Episode #90 – The National Corona Virus Senior Long Term Care Plight with Mr.Richard Danford

Past show interests: Episode #72 – Fear, Our Friend or Foe?

48% of COVID-19 deaths were in nursing homes. A nursing home in Washington was hit very early in the US. Bodies of the dead were found in a nursing home. You may have heard bits and pieces of news about how the coronavirus has impacted nursing homes, but in this episode the guys talk to an ombudsman and two doctors whose mother is in a nursing home facility in NYC. “Shocked” is an understatement of how the guys felt after having this conversation. A must hear about how our elder generations have been treated, and why, during the pandemic.

Tune in to see Nursing Homes and COVID-19 Through a Therapist’s Eyes.

Listen to Episode #90 – The National Corona Virus Senior Long Term Care Plight with Mr.Richard Danford

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Episode #90 Transcription

Craig Graves: [00:00:00] Hello, Chris, and welcome to the Through a Therapist’s Eyes podcast

Chris Gazdik: [00:00:06] and Mr. Graves. Good to see you again, man. I got to say, I love being back  on the mics. This has got a cool as life gets back to normal. Uh, at least the new normal, right? So, uh, we are inviting you to see the world through the lens of the mental health and substance abuse therapist with the goal to create emotional growth through the medium of this podcast.

And everyone being aware as always, this is not to delivery of therapy services in any way. And we’re looking for. Feedback and discussion. You can always go to through a therapist I’s dot com. Uh, mr. Graves, this is the human emotional experience. What, uh, what shall we do?

Craig Graves: [00:00:44] Figure it out together.

Chris Gazdik: [00:00:46] I love it, man.

You are coach graves pointing that out. He’s a unbeatable mind coach developing that program and services for people. Pretty cool. Still going well.

Craig Graves: [00:00:56] It’s going good. That’s good. It’s going good. Lots of good stuff happening. Uh,

Chris Gazdik: [00:01:00] thank you to everybody out there for the feedback and everything on the book cover, we have, uh, we have come to somewhat of a collusion collusion.

We’ve colluded to come to a conclusion on the book cover, but that’s going to remain a mystery. Um, got it. So it has been such a crazy process trying to figure out, man, I ain’t going to lie. Um, we got a Google of people today on the show, mr. Graves. We’ve had quite a, quite a few guests lately. Haven’t we not.

Craig Graves: [00:01:29] We have, we’ve got multiple people on it. That’s the first time we’ve had as many. I think

Chris Gazdik: [00:01:33] I agree. I was thinking about that.

Craig Graves: [00:01:34] Yeah, it is.

Chris Gazdik: [00:01:35] I was thinking about that. Well, we got one, two, three, four, five, right?

Craig Graves: [00:01:39] Including me and you. Yeah,

Chris Gazdik: [00:01:40] yeah. Yeah. Pretty neat. Um, we are talking about the national. Did you know there’s an epidemic going on?

Craig Graves: [00:01:48] I heard something about it. Yeah. Yeah. So I’m a sound bite it in the news.

Chris Gazdik: [00:01:51] COVID-19 my gosh. Senior long term care plight is been just a dynamic issue that people have been talking about. Worried about thinking about it’s. Uh, I think we’re gonna blow your socks off a little bit with some of the things that we’re going to talk about today with how people are experiencing the nursing care.

Facilities and stuff. Um, Craig, is this our second to, I guess this is our last COVID-19 specific episode, is that, is that a true statement?

Craig Graves: [00:02:17] The last one we have planned, there may, there may be follow ups, but this is the last one we had planned for. Now.

Chris Gazdik: [00:02:22] We’ve got a summary come in next week and I’m uh, and then we’re, we’re playing around with, um, You know, taking a little bit of a break, so we’ll see how all that goes.

Yeah. So many things happen in a rapid fashion. So guess who we got on the show today? Do you know?

Craig Graves: [00:02:36] I know

Chris Gazdik: [00:02:37] you do know

 He is cheating everybody’s got show notes. Listen to this guy, man. Craig. Mr. Richard Danford has been willing to join us. This guy is, uh, as I have come to find in the last couple of weeks, talking to him a few times, passionately, and tirelessly  served as a successful patient rights advocate, a longterm care facility Ombudsman.

Um, he’s been a champion for the aging disability populations in four States over 25 years. Previously at the New York city longterm care ombudsman program. First, the Brooklyn borough supervising, and then as program director was responsible for implementing longterm care ombudsmen required for the older Americans act.

Uh, I don’t know what that is, but maybe we’ll find out. He provided program administration operations and training and supervision of team professionals and volunteer Ombudsman responsible for serving over Craig listen, 50,000 residents in 240 longterm care facilities.  This guy has been around, I’d say, wow, I ain’t done.

He is currently the advocate chair. For the national association of long term care, ombudsman and consultation consultants to nonprofit organizations, serving the aging and disability communities in Massachusetts, in New Hampshire, uh, previously director of patient advocacy program at the university of San Diego law school for 15 years.

Are you doing the math on this guy, president of the California association of mental health part patients’ rights advocates, former California advocate of the year and mental health person of the year for San Diego County covered the whole 50, a 50 state thing. I’m thinking. He also served as long term care policy and procedure process engineer and community development specialist for the state of Idaho.

Mr. Danford, thank you for what you clearly are very accomplished and have been doing for just a minute for all that you have done for our, our seniors, sir. How are you?

Richard Danford: [00:04:37] Good was kind of hard to listen to all that. It just makes me feel older anyway. Yeah, it’s great to be here. Really appreciate you guys being interested. In the subject for sure.

Chris Gazdik: [00:04:48] Absolutely. You know, it’s funny, somebody told me actually, I think last week Mandy did, she’s like, it’s kind of funny, man. When you hear your intro go past a minute, it’s kind of like, Oh God,

Richard Danford: [00:04:59] yes, you gotta be an old guy then, you know, what’s interesting about this. I don’t know. I think I sent you an email to that effect.

My roots are actually in the therapy area.

Chris Gazdik: [00:05:09] Oh, okay.

Richard Danford: [00:05:10] Yeah. Uh, I graduated from right after undergraduate school. I, my degree was in psychology and I had this fantasy that I was going to be the next Carl Rogers.

Chris Gazdik: [00:05:20] Gotcha.

Richard Danford: [00:05:20] Yeah, it didn’t quite happen. Um, and right out of school, I started working in psychiatric intensive care units and, uh, quickly realized that the, the system of care, if you will.

Uh, was a whole lot different than the theoretical conversations about, uh, approaches to doing therapy. Right after six years of working in psych ICU, I became a patient rights advocate in response to that. So my roots are in that area, but yeah, I never made it to the Carl Rogers. Uh, Perfection,

Chris Gazdik: [00:05:57] but you know, what’s funny. Uh, shall I call you mr. Danford or Richard? How shall I?

Okay. Okay. So, you know, it’s funny. Um, I, I don’t, I don’t talk about this much. I don’t, I barely remember. It seems like so long ago, but one of the very first. Professional experiences I ever had was as I had to do volunteer hours as a part of getting in, or actually maybe a as just early on in my undergraduate BSW career, I spent time in an adult daycare facility.

That’s what they called it.

Richard Danford: [00:06:27] Yeah.

Chris Gazdik: [00:06:27] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was, it was fascinating. Craig, we’re not done. We’ve got a couple more people we’ve got, uh, we’re gonna we’re we’re gonna protect identities a little bit and call it. They wanted to be referred to as doctor B and doctor a and they have, um, been for a long standing is staunch advocates of the voiceless and vulnerable residents that we have across our country.

Uh, they have a loved one in a facility. Uh, currently, um, and, uh, I’m not sure if you guys want to just say what state that is in, so I’m gonna withhold that out, but it might be interesting for people to know. Uh, welcome all three of you to, through a therapist, a doctor, a and doctor B. How about you introduce yourself a little bit and tell us a little bit about what you want to say.

Doctor A: [00:07:12] Uh, good afternoon. Good evening. Uh, we are, uh, concerned about the residents who are in their nursing homes, not only in our state, but across the nation. Uh, we recognize that, um, I was senior citizens that most vulnerable demographics are not being treated very well. And because we have a parent. Who is now in a facility.

She is a centenarian and we are certainly concerned about her health and also the people who are in her residential community.

Chris Gazdik: [00:07:48] Are you saying she’s lived a hundred years

Doctor A: [00:07:52] plus?

Craig Graves: [00:07:53] Wow. That’s amazing. That is super

Chris Gazdik: [00:07:55] cool.

Doctor A: [00:07:57] And she’s cogent and she’s funny. She has all her teeth. Her eyes are excellent. No diabetes.

Chris Gazdik: [00:08:05] That’s fantastic. Hey, you mentioned teeth. Craig likes to throw a joke at me, man. He drives me nuts every time he talks about my home state of West Virginia. You maybe Craig I  set you up, man. You want to do it again for the 20th time go

Craig Graves: [00:08:25] How do we know the Toothbrush was invented in West Virginia.

Doctor A: [00:08:29] Please tell me how,

Chris Gazdik: [00:08:32] Oh wait.

Craig Graves: [00:08:32] Otherwise it would have been the teeth, bro.

Chris Gazdik: [00:08:34] Here’s the punchline. He loves his jab. Me man, but I’m proud of my teeth from West Virginia. Listen guys, we opened this up to. I was curious, you know, I got some questions and stuff, and I got some thoughts that we kind of maybe go down through, uh, after we go through some questions, but I wanted to just open it up really for any three of you, right?

Like the idea of you guys absolutely living this right now and experiencing this with, uh, you know, with your parent. Uh, it is, is fascinating to me and absolutely powerful. And Richard, your incredible experience over the really man, like dude, the whole country, uh, in, in your advocacy as an ombudsman, my question is, you know, what is the real story, right?

What are you experiencing right now as a family member or an ombudsman with residential care and the COVID-19 deal?

Richard Danford: [00:09:32] Well, maybe I’ll go first. Cause I, I want to give the doctors as much time as they’d like to respond to this, but I think the important thing to realize, and that I hope that your listeners and viewers can get a sense of is the catastrophes that are occurring.

Uh, as a result of COVID-19 in the nursing home setting is certainly. Uh, unprecedented without a doubt, but a lot of the problems that are occurring, it’s just illuminating. Conditions and circumstances that preexisted the virus. Uh, the fact that nursing homes have never really been given the attention that they deserve or not just nursing homes, but the whole population of aging and disabilities as a country, we live in denial about it.

Getting older period, and we don’t want to talk about it and we don’t want to spend money on it. And we don’t want to develop programs that are appropriate for those people in that category. And, um, so what was going on in nursing homes was the problems predated COVID-19 COVID-19 is just like throwing gasoline on the fire.

No question about it.

Chris Gazdik: [00:10:41] Yeah. Let me highlight that. You just said that it is predated really. Yeah, the problems that we’re having now are just magnified and made louder, but this is all really kind of predating everything we’re dealing with now. Huh?

Richard Danford: [00:10:54] It absolutely is. And you can get into some of the details there, but to kind of set the stage.

I think there’s a, there’s a tendency for people to think that the virus itself and what’s occurred and the reactions to it, uh, define what we’re talking about. And it’s really just part of a much bigger subject.

Chris Gazdik: [00:11:13] Right ladies, ladies, what are you thinking, man? What’s the real story. And, and, and is it, uh, let me get clear too, cause I know you’re wanting to protect the identity.

A little bit of the facility and stuff is, is the location okay to say

Doctor A: [00:11:27] yes, we are in New York.

Chris Gazdik: [00:11:29] Yeah, man. I mean, that’s, you’re in the epicenter, right? I mean, that’s, what’s so powerful. Like, you know, this is really like right in the heart of where we’ve really gotten hit. What’s really going on. What’s the story.

Doctor A: [00:11:41] Well, we’re looking at a group of people who have been exposed to the Covid 19 yet, and it’s been unjust. And, and I think that what we’re looking at is genocide and extermination of a, if a demographic group. We’re looking at ageism, classism, neocolonialism. We’re looking at a range of isms and it’s unfortunate that our senior citizens have been, um, basically put into the Ash heaps and, um, a lot of these, uh, issues and the deaths.

Did not come from family members. It came from the staff, the staff, people who cross contaminated, they refused to let the family members in. And so what did you have? You had people’s loss of identity, abandonment isolation. Um, lack of safety and wellbeing and people were heartbroken. So in addition to a comorbidity and all of these other, uh, mental health issues and.

Um, and a bound on aboundment of dehydration and now malnutrition, some of the people refuse to eat, stop eating. So we began to see a range of issues that, uh, were imposed on a group, an innocent group. And this is a sad day sad, uh, era for nursing homes. Wow.

Chris Gazdik: [00:13:11] Yeah. That’s that’s, that’s pretty sobering.

That’s crazy.

Doctor A: [00:13:16] I think also you cannot repair the wounds of isolation and intentional involuntary seclusion that the residents were subjected to. Uh, once this started, uh, as, um, what we call the central visits or an active family. Oh, we went to see my mother 365 days a year, sometimes twice a day and sometimes three times a day because we constantly monitored, monitored her health or treatment and care.

And, uh, most of the time we went in there and we helped her with her dinner. We also were, um, giving her vitamins and giving her things to make sure that she stayed well. And. You know, she has not had those kinds of supplements since we stopped seeing her. And, and so we expected there to be a difference.

And I think after a total of 91 days, um, a lot of people in the nursing homes have been subjected to, um, the, the loneliness and the isolation. And the essential touch that close family members. Esential, family members have been able to provide to someone such as our mother. It’s been very, very difficult.

Uh, we, we talked about, uh, the faculty, the staff did not have a prophy PPE. And so, uh, we reached out to get the, um, elected officials to bring PPE into the nursing home and to different nursing homes in New York. Um, and some of the corporations did not want the faculty to even have the staff to wear the PPE.

So you wonder what is going on if the. If the corporation hasn’t given the, uh, the staff members PPE and where should they get the necessary equipment that they should wear so that they don’t contaminate themselves and they don’t contaminate the residents. Certainly the family members didn’t contaminate any of the residents because we weren’t allowed in.

Richard Danford: [00:15:39] Yeah. If I could, um, kind of add to the, uh, my, my initial comments about how. This response is kind of indicative to our whole approach to aging and definitely to longterm care, uh, deaths in nursing homes and in longterm care facilities that some States are over half of all the deaths in the States. Uh, nationally, I think it’s what at least 30%, if not more, maybe 40% of all the deaths and nevertheless, um, you look at it unless use new New York as an example, uh, once.

The virus was starting to spread. They did outrageous kinds of things. I mean, outrageous meaning extreme measures of bringing in the Navy shift from DC of taking over the Javits center and putting hundreds of beds in a building temporary beds in central park itself. For instance, doing a major daily. Uh, uh, press conferences talking about the impact in the hospitals and that sort of thing.

And during that same period of time, there was almost no attention being paid to the nursing homes. Uh, no PPE conversations. Uh, all they did was they eliminated a number of regulations that normally protect patient rights or resident rights. Uh, like, uh, they allowed for people to be transferred from one facility to the next, without even telling the family or the resident that that was going to happen.

They isolated people, they isolated people in their rooms against their will, which under any other circumstances requires. A whole set of clinical conditions and some of your mental health people probably know and observations that are enhanced, which didn’t occur. They couldn’t, uh, eat together. Uh, people that couldn’t feed themselves were being left isolated in their room.

And maybe not even enough staff anyway, I could go on and on and on about the kinds of problems, but the lack of any kind of direct response to do anything about what was happening in nursing homes, other than lock them down. Was appalling, in my opinion, it’s still appalling that the federal government finally came out like maybe two weeks ago with a plan to provide PPE to nursing homes.

And the plan was to provide two weeks of supply and to each nursing facility and deliver them by July 1st.

Chris Gazdik: [00:18:09] I’ll be honest with you guys. I’m sitting here and I’m just listening and I, and I would say. You know, in my therapy offices, um, you know, in sessions, I’ve definitely worked with, um, I’m working right now with an elderly person and, and I’ve definitely come across the elderly population issues, but I wouldn’t call it one of my strongest areas.

I am kind of. As people listening have found out I’m a talkative person. Anybody that knows me knows. I got a lot to say, you guys are, are, are, are talking about some of these things and I’m just going to be genuine with you and tell you my emotion. Like, um, Craig dude, like I’m kind of becoming a little bit speechless.

It’s I don’t let me check in with you. What’d you thinking? Cause that’s, I’m just kinda like, wow.

Craig Graves: [00:18:58] Yeah. Yeah. Same thing. You know, definitely a, uh, the elderly population is obviously most at risk from this thing. So it seems to me that more attention and planning would have been put into protecting that, protecting that segment of the population, especially in rest homes where.

You know, people are gathered together in close quarters.

Chris Gazdik: [00:19:21] I mean, seriously. Yeah, I know. And dr. B or dr. A when you were talking, I mean, you know, one of the things that made this show, Craig so powerful to me and realizing and thinking about this part of the epidemic, reality, I mean, you, you gotta think about this.

I mean, you know, we’re all. I mean, we’re all across the country. We’re all sitting here, like, you know, uh, sick of seeing our houses and, and, and, and what’s it called when you got cabin fever? All, I mean, can you, can you imagine being in a 40 by 40 foot room and not really being able to come out your room and people bringing meals to you?

Like that’s, is that how it really has been? It’s why I asked, like, what’s, what’s the real story here? Is that really what’s going on? Like, yo,

Richard Danford: [00:20:00] try a 10 by 10 room. Not a 40 by 40,

Chris Gazdik: [00:20:03] Hey please. At least a window, right?

Richard Danford: [00:20:06] Yeah. Yeah. Some have windows. Like I need to, I do need to get one more thing in, and then I’ll try not to dominate the conversation, but because I represent the ombudsman role and I’m the advocacy chair for the national association of local programs, um, ombudsmen, our role ongoingly is to investigate complaints from residents and family members to try to seek resolution to those complaints.

And those include everything from abuse and neglect. To care plan disputes to, uh, contesting, uh, transfers and discharge. Like I mentioned earlier, a whole array of different things that enhance the quality of the environment itself and protect people’s rights in their quality of care and the response from the federal government immediately when they lock down the facility.

What’s to categorize the role of the longterm care ombudsman as nonessential personnel. So where our job is to visit each facility on a regular basis and know what’s going on with the residents and know how to problem solve and make sure that nothing bad is occurring that was taken away instantly.

And, uh,

Chris Gazdik: [00:21:17] And Richard, was that across the country or is that in a certain location?

Richard Danford: [00:21:20] Nationally,

Chris Gazdik: [00:21:21] nationally? Yeah.

Richard Danford: [00:21:22] It didn’t matter if your facility had coronavirus in it, not in it, uh, et cetera. We were absolutely locked out. Yeah. Yeah. So I left that out, so,

Chris Gazdik: [00:21:36] yeah. Okay. Um, Like I said, man, this is, this is tripping me out a little bit.

Um, dr. B and dr. A for y’all, you know, as far as your story and stuff, as it’s going, and by the way, you have like real doctorate degrees, is that correct? To say that’s why you want to be called that.

Yeah. Right. So have you, I mean, what kind of context, you know, I think we’ve all seen pictures of, of windows and birthdays being celebrated, uh, you know, kind of situations and, you know, I know there’s, you know, there’s, there’s unique.

Um, Strategies like we’re doing zoom here. Right? Everybody knows what zoom is nowadays. We’ve got zoom and FaceTime and you know, this type of thing. What kind of contact and a connection have you been able to have with your mom?

Doctor A: [00:22:25] Well, you know, in early April, the ARP had urged the center for Medicare and Medicaid services to facilitate some kind of alternative or in person, but for non in person, um, visits, you know, emphasize in telecommunications, but it never happened.

And the nursing home kept. Uh, announcing, you know, to television and to the newspaper, to the media, that they would telecommunication effort in place. And in fact to this day is still not in place and it not for the seeing aid the kindness of the seeeing aid to allow us to have a telephone call with our mother or to do zoom or Skype or some kind of FaceTime, we would not have been able to, um, to see our mother.

However it has been because of the help of all of the politicians and, and our constant writing to people that we have been able to see our mother from a distance and just wave to her. And, um, and so the telecommunication piece is not in place yet. Um, uh, dr. B calls there every single day. And you can hardly get someone to answer the telephone at the reception area we have yet to receive one, one note, except for one note, um, we have not been able to find out the condition of the health and the treatment and the care of our parents.

And you see our mothers never worried about social isolation and loneliness because you were there every day to provide with conversation and socialization. And when we first saw her, she looked as if she had been given some psychotropic drugs. She couldn’t hold her head up and she couldn’t keep her eyes open.

And we asked the staff what was going on with her. And we believe that these people were being given some kind of sedation so that they wouldn’t cause any trouble or be of any trouble during the course of the day, because we understood that, um, that all of them were isolated there. All of their doors were closed.

And the only time that they had visitors were the staff members coming in and taking the temperature. The other piece.

Chris.

Chris Gazdik: [00:24:57] Yeah. Yeah. I’m here. I’m still kind of getting speechless, Craig and I just looked at each other like what? Yeah, go on.

Doctor A: [00:25:04] Yeah. Um, and part of it too, is that because it was a short staffing, New York really doesn’t have any regulations for that. So prior to the pandemic staffing and short staffing was always an issue.

And now we’re looking at people who were now left in their rooms. For example, if you had 50 people in a wing, that means that they were 50, maybe 50 rooms or 35 40 rooms that the, the certified nurses as a CNA me, um, were, had to attend that you can’t feed all of those people. The hour, sometimes the food would turn, would become cold.

And, and if they put the food in it and the, and the tray and the rules, the person might not have been able to lift the trail or even eat. So now you begin to see malnutrition occur. You begin to see dehydration occur, which was rampid before the pandemic. So you’ve started having all of these issues. You have, uh, doctors that are not maybe attending to the patients and the residents like they should.

And so, and of course, during the pandemic, the doctors have some fears about walking into a nursing home that has no PPE. It has no soap. No towels, no hazmat. So everyone is stressed out this whole issue as created what tension and trauma, fear, anger, anger, and everyone is upset. And then we still have, in terms of the medical doctors, we’re still dealing with their own, um, paternalism in terms of how to treat.

patients that’s a major issue also.

Chris Gazdik: [00:26:55] Yeah. You know, I’m just sitting here thinking and I’m like, you know, and maybe Richard, this is a question for you, but you know, for the, for you to doctors, right? Like what about medical power of attorney? I mean, if I’m sitting there and I’m just thinking about this, like I’m medical power of attorney for my mom, right?

Like, Hey, I’m wanting my information. Like tell me what’s going on. How does that work?

Richard Danford: [00:27:17] Oh, you can’t get in the building either. Uh, and you might get an answer on the telephone. If you try to reach somebody, you might not, uh, you’re in the same category as the rest of us. Um, you might have legal standings try to do something about it, but this is a captive population that basically is just being attended to, depending on what.

Conditions there are in the nursing home. So your legal standing as a, as a power of attorney is no different. I mean, you could still do financial stuff depending on what kind of power of attorney that you you have. But, um, uh, you know, I w I, I thought of the quote that I won’t state who made it, but early on in the pandemic, I think it was set at the highest possible level that never should the solution be worse than the problem.

And without a quote, without question, without a doubt in a nursing home, their response, or their attempt to create a solution for hundreds of thousands of nursing home residents, there’s over a million and a half residents in the United States of America nursing homes. And the majority of them do not have the virus.

And for all of those people. The solution that they’re seeking by the lockdown, in the lack of available resources and the lack of any services is creating a problem much worse for hundreds of thousands of residents than the virus itself, the same lockdown that we’re talking about and the denial of visitation and et cetera, et cetera, uh, exists in any facility, regardless of whether they have COVID or not.

Um, you could have zero infections, zero staff, positive, all of that. It’s it’s, it’s affecting every single nursing home resident in the entire United States of America,

Doctor A: [00:29:04] Richard and Chris. One of the things that, the question that arises be with all of this is all the residents in the nursing home. Do they become property of the nursing home facility?

Because they don’t want the family members to comment about the kind of services or doctoral services or medical services. They certainly are not telling you about the treatment that your loved one is receiving. They’re not saying anything, they’re not giving a weekly assessment. They’re not saying how, you know, what treatment or would care.

Is the, is the resident losing weight is a resident gaining weight. Is it necessary for the resident to go into the hospital? And there were, the issue was also that so many people were dying in the nursing home and the nursing home administrators were not calling up the residents, family members to even let them know.

So you began to hear about, you know, some people said it was maybe 10 bodies in a nursing home and come to find out there was 40 bodies in the nursing home. One, one nursing home said they were 19. They found out it was almost 100 bodies in the nursing home. So here you begin to find out that there’s so many unscrupulous things going on in the nursing home.

And at what point. Is the family members, uh, uh, the residents, family members contacted. And what kind of home does the nursing home have on those residents? It’s like, they are, they become property of the nursing home facility.

No, I was just going to say that there is, um, even out of 1947, the Nuremberg crisis say that, um, we’re supposed to have informed consent of the human subject is essential. Now as a, I am a proxy, I’m the proxy for my mom now and beyond the, uh, the, the health proxy. I, you know, I, I filled out the old, um, prophecy papers would go from a to Q and my mom had to initial each and every one.

And it’s basically, you have power of attorney for the living will. And the nursing home does not even at here to that or respect that for the most part. So we were not covered by a universal law. We see collusion by the government, by the doctors by big pharma. And we see that, um, public access to some of the things that the pharmaceuticals that the drugs are high and, uh, it’s, it becomes a real issue and a real concern as to what are your beloved getting?

What kind of treatment are they getting? And the other side of it is that. Oh, what are they eating? Are they eating and eating a nutritional meal? And very often they’re not, they’re not getting sunlight. They’re not getting the ambulation that they need. Everyone needs exercise, even if you want to, uh, not only essentially to butter respirator, everyone needs sunshine.

Everybody needs to get air and rehabilitation. Ambulation exercise. And there’s all kinds of excuses that could be given to the families, especially if they don’t know. And they’re beloved, basically a dying on the vine. It’s tragic. It’s

Chris Gazdik: [00:32:44] it’s, it’s beyond tragic as way I’m feeling it. Richard is, this is this now you guys, you ladies are in, you know, New York city epicenter, right?

I mean, is this what Richard, would you say kind of characterization with the bodies and the deaths and that type of thing across our country? Or is this possibly because it’s being hit so hard in New York. Do you have a sense of that?

Richard Danford: [00:33:07] Yeah. Uh, yeah, we we’ve been having weekly calls with all of the different ombudsman programs in each region of the country.

And so I’ve been hearing. Horror story after horror story after horror story. Um, fortunately, uh, the devastation that New York city has experienced, hasn’t been duplicated around the country, but the death rates have been, as I mentioned before, in some States the death rate. Uh, for the entire state over half of it is for people in nursing homes.

But, uh, so basically what you’re hearing to different degrees is universal. Um, you know, people being subjected to conditions that are just. Humanely unacceptable.

Chris Gazdik: [00:33:54] And it, and is that, and is it fair to say, you know, that that’s not even, I mean, it’s not even COVID deaths. I mean, that’s, that’s, you know, can we say that that’s like, COVID fear reaction related deaths?

Richard Danford: [00:34:08] Well, it’s interesting you bring that up. Uh, you know, they’re trying to get all the data and the statistics and they’re doing all the research, but in my opinion, you’ve touched on. Uh, one of the most fundamental problems that exist today and certainly fits in with your viewership and, uh, the roles of mental health and therapy people.

And that is the, the, uh, the detrimental impact that it’s having on people, mental and emotional status on a day to day basis, um, is, is something that’s not being measured. And we’re beginning to hear, uh, some of the programs around the country have actually heard. From a clinicians themselves about noticing the obvious, um, deterioration in people’s overall condition and health.

And you have to wonder how many people have died, um, who were vulnerable to begin with, who needed certain kinds of supports to, uh, Maintain any quality of life when those were removed, what was the impact on people and what has it been and what will it continue to be? Um, you know, they’re going to start opening up, quote, unquote nursing homes.

As we speak, but it’s going to be done in phase one, phase two and phase three phase one ombudsmen are still going to be cataract categorized as nonessential, but eventually when we’re able to begin to go back into the facilities and for your viewers, this is why we reached out to Chris in the first place.

We have no idea what we’re walking into a imagine for anybody subjected to that, and then take someone who has a level of dementia. Alzheimer’s disease may not even begin to understand at all what’s happened or why it’s happened. Um, what kind of conditions did they develop over a long period of time?

How can we be instrumental in trying to hopefully bring about some kind of positive resolution for those kinds of people? And on top of that, the impact that it’s having on ombudsmen period, we have a lot of folks, uh, on most seniors themselves, and they’re afraid to go into the facilities. Um, so, uh, it’s a really difficult situation, but it’s definitely nationwide maybe to different degrees in New York city clearly has been the epicenter.

Chris Gazdik: [00:36:26] Yeah, it’s a buzzsaw. I mean, I’m just, I’m just sitting here thinking, you know, the psychological realities here. I mean, you know, my, my, my brain’s buzzing, you know, you, you got, uh, uh, uh, the, the lack of the lack of sleep will cause someone to become psychotic. That’s why it’s, it’s a form of, of literally of torture techniques, you know, torture techniques also psychologically involved.

Uh, you know, isolation, you think of solitary confinement, that’s specifically designed to break people down. You know, the, the, the lack of sunlight, dr. Amy, I think you, you had mentioned, you know, I mean, that’s, again, that’s, that’s purposely used to break, you know, to break people down and do to, to break down on the basic fabrics of your psychological, not even health, I’m going to be clear.

From my clinical brain in the psychological field, your psychological ability to function, we’re not even talking about quality of life and mental health. We usually talk on the show. We’re talking about psychological survival, really?

Richard Danford: [00:37:25] Correct? No doubt about it.

Doctor A: [00:37:30] One of the things that, um, that we have been looking at is that. When you’ve given so much love and so much protection and the business feels safe and the knowledge and awareness that they have been loved. Can you imagine having all of that pulled away from you and, and so that it no longer exists?

So what happened? You weren’t fearful and now you’re fearful you have yourself, your sense of self worth diminishes, because you don’t know who’s around you. You don’t know who’s coming in to watch you. You know, folks say, well, why don’t you take your mother out or put her someplace else? Where can we put her?

Chris Gazdik: [00:38:09] Yeah, I was going to go there because that is something people are going to say, well, Hey, why don’t we just take them out of here? Bring them home. Do you know, can you speak to that? What’s the reality there.

Doctor A: [00:38:18] The reality is that if she were in that condition, she would be home in the first place. And so people are not thinking about that.

And the first day that just your aid doesn’t come in and the first time that you have to, uh, clean up deprecation or urination out of the bed and then try to shower, um, that, uh, your loved one now all hell breaks loose. Because you can feed a person, you can dress them, but that showering and bathing and taking care of their personal needs, that’s a biggie for any one person.

Chris Gazdik: [00:38:57] Yeah,, um, yeah go ahead I am sorry

Doctor A: [00:39:00] But the family’s intervention sees the three prongs situation. You have the facility, you have the administration and the social workers and the. Directors and dietary and nursing and your, and your, even your security, but you also have your family and your family is the integral part that keeps it all together.

It’s a three prong situation, and we have to understand that. And what happens is that the family keeps a check because these people are not doing that kind of checking. First of all, there’s a sense of unpreparedness, lack of proactive thinking. And then you have emergency, which is what has been the case.

For all of this disease and condition now, not only are we dealing with the the viral thing, they make, we’re dealing with a racial pandemic. There’s so many things that are going on right now. And so people are stressed out in trauma and that’s everyone, because what we saw in 2019 is radically different from what it is right now.

So we’re not looking at the age quake, the, the whole sense of the aging population  getting larger. And everyone knows that. And what happens is that once you knock out a demographics, you knock out collective knowledge and we, we have lost thousands of essential people for what. This was, I’m telling you this was genocide.

This was an extermination, and this was all unacceptable. This is mismanagement, MIS leadership, miseducation, and misalignment. And, and, and this is just horrendous and someone, and I’m wondering where the lawyer as well, I’m trying to figure out are they dead? These are unlawful deaths, illegal deaths. Would you bring someone sickly into your home?

No knowing what the pandemic is. This is all unconscionable and inhumane. This has been a horrible again. And the genocide. What is genocide? Genocide is a crime against humanity. And that’s what this has been.

Chris Gazdik: [00:41:16] So I’m curious, ladies, have you been able to, you know, part of what I understand about mental health and there’s a whole, uh, Therapy theory, you know, called constructivist theory.

And it’s about, you know, being able to tell your story and stories are really important in healing and recovering and managing all of this. Have you, I don’t even know how to ask what I’m trying to ask. Have you been able to tell your story, like I hear it in your voice and I hear you talking about these, these, uh, These atrocities and events and the realities that we’re facing.

Have you been able to tell your story other than to each other, like to family or to neighbors? You know, like how, how have, how have you been able to get the word out? Have you tried? And what’s that look like?

Doctor A: [00:42:03] We’ve had the word out and we’ve been in media and, um, my sister and I have a kind of spearheaded.

Interesting in the stories about, um, the lack of communication venues available for the residents and the deaths. Um, even this whole piece of, uh, The how the funeral directors have to interface with the, uh, the nursing home. They’re just a lot of issues that no one is going to touch on because it’s, it’s, it’s not only is it touching hot, but yeah, there are hot topics.

I mean the price gouging and the cost of trying to get a grave. The fact that only 10 members of the family can come to the funeral. If there is one, and then it has to be a virtual reality, then that’s a month. And if you get, if you, if your body goes to a cemetery, that’s another three weeks before it’s even buried.

So it’s on and on. So are we telling our story? We’re telling you our stories. Yeah. And, and we have gotten now story out, um, through the media. And, um, and on the radio and certainly our friends who are journalists, you know, have been interested in the story and they’ve taken time to hear about this, about what we’re going through, but it’s not just us.

It’s a, it’s a major piece. And they found out that a lot of other people are going through the same exact thing that we are. And it’s nationwide.

Chris Gazdik: [00:43:39] Yeah. You know, it touches my heart. When you speak of dr. B, I think that was right. That is ladies. That is hard to tell. I’m not going to lie to you. Like, like I was afraid.

Um, you know, recently my sister just died and we did an episode in honor of my sister talking about, uh, if you want to check it out on this show, it’s a Chris’ personal story is what I think we titled it. Um, and that that’s okay. And thank you for that. But I mean, it, one of the things that, you know, really we talked about is the, you know, the complicated nature of dying, right?

Like it under normal situations, you know, I chronicled the. The first time in my life, I’m sitting down with my mom and my wife and my stepdad. And we’re like having these crazy conversations. Like you’re not prepared for that. You’re not ready to have the conversations about, you know, well, how much money do we spend on this?

And what coffin do you get and where do you, you know, do you, do you do cremation and how, how do you get this lined up for. For a, you know, a viewing and, and what do you do with the invitations? Do you do invitations? Is it an invitation? What do you do?

Is it, you are not

prepared as my point to deal with under normal circumstances, right?

Like the bombardment of emotional issues that literally happened within hours or minutes, really? Yeah, actually minutes by the time I found her and we were at her apartment, you’re now faced with this. I can’t imagine that honestly, in the, in the face of like, you know, Oh, wait a minute, by the way, you can only have 10 people.

They’re like, what… well,

Richard Danford: [00:45:04] if I could add kind of to, uh, sorry if I’m interrupting one of the doctors, but, uh, I think it’s important to mention that, um, when you talk about telling your story, Um, this is a story we all need to tell. This is a story that we, as a culture and a community need to tell. And my fear is this been in the headlines it’s been, you know, talked about nationally all around the context of COVID-19 and my biggest fear.

Is that when things start to settle down around us, people are going to be operating from the horrible misperception that things can just go back to the way they were. They can never go back to the way they were. And we, as a culture need to say never again. And it’s gonna take, uh, people standing up and, and telling their story and coming together as a community.

And organizing and doing all of those basic things that we do to bring about other changes in our culture and our society, but it needs to be around this subject. And it’s gonna take a lot. You mentioned, you know, where are the attorneys? I think dr. B said. Just to give you an example of how the industry itself is attempting to try to prepare for a moving forward, the industry itself, for sure.

In the state of New York and California. And I think in 23 other States, they’ve convinced the governors of those States to grant immunity. For any harm that occurs to a resident during the implementation of COVID-19 response? Um,

Chris Gazdik: [00:46:44] well pause right there. Hold on. Repeat that again?

Richard Danford: [00:46:48] Yeah, yeah, yeah. A number of States.

And now they’re there. They’re trying to introduce legislation federally to grant immunity. To nursing home and longterm care facility owners and providers against any harm that occurred during implementation of the COVID-19 response. And that is absolutely. I’m glad to see you shaking your head,

Chris Gazdik: [00:47:11] man.

Yeah. I’m shaking my

Richard Danford: [00:47:12] body. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Craig Graves: [00:47:16] Has it already been done in some cases, Richard?

Richard Danford: [00:47:18] Oh yeah, absolutely. It has. Yeah. New York has granted it. Uh, it’s been granted at the state level, California, surprisingly. Uh, has it, uh, last I heard, I think there’s 23 States that have, have granted some level, uh, Of immunity to providers for harm that occurs during the COVID-19 response.

Craig Graves: [00:47:40] How’s that even possible? I mean, somebody needs to be held accountable. I think that’s one of the problems with our country is people get let off the hook. And this is certainly a situation where that shouldn’t happen.

Chris Gazdik: [00:47:50] I second that 

Doctor A: [00:47:52] one of the things, one of the political things is going on is that the nursing homes are corporations.

And we have to remember that the corporations have been providing. Uh, the elected officials, you know, uh, they’ve been banking, they’ve been providing, you know, uh, coffees for their, their, um, their bank accounts, you know, and for their, um, election campaigns and everything. So what happens is there’s a pay off here.

Chris Gazdik: [00:48:20] Oh, it’s big business.

Richard Danford: [00:48:23] I think it’s also a combination of, uh, A misunderstanding or misperception of, of what the virus is actually done and caused, uh, with just kind of this automatic sense that. They can grant license, not can grant license, same thing. When they removed all the regulations pertaining to nursing homes, they felt like that was justified because of the fear conducted to the virus.

And the same kind of mindset applies here that the argument by the facility operators is we can’t be held responsible for something that we have no control over. That is at this magnitude that is causing this level of disruption and death. And so it makes sense to grant us immunity and the policy makers, because they don’t understand the full context of what is happening are granting that kind of immunity.

It’s based on a fundamental level of ignorance by policy makers and elected officials as to what really goes on in longterm care. And when I say we as a community, need to come together and tell our story, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Because policy makers that understand the true reality of what’s happening in longterm care facilities would be shaking their head, just like you and I are.

When they’re talking about granting blanket immune,

Doctor A: [00:49:50] um, they not only, we have to look at the department of health and the department of health has been complicite. And making rules that are not good. And, and this is what we’ve seen from the department of health, health. It’s been gross neglect, and one, not the test. And even from the, the corporate, the corporatocracy, they have not allowed the staff to be tested.

And there are a lot of things. The owners of the nursing homes also complicit the administrators, the department of the directors of nursing and especially department of health. And the department of health has a very bad habit. You send them a concern and they will tell you it was unsubstantiated, partly comes from the fact that they didn’t do things in a timely fashion.

And they also didn’t use science. Experts science. They came up with, they let someone make some decisions and it was a proliferation of ignorance. And it’s unfortunate that all of these people have to die. And it’s very possible because of the immunity measures that will be extended to the nursing home, uh, corporates.

They’re going to get away with murder and I still contend genocide extermination of a most valuable demographic group.

Chris Gazdik: [00:51:15] You know, since the beginning of this pandemic in the realities that we face and I’ve been calling for three simple. Reality is one. We need prudent decisions to a calm attitude, so that fear and shame aren’t driving the ship and then three awareness so that we’re not allowing ignorance or avoidance to, you know, drive us away from the prudent decisions and such that we need.

And I’ll tell you what guys, I mean, the fear. Based reality that I’m seeing in some of these policies and some of the behaviors and some of the decisions is profound. The shame-based reality that I see in the way that nursing home care facilities are being operated, you know, to save their name or their namesake, the avoidance that is profoundly, uh, inaction, um, and is just, it’s all, you know, it’s all astounding.

I mean, we’re not making prudent decisions here, Craig, you had a thought that you, I don’t want to lose.

Craig Graves: [00:52:08] Well, I was just going to say about the story. I don’t think that the holistic story is out there because you know, on the news I’ve heard. You know, I knew that nursing homes were hotbeds and that, you know, I think I heard today 48% of the deaths in New York had been, uh, had been in nursing homes.

And I, and I did hear about a nursing home who had a large number of bodies, but the holistic story, you know, thinking about the doctor’s mother there by herself and then not having access to her and. Locked up in this small room and potentially drugged and no exercise. And, and, uh, and it being a nationwide problem, you know, when COVID first started that rest home in Washington was hit really hard.

And that was like the big thing at the time. And then again, that’s the situation in New York, but you don’t hear about the overall things like I’m talking about. And when you do hear something, it’s a little, it’s a sound bite, you know, it’s not the, it’s not the overall story. So hearing you guys talk has really enlightened me.

And made me, made me angry too, you know? Uh, and that’s the story that people need to need to hear the whole, the whole thing,

Richard Danford: [00:53:18] the other part of it, not to interrupt, but I really appreciate you saying that. And, but the other part of the story that needs to also be mentioned is that the CNS and the staff working in these facilities, they’re frontline workers as well.

They are literally putting their lives on the line. Just like people in the hospitals are except they aren’t being provided with PPE. They aren’t being given the tools that they need to do their job. And yet they’re showing up for work every day. And most of them are working for minimum wage. A lot of them are there’s good hearted people that are out there busting their tails to try to make a difference.

And we need to acknowledge that. Uh, uh, before we would ever end our discussion tonight, for sure.

Chris Gazdik: [00:54:03] Richard, I’m glad you, I’m glad you said that because there’s always, there’s always multiple angles to things, right. And if you look deep and you look with an open mind and an open eyes, you’re, you’re you’re right, because these, these, these folks are, are working and they’ve gotta be overrun, overwhelmed.

I mean, The mental trauma of, of seeing the bodies and seeing the isolation and knowing, I mean, the sheer power of helplessness to make an impact into people that, you know, I mean, these workers see these people every day and, and, and they deal with the grief and the loss as well. Um, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of a nightmare all around.

Richard Danford: [00:54:43] Yeah, it is. And we, we definitely need to be all coming together. And all supporting each other from the staff to the advocates, to the family members, to those people that are dealing with this on a daily basis. And we all need to be coming together to make a difference. And that in the world of advocacy that I was in hasn’t, hasn’t it always been the case?

A lot of times we’re investigating, uh, wrongdoings by facilities or abuse or neglect or whatever. And it puts us on that. On a different plane with our relationship with the providers, but in this type of a situation, the advocates, the nursing staff, the CNAs, the family members, the community all need to be coming together.

Cause that’s what it’s going to take to make a difference. Right?

Doctor A: [00:55:33] One thing, you know, there are a lot of people who are on dialysis and even the people on dialysis or being tested for antibodies, unbeknownst to them. And, um, the people the people, as I said before, I entitled to be informed. So there’s a lot of things that are going on.

And then with, um, with people not knowing what is happening to them or what this objective to Institute. You know. And so now the, the, um, as I’ve found out yesterday, the, um, staff members are now being tested according to New York state law. They are being tested twice a week. And I understand, so it person that they’ve been subjected to the very painful, no swab.

And, um, we understand that if people are taking a oxygen therapy or have a dry nose, you know, they have nasal issues that it could cause them to bleed or whatever. So there’s just there. So the staff members are now being tested and it’s, it’s not an unpainful piece. And they don’t like, they don’t like, um, uh, being tested and now the residents are being tested, but we have said.

That our parent is not to be tested under any circumstance.

Chris Gazdik: [00:56:57] Okay.

Craig Graves: [00:56:59] Are you able to see her now

Doctor A: [00:57:02] from a distance? It’s the wave, just a wave. And we had a lot of troubles with that. They gave us nothing but grief and anger about that.

Craig Graves: [00:57:14] My heart goes out to you. It does. I can’t imagine how that must be.

Chris Gazdik: [00:57:19] Cause, yeah, you’re going from daily contact and regular routine live in life together to, to that

Craig Graves: [00:57:27] who’s accountable. Is it a, is it a state thing? Is it a federal thing? If the lawyers showed up, who would they Sue or who would they,

Chris Gazdik: [00:57:35] Greg’s going to be their doctor be here in about 15 hours.

Richard Danford: [00:57:40] Yeah. I don’t know if we have enough time for that conversation. Uh, again, the problems are so deep rooted. Uh, definitely the state, definitely the federal government. Um, but part of the problem begins with, um, the lack of oversight of the facilities in the first place, both at the federal level and at the state level.

A good example is that they statistics, they did infection control surveys in nursing homes prior to the pandemic. And. Boy, everybody just got great reports. Everything was all good. Uh, they ordered a hundred last. I heard that from the Medicare rights center, I think there was 170 nursing homes that were tested mandatory after the virus broke out 170 and less than like six tenths of 1% of all those surveys found any kind of, uh, serious harm.

And the rest of the surveys were like, Oh, everything’s all good. So, uh, you know, we’ve made numerous complaints over the years as ombudsmen. We’ve pushed stuff up the ladder for trying to get in forcement. About staffing regulations about resident quality of care around overmedication of people, of use of psychotropic drugs.

Uh, you know, I mean, there’s a long list of, of just to have been habitual perpetual problems in the longterm care communities and nothing has been done about it. So who’s vulnerable from a liability standpoint. Lots of people, in my opinion, I think that the, that the legal profession could really, um, but again, you have these immunity provisions, you have courts that make it difficult for anybody to Sue.

You have corporate structure. Of the facilities in such a way so that you can’t really Sue the people that are really responsible. Again, that’s a whole nother conversation we could go into maybe on another show.

Chris Gazdik: [00:59:40] Yeah.

Richard Danford: [00:59:41] Yeah. So a lot of people, all of us are responsible. All of us are for allowing it to get to this point.

And that’s why we’re equally responsible for coming together to try to prevent it going forward.

Chris Gazdik: [00:59:54] Gotcha. You know, it’s, it’s funny, man. Uh, our, our show will be heard, you know, over the nation and, you know, different States have different things. I mean, it’s, uh, you know, in our state we have called ABC stores.

Uh, what is it? Alcohol beverage control something. I don’t even know what it stands for, but they’re liquor stores. Right? Mr. Graves, could you believe that the, the liquor store clerks are essential workers in ombudsman’s. Are not.

Craig Graves: [01:00:17] Yeah. I mean, really nothing amazes me anymore. Nothing amazes me anymore,

Chris Gazdik: [01:00:24] guys. How do we develop hope? Um, w w we need to taxi in here to, uh, ha ha you know, I was, I was, I was kind of saying, you know what I mean? You know, let’s, let’s get you guys together and hug your mom and hang out and get a cupcake and Jesus, you know, like how can we develop hope and, and move forward. Kind of to get to the other side of this thing, you know?

Doctor A: [01:00:52] Well, it appears that for the moment, hope is on hold until we are able to perhaps even touch our mother. You know, I mean, she hears us through the telephone that we continue to say, we love you. We miss you. And she said, I know, I understand, but. She really does not understand the depth of all of this, you know, as we understand it.

And, uh, we, we, uh, saddened, um, we’re also a little bit enraged about this abandonment that has been, um, uh, so prevalent in these nursing homes and really the nursing home is supposed to be for suposed to the care. It’s not supposed to be your death bed. Basically, this is what it’s been as well as the nursing homes that have kept so many bodies in the nursing home.

And the smell of death has waffled through the vents. Uh, of the, uh, the facility and it’s, uh, it’s a sad blow out. Mother is a, is a tough cookie. And, uh, you know, we, we are children and discipline of hope, you know, but we just keep praying that, um, she will survive this. We know that she’s already taken a hit, she’s lost about 15 pounds.

Uh, but she’s still cogent and she is still aware of her environment. And she still recognizes us. Like we said, we don’t know how long, because this has already been 90 days. And, uh, before we were told that there was going to be a pause and a lockdown, we were able to see her. And we said, mom, we don’t know when we’re going to see you again.

We touched her, we hugged her. We told her that we loved her. And she said, I understand, but nobody understood at that point. And we still don’t understand because no one as I guess, except for Alvarez, Huxley and George Orwell had a clue about how this was going to turn out. Whoever thought that in our life.

We would live such a life right now, our own isolation, our own solitary consignment, uh, this protestation that’s going on. And, and, and all of this is cataclysmic, you know, the deaths and the police brutality and, and the poor judgment on our only takes one good leader to make a good decision, you know, and it seems like people are kind of fuzzy at this time. They are not making good decisions.

Chris Gazdik: [01:03:34] Fuzzy is definitely at word that’s for sure. You know what I’m gonna, I’m gonna, I’m gonna ask you. I wanna, I wanna hear about the tough cookieness, if that’s a word of your, of your mom, and I’m going to tell you, I’m a proud West Virginia. And so I’m thinking of my, my grandma. Who’s not with us. She was a, I want to honor her.

She was, she was an awesome lady that, that, uh, came over the, came over the pond from Austria. And I’m pretty sure I can fairly call her a first generation. She was, she was a strong West Virginia woman, and I had to see if she was short and stature, but, but, uh, her, she was, she was a tough lady, man. Tell me about the tough cookie cookieness of your mama.

Doctor A: [01:04:12] What’d you talk about your grandmother.

And, and, and what happens is that these folks had a sense of God and humanity and, and working together with people. And it appears that, again, as I said earlier, this pandemic has taken the face of humanity away is no, there is just no justification. For the way that people have been treated. And I keep on saying that I’ve matter of fact, I was doing some work called elder disposability and invisible genocide.

I have to change my papers cause cause the elder disposability, a visible genocide. And, um, it’s, it’s very painful to see all of the areas that the, the seniors are being removed. This was unconscionable, amoral, immoral, inhumane, and, and there’s nothing we can do about this because all of our, our brothers and sisters have gone, but your, your grandmother, not my mother and our mother have came out of an era, but it was powerful people.

And they believed in helping one another and respect and regard. What we’re looking at now is mismanagement misleadership and we can’t get this straightened out. We have a president who believes in violence and, and he’s created a system, a parent system. People can’t hide behind it anymore of where people don’t have any respect and regard for one another.

This is not. A television show, but that’s what it looks like, you know? And he has his biggest audience ever in life. So we thankful for our mother and your grandmother, because they led the way they gave us a value system and expectation some high expectations, which sometimes which we don’t see these days.

So it’s very difficult

Chris Gazdik: [01:06:18] I hear you, I hear you.

Richard, why don’t you give us a summary and I want to kind of, um, we need to actually in here for sure. What do you, uh, what do you want people to hear and know, and then I’ll go to, um, to you ladies kind of as well.

Richard Danford: [01:06:35] Oh, I, I, I appreciate you doing this show. And I think the most important thing is just to get the word out there from, uh, from those who are directly impacted by what’s going on out there and help people to understand.

But I also wanted to come at, you ask about where do we find the hope? And I have had the benefit from talking with programs all around the country, that there are examples of people finding hope. Uh, a number of communities have held neighborhood parades for people in nursing homes and they big signs and they do everything that they can to just continue giving them the message that there is hope and you are loved, and we do care about you and we haven’t forgotten you.

And there’s a lot of creative ways for people to continue to do that. I’ve also heard stories about, uh, nursing homes, uh, building special visitation. Uh, shelters out on the property and allowing people to go outside and to visit what their loved. It varies from state to state because how restrictive one state might be, might be different than another you’re are ways to find hope.

And, uh, also I have to touch on what, uh, dr. B just said about finding leadership. There has to be a community that comes together around this subject. And we need to have some champions and we need to have some champions at the, in the right places. Uh, elected officials, uh, public safety people, law enforcement, uh, you name it.

We need champions from all those different walks of life to step forward and come together and try to. Solutions as a community. Uh, cause we, we can’t, we can’t go through this again and we need to make sure that we don’t. So thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. And you guys got a great show.

Chris Gazdik: [01:08:39] Thank you. Thank you, dr. B, dr. A, uh, what would you, what’s the last thoughts that you would like to have people hear?

Doctor A: [01:08:49] Well, I’m concerned. The nursing home industry can get some of these, these, uh, pull regulations, uh, regulated in favor of the residents. The residents shouldn’t have to come up to the, to the level of the nursing home.

The nursing home should take care of the, the, the issues and needs of the residents. And I think the legislators. Either they are going to do the right thing and change the laws and make laws that will help the residents in nursing homes, or they just need to get out. And we need to let some new officials in, because this has a lot to do with, um, legislature that, um, the nursing home has been able to, um, glide by and really not pay attention.

You know, and then I think that that’s one of the issues that is other one other thing too. Um, my sister and I had been at very adamant about the seniors being able to vote. And so right now, uh, we have moved facing these mailings ballets, uh, but we make sure that when the people came in, because there was a time that the nursing homes weren’t even having.

These people from the, you know, the election booth departments to come in and make sure that the seniors were voting. Um, my sister and I had to get on the, uh, uh, legislators and the elected officials to do something about it. So now this is very important. This particular election. What’s going to happen.

Are these people going to allow people to come in and let’s see, um, residents vote? Are they going to allow the residents to sign the papers because they weren’t doing it on their own. So it’s a big problem. And the number of people who are still left in the nursing home, what are they gonna do about this voting situation?

Because again, this is their right to vote.

Chris Gazdik: [01:10:49] Listen my vote would be their vote counts for three votes.

Doctor A: [01:10:55] And I think the last thing that we could possibly say is that, uh, we have to deal with this whole sense of ageism and, and respect in regard to be given to seniors. Uh, we need to have more gerontologists, more service providers, um, business representatives, community and church leaders. To develop Paul and, and, and just some astute people to, to develop policies, to prepare for this expanding age phenomenon.

And we should be perceived as enlightened and creative and worthy and not decrepid and senile and confused. And that’s how we stereotype. And this is unfortunate. So we cannot, we’re not worthless. We’re not useless. We’re not sad and angry. But some of these situations that have been created have fostered, um, this stereotypic and ugly idea and.

Ageism is quite serious. I understand 67% of the people are affected by ageism, and we have to do something about that. Just like we need to handle racism and colonial colonialism, classism, ageism, sexism. We have to attend to our elders. Thank you. And we appreciate your allowing us to speak. On this forum and thank you so very much, Chris.

Chris Gazdik: [01:12:23] No, absolutely. It’s it is. It is way beyond our honor. Listen, I started a tradition on this show because I think when people are sharing, it’s important to recognize the courage that it takes to do such a thing, man. So when people are alive with us, so we do a high five. So I’m going to count us down to three here in a second.

I’m going to say one, two, and then on three, I’d like to ask all. All of us to clap signifying a high five and the courage that it takes to do this. Cause I’ll tell ya, you know, it really is. It’s a big deal. Um, I’m honored to have you guys on our show to be speaking. So, so powerfully and passionately about, you know, Craig likes to talk about the greatest generation in our, in our nation and, and, and these, these people that we’re speaking about.

Uh, deserve the utmost respect and, and, and power to, to what to what’s going on. Um, it’s, it’s been, it’s been very enlightening and I think, honestly, ladies and mr. Uh, mr. Danford, for one of our better shows and so far as the power of the emotion here. So, uh, let’s, let’s do a little high five a clap if you will.

When I count to three, one, two, three. All right, man. Good deal. Good deal, mr. Graves, I’m gonna, you know what, I’m going to give you the last word, take us out of here cause I’m still kind of speechless brother.

Craig Graves: [01:13:42] I’m not sure what I can add, man. I’m not sure where I can add through it. Therapist I’s dot com.

Folks, you can find out more about Chris and I on our show. We have individual entries for each podcast. You can also find this on just about any, any podcast platform and on YouTube. Um, be sure to follow us on social media and what’s next, Chris,

Chris Gazdik: [01:14:00] I’ll tell you what listening audience, if you ever shared one of our shows, I want you to share this.

When you pop that little arrow and you send it to your friends, you send it to your aunts, your uncles, your cousins, your brothers, your sisters, your everybody, man. Get this stuff out. All right. This is one’s important one. We love you guys and we’ll see you all next week.