In this episode, we explore the profound impact of losing yourself in caregiving roles, relationships, parenting, and marriage. Have you ever felt like you’ve lost touch with your own identity? This conversation uncovers the signs of emotional burnout and identity loss, particularly in codependent relationships, parenting, caretaking, and long-term partnerships. We discuss practical strategies to reclaim your sense of self without sacrificing your supportive roles. From setting boundaries to reigniting personal passions, this episode offers a roadmap to prevent the mental and emotional toll of losing yourself while maintaining healthy connections with those you love.
Tune in to see the Danger of Losing Yourself Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- Have I ever felt like I’ve lost touch with my own identity or needs in a relationship or caretaking role?
- In what areas of my life do I feel the most pressure to prioritize others over myself?
- How can I begin to reclaim a sense of self while still being supportive to those I care for?
Links referenced during the show:
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/marriageandfamily
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
Audio Podcast Version Only
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Episode #289 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] This is through a therapist’s eyes and we are coming to you on, what month is this? I am, I am a little, September, September 19th, 2024, September the 19th.
John-Nelson Pope: Three months until 2025 and
Chris Gazdik: you said fall is is on Sunday on Sunday I made it through the summer of 2024 This is through a therapist eyes where you get insights directly from a panel of therapists in your home or the car But not delivery of therapy services in any way The three content questions that we have today on the topic the danger of losing yourself So think about this through the show.
Have you ever felt like you’ve lost touch with your own identity or needs in a relationship or caretaking role? In what areas of my life do I feel the most pressure to prioritize other over myself? And then [00:01:00] lastly, how can I begin to reclaim a sense of self while still being supportive to those I care for?
And I like that third question because you need to think about that balance, right? Between your priorities of yourself and priorities of others. So, we do start this YouTube Live Thursday. At about 615 to 630, but you can also find us on the Spotify’s, the Apple somebody told me today they were listening to our heart radio.
That was kind of cool. But John, what do they got to do when they listen?
John-Nelson Pope: They need to put down five stars. Five stars for writing so that we’ll go to the top like
Chris Gazdik: Reviews the writing of reviews on Apple pod. No. No
John-Nelson Pope: you you need to do that as well and talk about how fantastic we are
Chris Gazdik: Okay.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well when you write a review you’re also Giving us five stars Like that, that happens at the same time, same time.
So it
John-Nelson Pope: has more power if you write some nice [00:02:00] comments.
Chris Gazdik: Listen, that is your job if you like the content, really help us out. Subscribe, get a YouTube subscription and tell a friend, help us to grow the show. So contact it through a therapist eyes. com website. This is the human emotional experience, which Victoria, we do what with that
Victoria Pendergrass: To figure out together.
You sound
Chris Gazdik: like you’re raising your voice as questioned at the end of the sentence.
Victoria Pendergrass: Cause I’m not sure if I got that right. Cause
John-Nelson Pope: she’s a millennial. That’s what they do. They talk like this.
Chris Gazdik: Oh John. Everything’s a question. Did I get it right? Everything’s a question. You got it right. You got it. You got it right.
Absolutely. We do have, speaking of YouTube, a new YouTube subscriber. Very happy to welcome Sally Hampton that joined on. And Neil has helped. Hi Sally.
Hi.
Chris Gazdik: Hello, Sally. Hi, Sally. Neil has helped me learn that if you don’t have your settings on YouTube set towards public, we can’t give you a shout out because we don’t see it.
So if you want that, then let us know by changing [00:03:00] your your settings to public. Did I say that right, Neil? He shakes his head. I’m banging with the technology today. I did website design today. So proud of you. Really? I was banging on the website yesterday. So proud of
Victoria Pendergrass: you. Neil. Okay. .
Chris Gazdik: Yes, sir. So, John, how do we introduce this current event that I wanted to put a minute towards, kind of quick.
’cause we got a lot to get to.
John-Nelson Pope: Well, we kind of, we, we kind of discussed this a little bit in terms of rules for who
Chris Gazdik: found this? Did you find this or did I I don’t remember. We just,
John-Nelson Pope: I think we both came to
Chris Gazdik: it. Was it about the same? About the
John-Nelson Pope: same, yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. Yeah. It, there, there. So. This is article about rules, right?
To newborn babies and so there’s, there’s one thing that I’m very excited about in this and there’s the thing that I’m kind of like, I don’t know. I’m concerned. I guess I’m going to say I have concerns about basically what this is. We have a link if you want to check it out. But This is a coaching world, John.
I don’t know, man. [00:04:00] Coaches have a lot of stuff.
John-Nelson Pope: It’s a wild, wild West. We’re talking about like life.
Victoria Pendergrass: It really is. Yeah. Life coaching. Okay.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. And it is absolutely the wild, wild West, man. You get anybody of anybody gets a certification or just calls themselves a coach. I want to highlight there is no oversight body such as licensing boards or even certifications.
Other than people that want to offer a certification for any particular group, which just means you have a training, you took it, and you paid money to that organizer, and you become a coach. Now, I don’t mean to condemn that. There’s lots of great stuff out there for coaching.
John-Nelson Pope: Go to Fitness, Planet Fitness, and you can get a certified trainer.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Okay, but now physical trainers are different. They do have licensing. They do have boards to protect the public
Victoria Pendergrass: State test and things like that To [00:05:00] be a
Chris Gazdik: physical trainer. I think so
John-Nelson Pope: I don’t think you have to be a coach
Chris Gazdik: like I could be wrong about the physical trainers But i’m not about the coach you do not Yeah, so bottom line you really really really need to be careful about material suggestion Things that come from coaching sometimes because it’s not really soundly based in science There’s no evidence based process that they go through to Say what they’re saying is good.
It’s just I think it’s good. So i’m gonna write a blog you’re gonna read it and you’re gonna believe it.
Victoria Pendergrass: I have a client who’s employer, hired an executive coach.
Chris Gazdik: Well, they’re great again I’m not down in coaching.
Victoria Pendergrass: Coaching can be great. Right, no, I do think there, yeah, I think there are some positives to it.
We just, I think you’re saying just to be careful if you’re seeking, if that’s what you’re seeking, be careful in who and how you pick someone. Yes. Because. Be mindful. [00:06:00] Be demure.
Chris Gazdik: Be mindful. Because there’s things that can be out there, like what we found, John, right? Like these suggestions for, for newborn baby care.
Right? Is that what it
Victoria Pendergrass: is? I don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. This is all new to me. Yes.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. This is newborn baby care.
John-Nelson Pope: I would
Chris Gazdik: agree. As suggested by a coach who created these ideas.
John-Nelson Pope: A perfect family. It looks like a husband and a wife and a little kid. That’s on their website and they’re all beautiful.
And then they give these very, I, or she does rather, the coach gives these very, I would say rules that kind of would alienate other family members.
Chris Gazdik: Good. For sure.
John-Nelson Pope: Definitely. By saying you can’t.
Chris Gazdik: Victoria, here’s some suggestions. Yeah. I’m so lost right now. It’s okay. No, you’re fine. I’m cluing you in.
Here’s some of the [00:07:00] suggestions that we’re talking about.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay. Please
Chris Gazdik: keep your face away from the baby. You know, we know they’re darn kissable, but. You breathe and you kiss and it causes you know, they don’t danger
Victoria Pendergrass: They don’t have the same immune system as us as full grown adults. Do please
Chris Gazdik: refrain from the use of perfume cologne and smelly things I’m wondering I don’t know if that relates to right guard or not.
Right. If
Victoria Pendergrass: that relates to what?
Chris Gazdik: Right guard. Deodorant. That’s actually a deodorant. It’s a deodorant. Oh, yeah. I think I will. All visitors need to wash their hands and, and prevent spreading germs. You know, I guess.
John-Nelson Pope: That’s not the killer.
Chris Gazdik: It’s not the killer one. Okay. Keep going. Keep going. All visits are prearranged.
Very limiting towards juggling sleep cycles and all this. Drop ins are not okay. Make arrangements at a local hotel, you have to go to a hotel.
John-Nelson Pope: You can’t stay with family? No. Okay, you can’t do that.
Chris Gazdik: No, it’s against the rules. So
Victoria Pendergrass: wait, I’m
Chris Gazdik: Stay tuned. Holding babies [00:08:00] are not to be done. You, you, you, very careful about doing the holding of the baby.
You don’t take pictures and you don’t post them on social media.
John-Nelson Pope: I can understand social media.
Chris Gazdik: You be patient with the parents because they’re learning and you don’t tell them what to do. So there’s no direction. From anybody.
Neil Robinson: Okay. Okay. Really fast summary before John has a conniption fit. I’m still kind of the one where he said, do not hold the baby.
It’s don’t look at your phone while you’re holding the baby. Like, don’t be distracted when you’re holding the baby. It’s not that you can’t hold the baby.
Victoria Pendergrass: Okay. Chris,
Neil Robinson: not,
Victoria Pendergrass: I was like,
Neil Robinson: freaking out on him. Like, no, no, hang on. It’s. Don’t hold the baby and other devices. Make sure you’re focused on the baby while you’re holding them.
We ask that
Chris Gazdik: when holding baby phones and other devices are placed to the side and enjoy the time with the baby. It’s not
Neil Robinson: no holding the baby. I
Victoria Pendergrass: don’t really see a problem with anything on that list.
Chris Gazdik: Oh
John-Nelson Pope: God. [00:09:00] Oh,
Victoria Pendergrass: okay. The one. Okay. So the one that you mentioned that the whole hotel thing, I think. It’s I think that is situation to situation I’ll use I use my personal life as an example a lot my personal life I live in a my husband and I live in a three bedroom two bath house
John-Nelson Pope: Where plenty of family can stay with you?
Victoria Pendergrass: No where? my So I will say after I gave birth we came home. We had a day Let’s keep
Chris Gazdik: this segment short.
Victoria Pendergrass: That next day my mom did come spend the night with us and helped us. However, if you’re coming and you’re planning on staying more than one night after I’ve just given birth and I live in a three bedroom, very tiny house, like, yeah, I’m gonna ask that you either find other sleeping arrangements and you can come to my house throughout the day.
Cut this real short. Like, I don’t think [00:10:00] it’s,
Chris Gazdik: Well, here’s the question, Victoria. What about a Spanish family that has three generations living in the home together? These roles are going to be functional or problematic?
Victoria Pendergrass: Again, I think it’s case by case.
Chris Gazdik: What’s that?
John-Nelson Pope: I think it’s white privileged. I think it’s people that are privileged That can do this.
I don’t think
Victoria Pendergrass: it’s necessarily say if those people are already living in the house when you have a baby, okay I think it more means like extended people who do not already called that home residence Then that’s where it applies.
Chris Gazdik: I
Victoria Pendergrass: like if I already use this if my parents already live with me fine, whatever
Chris Gazdik: Here’s the thing victoria.
Yeah, right like let’s Hold on. We’re not going to get into a debate on every different item. The point here is you need to be careful about suggestive lists or practices because coaching, it can lead to a lot of misdirection.
John-Nelson Pope: It can [00:11:00] alienate you from your family members, your immediate family.
Chris Gazdik: It’s in all areas of coaching.
Executive coaching can be helpful. But you have to be careful. There’s non evidence based stuff that is printed. There is there’s very opinionated based Concepts victoria you and I might be able to debate any given reality But there’s a danger inherently in putting material out to the public Where you’re not really qualified as determined by a professional.
Yeah, I would say you were licensure
Victoria Pendergrass: I would say you, I would take that list with a grain of salt. I’m not going to,
Chris Gazdik: people take it as gospel. That’s the
John-Nelson Pope: problem. A coach is an expert. No, a coach is not an expert. An expert would be someone that
Victoria Pendergrass: license to license training
John-Nelson Pope: has the 3000 hours has all the, has the continuing
Victoria Pendergrass: education.
Yeah, I get, okay. So I think. Ultimately, [00:12:00] I was very confused because we kind of just dove into this topic and I didn’t really know where we were going with this. Had I known that in the front, I wouldn’t have argued all that other stuff. I get, you’re using this article as an example for why we should not take everything a coach says.
As the gospel or therapist
Chris Gazdik: for that matter necessarily in a blog, I mean, there’s lots of opinions and such that are out there. You need to be careful about your source.
John-Nelson Pope: Yes. And, and, and we’re not for the delivery of therapy services at this time. Right. Yeah. We’re
Chris Gazdik: talking our own opinion sometimes on this show.
It’s a good point, John. So, yeah, I mean, the point that I liked. Is it’s cool that younger generations are becoming aware of the whole social media thing There is a request that i’m asking you. Please don’t post about our private yeah now it’s
Victoria Pendergrass: now it’s very common for Like for people to put like little stickers over their like I have someone who I went to college with [00:13:00] Her kid is I think a year old and they have not posted their child’s face on You social media at all.
If they post a picture and the baby is in it, they put like a sticker or like an emoji, like over the face.
Chris Gazdik: We really need to get off this. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: But anyways, I do, I do see your point of taking these things with a grain of salt. If you need to get a second opinion, do your research, see what there is that says about, don’t just take one list.
As like, or don’t take a video with On that you see on Tik Tok with some bullet points on what to do as like horrible as like Tik Tok
John-Nelson Pope: you you you do little baby yodas and things like that.
Chris Gazdik: It’s a dangerous place. It’s a dangerous Yeah, it can
Victoria Pendergrass: be yes
Chris Gazdik: meant to be fun. It’s meant to
Victoria Pendergrass: be entertainment, right?
Well, and A lot of times, let’s, we need to get out of here. Look, we could have made a whole episode about this. Be
Chris Gazdik: [00:14:00] careful about what you’re reading and what you’re believing. That’s the whole, that’s the bottom line. Okay. Because you can lose yourself in these things. How’s that for a
Victoria Pendergrass: transition guys? Okay.
Chris Gazdik: Listen these questions are important to think about when we’re talking about losing yourself. We’re talking about. Like this idea where your own identity, your own style gets kind of lost in a maze sometimes. So I want you to think about listening. Have you ever Felt like you’ve lost touch with your own identity or the needs that you have in a relationship or a caretaking role in what areas of your life.
Do you feel the most pressure to prioritize others over yourself? You probably have felt this before. I would trust it’s pretty universal. And I like the third question is especially how can you begin to reclaim a sense of yourself while still being supportive to those that you care for? That’s the balance.
Ultimately, that we’re after. [00:15:00] But reclaiming that balance sometimes needs to needs to happen. So what do y’all think about this idea losing yourself like what is what do we I mean This is something that people say a lot like well, i’ve heard it more
John-Nelson Pope: from from my female clients Then from male clients.
Okay. Anecdotally you’re observing. Yeah. Just anecdotal. I don’t have any statistics on it. Statistics on it. Statistical statistics. Sorry. So I don’t have data, but the thing is, is that I see that that seems to have entered into the conversation in the last couple of years, especially.
Chris Gazdik: I don’t know that I buy a gender connection, John, actually.
John-Nelson Pope: Well, but I, I haven’t heard that. Well, no, I’m not going there. What I’m saying is, is that I’m hearing more of this losing yourself in the last couple of years.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, you see a trend of, I see a trend increasing. Okay.
John-Nelson Pope: Okay. Okay. I see what you’re saying. So I [00:16:00] think it’s hustl
Chris Gazdik: Any guess as to why you see a trend changing?
Maybe.
John-Nelson Pope: I think that we are so busy now that it’s hard for us to balance our lives. And so. It’s easier to lose one’s self and it, especially in areas that have counted in tremendously in terms of like relationships. So I see more of that.
Chris Gazdik: So what do we mean by this then? If you’re seeing more of it, this happens, we lose ourselves.
Like, it’s kind of a weird theme that people talk about regularly, but losing your identity mean about it. Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. And that’s nebulous. I think that’s the problem. I don’t, I, I don’t think there’s a definition about losing oneself. So let’s do it today.
Chris Gazdik: Losing yourself refers to the gradual neglect of personal identity, desires, and emotional [00:17:00] needs due to prioritizing others.
Often in relationships parenting caregiving. We’re going to talk about the different areas marriage as well where this can happen I think it’s a pretty decent definition. Yeah, I think it’s real good Losing or a gradual neglect of your identity your desires and emotional needs Emotional needs are a weird concept kind of as well But we actually talked about needs versus want recently.
It’s a good show to review a couple episodes
Victoria Pendergrass: back
Chris Gazdik: five six episodes back Yeah, I mean, what does that mean to you, Victoria? Do you think about this topic much in therapy with people?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, and of course I’ve had people that I’ve talked about it with this week. Of course! I
Chris Gazdik: swear I do not do this on that main just one person comes
Victoria Pendergrass: to mind who feels like they, you know, At their age still don’t know who they are that might be more of an identity like identity thing to
begin with but yeah, I think I like, you know, a lot of [00:18:00] new moms a lot of New relationships a lot of old relationships
John-Nelson Pope: midlife crisis males and females.
Oh Literally had someone
Victoria Pendergrass: today asked me me if they were going through a midlife crisis because of the issue that they brought up. Yeah. And we talked through that.
Chris Gazdik: John, that’s a really good point. As a matter of fact, I might even suggest that’s on the top of the list.
John-Nelson Pope: Well, and I’ve heard midlife crisis more from, from males and maybe losing myself from females of that similar age.
Chris Gazdik: Interesting.
John-Nelson Pope: So, I think it’s probably saying very related.
Chris Gazdik: So, from men, you hear midlife crisis and from women, you hear, you know, I lost myself. Right. It’s really about the same time of life. So, it’s a terminal.
John-Nelson Pope: But
Victoria Pendergrass: they mean that they are basically the same thing.
Chris Gazdik: Right. Yeah. I think that’s interesting.
It’s cool to think about signs. I mean, what what do we mean by this? I guess we have a good definition and you know, when you think [00:19:00] about the signs like, how do you know this is really applying to you?
Victoria Pendergrass: I think there’s big ones.
Chris Gazdik: Okay.
Victoria Pendergrass: Like not putting yourself first. Mm hmm. Drops in self care. Okay. Where you’re not, where you’re prioritizing, like, other people’s needs versus, like, your own basic needs.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, it’s funny, we talk about it on the show often times, a real standard list of priorities. God is at the top of the list. If religion is not a factor for you, then, John, I’ve learned from you to add instead a cause greater than yourself. It’s really important to have as top priority. first priority and then your second, right?
Then third comes your spouse. So it’s God self spouse. You’re needing to be at the top of the list of all other people in your life. Self spouse, kids, family, otherwise, Friends and then work is on the bottom, generally pretty supported by data.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. You can’t adequately take care of others if you can’t adequately take care of [00:20:00] yourself.
Chris Gazdik: And if it’s like a hierarchy, there’s absolutely a hierarchy and day to day, it moves around. People get confused about that. Yeah. But that’s
Victoria Pendergrass: like, for the most part, the, the, the basis, the general
Chris Gazdik: guideline you want to go by is, is that, and if you’re constantly prioritizing other people’s needs, which is very easy to do.
Parents. Dramatic pause. We put our kids way above our needs, right? You know, at the expense of your own. That’s a big piece that you’re expending yourself caring for other people. How
Victoria Pendergrass: many times have I eaten my dinner has been my two year old’s food that he did not eat? I’m guilty as charged also.
Instead of making my own adult plate. Like, how many times have I had chicken nuggets for dinner because my Kid did not touch them. Right, but I’m like, I’m not gonna let that go to Instead of making my instead of taking the time to make myself like a heart full hearty healthy like meal for a 31 year old [00:21:00] Universal
Chris Gazdik: parenting experience.
Yeah, Victoria and it’s a good daily life example I mean, we’re prioritizing our kids over ourselves or Sometimes money, you know, can come into the mix, but be careful about prioritizing these other things that aren’t you, because you will lose what you need
in your
Chris Gazdik: prioritization. Feeling disconnected from your passions or your interests having a lower sense of yourself, difficulty making decisions without considering other opinions first.
We just talked about that with the current event a little bit. Mm hmm. You can get consent, get opinions, get data, get information, talk about these things. Feeling exhausted or burnout, particularly that happens with marriage I think. Mm hmm. Marriage burnout and caretaking burnout is a way big issue. Oh, for sure.
So these are, these are some signs that like maybe you [00:22:00] are losing yourself and, Mm hmm. John, I think people don’t realize this is happening.
John-Nelson Pope: No, they find themselves and they say, How did, how did I get here? It’s almost, you know, it’s like the talking head song about Oh gosh, you’re going anyway, For the first
Chris Gazdik: time, John is not connecting with the song.
Yeah, it’s a stumble. Wow.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. Well, it’s been 100 episodes, but, but there’s once in a lifetime, once in a lifetime, you might want to look up the video talking because talking. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, I imagine it’s kind of like how, when we did our episode on resentment a couple weeks ago, how I mentioned that a lot of times people don’t realize they’re holding on that resentment until a therapist or someone points it out.
Hey. This kind of sounds like you’re holding on to some resentment, and then it’s like that lightbulb thing, and I think that sometimes that’s what’s happening here, at least in our offices, we might see people are [00:23:00] describing, like, these are the types of things that they’re experiencing, and then they just don’t realize until we put the verbiage together for them that says, like, kind of sounds like you’re, you’re kind of lost, losing yourself a little bit, or, you know, we put that sort of,
Chris Gazdik: Do you think there’s a reason for my topic choices in a bit of a theme?
Yeah, this is connected. Yeah, we did resentments and then we did resentments in marriage and I thought well This, and this was actually in my list from a long
time ago. Yeah. Did cover that. This is one of the ones that is a long time ago. But I mean, there’s,
John-Nelson Pope: there’s, there’s couples perhaps there’s a lot of illness in a family, or there’s someone that may have a, a developmental issue.
A child. Oh, yeah. And so you dedicate. Yourself to that child or to that significant other, that spouse.
Chris Gazdik: Say your bo your baby is born with spine A bifida. Exactly. And what is that daddy gonna do? That
John-Nelson Pope: is surgery. After surgery. There’s also dealing with a disability, wheelchair, [00:24:00] braces. What is that mama gonna do also
Victoria Pendergrass: if you have already have other kids
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Right. The thing that’s interesting here to me is this, this idea going back to the definition that I came up with was, you know, the gradual neglect, right? This is a, this is a insidious process that you go through where, Let’s just assume you’re highlighting yourself first, and you’re not married, and you don’t have kids, but you, you, your, your family member gets sick, and you end up sacrificing dating, you end up sacrificing starting a family, because you’re really caring for grandma, which is wonderful, Nothing wrong with that,
but you mentioned sickness, John, I
Chris Gazdik: mean, that can be, that can pull you dangerously away and gradually so, so that you don’t even know it, and you find yourself, you know, childless.
Well, I,
John-Nelson Pope: I have a client who’s, who took care of his mother until she [00:25:00] died and was single. And he was the designated person, caregiver in the family of three or four siblings. And he came to love very later in life. He was 18 years older than his current spouse.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, right.
John-Nelson Pope: So, and that’s why, and there’s an issue, there’s a generation gap between him, he and his wife now, you know, and, and he never was able to express his needs.
Chris Gazdik: And he’s 40.
John-Nelson Pope: He’s 60 now,
Chris Gazdik: 60 now, but yeah, but he was 40
John-Nelson Pope: years old. No, he was 40 when he, when he got married.
Chris Gazdik: Wait a minute.
John-Nelson Pope: I
Victoria Pendergrass: think, I mean, John makes a good point. Like, yeah, you get kind of sucked into it. It’s not like you wake up one day and you’re like overnight. Oh my gosh, I lost myself. It is a gradual like thing that builds up.
So yeah, you start, you get distracted and all of a sudden you wake [00:26:00] up and you’re, 50 and you’re still single. You never had kids because you’ve been doing whatever, taking care of someone or doing something that’s kind of. Like all that stuff got so you kind of fade you
John-Nelson Pope: what kind of wash out and fade out Fade away fade away
Chris Gazdik: background got to be a song about fading away.
John-Nelson Pope: Oh fade away Eric Clapton bell bottom blues
Victoria Pendergrass: Trivia night one day like
Chris Gazdik: But that’s cool because, honestly, Victoria, I feel like John has incorporated, you know, the artistic versions of art with music. I love it, man. And they apply, man. People do sing about these things. I think Dale called me singing
Victoria Pendergrass: Eminem when we first started talking about this.
Huh? Because he has a song called Lose Yourself.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, okay.
Victoria Pendergrass: But I’m not singing for y’all, so I was singing it in my head.
Chris Gazdik: John, that’s interesting. Why is that a different kind of losing yourself? That’s an important, I think that might be an important differential.
John-Nelson Pope: I think that the differential is, is that one, [00:27:00] if you take yourself so seriously, you, you, and everything is so controlled.
And so I, I’m not very familiar with, with that. It’s not M& M as much, but there’s a sense that you, you, you do your thing.
Chris Gazdik: He says, lose yourself in the moment and music, but we’re talking about something different.
John-Nelson Pope: Lose yourself as an identity.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Yeah. Losing yourself in the moment. So as to relax is very different than gradually losing your identity or your connection with needs.
You can lose
John-Nelson Pope: yourself doing mindfulness exercises. And that’s what you call
Victoria Pendergrass: it. The flow, you get in the flow and you just.
Chris Gazdik: Okay.
John-Nelson Pope: Which is good. Yeah. I used to run, and once I hit about six miles or seven miles I was hallucinating. You know, so, I’m joking, but, but you got, you got into that flow. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: And then all of a sudden you’re like, whoa, I’ve ran 12 miles and didn’t even realize it. That’s right. [00:28:00] Right. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, I don’t understand that John at all, but I get where you’re where you’re at with that because we all get Nick proper clinical term would be disassociated, right? Right. You just get lost in the moment and what you’re doing, which is very nice and distract.
That’s good. That’s good.
Victoria Pendergrass: That’s okay.
Chris Gazdik: We don’t want to lose your priority of self. We don’t want to lose your identity of who you are. We don’t want to lose the passions that you have, right? Those are core components of who and what you are and you can lose those things. Now I didn’t even Make it in our list because we’re going to talk about specific areas of life.
Well, let’s We did talk about marriage. I have it in there abuse situations, right? Is what just occurred to me that I wasn’t planning on talking about but when you get into an emotionally abusive situation Or a certain level of toxicity to water that down a little bit You you golly man it it it struck [00:29:00] comes up on you and you don’t even know it You’re changed.
John-Nelson Pope: 20 years ago, there was a New York City and I think she was actually a social worker and he was some sort of a big time muckety muck public figure. And he literally physically abused their child. So much that the child eventually died, and, but he abused her as well, and she was absolutely, all the bones in her face and her nose.
Was disfigured. Oh, wow. And so they
Chris Gazdik: charged from violence or from what?
John-Nelson Pope: From domestic violence. Okay.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. From, from being hit
John-Nelson Pope: and, yeah, from being hit. And she was a social worker? Yeah. Okay. So the, the point was she lost herself and she was charged with the death of the, of, of the child. And he was too. And he went to jail for a long time.
But she was basically because of diminished capacity, she [00:30:00] had lost herself of who she was, her values that she became basically an extension of his abuse. Wow. Yeah. That is just tragic. Am I on line with that?
Chris Gazdik: Absolutely. Yeah. It’s tragic, John. We, and we see this. I mean, y y you gotta understand, like, through a therapist’s eyes, we really do see people that are just, well, is it fair to say, like, lost?
Y’know? They’re just They’re just off line and, and, and, and they feel it, you know, you could call it depression and it certainly oftentimes is depression, but
people will get very anxious or very depressed. And it’s just because they’ve lost track on where they are for themselves. I think that’s
Victoria Pendergrass: how a lot of people end up in our offices to begin with.
I
Chris Gazdik: think
Victoria Pendergrass: so. Is they. I mean, I’ve definitely had people, they sit down on my couch, and that’s like one of the things that they, when I ask what brings you here [00:31:00] today, you know. I don’t even know
Chris Gazdik: who I am anymore. Yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: like I don’t know who I am. I feel lost. I feel confused. I, you know.
Chris Gazdik: These are direct statements that we get, right?
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah, no, I agree. That’s what I hear. is, is I, I don’t know who I am. I, I, and I’d like to find myself and then I, I, I go into my area, which is existential.
Yeah. Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: Logotherapy. Yeah. I can see
Victoria Pendergrass: that.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. Enjoy doing that. But, and I guess that’s when I, I was saying with the terminology, I guess it’s more of a recent term.
Victoria Pendergrass: The lose yourself, like losing yourself. Losing
John-Nelson Pope: yourself.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, it’s interesting. I don’t think it’s
Chris Gazdik: that recent of a turn, John. I think it’s something that I’ve, I think it’s been around. I remember, well, Eminem sing about that concept long time ago and well, you were talking about the songs you came up with it.
I think it’s been around for a while.
John-Nelson Pope: It has, it has. No, I’m, [00:32:00] no, the concept is, has always been around terminology. Just the terminology, I think, has changed. So let’s
Chris Gazdik: look at some different specific. And I’m not, I’m
John-Nelson Pope: going to stand my ground. I won’t back down.
Chris Gazdik: It’s a, Tom Petty, baby. Tom Petty. Tom Petty, baby.
Good. Areas of life that this happens, let’s take a little bit of time and just kind of meander through to understand the, the, the, the nitty gritty, the details of like how this actually happens to people because it will come in different areas of, of, of life. So we mentioned codependency on the show, we’ve done a whole shows on that, so I don’t want to spend too much time on it.
But. The basic definition of codependency, you know, I am what John you are, if I’m codependent with you. If you, John, are happy, I am happy. If you are not well, then I am not well. Right. So I am driven by my energies, my passion, my goal is to make you [00:33:00] well. And happy so that I will be that way. That’s how codependence works.
And so whenever codependency comes up, it’s kind of a big indicator that you are in great danger of this whole idea, losing yourself. I mean, you know, Constantly want to fix other people or take care of someone else’s problems or difficulty setting boundaries, not being able to say no. When you want to.
These are some of the things that you really, really get driven by people pleasing and other people’s approval. That has elements of codependency.
John-Nelson Pope: So, and that’s something that’s something therapist can get into the code. You mean therapists or humans? Yes. And we have our own. I see that also with ministers.
Absolutely. I mean, I’m
Chris Gazdik: people
John-Nelso
Chris Gazdik: If you’re not careful, you can fall into these traps very easily when people are upset with you. I can
John-Nelson Pope: outwork anybody, you know, [00:34:00] trying to please somebody.
Chris Gazdik: Right. Yeah. One of the. Young therapists out there, we, we learn early as a therapist, like Victoria, I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase by now because you’re not so young therapist no more, by the way, right?
You know, what’s the golden rule for new therapists? Don’t work harder than.
Victoria Pendergrass: Right?
Chris Gazdik: That’s just, we have to learn that. And it’s, it’s so hard. Because you want people to be well and you know a lot of information. And so you get excited at delivering this and helping them and guiding this and You start making all these suggestions and tracking all this data and they’re just sitting there like
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah, whatever I literally had someone earlier this week that mentioned that they are usually exhausted after therapy
And
Victoria Pendergrass: then they asked me how i’m not exhausted like they were like, how do you do this?
How’d you answer that? I said, I mean i’m exhausted, but I take care of myself, you know, like I you know
Chris Gazdik: You know the way I answer that? You [00:35:00] might, you might think about this. To me, the reason, one of the big reasons why that’s not the case, because people ask us that all the time. Yeah. How do you do this all day long?
Look, it’s not my emotion.
Victoria Pendergrass: It isn’t, yeah.
Chris Gazdik: If we were dealing with my emotion all day long, I’d be a backy case because I can only do that for short periods of time and I have to self care But I’m
Victoria Pendergrass: not carrying the emotions that you’re experiencing. Yeah, I
Chris Gazdik: identify with them. I care about you can work with you can have empathy I could empathize Really be right in the gutter with you when you’re in my office, but any of my stuff You start talking about my feelings about my kid when he has his dog that chewed my freaking pond filter Also the coconut that is a souvenir from the bahamas now.
We’re talking about how I feel about this situation the lime
Victoria Pendergrass: I could feel that
Chris Gazdik: one, right?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, I mean I get it and so I think that but I don’t know [00:36:00]
Chris Gazdik: we need to save you
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, I don’t know
Chris Gazdik: Are you drifty today? Are we
Victoria Pendergrass: okay, Victoria? She’s passionate.
Chris Gazdik: It’s the greasy hair.
Victoria Pendergrass: All
Chris Gazdik: right, how do we maintain self identity with this codependent stuff?
It goes back to setting boundaries. You gotta say yes when you mean yes and no when you mean no. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. Gotta be.
Victoria Pendergrass: Remember, no is a complete sentence.
Chris Gazdik: I love that that you say that, Victoria. You know, reconnecting with your actual hobbies. This is why I am ad nauseum and talking about self care, fun, relaxing, enjoyable activities.
Do you know how people, many people, Victoria just can’t even answer what they do for themselves? For enjoyment. I go to the gym. Struggle.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, and I always have to explain to people that self care doesn’t, does not have to be this big extravagant. I’m going to drop a bunch of money on something thing.
Yeah, [00:37:00] it’s basic
Chris Gazdik: stuff. Like now I ride your bike, John. Yeah. Yes, you do. Reading a book. Big reddish orange bike. I bought John’s bike from him. So it’s an all. But it doesn’t
Victoria Pendergrass: have to be where I spend. Like a hundred something dollars every once a month to go to the spa for a day. If that wants to be what you want to do for self care, go for it.
But it doesn’t have to be extravagant. Like, it can be simple.
Chris Gazdik: 000.
John-Nelson Pope: It can walk down by Tuskegee Park or whatever it’s called. Yeah, right down, yeah. It’s a park, local park by our office.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, there’s, there’s lots of things to do. Practicing self compassion and recognizing your worth. You know, validating yourself.
Yeah. Looking at yourself talk. There’s lots of ways to manage and we’ve talked about these things before with co parenting. Be careful. But that when it hits, whenever it hits, wherever it hits indicator, for instance, by the way, if somebody, you know, in your life has a substance abuse problem, you’re probably [00:38:00] codependent Lee.
attached to them. There’s a high level of codependence when somebody is an addict or alcoholic, right? Almost universal.
John-Nelson Pope: And that will also, and it doesn’t have to be the parents, it could be the kiddos that have the codependency as well. On their parent who has an alcoholic problem. And then that perpetuates itself in other relationships.
Sucked in. Sucked in. in and
Chris Gazdik: you
John-Nelson Pope: see the self sucked out
Chris Gazdik: of you. Oh my goodness. That’s great. John, you get sucked into the person’s problems and life and your own self gets sucked out in that.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. Well, because we’ve mentioned before that if you have one codependency relationship, you most likely have more.
Chris Gazdik: Fair enough.
Victoria Pendergrass: Right. Like, if you and I are codependent, it’s probably not the only relationship I’m codependent with. It’s probably multiple other, not, if all my, not, maybe not all my relationships, but I probably have other [00:39:00] signs of codependence.
Chris Gazdik: There’s elements throughout most relationships if you have codependent tendencies.
Yeah. But let’s switch to where we began, parenting.
Victoria Pendergrass: Oh.
Chris Gazdik: Let’s talk about the daily life of parenting and how this can relate to losing yourself, right? Parents often focus so much on their children’s needs that they forget their own is the basic fundamental reality. How many times I mentioned the lost decade?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yep, you’ve mentioned that before. I think
Chris Gazdik: that fits right here tremendously. The whole, if you’ve heard me talk about that before, pretty sure that’s a unique idea to myself. Where your kids get a little bit older. I see it as age four to 14, to be honest with you. Your first child talk about losing yourself for Victoria.
Like
Victoria Pendergrass: you hadn’t
Chris Gazdik: started yet at that point
Victoria Pendergrass: you blink and all of a sudden it’s, it’s 10 years later, it’s
John-Nelson Pope: gone, but it’s a very intense time. And a lot of my, in my experience of counseling with clients is that the [00:40:00] parents. So immersed themselves in this that they, that they’re so busy going, doing travel teams, doing all these other things that dance class, softball, baseball, they have emptied themselves and they are eviscerated desiccated.
They are dried up husk sometimes.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. And easily so. Quickly, although there is a gradual effect, quickly over the years, yeah Victoria the decade goes by what happened, but it is gradual.
Victoria Pendergrass: But when you break it down you don’t notice it.
Chris Gazdik: Right. How old is your son if I may ask?
Victoria Pendergrass: Two and a half.
Chris Gazdik: Right, so you’re, you’re pushing three years, it’s almost like, oh my god we have a baby, and you’re consumed as you should be with sleep and bottles.
Then all that stuff
Victoria Pendergrass: right,
Chris Gazdik: but then you you don’t you still expect almost like emotionally that this will end You’re probably getting to the point now where it’s like [00:41:00] two plus years in you’re pushing three years It’s like have you realized that this is like permanent. This is really never changing
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, I sit on the couch sometimes at night and it pops into my head, right?
Oh my gosh, I have to do this for the next. This
Chris Gazdik: really isn’t ending. It takes Now that’s many months where your Emotional system sort of catches up to like this idea that I am no longer who I
was before I had this child And that’s a good thing, but it’s also dangerous Because you can lose yourself.
Look at these indications. These are, these are interesting signs. Rarely making time for your own hobbies and social activities. Lost decade feeling overwhelmed exhausted or guilty. Oh, there’s an important mom guilt on Parent guilt.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah
Chris Gazdik: parent guilt.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: cuz men feel guilty. Also, I gotta tell you when doing things for yourself Don’t feel guilty for that.
Here’s [00:42:00] a tip mic drop. All right, do something for yourself Yeah, make yourself a 31 year old adult plate and don’t feel guilty about it. Like yeah, it’s okay. All right Losing sight of your personal goals or your dreams that you had for that role of a parent have a one five and ten year plan Do it every year.
I was an idea. Sorry good.
John-Nelson Pope: No. No, that’s what I’ve done in my own life Yeah, I mean, that’s how come I went back and got my doctorate. Is it? Yeah, you set goals I said those goals. Yeah, we set goals and
Chris Gazdik: manage them. Yeah, if you’re not setting your goals You set kid goals.
John-Nelson Pope: Be
Chris Gazdik: careful. Yeah,
John-Nelson Pope: be careful. I’ve, I’ve got goals now that I’m 71, I’m, I’m.
Thinking you got a 10 year plan. John got a 10 year plan. I sure do love that.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Real quick. Since
John-Nelson Pope: when I always want to be with you, it’s a song with [00:43:00] you.
Chris Gazdik: I take a piece of paper and on the first side, I write all the one year things that you want to accomplish, turn it around two thirds or three quarters.
You’re right. between now and 5 years from now. What I want to accomplish in the last third or quarter is the 10 year plan. Front and back. Easy activity, you can do it in 15 20 minutes. Yep. And it really holds you to, like, you’re not gonna write down, my one year goal is to have my child hitting a 3. 25 batting average, John.
Victoria Pendergrass: Right. He’s 2 and a half. Or whatever, you know, yeah. Well, your kid
Chris Gazdik: wouldn’t have a batting average like that, but, You know, if I have a teenager, that’s my goal for my kid to have a better batting average or a better swim time No And you don’t find yourself writing those things, you know your sets of goals So physically if you’re in that zone do that.
It’s [00:44:00] a good activity. What do you think? Yeah, I mean parenting It’s it’s it’s it’s a lovely time. I think
Victoria Pendergrass: it’s so easy to lose yourself Because I think a lot of times you find a routine You And then you get stuck in that routine and then it becomes mundane. And then like, that’s just this thing, you know, like every Saturday we do this and every Sunday we do that.
And then Monday morning it’s back again. Like, and then there’s no, I think then that’s a lot of times how, not saying that schedules are bad because being efficient is nice. Sorry about spilling my water bottle. But like, I do think that that’s an easy way for people to lose themselves is they just like.
Get in the grind and in the routine of things and then they just repeat that every day.
Chris Gazdik: The grind. Or
Victoria Pendergrass: the every weekend. How about the grind?
Chris Gazdik: What is the grind?
Victoria Pendergrass: Like just getting in the like in a routine and like kind of like really buckling down and just like
Chris Gazdik: Well, [00:45:00] I identify the grind as like the daily stress, the overwhelm of regularly living.
People will talk about being in the grind. When you’re in the grind, you’re going to lose yourself.
John-Nelson Pope: Okay. And I would agree with that. And I’m, I’m saying that. I have no, when I was in the military, for example, guys were in there, it’s very stressful job. It is a stressful job. And there are people that are 10 years in and they say, I only have 10 more years left before I retire.
You know, these guys are only 30, 31 years old by that time. And they’re already doing this and they’re dealing with high cholesterol and heart problems and all high blood pressure and all those other issues. And I see that with people that. Well, I can’t retire until I’m at this point. They’re not enjoying their lives.
They have lost themselves. There’s an experience. So it’s not just doing it with parents. Resentment,
Chris Gazdik: regrets, there’s feelings of shame [00:46:00] or guilt. Yeah. That it’s a terrible, it is a terrible space. You can’t be in the now.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, and what I’ve been explaining to people this or happens to be a conversation this week.
in my office, is that like, it doesn’t make you a bad parent to do your own hobbies, to have your own me time, like, to take care of yourself.
Chris Gazdik: Does
Victoria Pendergrass: not make you a bad mom or a bad dad or a bad parent.
Chris Gazdik: It’s crazy, right? But, and I think that’s where that guilt
Victoria Pendergrass: comes in is because then you feel bad. You’re like, oh, I shouldn’t be, again, shitting on yourself.
But, like, you shouldn’t, you think to yourself, I don’t need to be doing this for myself because I need to be spending time with my child or spending, you
know, doing this or taking them there. It’s a defenseless child. What do you mean I’m
Chris Gazdik: not supposed to be there to take care of it? The child can’t take care of itself.
If it wasn’t for me, they wouldn’t survive. It’s a trap. How is it a trap? [00:47:00]
Victoria Pendergrass: Because you still have, like, again, with what I said earlier, you can’t adequately take care of your kid if you can’t adequately take care of yourself. In our
John-Nelson Pope: society, we’ve had, and this is where I’m going to get in trouble with millennial geniuses, okay, is that they’re, they come up with these rules that Alienate themselves from the people that could help them raise the child and have community and actually have that quality time to help to not lose themselves.
Victoria Pendergrass: Well, that’s what I’m saying. It’s like, my kid has two parents. So, like, I went on a girl’s trip a couple in August for a friend’s birthday. Guilt
Chris Gazdik: free?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Loved it. I made, I made, I made me talk to
Victoria Pendergrass: my kid once while I was gone. There you go. I like. I mean, I thought of them, but like, I didn’t feel bad.
Chris Gazdik: I would submit to you, Victoria.
I
Victoria Pendergrass: didn’t feel bad for going on a trip.
Chris Gazdik: That is a really good example, and I would submit to you when your child is five or six years old, that that [00:48:00] actually begins to become harder.
Victoria Pendergrass: To do those things. To do that. I will say, yes, it is a little bit easier now because he’s two, and he doesn’t take a lot to take care of.
Chris Gazdik: Well, more so, it’s in our own heads.
Victoria Pendergrass: Really
Chris Gazdik: so I’m predicting a little bit but Hopefully for you it won’t because we talk about this stuff,
Victoria Pendergrass: right?
Chris Gazdik: And when he’s six, you’re gonna remember but you might forget but hopefully you’ll remember it’s still okay Yeah, even though the child is saying mommy. Don’t go mommy.
Don’t go to that trip. I I need you. Are you gonna go?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, probably. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: You got to. Because the other people will suck you in to unhealthy boundaries and that’s a lot. So your
John-Nelson Pope: own kid can suck you into an unhealthy boundary. Right. For sure. Because you’re the, you’re the grown up. And so the grown up needs to be able to set boundaries.
Chris Gazdik: I knew that we had a lot to get to. I’m going to clump these together and say, cause the same things kind of happen for a caretaking role. [00:49:00]
It is
Chris Gazdik: a very big danger when you are taking care of the well being of another person, grandma, or your spouse. It could be a friend that you move in with. When you take on a caretaking role, it’s exhausting and you feel the urgency.
This is a highly disabled person.
Victoria P
Chris Gazdik: may die if you don’t do a good job doing what you’re doing as a caretaker. Right, that’s the fear which is another big emotion with this guilt We can add fear along with it.
John-Nelson Pope: Here’s, here’s an example. Know somebody. This is 20 years ago. He was visually impaired.
He was, we used to call blind. He was blind. He was, couldn’t see. And he’d learned how to do all these things. And he had worked, he’d studied at a school. And he was in a relationship with somebody. And he [00:50:00] would expect people to be to take him around and do all sorts of things for him, he grew to expect it and he could manipulate people to do those things for him.
Now, part of that is understandable why that would happen. And yet you’re supposed to feel like you’re, you’re more likely to feel obligated to help him with, with obligated, obligated. There’s
Chris Gazdik: another important word.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. And so he would guilt you guilt trip you. Into doing some things for him when he was perfectly capable of doing it himself.
He just lived a few few yards, a hundred yards from, from a store. He could actually shop for himself, but he was
Chris Gazdik: disabled people. Don’t have inability to do nothing, right? What is the ability that you have? Now we can’t expect somebody with a, you know, a weird chair to, to go, [00:51:00] you know, in a 5k race. Can we, wait a minute.
Yeah, they can, John. Yeah, they can. Right? Yeah. They’re called Paralympics. They’ll kick your tail any day.
John-Nelson Pope: Go a lot faster than you. As I
Chris Gazdik: said, yeah, for sure. Right, so, so be careful about that. Yeah, I mean, you know, in the same thing in marriage, I was just sitting there thinking about, like, I hate this word is used, way overused, and it’s terribly overused.
It makes me mad almost. But, you know, narcissist. There’s really a set of characteristics that is a narcissist. Be careful using that word you people out there, but you know when you’re married and you have emotional abuse and can you imagine how exhausted you are dealing with a narcissist? Right. It’s absolutely exhausting.
Borderline personality. Same. A person,
John-Nelson Pope: a self centered person, doesn’t have to be a narcissist or, or, me, me, me kind of guy. Me, me, me. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Let’s talk about me.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: What is that song? We talk about you all the [00:52:00] time. Let’s talk about me for a minute. Yeah. That’s right. All right, John. I’m trying, man. You’re trying.
You can’t keep up. I’m thinking of
Victoria Pendergrass: a different song, but yeah, sure. Can’t keep
Chris Gazdik: up. Feeling that your personal needs or interests have been. Taking a backseat, prioritizing personal activities that bring you joy. That’s something that you need to do. Losing interest in activities you once enjoyed feeling isolated or guilty.
I would add fearful. These are all signs that in caretaking relationship or in a marriage that this has gotten out of balance. So emotional. Exhaustion, household responsibilities feel inequitable. You know, these areas all happen, but that’s not the only areas when you’re talking about parenting, caretaking and marriage.
But if you think about how easy this is to happen to you, we want to make you aware. Why do we care? If you lose yourself, what’s the problem with that? Like
Victoria Pendergrass: [00:53:00] why even bother?
Chris Gazdik: What do you mean?
Victoria Pendergrass: No, I’m saying is that what we’re asking?
Chris Gazdik: No, what are the consequences of this? I mean, why do we care about losing ourselves?
Victoria Pendergrass: I think sometimes Cause it can be crushing? Well, I think sometimes then you become a shell of a person And you’re not really living a life You’re literally just doing the day to day And
Chris Gazdik: Oh, we’re just surviving and not thriving. Yeah. Okay,
Victoria Pendergrass: which sometimes that’s fine Sometimes short periods of time sometimes I have clients that come in And i’m like, what do you want to work on this week?
And they’re like, honestly, I just want to survive this week and then we’ll we’ll talk about it You know next week and i’m like that’s fine. Yep, but then if we have like several weeks in a row Where their main goal is just to survive. Okay. Yeah, we need to, we need to kind of address that. But I think that ultimately then like long term that’s like you, you, [00:54:00] it’s, you get to the point I think where sometimes people look at you or you look at yourself in the mirror and And you, and you don’t recognize yourself.
Because you’ve lost your, like, you don’t recognize, you don’t recognize the person that’s standing. Obviously
Chris Gazdik: not your image. Yeah, but you don’t recognize your characteristics. Right, but
Victoria Pendergrass: it’s that whole metaphor if you look at, like, you look at yourself in the mirror and you’re like, Who is this person?
Like, what is this person that I’ve become?
Chris Gazdik: Right. Right. And, and, and some of the consequences. I mean, when you, when you start to identify this stuff, I mean, you are burned out. You are overwhelmed. Your physical health is affected. Didn’t you say something john earlier about About that. Like your, your, your health is
John-Nelson Pope: cholesterol goes up, cortisol goes up your blood pressure.
You, your sleep is affected adversely. Your brain ages five years, resentment, resentment
Chris Gazdik: [00:55:00] into mix, you know, another big area of life that I didn’t even realize this. Anyone or all you people that are managing other people at work? Mm-Hmm? . When you have a supervisory role role or you
have a management role, or you’re a founder of a company or you work at home by yourself as your own self company, these are really like,
John-Nelson Pope: but you know what?
There, there are people that are leaders. Are people that would be bosses that would look for people that would be eager to please and do that and they’re not higher. They lose
Victoria Pendergrass: themselves, but they’re not,
John-Nelson Pope: but they will burn their employees out. But that’s what happens because they’ll groom them for that.
It’s terrible, man. Yeah, and I’ve. I’ve experienced that. I’ve experienced that in academia.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. I think we’ve all experienced that in some sort of, yeah, you
Chris Gazdik: know, you’re at a agency that, that, that counts [00:56:00] productivity. They have a like my, my kid’s sales company is very difficult for this in that industry.
It’s pressure, pressure, pressure.
Victoria Pendergrass: They start to include like. Financial incentives for if you meet that productivity, right? And then that only makes you want to further bury yourself and make yourself like
John-Nelson Pope: you’re going to win it again. I will say, and I know I’ve stated this
Victoria Pendergrass: before, but right before COVID, when I was a school based therapist, my caseload was 70, 70 kids.
As a school based therapist,
Chris Gazdik: you’re actively trying that I was
Victoria Pendergrass: actively trying to manage and I wasn’t managing. I mean, I’m being honest. I was, we were not managing. So in other
John-Nelson Pope: words, the numbers become more important than the person, the clients. And so if you, if you’re burned out, you’re not going to be any good for your clients.
Chris Gazdik: Yes. We call it compassion fatigue right now in our field. God bless you, Victoria. Right. I mean, these are these things. I mean, just, just, just stop and think for a minute, like [00:57:00] we’ve been dancing around various areas of life and we’ve added a few that I didn’t even think about, you know, on our show prep, it’s daunting how many ways.
And roles, or positions, or periods of time in your life cycle, that this really can bite into you.
Yeah. And
Chris Gazdik: it’s gradual, you don’t realize it, you don’t know it, and it really affects you. Like, if you find yourself as that crotchety old man, get off my lawn, Get off!
John-Nelson Pope: I can say that. Do it, John. Get off
Chris Gazdik: my lawn!
Right? That was, that wasn’t just like at a drop of a dime, that was a process of getting older and edgy and stressed, too stimulated, like, you know, it, it, this, I think elements of this affects all of us.
Victoria Pendergrass: For sure.
Chris Gazdik: Probably should have said it at the front end.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: How do we get out of this? How do we [00:58:00] prevent this?
How do we deal with this? You’re, you are, it’s, it’s early. Yeah. Is it? Oh. It is 729. Victoria had a hard stop, she’s leaving because she’s prioritizing family, so that’s going to hold us to starting on time at the right time. See you later, good to see you, we’ll see you next week. We will summarize us up. So it’s just John and I now, how do we prevent losing ourselves?
How do we prevent being in this space? How do we prevent, you know, having this happen to us? We’ll say you.
John-Nelson Pope: Boundary care? Boundary setting? I think you could set some, in other words, I, I like what you said earlier, and that is, what did I say? No setting goals. Okay. Yeah, because I think you could set boundaries by setting goals because that says this is where I would like to be.
And so that would help you define what is considered you, you you say, well, I’m not going to be [00:59:00] dispersed. I’m going to, in order to obtain my goals, I have to, I have to do such and such and such and such. And that might mean I, I decide I can’t be all things to all people. I have to keep my eye on the prize to keep the main thing.
The main thing is Curly said in a Billy Crystal movie.
Chris Gazdik: Curly said that I was thinking you might’ve meant Earl and Hardy or. What was that? Not Charlie Chapman. Anyway, Lauren Hardy. Yeah, I lost it. So it’s a boundary setting. I mean, boundaries. I mean, I think you need to be able to tell people no.
Huh.
Chris Gazdik: Period. It, it, there’s, there’s the people pleasing that works against you, but if you can’t say no to people when they ask you for something, when they’re on you for something, it, that, that just creates a real big danger of being overextended. And, and that’s, there’s a [01:00:00] lot that goes into boundaries, and we’ve talked about that on the show in prior episodes, but You know, kind of
John-Nelson Pope: question.
I think, I think a key is also to have a passion.
Chris Gazdik: Okay, know your why they talk about, right?
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah, to have a why. The clients that I work with, I love my clients. I love all of them. But there’s a couple of clients that don’t have a why.
Chris Gazdik: Don’t know what they’re doing.
John-Nelson Pope: No. And they’re helpless and hopeless.
Chris Gazdik: There’s a couple of key clinical words when you feel stuck in a rut, helpless and hopeless. This is you.
John-Nelson Pope: And sometimes the best type of, of doing stuff for yourself is to do stuff for others in a way that isn’t codependent.
Chris Gazdik: Oh boy. You’re going to have to tease that out a minute.
John-Nelson Pope: Okay. In other words, do meals for wheel on wheels, for
Chris Gazdik: example, program where people [01:01:00] take meals to poverty stricken people,
John-Nelson Pope: coach a little league team or something.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, I love doing that.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah, that, that, that makes your heart sling.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, it was great. Right. It was great. Yeah, it was, it was a sweet spot of mine, but wife actually made a comment a couple of years ago. She, she actually made that suggestion. She’s like, you were alive when you were doing that. Like you were wired, you were loving it.
You could tell. And she’s right. That, that was absolutely. Something that I experienced
John-Nelson Pope: and if you, there’s another thing, and that’s one of the things in my own life is do something symbolic that would help define your life. And that is a goal. If you want to do outward bound, for example, which is a challenge.
Can be anywhere from 10 days to, to a month and you go out into the wilderness and you, you don’t have it in you, you, you don’t think, and you get challenged to do something that for yourself, that [01:02:00] would help you achieve something and give you confidence.
Chris Gazdik: Absolutely. Now I lost my thought. I was joining with, but, well, I, I did
John-Nelson Pope: Outward Bound before I went into the Navy.
Oh. That’s
Chris Gazdik: my thought was people should
John-Nelson Pope: write a book. Right. Write a book,
Chris Gazdik: have a, have a through a therapist
John-Nelson Pope: eyes with blue eyes and green eyes.
Chris Gazdik: Right,
John-Nelson Pope: right.
Chris Gazdik: That has a prioritization of your dream. Uhhuh , your passion. I did a
John-Nelson Pope: dissertation, for example, didn’t think I could do it. Doctoral
Chris Gazdik: program.
John-Nelson Pope: Doctoral program.
Did it in three years. Yeah. Which is. Going full time. Okay. Okay. Full time. And my work was basically running a clinic, but that was probably the biggest goal that I didn’t think I could do it. And you, you follow that passion, follow that dream.
Chris Gazdik: You know, it’s funny. We have this segment towards the end as we’re doing now, or how we manage the particular topic of the day.
And, you know, I, I [01:03:00] guess I don’t spend as much time on that list because there’s a lot of overlap. Okay. When you’re doing healthy things for yourself, I mean, here’s our whole list that I kind of came up with. And, you know, I was thinking about this boundary setting, prioritizing self care, nurture your hobbies and passions, the communication that you give to other people, tapping into and allowing for support systems.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. Unlike that list that we talked about earlier. What, what do you mean? Well the list, you basically were the, the, the, the parents of
the newborn, basically will isolate. Oh, unlike the list. Unlike the list. You, you engage his support system.
Chris Gazdik: That bothered you? Hang
Neil Robinson: on, I sent my wife that link cause she has her, Her education, birth, kindergarten education.
So I was very intrigued. So her response to this, cause she read it and she went through it in a role in the world today, I mostly agree, but I think some are a bit overkill. I mean, can you imagine a grandmother staying at a hotel? [01:04:00] Seriously? No one is going to want to visit. And I think. Being, being too overbearing will cause distance in our relationships.
All the craziest part of being a new parent. I think it’s important to go through it. So as my wife was very stringent on boundaries, even she doesn’t agree with the whole thing, which was very surprising, but yeah, I thought that was interesting that she actually came back with a your wife
John-Nelson Pope: is a very, she’s a sensei.
Chris Gazdik: She’s on point. She’s on point. She’s wise. Managing your time, engaging with support networks, re evaluating your priorities are some of the things that we talked about. I mean, look, it’s, it’s a really important topic because, John, I think Is it fair to say, is this, is this on some level, Is it fair to say that this is a universal issue on some percentage?
Yeah. I don’t know how you can’t be Affected in this way of losing elements of yourself. And we, it’s okay, we lose them, but we regain them back and we lose them and regain them back. And [01:05:00] we, we choose to have something change and then we move towards something else. So it’s, this is an ever moving reality.
But I, yeah. John, I, I, losing elements of yourself is a universal human experience. Is that a fair statement?
John-Nelson Pope: Exactly. I know. I think it’s a very, very good statement. I think I think by nature we want to be altruistic. We wanted to give back to others and, but the group, but if you’re not altruistic to yourself and that is to take care of yourself and to know yourself, you’re not going to be able to pass on values to, to others.
Again, They’re going to draw you in, the people that are codependent and suck you dry. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Scary. So it’s dangerous. So listen, we’re going to get out of here. We’ve reached the end of our time together, but I want you to understand these topics that we talk about are things that we really do see in [01:06:00] And you can really benefit from thinking about how this affects you with those questions that we started out with.
I think that we’ve done a good job of answering. Have you ever felt like you lost touch with your own identity or needs in a relationship? What areas of your life do you feel the most pressure, that’s an important word, to prioritize others over yourself? How can you begin to reclaim a sense of self?
While being supportive to those that you care for in that balance that you get, these things are possible, but they’re really needing to be purposeful on your part because the gradual process will take hold of you and you’ll be led down a road where you find that you’re not even who you used to be and who you want to be today.
It’s really easy to have happen.
John-Nelson Pope: of Linda Ronstadt and singing long, long time. And she said, plaintively, I’d do anything to make you mine, but I think I’m going to love you for a long, long [01:07:00] time. And basically the whole gist of the store of the song is she tried to, to make herself into what this other person wanted, and it was not good enough.
And she eventually lost herself, but she was Also rejected. Yeah. So I think I’m going to love you for a long, long time.
Chris Gazdik: And with that, we ask you to stay well, stay tuned, tell a friend, and we’ll see
you
next week.