band, when you’re on stage, you kind of probably had a different personality because you had to overcome that introvertedness and you basically would go that way. Cause once you got off the stage, it was different. And it flipped those switches. Now, when you get the DID,
Jack Fortenbery: the same thing, right?
So the
Neil Robinson: idea we talked about, and one of our things, the alter ego, where you create alter personalities to where you basically in certain situations, it al
so the idea is. Well, it’s not [01:00:00] as clinical as a D I D, but it’s still the same.
It’s a coping mechanism you create to help you survive. It’s not the extent of losing track of yourself, but it’s still the same idea just to a lesser extent, very watered down. And so it’s very interesting is, would you say that the deciding difference between something like having different. Alter egos versus DID is the fact that the complete disconnect of personality A versus personality B.
You can’t remember personality, personality A doesn’t know personality B. I think
Jack Fortenbery: sometimes they’re aware of each other and sometimes they’re not.
Chris Gazdik: Correct. Correct. It, it, it moves around, I think, particularly, you know, when you, the, the, the term alters are a part of disassociative identity disorder treatment.
Altered personality Is an adopted term, which is what I think we were talking about more, Neil, than, than the, the alter personalities in D. I. D. or personality says it’s, it’s, it’s actually sort [01:01:00] of two different things that were, the words were hijacked. And I think people talk about it,
Neil Robinson: right? But when you look at the real, when you break it down, it’s completely different.
And speaking
Jack Fortenbery: of, I think the more rare cases when it does get that extreme, there’s always like a, It seems like a protector of another, like when they’re, there’s,
Chris Gazdik: there’s one of the personalities can, can do that. And yeah, let’s listen to the criteria. And I actually haven’t read this in a long time. So I’m curious in a new one, cause I started out with other diagnostic manuals, but I’m purposely doing the second.
Symptom that we look for first rather than the first the second one. Recurrent gaps in the recall of everyday events, important personal information and or traumatic events that are inconsistent with ordinary forgetting. So again, I I, I read the second one first because that’s one of the things I said, right?
Like it is a very common like memory gap, repression protection mechanism. With really crappy events. That’s part of this. A
Jack Fortenbery: great example of this and a film that you can go out and watch. [01:02:00] And I’m, I know he’s very familiar with it. Moon Knight. Oh yes. That’s very interesting. Go watch that Disney plus show.
Like he actually like chain himself to the bed because, and put sand down. So he, cause he loses. He goes into another altar. Yeah
Chris Gazdik: and wants to catch it or whatever. Yeah, like yeah Yeah, it’s it. Yeah, I can imagine. I wonder how legitimate it is in the way they present it, but it sounds interesting
Neil Robinson: That’s a messed up comic by the way
Chris Gazdik: So the first the first set we look for is disruption of identity characterized by two or more distinct personality states Which may be described in some cultures jack as you said as an experience of possession the disruption An identity involves marked discontinuity in a sense of self.
So it has to be that and a sense of agency again, controlling oneself accompanied by related alterations in affect, behavior, consciousness, memory, perception, cognition, and or sensory motor [01:03:00] function. So there’s a lot. It really comes in and sort of takes over in the personality. So that’s one and two, the third symptoms cause clinically significant distress.
Yeah. And the rest is like, you know, basic things that we look for. So the first one really kind of gets at driving at the intricacies of this.
Neil Robinson: And to really, to dive into it, you have to go long term with them because you could easily have people probably play it off, try to say, I have it. So you have to go long term to make sure that there’s a real disconnect, right?
You have to really see that like, so there’s, this isn’t something you can just do a quick test and be done with it. This is like a long, long term thing to really track
Chris Gazdik: trauma in particular, if there’s any significance of it, it’s probably significant trauma experiences. It’s not like you don’t, you don’t split your whole personality out with.
with simple circumstances that you go through. I mean, you’re molested by your uncle, age three to 13 in the dark. Yeah. It’s there’s a lot of trauma, trauma that people get [01:04:00] into that, that create this. So yeah, that’s an interesting one. Good, good choice. I’m glad we, we went in that direction, but it is pulling right out.
And I was just like, D I D it is time to wrap up Jack. Thanks for hanging out with us. Able to come back. Maybe if we’re, we, we need to just holler. Okay. We’ll keep that in mind. It’s not like you guys are far away. Fantastic. Well guys this has been the month in review for March. We will see you next week.
Stay well and be well. We’ll talk to you
then.